Mirage F1s vs MiG-21s-- South African Border War, Angola 1982
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- Опубліковано 5 сер 2022
- Eleven months after their first clash, South African Mirage F1s and Angolan MiG-21s flown by Cuban pilots met again in the skies over Angola. Major Johan Rankin again led the Mirage flight. Was this time the outcome different? Or similar? Check out in this video.
Sources:
- Brigadier General Dick Lord - From Fledgling to Eagle: The South African Air Force during the Border War
amzn.to/3AjoQC7
- Peter Baxter - SAAF's BorderWar - The South African Air Force In Combat 1966-89
amzn.to/3KeO6OC
- Tom Cooper, Adrien Fontanellaz, José Augusto Matos - War of Intervention in Angola, Volume 3
amzn.to/3ApZQJI
- Aircrew Interview - Mirage F1 vs MiG-21 | Cobus Toerien
• Mirage F1 vs MiG-21 | ...
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#militaryaviationhistory #borderwars #dcsworldhistoricalreenactment - Ігри
Being Air traffic Controller, In the eighties I met an Angolan MIG-21 pilot who was taking a helicopter rating in Portugal. There were many, most without any prior flight experience. He told me that the MIGs were always instructed by their GCI to avoid combat with the South African Mirage F1s. Always. There was a radio code for that, and normally Spanish language was used since many MIG pilots were Cubans.
Sadly, several months after returning to Angola he was shot down and killed in his MI-8, in 1989. I was told by his former instructor. He was a very fine fellow, looking very much like Lionel Ritchie in the eighties. He spoke and wrote Russian fluently, having taken his L-29 and MIG-21 rating in the USSR and said the MIG-21 was very straightforward to fly. To this day I still have a paper in which he wrote my name and "MIG-21Bis" in Cyrillic...
Thank you for sharing this insight!
The South Africans employed Chilean interpreters to translate intercepted Cuban signals during the conflict. The Chileans saved a flight of F1s from a Cuban interception on one occasion and provided invaluable service overall. At this stage of the war, neither S. Africa nor Cuba wanted outright warfare. They were there supporting their respective allies, MPLA and Unita. S. Africa wanted to secure South West Africa (Namibia) by denying SWAPO and MK guerillas a foothold in Southern Angola, and the Cubans wanted to keep their MPLA comrades in power. By the mid to later 1980s things heated up when Castro tried a hard push against Unita over the Lomba River. It got ugly as MPLA forces were horribly decimated in Operations Moduler and Hooper, and they were forced to retreat to the fortified town Cuito Carnavale. A S. African siege of Cuito ultimately failed after several attempts, but the overall action was a serious setback MPLA/Cuban efforts. Ultimately, neither side won and a peace accord allowed the major players to withdraw from the conflict.
@@andrewmorke in the end, we had to wait for Jonas Savimbi to fell in an ambush and be hit by more than sixty bullets. peace came almost immediately afterwards...
BS story
@@ChiekoGamers How so? What makes you suspicious?
They fought Mig-23s too. South Africans also invented the helmet mounted sight.
True. Those fights will be reenacted once a high-fidelity MiG-23 is released.
With the assistance of the Israeli's who supported us . Got to give credit where it's due .
I was a chaplain on Air Force Base Ondangwa on the day that it happened and in the radar room when they led the Mirages to their target. Thanks for bringing good, but also very scary memories. We, who lived on the base were always nervous of direct attacks.
War is never a good thing. I had to CASAVAC too many young men maimed for life.
Thank you very much for sharing your personal experience relative to this historical event.
Remind me of my military service in SWA in the late 80's. I was in the 1st SSB, Ratal 90 crew member. We took on T34 and T56 with our 90mm french design cannon. The Angolans and Cubans came second best. It will be nice this see this part of the war showing.
Thanks for sharing your personal experience!
The SADF was far superior on the ground and in the air to the cuban backed Angolans. What operation were you on?
yep i was not on the border, was navy diver in SWA - Walvis Bay, good old days and well respected military
@@glenvanzyl8985 does not matter, you did you service.
