I found many people are thinking that smaller frames are always better for downhill/trails they rather use like a S frame size for shorter reach and chainstays it doesnt occur to them that their riding position hurts on long runs.
Tire pressure followed by bar width. But he's right on all of them. There's no magically perfect numbers to fit all riders so it's find what works best for you.
I tried 800 and I liked it, but started to hit trees all the time. Recently did a cut to 785. Haven't ridden it yet, but hopefully it will be enough to pass the narrow trees sections
I hate the continually lower bottom bracket trends, I'm sure it's fine for bike park but where I ride is very rocky with technical climbs and pedal strikes are getting harder and harder to avoid.
yep I went from a 120mm XC 175mm cranks analog to 170mm ebike 165mm cranks and oof 1st ride like 5 pedal strikes I blame the motor weight and travel because the BB non sitting on the bike are at the same height, that said switched to 155mm cranks which works fine on a ebike and help but don't even try on an analoge 165mm never gave me weird effects and I drive a good 25% in OFF and 40% in ECO but with the 155mm I cannot get the bike moving from a stop in a 20% climb even with spd clips 155 i have to turn the crank in the good angle and then I can get that 1st crank going dont go below 165 on analog
Bar width, rotor size, and tire pressure should all be based on the size/weight of the rider just as much as frame size is. Wide bars are better, but if you are only 4 feet tall then 700mm bars are probably pretty wide. If you weigh over 200lbs then 180mm rotors are tiny. There is no universal "best" when it comes to sizing.
i have to say the wide bars one is fully true. When i started riding i rode 800s, but as i progressed i eventually ended up cutting them down to 755, which feels sick on big jumps and allows you to throw the bike around a lot more 👍
I am 6'2 with wide shoulders. My XL bike came with 780 bars. I changed them to 800 with a higher rise and it feels a little more natural. I like the wider bars too because of jack knife resistance. That extra leverage helps keep the wheel straight on rocks and roots.
At 6'2" you'd probably be wanting 800s anyway, that's probably about your natural shoulder width. 780s are super common because that is about the natural shoulder width for a 5'10" man.
2:49 ive found that bigger rotors are espicially helpful to make cheap brakes more powerful, and its usally cheaper to upgrade your rotors than upgrade your entire brakeset
On the other end, there's also no need to buy good brakes and pads, and then choose small rotors. I have an Omnium, which has a203mm front, 180mm rear, running Saints, but I have another omnium frame on order which will have Maxima brakes mated to a 223mm front and 203mm rear rotor. I will be running sintered pads in the Maximas too.
Regarding Soft pressures, it also creates more resistance when climbing. Sometimes I might have higher pressures if I am going on longer flatter boring rides, but when I hit the downhill reduce the pressure for more grip.
People often forget to mention stem length will affect how wide you need. Too long and too wide will make your bike feel like steering a bus, if you have too short and too narrow the bike will feel squirrelly.
I cut my bars down to 680 due to excessive pain from a broken elbow from a mtn bike crash about 25 years ago. Anything wider escalates the pain pretty quick. Plus tree gaps in the woods are important when you aren’t riding in a manicured bike park.
Interesting hearing you run 760’s on the bars, had this on previous bars handy for tight navigation between trees and not hugely different from the 780 bar I have now. Too many bashed rims to risk too low pressure in tyres, great info thanks Rich and GMBN! 😁🤙
I was once told that pumping your handlebar is the same action as a press-up. As such, if you measure the width of your hands in your ideal press-up position, that should match your ideal bar width. I've tried this on my current bike, and it seems to hold up very well. Maybe it's just the type of riding I do??
It's an excellent rule of thumb, but if you ride fast and open trails, you may want to go a touch wider, if you ride in places with tight trees, you'll NEED to go narrower! There's certainly a happy ballpark.
you should just stp listening to people & maybe THINK about the physics & circumstances. do you have a wheel & fork geometries & behaviors beneath you when doing a push-up?? NO!! Also the EASIEST hand position for a push-up would be the narrowest possible (if you are weak). compared to a good mtb riding position when pumping/absorbing then your arms would be holding a mid-pushup position. Now. go hold yourself in a mid push-up position for 30 seconds. I will say hand position will be wider than your 'comfy' regular push up position.
also to add I ride pump track A LOT and any trail that can be pumped I will pump the absolute sh*t out of it whenever possible. I ride a short travel (135mm) trail bike with 760mm bars. I'm very broad shoulder but short in height- 780 would be better 'pushup' strength but will be too wide for cornering due too my short arms.
We always used to say get down and give me ten, then measure the distance across the outside of your hands, as it is your strongest position. I've been riding 30 years, I have tried the super wide but on big downhill drops always felt weaker, less in control, and more likely to crumple into the bars /stem, so started cutting the bars down again. I also noticed the longer bars amplified the movement at the wheel. I like to run extra length grips and move the brake levers inboard, to allow me to move my hand position along the bars as well. On the MX front, there is no such option available as in throttle tubes are all one length and with my spades I would love and extra 15mm in grip length.
I run Hope 6ti callipers on one of my bikes, had them 20 years and they are still going strong. They're so old though that there are no adapters available for modern forks, and I can't use a 203mm rotor at all. After a lot of trial and error I found that I could use a 225mm with a modified adapter, but 6 pot callipers and a huge rotor can put you over the bars if you're not careful 😅
I agree on everything Rich has said. I've been riding for a very long time and narrower bars are my preference. Yes to bar risers, especially for the downhill sections, although even on the flats I feel like I'm way to leaned over. Now don't get me started on low BB! They may be great on smooth trails but horrible on technical rocky terrain where you can't easily back peddle. I have my preference for suspension set up, but that is really dependent on the terrain you ride, speed, etc, so to each their own. Bottom line, play around with all the set up and find what works best for you, not what came out of the box.
I’m 6 feet tall with wide shoulders and rode 810mm bars for a few years and noticed a lot of shoulder and neck pain . 780 or 785 is the sweet spot on my trail bike and 760 on my dj bike . I also noticed at 810mm I had a lot of trouble pulling the front end up on jumps and bunny hops .
as a bigger rider at a little over 100kg I do like having bigger rotors with metallic pads for the confidence of knowing I can slow down or stop whenever. pros suspension by the numbers sound stiff but when you look at them rid I think it just looks so active and soft and supple
Now that’s an interesting but said at the end. Riding with high rise bars allows you to run softer suspension in the front to compensate for the diving… that is really cool!
