How to Calibrate Multiple Subwoofers Using REW
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- Опубліковано 30 вер 2024
- This is a basic guide on how to calibrate multiple subwoofers in a home theater by optimizing positioning, levels, delay, bass management, and EQ using a FREE measurement system called REW to help guide you towards making the best calibration decisions.
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Hey Gene, I know this is an older video but I finally took the plunge into MiniDSP and your plethora of knowledge in terms of proper measurement and EQ usage has allowed me to really dial in my subs. You’ve got no idea how much you’ve helped me man!
Gene, how does MiniDsp affect what's been layed out in this video? Can you perhaps do another video showing us how to use REW and MiniDsp to EQ, align and bass manage multiple subs? Really appreciate your channel and all the helpful tips
"that's where you put the mother-in-law" ... omfg LMAO ... but so true. 🤣
3 years later and this video is still one of the best ones to help with rew
Love seeing this type of content.
It is great to see but is a bit complex for me :( Still want to see it though, might learn a something.
To confirm, you'll have a follow-up video using the MultEq app to EQ the subs, correct? The app or something like the miniDSP are used for EQ, and REW is only for doing the measurements, correct?
Can you do a video on how to use REW to set the eq that’s built into a home receiver?
Thanks for the great video Jean. Big fan of audioholics and the information you guys put out which is very helpful. I followed your other video with the MiniDSP in the bigger Room where you have the 5 subs, and that was awesome work as well. My own setup is a 7.3.4 atmos setup in a dedicated theater room. The bass is tweaked using the MiniDsp 2x4, REW and a program called called MSO which is awesome, FREE and works similar to the SFM software from Harmon. I truly believe that the MSO program could help you achieve the same tight consistency seat to seat with half the time spent. You may want to check it out.
Also using 4 subs (positioned according to Dr. Geddes), MiniDSP, REW and MSO software. Achieved remarkable results with it. MSO and MiniDSP can even bring improvements when you have just 2 subs (started with 2, then upgraded to 4).
Excellent video Gene!
I am using an Anthem MRX-720, taking single sub output into miniDSP 2x4, then feeding two SVS PB2000 subs. It is my understanding the two Anthem sub outs are paralleled, hence why I use miniDSP for individual level and delay. Rather than use REW, I use ARCs Quick Measure to set delay and level variation between the subs.
Question: Is there any technical difference between using the miniDSP delay vs the SVS phase control? If they are the same thing, I could remove miniDSP from chain to simplify things... Although I do find it nice to be able to tweak the sub settings from laptop rather than going back-and-forth behind the subs. Hope I'm approaching this the right way? Your thoughts much appreciated! 👍
I'm in the same situation And configuration ! So how you finaly do ? Anthem + minidsp, or Anthem + control each svs (delay, phase, peq,...) ? Thank's
The thing I like about Audioholics is these guys have forgotten more than I ever knew about audio.
Really cool. Thks. The actual adjustment for my mother and law would be at the toilet sit :)
you're not a fan of your mother in law eh?
He actually said his mother in law doesn't particularly care for higher quality music, she is also likely to be pretty old with poor hearing.
Who the heck disliked this video? If you chose this video based on the description, it delivers. Some people are never happy I guess. Thanks for the video Gene!
I´m probably wrong but I guess there are people that have only one joy in live which is to crawl thrue youtube in every sparesecond and disliking videos
Sigh....ok the title says "how to calibrate multiple subs using rew". Maybe it's me as I've watched this video multiple times and you have only discussed how to use "rew" software to determine the frequency readings on a particular speaker or sub. I must have missed the part on how to use the readings you get from "rew" to implement changes to the avr or amp. There is no info being given on how or what to do with the info rew gives you to make changes to the "Eq" in an avr or amp. I totally respect the fact that your giving your valuable time to us free of charge and I hope I dont come across as rude but I have to tell you this is so frustrating as a "nube". If you could produce a video on how to actually "calibrate multiple subs" and not just how to read "rew" that would be awesome. The info I'm seeking is let's say my subs are falling short in certain frequency curves ,how do I take that info given by "rew" and implement changes to the settings in my avr or amp? If there is a video out there that does this I havnt been able to find it! Lol! I'm will pay money for this info!..lol! Fortunately the gentleman on your video that came after this one on how to use "rew" answered one of my questions. I think his name is Mathew Poe and he straightened me out to understand I need a "dsp" between my avr and subs. But alas how do i make changes on the dsp with the info i get from "rew". My next step is to just hire a "guy" to come calibrate my system as I'm totally cool with just throwing huge amounts of money at my particular problem!...lol! But seriously it cant be that difficult. I think my problem is just finding the right info,as for some reason it either assumed by gentleman like yourself that this is common knowledge or I'm just a complete and total moron!..lol! I would really like to think it's just that alot of "assuming" is going on and not the latter!...lol! Again thank you for your time!
