Shimano Clutch Adjustments | Tech Tuesday
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- Опубліковано 25 жов 2021
- Truman's got a fussy Shimano XTR RD-M9120 derailleur on his hands, and to figure out what's wrong he's going to need to get inside and dig around. Join Truman as he makes some Shimano clutch adjustments, on today's TECH TUESDAY!
Shimano XTR RD-M9120-SGS: bike.shimano.com/en-EU/produc...
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Thank God you released this. My shimano clutches are just absolutely bonkers in terms of maintenance. I have even just turned the clutch off to alleviate my clutch sticking.
Thank you. At 7:40, when you put the slotted piece over the clutch lever, there is a cam on that part and it can rotate 180 degrees so you have to be careful to get it the right way or when you flip the clutch lever, it will not add tension and the lever will be floppy. I did this last night and can't wait to ride and feel the difference. Over 6,000 off-road miles on my XTR derailleur and I have never done this maintenance step. I am Barnett's and Shimano certified and worked in the bicycle industry 22 years and just didn't think to service the clutch.
Dang, you are really turning up the production value on these Tech Tuesday videos! Love to see it :)
you guys are absolute legends. ive had it apart several times but never took the clutch apart. Also the torque wrench trick is nuts!
This cleared up Shimano’s paper instructions, which say don’t get grease on the clutch area, which I took to mean no grease on those friction surfaces, when what it really meant was the one-way roller clutch.
Great video. This must be one of the most complex maintenance jobs on a bike! But good to see there's still a time for the old style torque wrench.
So well explained, so well edited. Awesome Video. Makes me feel confident to check on derailleur parts and actually know what to do. Thanks a lot!!!
Truman, this has been super-helpful. I've had the shop I bought my used bike from from 'fix' this problem twice (according to their diagnosis) with the same result - intermittent sticking resulting in chain popping off as soon as I hit the trail. Can'teven freewheel. I'll do this myself properly, and if I'm still having binding issues, I'll tear the hub apart too. Great video!
Great video Park Tool and Truman.Learnt something new today thanks!!
Great, thanks, will check my clutches now! Makes it look very straight forward!
The best maintenance videos on UA-cam, thanks ☮️
Well done! Now I know!!! Thanks to you and Park Tool!
Wow, I actually didn't know that it can get that hot inside the clutch, I would've used regular all-purpose grease there. Great video!
It’s not getting hot inside the clutch, I have no idea why he’s saying the grease got burnt and then mentions high temp grease…
One would have to take a measurement but yeah, not sure it's actually getting hotter than what a conventional grease would handle. It's no active breaking surface. The reason one should use a specific grease though, has more to do with friction IMO: the clutch/jaw assembly does move a little to resist induced chain slack, meaning the mechanism is not trying to lock things out completely but merely add some friction (hence some heat buildup for sure). One therefore wants to avoid metal-on-metal, hence some lubrification required, but it needs to be a very thin, consistent layer. That's why a low viscosity, thin (ie. not thick, buttery) grease is expected: cSt ~40, NGLI 0.
I would like to see someone measure the temp before I'd buy that it's getting that hot in there. I believe HPG-1 is lighter weight than their PPL-1, so that may be some of it. On top of that, the Shadow grease is a calcium sulfonate grease, as is HPG-1. The PPL-1 is a polyurea may not be compatible if the Shimano grease isn't cleaned out.
@@Montblanc1986 just turn on your clutch and move it back and forth than put your fingers on it, be careful 😂
Awesome video. Thanks for the confidence builder.
there is no better explination availiable anyware... BIG THUMBS UP
This vid just helped me solve 4 weeks of shifting woes due to misadjusted clutch. Thanks!!
Great video and worked on a 11 speed SLX derailleur. Did not remove it from the bike. Easy enough on a bike stand.
Excellent video work guys…. Nicely narrated too 👍🏻
Excellent video! Very well explained. Recently I had the heart to service the clutch of a neighbour's Shimano Deore XT after he was complaining about his chain always falling from the chain ring. It was my first time working on a derailleur clutch. After unsrewing the cap I saw a mixture of dirt, rust, moisture... The friction band was like completely seized onto the cylindrical spindle. I thoroughly cleaned all parts and applied grease to the surfaces concerned. Unknowingly I used a universal grease... I couldn't imagine that a high performance grease was the one to use, couldn't imagine that the temperature there could go up that much... I'm now thinking if redoing the servicing with the right hpg grease. Thanks a lot for your comprehensive explanation. Also I will use a torque wrench to do the final adjustment.
