Honestly always felt like Atlantis' core problem was how it never really felt like it had a good arc after that first season. First season starts and ends so strongly because you know what the stakes are, the Wraith wanting to get to Atlantis (who are cut off from Earth) so they can get to Earth. After that it just felt like "well the Wraith are around and we battle them but heyho". Michael and the Asurans were clearly both stopgaps to fill the void (with the former seeing the same concepts repeated over and over while the latter was axed within a season) but it never really glued together.
As someone who has met Jason Momoa a few times and was lucky enough to have spent time in his company while he was on Atlantis, I can tell you that a lot of Ronon's character is straight from Jason's own. His sense of humor, how physical he is, that's all Jason, lol. As an example I will tell you an anecdote from a Stargate Atlantis convention I worked at in the UK. I was security for Joe at the time and we were walking through the main hall outside the Green Room when the nearby toilet door opens and Jason appears. Upon seeing Joe he grins and then charges me and Joe, slamming us both to the ground, him on top as he hugs Joe. Then laughing he leaps up, grabs Joe's and my hands and drags us to our feet. Patting us down, he grins and walks off. When I asked Joe if that was how Jason normally behaved the man looked at me with tired eyes and said 'Yeah ... all the time', LOL :D
Inreresting but makws sense if it fits on the show. And jason mamoa seems awesome and lovely. Dude even adopted wolves. And how he on a talkshow is a dork lol
Though I love Star Trek series and Battlestar Galactica it's only Stargate SG-1 & Atlantis that has that red thread of continuity of progress no other show have. Humanity goes from MP5's to Intergalactic Battlecruisers.
I still think Stargate Atlantis had at least 1-2 more good seasons in it. There were so many storylines left open and needed exploring. The fact that Aiden Ford wasn’t brought back is just a shame.
Yeah, its really sad, and woolsy really carried a lot ther alone and there easyy could be other things to fight. plus wraith still exist, and the traveller, i mean the traveller ship folk and allies and the alliance that existed that didnt like them or was odd on them that existed is really interesting. Its really interesting that the y mess up stuff too and are sideyed by an alliance in that universe that isnt known. And they are foreigner. Which also is way more aware to not be the saviours but more complicated.
My biggest issue is that the ending was "We took Atlantis to Earth". Atlantis felt like a home in a different universe - it made a great way to separate the two chunks of the series mythos, by having Earth and the Pegasus Galaxy have their own issues, and teams that handled each. It's part of why the books immediately ran that back and were like "Lol no get that thing back out there."
They even set up a new enemy in the Daedalus variations and I remember reading a review saying this would be cool enemy to explore in the next season. I’m curious why the retrospective doesn’t mention Stargate Universe as a reason why Stargate Atlantis was finished early. This is the first I’ve heard that the reason was the success of the movies. Joe Flannigan has said in a few interviews that the network was happy with SGA and would have accepted another season but the word from the writers was that they wanted to concentrate on SGU and not work on two shows.
Sadly, Sam just didn’t work in SGA. They just fundamentally didn’t think it through: she can’t do any of her normal super-genius stuff because that would reflect badly in Rodney, and she can’t do any of her normal badass stuff because that would reflect badly on Sheppard. And she’s even second-bananna in All My Sins Remembered *because* taking command of the operation would reflect badly in Caldwell. So essentially she’s stuck behind a desk doing admin work all year, and occasionally getting trapped in a hole or an elevator. Both of those could have been done by anyone. If people don’t see what the problem is with having Samantha goddamn Carter on the show for a year, and never firing a single bullet, nor using her scientific abilities….I don’t know what to tell them. Carter is one of the best female characters in all of SF, and here they make no use of her whatsoever.
True. I've always said Daniel would've made a better base commander for Atlantis. His expertise on the Ancients and his diplomatic acumen would allow him to carve out a niche for himself in the cast, and it would pay off his character throughline of always trying to get to Atlantis.
Thats why i love woolsy as he did find his role there, daniel could have done the same with learning to deal with the command being on him and being a lot annoyed, lol. Plus daniel is prestigious enough and technically counts as on the civilian side to do that demand.
honestly though. a person like her reaching an important command position like Atlantis while it was under attack by wraith and ancient type replicator makes sense for her, like O-neil does for stargate command.
I always felt like it could have used a bit more oomph. It wasnt bad nor bland, just some tones felt like they could have been a pinch stronger. But maybe thats just my taste, it certainly fit a 'heavenly' theme.
No mention of the super-weird penultimate episode set in Las Vegas? Or the *other* fan service episode for nerds with Bill Nye and Neil deGrasse Tyson? Or the appearances of McKay’s sister, played by David Hewitt’s actual sister?
Tori NAILED the part of Weir, Atlantis was never the same after she left the show. She had Janeway-like style and I loved how she never belittled the men who worked under her, indulging them a few times but her line "Gentlemen, Focus" was a reminder of who was in charge. I thought she was so good as the leader of Atlantis.
The entire pivot on all fronts of the story going from season 3 to 4 was an absolute disaster for the show. I still think it was very good after but it wasn't the SAME. It compounded its baggage and started to drag itself down, wiping out the Replicators and effectively solving the Genii and just returning to the Wraith as the only actual villain even after they had been depowered and humbled by the power creep of the heroes. SG1 was smart to sidestep the Goa'uld after they became useless as enemies and only used them sparingly when they could be made MUCH more threatening (Anubis' ascendant powers, Ba'als incredible cunning).
@@Xathian The show was not planned or developed well. There were times when it seemed there was a war between two writing groups, each of which pruned the long-term developments of the other group whenever they showed signs of developing. And too much focus on Rodney in what was supposedly an ensemble cast! I know he was a great character with a great actor, that's no excuse to not develop anyone else.
@@Xathian I agree, but I also respectfully disagree with Rowan, I don't feel that Michael was a good antagonist myself and I was a little bored with him after the first episode, I much preferred "Todd" and I felt the show should have focused more on the political infighting between the different hives and showing more aspects of Wraith society. I also felt the best thing to come out of Season 4 and 5 was the Vanir, the off-shoot of the Asgard and how they reacted to the destruction of their cousins was really interesting. I am surprised Rowan didn't mention those episodes because the Stargate on Atlantis literally exploded.
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@@TernalinAgreed, Michael wasn't great, while Todd was the best frenemy in all of Stargate.
Yeah Honestly I loved her both in execution but especially in concept. She's not a military officer, she's diplomat a civilian. I feel like it tied pretty well into exploring the wider concept Stargate touched on at times, that being the whole "The Military making huge impactful decisions on behalf of the whole species with little to no oversight from civilian authorities let alone the average person."
It was a mistake by MGM to cancel Atlantis. I personally didn't like the premise of Universe and wish we had gotten more SG1 and Atlantis episodes or movies.
I can see why they did it. Keep in mind, the SG1 movies were eye opening. Instead of making a 20 episode season they made a movie that cost as much as 4 episodes and it made more money than the season would have. That's a clear indicator of a much smarter financial setup to shift the show to. While I FULLY stand on the side of long, expansive season being much better than one off movies. It's not hard to see why the powers at MGM, especially in their building financial disaster, wanted to safer movie option instead, just disregarding that the bankruptcy meant we never even got the movie.
The Shepard/McKay dynamic is exactly the reason why I think Atlantis is personally better even though I feel that objectively SG-1 is the better show. You just can't beat those 2.
@@dffndjdjd SGU came after BSG style fatigue set in. It was more about personal drama than Scifi....Needs to be a mixture of both and it didnt know what it wanted to be.
After it had alienated most of the fans of the previous iterations of the franchise, it had burned too much goodwill in the process of finding its footing.
True story. The moment I saw Jason Momoa in the second season I thought this guy has the look of a movie star and could be a movie star. And then years later it was conan, game of thrones then Aquaman that made the world see what I saw years prior. Pretty cool. Also saw Henry Cavill as a future star in The Tudors. Two proud moments realizing I saw potential in these two as others saw as well!
I remember nearing the end of his introduction episode and thinking, "this guy's actually pretty good. I hope they bring him back some. I'd watch more stuff with him." Definitely a bit of an understatement on my part seeing as he was a household name a decade later.
Rodney McKay is my favourite, Autism/ADHD solidarity all the way. Also, if Sunday doesn't make you well up at least once, there might not be hope for you. That episode is perfection.
I am in love with Stargate ever since I watched the movie in the cinema. SG1 and Atlantis were awesome and I honestly enjoed Universe A LOT - but I am still upset that this show was not allowed to have a proper conclusion. :(
Season 1 of Atlantis was definitely unique for a sci-fi show. it got off the ground running, without the usual 'we'll make up the mythos as we go along' stumblings of most first seasons.
I mean 2 and late season 1 still did improve on what could be, hell ford is even send off interesting and his comeback. plus i love ronan And teila became interesting. It still figured out kinda. But true having a lore already helped while plenty room for new one.
In fairness, unlike a lot of shows, Atlantis had a lot of established background in terms of story and lore and history, and by then extremely skilled and veteran crew working on it after SG-1. That was a well-oiled production team, by that point.
@@alex30425 name one? I don't think sci-fi really recovered on TV till 2015-2020. There was at least a 5 year 'Dark Age'. I totally count The Expanse, but that really took until 2020 to really catch fire.
