Great pointers which you discussed and compared between the digital and physical copies, and I think they are all very logical points. And really, the key elements between a physical board game and a digital version really is the feeling of friendship when played together in a house (add in some wine and snacks too), and I guess digital can never replicate that special bonding feeling. Given the covid situation, digital copy makes sense, beyond that, I’d definitely grab a physical copy too to really enjoy it with my friends!
After much anguish deciding whether to buy in on the cardboard versions of Gloomhaven or Frosthaven, knowing full well I'd almost certainly never complete them, the full digital release of Gloomhaven has made me SO glad I didn't throw 100 bucks at either of them to find out - it's brilliant, and my friends and I now have a copy each for the same net price.
Though I understand the point you're making, the category "storage" doesn't quite seem fair. A digital version of a game will always beat a physical copy for storage. Might as well grade the two on how well they work when the power is out.
By the same token, the hands-on quality will always go to the board game. But we can't ignore the relative advantages of each medium, so long as we consider it both ways.
@@LegendaryTactics most of the categories are bunk. It reeks of a foregone conclusion rather than a reasonable attempt at being impartial. It is inevitable for that to happen but ignoring it isn't helping anybody.
@@thomgizziz Which categories would you have added or taken away to make a more balanced comparison? My goal was to highlight the best parts of both games and see which had more "best parts".
@@LegendaryTactics Although one of the biggest complaints against the board game is how much work/time it takes to set it all up, take it down, advance to the next scenario, etc.
This really boils down to how much you value interaction with the real world vs interaction with the digital world. If you want something to take you away from computers and have someone to play with, cardborad all the way else just go digital.
That's true to a large extent. Some games are just better on digital because the computer handles the "bookkeeping" - like "Through the Ages" is much more fun on digital imho
As someone who has played the table top up to retiring one character and played through the first quest on the electronic campaign (Had it for over a year but only redownloaded a couple of days ago and was glad to see the campaign unlocked and all the improvements. I agreee with your rating. As a solo player, the PC version is quite if not exactly like the tabletop. And it is really fun to play it when you can't really make mistakes because the PC version will just not let you do illegal moves. I also like that you can't see what's in the next room, whereas even if we try not to look, its difficult to prepare the dungeon without kinda knowing what's ahead. I would like to see a PC version of Mage Knight now. I think it could be cool and make it easier to play :)
great video dude. kudos for inviting people to criticize you and then being respectful to those who aren't engaging respectfully. you seem like a cool dude.
@@LegendaryTactics People have very strong opinions, rightfully so. But some are very unnecessary attitudes and more of an attack. Like I said, you handle it very well. Way better than I would lol. Anyway, I'm buying Gloomhaven digital mostly because of your video. I was on the fence, but your video sold me.
Great comparison video. Great to see your ideas coming forward in a relatively objective manner. I think the comparison between physical and digital is redundant. They hold entirely different experiences, potential, and expectations. Even if the games are as identical as they can be, they are vastly different. A great example of this is; a physical copy has a tactile aspect. Being able to hold miniatures and cards and tiles feels satisfying. On the flip side, opening the box and seeing this mountain of plastic and card can be intimidating. It really comes to this for me. If you enjoy the physicality of a game. If you enjoy the 'in-person' co-op experience. If you enjoy the idea of maybe some small mistakes and a learning curve, then the physical copy is for you. if you enjoy the convenience of just firing it up. The removal of physical storage needs and the removal of rules checking then the digital version is for you.
So i just got started with the cardboard. Loved it. Then discovered digital. I do love the digital also. Just playing guildmaster, just decompress after work. But i still prefere cardboard. There is something about touching physical things, the cards, the mini’s. And the cardboard activates my fantasy more. And ofcourse I enjoy playing in real life with friends, have some nice food and drinks.
I think you also have to consider price in your metrics. The digital game is about a quarter of the price of the cardboard version. And the cardboard version is not cheap.
I can't believe I didn't include that. You're absolutely right. Though, you do get a lot more tangible and concrete goodies in the box as opposed to the much cheaper pixels.