Id still say the longer geometry is an overall win. Its lead to bikes that handle descents better. In turn, this has encouraged more and more descent oriented trails. Descents are the best part of MTB in my opinion so I very happy bikes got slacker. As for bars, I run 760. I'm 5'10" and mostly ride downhill on a trail bike. I stick to flowy jump lines usually since I like living.
i ride a hardtail with similar geo to that sick bike, 63 degree HTA, 78 degree STA, 510 reach, 1282 wheelbase. it's pretty great. i could honestly go longer. i have no idea why 500-ish reach is "long" on a mountain bike. my road bikes have a similar reach when you measure them saddle to bars. they're shorter on paper, but that doesn't count the stem.
@@arachnophilia427 Depends on how tall you are. 500mm reach is ridiculous if you're 5'10", your steering will be ridiculously vague since you'll be on the back of the bike. As a 5'10" rider I find the 475~ish reach range to be the sweet spot for me. I've ridden bikes in the 490-500 range and I always felt like I was too far on the back of the bike even in a neutral riding position. 500 reach, sure if you're over 6'
Thanks you for the informative vid. My bars finally found the middle ground for me . Thanks again for the content looking forward to more stay safe and 🍻 cheers
Handlebars with a width of Mode than 600 mm were forbidden by UCI in XC races in the 80th and 90th. The reason was to make overpassing easier. With the right skills it is possible to ride tecnical trails with these small bars.
Sick bicycles - a bunch of south coast tattoo artists who were well on board the hype train. It's interesting to note that quite a few of us guys in FOD have been chopping in our Geometrons for 160/140mm trail bikes, just because we want a bit more playfulness on the trails. Still quite accomplished and equally fun when its flatter.
Just got a digital pressure gauge from Santa and found all of my pressures much lower than I thought. Both my shock pump and track pump gauges are well out of speck. I have set my pressures using my new gage and my set up is feels really hard. Not had chance to ride out yet but I'm very interested to see if I have inproved things or made it worse
That's why I generally prefer using the sag reading to set-up my suspension over the actual pressures. I only ever use the shock pump gauge to know when I'm close-ish and need to measure the sag. Plus, the gauge is only useful for inflating the shock or fork and you can't really effectively check it with a gauge (because you change the volume of the air chamber when you connect the pump, subsequently reducing the pressure in the air spring.)
heat dissipation, bigger rotors are bigger heatsinks and the rear brake still takes most of the heat loading on a long DH run, especially in steeps. Even pros will drag the rear brake to control speed on steeps.
So after a long, long period of name discussion we went with Riley. What do you think? Thank you for all the incredible suggestions- there were some absolute gems in there and some great laughs too!
Manufacturers are still pushing the lower, longer, and slacker is better trend, just look how slack current XC bikes are, they're basically short travel trail bikes, which is nuts, not everyone wants or needs a slack bike
Longer lower slacker until MTB geo matches moto which figured this stuff out nearly 50 years ago for off road two wheelers. We need freedom from the roadie weight weenies!!!
My first MTB had 680 mil bars, and I'm still getting used to the new bike that doesn't fit through technical gaps I used to ride with ease. Much better chainring clearance on the new 1x drivetrain though, lol.
That mountain biking vids are shot in one run. The cooler the vid, the more takes, and then it is stitched together in editing. Don’t try to emulate your favorite vid the first time down some trail.
I was always told If you have outside hand pressure means bar are to wide ? Also inside hand pressure bars are to narrow ? Thoughts ? I’m 5’6” seems my ideal bar width is between 740-750 wide.
Ha har I've just got to pressures!....well Rich you have not talked about plus size yet but I'll put money on you getting there!..I run 2.8" tires on my 63deg head angle and they are brilliant. my biggest complaint is that after a while the side walls get sort and start puncturing but ride damping is phenomenal and the traction is immense.
I don't have "easy mode" single trail bike parks I do up to 60miles 5500ft up the mountain on roads and hard ground then descent wherever I feel like it sometimes in difficult pedestrian hiking trails never meant for bicycle sometimes freeriding in the forest dropper post was a huge game changer for me I have 50% slopes descents followed almost immediatrely by a 20% climb before dropper I had to stop lower my seat to not go over the bar on the descent then stop at the bottom raise the seat because you can't pedal up 20% like a hobbit, people who don't think it's useful aren't cyclists
Overly wide bars I agree with. Dissing my 62° Hello Dave's natural predecessor is not nice! No personal disrespect Rich, but until you send one of those bikes down an evil chute, you'll never understand 🤣 I'm the same height, 6', and that frame in the XL size is perfect. With a steel frame with that geo, anything downhill is easy and comfortable. The compliance in the frame is properly noticeable if you're used to riding aluminium hardtails regularly, it feels superb. You're welcome to give mine a try any time 👍❤️
I ran 610mm for years after over-cutting my bar I had a lot of shoulder and hand pain from that and needless to say it's very involved on enduro trails if you do XC and mix flat climb and descent narrow works no problem but yeah don't go too low >< and if you're going to do enduro dh or bike park avoid >
@fredEVOIX thank you for the thoughtful response its really helpful. I'm 6'3 running a 665mm bar. it measures a bit wider with the bar ends on. Its an XC hardtail. Im a long time commuter/roadie having a good time on gravel roads. no enduro or down hill for me. espcially at my age and with my injury history.
they absolutely do >< have an xc analog 2016 175mm cranks I do tour de france cat1 or hc category climbs on it no problem, bought an ebike 165mm cranks never noticed anything because of the motor but when i switched to 155 every single time i stop mid climb and i do nasty ones 20-30-48% on it there's no way I can get that 1st crank to move the ebike unless the crank lever is in a good angle I can push my 220lbs on it all I want it's not moving unless I have the right angle, can't imagine that on my analog bike I'm keeping my 175mm levers
Longer, lower, and slacker is the trend that needs to come to an end. It's no wonder you see so many riders going over the bars. They are not able to keep the front end up and are getting pulled forward.
Less that and more false confidence and getting in over their head. Slacker bikes are more forgiving of less than perfect line choice, but also encourage you to send it bigger. Most OTBs I see in fail vids are still primarily bad line choice or lack of speed control and clapping the fork in the wrong spot. My first full sus had a 67 degree HTA and a very short wheelbase, I would be far more worried about OTBing on that bike than my current bike which has a 64.4 degree HTA and a medium-long wheelbase. On the old bike I could look down and see my back tire when descending steeps, the new bike is much more balanced in the steep stuff.