Great video! Exactly what I needed to diagnose & service my derailleur.
Great editing and instruction!
Holy moly! thanks for sharing this knowledge!!!
Thank you for the helpful video. Yesterday I tried it with my RD-5120. When you put the cover back on, you have to put the clutch band deep enough or the head of the tension adjuster will bump into it and the cover will not stick. I think this is also a point to be aware of. My impression was that if the torque of the friction was not reduced to about 3Nm with a tension adjuster, the cage would not move smoothly as in the video. Although Shimano's instruction manual says 3.5 nm - 5.4 nm. By the way, I'm a Japan person, so I didn't understand the correct meaning of "have a clutch day" :)
Took a daunting task and made it easy. Thanks!
🔥👌This tutorial is ingenious! Explains all the mechanics yet keeps it simple to step by step maintain this part of the RD.
[Though I think that the clutch systems of the GRX series ( and the Ultegra RX) are designed a lot simpler, there is no cap to adjust the clutch band from the outside, and no torx option to adjust from the cage side.]
This totally fixed my bike ! Thank you thank you thank you !
Many thanks kind sir!
Thank you, I just successfully finished my first clutch service.
Great vid 👌🏻plus just found a use for the torque tool I had free with my Canyon Spectral 😀
thanks park tool!
Park tools is the best!
Thank you for such works is the best video. 👏
Perfect Video 😎
Could you make a comparison between the different greases that are available/you offer
i've been a bike mechanic for the last maybe 1.5-2 years or so and literally not once did it cross my mind that a derailleur clutch can actually heat up. it absolutely makes total sense though. anything that creates friction will heat up to some degree. i absolutely love learning stuff like this
What training course did you attend before becoming a Bike Mechanic?
@@adamf5942 none. I began work as a big box store mechanic where i learned the basics and then managed to get a job where they were eager to teach me rather than hire an already experience mechanic and in those years i've just learned a ton.
@@dash0173 That's brilliant, its always better when there has been an interest in it. Good luck to you on your journey with it.
Very good job 👍
You are much better than shimano tutorials
VIVA LA PARK TOOL!!!!
This video is soooo clutch!
Wet clutches in motorcycles offer the same dichotomy.. the clutch plates rely on friction but are bathed in a lubricant.
Thanks man super video❤🎉
GOOD very interesting tutorial :)
In your opening your seen pulling against the Clutch on the Cage pivot of this Derailleur, and if you notice, it's very loud and "rachety" with the Cage assy slipping quite freely for brief moments across the arc of this CCW rotation. That is Not the Clutch portion of the "Chain Stabilizer" that is breaking loose and causing the Cage assy to Rachet forward, its the Sprag Bearing INSIDE the Spring Steel Clutch Band that is ratcheting on the center Support Shaft (or P pin ("Plate" Axle) as it's referred to in the Shimano DM (Dealer Manual)). A Clutch allows for regulated slippage, or Drag, between surfaces, which is what the Spring Steel Band does that is wrapped Around the Sprag Bearing in this case. The Sprag Bearing, at the center of the Stabilizer assy, is a One Direction only Needle Bearing and is designed to Lock-Up, or stop, any rotation in the opposite direction. It's functionally the same as the Freewheeling Hub of a Cassette but locks to the Pin itself instead of a ratchet. The Needle Rollers in the Sprag Bearing are pre-loaded with Spring Steel strips behind them which allow free rotation in one direction only while providing full bearing support around the center Pin on the end of the Cage axle. When force is applied in the opposite direction, the Needle Rollers are forced into the shaft, by the spring steel strip behind each roller, and will lock the Sprag Bearing to the shaft. Sprag Bearing Needle Rollers NEED to be cleaned and lubricated or they will Not lock up on the center shaft and WILL Ratchet momentarily in the wrong direction as you've experienced here in your opener. The "Clutch" portion of this Chain "Stabilizer" assy is in fact the Steel Band that is wrapped Around the Sprag Bearing. It's metal on metal so it needs cleaning, grease and proper adjustment to work properly. Next time you have one of these Stabilizer assy's apart, separate, clean and lube the center portion, or Sprag Bearing, place it on the