He refers here to the Ratel (Badger) APC wofhich sported a 90mm gun.
I met the Cuban pilot who defected to South Africa . I think his name was Antonio .He told me of his high regard for the south African pilots after having engaged a Mirage and despite having been so badly shot up , the pilot whom he later met and became friends with , managed to limp the Mirage back to safety rather than crash it .Antonio was a soft spoken gentleman and its strange to think than had we encountered each other a number of years before , we would have tried our best to kill each other ...Made me wonder how many other decent Cubans died uneccessarily not to mention our own troops who never got past the age of 17 , 18 , 19 ,20 ...I was 17 when we were drafted ... Good memories though ..Hard times but sometimes I wish we could revisit just for the memory .
Thank you for sharing your personal experience. It is unusual but not rare how combatants meet years after wars in which they were trying to kill each other but all that is gone and they can have a civilized talk about everything.
Great content 👌🏼 As South African it's great to see some (local) relevant content too! 🇿🇦
Thanks! I'm glad that people from SA appreciate this.
Nice to see our history told too! Hey from South Africa 🇿🇦
Thanks for watching and commenting!
This guy should have more than 20k subscribers. He always does an excellent job.
Thanl you for this positive feedback!
Dassault made gorgeous looking planes.
French sure know how to create pretty things 😊
@@showtime112 French yes but Jewish first.
Very nice video as always! Very Interesting to learn about conflicts such as these, and how the use of air forces affect them.
Thanks, I appreciate your feedback!
Please don't give up on this music pieces at the beginning - they are awesome!
Like they hook man immediately and make him stay for the whole video. They are selected so well, perfect atmosphere.
Thanks for this! I will probably keep using intro music. Here, I couldn't find the right one easily and I was pressed for time a bit. I do get some angry comments from people who hate the music and I occasionally make a video without it as an experiment. Such videos are not more popular, their average view duration is not longer and similar percentage of viewers drops in the beginning.
I love your narration. Keeps me coming back. It’s very educational also.
Glad to hear it! Thank you and keep watching!
Excellent reconstruction as always! Looking forward to more.
Thanks, more on the way!
Rankin was my squadron leader . He eventually became the head of the South African Airforce.
He was very strict with the pilots, still remember him yelling at a Capt after an ACM training sortie.
Interesting additional detail, thanks!
Correction: Johann Rankin was never the Chief of the SAAF.
@@gerhardbenade5869 ok.
I thought I read it somewhere.
Anyway gone from SA since 1999 and I rarely get a chance to read news about the SA military.
Not Rankin.. Carlo Gagiano became CAF
@@JohnThreeSixteen918 He was a 3 Sqn pilot, MirageF1 CZ.....if I remember correctly.
Very cool video, your content never fails to keep me watching. Keep it up and hope you have a good day
Thanks! More stuff on the way.
Wonderful video for the second part between the MIRAGE F1 and the MIG 21 in South African Border war. Stay a lot of stories with the F1 in IRAN-IRAK war, Cenepa war, the clash between a greek mirage F1 and a turkish F 100-F. I have to wait it's like you want I'm not in a hurry. Congratulations AND KEEP GOING, don't give up, it will be a disaster about the airplane culture.
Thanks for this positive comment! I intend to keep with rhis for a long time. As for the topics you suggested, I can tell you that you can expect an Iran-iraq story soon. I'm also studying tge Cenepe War and some others.
@@showtime112 Excellent news, the future is smiling, take your time, I 'm waiting for seing some incredible military aircraft adventures in the past which I don't know. .
This war wasn't useless IF I CAN SAY LIKE THIS, it's because an independant state was recreated the Namibia in 1990, It's was a german colony before 1918. The English took his control in 1918, and in 1947 gave it to Souh Africa which became independant with apartheid regime.
I realy like your videos, i love your efforts to bring us a wonderfull work
Your support is appreciated!
