Just subscribed in spite of your torque sensor bias. Wife and I own 2 budget folders with cadence sensors. My GForce T42 is 80nm at full throttle but I programmed PAS1 with 15% power, ie, 8 mph. Very tame, no jerky at all. Wife's AULOOR is not programmable and PAS1 is 15mph which is too fast and is jerky. I rode her bike and told her to take off PAS1, gentle throttle. She can throttle 3 mph in PAS5. She now has no problem riding her 1st ever ebike!
Having had so many e-bikes, and trying a lot of cheap and more expensive cadence bikes.. I really like them evenness . They are not smooth, and will always be jerky. Yet having any e-bkes brings so much pleasure. Does it matter.. Thanks for your comment ..
In response to cadence as far as taking care of a cadence bike, theres really no difference in cadence vs a torque bike.. Hub drives are a bit easier to take care of no question as it’s a more simple of a system. One point it’s really get’s down to what works best for you. All in all a torque bikes is just as easy as a cadence bike. What really matters is you being happy on your bike, and riding it. Can’t tell how many bikes, when first bought are used a few times and sit…
Looking for your first ebike is really getting tough, with over 250 company's selling ( Mid Fi mass produced ) ebikes. let me know what your budget is .I have a number of companies that I recommend and can get you a discount. Glad you enjoyed the video we are working on a number of new ones..
I personally love Mid Drives.. Better balance, but what makes them is you can actually use all of the gears . I have 2 the BikTrix Juggernaut Ultra Duo 4 . One beautiful rise .. With the Bafang M620 160 nm., is a blast to ride. I have done 40mph and it kept on pulling. My friend Paul also cameraman has done 44.9. I do not recommend going this fast, but you have we where curious .. A good Mid Drive puts you in the bracket of the best ebikes. Only problem is a lot of company's are throwing them together . They start out going in the right direction, then fall on their faces, by using garbage components.. Let me know if this is where you are heading glad to help..
I agree, if one looks carefully. Their are a number of quality e-bikes. I still do not care for cadence e-bikes, and have had a number of them. Bottom Line any e-bike is a blast.. ..
I too have just subscribed, and up to today, I didn't know the was 2 systems for pedal assist , now I understand why my wife hates her 20 x 3" step thru bike, so my question to you is : Is there a way to add a torque sensor to her bike and integrate with the cadence sensor or is there a conversion kit available ? BTW thank you so much for your excellent video , I know more today than yesterday!
Unfortunately. no you can't switch a bike over . ( On an absolute with tons of money yes ) anything can be done. But really No..Thanks for your question ..
No a cadence you (yes can use the throttle ) still have to pedal to get the bike going. You most surely do not have to work very hard. A torque speed sensor works on peddle pressure, but if you want to take it easy just boost up the P A S and say in 4 or 5 it's really easy peddling. The really nice thing about torque sensor is it's so much easier to keep a constant speed. Where cadence a lot of times it's jerky and not a smooth transition to getting power to the back wheel..
@@Instantpower332 , I can deal with the jerky motion but a friend of mine recently bought a Cannondale mountain style bike with torque sensor, he has 3 pas levels, we went on a ride and hit a fairly steep hill, I had to put in effort to make to the top but he almost didn't make it on a $6700 bike
@@mikebordeaux8218 You are preaching to the choir, sure they make a nice bike ( Very expensive ) and very under powered . I have 2 cadence bikes ones the Juiced RipCurrent, 750 watt 25 amp controller 52 volt battery . I can pull 1300. watts and this bike for a hub motor flys. It's also a torque/cadence bike. The difference in this cadence system is instead of maybe checking 12 times a second at best it's 100 times a second much better. I have a cheap Freesky Rocky very well built and stupid fast 28 mph in PAS 5 and all you have to do is move the peddles. Frankly it's unsafe at that speed. Canondale are just under powered , and over priced..
@@mikebordeaux8218 problem with torque sensors that they configured different from every manufacture. Cheap Chinese on highest PAS usually gives you full power(to get around Europe law where throttle is not allowed)while others vary. For example I've seen many(specially European companies) on highest PAS give you back same power as you make.for example if you make 250W with legs motor will give you 250W.which makes Ebikes completely useless and overpriced,so better test bicycle in shop before buying
Mid drives vs Hub.. Sorry was doing 2 things at the same time , forgot to mention Hub vs Mid drive . Hub motors do not use any of the gears on the bike, you hit the throttle that's it you get total output depending what P A S you in. Hubs are easier to use, as you really don't have to shift, by using the throttle the bike ( Most will go to 20 MPH ) regardless of what gear your in.. Mid drive s you get a lot more torque as you are shifting the bikes the same as shifting a car. And because of this they are way better for hills, and your battery can go much farther. Hubs are easier, but Mid drives are so much better for balance and torque ( Power )
Sorry Rich I missed your question on Mid Drives.. Let's say I love them. and have 2. What a lot of folks don't know is they came out first quite few years ago, before hub drives it's a really great system as long as you understand it's almost identical to driving a stick. Your transmission is the gears on the bike. This means a small motor can have a lot of torque. Both of my bikes have Bafang Motors ones the Bafang M600 which has 120 nm the other has the Bafang M620 which has 160 nm which on just about every ebike is double the power. Having a Mid Drive gives the bike better balance, most have torque speed sensors ( All of the kits you see are cadence ) As long as you do not mind shifting , and having a torque system it's such a pleasure to have total control of the bike, The gears on a hub drive have know effect on the motor. and thats the one thing that's nice about hub drives. You break a chain you can still get back. I snapped my chain on the Juggernaut had to call my wife to come and get me.. Hub drives are also quiet, one thing is though you have to shift to a lower gear when coming to a stop. Think about coming to a stop sign with a stick shift and living the car in 4th gear. It's the same thing with a mid motor. It takes a short while to get accustomed to the bike. All In All I'm never going back to a hub drive. I will keep my Juiced RipCurrent so when friends and family want to go for a scoot. Since I haver 2 ones The FLX Step Through 2.0 ( Best Deal on The Planet ) You can. scroll down and see the review it's got the 750 watt Bafang M600 120 nm and The Juggernaut Ultra Duo 4 Bafang M620 160 nm that's the one where I snapped my chain. One too high of a gear on Sport 5 and had the Hamer down completely my fault. One learns quickly not to that.. Ok Hub Vs Mid Drive Hubs are easier for new riders. You really don't have to worry about shifting. , Some people say it's easier maintenance. I'm in the middle on that. Both systems are pretty simple . Hubs are easier ,as you don't have to worry about shifting Mid Drives You have a lot more power for hills, and a lot more power by design and you get more miles out of your batteries.You have to shifted when coming to a full stop you have to be in a lower gear. If not you will wear out your chain and cassette, and possibly the motor..If you don't use the gears as you are supposed to , yes there will be more maintenance, and cost. Bottom Hubs are better for the general public who just want to get on and ride with no worries Mid Drives are all better if you understand what you have to do, and way more power for hills and our fun.. Ron .