@@shaggycan well the second of the decade is still the 2010s. Though yeah I’d say it’s definitely more pack in the that second half. The first one that comes to mind is Black Mirror, which premiered in 2011 which entered the mainstream and is the modern day Twilight zone. There were still other really good shows like continuum, 12 monkeys, Dark Matter, the Orville, travers and others. When it comes to other big hits there was of course The Expanse, Westworld, Stranger Things and more. The 2010s were a transition period away from episodic and cable TV but I’d say streaming allowed for some truly great Sci fi shows that found large audiences.
@@TealJosh I get the point he's making - he means the way in which sci-fi up until then was "Planet/People/Issue of the week", and then some of those would factor into a bigger storyline, instead of the series being one big push through a single story. A lot of newer sci-fi shies away from that method now, as having a more cohesive, singular plot seems to be better for audience retention, as most people might tune in and go "wtf is even happening?". Which honestly is kind of a weird thing to begin with, as it just doesn't happen anymore, because no one "tunes in" to anything on accident anymore, they start from episode #1 on a streaming service. I'd love if a few more shows would go the old TNG/DS9/VOY/SG-1 route of storytelling, but it's just not the norm anymore. He's right in the way that Orville managed that the best.
Shephard was never head of security nor did he inherit said position. Shephard became the ranking military officer upon Sumners death making Shephard the military commander. The bases chief of security was Sergeant Bates.
These long retrospectives have been great. Although always thought that SG1 was the better show, I really liked many aspects of Atlantis. You've said much of this already, the characters were fresh and not lazy copies, this created a whole new dynamic. I really liked the Wraith, they dipped into that horror aspect. Although SG1 was the stronger show, when Atlantis got things right they could got toe to to with the best of SG1.
One of the most memorable scenes is when the mass of Wraith wake up in their honeycomb-like hibernation chambers on the ship's ceiling. It really made them creepy and it effectively communicates to the audience that this is a different galaxy than that of the System Lords.
I’m surprised at the way they handle Aiden Ford. I found his story arc interesting and they never touched on it again or gave it an official definite ending.
I loved the show despite it having a ton of issues that would have killed a lesser show. Ronan grew on me, but seemed to necessitate a change in Taila, Beckett’s death was rushed, but the clone’s return cheapened it. Weir was missed when she was gone, but it was clear they were pushing her into the background prior to her departure. I loved Carter in Sg-1 but she didn’t work in season 4 and her quick departure was odd. The Athosians had potential but were pushed aside quickly. It also seems very unrealistic that the ranking military officer would also lead a team of the leading scientist which headed his own department and two alien warriors. I also wanted more of season 1’s setting with city exploration and isolation. Despite all that, I loved the characters and the I think they had the 2 best villain groups in all of stargate.
1:27 The late Joel Goldsmith's theme for Atlantis is one of my favorite science fiction themes. Just love it, and love the show. They really captured the feel of being on a new unexplored frontier.
Them basically writing out Ford never sat right with me and it's why I never picked up mroe than the first season for the longest time, I mean sure sometimes characters don't work out, but in my opinion you find ways to make him work, not jettison him for someone sexier, even if that person does become Aquaman.
I know it's a controversial hot take but I liked Ford far more than Teyla. I think Teyla is the worst main cast character in the entire franchise. Her writing from start to finish feels half baked, she almost comes off like a dated concept of the mystical native sidekick who mostly exists to espouse all the needed exposition for all the new people, enemies and planets we're heading to in this weeks episode. For like the entire latter half of the series she feels like straight up useless set dressing, and she clearly starts phoning it in badly after her real life pregnancy. She only had a handful of episodes where she felt like an interesting character. Also as a small irrelevant nitpick that annoys me, I feel like Rachel Luttrell could just never get comfortable with a gun, she holds them very awkwardly in fight scenes.
@@Xathian After B5, I thought no SF show would ever be made without established plans for arcs, but it seems the Stargate franchise never had long-term intentions as a whole or solid ideas for character development. In a show with such large cast, it was grossly irresponsible not to make plans for each ensemble member. Teyla was always an afterthought that the writers weren't comfortable with writing, and they had nothing to fall back on.
I always respected Landry's speech in continuum, even though I understood that ultimately Baal's plan would work against us. I appreciated Beau Bridges' delivery a lot.
@@Matt42MSG Yeah they REAAAALLY just glossed over him somehow having the exact same memories/personality. They literally ask at one point "How tf did he do that" but they never actually explain it.
I always found it hard to believe that O'Neill or those who knew about the stargate program would have considered colonel everett as a good (or best of the bad) option for the defence of the city. He might have been a decent enough military commander for a standard operation but the instant he stepped through the gate and announced "you are relieved" to people with nowhere to go he failed as a leader. Also very dismissive of their efforts until their arrival and seemed reluctant to find out up to date intel.
Great video! SGA is peak science fiction for me. It's wild to think that McKay barely made it onto the show, since even in a cast filled with wonderful characters and performances, Hewlett's McKay is an absolute standout for me.
Big Bang Theory "geniuses" are poorly written and I hate the show. Rodney McKay is how geniuses with bad social skills are written well, especially when he's with his sister (OMG the Shrine is so good).
Thanks for finally making this video. I have been a massive Stargate fan, and specifically a massive Stargate Atlantis fan. I was introduced to Stargate Atlantis before Stargate SG-1 or the original Movie, so I’ve been waiting on this video for a while.
@@NerdRahtio My jaw almost hit the floor when he introduced Michael and talked about how great he was. I mean Connor Trinneer is excellent and his first episode is very compelling but man did I hate Michael after that point, he's probably the thing I dislike most about the entirety of Atlantis.
She and Allison Smith - a crush of mine from back on the day - could be twins. Canada has a ridiculously attractive gene pool. Plus Leonor Varela, of course.
Rodney McKay is great in Stargate Atlantis. I had no problem believing that the character would've changed between the shows, and within Stargate Atlantis.
Man, this show was like...my first real TV show. I was too little to understand SG1 until the last few seasons, but Atlantis I watched with my dad from the first episode until it was canceled. I couldn't get enough of it and Atlantis holds a special place in my heart for the entertainment it brought me all those years ago. Thank you for this video, I think I'm going to go watch this show again!
Up to the last minute, I thought this would be the end of the retrospective, I had totally forgot Stargate Universe's existence. I watched some seasons of SG-1 and Atlantis multiple times, but I never gave a second thought to Universe!
Maybe it really is what the creators wanted to do, but it sure felt like the Sci-Fi Channel mandated that Stargate give the network another Battlestar Galactica to air. It was an interesting premise, but it just tonally didn't fit the rest of the franchise. Which, to be fair, isn't always a bad thing. Andor is tonally much different than the rest of Star Wars, but it's one of my favorite things Star Wars has ever put out. That's a difficult needle to thread though and the execution just wasn't up to that level in Stargate Universe.
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The second season was much better. I think that the biggest issue was that they ignored their own premise in a way, we spent too much time on Earth having melodrama. This could've worked later in the series, if we've got to know these people and their struggles, but on the get go this was bad. Season two was what the first one should've been.
@@pokes404 Supposedly the showrunner wasn't a fan of the Stargate franchise. That would explain a lot. I note that Universe also spent a lot of time on Earth having pointless drama due to the communication stones. Unfortunately, they never bothered working out how the stones actually functioned; that is, whether the stones merely intercepted nerve signals going in and out of the brain, or somehow transmitted someone's mind. They seemed to be leaning towards the latter in some cases, but didn't realize how many problems that brings up.
The story I’ve always heard is that Steen claimed she had a family emergency and begged time off, so they rejiggered shooting to accommodate and *then* learned that her emergency was going to Burning Man. At which point they realized they couldn’t trust her, and, boom, gone.
Actual strong women who aren't bullies or entitled are terribly rare on television, and Weir was a great character with a great actress. I never understood why they felt the need to eliminate the character...
Recently re-watched Atlantis and i do agree the removal of the Asurans was to quick should have been in season 5, the wraith needed bigger bad guys like queen death from the novels. Woolsey might have become the best commander of Atlantis given another season and all the characters and their relationships were evolving much more and better then sg-1. I believe SGU went to far for the maturity and to quickly defently influenced by battlestar.
They started by taking a proposed show by someone who wasn't a fan of SG and persuading him to set it in that universe for the increased fan draw. Then they miffed making a plot for development, made characters who were unprofessional and often unlikeable, made most of the characters make stupid choices, turned the show into a soap opera in the worst sense of the term, didn't work out the details of how their science fiction worked... and didn't learn from their mistakes fast enough. SG-1 had some problems early on, but they learned fast and corrected errors rapidly. Universe doubled-down.
Sadly, Sam just didn’t work in SGA. They just fundamentally didn’t think it through: she can’t do any of her normal super-genius stuff because that would reflect badly in Rodney, and she can’t do any of her normal badass stuff because that would reflect badly on Sheppard. And she’s even second-bananna in All My Sins Remembered *because* taking command of the operation would reflect badly in Caldwell. So essentially she’s stuck behind a desk doing admin work all year, and occasionally getting trapped in a hole or an elevator. Both of those could have been done by anyone. If people don’t see what the problem is with having Samantha goddamn Carter on the show for a year, and never firing a single bullet, nor using her scientific abilities….I don’t know what to tell them. Carter is one of the best female characters in all of SF, and here they make no use of her whatsoever.
watching this has reminded me how angry I am that we never got a continuation of Atlantis, there was so much potential at the end of season 5, it was such a disappointment back then and has reopened the wound!
Yes the Stargate: Infinity(2002-2003) cartoon series and the Stargate: Origins(2018) web series, were both drasticly bad in there own ways. I will only say that as far as the computer games that tryed to provide Fans with a good Stargate gaming experience only Stargate: Timekeepers(2024) has found the right balance of fan service magic.