I played through the entire campaign with the physical game and just got the digital version. My biggest problem with the digital is that I found it harder to play. I liked having all the cards in my hand to see what they did. Much easier than clicking on each one, one at a time. I also could see right in front of me what the enemy was doing during the turn so I didn't have to click back to find out what each was doing. I also couldn't always easily tell which enemies were regular and which elite. So I'm not sure I'll continue with the digital. I played solo and have lots of room so I could leave it up for as long as it took. But I do agree with all of your points.
Although I agree digital wins it overall, I disagreed with almost every point. First point I would say is not realistic with a point for digital. I've seen tons of streamers and players who haven't played the physical version be completely overwhelmed, and much of the difficulty of this game is if you know the monster AI which digital doesn't teach. And second point you didn't take into consideration what almost every group does with the physical version, homebrew rules. Yes there is modding in digital but it's a much higher barrier. And sometimes you forget to use the stamina potion that you planned to use, or whatever. And in digital multiplayer you can't restart the round, one misclick and you have to live with the consequences.
These are the best arguments I've heard for the physical version. Thank you for sharing them here. I appreciate that you counter my arguments with logic. Some Gloomhaven purists would be aghast with some homebrew rules, depending on which ones you use, but every group is different, and can maximize the fun factor by using rule tweaks that suit their style. I guess ultimately, the best test is which version gets played more.
In digital there's a restart round option if you press escape, it resets to the very start of the round before cards are chosen, I noticed that all rng stays the same in the case of reset (like notably dmg modifiers)
@@BurnSchulz you mean the reset button? makes kinda sense since they implemented it as "reset entire round including card selection", would be pretty infuriating to have one guy constantly resetting the actions of all other 3 players, though I don't see why not to keep it in as an option
the whole argument alongside digital vs physical board game really interest me. why should play board game when their is digital? especially when the game is so fiddly to set-up or keep up? i ask this question to myself when i played through the ages, since that game feels like it works better as digital rather than board game. and just as i expected, my copy of through the ages rest peacefully in my bookshelf while i playing digital version regularly. after that when i buy new board game, i start to ask the question ”is this game still worth even when its own digital version of the game comes out?“. sadly it seems gloomhaven is that kind of game. a board game that not worth as board game, but as digital game.
I had the exact same experience with through the ages. I still think Gloomhaven has a place alongside digital for some people though. It really is a completely different experience.
My friends just bought me the board game because we played some descent in a friends house and loved it. Didn't played gloomhaven yet, but I think the perfect balance is a game like descent, where you have the best of both worlds simultaneously
The rule enforcement is a double-edged sword. In the digital game I often clicked the wrong button and this spoiled my move or even the mission. Instead of confirm target I hit skip attack. Wouldn't happen in the cardboard version.
Haven't played many hours of both, I lean more towards digital, and largely for the reasons you outlined. I did want to say that because Gloomhaven has stickers, the digital version is much easier to replay. Additionally, it's easier to run multiple games (say one solo and one with friends) if that interests someone.
There's also the Tabletop Simulator versions. The best seems to be TTS Enhanced. And that way you buy something that costs 40 bucks, and you can play any number of virtual board games. It also retains much more of the tactile feeling of the physical version and maintains an interesting balance between you having to manually play the game and scripts that aid with set up and some in-scenario stuff.
Its not a fair comparisum. A digital version will win for sure. To me, its all about preference... the same as reading a printed magazine or a digital magazine.
That's a good analogy! This video was to weigh the pros and cons of both, which someone purchasing the game should take into consideration. For example, analog version of Gloomhaven takes a lot of time to set up, which is not the case with many analog games, and in a comparison between those games and their digital versions, it may not be much of a consideration.
its accessibility as well as preference. I cannot always get a group together at my house to play the game (considering they live all across the US and Europe). We can however play it very easily online together without doing a live feed on the board game with each their own camera for their cards and that.
The digital game isn’t cheaper if you only have a tablet/phone as your digital gaming platform, as the last time that I checked, it cannot be played on a tablet/phone. Having to purchase a computer + steam game makes the digital game cost hundreds of dollars more than the table top version.
When your cupboard is as full as mine, it's something that goes through my head every time I buy a physical copy of a game because it means I need to send another game or two packing.