I understand your frustration. You are welcome to join our Patreon channel to make specific video requests or sign on to one of our consolation packages where I can help you one on one.
I added a 3rd sub to my home theater and it blew my mind what a huge difference this made for my listening area. The freqeuncy response without any smoothing is nearly perfectly flat (all around +/- 3db/5db) all the way to to 120hz (xover point). This video helped me so so so much! Incase you're wonder I'm using 3 SVS SB-4000's and I have zero complaints with their performance. It's actually SCARY sometimes...
Gene, I have a Pioneer SC95 AVR, I have dual SVS PB1000pros, I want to calibrate/tune my subs to their most efficient level by investing in the MINIdsp 2x4HD device and UMC1 mic.
After calibrating with the minidsp, does that unit continue to be connected to my Pioneer receiver? Do I continue to use my internal room correction software in the Pioneer?
Hi Gene, first of all, I would like to thank you for your great videos. I’ve been wondering!! We do our very best with speaker placement and DSP to achieve a nice smooth frequency response with the microphone at listening positioned. But when we do further measurements either side of the hot seat things don’t look so good. Most likely we see troughs and peaks here or there. I was wondering whether these troughs and peaks actually happen in real life, such as a concert hall environment if we were to move from seat to seat, then surely the tonal characteristics of a grand piano for example would change somewhat. I should imagine that our ears adjust accordingly and we accept everything is fine. The question is, are we being too fussy trying to achieve a flat response across our seating area? I would be very interested to hear yours anyone else’s views on this. Thank you, Rodney UK. PS. It could be that any tonal (frequency response) changes in a concert hall are much more acceptable then they would be in a small listening room at home?
I've had My REW mic. for maybe 5weeks. I really need to get on with it.
Really helpful info and nice video quality. Im left wondering, is there a workaround if your subs dont support variable phase adjustment?
Also if someone already has a usb mic like a yeti or samson, will they be effective?
Separate delays (distance adjustment) for each sub. However, only higher end receivers can do this.
Well, this video is getting so many views but personally I feel this is extremely basic information. For someone who is starting out, this is fine. But I could not really find any seriously useful information for dual subs here.
Ok I have the minidsp 2x4 hd I have the power hooked to my power conditioner I have the USB into my laptop also have the umik1 plugged into my laptop I have the minidsp input 1 running to my emotiva xmc2 with my 4 subs plugged into the output side of the minidsp I have a fiber optic hdmi cable from my processor hooked to my laptop I have my rew all setup correctly my minidsp 2x4 hd plug-in downloaded connected with everything hooked up correctly I have double and triple checked but when I check ny levels and also when I try to measure I get no sound
Thank you for a great demonstration on the use of RAW software. What is your take on Dirac live as an alternative? I like the RAW approach because I believe you can learn more of a complicated process but there is a steep learning curve. I also like the Dirac live software because it suppose to calculate the needed adjustments within a short period of time. Please let us know what you think of them both. I am looking at purchasing a MiniDSP and not sure if I should get the Dirac Live built in version or go with the RAW solution. Thanks.
great vid. Can you do a vid for towers and rew. awesome thanks
OMG YES! Cant watch the vid yet but saw the title and Im so stoked! This is perfect timing, just while I was tinkering with my dual r115sw’s and minidsp again! 😃
I still come back to many old vids, so much truth and knowledge in them, reckoning this one will make a fine addition!!