Atlantis is my favorite SG series. I have watched the whole thing more than 10 times, and still default to a choice few fairly often(Tao of Rodney, and the 3-part The Siege the most). I was lucky enough to meet David Hewlett and Jewel Staite at Shore Leave in 2008, and my photo with them is one of my prized possessions. I was devastated when it was canceled, and further when the movie never came to be. Shepherd: "how are the weapons coming?" McKay: "We couldn't hit the side of a barn." Shepherd: "Well, compared to a hive ship, a barn is-" McKay: "A GIANT, FLYING BARN! We couldn't hit that!"
Been waiting for this episode for so long and I have to watch later😢 it's 11.30pm and I got work at 4am Sad I can't be here watching this with all the SG teams. Thank you for all your hard work putting these videos together. ✌🏻 'n' ❤
Robert Picardo is on a whole other level, the guy stole scene after scene in season 5, his scene talking about his fathers Alzheimer’s was incredible acting
The way this is phrased makes it seem like Ark of Truth and Continuum take place after season 4. In terms of continuity, Ark takes place after the end of season 10 of SG1 and prior to the first episode of season 4 of SGA. Continuum takes place after the first episode of season 5 of SGA.
A the Eureka cast popped up in a lot of programs especially the ones by the Sci-fi channel. It was always fun spotting them. It would be cool to get a Eureka retrospective 😀
I'm a huge SG1 fan and I liked Atlantis. I agree that SG1 was the superior show and that Atlantis became a bit aimless. Tbh, for me, it was a horrible shame that all three shows came to an end when they did. There was definitely still at least a season left to explore the Ori. As SG1 also had a dip around season 4/5, I think there's a good chance that Atlantis could have recovered too. With SGU, I think that it would have done better in a streaming era, when the whole season could have dropped and been binged in one go. It was too slow for week to week release. I think the situation also killed it with the fans because they believed SGU was being traded for SGA. I actually didn't watch SGU myself until a couple of years after its release and I really enjoyed it. I would have also loved to see more there. Really, it's just crappy that a show like Supernatural got to plod on with nowhere near the same material to mine, while all these great shows got cancelled. It's also really crap that we are still waiting around for more. It's high time that we get something else with a genuine tie to the original shows. I just hope that whatever comes next is high quality and can survive in the new TV landscape. I mean, even Russell T Davies is uncertain about the future of Doctor Who at the moment. I miss the days of a loyal audience meaning something to execs.
Really seems with hindsight being what it is, that someone in management at SciFi was out to kill Stargate for seemingly personal reasons and they were successful. The shows were successful on TV, the movies were massive unexpected successes, and yet everything got cancelled for seemingly no reason. I was a huge fan when it came out and the only semi-understandable cancellation of Stargate Universe made any sense, and even then, I felt like that show was starting to get its footing as it started getting more light-hearted in the second season. And with the Sci-Fi channels changes in following years I am convinced executives at the helm were just out to kill the "nerdy" TV show so they could move onto their own visions.
According to the showrunners Sci-Fi were actually very supportive of both shows. Stargate's downfall had more to do with MGM's financial difficulties and the show's producers pivoting to a market which was about to evaporate. The Sci-Fi Channel, in this case, weren't at fault.
It was financials, not malice. Stargate was an expensive show, Atlantis even more so. Millions per episode. It was easier to shift from a 20 episode yearly season to an annual movie that only cost as much as 3-4 episodes. The problem was they cancelled the show to shift to that movie approach then MGM absolutely imploded in the process. Basically the entire company reshuffled and the people in charge after that weren't interested anymore. Joe Flangan had a story he told at ComiCon about trying to save the show. He got a bunch of investors interested in buying the production rights to Atlantis to continue the show after the movie was stalled, heads at MGM during the restructure were interested in the idea and it was working out. Then MGM finalized their bankruptcy and fully restructured and everyone he had been making the deal negotiations with were no longer with the company. Killed the entire plan.
Honestly, I was kind of disappointed that McKay didn't make a Scanners reference when he became psychic. He could've at least made the face once during the episode or telekineticly pushed someone across the room. It would've been cool to see a Wraith's head blow up, tbh.
Vancouver dude here - the Pemberton Icefields (not glacier) aren't in Alaska - it's located nearby Pemberton BC (north of Whistler) . Picky but - yeah gotta rep Pemby proper.
I watched SG-1 from the start, but SGA was the one where I got into the fandom aspect of it, mainly fanfiction. And I still miss a lot of things about that. While the show was good (at first) there was also a lot of space left by the narrative to expand in all directions. And I enjoyed the ones that focused on creating a future for/in the Pegasus Galaxy. One story that never actually got written, just the a setup chapter, still makes me kind of wish that it was a show I could have watched. The premise was that during the preparations for the expedition somebody pointed out that preparations for a trip where you know NOTHING about where you're going and if you would ever be able to get back would mean preparing to found a colony world. So they took seeds and trees and picked staff with relevant secondary skills AND practiced going through the Stargate a lot so they could use up every millisecond to get through as many resources as possible. To this day I cringe when watching the scene with Sheppard and Ford just standing talking around while the Stargate is already connected to Atlantis. This is also why the show's ending with Atlantis on earth just feels wrong. It needed to go back to the Pegasus galaxy. The last season(s) also have a lot of bad stuff in it. I vaguely remember an episode with a "special all women!!" gate team that was incredibly bad and offensive. I also remember many people pointing out, that while in general the idea of Teal'c vs. Ronon is fun and the episodes had some good stuff in it, the exact way they did the scene with Ronon and Teal'c fighting/sparring is set up in a way that there are two men of color fighting for the entertainment of a bunch of white men standing around them (and betting). (And I can absolutely see how that scene came about without any bad intentions!, but it still has some bad vibes.) I also still recall some disparaging comments from the showrunners at the end about the fans that absolutely made me feel unwanted. (not young and male enough, eh?) That said, I still tried to watch Stargate Universe, but found it just simply unenjoyable. All that said, it was incredibly fun to watch this video and be reminded of a lot of things I loved about the show, so that you for making it!
I do have a problem with videos on this channel: They are so well done that I want to rewatch the covered series, but I want spoil their story, so I can't watch the reviews in full. ;)
My favorite actor/actress on this show was Rachel Luttrell. Great actress and was cool having a native of the galaxy in such a central role. Makes me want to binge Atlantis again.
Thank you so much for doing this for stargate! I always feel like in the wider audience there are only two Star sci fi universes, and I LOVE that my favorite show of all time is getting such loving treatment from you! Also, just in general you are VERY good at these long form videos, and if this is something that interests you (and supports you) enough, I believe you can find major success in this whole youtube thing. Like, you are just too good not be loved once the algorithm hits or whatever.
I loved the first season. But I stopped watching in the early-mid second season as the episodes became repetitive for a while. They were all, 'McKay is going to die! And only John Sheppard can save him!' Or 'John Sheppard is going to die! And only Rodney McKay can save him!' Or 'Rodney McKay and John Sheppard are going to die! And only by working together can they be saved!' Fortunately I came back eventually and finished it and stayed with the show until the end. I did love it, despite my mid-second season abandonment for a while.
I love watching these retrospectives but man, it's a bummer realising that all of the series were screwed over and ended up canned before a proper finale kinda sucks and each new series ended worse off than the one before it.
It really is a cursed franchise. SG1 almost didn't get its closure if not for the hail mary with the movies. Atlantis didn't get its closure, Universe didn't come even close to any closure. Origins was an abomination that was student film tier production quality (if not dipping down to fan film tier). This franchise exists to invent incredible ideas and build amazing universes and then let them founder in endless dangling plot threads.
When you realize that this series ended in 2009, and that it was 15 years ago... ...the 2000s had a lot of great series, and it was the end of the era of appointment television. With streaming, there are some good shows, but nothing to this level of quality. Given the state of Canada at the moment, we probably won't see anything like this again for a long, long time.
And sadly. Atlantis is where the small screen outing should have ended for Stargate. I could never get into Universe. It seemed to lack a lot of what the other shows were an tried too hard to be something it wasn't, in my opinion. I re-watch SG1 and Atlantis when I am not re-watching B5 or binge watching movies. I have older Star Trek on almost everyday at some point.
Universe is an odd one, it's a tonal mess that is just NOT Stargate, but I kept going back because even as a failure of Stargate I think there was a nugget of something in there toward the end, I feel like it could have become something good, even if it was good but not really Stargate. I also liked some of the actors. Louis Ferreira was very interesting to me, I feel he portrayed leadership in a dire situation very well. I feel David Blue was a very relatable person for the average "nerdy fan" watching the franchise back in those days (pre-modern "nerd culture") and Robert Carlyle is just great whenever a camera is pointed at him.