One point as well on the physical, I assume most groups like mine at least early on are going to have one player who knows the rules better than everyone else. And it sucks having to be the one that sucks the joy out of the room after a big play by going “well, um, actually, the rules say you can’t do that.”
Does the digital ruin the experience for the cardboard. I got the digital, but don’t want to ruin the experience of cardboard. After going through the rules it’s not like Scythe digital that can help you learn the game.
No, I don't think it does. They serve different functions. If you have dedicated friends who want to commit to getting together a lot, physical is great. But if you're sick in lockdown during a pandemic, digital is better. But the two experiences feel different. The digital game is more for me and a friend or two, whereas the physical is about a group of people and the social experience. In terms of spoilers, there will be some if you already know the digital game, but for me, they don't define the game, and consequently don't impact my experience. I'd love to hear what others who have played both think though.....
@@LegendaryTactics Thank You for the feed back. I have a friend that if I got the physical copy he would play. My family is not interested in this type of game.
Second point goes to boardgame for me because of one simple reason, digital version chooses an outcome randomly when player should be able to decide. This often comes down to summons going to square a or b or monsters doing the same. This doesnt sound like much, but I need to know where people are moving to make my decisions and I have often found this randomness frustrating as I know it should be up to me and not random ^^
In my mind I automatically jump to physical. Minis are awesome and it's really fun to have physical things to play with. But in reality I'm just super lazy lol. Digital is just so much quicker and easier to get into.
Will playing the digital version ruin the experience of playing the boardgame version at a later point? I own the boardgame but haven't played it yet. Still waiting for the chance to gather a group of friends. So the question is, if it will ruin the experience of playing the boardgame, if I start playing the digital version first?
The game itself plays very similarly, so I think that will be great either way. From a story perspective, I think that yes, the video game version will give some of that away, depending on how far you go in the campaign.
Here's the real question: how transferable are the rules from digital to physical? Like can I learn the game and rules relatively well enough to play the physical?
This is an excellent question. One problem with learning the game digitally is that the software runs the nitty gritty. While you will understand the overarching concepts, you will likely find that some of the minutiae elude you if you try to play the physical copy. For me, I like that all of the details are taken care of, but if I were playing the physical copy, I would definitely be consulting the rulebook frequently.
Forme it's all the same with point 11: which game have better figures for painting and as digital version is more immersive it lacks that painting minis option. So point for board one. Point 12: which version tickle my inner Smaug. And for making my hoard bigger that's also point for board one version. Digital still wins sadly but it's less of crushing victory and more close one 😂 great vid though and happy to find there are people similar to me 😅
Here in Brazil, the board game is extremely expensive I have jaws of the lion , the board game (its easier and not so expensive) And the digital version of tye original game
um the digital version has been bugged for a very long time. more than 6 months. with it only working if you fixed it on your end, by moving files around. i have depression, and i am scared to ever move or change the computer files. i asked them if they could fix it on their end, they said nothing. i have a new pc now and it works, however i am not impressed, not even a little bit. many many times there have been bugs and crashs. the board game version works out of the box! wow! what a miracle!
I bought it when it was in early access, but without the main campaign which came out in October, it really was only a shell of what it is now. Early access definitely isn't the way to go if you want a really polished game. The only bugs in the cardboard edition are when players get the rules wrong. Frosthaven has been delayed many times now, which suggests to me that they're really trying to present a perfect game.
I appreciate this feedback. I'm going to talk to the other creator for our channel who has poured hours into this game, and we'll put out a video that explores this issue.
Agreeing with most, except from multiplayer. I don't think tabletop should have huge advantage in this category. Accessibility is waaay better in digital, i can play often with my friends who are living in different areas with digital where tabletop requires physical meets and travel. Specially in a pandemic, we could play very often due to the fact we don't need to travel and meet up.
I thought of the price after I finished, but then it felt like I was stacking categories against the cardboard. But perhaps I just really have lots of reasons to want to play the digital version. The poll suggests that I'm in the minority.
@@LegendaryTactics we're also only shortly removed from the launch of the digital version, so the poll may be skewed until more people have the chance to explore it more fully..
Digital version looses a big part of the hpbby what is painting the miniatures and printing out scenery and let youre imagination flow seeing the things how you would them see. In a digital version its all given.