Awesome stuff brother great video as always 🤩🔥😎
Good to hear you liked it!
@@showtime112 Awesome stuff bro just watched your F5E vs the MiG 25 video man that was awesome and unexpected how the Iranians managed to score a gun kill on the Iraqi MiG 25
@@venomsnakeYGBSM It's all about circumstances.
Thx bro,love the vid. Your awesome
Thank you, it's so nice to hear.
@@showtime112 your my favorite DCS YT channel
Since the Mirage F1 got added, would it be possible to take a look at some engagements during the Cenepa War between Ecuador and Perú?
Keep up the amazing content Showtime!!
It is possible. We have AI Su-17 which is very similar to Su-22 flown by Peru. I'm doing some research about it.
@@showtime112 thank you very much! Would love to see those
@@showtime112 from all my understandings the su-22 is the export name for su-17, regardless of variants/ upgrades the looks should be identical or extremely similar besides weapon capabilities
@@ml-fishing1341 Yes, I rhink it just has some systems degraded or removed. There is actually a developer which started working on DCS module but that will probably take a few years.
Awesome videos 👌 Cheers from North Carolina
Thanks, I appreciate this feedback!
Thank you very much again @Showtime112 😁 Keep up the good work. I'll send regards to my uncle and show him this video if I can see him this year.
Thanks. He'll probably say that it looked quite different but that's unavoidable 😁
@@showtime112 I guess he will 😆 but nah, he will be proud that someone tells his story. By the way, he was around 21-23 years at the time... very novice pilots but also very brave ones. Cheers.
@@showtime112 hey... I have some news :D I managed to travel to Holguín where my uncle lives and shown him the video. He was amazed by the quality and quite surprisingly, he agrees with most of what has been shown 😆He was very happy someone told his story, and I have to say that personally it helps him a lot. He also told me two or three curious details about that day... First of all, he graduated of the 1979 class in Moscow and despite that being in 1982 he had never seen actual combat training; neither did Gilberto Ortiz who was less experienced than him. He told me he was transferred to Angola in 1981, more precisely to the Huambo airbase where he spent over a year. I asked him if they were supersonic by the time they found the Mirages and he told me that they were almost supersonic but not quite. He also says that some officers in the DAAFAR never believed that missiles were shot but he confirms seeing a flashy light from his cockpit. By the way, he was the one that gave the order of retreat to Ortiz, and he told me that he was almost unable to speak as he was pushing about 7Gs. And he landed with the landing gear but he said he did not deployed parachutes because by the time he landed he almost didn't had a plane at all 😆. He still claims that wrong orders were given from GCI... he is actually quite pissed about that because that doesn't shown on any record or any official version by the DAAFAR and at the time he was not authorized to speak about it... It's been a while though and I always enjoy a bit of classified information coming to my ears 😂 By the way, they (the MiGs) were operating at the range limit of the ground radars, which contributed to the lack of situational awareness by them at the time. Thank you very much again for this amazing video, cheers.
@@javiermarrero3525 I'm so glad to hear this. Usually, these reenactments should look different to an actual participant but I guess sources were rather accurate. I could have used you as an advisor before the video for extra details but even as a comment, It will still provide more for anyone who is interested. Thanks again!
Great vid!
Thank you for your comment!
Bonjour de France. Beau travail, bravo et merci.
Hello! Thank you for watching and commenting!
It's really interesting the fact that even though the Cubans made visual contact and saw the SAAF aircrafts, they kept flying almost straight without turning, letting Mirages take their six. The fact becomes more inetersting when taking into account that a year before an another clash had happened between the same type of aircrafts from each side resulting in the loss of one Cuban/Angolan aircraft. The loadout for the Cuban side is confirmed? R-3S was largely outdated in early 80s. R-13M was quite superior and available for export years before. Also there are some sources which report that early R.550s had problems with proximity fuze when target aircraft was using its afterburner. Maybe that was the reason why the 2nd missile fired by Rankin exploded probably some meters from the aircraft but didn't cause serious damage.