No need to bother with the SGU. It needs to be retcon'd out of the cannon. It killed stargate, was and still is unliked by fans(it's premier did less than a SG1 repeat the same week) and is at its very best is derivative of BSG at its worst turns into some sort of teen drama.
disagree completely, is it flawed- yes, but i loved the characters. it did feel forced sometimes and needlessly dragged out - still think it shouldve continued to redeem itself
Unfortunately, this is where I get off the train. This is not a subtraction from your review, all of which even for movies I've either disliked or never watched. SGA really does start to tumble midway through season 4 just after the destruction of the Replicators and then nosedives further in season 5. Ultimately speaking, SG-1's cancellation had been the writing on the wall for years, yet the story was satisfyingly resolved even if there were still threads leftover. Atlantis on the other hand I can't extend this grace to, the story is unfinished and startlingly breaks their own established rules constantly through the 4th and 5th season. No beaming with your own shields up was completely arbitrary and never mentioned to be an issue before Season 5's "Search and Rescue". Atlantis' shields being impenetrable while powered was broken twice - During the Lost Tribe and Series finale. The series finale was setup and executed entirely because the show wasn't renewed and the writers did such a poor job putting the Wraith in the position to reach Earth they had to trump up a ZPM powered freak of a hiveship (which doesn't solve the previously estabishlished 'not an intergalactic hyperdrive' explanation) that got the coordinates for Earth from a paraelle universe broadcast that had already crossed the void between galaxies (3 million lightyears), I cannot make this crap up. A-team Syndrome was fairly bad in SG-1 but significantly worse for Atlantis. The show also switches from fairly grounded modern live action Sci-Fi, to full on Star Trek lookalike with most of the same issues, including hard resets at the end of episodes. Atlantis is supposed to be a multimillion year old ship that hasn't been tended to for thousand upon thousand of years, the crew beat the crap out of it constantly and other than a handwave explanation in Season 3 when the Replicators briefly control it to repair it, lasting damage isn't even mentioned again until Season 5 - referencing the flooding from Season 1's the Storm/Eye 2 parter (which should've been fixed by the Replicators). I like Atlantis but I make no attempt to hide the fact that I think SG-1 is the better show, by a significant margin. The ratings overall show this as well, the highest scoring episode for Atlantis is a 9.2 (Be All My Sins Remember'd) with only two other episodes making 9.0 or higher: Season 4's Midway, and Season 5's First Contact. Neither of which I think are deserved, SGA's best episode is Season 3's finale First Strike (which doesn't even score the highest rating that season), and two episodes actually worthy of a 9.0+ being S3E01 No Man's Land, and S01E15... which is a clipshow no less, Before I Sleep. Sg1 on the other hand, only gets 2 9.0+'s in its first 5 seasons: Season 2's the Fifth Race, and Season 4's Window of Opportunity. However, where SG1 succeeds where SGA fails was capturing Lightning in a bottle, twice. Season 7's The Lost City part 2 ties for the highest rated episode of Stargate ever made, a 9.5, tied with Window of Opportunity. SG1 has 3 complete story arcs, even if the Ori arc was cut short, it was complete. I cannot judge what isn't there, Atlantis has... zero complete arcs. The Pegasus Galaxy as of the end of Atlantis is still firmly in control by the Wraith, even if their presence has been weakened. The Atlantis Expidition is now stranded on Earth in the San Francisco bay no less, with seemingly no way to return. The BS wormhole drive pulled from thinair in the final episode burnt out after one use and they establish this: You cannot dial any Stargate in the Pegasus Galaxy except for the one with the control crystal that allows 8 symbole addresses... which is embedded in the Atlantis computer systems now stranded in California with 3 nearly depleted ZPMs on the inside of the Golden Gate Bridge. Also just to really piss on the ashes, they destroyed the Ancient Outpost Command chair/weapons platform in the same episode, which means the only one left that can fire drones is the one on Atlantis, which is, as I have mentioned... stranded on Earth. The IOA is *never* going to let it go since they need it to defend Earth, the novels can screw off. Atlantis ultimately leaves Stargate at is absolute lowest state: the SGC/Homeworld Command/IOA is completely cutoff from Pegasus with a bloodied but not defeated enemy licking its wounds and biding its time, with no way back except by starship and no ZPMs to power them, an entirely decimated Earth defense system that cannot be replaced, and a city sized starship waiting for its cloak to fail in a spot that it cannot be moved from. So I ask this. All for what? So that we could get SGU? Stargate Universe is quite frankly an embrassment and then Brad Wright had the audicty to blame the fans for its failure, which is what it is, a failure through and through. 2 seasons and canceled - and absolutely deserved. Atlantis and Sg-1's weakest seasons are opposites: Sg-1's season 1 is the weakest, Atlantis season 5 is the weakest. SGU's weakest seasons are the fact that story even got a second season, period. Unlikable characters, non-sense plots, and melodrama, so, so much melodrama. Funnily enough the show that deserved more seasons was the one that needed it the least: SG-1. As a proper wrap up to the Ori arc would've been better suited than a 6th season of Atlantis. Additionally, while midway is awesome I can't shake the feeling the destruction of the Midway space station was entirely for the reason that the SG-1 sets had been disassembled from the show's cancellation. There was no point to having it if there's no walking to and from another studio anymore. An additional season of Sg-1 would've meant another year's overlap with Atlantis which should've been the send off for SG-1 to hand the show over to Atlantis going forwards, even if it was only for one more year.
I really like SG Atlantis. There is something really interesting in vampire like undead zerg creature. Cosmic horrors. SG-1 took place in earth base, Earth was always well defended. While Atlantis fight for survive since day one, literally. Against hordes of enemies that killed ancients. Without even power to fly away, travel back home, or to defend. And slowly girinding their way to defeat Wraiths and Replicators. Also, i like Shep, McKay, Teala and Ronon.
HELP THE CHANNEL GROW: www.patreon.com/rowanjcoleman
OK fine, I'll rewatch Atlantis again.
I never did because it wasnt sg1. I think i am now growup enough to start with an open mind😂
They cut it off at cliffhanger, assholes
Just finished my bi-annual binge watch
@@rutgerb Oh to be able to watch it for the first time again... you're in for a treat.
@@rutgerb I actually envy you!
Have a nice journey
The best youtube channel
Honestly always felt like Atlantis' core problem was how it never really felt like it had a good arc after that first season. First season starts and ends so strongly because you know what the stakes are, the Wraith wanting to get to Atlantis (who are cut off from Earth) so they can get to Earth. After that it just felt like "well the Wraith are around and we battle them but heyho". Michael and the Asurans were clearly both stopgaps to fill the void (with the former seeing the same concepts repeated over and over while the latter was axed within a season) but it never really glued together.
the fact that Shepherd had the balls to just splash 55 geni against the gate shield is part of why I like him almost as much as o'neill.
That episode was awesome. Basically die hard in stargate.
@@jayburn00 you mean other than the stsg1 referencin it ?
lol
@@jayburn00"how do you know which dot is Shepherd?" he's the dot that's going to be killing all the other dots"
Stargate SG1 was popular enough that NORAD's Cheyenne Mountain facility labeled a supply closet door "Stargate Command" for the tourists.
@@TomatoFettucciniand he lead several missions interuppting Japanese whaling vessels 😂
At least that's what they want us to believe
One of the quality-of-life services provided within the facility is a barber shop, so they could have given Joe Spencer a job there.
Ronon vs Teal'c is fanservice done RIGHT
Indeed. /s
Undomesticated equines could not keep from away from this.
The look on Shepherds face as Ronan decides to go hand-to-hand is incredible.
"I would very much like to have a weapon such as this."
"Yeah, get in line."
As someone who has met Jason Momoa a few times and was lucky enough to have spent time in his company while he was on Atlantis, I can tell you that a lot of Ronon's character is straight from Jason's own. His sense of humor, how physical he is, that's all Jason, lol.
As an example I will tell you an anecdote from a Stargate Atlantis convention I worked at in the UK. I was security for Joe at the time and we were walking through the main hall outside the Green Room when the nearby toilet door opens and Jason appears. Upon seeing Joe he grins and then charges me and Joe, slamming us both to the ground, him on top as he hugs Joe. Then laughing he leaps up, grabs Joe's and my hands and drags us to our feet. Patting us down, he grins and walks off. When I asked Joe if that was how Jason normally behaved the man looked at me with tired eyes and said 'Yeah ... all the time', LOL :D
Inreresting but makws sense if it fits on the show. And jason mamoa seems awesome and lovely. Dude even adopted wolves. And how he on a talkshow is a dork lol
I always wondered why he didn't go anywhere, and figured he was washed in B movies...
Based on the kind of stuff Joe has posted on IG with Jason in it, this checks out 100%. lol
After seeing Jason bring Joe into that commercial recently, seeing how they are still friends, I love hearing this.
Who is Joe?
The slow, multi year build up to actually seeing Atlantis take off and fly through space was amazing. Seeing a city sized ship was fantastic.
indeed
Though I love Star Trek series and Battlestar Galactica it's only Stargate SG-1 & Atlantis that has that red thread of continuity of progress no other show have. Humanity goes from MP5's to Intergalactic Battlecruisers.
@@Zyzyx442 oh! watch the expanse! :)
@@lincolnnoronha4128 thanks, looks good.
I still think Stargate Atlantis had at least 1-2 more good seasons in it. There were so many storylines left open and needed exploring. The fact that Aiden Ford wasn’t brought back is just a shame.
The Asgard offshoots in particular needed more story time, particularly after the extinction of the “local” ones at the end of SG-1.
Yeah, its really sad, and woolsy really carried a lot ther alone and there easyy could be other things to fight. plus wraith still exist, and the traveller, i mean the traveller ship folk and allies and the alliance that existed that didnt like them or was odd on them that existed is really interesting.
Its really interesting that the y mess up stuff too and are sideyed by an alliance in that universe that isnt known. And they are foreigner.
Which also is way more aware to not be the saviours but more complicated.
My biggest issue is that the ending was "We took Atlantis to Earth". Atlantis felt like a home in a different universe - it made a great way to separate the two chunks of the series mythos, by having Earth and the Pegasus Galaxy have their own issues, and teams that handled each. It's part of why the books immediately ran that back and were like "Lol no get that thing back out there."