@mrvwbug4423 Yeah, and most mountain biking isn't done on the steep stuff. So DH specific bikes, great. But all other bikes, they don't need to be long, low, and slack. At least not to the extremes we are seeing these days.
My last three bikes I've gone from a 65.5 head angle, to 66.5, to 67.3, and the 67.3 feels the best, the front end feels more confidence inspiring, like it has more grip while cornering, plus it can still handle steep double blacks too, I hope the bike doesn't eventually wear out because I doubt that I'll be able to buy a short travel trail bike with its geometry numbers ever again.
I’m 5’-11 3/4” tall. 34” inseam. 23” arms. 15.5” lower leg. Normal to narrow shoulders. And want a neutral riding position. So I think I need/want a bike for 5’-11” to 6’ male rider for my height, with shorter reach and shorter effective top tube for my short arms, 165mm cranks for my short upper leg/long lower leg. And likely not so long bars. That combination seems impossible to get on a new bike without significant part swapping and right now what might fit is not easily available.
430 mm reach for a small is tooo long for a 5ft 6 rider still im liking the new specialised stumpy at 400 mm reach. However i have a santa cruz bronson xs at 385mm, onone deedar at 395 mm, cube sting at 398 mm a giant reign at 410mm feels like a barge a cube stereo 160 at 408mm all at 35mm stem on the long reach frames and 40 mm on the shorter reach frames however the stereo and reign im looking to mullet to kick the reach back slightly
Bigger rotors will absolutely give you more braking power, but it’s never been an issue for me. I’d suggest a lot of riders would do better to work on grip strength instead, which has the added benefit of preventing hand/forearm exhaustion
@@bchearne quite silly to present it at the video that bigger rotors don't always give more power. Because they do. Always. Brobably the cheapest way to get more power.
Sorry to be the multi paragraph guy Couple of takes. The handle bars is weird because I use to have 800 on my moto and didn’t feel weird on a bike. I have long since reduced to a 780. And feels better. And gave up riding moto! Except pit bikes! The big brake rotors are great on e bikes. Went 220 front and back!just feels better! And more controlled descending. And lastly the pros suspension. Thee was an article years ago in decline magazine and they did ride the pros suspension set ups. The article showed what their set ups were and when ridden by the regular rider is was super stiff! And uncomfortable! And one suspension guy said the rides don’t ride like this all the time the whole week at a race. They slowly make adjustments for the one time race run! And that’s what jabronies have to realize!
Long story short ...biking is about being in the optimum range ...there is no ever increasing better . And in mtb geometry and suspension its always a compromise
Regarding the brake rotors I run 203s at both ends, I prefer having less lever effort and have zero issues modulating the rear brake even with the 203 back there. Probably has to do with years of riding sportbikes which tend to have very light effort on their brakes. With the big brakes on both ends I also find I don't have a lot of issues with hand fatigue or arm pump during bike park days. I think in terms of geo, it does come down to the individual bike, but things are getting a bit much on some enduro bikes. My main bike is a 2023 RM Altitude which I feel is about the perfect enduro bike, small enough to be reasonably nimble, burly enough to be confident even in twin crown territory. I demoed the 2024 Altitude and it feels like a barge, sure it's confident and plush as long as you're going straight, but feels ponderous when things get tight. I also demoed a Transition Spire, which is comparable to the 2024 Altitude in length and even slacker, but actually feels smaller when riding it just because it has a less front biased riding position, though the Spire also encourages you to ride like an absolute hooligan haha.
All the stupid misconceptions about mountain bikes started in the mid 2000's, and most of them are completely wrong. I have been shredding the trails in the U. S. and Canada for 30 years. I've done cross country, and DH racing, dual slalom, and freestyle competitions. I have a custom modified 8 sp. 1997 Specialized FSR, and a custom modified 9 sp. 2002 Marin Team DH. I always had handle bars 24 in. wide, 26 in. tires with a min. of 30 psi, and 15 in. bottom bracket height, and head angle of 67 degrees. I still have both of them, and ride them all the time. i could never ride the modern bikes, I've tried, but find it too unfamiliar. Probably because It's a matter of habit. Most of the new products, bike brands, and technologies are just bullshit marketing to make them more money.
So glad he mentioned Sick Bikes with a 62° HA hardtail. It really makes zero sense and it's impossible to ride a bike like that! That being said, I love my Hello Dave :D
Yeah "enduro hardtails" are ridiculous. Slapping a 160 or 170 fork on a hardtail is just going to be super unbalanced under compression. IMHO rowdy hardtails kinda top out at 140 travel with trail bike geo, past that hardtails don't even make sense.
someone forgot to tell my 160 mm single speed, mullet hard tail that it is supposed to be unbalanced and not ride properly. I’ve ridden it with 120, 130, 150, and 160mm forks on it, and it is an absolute blast that still climbs well and rails corners on singletrack with ease running a 160. Never feels out of balance or unstable. And that’s even running the adjustable dropouts as far forward as I can while still keeping tension on the chain.
Sorry but NO......More mainstream mischief.....I ride a Hello Dave sick bikes successor and its great!!!! my main full sus ride is a 63deg head angle and its great my ebike is 65deg and it could be slacker for my liking......what does all that mean, there is more than one way to skin a cat. not every 63deg head angle is going to be great for what you want or are used too, its the combinations that matter!
In other words, the bike industry marketers got away with lying and fleecing its consumer base by pushing bigger and better. I saw this horseshit , just that horseshit a long time ago. Most fell for it, now we have redicucles assinine prices for way overbiked crap bikes. I finally upgraded my bike after 9 seasons because I got a crazy good deal through a local shop. I got a nice in the middle pack frame of an aluminum Kona gen 3 process 134. Not to steep not to slack, no crazy over travel. Just right. With a base build kit. I have a strong frame base for future upgrades as needed.
