Kizzie: *gives whole scholar-level essay on how umeshoryus work through reading your opponents actions and breaking them down* Punk: "nah, they just random"
@@bobibobbobino if people say daigo won matches just by being random, not only is it disrespectful to daigo, but the pro players he has competed against. i honestly believe daigo’s title of being a legend in the fgc is well deserved.
And on top of that daigo was clearly changing the alteration of the DP when he was punishing he was using HP when he was spamming to build bar he was using LP so he KNEW EXACTLY WHAT HE WAS DOING
Kizzy explaining where the shoryus came from was perfect right before punk saying they're random. Love punk, watched the video on his channel, but turned it off when he kept just saying they're random they're random. Nowhere really to go from there... But imo calling top level shit random is a negative for the entire genre. Kizzy shows you why with his explanation. Edit - it's also kinda wild to say daigo hasn't thought about his dps for this long but in sure punk was fucking around at this point. I'm a random fan of only about a year and I think about fighting games for a couple hours a day. Daigo is a lifelong pro... Goat, and a studied type of player. I can't imagine the thought he's given to the value of dps that feel random but make the opponent think you're in their head.
What is missing here is circa very early 2000s before even CvS2 was out, Diago had his legendary 'psychic dp' - what it was called back then in games like SFA3. It was the most famous move even back then. It has RISK but he was never blanket random with it. I use this all the time and respect the difficulty of it. it considers context of the match and read of the opponent and the whole aura behind it was the devastating nature of when he used it and generated fear with the knowledge of him having that in his arsenal. The older games rewarded reads better imo
Anyone remembers Daigo (Ryu) vs Infiltration (Nash) in S1? It was a FT5 match and Infiltration was winning 4-0. Then Daigo did 4 consequetive random tatsu. That was crazy as well
It's the mixing of intermediate tactic with expert tactic. If I had to guess that kinda craftiness comes only from the type of guy who cut his teeth in the arcade. What if say for example you were battling a master and then he switched places with a solid intermediate randomly mid round. It would throw most people off who feed off a competitive rhythm.
@@jusimplicit You guys do realize this has happened already right? helllo? Punk smoked Daigo. There is this wonderful thing, that you're actually already using, called UA-cam and it has said sets for you to watch :D
Nobody can match Daigo's reputation anyways because of his longevity and because of Evo moment 37's impact in the whole of FGC. Everyone in the fgc knows the Daigo parry but very few actually know that he didn't win 3rd Strike at Evo (KO did).
It can be random, or not, it's all a strategy to get into your head. His biggest ability is getting into your head so that you think twice or thrice about everything you do, before you know it, you're wide open and he can just walk up to you and dp.
Probably like instinctive randomness? With the opponents and experiences over the years, maybe he gets the "feel" that this particular move at this particular time is correct.
@@mkooij No my friend the umeshoryu or psychic shoryuken from Daigo has been around since Street Fighter 2. People were scared of this from this one player. go find videos of the the use of the umeshoryu+fireball trap in SF2... its classic well before 2008
@@drfunkenstein2k yes I agree. But so does kizzie. That's what I mean. It's just that Lizzie says that during this game it was gamerbees behaviour that solicited for the umeshoryus
I love that it started with Daigo vs Gamerbee. So many people saw that set and came away going, "damn Daigo is just a mindreader! Walk up DP is just good!" but they dont understand the mental game. Daigo was calling Gamerbee out on being the most always crouch teching dude of all time. I mained Adon and Gamerbee was my dude but I wish he knew how to block now and again, if he did Adon would be remembered as a tourney champion character.
It's not random. Punk said it, it's strategy and mind game. Punk is just a hater and said it's random. Sometimes you have to mixed things so your opponent can't predict what you going to do next. I'm pretty sure Gamerbee thought Daigo probably going to change after 2nd Shoryu but Daigo probably thinking if that's what Gamerbee thinks he's going to do, he'll do the opposite. It's all a mind game once you get to that level.