They even set up a new enemy in the Daedalus variations and I remember reading a review saying this would be cool enemy to explore in the next season.
I’m curious why the retrospective doesn’t mention Stargate Universe as a reason why Stargate Atlantis was finished early. This is the first I’ve heard that the reason was the success of the movies.
Joe Flannigan has said in a few interviews that the network was happy with SGA and would have accepted another season but the word from the writers was that they wanted to concentrate on SGU and not work on two shows.
@@IrisCorven well the plan was apparently to always take Atlantis back to Pegasus
Sadly, Sam just didn’t work in SGA. They just fundamentally didn’t think it through: she can’t do any of her normal super-genius stuff because that would reflect badly in Rodney, and she can’t do any of her normal badass stuff because that would reflect badly on Sheppard. And she’s even second-bananna in All My Sins Remembered *because* taking command of the operation would reflect badly in Caldwell. So essentially she’s stuck behind a desk doing admin work all year, and occasionally getting trapped in a hole or an elevator. Both of those could have been done by anyone.
If people don’t see what the problem is with having Samantha goddamn Carter on the show for a year, and never firing a single bullet, nor using her scientific abilities….I don’t know what to tell them. Carter is one of the best female characters in all of SF, and here they make no use of her whatsoever.
True. I've always said Daniel would've made a better base commander for Atlantis. His expertise on the Ancients and his diplomatic acumen would allow him to carve out a niche for himself in the cast, and it would pay off his character throughline of always trying to get to Atlantis.
Thats why i love woolsy as he did find his role there,
daniel could have done the same with learning to deal with the command being on him and being a lot annoyed, lol. Plus daniel is prestigious enough and technically counts as on the civilian side to do that demand.
Came here to say this 🙂 I'm happy Amanda Tapping got a paycheck for another season, but her involvement in the series was minimal.
honestly though. a person like her reaching an important command position like Atlantis while it was under attack by wraith and ancient type replicator makes sense for her, like O-neil does for stargate command.
@@werewolfjedi38ya know, as Jack would say, that’s O’Neill with 2 L’s, not the other guy. 😅
Atlantis is the only show where I NEVER skip the opening credits. That main theme is just Heavenly! 😇
I always felt like it could have used a bit more oomph. It wasnt bad nor bland, just some tones felt like they could have been a pinch stronger.
But maybe thats just my taste, it certainly fit a 'heavenly' theme.
The Season 4 (IIRC) effect of the character being somewhat frozen struck me as an excellent touch.
No mention of the super-weird penultimate episode set in Las Vegas? Or the *other* fan service episode for nerds with Bill Nye and Neil deGrasse Tyson? Or the appearances of McKay’s sister, played by David Hewitt’s actual sister?
Yeah, mind blown about the absence of Vegas. Very strong twist on the tone, gave some good space for Joe Flanagan to play a spin on his character.
His sister appeared in what, like 6 episodes.
Ohhh I didn't know it was his actual sister, that's cool to know!
He needs to leave something for people to find in the show that's not spoiled.
Tori NAILED the part of Weir, Atlantis was never the same after she left the show. She had Janeway-like style and I loved how she never belittled the men who worked under her, indulging them a few times but her line "Gentlemen, Focus" was a reminder of who was in charge. I thought she was so good as the leader of Atlantis.
The entire pivot on all fronts of the story going from season 3 to 4 was an absolute disaster for the show. I still think it was very good after but it wasn't the SAME. It compounded its baggage and started to drag itself down, wiping out the Replicators and effectively solving the Genii and just returning to the Wraith as the only actual villain even after they had been depowered and humbled by the power creep of the heroes. SG1 was smart to sidestep the Goa'uld after they became useless as enemies and only used them sparingly when they could be made MUCH more threatening (Anubis' ascendant powers, Ba'als incredible cunning).
@@Xathian The show was not planned or developed well. There were times when it seemed there was a war between two writing groups, each of which pruned the long-term developments of the other group whenever they showed signs of developing. And too much focus on Rodney in what was supposedly an ensemble cast! I know he was a great character with a great actor, that's no excuse to not develop anyone else.
@@Xathian I agree, but I also respectfully disagree with Rowan, I don't feel that Michael was a good antagonist myself and I was a little bored with him after the first episode, I much preferred "Todd" and I felt the show should have focused more on the political infighting between the different hives and showing more aspects of Wraith society.
I also felt the best thing to come out of Season 4 and 5 was the Vanir, the off-shoot of the Asgard and how they reacted to the destruction of their cousins was really interesting. I am surprised Rowan didn't mention those episodes because the Stargate on Atlantis literally exploded.
@@TernalinAgreed, Michael wasn't great, while Todd was the best frenemy in all of Stargate.
Yeah Honestly I loved her both in execution but especially in concept. She's not a military officer, she's diplomat a civilian. I feel like it tied pretty well into exploring the wider concept Stargate touched on at times, that being the whole "The Military making huge impactful decisions on behalf of the whole species with little to no oversight from civilian authorities let alone the average person."
It was a mistake by MGM to cancel Atlantis. I personally didn't like the premise of Universe and wish we had gotten more SG1 and Atlantis episodes or movies.
I can see why they did it. Keep in mind, the SG1 movies were eye opening. Instead of making a 20 episode season they made a movie that cost as much as 4 episodes and it made more money than the season would have. That's a clear indicator of a much smarter financial setup to shift the show to. While I FULLY stand on the side of long, expansive season being much better than one off movies. It's not hard to see why the powers at MGM, especially in their building financial disaster, wanted to safer movie option instead, just disregarding that the bankruptcy meant we never even got the movie.
Man, McKay and Shepard were just a lot of fun. I've loved all of the SG, but there was something about Atlantis.
Favorite moment is when Shepard Gives Cameron a Lemon tells him to use it on Mckay whenever he needs a Miracle.
The Shepard/McKay dynamic is exactly the reason why I think Atlantis is personally better even though I feel that objectively SG-1 is the better show. You just can't beat those 2.
Ima just shout out the most underappreciated character from the show. Radek Zelenka.
Those two worked well together!😅
@Xathian it's Jack O'Neill and Daniel dialed up. Great pairing of actors/characters!
Stargate Universe. Just when it found it's footing and got good it was cancelled.
@@dffndjdjd SGU came after BSG style fatigue set in. It was more about personal drama than Scifi....Needs to be a mixture of both and it didnt know what it wanted to be.
The unrelenting grimdark misery capped off every episode by a music video montage eventually turned me off.
It got way too dark for franchise
After it had alienated most of the fans of the previous iterations of the franchise, it had burned too much goodwill in the process of finding its footing.
@Matt42MSG i stopped early on. It was the wrong direction
That "but first I need something to heal" line could have come straight out of Firefly.
“It’s a mite fuzzy on the subject of kneecaps.” (Shepherd Book)
True story. The moment I saw Jason Momoa in the second season I thought this guy has the look of a movie star and could be a movie star. And then years later it was conan, game of thrones then Aquaman that made the world see what I saw years prior. Pretty cool. Also saw Henry Cavill as a future star in The Tudors. Two proud moments realizing I saw potential in these two as others saw as well!
I remember nearing the end of his introduction episode and thinking, "this guy's actually pretty good. I hope they bring him back some. I'd watch more stuff with him." Definitely a bit of an understatement on my part seeing as he was a household name a decade later.
I had the same reaction when I saw about 18 years ago James McAvoy in Children of Dune, and then years later he became the young professor X
Rodney McKay is my favourite, Autism/ADHD solidarity all the way.
Also, if Sunday doesn't make you well up at least once, there might not be hope for you. That episode is perfection.
I am in love with Stargate ever since I watched the movie in the cinema. SG1 and Atlantis were awesome and I honestly enjoed Universe A LOT - but I am still upset that this show was not allowed to have a proper conclusion. :(
I wonder if he's going to cover the recent web series where Connor Trinneer appears.
Season 1 of Atlantis was definitely unique for a sci-fi show. it got off the ground running, without the usual 'we'll make up the mythos as we go along' stumblings of most first seasons.
I mean 2 and late season 1 still did improve on what could be, hell ford is even send off interesting and his comeback. plus i love ronan And teila became interesting. It still figured out kinda.
But true having a lore already helped while plenty room for new one.
In fairness, unlike a lot of shows, Atlantis had a lot of established background in terms of story and lore and history, and by then extremely skilled and veteran crew working on it after SG-1. That was a well-oiled production team, by that point.
When Atlantis and Enterprise were cancelled it was the end of the golden age of TV Sci-fi.
I don’t know, we got some truly amazing Sci fi shows in the 2010s. Some of them even being way more popular with the mainstream.
@@alex30425 name one? I don't think sci-fi really recovered on TV till 2015-2020. There was at least a 5 year 'Dark Age'. I totally count The Expanse, but that really took until 2020 to really catch fire.
@@shaggycan well the second of the decade is still the 2010s. Though yeah I’d say it’s definitely more pack in the that second half. The first one that comes to mind is Black Mirror, which premiered in 2011 which entered the mainstream and is the modern day Twilight zone. There were still other really good shows like continuum, 12 monkeys, Dark Matter, the Orville, travers and others. When it comes to other big hits there was of course The Expanse, Westworld, Stranger Things and more. The 2010s were a transition period away from episodic and cable TV but I’d say streaming allowed for some truly great Sci fi shows that found large audiences.
@@dffndjdjdI'm a little confused by what you are using the word serialized for.