Sir, could you please suggest any technical questions that should be asked up front? The difference between the magnates & crystals are interesting. Not knowing Jack about them I’d ask the sales company to explain. The jerking on the initial throttle input is concerning. Thanks for that one.
Dave, if you have seen a weigh station on the highway where the have the semi’s come in the are using strain gauges. What these gauges are are crystals, that produces an electrical signal when squeezed. A torque sensor is just that crystal’s that are set up in a way, when you press down on the peddles the Torque sensor produces a signal telling the computer how much power to go the motor. Now a cadence sensor ( cheap ones ) have ( think of a clock ) and the magnets are on all the hours. This is attached right next to the crank arm, when you peddle you rotate the clock face which has the magnets. The magnets when spinning produce a signal that a reader sees and tells the controller full power. Really good cadence sensors use the same principle as the torque sensor. They just aren’t as accurate. A torque sensor measures 1000 times a second, a much better cadence sensor can go as high as 100 times a second. A cheap cadence sensor is either 8 times or 12 times a second depending on how many magnets they use. I hope this answers your question. And thanks for asking..
This is good info, I am looking at ETrikes I like the Puckipuppy the best so far BUT it does have a cadence sensor, but it has a mid drive motor so I am not sure it that will make a lot of difference. But this is just more good info. I would love to have a 2 wheeler but I am in my 70s not and as sure as I once was on my balance ability.
Puckpuppy from everything I have heard and read is Ok. Plus the differential is again very good, I don't think at least right now any trikes are torque bikes..
My 50th birthday is next month. Empty nesters here and really love the idea of going out and biking with my husband. I really like the Portola by Ride1up. Hearing mixed reviews. Can you give me some insight?
I would not recommend any bikes in that price range. Please your first bikes should be quality..One when you do outgrow the bikes you can get almost all you money back. 2 you really want torque speed sensor bikes. and 3 you want bikes that are very safe with excellent components .I really only recommend one bike in what you folks are looking for .it's called the Hovsco Beta, and it's gorgeous , Sutto motor (one of the best hub motors ) threw front axel. and quality components.hydraulic brakes,, and stunning paint.. 2 year warranty. I know Annie ,a higher up at Hovsco so you folks can deal direct, the service and support is remarkable . If you do talk with Annie ask her for a discount she always finds a way. If you need more information just ask .I will give you Annies direct line , just tell her Ron from Instant Power 322 we talk often. 909-900-8695. price on the Hovsco Beta was $1699 last time a checked but again asked her for a discount . And lastThe Portala isn't what Unwound want 1st riders to be on.. its not very good.. Ron...
I bought a ride1up turris 3 months ago and have 600 miles on it already. Super safe and soft power in lower assists and very fast in assist 4 and 5. Zero problems and no flats. 40 miles of range in assist 2. I think its their best bike in their lineup. Has cadence sensor and throttle and the whites beautiful
@@polok890 I think finding a. bike , 1st bike is so eye opening and a blast. One thing you have a cadence bike. .A lot of folks are happy with there cadence bikes, and a lot of them very unhappy. I started out 20 years ago with a Trek torque bike. spoiled me. Yet we have reviewed a few cadence bikes, last year. As Of 24 Instant Power 322 has gone to doing No cadence bikes to really very few hub motors. To possibly only mid motors, we have been very fortunate this year and have met some great folks. Most important have a blast..
Randy thanks for the compliments, I'm getting a lot of flak from some of the Facebook subscribers. I have had ebikes for over 20 years and frankly I'm really disgusted in some of the subscribers. They love to tell people that all we are doing is click bait and making money.. You have to have 10,000 subscribers to make pennies .They also have to say how wonderful there bikes are when they are literally garbage., Cadence bikes are great only if you have a disability, otherwise you will find them on every junk bike made. And reviewers get paid by the bike RESELLERS and get huge perks. I have had ebikes for over 20 years and over they years there have been some pretty decent bikes, and then comes in the RESELLERS who are buying from 4 company's in China. All you need is $100,000 grand and a name and yo'ur in the ebike business . To say I get flak would be an understatement. We call a spade a spade and right now there are 20 really decent company's who make really great bikes. We will be glad to help you get the exceptional bike, all you have to do is contact us through the UA-cam channel . This way the folks on Facebook can't make life miserable for us.. Take Care All The Best Ron
Torque Sensor all the way. I've ridden both for 6 years. When I ride a cadence sensor it feels like an on/off button. I feel like I have to adjust my force and pedal assist to the bike vs a torque sensor which feels like the bike power adjusts to my pedal input. I have a Biktrix Juggernaut Ultra Duo now.