As for the missiles, Tom Cooper specifies that Cubans carried R3S. Many air forces can't just update their stock very quickly. I recently came across information that Italian F-104s carried AIM-9Bs through most of the 80s. In this case. Early Magic missiles proved not to be very effective too. Cubans were turning lightly so they don't loose speed but after a while, they turned harder which is why the Mirages cought them. Toerien speculates that they still might have been trying to intercept the Canberra.
@@showtime112 to add to that, the Cubans were being supplied by the Soviet Union and they kept most of their top missiles for themselves and gave Cubans "hand-me-downs" or second-hand stock. so it's very unlikely the Cubas would have the latest missiles, especially on the mig21. MI23 would have had better weapons and was a far better plane then the mig21
@@Ghoulza Cuba was actually pretty high up the export quality tree as far as the USSR was concerned - they got equivalent equipment to Warsaw Pact allies, for the most part, without the usual additional level of avionics downgrades that other, less 'reliable' export customers got. It's probable they were just trying to use up the missiles they already had (these things very much have shelf lifes, as well as limits on takeoff/landing cycles) or they weren't able to get their newer missiles to the front yet - or were saving them for homeland air defence.
My Daze this is the needle in the hay I was looking for even going in to such small conflicts it is simply wonderful
Good to see you got “Le Spectre’s” skin colour right. If I recall correctly it had just been painted in the low viz colour without permission from command. After this incident permission was given to paint the rest of the F1CZ’s.
You are the first to notice in the comments 😁 The skin is not 100% accurate (more of an improvisation), but I wanted to point out that Rankin was flying the first grey skinned F1 in SAAF.
@@showtime112 An interesting side note is the Mirage from the first kill, tail number 213, is in the SAAF Museum with a Mig kill mark on it and the name of the last pilot assigned to it - Cobus Toerien - on the cockpit.
Wonderful video Showtime112, Which aircraft do you think is more better suited to dogfighting, the mig 21 or the mirage f1 ?
Thanks! I'd say Mirage. I haven't yet tested it in a PvP combatbut I will.
@@showtime112 mirage as well. mig 21 is fast but not as maneuverable as the mirage, so once you get into the merge the mirage has the advantage but as with all of these hypotheticals, it relies on the pilot as much as the plane. a good plane in a unskilled pilots can fall to a bad plane in a skilled pilot's hands
Great vid on the border war. Any other border war vids besides the F1 vs mig21?
There's one about South African Impalas shooting down Angolan helicopters. Maybe some others in the future but currently, there's not enough right assets in flight simulations.
INTERESTING. THANKS
Glad you liked it!
The South African wingmans name (Cobus Torien) would be pronounced: Cour (like 'tour') bis To - reen. And you'd have to roll the 'r' of Torien, rrrrr! It's a bit tricky to write it phonetically.
Thanks for the tip. I watched him on Aircrew Interview. The host pronounced his name like me and Cobus had no complaints 😁 I remember hearing Charlize Theron explaining how her name should be pronounced. I wouldn't have guessed it in a million years 🤣
@@showtime112 Nope... unfortunately you mangled the other South African's name too, in the previous video. Please, get a South African (Afrikaans-sprekend) to help you. It is really disappointing as it sounds nothing like their names, and it would be easy for you to get advice on this over a quick audio call from a South African.
@@showtime112 Let me teach you a bit Afrikaans...
Just say "Buy a donkey"
In Afrikaans sounds like "Baie Dankie" (Thank you very much)
Make a video about the air combats in the Cenepa war (Ecuadorian MF1s vs Peruvian SU 22 and A-37)
I'm working on it.
Can you do a video like this about the football war between Guatamala and Nicaragua? There was an F4 Corsair that shot down multiple p51 mustangs.
I've already done a two part video covering the topic. Most people somehow missed it 😁
Thank you for doing south africa 😢❤❤❤❤
Thank you for watching!
wonderful
Good to hear!