@@TealJosh I get the point he's making - he means the way in which sci-fi up until then was "Planet/People/Issue of the week", and then some of those would factor into a bigger storyline, instead of the series being one big push through a single story. A lot of newer sci-fi shies away from that method now, as having a more cohesive, singular plot seems to be better for audience retention, as most people might tune in and go "wtf is even happening?". Which honestly is kind of a weird thing to begin with, as it just doesn't happen anymore, because no one "tunes in" to anything on accident anymore, they start from episode #1 on a streaming service.
I'd love if a few more shows would go the old TNG/DS9/VOY/SG-1 route of storytelling, but it's just not the norm anymore. He's right in the way that Orville managed that the best.
Will you be doing a retrospective on Amanda Tapping's series, Sanctuary?
Surprisingly good for something they threw together to round out Tapping's contract.
I love Atlantis, but when Higginson and McGillion were written out of the show, they pissed off too many of the fans, myself included.
Yay more Stargate content
Anyone seen the recent guinnes commercial with Jason mamoa and joe flannigan😂
I have now - love it!
That's really funny!
Thanks for the heads up!
Shephard was never head of security nor did he inherit said position. Shephard became the ranking military officer upon Sumners death making Shephard the military commander. The bases chief of security was Sergeant Bates.
These long retrospectives have been great. Although always thought that SG1 was the better show, I really liked many aspects of Atlantis. You've said much of this already, the characters were fresh and not lazy copies, this created a whole new dynamic. I really liked the Wraith, they dipped into that horror aspect. Although SG1 was the stronger show, when Atlantis got things right they could got toe to to with the best of SG1.
There are some great episodes of SGA that trump ones from SG1, for me. Which is saying a lot, because SG1 has some killer episodes.
One of the most memorable scenes is when the mass of Wraith wake up in their honeycomb-like hibernation chambers on the ship's ceiling. It really made them creepy and it effectively communicates to the audience that this is a different galaxy than that of the System Lords.
I’m surprised at the way they handle Aiden Ford. I found his story arc interesting and they never touched on it again or gave it an official definite ending.
I loved the show despite it having a ton of issues that would have killed a lesser show. Ronan grew on me, but seemed to necessitate a change in Taila, Beckett’s death was rushed, but the clone’s return cheapened it. Weir was missed when she was gone, but it was clear they were pushing her into the background prior to her departure. I loved Carter in Sg-1 but she didn’t work in season 4 and her quick departure was odd. The Athosians had potential but were pushed aside quickly. It also seems very unrealistic that the ranking military officer would also lead a team of the leading scientist which headed his own department and two alien warriors. I also wanted more of season 1’s setting with city exploration and isolation. Despite all that, I loved the characters and the I think they had the 2 best villain groups in all of stargate.
1:27 The late Joel Goldsmith's theme for Atlantis is one of my favorite science fiction themes. Just love it, and love the show. They really captured the feel of being on a new unexplored frontier.
Them basically writing out Ford never sat right with me and it's why I never picked up mroe than the first season for the longest time, I mean sure sometimes characters don't work out, but in my opinion you find ways to make him work, not jettison him for someone sexier, even if that person does become Aquaman.
I know it's a controversial hot take but I liked Ford far more than Teyla. I think Teyla is the worst main cast character in the entire franchise. Her writing from start to finish feels half baked, she almost comes off like a dated concept of the mystical native sidekick who mostly exists to espouse all the needed exposition for all the new people, enemies and planets we're heading to in this weeks episode. For like the entire latter half of the series she feels like straight up useless set dressing, and she clearly starts phoning it in badly after her real life pregnancy. She only had a handful of episodes where she felt like an interesting character.
Also as a small irrelevant nitpick that annoys me, I feel like Rachel Luttrell could just never get comfortable with a gun, she holds them very awkwardly in fight scenes.
@@Xathian After B5, I thought no SF show would ever be made without established plans for arcs, but it seems the Stargate franchise never had long-term intentions as a whole or solid ideas for character development. In a show with such large cast, it was grossly irresponsible not to make plans for each ensemble member. Teyla was always an afterthought that the writers weren't comfortable with writing, and they had nothing to fall back on.
I always respected Landry's speech in continuum, even though I understood that ultimately Baal's plan would work against us. I appreciated Beau Bridges' delivery a lot.
Beau Bridges was gold, I loved basically any scene when Landry spoke
Still not over Carson Beckett's death.
I really disliked the attempt to 'bring him back', not least because that isn't how cloning works.
@@Matt42MSG Yeah they REAAAALLY just glossed over him somehow having the exact same memories/personality. They literally ask at one point "How tf did he do that" but they never actually explain it.
@@supermagnificence7503 Atlantis had some good writing, and lots of bad writing. Very patchy.
I always found it hard to believe that O'Neill or those who knew about the stargate program would have considered colonel everett as a good (or best of the bad) option for the defence of the city. He might have been a decent enough military commander for a standard operation but the instant he stepped through the gate and announced "you are relieved" to people with nowhere to go he failed as a leader. Also very dismissive of their efforts until their arrival and seemed reluctant to find out up to date intel.
Great video! SGA is peak science fiction for me. It's wild to think that McKay barely made it onto the show, since even in a cast filled with wonderful characters and performances, Hewlett's McKay is an absolute standout for me.
20:35 I forgot Colm Meaney was in Atlantis, but I immediately recall loving him in it!
1:00:00 oh cool, I thought the films were forthcoming, nice!
Hell, his character in Atlantis was FAR cooler than STTNG or DS9.
Big Bang Theory "geniuses" are poorly written and I hate the show. Rodney McKay is how geniuses with bad social skills are written well, especially when he's with his sister (OMG the Shrine is so good).
You forgot the best episode "the shrine" because of david Hewlett's acting.
Thanks for finally making this video. I have been a massive Stargate fan, and specifically a massive Stargate Atlantis fan. I was introduced to Stargate Atlantis before Stargate SG-1 or the original Movie, so I’ve been waiting on this video for a while.
Always had a softspot for Atlantis. Its not very deep but its just so kinda, well made TV. Comfy but actionpacked, funny but well acted at times.
Anyone else irritated he didn’t talk about Todd that much
Yeah, Todd was much more well written and more interesting than Michael
@@NerdRahtio My jaw almost hit the floor when he introduced Michael and talked about how great he was. I mean Connor Trinneer is excellent and his first episode is very compelling but man did I hate Michael after that point, he's probably the thing I dislike most about the entirety of Atlantis.
@@Xathian yeah his writing went down hill, the character changed to much and in an unbelievable way to me, and yet I wanted more Todd.
You must say the word Staaaar at least 500 times in each of these Stargate or Star Trek retrospectives.
Hey you didn't mention the absolutely incredible alternate reality episode Vegas! It's like X-Files meets CSI!
So many stunning ladies on this show. Not sure I ever recovered from Erin Chambers though.
She and Allison Smith - a crush of mine from back on the day - could be twins. Canada has a ridiculously attractive gene pool. Plus Leonor Varela, of course.
Rodney McKay is great in Stargate Atlantis. I had no problem believing that the character would've changed between the shows, and within Stargate Atlantis.
Thank you for Re-uploading with the end fixed.
Going to need a new badge soon almost 3 years.
Man, this show was like...my first real TV show. I was too little to understand SG1 until the last few seasons, but Atlantis I watched with my dad from the first episode until it was canceled. I couldn't get enough of it and Atlantis holds a special place in my heart for the entertainment it brought me all those years ago. Thank you for this video, I think I'm going to go watch this show again!
1:14:01 But what about the greatest Stargate show of them all: Stargate Origins?
I see myself out...
💀
Up to the last minute, I thought this would be the end of the retrospective, I had totally forgot Stargate Universe's existence. I watched some seasons of SG-1 and Atlantis multiple times, but I never gave a second thought to Universe!
Only good thing about it was the music. And that one episode with the facehuggers was fun too.
@@kelvincasing5265 So much wasted potential...
Maybe it really is what the creators wanted to do, but it sure felt like the Sci-Fi Channel mandated that Stargate give the network another Battlestar Galactica to air. It was an interesting premise, but it just tonally didn't fit the rest of the franchise. Which, to be fair, isn't always a bad thing. Andor is tonally much different than the rest of Star Wars, but it's one of my favorite things Star Wars has ever put out. That's a difficult needle to thread though and the execution just wasn't up to that level in Stargate Universe.
The second season was much better. I think that the biggest issue was that they ignored their own premise in a way, we spent too much time on Earth having melodrama. This could've worked later in the series, if we've got to know these people and their struggles, but on the get go this was bad. Season two was what the first one should've been.
@@pokes404 Supposedly the showrunner wasn't a fan of the Stargate franchise. That would explain a lot. I note that Universe also spent a lot of time on Earth having pointless drama due to the communication stones. Unfortunately, they never bothered working out how the stones actually functioned; that is, whether the stones merely intercepted nerve signals going in and out of the brain, or somehow transmitted someone's mind. They seemed to be leaning towards the latter in some cases, but didn't realize how many problems that brings up.
The story I’ve always heard is that Steen claimed she had a family emergency and begged time off, so they rejiggered shooting to accommodate and *then* learned that her emergency was going to Burning Man. At which point they realized they couldn’t trust her, and, boom, gone.
Burning man? No, more like burning career
I mean too bad for her but i think i cant imagine another weir. Lol
Oh, I had such a crush on Elizabeth Weir!
Actual strong women who aren't bullies or entitled are terribly rare on television, and Weir was a great character with a great actress. I never understood why they felt the need to eliminate the character...