@@PabloGonzalez-hv3td More pressure does *_NOT_* automatically mean less rolling resistance. There is an optimal pressure for each rider/bike/tire combo and it's not going to be the max tire pressure your tire can accept. Here is what Schwalbe has to say about it: *_Off road it is exactly the reverse: The lower the inflation pressure, the lower the rolling resistance. This applies equally on hard gravel roads and soft forest tracks. Explanation: A tire with low inflation pressure can adapt better to a rugged surface. It sinks into the ground less and the whole rotational mass is held back much less by the uneven surface._*
Sorry but I'm all in on big rotors. There is nothing worse than the feeling of creeping over a steep rock roll and finding that no matter how hard you squeeze the lever, you still keep going faster. When this happens, you experience loss of control and everything else goes to hell in the panic even if you are a competent rider. I'd much rather have grabby brakes and develop the sensitivity needed to modulate them than to be in a situation where I can't completely stop the rotation. And yeah, I realize I could just get better brakes. But a bigger rotor is a much cheaper upgrade. Though I would agree that you should try a sintered pad compound first.
This was you guys just a year or so ago… bigger rotors are of course better, wider bars of course are better. ua-cam.com/video/CfYiXoJq76Y/v-deo.htmlsi=foDehxOTM078bvez
@@50whatnomadtravelnursemtb5 that in the bike scene it's okayish computer hardware influencers are 10x worse at least here they actually ride, most pc tech tubers don't game but talk like they are an authority on gaming performance
lol i don´t fall 4 29" Bikes a hole time i ride my 26" still and i test it my self i have a 29" bike and i ride my house course 2 times 59Km and my 26" Bike was faster than the 29" bike [Harttail both] 59Km 26" 03h:17min, 18,0 km/h, 980m Up hill 3Bar < -Tires Schwalbe Smart sam 2,1 29" 03h:24min, 17,1 km/h, 990m Up hill 2,7 Bar
@@SolidxSnakexDuke Your 26er has easier gearing by virtue of wheel size (gear ratio is the same). Put a 32 or 30 on the front of the 29er and climb the same hill.
@myrants586 Having tried both in the last two years, muller is faster and more comfortable on heavier trail, enduro, and DH riding. There’s videos with pro bike testers that concluded mullet was faster and more fun.
29ers are undisputibly better for anything short of a DH bike, or big enduro bike. Unless you're really short. 29ers simply roll through chunk faster, pedal more efficiently and have a larger contact patch with the tire. Mullets are for when you're on a huge bike and want a little more agility. Full 27.5 honestly doesn't even really have a place on park bikes anymore. 26 is for dirt jumpers or people riding old school bikes.
@mrvwbug4423 Does make me chuckle when I read that. All of that is industry fed rubbish. I've owned so many mountain bikes across the years. 26/27.5/29. 29ers 'rolling over' stuff better is a myth. I saw ZERO difference between my 26ers and 29ers in terms of roll over capabilities. Also, the other utter myth of a larger contact patch giving more grip needs addressing. A bigger contact patch only serves to distribute your weight over a wider area. The result of this is the tyre digging into the ground less and even less grip. I've never experienced such a lack of front end grip than I did on my 29er. The most bite and grip I ever had was on my 26ers. The fact is we all absolutely flew down the trails on 26er with no issues whatsoever. The fastest most fun bikes I have owned were 26ers. It was the industry that pushed bigger wheel sizes because it had run out of ideas of what to sell next. One of the reasons I stopped mountain biking is that i could no longer buy the bike I wanted. If I could buy a 26er with modern (not over the top) geo I would chomp at the bit.
If you think a bigger wheel doesn’t roll over obstacles more efficiently than a smaller wheel then you’re not questioning bikes, you’re questioning physics and math. If you think 26” is better than 29”, ate you saying that 26” is the most perfect t wheel size out there? Maybe you should try a 24” or a 20”. If you haven't tried it, how do know? Of you gave up mountain biking because you can’t find any 26” bikes, then you gave up too easy… see Prevelo or Woom or any custom bike frame maker.
Wide bars... BS Dropper posts......BS Setting up your bike like a pro rider's bike that the guy is being paid to ride for 5 mins....... BS Just my opinion. Do what suits you and your wallet and have fun.
Has Rich missed any? What are your favourite MTB or cycling misconceptions?
I found many people are thinking that smaller frames are always better for downhill/trails they rather use like a S frame size for shorter reach and chainstays it doesnt occur to them that their riding position hurts on long runs.
Tire pressure followed by bar width. But he's right on all of them. There's no magically perfect numbers to fit all riders so it's find what works best for you.
Wide bars on forest trails can be tricky as you can easily hit the trees in some sections when you pass through narrow gaps.
Done that myself and ended up “circumcising” my bars!
I like my bar size 740mm but the wider bars to like to hit things
Exactly.
I tried 800 and I liked it, but started to hit trees all the time. Recently did a cut to 785. Haven't ridden it yet, but hopefully it will be enough to pass the narrow trees sections
I love 800 but It's a mind fcuk. Carrying good speed only halt splitting trees. At times it was necessary but often not.
I hate the continually lower bottom bracket trends, I'm sure it's fine for bike park but where I ride is very rocky with technical climbs and pedal strikes are getting harder and harder to avoid.
yep I went from a 120mm XC 175mm cranks analog to 170mm ebike 165mm cranks and oof 1st ride like 5 pedal strikes I blame the motor weight and travel because the BB non sitting on the bike are at the same height, that said switched to 155mm cranks which works fine on a ebike and help but don't even try on an analoge 165mm never gave me weird effects and I drive a good 25% in OFF and 40% in ECO but with the 155mm I cannot get the bike moving from a stop in a 20% climb even with spd clips 155 i have to turn the crank in the good angle and then I can get that 1st crank going dont go below 165 on analog
Bar width, rotor size, and tire pressure should all be based on the size/weight of the rider just as much as frame size is.
Wide bars are better, but if you are only 4 feet tall then 700mm bars are probably pretty wide.
If you weigh over 200lbs then 180mm rotors are tiny.
There is no universal "best" when it comes to sizing.
"that come and go, quicker than steel frame startups"
this video is off to a good start lol
Glad you liked that little one 😅
i have to say the wide bars one is fully true. When i started riding i rode 800s, but as i progressed i eventually ended up cutting them down to 755, which feels sick on big jumps and allows you to throw the bike around a lot more 👍
Chip and potato.
I've honestly got no idea how wide my bars are!
I am 6'2 with wide shoulders. My XL bike came with 780 bars. I changed them to 800 with a higher rise and it feels a little more natural. I like the wider bars too because of jack knife resistance. That extra leverage helps keep the wheel straight on rocks and roots.
At 6'2" you'd probably be wanting 800s anyway, that's probably about your natural shoulder width. 780s are super common because that is about the natural shoulder width for a 5'10" man.