support shaft and test it for yourself. It's a Bearing and so should rotate Freely (CW in this case), but Lock to the Pin when force is applied the opposite direction (CCW in this case). If properly cleaned & lubed, w/ light oil, it will lock up on the shaft instantly when turned the opposite direction. Running a Sprag Bearing dry (without lubrication), will result in the bearing breaking loose from its Locking direction momentarily and appear to Ratchet, just as it did on your opening scene. You can easily test this Unique feature of this Sprag Bearing on the workshop bench and Research this type of Needle Bearing on the Web. It's often referred to as a "Clutch" Bearing but NOT because it has a Clutch function, but because it's often used w/ a Clutch assy like the Spring Steel Ban wrapped around this bearing in this case. I first learned of these unique Bearings located in the Final output gear of model R/C Helicopters which lock onto the Main Rotor shaft during powered flight but allow for Freewheeling, or Auto-Rotation landings if the engine should quit. I found out the Hard Way that an improperly maintained Sprag Bearing will slip badly when Torque is applied to its Locking feature and make for a pretty bad Bearing when Freewheeling. The Shimano DM (Dealer Manual) explains this badly, but who has ever seen a Japanese to English Maintenance/User Manual (Jinglish Manual), that got the terminology correct w/o butchering the English Language in the process ? It's the reason people Produce these video's because the Manuals SUCK. The DM DOES warn not to get Hub Grease into the Pin or Roller Bearings of this Sprag Bearing (or Clutch Bearing as it's referred to in the manual), but they DO remind you to lubricate ALL moving parts of this Derailleur in the Installation & Maintenance Notes in the Manual Intro (page 4). A Good cleaning of the Pin and the Rollers w/ a little light oil applied will make this Sprag Bearing Happy. If the Pin is corroded it's because you've let it go Dry, just replace it and Grease the Cage Sprocket end but light oil only for the Sprag Bearing and Pin.
He even pointed out that there was burnt up grease on the inside of sprag clutch!
Nice wheels on that bike
So I have a brand new xt di2 derailleur and it seems to have a decent amount of play in the clutch activation lever. Basically the pin from it can wiggle up and down. The issue is that this play allows for the chain to be a bit sloppy for the first bit of rotation before it really engages the clutch. It also seems to tighten up just fine when upshifting but then almost looses tension when downshifting regardless of the gear.
I had this issue with 2 deore derailleurs, I tried everything and still there’s a lot of chain play/slap
Ok, this has a *slightly* higher production quality than my maintenance video from a couple of years ago. 😬
Anyway, I would recommend to also disassemble the rest of the derailleur and clean the axle while you're at it, it doesn't take that much longer, but can remove another potential cause of stickiness and noise.
Great video. Sure would like to see a follow up video on the workings and maintenance of the SRAM Eagle clutch. Thanks.
Stay tuned for more clutch content!
NICE
This one time... at band clamp...
Hi, do I need to remove the chain and cable from derailleur when doing the adjustments or I can do the adjustment with all assembled ?
do you have to check the tension of the clutch (3.5nm 0 5.5nm) with the chain off? or can they chain be on?
Do you have a video for setting up a new deraiujur?
I had a problem with the clutch sliding itself off when the cover is not on. So when Im adjusting the clutch and moving the arm back and forth the clutch assembly starts sliding out.
That's fun, but what exactly do You and Calvin do? Are you simply working reps for Parktool?
What if we did put grease where it’s not suppose to be. On the inside of the roller clutch? Can it be cleaned or doesn’t it need replacing
is it necessary to remove the derailleur from the bike?
This just goes to show the more expensive the part is, the more maintenance it needs.
I wish this video had existed 2 years ago when I failed to do this 😂.
is it also necessary to lubricate the part at 4.24 ?
If I have your click type torque wrench (don’t have the beam type) how do I determine how much adjustment of the clutch is required as you did at the end of the video?
Set the click type to the desired torque and turn. you should get about half way through the action of the derailleur before the wrench activates.