Recently re-watched Atlantis and i do agree the removal of the Asurans was to quick should have been in season 5, the wraith needed bigger bad guys like queen death from the novels.
Woolsey might have become the best commander of Atlantis given another season and all the characters and their relationships were evolving much more and better then sg-1.
I believe SGU went to far for the maturity and to quickly defently influenced by battlestar.
I’d say Lost was as big of influence on Universe. Especially in the pilot with the non linear storytelling.
Really curious about SG Universe retrospective, where MGM somehow fumbled a premise that could have run 10 seasons...
They started by taking a proposed show by someone who wasn't a fan of SG and persuading him to set it in that universe for the increased fan draw. Then they miffed making a plot for development, made characters who were unprofessional and often unlikeable, made most of the characters make stupid choices, turned the show into a soap opera in the worst sense of the term, didn't work out the details of how their science fiction worked... and didn't learn from their mistakes fast enough. SG-1 had some problems early on, but they learned fast and corrected errors rapidly. Universe doubled-down.
Sadly, Sam just didn’t work in SGA. They just fundamentally didn’t think it through: she can’t do any of her normal super-genius stuff because that would reflect badly in Rodney, and she can’t do any of her normal badass stuff because that would reflect badly on Sheppard. And she’s even second-bananna in All My Sins Remembered *because* taking command of the operation would reflect badly in Caldwell. So essentially she’s stuck behind a desk doing admin work all year, and occasionally getting trapped in a hole or an elevator. Both of those could have been done by anyone.
If people don’t see what the problem is with having Samantha goddamn Carter on the show for a year, and never firing a single bullet, nor using her scientific abilities….I don’t know what to tell them. Carter is one of the best female characters in all of SF, and here they make no use of her whatsoever.
we needed a proper ending season or movie, more than SGU
watching this has reminded me how angry I am that we never got a continuation of Atlantis, there was so much potential at the end of season 5, it was such a disappointment back then and has reopened the wound!
Yes the Stargate: Infinity(2002-2003) cartoon series and the Stargate: Origins(2018) web series, were both drasticly bad in there own ways. I will only say that as far as the computer games that tryed to provide Fans with a good Stargate gaming experience only Stargate: Timekeepers(2024) has found the right balance of fan service magic.
Atlantis is my favorite SG series. I have watched the whole thing more than 10 times, and still default to a choice few fairly often(Tao of Rodney, and the 3-part The Siege the most). I was lucky enough to meet David Hewlett and Jewel Staite at Shore Leave in 2008, and my photo with them is one of my prized possessions. I was devastated when it was canceled, and further when the movie never came to be.
Shepherd: "how are the weapons coming?"
McKay: "We couldn't hit the side of a barn."
Shepherd: "Well, compared to a hive ship, a barn is-"
McKay: "A GIANT, FLYING BARN! We couldn't hit that!"
15:53 I wouldn't called that as "ruthlesness", but as compassion.
I still feel robbed from season 6-7 of SGA.
No SGA movie as promised and a BSG rip off which is quite controversial.
Another thing i liked about Sheppard is he was a lot smarter than O'Neill, like Mensa smart.
O’Neill was faking his “dumbness” it slips through sometimes.
I've not rewatched Atlantis since it first aired, but watching the description of Ronon here, my first thought is Tyr Anasazi...
Less arrogant, less fixated on his own superiority. Otherwise... the similarities are startling.
Been waiting for this episode for so long and I have to watch later😢 it's 11.30pm and I got work at 4am
Sad I can't be here watching this with all the SG teams.
Thank you for all your hard work putting these videos together.
✌🏻 'n' ❤
I'm probably biased, bc I loved Robert Picardo in voyager, but I really liked him as Woolsey.
Robert Picardo is on a whole other level, the guy stole scene after scene in season 5, his scene talking about his fathers Alzheimer’s was incredible acting
@@Xathian yes, I always specifically remember that scene. There was so much bittersweet pain in his eyes and tone of voice.
Ahh Universe where they just threw up the title card, introduced the characters by blowing up a planet, and had younger edgier actors.
The way this is phrased makes it seem like Ark of Truth and Continuum take place after season 4. In terms of continuity, Ark takes place after the end of season 10 of SG1 and prior to the first episode of season 4 of SGA. Continuum takes place after the first episode of season 5 of SGA.
I am so pleased to see the many references to Eureka, from props to actors being in this show.
A the Eureka cast popped up in a lot of programs especially the ones by the Sci-fi channel. It was always fun spotting them. It would be cool to get a Eureka retrospective 😀
I personally never thought Shepard was ruthless in killing Sumner, I thought it was merciful.
I'm a huge SG1 fan and I liked Atlantis. I agree that SG1 was the superior show and that Atlantis became a bit aimless. Tbh, for me, it was a horrible shame that all three shows came to an end when they did. There was definitely still at least a season left to explore the Ori. As SG1 also had a dip around season 4/5, I think there's a good chance that Atlantis could have recovered too. With SGU, I think that it would have done better in a streaming era, when the whole season could have dropped and been binged in one go. It was too slow for week to week release. I think the situation also killed it with the fans because they believed SGU was being traded for SGA. I actually didn't watch SGU myself until a couple of years after its release and I really enjoyed it. I would have also loved to see more there.
Really, it's just crappy that a show like Supernatural got to plod on with nowhere near the same material to mine, while all these great shows got cancelled. It's also really crap that we are still waiting around for more. It's high time that we get something else with a genuine tie to the original shows. I just hope that whatever comes next is high quality and can survive in the new TV landscape. I mean, even Russell T Davies is uncertain about the future of Doctor Who at the moment. I miss the days of a loyal audience meaning something to execs.
Really seems with hindsight being what it is, that someone in management at SciFi was out to kill Stargate for seemingly personal reasons and they were successful. The shows were successful on TV, the movies were massive unexpected successes, and yet everything got cancelled for seemingly no reason. I was a huge fan when it came out and the only semi-understandable cancellation of Stargate Universe made any sense, and even then, I felt like that show was starting to get its footing as it started getting more light-hearted in the second season. And with the Sci-Fi channels changes in following years I am convinced executives at the helm were just out to kill the "nerdy" TV show so they could move onto their own visions.
According to the showrunners Sci-Fi were actually very supportive of both shows. Stargate's downfall had more to do with MGM's financial difficulties and the show's producers pivoting to a market which was about to evaporate. The Sci-Fi Channel, in this case, weren't at fault.
It was financials, not malice. Stargate was an expensive show, Atlantis even more so. Millions per episode. It was easier to shift from a 20 episode yearly season to an annual movie that only cost as much as 3-4 episodes. The problem was they cancelled the show to shift to that movie approach then MGM absolutely imploded in the process. Basically the entire company reshuffled and the people in charge after that weren't interested anymore.
Joe Flangan had a story he told at ComiCon about trying to save the show. He got a bunch of investors interested in buying the production rights to Atlantis to continue the show after the movie was stalled, heads at MGM during the restructure were interested in the idea and it was working out. Then MGM finalized their bankruptcy and fully restructured and everyone he had been making the deal negotiations with were no longer with the company. Killed the entire plan.
Honestly, I was kind of disappointed that McKay didn't make a Scanners reference when he became psychic. He could've at least made the face once during the episode or telekineticly pushed someone across the room. It would've been cool to see a Wraith's head blow up, tbh.
Vancouver dude here - the Pemberton Icefields (not glacier) aren't in Alaska - it's located nearby Pemberton BC (north of Whistler) . Picky but - yeah gotta rep Pemby proper.
41:26 Fun Fact: Tod means Death in German, arguably the most fitting Name for a Wraith.
It's pronounced completely differently though. And spelled differently too.
I watched SG-1 from the start, but SGA was the one where I got into the fandom aspect of it, mainly fanfiction. And I still miss a lot of things about that. While the show was good (at first) there was also a lot of space left by the narrative to expand in all directions. And I enjoyed the ones that focused on creating a future for/in the Pegasus Galaxy. One story that never actually got written, just the a setup chapter, still makes me kind of wish that it was a show I could have watched. The premise was that during the preparations for the expedition somebody pointed out that preparations for a trip where you know NOTHING about where you're going and if you would ever be able to get back would mean preparing to found a colony world. So they took seeds and trees and picked staff with relevant secondary skills AND practiced going through the Stargate a lot so they could use up every millisecond to get through as many resources as possible. To this day I cringe when watching the scene with Sheppard and Ford just standing talking around while the Stargate is already connected to Atlantis. This is also why the show's ending with Atlantis on earth just feels wrong. It needed to go back to the Pegasus galaxy.
The last season(s) also have a lot of bad stuff in it. I vaguely remember an episode with a "special all women!!" gate team that was incredibly bad and offensive. I also remember many people pointing out, that while in general the idea of Teal'c vs. Ronon is fun and the episodes had some good stuff in it, the exact way they did the scene with Ronon and Teal'c fighting/sparring is set up in a way that there are two men of color fighting for the entertainment of a bunch of white men standing around them (and betting). (And I can absolutely see how that scene came about without any bad intentions!, but it still has some bad vibes.)
I also still recall some disparaging comments from the showrunners at the end about the fans that absolutely made me feel unwanted. (not young and male enough, eh?)
That said, I still tried to watch Stargate Universe, but found it just simply unenjoyable.
All that said, it was incredibly fun to watch this video and be reminded of a lot of things I loved about the show, so that you for making it!
Nice work Rowan, looking forward already to the last part!