There is only one folding ebike that meets our standards. It's made by Hovsco and it's very well built. A Sutto 750 watt motor that has a real 90 NM of torque 15 ah battery , the front fork is a through axel ball bearings , rims are double walled , Hydraulic brakes.this bikes so much better the any folding bike .. And the bikes using a Torque speed sensor.. I had this season all planned out and we are going to be doing either the Hovsco Beta or the Alpha. Both gems . Another plus is I have a direct # to Annie one of the higher ups at Hovsco. You by pass the 800 numbers and you can call her on her direct line. If you want a folding ebike this is the best one for the money. Another stellar by is the Hovsco Alpha . Same specs except the battery is a 20 ah and it's a 26"... here's Annies direct line 909-900-8695 ask her for the Father's Day discount. Cant hurt.. Any questions please ask Ron
You can get the most power in the highest PAS. It's still not bad, but compared to a cadence bike they give you full output. ( which is what a don't care for. ) Both fit folks needs, for me its a torque
I have arthritis in my knees. I'd like an affordable all terrain bike. I'm 5'0. Have you tested the Velotric Nomad 1? I live in Canada so affordable quality options are limited. Thanks!
I have a wired bike. It's cadence. You don't have to pedal at all and just use the throttle if you don't want to throttle. Better yet, when going down hill if you want to pedal and get exercise going downhill just put PAS on 0 and use the weight of the bike against you. No issue with PAS at all. Sorta like shifting a car.
The wired bike a rocket, I had a chance to spend a few hours on the beast.What a blast, and on a bike like that most folks don't pedal.Yet having pedals makes the bike legal.. Glad your having a ton of fun.. just be careful ..Any ebike that can do 40 plus can get one in a pickle..
There are a number of well made cadence bikes made whats your budget.. I can surely point you you in a direction where you will get a quality ebike with great support..
@@DaleAdcock-m7s Sorry for getting back to you so late, I have to assume that your going for a Torque bike vs a Cadence bike. There's really only one company in your price range that we really like. We are looking into getting our next review bike. Both are made by Hovsco. Bothe bikes use the motor we really like, made by Sutto . This motor is exceptional make a true 90 nm most motors say it make 85 nm and barely makes 50nm. Sutto is honest. Both bikes use trigger shifters . ( we do not like the cheap thumb shifters) Both.bikes use the thumb throttle, much better then the cheap twist throttle ( Which is on of off You can't adjust the throttle ) Both bikes have really decent front forks , and both bikes come with 2 year warranty. .The one thing I really likes, you get to deal with Annie at Hovsco. She's one of the higher ups ( I have her direct line ) the service is amazing. Now let's talk watts . 750 watts is legal in all 50 states ( doesn't mean they are going to come and get you if it's 1000 watts ) you can have a 1000 watt motor ( some of them can give you1300 watts peak and get 75 nm ) and you can have a Sutto 750 watt motor 1300 peak that gives you 1300 watts and gives you a true 90 nm of torque .along .. Quality of the motor , what controller with the motor win every time vs a cheap 1000 watt motor with a 18 amp controller gives you 900 1050 watts peak . Bottom a better built motor, and a 25 amp better controller.. I would not recommend a bike I would not own. Ok now the names of the bikes Ones 20" Hovsco. called the Beta and it is a little beast, and it's step through. The others called the Hovsco Alpha . The Beta comes with a 15 ah battery either Samsung or LG batteries, The Alpha comes with a 20 ah battery and comes loaded. I do recommend you get Step as it's just easier to get on and off, The Alpha comes in both Step Through and Step over. You decide. Now I highly recommend you decide quickly as the new tariffs start June10th. Also ask Annie for the mothers day price ( she might be able to pull it of ) Here is Annies direct phone# 909-900-8695. Just tell her Ron from Instant Power 322 .We spoke today. Any questions Just ask Ron
looking for an ebike to fit me. my legs are short, only 28 inches to reach ground. I need something that is stable on bumpy gravel roads. must have torque sensor and fork with shocks. I climb steep hills so need decent torque. maybe 750 W motor, class 2. ( trails in Colorado dont allow class 3) The FLX (superhuman f5 trail) would be nice except it is too big for me to reach the ground. the Biktrix juggernaults seat heights are also too tall for me as well as their other bikes except the little 20" and I dont want wheels that small. I like the seat height of the velotric discover 2 but am not sure about how well it would do on gravel roads. any suggestions?
Becca I have to really put on my thinking cap, I have to find out a few things. One if they have a Juggernaut in a 16” frame. If they do this will solve all your problems, second I have not heard from anyone they are checking for class 2s or 3 s in Colorado. Biktrix you can get them both ways.class 2 or 3 it’s programmed at the factory. . The F5 is to tall for you for sure. There’s another problem hub motors are not good a climbing steep hill, you need the extra torque of a mid motor, let me see. I love a challenge, and thanks for measuring. I’ll get back to you by ( it’s already Tuesday) today ..Ron..
OK I have the Biktrix Juggernaut Ultra, my inseam is 29” I’m now 5’7” have shrunk almost 2” in 71 years. ( don’t get old ) the bike I have is 18” frame now I can touch. My toes on the pavement. The 16” frame would mean I could put my shoes on the ground quite easily. I’ll talk with Mark Peacock today and go over the measurements. If I’m correct this bike will give you the correct posture for peddling, and being able to touch the pavement with your toes. Also there are lower seats. One thing because you inseam is 28”you like myself will find suspension posts ( difficult) to use as they add 2” to 3 “ to the seat hight. Ron..
Becca I spoke with Mark Peacock at Biktrix he asides long as you know that you will be on the balls of your feet the Juggernaut Ultra Duo 4 16" you will be able to be comfortable on the bike. We also discussed the fact that you will be on a lot of hills and trails. We both agreed that a Mid Motor with 160 nm of torque will give you plenty of power. If you would like you can txt me or call and we can a few things like getting around class 2 to class 3. It's actually quite easy. Please get back to me at at your leisure Ron Instant Power 322 ..
Thank you for your video. I have been riding a cadence sensor bike for a few years now. I ride 15-30 miles each time - and I am always pdealing. I just brought a bike with a Bosch Performance line Speed motor. I am disappointed: I am having to pedal significantly harder. I don't know if its my age, or the fact that I have injuries from two motorcycle accidents - but I am torn on whether to keep my new bike. Do you have any comments?