2:49 ive found that bigger rotors are espicially helpful to make cheap brakes more powerful, and its usally cheaper to upgrade your rotors than upgrade your entire brakeset
I never thought of that. Thank you !
On the other end, there's also no need to buy good brakes and pads, and then choose small rotors. I have an Omnium, which has a203mm front, 180mm rear, running Saints, but I have another omnium frame on order which will have Maxima brakes mated to a 223mm front and 203mm rear rotor. I will be running sintered pads in the Maximas too.
Yes they are. And bigger does offer more power. Always. There's no "but" in the matter.
Regarding Soft pressures, it also creates more resistance when climbing. Sometimes I might have higher pressures if I am going on longer flatter boring rides, but when I hit the downhill reduce the pressure for more grip.
The same here..
People often forget to mention stem length will affect how wide you need. Too long and too wide will make your bike feel like steering a bus, if you have too short and too narrow the bike will feel squirrelly.
From my experience in motor racing is that bigger rotors are not as sensitive to heat soak and will disapate it better
I cut my bars down to 680 due to excessive pain from a broken elbow from a mtn bike crash about 25 years ago. Anything wider escalates the pain pretty quick. Plus tree gaps in the woods are important when you aren’t riding in a manicured bike park.
When I started riding MTB in"97, my XC hardtail had 540 mm flatbars.
I always preferred 24 in. riser bars, like Easton CT2 Monkey Lite carbon fiber .
probably with bar ends too, bar ends were great for standing climbs and sprints
I ride 780 bars and i like them but i may cut them down to 760 for a bit more playful feel
Interesting hearing you run 760’s on the bars, had this on previous bars handy for tight navigation between trees and not hugely different from the 780 bar I have now. Too many bashed rims to risk too low pressure in tyres, great info thanks Rich and GMBN! 😁🤙
Thanks for watching 🤘
I was once told that pumping your handlebar is the same action as a press-up. As such, if you measure the width of your hands in your ideal press-up position, that should match your ideal bar width.
I've tried this on my current bike, and it seems to hold up very well. Maybe it's just the type of riding I do??
It's an excellent rule of thumb, but if you ride fast and open trails, you may want to go a touch wider, if you ride in places with tight trees, you'll NEED to go narrower! There's certainly a happy ballpark.
you should just stp listening to people & maybe THINK about the physics & circumstances. do you have a wheel & fork geometries & behaviors beneath you when doing a push-up?? NO!! Also the EASIEST hand position for a push-up would be the narrowest possible (if you are weak). compared to a good mtb riding position when pumping/absorbing then your arms would be holding a mid-pushup position. Now. go hold yourself in a mid push-up position for 30 seconds. I will say hand position will be wider than your 'comfy' regular push up position.
also to add I ride pump track A LOT and any trail that can be pumped I will pump the absolute sh*t out of it whenever possible. I ride a short travel (135mm) trail bike with 760mm bars. I'm very broad shoulder but short in height- 780 would be better 'pushup' strength but will be too wide for cornering due too my short arms.
We always used to say get down and give me ten, then measure the distance across the outside of your hands, as it is your strongest position. I've been riding 30 years, I have tried the super wide but on big downhill drops always felt weaker, less in control, and more likely to crumple into the bars /stem, so started cutting the bars down again. I also noticed the longer bars amplified the movement at the wheel. I like to run extra length grips and move the brake levers inboard, to allow me to move my hand position along the bars as well. On the MX front, there is no such option available as in throttle tubes are all one length and with my spades I would love and extra 15mm in grip length.
All else equal: Bigger rotors do produce more braking power.
I run Hope 6ti callipers on one of my bikes, had them 20 years and they are still going strong. They're so old though that there are no adapters available for modern forks, and I can't use a 203mm rotor at all. After a lot of trial and error I found that I could use a 225mm with a modified adapter, but 6 pot callipers and a huge rotor can put you over the bars if you're not careful 😅
Bike shop mech here. These points are why I always say “generally” when describing upgrade performance.
Thanks for the clarity!
Glad it was helpful!
I agree on everything Rich has said. I've been riding for a very long time and narrower bars are my preference. Yes to bar risers, especially for the downhill sections, although even on the flats I feel like I'm way to leaned over. Now don't get me started on low BB! They may be great on smooth trails but horrible on technical rocky terrain where you can't easily back peddle. I have my preference for suspension set up, but that is really dependent on the terrain you ride, speed, etc, so to each their own. Bottom line, play around with all the set up and find what works best for you, not what came out of the box.
I’m 6 feet tall with wide shoulders and rode 810mm bars for a few years and noticed a lot of shoulder and neck pain . 780 or 785 is the sweet spot on my trail bike and 760 on my dj bike . I also noticed at 810mm I had a lot of trouble pulling the front end up on jumps and bunny hops .
as a bigger rider at a little over 100kg I do like having bigger rotors with metallic pads for the confidence of knowing I can slow down or stop whenever. pros suspension by the numbers sound stiff but when you look at them rid I think it just looks so active and soft and supple
Now that’s an interesting but said at the end. Riding with high rise bars allows you to run softer suspension in the front to compensate for the diving… that is really cool!
Ive seen shorter riders (160cm) use bars that were half their height. Crazy!
Id still say the longer geometry is an overall win. Its lead to bikes that handle descents better. In turn, this has encouraged more and more descent oriented trails. Descents are the best part of MTB in my opinion so I very happy bikes got slacker.
As for bars, I run 760. I'm 5'10" and mostly ride downhill on a trail bike. I stick to flowy jump lines usually since I like living.
Slacker geometry is wonderful, but a longer bike is a bit harder to get through tight switch backs
@@bchearne and harder to pop and manny
i ride a hardtail with similar geo to that sick bike, 63 degree HTA, 78 degree STA, 510 reach, 1282 wheelbase.
it's pretty great. i could honestly go longer.
i have no idea why 500-ish reach is "long" on a mountain bike. my road bikes have a similar reach when you measure them saddle to bars. they're shorter on paper, but that doesn't count the stem.
Only up to a point. The longer the bike is, the slower, and wider it will turn.
@@arachnophilia427 Depends on how tall you are. 500mm reach is ridiculous if you're 5'10", your steering will be ridiculously vague since you'll be on the back of the bike. As a 5'10" rider I find the 475~ish reach range to be the sweet spot for me. I've ridden bikes in the 490-500 range and I always felt like I was too far on the back of the bike even in a neutral riding position. 500 reach, sure if you're over 6'
Thanks you for the informative vid. My bars finally found the middle ground for me . Thanks again for the content looking forward to more stay safe and 🍻 cheers
Happy riding in the new year!