Excellent SAAF pilots, fighting more modern aircraft and missiles and still coming out best!
Awesome presentation Boet - Eenhana 77-79
Ya , I was a Bokop.
Very cool 😎
Thanks!
Loves these unknown aerial conflicts which are forgotten to history. Thank you for the presentation, and lesson. 🎩🎯🎱♠️🏁🇺🇲🇺🇦🔱🌻💮🌼🌸🍀🔫
I like those smaller conflicts too. Plenty more left to cover 😁
@@showtime112 agreed
The terror of the Mirage was not the Mig 21, it was the Mig 23
The things changed later, yes. Once MiG-23 is released in DCS, those topics will be covered too.
This may be of interest to you, since you are covering Cuban pilots: on May 12, 1980 the Washington Post reported that Cuban aircraft sank a Bahamas' patrol boat, killing 4. I would provide you with the link, but YT appears to have prohibited that...
Thanks. You can send it to email, showtime112b@gmail.com
Very good video, Remember me of old history Channel documentaries
Thanks. Dogfights was the biggest inspiration for these videos.
@@showtime112 you know, i had similar ideas for warthunder and created a video, but i lacked the willpower to continue and published that One, keep It up. I didn't Remember the name of the series in english, but i loved It when i was a kid
@@alessandromazzini7026 Well, it does take effort and you can't just make five or six of them each week, that's true.
Cool thing, this video is! 👍🏻 Watch older videos I must, but time - short is. 😁😉
Maybe I should rename to Shorttime112?
Cheers, buddy! 🙋🏼♂️🍻🍻
Thank you Master! Good to hear from you again it is 😁
Say, your Spanish pronunciation is really good. Are you Hispanic by any chance Showtime112?
Thank you very much. I'm not Hispanic but I have a certain knowledge of two other romance languages (Italian and Portuguese) so that helps. Spanish pronunciation seems quite regular without many exceptions.
can you do a video about the Dofar war its very interesting
Not sure, I need to do some research to see which aircraft types were used.
@@showtime112 Thank you for your hard work
your channel is amazing
and i hope that you find the info that you need
Thank you, well presented. "Toerien" is pronounced "Two reen".
Thank you for commenting and for providing info. In my defense, there is an interview with Toerien on YT and the interviewer is pronouncing his name the way I did. Toerien never complained :)
Can you do a video on the Turkish invasion of Cyprus, operation attila. It was mainly f104 and f100
I did one video about Turks sinking their own destroyer during that operation. I don't have much detail about the rest of the conflict except that they bombed some targets and especially the airport.
And can’t wait for people to mod in variants of the Mirage so you can do even more stories
This particular Mirage will be available in a couple more variants (Spanish E and a two seater). But one thing I'm really waiting for is Mirage III. Razbam is working on it as we can find on their discord but it will probably take a while.
@@showtime112 The VSN mod is also in dev but yea cant wait
South African pilot said their opposition piolts were very much inferior
They were, especially in the early stages of the conflict.
You can make a video of Irak`s F-1 long range raids in Siri and Larak oil terminals in 1986, the Mirage cover all tasks, air-refuelling, ECM and the attack.
Tom Cooper say the pilots were all foreigners"Contractors" and the leader was a belgian
I'm gonna do some Iraqi F1 strikes in the future. This CE version can't air refuel and doesn't carry any pods. We will have E version in the future which is more complex. I've read Cooper's Iraqi Mirages, I can't remember that he mentioned non Iraqi pilots flying the Mirages. Was it from something else?
@@showtime112 "Iran-Iraq War in the air" Cooper-Bishop, page 222, him say pilots were mercenaries, "including two belgians, two pakistanies, six germans, one australian, one new zelander AND one south african"
Cooper say in the book about iranian F-14 than soviets advisors flew MiG-27/ KH-29 and MiG-25BM/KH-58 plane-missile team, they cause heavy losses and lost planes in the war.
@@alejandrocasalegno1657 Haven't read that one, thanks!