.. My guess is you do not have the benefit of a throttle, and an under powered ebike.. Another point it seems that your in pretty decent shape, having a mid motor bike is different in the sense that your gears are your transmission, right now I suggest that you go to lower gears to make peddling easier, and you go to the highest P A S level to make easier.. When I first went to a Mid Motor to be frank I suddenly realized that I wasn't in such great shape as I though as I was also peddling a lot more also. I really had to learn that gears where the transmission and shifting was paramount in me having a good ride without killing myself. Once I really learned this I found it so much more enjoyable. One point all of my mid motor bikes have throttles.. So when I do need a break I can use the throttle.I'm not sure a throttle can be used with the Bosch Performance motor. It's worth checking out. Over the pond they have limits to the size of the motors, 250 watt , 350 watt. and are limited to class 1 bikes. And one last point, Tom we both believed ( I also had cadence bikes ) That we where really doing all the peddling I found out quickly that I was not.. If you really are struggling it might mean having to switch to a bike with a higher nm, and one with a throttle.. You didn't give me the name of the bike. I'm just guessing a Trek, Specialized both very nice rides. Please if you have more question ask. All The Best
@@Instantpower332 Thank you for your comments. My cadence bike is a Rad Mission - so no gears. New bike is Cannondale Tesoro Neo 2. Supposedly 85nm. I have no doubt that I was not contributing much previously. And, yes, I am having to learn to shift for the terrain. I will keep working at it. Which mid-drive bikes offer a throttle? I am disappointed in Cannondale: they did not answer the phone when I called and did not respond to my voicemail. I did get some help from an LBS but he claimed that he could not order the bike for me - that I needed to order from Cannondale and drop-ship to him. He said "it's the future". (that LBS do assembly, service, and accessories.)
@@tomchanter62 Tom it's to bad but I see this more and more , Cannondale is a nice bike though. I just reviewed one of the most amazing mid motor bikes that I have seen. It's called the. FLX Step Through 2.0 and has some amazing components. Instead of going on about the bike I do go into detail in the review we just did on the bike A few things, the motor is a Bafang M 600 with 120 nm , front fork is a Suntour through axel Nex ,derailleur is a 10 speed Deore . Loaded the bikes around $2000 and it comes with a throttle if you get the touring package.. Biggest thing with these folks is when you call they answer, and theses folks stock every part for every bike they sell. And 5 year 5000 mile warranty.. Hope this helps .. They changed their name to Super Human bikes ..
I was thinking about your question, On one of my mid motor bikes .. The FLX Step Through we had the option of changing the P A S 1 through 5 , 1 through 9, or 1 though 3.. Putting the bike in 1 through 3 made it easier to pedal.. Not sure if you can adjust yours. But if you can give it a shot, might make it easier.. Sure did on the FLX..
@@tomchanter62 First thing I would try is max settings in the easiest gear. If that doesn't work, get a different bike. REI sells Cannondale ebikes so maybe they have advice too.
Only thing i dont like with torgue it doesn't give u full power it will go to a speed and thats it but they are much more comfy but man there expensive and u need a compapible controller means more money
I have ridden the Nomad 1 a number of times, Bottom line it's an OK cadence bike. Problem I have a bad knee and my right hip has arthritis in it big time. Cadence bikes did not make it better. Yes all I had to do was rotate the peddles and the bike flew, I needed to build up strength. Getting cadence bikes did nothing for me to really get any exercise at all. Folks keep on saying torque bikes really make you work. Well if you put the bike in P A S 1 and put the bike in minimum 7.. ( Any good ebike should have a minimum of 8 preferable 9 gears ) It should not have a cheap thumb shifter, and a Tourney derailleur . A good front fork is paramount. Most bikes under $2000 have $29 dollar front forks, and garbage components . I would like you to go. to your Velotric dealer and try the Discover 2 it's a torque sensor and it's also the best bike they make. Give it a try.. Now if you want something that has both, cadence and torque sensors the Juiced RipCurrent S. The difference most cadence bikes under $2500 use either 8 or 12 magnets to send the information to the controller.. Juiced uses a different system which instead off 8 or 12 times a second. The system they use is cadence is 100 times a second and torque 1000 times second. Now if you want one of the best bike builders go to BikTrix in Canada you will have lots of questions. Look forward to all of them.. All The Best..
@@Moondog2010A Not at all the Pace 3 isa bike we recommend. Aventon makes nice bikes I had 2 the Aventure 1 and the Aventure 2. AS soon as they went to torque speed sensors these guys where way ahead of just about everybody. Glad your happy, drives me nuts when people go, out and spend $2000 on a cadence bike..
Why do you keep speaking negatively about cadence sensors. They serve a purpose and there is nothing wrong with them. I have two bikes one with torque (aima Big Sur)and one cadence(magicycle Deer)I like them both and actually prefer the Magicycle’s Deer. I can do so much more with the settings to tweak to meet my needs. On a side note replacing a cadence sensor is much easier.
One I had the Deer I considerate to be one of the worst bikes I have ridden, the geometry is completely wrong. The tail wags so bad you get an oscillation that's dangerous .It's way to heavy and can barley get out of it's way. 2 cadence is a cheap way to build a bike cadence with a torque fine.. I find it remarkable that MagiCycle put a cheap cadence in it's premier bike along with the cheapest Tourney derailleur. We do not sugar coat anything, as an engineer cadence vs torque .. Torque wins every time. . The only good point that I can find with the Deer is yes you can change the settings. Otherwise it's a kluge that handles like a bus.. And No I still do not like cadence.. In certain situations fine, unless you want a scooter .. Or you have health reasons.. I have been on the BigSur and in my book it blows away the megacycle Deer..
Just subscribed in spite of your torque sensor bias. Wife and I own 2 budget folders with cadence sensors. My GForce T42 is 80nm at full throttle but I programmed PAS1 with 15% power, ie, 8 mph. Very tame, no jerky at all. Wife's AULOOR is not programmable and PAS1 is 15mph which is too fast and is jerky. I rode her bike and told her to take off PAS1, gentle throttle. She can throttle 3 mph in PAS5. She now has no problem riding her 1st ever ebike!
Having had so many e-bikes, and trying a lot of cheap and more expensive cadence bikes.. I really
like them evenness . They are not smooth, and will always be jerky. Yet having any e-bkes brings so much pleasure. Does it matter.. Thanks for your comment ..