Handlebars with a width of Mode than 600 mm were forbidden by UCI in XC races in the 80th and 90th.
The reason was to make overpassing easier. With the right skills it is possible to ride tecnical trails with these small bars.
XC racers still typically run narrow bars even today, for tree clearance and also to shed weight.
Sick bicycles - a bunch of south coast tattoo artists who were well on board the hype train. It's interesting to note that quite a few of us guys in FOD have been chopping in our Geometrons for 160/140mm trail bikes, just because we want a bit more playfulness on the trails. Still quite accomplished and equally fun when its flatter.
Thats what i have been saying ! Since the front wheels brake effect is stronger you should put a smaller disc
Just got a digital pressure gauge from Santa and found all of my pressures much lower than I thought. Both my shock pump and track pump gauges are well out of speck. I have set my pressures using my new gage and my set up is feels really hard. Not had chance to ride out yet but I'm very interested to see if I have inproved things or made it worse
The only way to tell accurate pressures those things!
That's why I generally prefer using the sag reading to set-up my suspension over the actual pressures. I only ever use the shock pump gauge to know when I'm close-ish and need to measure the sag. Plus, the gauge is only useful for inflating the shock or fork and you can't really effectively check it with a gauge (because you change the volume of the air chamber when you connect the pump, subsequently reducing the pressure in the air spring.)
Good stuff Rich. Interesting that Martin runs a smaller rotor on front and larger on the rear opposite of what we all get stock.
heat dissipation, bigger rotors are bigger heatsinks and the rear brake still takes most of the heat loading on a long DH run, especially in steeps. Even pros will drag the rear brake to control speed on steeps.
So after a long, long period of name discussion we went with Riley. What do you think? Thank you for all the incredible suggestions- there were some absolute gems in there and some great laughs too!
Manufacturers are still pushing the lower, longer, and slacker is better trend, just look how slack current XC bikes are, they're basically short travel trail bikes, which is nuts, not everyone wants or needs a slack bike
Longer lower slacker until MTB geo matches moto which figured this stuff out nearly 50 years ago for off road two wheelers. We need freedom from the roadie weight weenies!!!
My first MTB had 680 mil bars, and I'm still getting used to the new bike that doesn't fit through technical gaps I used to ride with ease. Much better chainring clearance on the new 1x drivetrain though, lol.
780mm bars seem to fit most riders 5'10"+. I rode 760mm bars for years when 29ers had shorter wheelbases.
That mountain biking vids are shot in one run. The cooler the vid, the more takes, and then it is stitched together in editing. Don’t try to emulate your favorite vid the first time down some trail.
Very true! So much work, so many takes for some of those unreal edits out there
Sam Pilgrim did a video explaining how he made videos a while back. He said it takes an entire day of filming for 10 minutes of video.
Ya I finally cut my bars down to 790. 800 feels good, but 790 gives me just a little more clearance.
What about tire sizes? 2.0 to 2.2 to 2.4 and even bigger? Pressures are lower, but they are much heavier
I’m 5’2, and I have my bars at 690. They still feel a little bit wide.
I was always told If you have outside hand pressure means bar are to wide ? Also inside hand pressure bars are to narrow ? Thoughts ?
I’m 5’6” seems my ideal bar width is between 740-750 wide.
Raced bmx my whole life….hate anything wider than 720 on dj, 760 trail. That’s just me.
Ha har I've just got to pressures!....well Rich you have not talked about plus size yet but I'll put money on you getting there!..I run 2.8" tires on my 63deg head angle and they are brilliant. my biggest complaint is that after a while the side walls get sort and start puncturing but ride damping is phenomenal and the traction is immense.
Plus tires are definitely passe with 29s becoming the dominant wheel size on anything short of DH and really big enduro bikes.
Dropper seat posts are necessary. Yes its a nice to have sometimes but is it really needed most of the time, no. And yes I do ride technical trails
I don't have "easy mode" single trail bike parks I do up to 60miles 5500ft up the mountain on roads and hard ground then descent wherever I feel like it sometimes in difficult pedestrian hiking trails never meant for bicycle sometimes freeriding in the forest dropper post was a huge game changer for me I have 50% slopes descents followed almost immediatrely by a 20% climb before dropper I had to stop lower my seat to not go over the bar on the descent then stop at the bottom raise the seat because you can't pedal up 20% like a hobbit, people who don't think it's useful aren't cyclists
Dakota is running SLIGHTLY higher bars😂
5:35 Fun fact: You can still technically by one of those Sick bikes even though the company's gone bust. If you know, you know.
Overly wide bars I agree with.
Dissing my 62° Hello Dave's natural predecessor is not nice!
No personal disrespect Rich, but until you send one of those bikes down an evil chute, you'll never understand 🤣
I'm the same height, 6', and that frame in the XL size is perfect. With a steel frame with that geo, anything downhill is easy and comfortable. The compliance in the frame is properly noticeable if you're used to riding aluminium hardtails regularly, it feels superb.
You're welcome to give mine a try any time 👍❤️
“Lower and wider” from him promoted last couple years
“Don’t believe them” also from him nowadays
Influencer nowadays 👍🏻
Dropper seat posts are essential. Fiction.
should you run narrow bars if you wanna use bar ends?
I ran 610mm for years after over-cutting my bar I had a lot of shoulder and hand pain from that and needless to say it's very involved on enduro trails if you do XC and mix flat climb and descent narrow works no problem but yeah don't go too low >< and if you're going to do enduro dh or bike park avoid >
@fredEVOIX thank you for the thoughtful response its really helpful. I'm 6'3 running a 665mm bar. it measures a bit wider with the bar ends on. Its an XC hardtail. Im a long time commuter/roadie having a good time on gravel roads. no enduro or down hill for me. espcially at my age and with my injury history.
Width of bars also depends on reach of bike.
You missed "short cranks don't rob you of torque"
they absolutely do >< have an xc analog 2016 175mm cranks I do tour de france cat1 or hc category climbs on it no problem, bought an ebike 165mm cranks never noticed anything because of the motor but when i switched to 155 every single time i stop mid climb and i do nasty ones 20-30-48% on it there's no way I can get that 1st crank to move the ebike unless the crank lever is in a good angle I can push my 220lbs on it all I want it's not moving unless I have the right angle, can't imagine that on my analog bike I'm keeping my 175mm levers
175cm height, 66KG. 800mm handlebars. My arms are long.. perfect match! 203mm Rotor (front) with shigura. This is just ok. Could be more.