Hey man please little help i have a monolith 15 sub and i cant find the best spot to my room i try them all but i have a big null in 45hz and some other frequencys i run audyssey i dont have microphone umik1 for example or mini dsp you believe if i took microphone umik 1 and mini dsp to can make some difference to the curve in few months im gonna buy a second one sub but for now what can i do also you have facebook to explain me better there??? Thank you and im waiting your help🙏🙏🙏🙏
Yes. Most important piece of enlightening information heard here is "good easurements at the critical crossover point between speakers and subwoofers!"
This is rarely discussed, yet absolutely important(besides flat response)
Good job Gene
I am curious, if you set a constant tone at your suck pit frequency and go round your room feeling if anything is vibrating? That could be sucking the bass out no?
If I use an audiophile USB cable for the mic will it give better frequency response
Gene, I have been getting into this lately. I have the UMIK-1 and a mini-DSP 2x4 HD. I had two big peaks and was able to get my line much flatter with delay and REW EQ. But when I ran some demos I really didn't like it. It was bloated and too much all the time. Even though REW is showing me what is wrong, it sounds way better if I leave it there. I am sure fixing these things is great if you really know what you are doing, but for right now Audyysey can do a better job than I can. I say if you are happy with your sound then don't even go down this rabbit hole. If you have someone who can help you then yes maybe...If you hate your bass then yes definitely. I unhooked the miniDSP and just ran back into my 2 sub outs on my 7705...ran Audyssey ( I have been using Audyssey for 15 years and I only do 3. I have done the 8 and can't say it actually sounds better) and I enjoy it much more. I will keep the DSP just in case I ever run into someone who can help but for now, Audyssey is better at it than I am.
So If I enjoy my bass now with Audyssy. I can save $300? 😀
@@TheRafcave absolutely
Hi can you make a video on how to calibrate a home theater system running separate amplifiers on all channels,thanks
I'm sorry but y does it look like u havnt smiled in years
A little bit of me dies each day. My life is full of perpetual sadness. The only joy I know is the deaths inevitable sweet release.
@@Audioholics Lmao
Could u do a video of how to measure properly a fulrange speaker with this mic?
I have a Yamaha Aventage RX-A2060 and it gives three options for dual subwoofers: Monaural x 2, front and rear, left and right. I have read many pros and cons regarding running stereo subs (left and right option). It does seem that many experts recommend going Monaural x 2. What is your recommendation?
Mono for Home Theatre as this is a Low Frequency Effect (LFE) for ALL channels not just the left and right channels...
I've trialled speakers at large setting (L,C,R,RL,RR) with subs attached (yes 5 subs! 6 actually but they are only 12" with passive radiators's in cabs) but it still doesn't compare to the LFE and speakers crossed over (XO) around the 60-80hz region and proper bass management EQ in place...
any video about Dirac ? :) pretty please
Great tips Gene. Thank you very much. All the Best from Poland.
Dont understand how to setup the dayton mic with rew spl meter is not accurate and test is too loud
Thank you for sharing know how! Wish you all the best, Genius Gene!
Nice video. I'd recommend to use ASIO device drivers.
Is there a newer video than this? You are not properly calibrating. What is the phase angle of your mains at low pass to subs? What is the relative phase of each sub to this angle? How did you determine delay (advance) to each sub?
If the subs and mains integrate without cancellation, the phase is lined up. Delay was set based on measured response between the mains and subs. More advanced users can use waveletts to determine time alignment but even if the subs are a couple of cycles off from the mains, this usually will NOT be audible. Frequency response is the ultimate guide for getting good bass in rooms.
You're awesome Gene! Thanks.
Can you do video with minidsp for subs
I have avr at 0db, signal from rew at -30 db and my 20-500 sweep starts at 90db then falls linearly down to 70db at 100hz, then +/- around 70db to 500hz. Do I have this setup correct to be getting these readings?
Hello Gene. I'm glad I found your channel, though I'm at least three years late.