Im happy with cadence and hub drive. Suits me for longer commuting and easier maintenance that i can do myself.
In response to cadence as far as taking care of a cadence bike, theres really no difference in cadence vs a torque bike.. Hub drives are a bit easier to take care of no question as it’s a more simple of a system. One point it’s really get’s down to what works best for you. All in all a torque bikes is just as easy as a cadence bike. What really matters is you being happy on your bike, and riding it. Can’t tell
how many bikes, when first bought are used a few times and sit…
@@Instantpower332 Well said and thanks for your video & reply 👍
Great insight for a new e - bike shopper.
Looking for your first ebike is really getting tough, with over 250 company's selling ( Mid Fi mass produced ) ebikes. let me know what your budget is .I have a number of companies that I recommend and can get you a discount. Glad you enjoyed the video we are working on a number of new ones..
I personally love Mid Drives.. Better balance, but what makes them is you can actually use all of the gears . I have 2 the BikTrix Juggernaut Ultra Duo 4 . One beautiful rise .. With the Bafang M620 160 nm., is a blast to ride. I have done 40mph and it kept on pulling. My friend Paul
also cameraman has done 44.9. I do not recommend going this fast, but you have we where curious .. A good Mid Drive puts you in the bracket of the best ebikes. Only problem is a lot of company's are throwing them together . They start out going in the right direction, then fall on their faces, by using garbage components.. Let me know if this is where you are heading glad to help..
Direct to consumers ebike company are way to go
I agree, if one looks carefully. Their are a number of quality e-bikes. I still do not care for cadence e-bikes, and have had a number of them. Bottom Line any e-bike is a blast.. ..
@Instantpower332 Yeah cadence sensor are stupid .Ride1up and Aventon makes really good torque sensor bikes with affordable price.
I too have just subscribed, and up to today, I didn't know the was 2 systems for pedal assist , now I understand why my wife hates her 20 x 3" step thru bike, so my question to you is : Is there a way to add a torque sensor to her bike and integrate with the cadence sensor or is there a conversion kit available ? BTW thank you so much for your excellent video , I know more today than yesterday!
Unfortunately. no you can't switch a bike over . ( On an absolute with tons of money yes ) anything can be done. But really No..Thanks for your question ..
A cadence bike gives you the choice to pedal a lot or a little, a torque sensor means you must pedal all the time.
No a cadence you (yes can use the throttle ) still have to pedal to get the bike going. You most surely do not have to work very hard. A torque speed sensor works on peddle pressure, but if you want to take it easy just boost up the P A S and say in 4 or 5 it's really easy peddling. The really nice thing about torque sensor is it's so much easier to keep a constant speed. Where cadence a lot of times it's jerky and not a smooth transition to getting power to the back wheel..
@@Instantpower332 , I can deal with the jerky motion but a friend of mine recently bought a Cannondale mountain style bike with torque sensor, he has 3 pas levels, we went on a ride and hit a fairly steep hill, I had to put in effort to make to the top but he almost didn't make it on a $6700 bike
@@mikebordeaux8218 You are preaching to the choir, sure they make a nice bike ( Very expensive ) and very under powered . I have 2 cadence bikes ones the Juiced RipCurrent, 750 watt 25 amp controller 52 volt battery . I can pull 1300. watts and this bike for a hub motor flys. It's also a torque/cadence bike. The difference in this cadence system is instead of maybe checking 12 times a second at best it's 100 times a second much better. I have a cheap Freesky Rocky very well built and stupid fast 28 mph in PAS 5 and all you have to do is move the peddles. Frankly it's unsafe at that speed. Canondale are just under powered , and over priced..
@@mikebordeaux8218 problem with torque sensors that they configured different from every manufacture. Cheap Chinese on highest PAS usually gives you full power(to get around Europe law where throttle is not allowed)while others vary. For example I've seen many(specially European companies) on highest PAS give you back same power as you make.for example if you make 250W with legs motor will give you 250W.which makes Ebikes completely useless and overpriced,so better test bicycle in shop before buying
Right on for cadence vs torque. How bout sharing thoughts on mid drive vs hub drive
Mid drives vs Hub.. Sorry was doing 2 things at the same time , forgot to mention Hub vs Mid drive . Hub motors do not use any of the gears on the bike, you hit the throttle that's it you get total output depending what P A S you in. Hubs are easier to use, as you really don't have to shift, by using the throttle the bike ( Most will go to 20 MPH ) regardless of what gear your in.. Mid drive s you get a lot more torque as you are shifting the bikes the same as shifting a car. And because of this they are way better for hills, and your battery can go much farther. Hubs are easier, but Mid drives are so much better for balance and torque ( Power )
Sorry Rich I missed your question on Mid Drives.. Let's say I love them. and have 2. What a lot of folks don't know is they came out first quite few years ago, before hub drives it's a really great system as long as you understand it's almost identical to driving a stick. Your transmission is the gears on the bike. This means a small motor can have a lot of torque. Both of my bikes have Bafang Motors ones the Bafang M600 which has 120 nm the other has the Bafang M620 which has 160 nm which on just about every ebike is double the power. Having a Mid Drive gives the bike better balance, most have torque speed sensors ( All of the kits you see are cadence ) As long as you do not mind shifting , and having a torque system it's such a pleasure to have total control of the bike, The gears on a hub drive have know effect on the motor. and thats the one thing that's nice about hub drives. You break a chain you can still get back. I snapped my chain on the Juggernaut had to call my wife to come and get me.. Hub drives are also quiet, one thing is though you have to shift to a lower gear when coming to a stop. Think about coming to a stop sign with a stick shift and living the car in 4th gear. It's the same thing with a mid motor. It takes a short while to get accustomed to the bike. All In
All I'm never going back to a hub drive. I will keep my Juiced RipCurrent so when friends and family want to go for a scoot. Since I haver 2 ones The FLX Step Through 2.0 ( Best Deal on The Planet ) You can. scroll down and see the review it's got the 750 watt Bafang M600 120 nm and The Juggernaut Ultra Duo 4 Bafang M620 160 nm that's the one where I snapped my chain. One too high of a gear on Sport 5 and had the Hamer down completely my fault. One learns quickly not to that..