Listen to KK description of this. Daigo conditioned GB to behave the way he wanted him to which opened up many options. The cmk tech got GB to finally block / stop moving. Forced him to defend. That’s not random. It’s planned
Kizzie hit it on the head, I've gotten into this type of headspace where I recognize the other opponent isn't respecting any type of pressure and I'll start walloping out unsafe or risky buttons that still answers them when I have oki. Its like a form of disrespecting their disrespect lmao.
13:00 Hey, now that you mention it? Have they done something like that? There's a tourney in the Age of Empires scene called hidden cup, where they do exactly that, give random names to players, and half the fun of it is trying to guess who is who based on their playstyle. Something like that would be sick here.
I'm 100% with Kizzie on this one, Umeshoryus were created from Daigo's reads not the other way around, it doesn't mean he can just hit 4 DPs in a row whenever he feels like. There was a flaw to Punk's explanation there, Punk said it was a read situation, and EXACTLY, Daigo is known for being able to read like a madman and act accordingly, his ability to read people created these "Umeshoryu moments", not the other way around. I think both Punk and JWong got it backwards, thinking the video talks about being able to throw infinite DPs whenever Daigo feels like. The reality of it it just that he had good reads(like punk said) and they just led to these moments, then the community created a mythos behind this, Umeshoryus are real but they were good reads only and nothing else.
I really think he is, back then Diago plays the game 3 years ahead of everyone. Now it’s just everyone copying everyone while Diago is thinking of new and creative ways to win
The science! The DP chart. This is analysis of player behavior and habits. To some it’s random because it’s a level of understanding which some have yet to explore.
8:30 A long time ago, before fightcade 2. I played a set of 3rd strike with a dude, and I kid you not, 5 rounds in a row, he started by jumping, and every time I dp him, and after the set, he told me my dps were on point, and I was like "do I tell him or not?" :V
Not only street fighter, but Id say fighting games in general if he ever decided to branch to other fighting games he would dominate them too and he isnt the only onebut definitely one of the most well known and deservedly so.
There are random dp’s then there are calculated dp’s. In this gamer bee example, this is clearly calculated and planned. As KK pointed out, daigo had a strong read on GB play and risky movement, as a result he selected an aggressive option against an opponent that refused to defend himself. That’s not random. That’s skill! It’s based off of the opponents behavior.
Its random dp by daigo, but I think its experience and knowledge that helps daigo sort through when its worth doing it vs not doing it. its not completely random, but calculated guess. Truly random would mean he would miss a lot more then he does
Seeing Punk talk down on Daigo and him calling him random over and over again, kinda makes the comments I've seen comparing him to LTG make a little bit of sense.
i think its in between he didnt think about it to much but its something u feel like he punished him & then he felt confident to do it again then he kinda randomaly went with what was unexpected so he did it again its something u feel its something i feel also in alot of actions i do when i play FIFA, games that ur subconsciously going with the opposite of ur opponent or what is unexpected he was subconsciously reading & feeling how things where going so he went with how he felt he didnt conter all these times he saw that he could punish everytime lol its hard to explain its half random
"Sometimes you have to not play the game with the opponent, to show them to play the game." This perfectly describes me learning how to play guilty gear past 3 weeks. Don't show me that all you know how to is your one broken move or I'm following you around the whole floor countering you until you get kicked down to a lower level or learn to play the game with me.
Justin has an interesting theory with the name change thing. It is funny that in the chess world the current world champion Magnus Carlsen plays under a fake name online fairly often. His opponents are generally not doing any better when they don't know it is him :P.