@@showtime112 irakien F1 fitted With refuelling probe weré version EQ4 ,5 and 6..
All irakien pilots weré trained at Orange AB. The Lasts in summer 1984 When arrive. Bécause We have F1B( twin seat) from EC3/5 Comtat Venaissin. It Was thé only OCU for convert pilots on F1C
@@showtime112 irakien F1 fitted With refuelling probe weré version EQ4 ,5 and 6..
All irakien pilots weré trained at Orange AB. The Lasts in summer 1984 When arrive. Bécause We have F1B( twin seat) from EC3/5 Comtat Venaissin. It Was thé only OTU for convert pilots on F1C
Not to be picky, but ... one of the SAAF birds has a Springbok roundel (apartheid era), and the other has a bird roundel (post-1994 era). In 1982, they would both have worn the Springbok roundel.
It's pretty clear the Cubans didn't learn from last fight. How could they send two inexperienced pilots again after it was clear that it wasn't a good idea the first time?
Hard to say. Not a historical first though 😁
Maybe the escort for Canberra was not in time and therefore Cuban side thought that only one or two bombers are out there.
they didn't learn because they didn't have the same type of training SA did. Cubans train to fly dog fighting is not part of the training. they also didn't really expect SA to keep matching them in the skies, SA had very few fighters and no spare parts. Cubans believed SA would keep their planes grounded as soon as migs appeared they never expected them to keep coming up to fight. later on in the war SA didn't try go fr the fight, they tried to keep their planes for bombing missions and ground support rather than try take Cuba on in the air. this was because Angolan air defense was the highest in the world, they had far more planes and SA was running out of parts they were taking part from damaged or old planes to fix what they had, they just could risk loosing planes in dog fights anymore, besides artillery was taking out more Cuba planes than fighters so why risk it
@@Ghoulza Mostly correct but the Cubans didn't have the best air defense in the world. They had some good stuff, but not a lot of it like Iraq did.
@@dougerrohmer Angela had best air defence in the world at that time. Russia was in Angola helping them and used their latest anit air defences. SA captured one in tact and handed it to the CIA after we had studied it ofcourse. let me amend this, cause i see my mistake. it was the heaviest defended air space in the world with the latest Soveit union anti air defences. they might not have been the best in the world, poor wording choice on my part sorry
Once you said Mayra magic 550 I knew it was all over 🤣👏
I said Mayra?
6:26 A Turkey shoot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!i've seen on a book called AIR FAN the original black and white pictures taken from HUD videos of theses 2 kills!!!!!!!!
Mirage 750 kt placard limit v Mig21 600 kt low level.
Nothing like a good old fashion gun kill and from Mirage F1
Well, with their missiles being what they were, it was either that or ramming them 😁
"Upgraded" to Mig-23's....
👍
Hvala Medo! Vidim da rješavaš propuštena videa 😁
@@showtime112 😁dobar materijal nikad ne zastarijeva
Flogger was dominant in this conflict
We will deal with that part of the conflict once we get a high fidelity MiG-23 in DCS.
😊
Thanks for the comment!
Lijep je taj skin za 21
Nekoliko zemalja je koristilo tu istu ili sličnu shemu koliko mi se čini.
@@showtime112 da, al fino izgleda ova trobojnica na repu
Koliko ti ukupno vremena treba da emituje jedan video
Ovisi o tome koliko je komplicirano istraživanje i u kojoj mjeri AI i DCS-ov replay track surađuje. Obično od tri do pet dana.
Hello mate. Will watch on full HD Tv screen this vidéo. Now holidays and dont want seen in small cellular.
After this fight, are you aware latér there is à clash between F1 and Mig 23?
Mirage pilot makes mistake When he opens fire: first With missile Who failed to lock on mig exhaust and during switch Missile to Gun , mig 23 went full power afterburner. So When F1 pilot fires à burst of 30mm Gun thé mig 23 Was located at max range of bullets.