Ok Hub Vs Mid Drive Hubs are easier for new riders. You really don't have to worry about shifting. , Some people say it's easier maintenance. I'm in the middle on that. Both systems are pretty simple . Hubs are easier ,as you don't have to worry about shifting
Mid Drives You have a lot more power for hills, and a lot more power by design and you get more miles out of your batteries.You have to shifted when coming to a full stop you have to be in a lower gear. If not you will wear out your chain and cassette, and possibly the motor..If you don't use the gears as you are supposed to , yes there will be more maintenance, and cost.
Bottom Hubs are better for the general public who just want to get on and ride with no worries
Mid Drives are all better if you understand what you have to do, and way more power for hills and our fun.. Ron
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Sir, could you please suggest any technical questions that should be asked up front? The difference between the magnates & crystals are interesting. Not knowing Jack about them I’d ask the sales company to explain. The jerking on the initial throttle input is concerning. Thanks for that one.
Dave, if you have seen a weigh station on the highway where the have the semi’s
come in the are using strain gauges. What these gauges are are crystals, that produces an electrical signal when squeezed. A torque sensor is just that crystal’s that are set up in a way, when you press down on the peddles the Torque sensor produces a signal telling the computer how much power to go the motor. Now a cadence sensor ( cheap ones ) have ( think of a clock ) and the magnets are on all the hours. This is attached right next to the crank arm, when you peddle you rotate the clock face which has the magnets. The magnets when spinning produce a signal that a reader sees and tells the controller full power. Really good
cadence sensors use the same principle as the torque sensor. They just aren’t as accurate. A torque sensor measures 1000 times a second, a much better cadence sensor can go as high as 100 times a second. A cheap cadence sensor is either 8 times or 12 times a second depending on how many magnets they use. I hope this answers your question. And thanks for asking..
This is good info, I am looking at ETrikes I like the Puckipuppy the best so far BUT it does have a cadence sensor, but it has a mid drive motor so I am not sure it that will make a lot of difference. But this is just more good info. I would love to have a 2 wheeler but I am in my 70s not and as sure as I once was on my balance ability.
Puckpuppy from everything I have heard and read is Ok. Plus the differential is again very good, I don't think at least right now any trikes are torque bikes..
@@Instantpower332 thanks
My 50th birthday is next month. Empty nesters here and really love the idea of going out and biking with my husband. I really like the Portola by Ride1up. Hearing mixed reviews. Can you give me some insight?
I would not recommend any bikes in that price range. Please your first bikes should be quality..One when you do outgrow
the bikes you can get almost all you money back. 2 you really want torque speed sensor bikes. and 3 you want bikes that are very safe with excellent components .I really only recommend one bike in what you folks are looking for .it's called the Hovsco Beta, and it's gorgeous , Sutto motor (one of the best hub motors ) threw front axel. and quality components.hydraulic brakes,, and stunning paint.. 2 year warranty. I know Annie ,a higher up at Hovsco so you folks can deal direct, the service and support is remarkable . If you do talk with Annie ask her for a discount she always finds a way. If you need more information just ask .I will give you Annies direct line , just tell her Ron from Instant Power 322 we talk often.
909-900-8695. price on the Hovsco Beta was $1699 last time a checked but again asked her for a discount . And lastThe Portala isn't what Unwound want 1st riders to be on.. its not very good.. Ron...
@@Instantpower332fantastic thank you! I’ll share this with my husband!
I bought a ride1up turris 3 months ago and have 600 miles on it already. Super safe and soft power in lower assists and very fast in assist 4 and 5. Zero problems and no flats. 40 miles of range in assist 2. I think its their best bike in their lineup. Has cadence sensor and throttle and the whites beautiful
@@polok890 I think finding a. bike , 1st bike is so eye opening and a blast. One thing you have a cadence bike. .A lot of folks are happy with there cadence bikes, and a lot of them very unhappy. I started out 20 years ago with a Trek torque bike. spoiled me. Yet we have reviewed a few cadence bikes, last year. As Of 24 Instant Power 322 has gone to doing No cadence bikes to really very few hub motors. To possibly only mid motors, we have been very fortunate this year and have met some great folks. Most important have a blast..
Outstanding thank you!
Randy thanks for the compliments, I'm getting a lot of flak from some of the Facebook subscribers. I have had ebikes for over 20 years and frankly I'm really disgusted in some of the subscribers. They love to tell people that all we are doing is click bait and making money.. You have to have 10,000 subscribers to make pennies .They also have to say how wonderful there bikes are when they are literally garbage., Cadence bikes are great only if you have a disability, otherwise you will find them on every junk bike made. And reviewers get paid by the bike RESELLERS and get huge perks. I have had ebikes for over 20 years and over they years there have been some pretty decent bikes, and then comes in the RESELLERS who are buying from 4 company's in China. All you need is $100,000 grand and a name and yo'ur in the ebike business . To say I get flak would be an understatement. We call a spade a spade and right now there are 20 really decent company's who make really great bikes. We will be glad to help you get the exceptional bike, all you have to do is contact us through the UA-cam channel . This way the folks on Facebook can't make life miserable for us.. Take Care All The Best Ron
@@Instantpower332 Juiced Ripcurrent S, which I own, seems to be unique with its combination of an HD Cadence sensor + highly responsive torque sensor.