@@parktool thank you. That’s what I thought after I wrote you. I also assumed that I’ll keep adjusting the clutch until the torque wrench (set to approx. 5Nm) activates at the end of the full motion (i.e. at the horizontal poison and not before)….thanks again.
Very Happy able to learn this,what Shimano model is this? Thanks
This applies to most Shimano rear derailleurs that have a clutch. The model in this video was an XTR m9100.
Do they typically come set fine when new from shimano. Or do you find that one needs to adjust and grease the clutch when the unit is brand new?
They come out of the box setup great. After time the clutch will get hot and cause issues to arise.
Hello there, will MoS2 grease work for this maintenance? what can I use instead of your HPG1 grease?
Most Moly greases will have a operational temp range of less than 300 degrees. You are after a grease with a high operational temp. HPG-1's range is -20 to 540 degrees Fahrenheit. During a rough decent your clutch will get extremely hot and you do not want to cook the grease. HPG-1 is a good choice.
Did take out and lubricate the lever though did you. Wonder why ?
Could I use assembly (red) grease instead of the HPG? Or is this a hell no type of thing?
Great video!
Not all red greases are created equal. Something like red N' tacky from Lucas would work well. It has a drop point of 540 degrees F.
Super…
Nice video sir I want to your help
I had this problem a couple weeks back and did everything that you did but it when I adjust it doesn’t do anything
Its likely that you put the band clutch on backwards or the barrel on 180 degrees off.
Good video oveall, but there is one major error. The ONLY grease that should be used between the one way bearing and the friction band is the white Shimano Nexus grease. It was specifically developed for the heat of coaster brake pads and can deliver smooth friction at the same time. No other grease will work in the clutch, at least not for very long. And, other greases can actually make the clutch feel worse.
I have the nexus grease but the action on that hi temp grease looks fantastic.
Have you tried other grease? We talked to Shimano tech reps about the temps and appropriate grease before this video. HPG's range was in acceptable parameters according to them. Shimano now does not suggest Nexus grease and has a new special grease just for these clutches, if thats what you are looking to use.
Hey Park Tool. My SLX 12 speed clutch keeps moving from on to off. My old XT did not do that. I can not see anything broken as far as i know. I jumps to off af some fair decents in Denmark. Bikeparks i happens a lot faster :-( Any ideas?
Possibly the cam assembly needs to be replaced.
@@parktool That would be a bummer on a 1 year old part. But i will look into that. Thanks 👍
Suer would!
Hello Bonjour , Super ! Thank you 👍🔥😊🚴🚵
Would the PPL-1 lube work? Does it work at the same temp?
PPL-1 has a lower working temp. It can work but you will need to do this service more often.
@@parktool Just did the service, WOW what a difference. It has never been so smooth, Thank you. I did all my bikes.
You mentioned the grease being toast on the shaft attached to the cage, under the roller clutch. But then you said to make sure you don’t get any grease inside the roller clutch? Why is this?
The grease I was referring to that was toast was the grease around the roller clutch. The band clutch needs grease to operate smoothly as it slips. The roller clutch on the inside never slips in a counter clockwise motion. It slips very easily due to to rollers in a clockwise motion. If grease is added it will tend to slip in a counter clockwise motion. Simply clean the shaft and internal for the roller clutch.
@@parktool : I wonder if it would work/last better with dry graphite or dry moly disulfide lube?? I imagine grease is what Shimano recommends…
I would also like shimano to make those clutch levers so they dont break after 2 years...
Hi,can somebody tell me what is the name of that tension tool ? Thank you
The TW-1.2 was used to set the clutch resistance. See www.parktool.com/en-us/product/beam-type-torque-wrench-0-14-nm-tw-1-2
I thought we were supposed to use the Nexus Internal Hub grease for this?
The reason to use Nexus Internal hub grease is for the temperature. Our HPG has a similar temperature range to Nexus hub grease.
@@parktool Thanks for clarifying! Love the videos, keep'em coming!
@@parktool I think you are wrong. I have read that reason to use Nexus Internal Hub grease is that that grease got little pieces which add friction. and those peases are importat also in clutch. There is marketing also Shimano grease for clutch, but maybe is same liquid.
We reached out to Shimano to verify before posting this video.
I've used dt Swiss ratchet grease too. Seems to work fine as another alternative
Would the adjustment be the same with a oval chainring ?