So Guns and after missile. But too easy to Write than...act in full stress of fight
Hope you Will found this story and....make vidéo 👍🙋
Hello, thank you for commenting! I intend to cover the clashes between F1s and MiG-23s but not just yet. We only have an AI MiG-23 in DCS but a high fidelity module is being developed. When it becomes available, it will be a much better video.
82ND AIRBORNE
The Mirage reminds me of thee F-105...a sexy pig for sure.
Like a younger, cuter sister perhaps 😁
I heard the Cuban pilots were not interesting in the fight for Angola, many times they just leave when confronted with combat, it hard to motivate men in a totalitarian government like the Communist Cuban Government force conscripts men sending halfway round the world.
Some say that Angola was the Cuban Vietnam...
@@showtime112 true, I here an Cuban Airforce General who defected in the late 1980s complaining about Angola Civil War the Cuban Armed Force there suffered heavily there 10 thousand or more death, 54 thousand miltary desertion and many more unwilling to fight.
I heard that most of the Cuban infantry where very dark , specifically selected from the very poor, Castro wanted to get rid of them, it would be nice to hear from Cubans if this was true.
@@johnsmith-ht3sy yes, Fidel and Raul Castro drafted the majority Black Cubans for his Angola wars even thou there just 9% of the Cuban populations, worse still the HIV/AIDS scare of that time lead the Cuban Communist Government to isolated returning soldiers for the population of Cuba, discrimination is still on the island, Fidel and his brothers are pretend their not racist their actions show there hypocrisy.
@@johnsmith-ht3sy Afro Cubans, I attend school told me, this fact.
It was in this war where MiGs showed to be superior
MiG-23s, a few years later.
@@showtime112 Not so much, but the all aspect missile was. Cobus Toerien says that due to tactics and training, they had no problem taking on the Mig 23, but the missiles did cause problems.
@@dougerrohmer In any case, when MiG-23 gets released (hopefully soon but Razbam can take their time), there will be a video or two about it.
@@showtime112 I'll look out for it! Good work!
to score gun kill on a mig21 is pretty impressive. typical tactics for Soviet mig21 were shoot and scoot, use their speed to close fire and then get away and out of engagements as fast as possible not wanting to try dog fight
I can tell you that (at least on this version of the Mirage), it's quite difficult.
@@showtime112 i was a kid when this happened, they didn't show much about the border war on the news, but they did show this, the first time I ever saw a gun cam kill, they showed it on the morning news. the first gun kill from a mirage was also shown on the news. it made me want to become a fighter pilot, unfortunately I sucked at math so never followed through
It is not "Two'rarian"...a very Armenian name. It's TOERIEN (pronounced Tooo' rin)!!! We are descended from Dutch people who arrived in 1652....
Thanks for pointing that out. In my defense 1) nobody knows how to pronounce Dutch names except for the Dutch 2) Mike from Aircrew Interview pronounced it just like me and Cobus himself never corrected him 😂
@@showtime112 It is not Dutch. It is Afrikaans. The pronunciation is *very* different. And Brian is correct in his criticism. Please, accept a helping hand in this.
@@MediaFilter I recruited a guy on the discord for the future
More like Tooreen, with the ee slightly shorter in duration.
🙉
🙋♂️
Go SAAF.
@Showtime112 Please get an Afrikaans speaker to help you pronounce the South African pilots' names correctly. No unkindness intended, I love your work, but you are mangling their names.
So I've been told 😁
It's ok broer.
Groete uit Kanada.
Capt Rankin was my squadron leader at Louis Trihart airforce base.