Punk saying exactly what i was thinking. Diego reacting to a read with a DP doesn't deserve a nickname. JWong talking about Diego being put on a pedestal and people thinking he's this big brain super genius when he's using DPs on reaction and on reads is true af. JWong and Punk have both played him and bodied him so I'm gonna believe them.
read they say damn what a bunch of nub. they been play street fighter for how long??????????????????. dragon punch beat and go through everything. it an its an invisible mechanic at the start. the only time you can break through a dragon punch is when dragon punch turn counter clock wise. but when you trying to break through dragon punch at the start you wont break it. because its invisible. you can only hit dragon punch when its already counter clock wise. deigo didnt read nothing its all just random. one word its just luck. his luck havent run out. and now his luck ran out he start losing left and right. deigo shine didnt shine long its over for him
Kizzie: *gives whole scholar-level essay on how umeshoryus work through reading your opponents actions and breaking them down*
Punk: "nah, they just random"
He can't accept his legacy.
Ngl i'm with Kizzie on this one, no way Daigo made his way through everything he achieved being "random".
That is my opinion.
@@bobibobbobino if people say daigo won matches just by being random, not only is it disrespectful to daigo, but the pro players he has competed against. i honestly believe daigo’s title of being a legend in the fgc is well deserved.
Punk stay hating w that whiny ass voice
😂🤣🤣
You wake up DP
I Ume Shoryu
We are not the same
#Builtdifferent
I don't understand how Punk can say the DPs are random, immediately explain why they're not random, and still think they're random afterwards.
Drugs are bad...
And on top of that daigo was clearly changing the alteration of the DP when he was punishing he was using HP when he was spamming to build bar he was using LP so he KNEW EXACTLY WHAT HE WAS DOING
prolly joking
@@benjamincity3601 hitting hp over lp does not mean it isnt random lmao
Punks a hater 😂
The most legendary. His ability to understand and breakdown the game, frame data etc is just insane.
Kizzy explaining where the shoryus came from was perfect right before punk saying they're random. Love punk, watched the video on his channel, but turned it off when he kept just saying they're random they're random. Nowhere really to go from there... But imo calling top level shit random is a negative for the entire genre. Kizzy shows you why with his explanation.
Edit - it's also kinda wild to say daigo hasn't thought about his dps for this long but in sure punk was fucking around at this point. I'm a random fan of only about a year and I think about fighting games for a couple hours a day. Daigo is a lifelong pro... Goat, and a studied type of player. I can't imagine the thought he's given to the value of dps that feel random but make the opponent think you're in their head.
I think his breakdown on certain instances is when he really shares his thought process throughout the exchange
What is missing here is circa very early 2000s before even CvS2 was out, Diago had his legendary 'psychic dp' - what it was called back then in games like SFA3. It was the most famous move even back then. It has RISK but he was never blanket random with it. I use this all the time and respect the difficulty of it. it considers context of the match and read of the opponent and the whole aura behind it was the devastating nature of when he used it and generated fear with the knowledge of him having that in his arsenal. The older games rewarded reads better imo
Hoping Core-A make a video like "The art of DP" or something. That'd be fun to watch
Anyone remembers Daigo (Ryu) vs Infiltration (Nash) in S1?
It was a FT5 match and Infiltration was winning 4-0. Then Daigo did 4 consequetive random tatsu. That was crazy as well
need video ....
@@setiawansantoso Search for Daigo vs Nash FT5
3:50 they DEFINITELY messed up the chart because it shows mango winning in sf4 and SFxT and omito winning melee LMAO
they call that the mango
Man look at this. Makes me wanna play more Ryu again
It's the mixing of intermediate tactic with expert tactic. If I had to guess that kinda craftiness comes only from the type of guy who cut his teeth in the arcade.
What if say for example you were battling a master and then he switched places with a solid intermediate randomly mid round. It would throw most people off who feed off a competitive rhythm.
If Punk plays Daigo in a FT10, daigo will show him why its called the UMEshoryu
That would be a great match but I think Punk would take it easy
Nah he wouldn’t. He doesn’t have the mental game to handle a ft10 with daigo
@@jusimplicit Punk has the better H2H record and twice as many first place finishes in SFV
@@jusimplicit You guys do realize this has happened already right? helllo? Punk smoked Daigo. There is this wonderful thing, that you're actually already using, called UA-cam and it has said sets for you to watch :D
Every time Punk talks about Daigo all I can hear is someone salty that they'll never match Daigo's reputation, even when Punk is better at SFV.