I have both, personally I prefer the the digital version. 1. Set up time, 2. On the table top I do my best to not bend the rules to my advantage but sometimes it’s just too hard not to, so when I beat a scenario on the digital version I know I did without any soft cheating. 3. Easier to find people to play the digital version with.
I'd go with digital because you aren't permanently altering physical components of the board game. I hate games that do that. I'm not paying over 100 bucks for a game and permanently destroying altering the pieces.
Yes, it is one of the challenges of legacy games. The other side would say that it is unlikely that you will go through all 95 missions again, but you never know...
Man you really wanted physical to win didn't you. Here's my take. Gloomhaven is clearly designed as a computer game, but the devs wanted to make it a board game as much as possible. When I was playing physical, we kept missing triggers, and the "refresh" and "priority" mechanic implementations constantly left me musing "if this were automated by PC it'd be so much smoother". I think that the fact that digital won even after you awarded double points to physical speaks volumes to how much Gloomhaven was intrinsically meant to be a digital game first and foremost.
It's funny that it came across that way. I actually wanted digital to win for original Gloomhaven. But for Jaws of the Lion, I like the cardboard better.
If your looking for a friend to play with I have similar interests in A&A, and I have yet to play GH but have the digital edition. Totally normal person. If your looking or a opponent i'd love to play ya in A&A :P
i bought the digital version, but refunded it. It works amazingly and its fast and easy to set-up. It sounds amazing with the music and dialog added to it and there is much to love about the digital version but as others already mentioned. boardgames are meant to be played with people gathering together and experiencing the emotions when playing that way. Over voice chat and even on vid call, it just doesn't add that same excitement. Luckily there are also app's to use, that already make the physical version easier to manage and enchant the game with voice overs of the story.
Would you ever consider trying the digital game with laptops around a kitchen table? I haven't tried that, but man, would that ever make setup and takedown clean.
@@LegendaryTactics i have been thinking about that as well, large screen in the room and everyone around it or something, so you dont have to do all the setup and doors opening are more of a surprise.
@@PeterExcelsis Ooo, love the idea of the large screen for the main action. Best of both worlds. If one of the group can't make it for the night, they could sneak out of their meeting and play remotely from the bathroom.
@@LegendaryTactics yea and with a recent example of ubisoft literally removing the crew from peoples library's on steam i have doubled down on physical only
That's a really good point. The thing is, now with Frosthaven out if you want to play you've gotta pay 10x the cost of the video game that will likely be at least another year to be released if we're lucky.
personal i would have to say digital games are really bad, well yes some times they work and some times they work well but if the game is bugged or part of it is bugged, what can you do about it? well nothing, nothing at all. you can send a message to the dev's but they can just ignore you. sure digital games are cheaper and smaller, but if they are broken, then you have paid for nothing.
I think they really took time to get this one right, unlike many other digital games we've previewed early. When bugs impact my experience, I absolutely include that in the review (Bloodrage).
I haven't returned to Blood Rage after it melted down when we reviewed it, but I'm curious if they have since fixed it. I'm sure they didn't leave an unusable product out there, but that initial experience tainted the game for me.
@@LegendaryTactics oh god yes. Pretty much everything on Switch (apart from Nintendo ls 1st party stuff) is on PC and much cheaper. Amazing bit of kit.
That a game is better enjoyed live with friends is true for any game that isn't billed as a solo-only game. Stating the obvious and suddenly proclaiming, "double credit," was dubious and made the score closer than it should have been.
Sure, but the weight of the points is arbitrary to begin with. Is how big a box the game comes in really the same importance as how fun the game is to play?
you didnt talk about bugs once, not once. alot of digital board games are garbage. that is the inter face isnt good. or parts of it dont work. with the disclaimer of early access, people dont have to finish their work or make sure all parts work. but you didnt talk about that. oh how do i feel about your video, well i dont really care. it does look good but thats because the video footage came from the game, not you.