Longer, lower, and slacker is the trend that needs to come to an end. It's no wonder you see so many riders going over the bars. They are not able to keep the front end up and are getting pulled forward.
Less that and more false confidence and getting in over their head. Slacker bikes are more forgiving of less than perfect line choice, but also encourage you to send it bigger. Most OTBs I see in fail vids are still primarily bad line choice or lack of speed control and clapping the fork in the wrong spot. My first full sus had a 67 degree HTA and a very short wheelbase, I would be far more worried about OTBing on that bike than my current bike which has a 64.4 degree HTA and a medium-long wheelbase. On the old bike I could look down and see my back tire when descending steeps, the new bike is much more balanced in the steep stuff.
@mrvwbug4423 Yeah, and most mountain biking isn't done on the steep stuff. So DH specific bikes, great. But all other bikes, they don't need to be long, low, and slack. At least not to the extremes we are seeing these days.
My last three bikes I've gone from a 65.5 head angle, to 66.5, to 67.3, and the 67.3 feels the best, the front end feels more confidence inspiring, like it has more grip while cornering, plus it can still handle steep double blacks too, I hope the bike doesn't eventually wear out because I doubt that I'll be able to buy a short travel trail bike with its geometry numbers ever again.
Bike fit also differs on the torso-to-leg ratio of the rider. I'd say every rider is unique.
Absolutely!
I’m 5’-11 3/4” tall.
34” inseam.
23” arms.
15.5” lower leg.
Normal to narrow shoulders.
And want a neutral riding position.
So I think I need/want a bike for 5’-11” to 6’ male rider for my height, with shorter reach and shorter effective top tube for my short arms, 165mm cranks for my short upper leg/long lower leg. And likely not so long bars.
That combination seems impossible to get on a new bike without significant part swapping and right now what might fit is not easily available.
Balance is best, so is to balance😂
430 mm reach for a small is tooo long for a 5ft 6 rider still im liking the new specialised stumpy at 400 mm reach. However i have a santa cruz bronson xs at 385mm, onone deedar at 395 mm, cube sting at 398 mm a giant reign at 410mm feels like a barge a cube stereo 160 at 408mm all at 35mm stem on the long reach frames and 40 mm on the shorter reach frames however the stereo and reign im looking to mullet to kick the reach back slightly
you must have really short arms, or ride almost nothing but jumps
I run 1.3 bar front 1.2 bar back im a xc rider and ride tubeless
Bigger rotors will absolutely give you more braking power, but it’s never been an issue for me. I’d suggest a lot of riders would do better to work on grip strength instead, which has the added benefit of preventing hand/forearm exhaustion
you really shouldn't be death gripping your bars or brakes anyway.
@@bchearne quite silly to present it at the video that bigger rotors don't always give more power. Because they do. Always. Brobably the cheapest way to get more power.
nice vid
Cheers!
A well-balanced bike with a good balanced rider position and good tuition should be the yardstick of bike choice rather than "magic" formula!
I cut my bars to 750.
remember the stem!!
Sorry to be the multi paragraph guy
Couple of takes. The handle bars is weird because I use to have 800 on my moto and didn’t feel weird on a bike. I have long since reduced to a 780. And feels better. And gave up riding moto! Except pit bikes!
The big brake rotors are great on e bikes. Went 220 front and back!just feels better! And more controlled descending.
And lastly the pros suspension. Thee was an article years ago in decline magazine and they did ride the pros suspension set ups. The article showed what their set ups were and when ridden by the regular rider is was super stiff! And uncomfortable! And one suspension guy said the rides don’t ride like this all the time the whole week at a race. They slowly make adjustments for the one time race run! And that’s what jabronies have to realize!
more gears are better! the more gears the weaker the chain and more clicking to find the right gear
I think the MTB world has settled on 1x12.
Narrower chains are not weaker, that's another misconception.
With narrow bars I feel like I’m riding a Razor scooter.
Long story short ...biking is about being in the optimum range ...there is no ever increasing better .
And in mtb geometry and suspension its always a compromise
Regarding the brake rotors I run 203s at both ends, I prefer having less lever effort and have zero issues modulating the rear brake even with the 203 back there. Probably has to do with years of riding sportbikes which tend to have very light effort on their brakes. With the big brakes on both ends I also find I don't have a lot of issues with hand fatigue or arm pump during bike park days. I think in terms of geo, it does come down to the individual bike, but things are getting a bit much on some enduro bikes. My main bike is a 2023 RM Altitude which I feel is about the perfect enduro bike, small enough to be reasonably nimble, burly enough to be confident even in twin crown territory. I demoed the 2024 Altitude and it feels like a barge, sure it's confident and plush as long as you're going straight, but feels ponderous when things get tight. I also demoed a Transition Spire, which is comparable to the 2024 Altitude in length and even slacker, but actually feels smaller when riding it just because it has a less front biased riding position, though the Spire also encourages you to ride like an absolute hooligan haha.
What width bar ? …..Do a press up and measure the width ……that’s your strongest position and that’s what width you should be using 👍
It's a solid rule of thumb which we encourage as a decent starting point. But you can always remove more, can't add it back on 😅
All the stupid misconceptions about mountain bikes started in the mid 2000's, and most of them are completely wrong. I have been shredding the trails in the U. S. and Canada for 30 years. I've done cross country, and DH racing, dual slalom, and freestyle competitions. I have a custom modified 8 sp. 1997 Specialized FSR, and a custom modified 9 sp. 2002 Marin Team DH. I always had handle bars 24 in. wide, 26 in. tires with a min. of 30 psi, and 15 in. bottom bracket height, and head angle of 67 degrees. I still have both of them, and ride them all the time. i could never ride the modern bikes, I've tried, but find it too unfamiliar. Probably because It's a matter of habit. Most of the new products, bike brands, and technologies are just bullshit marketing to make them more money.