SfV take no skills compared to the older sf games. He’s whatcha called a jealous loser lol
the reality is that as good as punk is he cant even hold a candle to daigo
Nobody can match Daigo's reputation anyways because of his longevity and because of Evo moment 37's impact in the whole of FGC. Everyone in the fgc knows the Daigo parry but very few actually know that he didn't win 3rd Strike at Evo (KO did).
@@revengenightmeres, agree. Daigo is the goat
You know you're godlike when one of the current best players can't fathom how good you are, so they just call you random
It can be random, or not, it's all a strategy to get into your head. His biggest ability is getting into your head so that you think twice or thrice about everything you do, before you know it, you're wide open and he can just walk up to you and dp.
Great content from different perspectives. Keep it coming
None of the dragon punches in the Gamerbee example were wake-up DPs.
Punk: It's just a random wake-up DP.
Probably like instinctive randomness? With the opponents and experiences over the years, maybe he gets the "feel" that this particular move at this particular time is correct.
Why punk gotta hate so hard 😂
Ego bruh. He cant accept someone saying he is the greatest.
It's simply a read. And a fun one too
Punk talking about the UmeShoryu was hilarious.
Daigo beat Infiltration, Xian and Tokido in FT10s immediately after they won EVO. He crushed them. What else do you want?
in response to @kizzie , gamerbee did not create umeshoryu, this phenomenon has been happing since Street Fighter 2.
Yes but kizzie means that gamervee created it in that game. In other words gamervee was playing in a way that made daigo use the shoryuken
@@mkooij No my friend the umeshoryu or psychic shoryuken from Daigo has been around since Street Fighter 2. People were scared of this from this one player. go find videos of the the use of the umeshoryu+fireball trap in SF2... its classic well before 2008
@@drfunkenstein2k yes I agree. But so does kizzie. That's what I mean.
It's just that Lizzie says that during this game it was gamerbees behaviour that solicited for the umeshoryus
I love that it started with Daigo vs Gamerbee. So many people saw that set and came away going, "damn Daigo is just a mindreader! Walk up DP is just good!" but they dont understand the mental game. Daigo was calling Gamerbee out on being the most always crouch teching dude of all time. I mained Adon and Gamerbee was my dude but I wish he knew how to block now and again, if he did Adon would be remembered as a tourney champion character.
It's not random. Punk said it, it's strategy and mind game. Punk is just a hater and said it's random. Sometimes you have to mixed things so your opponent can't predict what you going to do next. I'm pretty sure Gamerbee thought Daigo probably going to change after 2nd Shoryu but Daigo probably thinking if that's what Gamerbee thinks he's going to do, he'll do the opposite. It's all a mind game once you get to that level.
Punk needs to humble down and accept other good players skills. He’s getting to LTG’s hate level lol.
"Daigo is random" ... also "Daigo just got a read"
Lol LTP
Listen to KK description of this. Daigo conditioned GB to behave the way he wanted him to which opened up many options. The cmk tech got GB to finally block / stop moving. Forced him to defend. That’s not random. It’s planned
Kizzie hit it on the head, I've gotten into this type of headspace where I recognize the other opponent isn't respecting any type of pressure and I'll start walloping out unsafe or risky buttons that still answers them when I have oki. Its like a form of disrespecting their disrespect lmao.
Punk be confused seeing Daigo's inhuman shoryus. The Japanese be amazed seeing Punk's inhuman neutrals.
13:00
Hey, now that you mention it? Have they done something like that? There's a tourney in the Age of Empires scene called hidden cup, where they do exactly that, give random names to players, and half the fun of it is trying to guess who is who based on their playstyle.
Something like that would be sick here.