Can this alignment process be adapted to the vehicle environment to investigate sub-bass response in and out of the vehicle?
In cabin, windows shut
In cabin, windows fully open
Out cabin, windows open
Out cabin doors open
Dear sir.
Have you made a video describing how to integrate a single sub into a stereo system? I'm thinking of the correct phase, etc. I use the headphone output from my laptop, which goes directly into my preamp via. rca plugs. I have an umik and REW.
Kr
Frank
I have same AVR - Marantz SR8012 and using 2 SVS Sb3000 subs - after using MultiEQ app - I get this one Null around 80-90 hZ - what would be the best way to fix or improve that to make it as flat as possible and I don't have much option to move my Subs? Any possibility of me showing you the curves that I got?
whenever I do this or level match my speakers with decibel reader, should my sub be at "50%" or in the middle? I tried setting all my channels at 75db(A) and sub at 75db(C) I just want to make sure that everything is set up correctly before using REW (also have UMIK)
The microphone I have is the miniDSP UMIK-1USB. I have dual SVS SB-16 Ultras and a DENON AVR-3313ci receiver.
The most important thing about all this work you're doing is understanding the difference in sound. I think it's a killer-app feature.
Receiver manufactures need to program in a way to toggle all settings. I'd love to hear how my changes make a difference on the default (no calibration) vs Dirac and Audyssey.
I know you can switch between presets, but I think there are better ways like "no delay", "no SPL", etc. I wanna know where the issues are and what I'm fixing.
Great tutorial. It really helpful to see how the test parameters affect the display. It is also heartening to see the back wall opening to the kitchen; one of my side walls opens into the kitchen likewise. The advise to measure only around the central listening position, where to aim the mic, how to interpret hills vs. valleys and what EQ can, and can’t do for you. In 2023 I’ve ordered the OmniMic V2 to help me tune my room, and finally, finally, integrate my subwoofers into my room. You’ve given me hope after 10 years of frustration with home theater setup (I had about given up).
It's a bit of an unorthodox approach to setting up multiple subs but the results look good. Better to increase the AVR's small freq crossovers well above 80hz to eliminate any influence. REW says to avoid adding phase/delay to subs individually. Only need to add delay or invert one sub, the closest. And the sub crawl isn't effective across a sub's spectrum and multiple seats.
In any event, it's easier to use a single sub output from the AVR, of course gain match both subs, add phase/delay or invert the closest sub to optimize nulls/peaks across the two sub outputs. Restore the AVR's proper crossovers etc. Then use the AVR's configuring function (Audyssey or similar) to match subs (calculates distance/SPL) to the rest of the speaker configuration aside from subs.
Hello Gene, I purchased the Dayton mic and installed REW. I watched your video a couple of times and the additional one Audioholics had on REW room simulation. Something very important is left unclear. I have an older Onkyo PrePro with Audyssey MultiEQ XT. I have two McIntosh HT-2 subs, placed diagonally in the room to avoid co-location and still maintain a living room. In your video you mention Audyssey and how you need to switch to manual EQ for ideal subwoofer management of some peaks and drop offs in the response curve. However, it appears that ALL prepros do not allow you to separately set manual sub EQ’s in conjunction with Audyssey doing the other speakers. If you have passive subs, without phase control, are you just plain stuck??
Hi Gene, I’m running 2 SVS SB1600 ultra’s and I’m running a 5.2.4 set up.
I’ve run REW a few times with good results, but I’ve never adjusted the phase. I’ve used the the EQ on the subs to adjust out peaks and nulls. You had mentioned not to worry about the nulls as much as the peaks because you wouldn’t notice them as much. I was doing that all wrong. I was boosting the nulls. Now I going to redo REW and try adjusting the phase and see how that affects the curve. Side note I want to add just by moving my subs 6 to 12 inches made a huge difference on my REW curves. Thanks for putting these videos out. I don’t think I would have attempted REW without them.