Yes, but you may get a bit more wear as it is moving a bit every pedal stroke.
@@parktool so probably better switching to round chainring ?
@@edritchie270 Up to you. There is very minimal movement in the cage due to oval rings so it will not be a huge improvement in wear.
Need high temperature grease
Only thing I'd like to mention is that you point out that there should be "white" grease on the silver post and that it is now grey because it's "toast". But then you don't put any new grease on the post when you mount it. So....how why was there white grease turned grey on the silver post and you didn't put any new grease on it?
I didn't understand that either. I ended up greasing the post. If you look in the clutch, it looks like there are roller bearings that contact the post. Not sure why you wouldn't grease a roller bearing ever?
Why not call it high temp grease
👍👏👏👏
How do you fix a clutch that slowly creeps itself to the off position everytime you hit bumps?
The clutch on/off switch bar can be tightened for better retention. There are multiple videos on YT on how to completely disassemble a Shimano Shadow+ rear derailleur clutch, replace the clutch lever if need be (worn out, broken...) and adjust its tension.
It also might be a case of too low the collar tension. This very video shows you how to adjust tension by acting on the bottom, cap-protected screw by fiddling with the distance between the collar's plates.
@@chikamichi thanks. I figured the flat metal part that's inside the clutch assembly that goes into the lobe spun itself against the plastic lever. So the lobe never engages and locks itself against the clutch ring.
I grabbed the clutch flat metal part and turned it while holding its plastic lever stationary.
It locks itself now everytime i turn it on and never disengages.
Too bad though, i still have lots of chain slaps and it never really stops the derailleur from extending during ride.
I guess the whole clutch assembly is defective because of old age/heavy usage.
Has anyone ever wondered why Parktool logo is not a circular cog?
Our logo did feature an actual cog up until 1998. Our current logo is a reimagining of the old logo, and so the cog shape was simplified and abstracted a bit.
Laughing in no clutch
I lost the tip of my pinky finger in a shimano clutch. I'll never download a derailleur again!
Totally missed one important detail
Give me a tool kit 😁
How cost?
Exactly what I need for today. Where’s Calvin?
I like that you work without gloves as I do.
Hello
After watching this video, I suspect that dozens of women riders will become very very interested in studying how to adjust their Shimano clutch, whether it needs it or not.
First comment
Set to 1.5x playback speed. You're welcome!
This is why SRAM is better. No servicing required.
Especially when SRAM’s gets worn, and your chain is all over the bike, you can do NOTHING at all………👎🏻
@@wonderwatch2239 You need to understand SRAM design in the first place.
How to service your Shimano clutch:
Step 1: remove all Shimano drivetrain and throw in garbage
Step 2: install SRAM GX drivetrain
Step 3: ride
That's the most ignorant thing I've read in years. SRAM mechs are junk. They flap from the outset and are made of soft plastic not fit for purpose. I can tell you from experience that I have regular warranty claims with SRAM products, little with Shimano.
@@adamf5942 at least Sram will warranty replace faulty parts. Shimano warranty is next to impossible.
@@SpMoose I've never had a warranty claim denied by either Shimano or SRAM and I've been working as a mechanic for years.
Seriously? Cleaning such stuff with a ... rag ?? Gezuskrist, oh those "mechanics"..
lol are u ok? what would you use to clean it, an ultrasonic cleaner? its a bicycle part not a space ship part
@@bmxscape it's a part (with grooves, etc) where you need to remove all the dust/... cause otherway - it will immediately make new grease to same bad condition. UC - best option (if we're ralking about normal mechanic shop), or at least wash all the parts in degreaser/cleaner..
@@ka81alex you don't think alcohol is a degreaser or cleaner? are u ok?
@@bmxscape alcohol ON A RAG is different from "part's washing IN A DEGREASER/alcohol".
Yup, I'm fine, thank you.
When you put a part like this in a parts washer or ultrasonic cleaner it removes all grease and particles. Even the grease and lubricant that is still good and useful. This clutch service is a commonly needed service. Completely disassembling the entire workings of the derailleur just to be able to use a degreaser is just not necessary. Alcohol or similar degreaser (that does not leave a residue) with a rag is perfectly acceptable.