I do have a problem with videos on this channel: They are so well done that I want to rewatch the covered series, but I want spoil their story, so I can't watch the reviews in full. ;)
My favorite actor/actress on this show was Rachel Luttrell. Great actress and was cool having a native of the galaxy in such a central role. Makes me want to binge Atlantis again.
i always felt they showed the wraith too early season 1 should have ended with them being revealed
The best Stargate spin off after SG-1
Thank you so much for doing this for stargate! I always feel like in the wider audience there are only two Star sci fi universes, and I LOVE that my favorite show of all time is getting such loving treatment from you! Also, just in general you are VERY good at these long form videos, and if this is something that interests you (and supports you) enough, I believe you can find major success in this whole youtube thing. Like, you are just too good not be loved once the algorithm hits or whatever.
Worthy opponents on Atlantis were the replicator world which was developed far more than in SG1. Some great episodes.
My favourite Stargate series
Your retrospectives are easily my favorites. I actually just finished rewatching atlantis because I knew this was coming. Onto universe!
I loved the first season. But I stopped watching in the early-mid second season as the episodes became repetitive for a while. They were all, 'McKay is going to die! And only John Sheppard can save him!' Or 'John Sheppard is going to die! And only Rodney McKay can save him!' Or 'Rodney McKay and John Sheppard are going to die! And only by working together can they be saved!'
Fortunately I came back eventually and finished it and stayed with the show until the end. I did love it, despite my mid-second season abandonment for a while.
I love watching these retrospectives but man, it's a bummer realising that all of the series were screwed over and ended up canned before a proper finale kinda sucks and each new series ended worse off than the one before it.
Welcome to the club. Brown coats are over there.
It really is a cursed franchise. SG1 almost didn't get its closure if not for the hail mary with the movies. Atlantis didn't get its closure, Universe didn't come even close to any closure. Origins was an abomination that was student film tier production quality (if not dipping down to fan film tier). This franchise exists to invent incredible ideas and build amazing universes and then let them founder in endless dangling plot threads.
When you realize that this series ended in 2009, and that it was 15 years ago...
...the 2000s had a lot of great series, and it was the end of the era of appointment television.
With streaming, there are some good shows, but nothing to this level of quality. Given the state of Canada at the moment, we probably won't see anything like this again for a long, long time.
After Stargate ended I watched Fringe which was great as well
this video made me realise i didn't saw continuum , had to pause and them watch it
Rewatching Atlantis, I couldn't help but see some proto ideas for episodes that'd be redone in Stargate Universe
And sadly. Atlantis is where the small screen outing should have ended for Stargate. I could never get into Universe. It seemed to lack a lot of what the other shows were an tried too hard to be something it wasn't, in my opinion. I re-watch SG1 and Atlantis when I am not re-watching B5 or binge watching movies. I have older Star Trek on almost everyday at some point.
Universe is an odd one, it's a tonal mess that is just NOT Stargate, but I kept going back because even as a failure of Stargate I think there was a nugget of something in there toward the end, I feel like it could have become something good, even if it was good but not really Stargate. I also liked some of the actors. Louis Ferreira was very interesting to me, I feel he portrayed leadership in a dire situation very well. I feel David Blue was a very relatable person for the average "nerdy fan" watching the franchise back in those days (pre-modern "nerd culture") and Robert Carlyle is just great whenever a camera is pointed at him.
No need to bother with the SGU. It needs to be retcon'd out of the cannon. It killed stargate, was and still is unliked by fans(it's premier did less than a SG1 repeat the same week) and is at its very best is derivative of BSG at its worst turns into some sort of teen drama.
disagree completely, is it flawed- yes, but i loved the characters. it did feel forced sometimes and needlessly dragged out - still think it shouldve continued to redeem itself
Completely agree. It was far too much of a departure in tone, the characters were unlikeable and it was a very unoriginal riff on BSG.
You didn't mention the full frontal nudity in the pilot. I'm 100% joking this time I hope you have already read my backtrack on my SG-1 comment.
Fantastic work Rowan, thank you.
It took real time travel from Atlantis to Earth to get this video.
Excellent retrospective. Would buy you a beer at the pub if we shared a neighborhood
RIP the late great Julian Sands.
Unfortunately, this is where I get off the train. This is not a subtraction from your review, all of which even for movies I've either disliked or never watched. SGA really does start to tumble midway through season 4 just after the destruction of the Replicators and then nosedives further in season 5. Ultimately speaking, SG-1's cancellation had been the writing on the wall for years, yet the story was satisfyingly resolved even if there were still threads leftover.
Atlantis on the other hand I can't extend this grace to, the story is unfinished and startlingly breaks their own established rules constantly through the 4th and 5th season. No beaming with your own shields up was completely arbitrary and never mentioned to be an issue before Season 5's "Search and Rescue". Atlantis' shields being impenetrable while powered was broken twice - During the Lost Tribe and Series finale. The series finale was setup and executed entirely because the show wasn't renewed and the writers did such a poor job putting the Wraith in the position to reach Earth they had to trump up a ZPM powered freak of a hiveship (which doesn't solve the previously estabishlished 'not an intergalactic hyperdrive' explanation) that got the coordinates for Earth from a paraelle universe broadcast that had already crossed the void between galaxies (3 million lightyears), I cannot make this crap up.
A-team Syndrome was fairly bad in SG-1 but significantly worse for Atlantis. The show also switches from fairly grounded modern live action Sci-Fi, to full on Star Trek lookalike with most of the same issues, including hard resets at the end of episodes. Atlantis is supposed to be a multimillion year old ship that hasn't been tended to for thousand upon thousand of years, the crew beat the crap out of it constantly and other than a handwave explanation in Season 3 when the Replicators briefly control it to repair it, lasting damage isn't even mentioned again until Season 5 - referencing the flooding from Season 1's the Storm/Eye 2 parter (which should've been fixed by the Replicators).
I like Atlantis but I make no attempt to hide the fact that I think SG-1 is the better show, by a significant margin. The ratings overall show this as well, the highest scoring episode for Atlantis is a 9.2 (Be All My Sins Remember'd) with only two other episodes making 9.0 or higher: Season 4's Midway, and Season 5's First Contact. Neither of which I think are deserved, SGA's best episode is Season 3's finale First Strike (which doesn't even score the highest rating that season), and two episodes actually worthy of a 9.0+ being S3E01 No Man's Land, and S01E15... which is a clipshow no less, Before I Sleep. Sg1 on the other hand, only gets 2 9.0+'s in its first 5 seasons: Season 2's the Fifth Race, and Season 4's Window of Opportunity. However, where SG1 succeeds where SGA fails was capturing Lightning in a bottle, twice. Season 7's The Lost City part 2 ties for the highest rated episode of Stargate ever made, a 9.5, tied with Window of Opportunity. SG1 has 3 complete story arcs, even if the Ori arc was cut short, it was complete. I cannot judge what isn't there, Atlantis has... zero complete arcs. The Pegasus Galaxy as of the end of Atlantis is still firmly in control by the Wraith, even if their presence has been weakened. The Atlantis Expidition is now stranded on Earth in the San Francisco bay no less, with seemingly no way to return. The BS wormhole drive pulled from thinair in the final episode burnt out after one use and they establish this: You cannot dial any Stargate in the Pegasus Galaxy except for the one with the control crystal that allows 8 symbole addresses... which is embedded in the Atlantis computer systems now stranded in California with 3 nearly depleted ZPMs on the inside of the Golden Gate Bridge. Also just to really piss on the ashes, they destroyed the Ancient Outpost Command chair/weapons platform in the same episode, which means the only one left that can fire drones is the one on Atlantis, which is, as I have mentioned... stranded on Earth. The IOA is *never* going to let it go since they need it to defend Earth, the novels can screw off.
Atlantis ultimately leaves Stargate at is absolute lowest state: the SGC/Homeworld Command/IOA is completely cutoff from Pegasus with a bloodied but not defeated enemy licking its wounds and biding its time, with no way back except by starship and no ZPMs to power them, an entirely decimated Earth defense system that cannot be replaced, and a city sized starship waiting for its cloak to fail in a spot that it cannot be moved from.
So I ask this. All for what? So that we could get SGU? Stargate Universe is quite frankly an embrassment and then Brad Wright had the audicty to blame the fans for its failure, which is what it is, a failure through and through. 2 seasons and canceled - and absolutely deserved. Atlantis and Sg-1's weakest seasons are opposites: Sg-1's season 1 is the weakest, Atlantis season 5 is the weakest. SGU's weakest seasons are the fact that story even got a second season, period. Unlikable characters, non-sense plots, and melodrama, so, so much melodrama.
Funnily enough the show that deserved more seasons was the one that needed it the least: SG-1. As a proper wrap up to the Ori arc would've been better suited than a 6th season of Atlantis. Additionally, while midway is awesome I can't shake the feeling the destruction of the Midway space station was entirely for the reason that the SG-1 sets had been disassembled from the show's cancellation. There was no point to having it if there's no walking to and from another studio anymore. An additional season of Sg-1 would've meant another year's overlap with Atlantis which should've been the send off for SG-1 to hand the show over to Atlantis going forwards, even if it was only for one more year.
I really like SG Atlantis. There is something really interesting in vampire like undead zerg creature. Cosmic horrors. SG-1 took place in earth base, Earth was always well defended. While Atlantis fight for survive since day one, literally. Against hordes of enemies that killed ancients. Without even power to fly away, travel back home, or to defend. And slowly girinding their way to defeat Wraiths and Replicators. Also, i like Shep, McKay, Teala and Ronon.