I'm 100% with Kizzie on this one, Umeshoryus were created from Daigo's reads not the other way around, it doesn't mean he can just hit 4 DPs in a row whenever he feels like.
There was a flaw to Punk's explanation there, Punk said it was a read situation, and EXACTLY, Daigo is known for being able to read like a madman and act accordingly, his ability to read people created these "Umeshoryu moments", not the other way around.
I think both Punk and JWong got it backwards, thinking the video talks about being able to throw infinite DPs whenever Daigo feels like. The reality of it it just that he had good reads(like punk said) and they just led to these moments, then the community created a mythos behind this, Umeshoryus are real but they were good reads only and nothing else.
some were reads but you can easily tell some are random too
I really think he is, back then Diago plays the game 3 years ahead of everyone. Now it’s just everyone copying everyone while Diago is thinking of new and creative ways to win
Jwong's takes outside of tier lists are very accurate.
The science! The DP chart. This is analysis of player behavior and habits. To some it’s random because it’s a level of understanding which some have yet to explore.
Couldn’t notice that in the dream hack clip that daigo pauses for a sec before each shoryu. That makes me think that it wasn’t random
Punk constantly contradicting himself 😂
Its the Power of Random combined with the Power of Daigo
Man what I would give to see Tokido vs Daigo on pre sfv4 fighting games...
Nah, he was using Umeshoryu way before that Gamerbee match. I first saw the Umeshoryu at the Street Fighter IV Gamestop 2009 World Championship.
8:30
A long time ago, before fightcade 2. I played a set of 3rd strike with a dude, and I kid you not, 5 rounds in a row, he started by jumping, and every time I dp him, and after the set, he told me my dps were on point, and I was like "do I tell him or not?" :V
Not only street fighter, but Id say fighting games in general if he ever decided to branch to other fighting games he would dominate them too and he isnt the only onebut definitely one of the most well known and deservedly so.
There are random dp’s then there are calculated dp’s. In this gamer bee example, this is clearly calculated and planned. As KK pointed out, daigo had a strong read on GB play and risky movement, as a result he selected an aggressive option against an opponent that refused to defend himself. That’s not random. That’s skill! It’s based off of the opponents behavior.
Its random dp by daigo, but I think its experience and knowledge that helps daigo sort through when its worth doing it vs not doing it. its not completely random, but calculated guess. Truly random would mean he would miss a lot more then he does
Justin n daigo are the best dedicated players 🙌 👏
That video predicted his CPT win.
Seeing Punk talk down on Daigo and him calling him random over and over again, kinda makes the comments I've seen comparing him to LTG make a little bit of sense.
I'm guessing they get compared because they're both black
Kizzie's got a good point. If they keep eating the Shoryuken it makes sense to keep feeding it to 'em.
Is there an umewalk foward ?
there is daigo doing 3 consecutive forward dash in his match with gamerbee
It's called "Ume-Sanpo" (Ume-Stroll) and it usually leads to a throw.
ua-cam.com/video/8XBsWi3kmFw/v-deo.html
Is there an ume super or ume ultra or ume jump or ume turtle or ume do nothing ?
Yeap, and he still does it with Guile lmao.
i think its in between he didnt think about it to much but its something u feel like he punished him & then he felt confident to do it again then he kinda randomaly went with what was unexpected so he did it again its something u feel its something i feel also in alot of actions i do when i play FIFA, games that ur subconsciously going with the opposite of ur opponent or what is unexpected he was subconsciously reading & feeling how things where going so he went with how he felt he didnt conter all these times he saw that he could punish everytime lol its hard to explain its half random
Lol I like how everyone is making daigo content
Daigo was asked for this and I think he said that they weren't random, but some of them were 🤣
"Sometimes you have to not play the game with the opponent, to show them to play the game." This perfectly describes me learning how to play guilty gear past 3 weeks. Don't show me that all you know how to is your one broken move or I'm following you around the whole floor countering you until you get kicked down to a lower level or learn to play the game with me.