Awesome information Gene!! I'll be watching this video probably 8 times... 😂🤣😂
While playing around with REW what I found out first is checking whether dual subs are in phase each other by listening around the room and whether response curve is satisfactory enough between 20-80hz. Once that's done I missed the point Gene try to come across from 10:15, is that check if dual subs are in phase with main speakers at the crossover region around 80-120hz. I had a dip around 80-100hz and mistakenly boosted DB, so instead what I did was changing both subs from 0 to 180. It did the trick while also maintaining similar response from 20-80hz.
My single sub looked like a 100Hz sine wave. Two subs got it closer (not perfect...as I'm using two vastly different subs).
Dirac Live only has the option for 1 sub during calibration. Would you recommend using REW to calibrate multiple subs? And is a miniDSP needed for sub calibration with REW?
Hello Gene, thank you for this video. I have a query. Are you still suggesting Dayton UMM-6 Microphone or you have any other model which you consider better than dayton? Please reply.
What volume do you have the receiver on? I usually do testing at 15 on my Marantz 1603. Also, do you want to get the level as high as it goes but doesnt clip? I usually bring up the level in the -15 to -20 range for the sub and my speakers seem to be down closer to 0 to -5 with the same volume in my receiver. Just trying to figure out this correctly as many people dont go over that. My in usually gets to 0.2 -1. Is that normal to be testing the mic to that kind of levels? You're are way different as they are very low compared to mine(volumes)
Are you playing your receiver at reference level when running your sweep? And should I be leveling to 75hz on my mini DSP? Or am I leveling subwoofers for the maximum response ? I’m lost lol
How do you set time alignment and phase on a Denon X4400H? Do I run Audyssey first? Then turn it off and use REW? Then run Audyssey again?
Excellent video. Many thanks for the share. Could you please shed light on time alignment using acoustic timing as reference in REW using a USB Mic?
Hi Gene! Great video with crucial info! Why the -15db sweep level? Thanks
have you tried using the ASIO drivers? allows you to measure L, C, R, LS, RS and LFE channels
Is there a problem having subs of different sizes? Say a 10" & 12" or 10" & 14"?
Good video Gene I have the MINIDSP microphone its good for me to see this if I did mine correctly .I am in a condo living room so different from a house .I have two subs .IN my setup. I saved my charts from the mic .I can always go back and see .
Wow. Very nice. So, I humbly ask, how do I set up studio monitors to accurately produce what will be ultimately reproduced after all mixing and engineering is done? Whew....
Gene, are your fronts the RBH speakers with the granite cabinets? Shane demoed those for me and they have an incredibly wide sound stage, or rather, wide sweet spot.
Gene you do it again, amazing content!!
Gene on the phase adjustments do you play one sub at at time to get the best phase setting for each or play both together and keep adjusting until they collectively have the best phase setting and frequency curve?
@@Stevo19801 I typically vary the phase one sub at a time though I had a hunch that the DSP delay of both subs needed the same adjustment so in my case, 90deg for both subs worked best.
Audioholics when I have done this in the past I have only one sub playing use the phase to get the best curve then turn that sub off and do the same with the second. The concept being if both are independently set to the best then can be the combine response when both are turned on should also be. Also as I have a front centre and back center sub the best setting was to have them play out of phase from each other, That sound right to you gene? Also when you going to get the Atmos setup walkthrough up, your response to me on a video made me go from 7.2 to 5.2.2, I have found lowering the surrounds from 2’ above ear level to 1’ above ear level helps separate bed from ceiling channels for a better blend, interested in your experiences
@@Stevo19801 You should have ALL your subs playing the same mono mix + LFE signal if you want to take full advantage of what multi-sub offers. I wouldn't run subs for the center or surround channels. Bass manage ALL your channels and have one sub/lfe channel.
@@Audioholics Hi Gene. Great vid as it's exactly what I want to do over the next few weeks, but there's only one thing that's confusing me. You mention to run the receiver in stereo mode, but wouldn't that stop the LFE channels from outputting a signal? If I can get the answer to this, I'll be ready to start measuring. Cheers
What mic would you recommend now, 4 years later?
@@hellonwheelsuknow6556 umik-1 nothing fancy
If I buy the MiniDSP mic, do I really need the MiniDSP 2X4 too?