Torque Sensor all the way. I've ridden both for 6 years. When I ride a cadence sensor it feels like an on/off button. I feel like I have to adjust my force and pedal assist to the bike vs a torque sensor which feels like the bike power adjusts to my pedal input. I have a Biktrix Juggernaut Ultra Duo now.
what 20” folding bike would you recommend
There is only one folding ebike that meets our standards. It's made by Hovsco and it's very well built. A Sutto 750 watt motor that has a real 90 NM of torque 15 ah battery , the front fork is a through axel ball bearings , rims are double walled , Hydraulic brakes.this bikes so much better the any folding bike .. And the bikes using a Torque speed sensor.. I had this season all planned out and we are going to be doing either the Hovsco Beta or the Alpha. Both gems . Another plus is I have a direct # to Annie one of the higher ups at Hovsco. You by pass the 800 numbers and you can call her on her direct line. If you want a folding ebike this is
the best one for the money. Another stellar by is the Hovsco Alpha . Same specs except the battery is a 20 ah and it's a 26"...
here's Annies direct line 909-900-8695 ask her for the Father's Day discount. Cant hurt.. Any questions please ask Ron
You can get the most power in the highest PAS. It's still not bad, but compared to a cadence bike they give you full output. ( which is what a don't care for. ) Both fit folks needs, for me its a torque
I have arthritis in my knees. I'd like an affordable all terrain bike. I'm 5'0. Have you tested the Velotric Nomad 1? I live in Canada so affordable quality options are limited. Thanks!
I have a wired bike. It's cadence. You don't have to pedal at all and just use the throttle if you don't want to throttle. Better yet, when going down hill if you want to pedal and get exercise going downhill just put PAS on 0 and use the weight of the bike against you. No issue with PAS at all. Sorta like shifting a car.
The wired bike a rocket, I had a chance to spend a few hours on the beast.What a blast, and on a bike like that most folks don't pedal.Yet having pedals makes the bike legal.. Glad your having a ton of fun.. just be careful ..Any ebike that can do 40 plus can get one in a pickle..
I'm an above knee amputee.I can't pedal.Can I ride an ebike without pedaling at all?
There are a number of well made cadence bikes made whats your budget.. I can surely point you you in a direction where you will get a quality ebike with great support..
@@Instantpower332 I also want something over 1000 watts.I guess my budget would be around $1500.
@@DaleAdcock-m7s Sorry for getting back to you so late, I have to assume that your going for a Torque bike vs a Cadence bike. There's really only one company in your price range that we really like. We are looking into getting our next review bike. Both are made by Hovsco. Bothe bikes use the motor we really like, made by Sutto . This motor is exceptional make a true 90 nm most motors say it make 85 nm and barely makes 50nm. Sutto is honest. Both bikes use trigger shifters . ( we do not like the cheap thumb shifters) Both.bikes use the thumb throttle, much better then the cheap twist throttle ( Which is on of off You can't adjust the throttle ) Both bikes have really decent front forks , and both bikes come with 2 year warranty. .The one thing I really likes, you get to deal with Annie at Hovsco. She's one of the higher ups ( I have her direct line ) the service is amazing. Now let's talk watts . 750 watts is legal in all 50 states ( doesn't mean they are going to come and get you if it's 1000 watts ) you can have a 1000 watt motor ( some of them can give you1300 watts peak and get 75 nm ) and you can have a Sutto 750 watt motor 1300 peak that gives you 1300 watts and gives you a true 90 nm of torque .along .. Quality of the motor , what controller with the motor win every time vs a cheap 1000 watt motor with a 18 amp controller gives you 900 1050 watts peak . Bottom a better built motor, and a 25 amp better controller.. I would not recommend a bike I would not own. Ok now the names of the bikes Ones 20" Hovsco. called the Beta and it is a little beast, and it's step through. The others called the Hovsco Alpha . The Beta comes with a 15 ah battery either Samsung or LG batteries, The Alpha comes with a 20 ah battery and comes loaded. I do recommend you get Step as it's just easier to get on and off, The Alpha comes in both Step Through and Step over. You decide. Now I highly recommend you decide quickly as the new tariffs start June10th. Also ask Annie for the mothers day price ( she might be able to pull it of ) Here is Annies direct phone# 909-900-8695. Just tell her Ron from Instant Power 322 .We spoke today. Any questions Just ask Ron
looking for an ebike to fit me. my legs are short, only 28 inches to reach ground. I need something that is stable on bumpy gravel roads. must have torque sensor and fork with shocks. I climb steep hills so need decent torque. maybe 750 W motor, class 2. ( trails in Colorado dont allow class 3) The FLX (superhuman f5 trail) would be nice except it is too big for me to reach the ground. the Biktrix juggernaults seat heights are also too tall for me as well as their other bikes except the little 20" and I dont want wheels that small. I like the seat height of the velotric discover 2 but am not sure about how well it would do on gravel roads. any suggestions?
Becca I have to really put on my thinking cap, I have to find out a few things. One if they have a Juggernaut in a 16” frame. If they do this will solve all your problems, second I have not heard from anyone they are checking for class 2s or 3 s in Colorado. Biktrix you can get them both ways.class 2 or 3 it’s programmed at the factory. . The F5 is to tall for you for sure. There’s another problem hub motors are not good a climbing steep hill, you need the extra torque of a mid motor, let me see. I love a challenge, and thanks for measuring. I’ll get back to you by ( it’s already Tuesday) today ..Ron..
OK I have the Biktrix Juggernaut Ultra, my inseam is 29” I’m now 5’7” have shrunk almost 2” in 71 years. ( don’t get old ) the bike I have is 18” frame now I can touch. My toes on the pavement. The 16” frame would mean I could put my shoes on the ground quite easily. I’ll talk with Mark Peacock today and go over the measurements. If I’m correct this bike will give you the correct posture for peddling, and being able to touch the pavement with your toes. Also there are lower seats. One thing because you inseam is 28”you like myself will find suspension posts ( difficult) to use as they add 2” to 3 “ to the seat hight. Ron..
Becca I spoke with Mark Peacock at Biktrix he asides long as you know that you will be on the balls of your feet the
Juggernaut Ultra Duo 4 16" you will be able to be comfortable on the bike. We also discussed the fact that you will be
on a lot of hills and trails. We both agreed that a Mid Motor with 160 nm of torque will give you plenty of power. If you
would like you can txt me or call and we can a few things like getting around class 2 to class 3. It's actually quite easy.
Please get back to me at at your leisure Ron Instant Power 322 ..