Punk will never be a legend as long as he tries to drag the actual legends down. Humble yourself poindexter
His hateful ways got him compared to ltg
It is kinda disappointing really. It's as if after his defeat in Evo in the hands of Tokido, he kinda fell off...
It's not that the ume shoryu is just a random DP
It's a random DP THAT HITS.
Sir can you please tell us about the Umeparry?
That's , called ultra instinct
If we talk all SF game in general.
YES
@Rodem Kira ?? That basically mean he's the GOAT which is what I said.
Also the video is about Street Fighter tho.
When it's about Street Fighter....he is God
I think it is probably a little bit of both, i am sure he thinks about every dp he does, but sometimes you know hes gotta just let it rip
Daigo is just godlike
What is crouch teching and why does shoryu beat it
Its an option select in sfiv you either wake up jab or tech a grab. Dp is throw invul and hit invul
@Eli Gallardo educated guessing while using option selects isn’t mind reading
@Eli Gallardo cheers lad
@6:15 Tell that to Lilsicx66. His match vs Smug a few days ago on stream was horrible to watch in their FT10 match USF4
Punk just salty he got nothing named for him. DAIGO JUST BUILT DIFF
He’s the Best. How many players won SF Evo back to back?
Like it or not, Daigo is the Michael Jordan of Street fighter games
Justin has an interesting theory with the name change thing. It is funny that in the chess world the current world champion Magnus Carlsen plays under a fake name online fairly often. His opponents are generally not doing any better when they don't know it is him :P.
Ah, a fellow FGC and Chess fan.
i love your shirt! op!
How is it random if it KEEPS WORKING
But what about... The UME - FLASH !?!?
Ryan Joseph Hart is the greatest fighting game player of all time
His Sf4 run was OD
Hitting 3/4 of your dps is nothing near random. Random you would be missing a lot more then that
YES
Punk saying exactly what i was thinking. Diego reacting to a read with a DP doesn't deserve a nickname. JWong talking about Diego being put on a pedestal and people thinking he's this big brain super genius when he's using DPs on reaction and on reads is true af. JWong and Punk have both played him and bodied him so I'm gonna believe them.
UmeFlashkick
man lay low on that zoom editing man
Punk is on point.. Even Daigo mentioned it's random..
Go look at the match again. Every game daigo won it was won with DP.
God aint random brah, ask Justin.....
Yes he is
Anyone Remember Evo moment 37 Daigo Vs Justin Wong...Incredible Set
Yes.
Let’s go justin !!!
im with punk. theyre just reads and throwing out shoryus lol
He is
street fighter yes
you cant just make a vid about daigo and then start it with Justin LMAO
Punks is too young to watch Daigo at ST and 3rd strike. Calculated random
Idk. Prolly.
Yo
Punk sounds mad salty everytime I see him in a vid
Punk dat dude you should NEVER listen to if you want to actually achieve Something
cant put human logic to explain umeshoryu
edit : jwong you a capcom guy.. what s up with the harada shirt?
AMERICAN PLAYERS IS THE BEST IN THE WORLD !!!
Punk salty as always lol
Overall probably , but not in Street Fighter 5. I would say Tokido has been the best in Street Fighter 5
and placed 17th in the last CPT
read they say damn what a bunch of nub. they been play street fighter for how long??????????????????. dragon punch beat and go through everything. it an its an invisible mechanic at the start. the only time you can break through a dragon punch is when dragon punch turn counter clock wise. but when you trying to break through dragon punch at the start you wont break it. because its invisible. you can only hit dragon punch when its already counter clock wise. deigo didnt read nothing its all just random. one word its just luck. his luck havent run out. and now his luck ran out he start losing left and right. deigo shine didnt shine long its over for him
deigo is no god like or the beast. hes a nub
Punk is on point tho
only ting that's on point is the viga pik that cost his team to lose.
@@magnomliman8114 ?????
@@magnomliman8114 he got streamrolled by enigma on melty too.