So glad he mentioned Sick Bikes with a 62° HA hardtail. It really makes zero sense and it's impossible to ride a bike like that! That being said, I love my Hello Dave :D
Yeah "enduro hardtails" are ridiculous. Slapping a 160 or 170 fork on a hardtail is just going to be super unbalanced under compression. IMHO rowdy hardtails kinda top out at 140 travel with trail bike geo, past that hardtails don't even make sense.
someone forgot to tell my 160 mm single speed, mullet hard tail that it is supposed to be unbalanced and not ride properly. I’ve ridden it with 120, 130, 150, and 160mm forks on it, and it is an absolute blast that still climbs well and rails corners on singletrack with ease running a 160. Never feels out of balance or unstable. And that’s even running the adjustable dropouts as far forward as I can while still keeping tension on the chain.
I'm 6`2" and run 800mm bars on everything....its single handedly eliminated hand numbness so for me its hardly a fad.
Sorry but NO......More mainstream mischief.....I ride a Hello Dave sick bikes successor and its great!!!! my main full sus ride is a 63deg head angle and its great my ebike is 65deg and it could be slacker for my liking......what does all that mean, there is more than one way to skin a cat. not every 63deg head angle is going to be great for what you want or are used too, its the combinations that matter!
In other words, the bike industry marketers got away with lying and fleecing its consumer base by pushing bigger and better. I saw this horseshit , just that horseshit a long time ago. Most fell for it, now we have redicucles assinine prices for way overbiked crap bikes.
I finally upgraded my bike after 9 seasons because I got a crazy good deal through a local shop. I got a nice in the middle pack frame of an aluminum Kona gen 3 process 134. Not to steep not to slack, no crazy over travel. Just right. With a base build kit. I have a strong frame base for future upgrades as needed.
You guys have perpetuated all these things… so don’t even act like “Really” Hypocrites!
i was 5th
Hard tire doesn’t roll faster, it just feels like it 🤷♂️
It feels faster because it is faster. Less rolling resistance.
@@PabloGonzalez-hv3td More pressure does *_NOT_* automatically mean less rolling resistance. There is an optimal pressure for each rider/bike/tire combo and it's not going to be the max tire pressure your tire can accept.
Here is what Schwalbe has to say about it:
*_Off road it is exactly the reverse: The lower the inflation pressure, the lower the rolling resistance. This applies equally on hard gravel roads and soft forest tracks. Explanation: A tire with low inflation pressure can adapt better to a rugged surface. It sinks into the ground less and the whole rotational mass is held back much less by the uneven surface._*
Sorry but I'm all in on big rotors. There is nothing worse than the feeling of creeping over a steep rock roll and finding that no matter how hard you squeeze the lever, you still keep going faster. When this happens, you experience loss of control and everything else goes to hell in the panic even if you are a competent rider.
I'd much rather have grabby brakes and develop the sensitivity needed to modulate them than to be in a situation where I can't completely stop the rotation.
And yeah, I realize I could just get better brakes. But a bigger rotor is a much cheaper upgrade.
Though I would agree that you should try a sintered pad compound first.
This was you guys just a year or so ago… bigger rotors are of course better, wider bars of course are better.
ua-cam.com/video/CfYiXoJq76Y/v-deo.htmlsi=foDehxOTM078bvez
Yep, so now it’s opposite..or just need material for videos
@@50whatnomadtravelnursemtb5 that in the bike scene it's okayish computer hardware influencers are 10x worse at least here they actually ride, most pc tech tubers don't game but talk like they are an authority on gaming performance
get soft
Why bother with this garbage?
lol i don´t fall 4 29" Bikes a hole time i ride my 26" still and i test it my self i have a 29" bike and i ride my house course 2 times 59Km and my 26" Bike was faster than the 29" bike [Harttail both]
59Km
26" 03h:17min, 18,0 km/h, 980m Up hill 3Bar < -Tires Schwalbe Smart sam 2,1
29" 03h:24min, 17,1 km/h, 990m Up hill 2,7 Bar
Tires are different and what about gearing are the same?
@@LukaszMielczarek 29" mordern 1x12 34- 10/51
26" 3x10 24/32/40 - 11/36
@@SolidxSnakexDuke aaaan there is your answear why your old 26 is "faster"
Why stop there? Get a 24” bike. Or a 20” bike. Maybe you’ll be even faster.
@@SolidxSnakexDuke Your 26er has easier gearing by virtue of wheel size (gear ratio is the same). Put a 32 or 30 on the front of the 29er and climb the same hill.
29ers and Mullet Bikes should be on this list of misconceptions!!
@myrants586
Having tried both in the last two years, muller is faster and more comfortable on heavier trail, enduro, and DH riding. There’s videos with pro bike testers that concluded mullet was faster and more fun.
@myrants5836 🤡
29ers are undisputibly better for anything short of a DH bike, or big enduro bike. Unless you're really short. 29ers simply roll through chunk faster, pedal more efficiently and have a larger contact patch with the tire. Mullets are for when you're on a huge bike and want a little more agility. Full 27.5 honestly doesn't even really have a place on park bikes anymore. 26 is for dirt jumpers or people riding old school bikes.
@mrvwbug4423 Does make me chuckle when I read that. All of that is industry fed rubbish. I've owned so many mountain bikes across the years. 26/27.5/29. 29ers 'rolling over' stuff better is a myth. I saw ZERO difference between my 26ers and 29ers in terms of roll over capabilities. Also, the other utter myth of a larger contact patch giving more grip needs addressing. A bigger contact patch only serves to distribute your weight over a wider area. The result of this is the tyre digging into the ground less and even less grip. I've never experienced such a lack of front end grip than I did on my 29er. The most bite and grip I ever had was on my 26ers. The fact is we all absolutely flew down the trails on 26er with no issues whatsoever. The fastest most fun bikes I have owned were 26ers. It was the industry that pushed bigger wheel sizes because it had run out of ideas of what to sell next. One of the reasons I stopped mountain biking is that i could no longer buy the bike I wanted. If I could buy a 26er with modern (not over the top) geo I would chomp at the bit.
If you think a bigger wheel doesn’t roll over obstacles more efficiently than a smaller wheel then you’re not questioning bikes, you’re questioning physics and math. If you think 26” is better than 29”, ate you saying that 26” is the most perfect t wheel size out there? Maybe you should try a 24” or a 20”. If you haven't tried it, how do know? Of you gave up mountain biking because you can’t find any 26” bikes, then you gave up too easy… see Prevelo or Woom or any custom bike frame maker.
Wide bars... BS
Dropper posts......BS
Setting up your bike like a pro rider's bike that the guy is being paid to ride for 5 mins....... BS
Just my opinion.
Do what suits you and your wallet and have fun.