When doing measurements, what does the dBFS mean in this context and what happens when you crank that up?
Please help me in how to adjust the frequency gain information in to audyssey multi EQ.
Thanks, what about Dirac? would you recommend only measuring 3 feet max distance apart?
Great if I had all those toys but I just have a regular receiver 7.2 and used the calibration on it that’s all lol
Can you use REW to level match subs instead of using an SPL meter?
Gene, did you ever make the video regarding the Audyssey App?
Great video by the way!
Two subs sittin in a hot tub . . .5 feet apart because that's where room phase shifts them towards for the best response consistency from seat to seat.
Is REW just for running base? Btw how ta feeling?
Thank you so much for taking the time to make this video. I've been waiting for you guys to help us out. Thank you so much.
I am wondering if there is a slightly better microphone for REW that is cleaner below 20 hz ? Is it even necessary to worry about it if we can't hear that low anyway.
So I have done some sewwps in my home recording room. Totally amazed with the results. I lost a little bass volume however the frequencies felt better to me. Would you say I could turn the sub speaker up a little to comensate?
Is there a video tutorial on how to for dummies for REW?
This must be for the more advanced enthusiasts.
Hey Gene how's it going ? This is my first time posting on your channel. And this video gave me the idea ask you a question on powered subs for a 2.1 music only system. I'm putting together my very first bookshelf speaker system, due to room limited real estate. My question is in your opinion which powered sub would be better for for a variety of music. I want to stay in the $500-$1000 price range. Thank you in advance.
Anything from Rythmik or HSU.
Hey Gene thanks for this, increasing the LPF for LFE from 80Hz to 120Hz made a huge difference in sound for my room. Now thinking about trying the calibration for my two subs.
dewdorama 80Hz means the speakers crossover not LPF that should always be left at 120hz
How do you adjust the delay? I have a marantz
Are you mean to use Audyssey setup first , or not at all?
Do you still use the minidsp in your main system?
Still NO ONE does this THIS well!
Wow.Wonderfull.Is it possible to connect a graf/equalizer on a av receiver?Is it going to boost and improve the sound quality?
you can buy both a microhpone and a minidsp 2x4 from minidsp.com. Put the minidsp between receiver subwoofer output, and your subwoofer(s). Thats it
Great video! Hope to watch the ARC video soon!
Damn looking at the the level trim your speakers are set at that room must be very symmetrical where you placed the speakers because basically the level trims are identical for each set of speaker
Yea I try to get good balance positionally first before level matching.
Why is my sweep playing through my front towers instead of only my subs, am I missing something?
You have to disconnect the towers.
Great vid i only have one person set up so don’t care anywhere else so how many spots should i do where I listening would 4 spots be enough?
If you're only worried about 1 listening position, use that same spot. Ear level. You could do like 3 sweeps and average them if you wanted to get really particular about it.
Your lighting is a but lacking. The audio is noticeably better. You might invest ~$100 into a simple light kit. Screen capture software makes this type of video look better too. That way the bad color balance is less noticeable. Thanks for the great content.
Looking forward to the Audyssey video!
Great video, thank you.
Gene just to confirm you recommend not using auddesy on the receiver at all? Or do that first and then use rew?
Always do positioning first with your subwoofer as good as you can.
Most recommended after that is to do your own EQ/phase/delay, and last finish off with Audyssey.
I was hoping to see how to "mess" with the phase? is there really no science behind it? is it really hit and trial?
Unless you have a sophisticated Room EQ like Harman SFM that can measure and adjust this, it's trial and error.
Do you make the phase adjustments and eq ( in svs app ) before or after run audyssey?
Before, so the Audyssey "sees" the configured subs
Hi! I use just one sub a Velodyne dd 15+ and my room size is 15x15x8. I have bass traps in all 4 corners, rear wall and rear corner ceiling. Do you think i need more subs or is one enough for my room size? Thanks.
Thanks!
Another question, can I use the software provided from Velodyne with their mic or rew will be better? I don’t have rew presently and will have to buy the required mic for it.