@@useryggfdcc I hope I at least pronounced his name close enough. Please don't tell me it's pronounced something like 'Roonkine' 🤣🤣🤣
@@showtime112 🤣🤣 Bud!!... no worries, you did ok with the names, more importantly you did OUTSTANDING with the video!! I was a ground pounder in that conflict and was at the Ondangwa airbase getting re-sup for ground patrol at that exact time. I was in the ops bunker de-briefing when the jets came back. We heard the whole story from the radio chatter. SUPER AMAZING to see the detail!!! What an awesome effort! I believe that all 4 pilots, even the 2 Mig drivers survived the encounter!!! Whatever you read in the comments, this is airmanship of a high order and very, very few pilots even today can lay claim to a dogfight in a modern jet.. and surviving a dogfight no less!!!! Superb!!! The Ukrainian/Russian conflict is riveting and we will see lots of air duels there I believe. Great work Showtime112!
@@johndees967 Thank you for this amazing feedback! I sometimes get comments from people who were somehow involved with the events described in videos and that is always special. All Cuban pilots survived the encounter with the Mirages, including the ones from the first clash in 1981.
As for Ukraine, once some serious research is done, there will be very interesting topics to cover.
I was there (served in SAAF) and this is factually incorrect.
Care to be specific?
MiG−23が、ミラージュＦ−１を撃墜した! MiG−21の仇
That belly landing... Ugh.
Some sources suggest that one of the MiGs had to do a gear up landing so I thought it would be cool to do it that way 😁
You're a far better pilot than me. Whenever I've tried landing without functional gear in a 21 it always ends in a bonfire.
@@donaldedwards3195 Maybe it's the fuel state. I set it to be almost empty here.
@@donaldedwards3195 Descent rate could be too high, or you're just hitting a nasty bump in the terrain. Generally the 21 is pretty well-behaved when it needs to be bellied in DCS. I usually drop the airbrakes at the last moment as an additional barrier between me and the ground - the real life procedure is airbrakes and manual nosewheel release, but if you drop the nosewheel in DCS it will almost always cause you to flip over and die. Ideally you want to be a bit fast and then just lose the speed in the last few seconds before touching down, minimise vertical speed even if it means touching down fast. Friction can solve the horizontal speed problem, nothing is going to solve the vertical speed one.
Fishbed on its fishbelly.
Lol Imagine using the F1 as escort, can barely fly itself (warthunder reference)
It wasn't a bad fighter but like MiG-23, it appeared just when fourth generation was being developed. They were both outdated when they entered service. Phantom came a decade earlier so it had a much longer period when it was the coolest thing around.
@@showtime112 not a bad fighter at all, but as for warthunder Is literally the worst you can get at top tier, not even top tier, because of the meta... Meta Is All-aspect and flares or turnfighter/rate fight and flares
For me it just highlights that both Apartheid SA and the Cubans were purely focused about rampant greed/corruption leading to a pathetic outcome for Africa.
Some say it was a proxy war fought on behalf of the USA / CIA etc.
As a South African, I don't think there was any greed in the Cuban's motivation - maybe just a desire to impress the orcs. As for the South Africans, we had a mandate dating back to WW1 to protect the then South West Africa (Namibia) and there were enough reasons to believe that SWA needed protection. Don't let anybody tell you that SWAPO were the nice guys. So from the South African point of view, the motive firstly was pride, and secondly trying to stop the southward rollout of communism. No rights or wrongs implied, just explaining motives.
@@dougerrohmer As a South African, I 100% support the Russians in the Ukraine.
Killing Azov battalion Nazi scum.
The Cubans were heroic.
Billige PC Filme
Well, you can always donate and we will make them more expensive.
Cuban act like comercial pilots 😂😂😂 south African do not know How uses the missiles 😂🤣
I think they knew hos to use them but the missiles were generally unreliable.
Gerald Bull, the late Canadian artillery expert was 'commissioned' by the CIA to design an ordnance
piece for the Apartheid forces fighting various African, Cuban and East German forces. Bull was later betrayed by the CIA and jailed in the USA for 'breaching US sanctions against South Afirca' (sic)!
After his release from prison, Bull became trully freelance and was seen as the brains behing Saddam's 'Super Gun'. In March 1990, a few months before the Iraqi foray into Kuwait, Bull was murdered by the Mossad. Ironically, Bull had also previously designed a weapon for the zionists!