Thank you for your video. I have been riding a cadence sensor bike for a few years now. I ride 15-30 miles each time - and I am always pdealing. I just brought a bike with a Bosch Performance line Speed motor. I am disappointed: I am having to pedal significantly harder. I don't know if its my age, or the fact that I have injuries from two motorcycle accidents - but I am torn on whether to keep my new bike. Do you have any comments?
.. My guess is you do not have the benefit of a throttle, and an under powered ebike.. Another point it seems that your in pretty decent shape, having a mid motor bike is different in the sense that your gears are your transmission, right now I suggest that you go to lower gears to make peddling easier, and you go to the highest P A S level to make easier.. When I first went to a Mid Motor to be frank I suddenly realized that I wasn't in such great shape as I though as I was also peddling a lot more also. I really had to learn that gears where the transmission and shifting was paramount in me having a good ride without killing myself. Once I really learned this I found it so much more enjoyable. One point all of my mid motor bikes have throttles.. So
when I do need a break I can use the throttle.I'm not sure a throttle can be used with the Bosch Performance motor. It's worth checking out. Over the pond they have limits to the size of the motors, 250 watt , 350 watt. and are limited to class 1
bikes. And one last point, Tom we both believed ( I also had cadence bikes ) That we where really doing all the peddling I found out quickly that I was not.. If you really are struggling it might mean having to switch to a bike with a higher nm, and
one with a throttle.. You didn't give me the name of the bike. I'm just guessing a Trek, Specialized both very nice rides. Please if you have more question ask. All The Best
@@Instantpower332 Thank you for your comments. My cadence bike is a Rad Mission - so no gears. New bike is Cannondale Tesoro Neo 2. Supposedly 85nm. I have no doubt that I was not contributing much previously. And, yes, I am having to learn to shift for the terrain. I will keep working at it. Which mid-drive bikes offer a throttle? I am disappointed in Cannondale: they did not answer the phone when I called and did not respond to my voicemail. I did get some help from an LBS but he claimed that he could not order the bike for me - that I needed to order from Cannondale and drop-ship to him. He said "it's the future". (that LBS do assembly, service, and accessories.)
@@tomchanter62 Tom it's to bad but I see this more and more , Cannondale is a nice bike though. I just reviewed one of the most amazing mid motor bikes that I have seen. It's called the. FLX Step Through 2.0 and has some amazing
components. Instead of going on about the bike I do go into detail in the review we just did on the bike A few things, the motor is a Bafang M 600 with 120 nm , front fork is a Suntour through axel Nex ,derailleur is a 10 speed Deore . Loaded the bikes around $2000 and it comes with a throttle if you get the touring package.. Biggest thing with these folks is when you call they answer, and theses folks stock every part for every bike they sell. And 5 year 5000 mile warranty.. Hope this helps .. They changed their name to Super Human bikes ..
I was thinking about your question, On one of my mid motor bikes .. The FLX Step Through we had the option of changing
the P A S 1 through 5 , 1 through 9, or 1 though 3.. Putting the bike in 1 through 3 made it easier to pedal.. Not sure if you can adjust yours. But if you can give it a shot, might make it easier.. Sure did on the FLX..
@@tomchanter62 First thing I would try is max settings in the easiest gear. If that doesn't work, get a different bike. REI sells Cannondale ebikes so maybe they have advice too.
Only thing i dont like with torgue it doesn't give u full power it will go to a speed and thats it but they are much more comfy but man there expensive and u need a compapible controller means more money
I have ridden the Nomad 1 a number of times, Bottom line it's an OK cadence bike. Problem I have a bad knee and my right hip has arthritis in it big time. Cadence bikes did not make it better. Yes all I had to do was rotate the peddles and the bike flew, I needed to build up strength. Getting cadence bikes did nothing for me to really get any exercise at all. Folks keep on saying torque bikes really make you work. Well if you put the bike in P A S 1 and put the bike in minimum 7.. ( Any good ebike should have a minimum of 8 preferable 9 gears ) It should not have a cheap thumb shifter, and a Tourney derailleur . A good front fork is paramount. Most bikes under $2000 have $29 dollar front forks, and garbage components . I would like you to go. to your Velotric dealer and try the Discover 2 it's a torque sensor and it's also the best bike they make. Give it a try.. Now if you want something that has both, cadence and torque sensors the Juiced RipCurrent S. The difference most cadence bikes under $2500 use either 8 or 12 magnets to send the information to the controller.. Juiced uses a different system which instead off 8 or 12 times a second. The system they use is cadence is 100 times a second and torque 1000 times second. Now if you want one of the best bike builders go to BikTrix in Canada you will have lots of questions. Look forward to all of them.. All The Best..
So my Aventon Pace 500.3 is garbage cause it cost me $2000. That is interesting cause it has been running like a champ! L0L
@@Moondog2010A Not at all the Pace 3 isa bike we recommend. Aventon makes nice bikes I had 2 the Aventure 1 and the Aventure 2. AS soon as they went to torque speed sensors these guys where way ahead of just about everybody. Glad your happy, drives me nuts when people go, out and spend $2000 on a cadence bike..
Why do you keep speaking negatively about cadence sensors. They serve a purpose and there is nothing wrong with them. I have two bikes one with torque (aima Big Sur)and one cadence(magicycle Deer)I like them both and actually prefer the Magicycle’s Deer. I can do so much more with the settings to tweak to meet my needs.
On a side note replacing a cadence sensor is much easier.
One I had the Deer I considerate to be one of the worst bikes I have ridden, the geometry is completely wrong. The tail wags so bad you get an oscillation that's dangerous .It's way to heavy and can barley get out of it's way. 2 cadence is a cheap way to build a bike cadence with a torque fine.. I find it remarkable that MagiCycle put a cheap cadence in it's premier bike along with the cheapest
Tourney derailleur. We do not sugar coat anything, as an engineer cadence vs torque .. Torque wins every time. . The only good point that I can find with the Deer is yes you can change the settings. Otherwise it's a kluge that handles like a bus.. And No I still do not like cadence.. In certain situations fine, unless you want a scooter .. Or you have health reasons.. I have been on the BigSur and in my book it blows away the megacycle Deer..