Have you experienced a lot of bugs in the game? My expectation with digital games is that the product they release should be almost perfect. There may be an odd glitch, but that's to be expected with a game on this scale. I didn't include bugs for this particular game because I haven't had any so far. But you might be right that I should rank the game more highly for that reason. Bugs in digital are like typos in a rulebook in cardboard editions. Most of the time they don't impact the game experience, but given the price tag on some of these (Kemet Blood and Sand), I expect them to be flawless. It's not that hard to proof read. For the digital experience, it's also not hard to get playteters willing to critique every aspect of the game. Fortunately, tabletop ports are much smaller scale than most full sized video game counter parts, so there are fewer places to go wrong. I haven't re watched my video yet to see if I still like it, but I can say that my opinion, and none of my arguments have changed since I made it. It's still a really great port, and it's still getting a lot more play than its cardboard cousin. Thanks for your criticisms.
played through the entire campaign digitally and outside of a friend disconnecting online and having to have them jump back in after the round is over it was a great experience. When they got DC'd would live stream on discord if he didnt do all his moves yet, and he would say how to finish up, and then keep going. Never crashed
Sound? You're going to judge a boardgame in a Sound catagory? Does it loose points when you judge it on its Graphics Resolution too? Or how about how the components taste? Seriously? Sound?
I would rate One Night Werewolf and Mansions of Madness, or even 5 minute dungeon quite well on sound. With the integration of apps and board games, I think that's completely valid. Sound adds to my overall experience of a game, and to omit that because the digital game medium uses different elements than the board game would be an imbalanced comparison. To counter act the feeling that such a comparison is unfair, I also include elements like the Minis and the tactile experience. Digital games can't compare with the physical experience, and yet I include that too. They each have their own advantages, and I can't simply ignore some because the other doesn't have it. But if there are categories that I have completely omitted for either board games or digital games, I'd be interested in hearing those gaps.
I think this comparison makes little sence. There are several points that make it impossible for the one game or the other. A digital game always takes less space no matter how small a board game is. It's always easier to set up a digital game no matter how small a board game is and so on. That's not really logical.
Your point is well taken, but physical space in my cupboard is something I can't set aside as a real reason in going digital rather than physical. Conversely, it doesn't make sense to compare a tactile element for digital games, but likewise, it's a reason I would go for the hard copy instead.
Great pointers which you discussed and compared between the digital and physical copies, and I think they are all very logical points. And really, the key elements between a physical board game and a digital version really is the feeling of friendship when played together in a house (add in some wine and snacks too), and I guess digital can never replicate that special bonding feeling. Given the covid situation, digital copy makes sense, beyond that, I’d definitely grab a physical copy too to really enjoy it with my friends!
Covid has certainly changed my way of thinking about gaming. Hopefully I can shift back to pre-covid gathering mentality before long.
Nothing compares to the in person excitement of landing that one scenario defining crit (or the monsters getting that one miss)!
After much anguish deciding whether to buy in on the cardboard versions of Gloomhaven or Frosthaven, knowing full well I'd almost certainly never complete them, the full digital release of Gloomhaven has made me SO glad I didn't throw 100 bucks at either of them to find out - it's brilliant, and my friends and I now have a copy each for the same net price.
I'm thinking of getting another copy to play with my kids, sitting in the same room. It's a game-changer for me too.
The scaled down version of gloomhaven jaws of the lion is only 30 dollars
@@thomgizziz That's on my Christmas list. It seems like a great version to play with non-Gloomers.
It costs $100?
I saw on Amazon it cost $40
Or is it the wrong version or bad version
Though I understand the point you're making, the category "storage" doesn't quite seem fair. A digital version of a game will always beat a physical copy for storage. Might as well grade the two on how well they work when the power is out.
By the same token, the hands-on quality will always go to the board game. But we can't ignore the relative advantages of each medium, so long as we consider it both ways.
@@LegendaryTactics most of the categories are bunk. It reeks of a foregone conclusion rather than a reasonable attempt at being impartial. It is inevitable for that to happen but ignoring it isn't helping anybody.
@@thomgizziz Which categories would you have added or taken away to make a more balanced comparison? My goal was to highlight the best parts of both games and see which had more "best parts".
@@LegendaryTactics Although one of the biggest complaints against the board game is how much work/time it takes to set it all up, take it down, advance to the next scenario, etc.
@@thomgizziz I mean he did say it was his opinion. so being completely impartial doesnt really matter.
This really boils down to how much you value interaction with the real world vs interaction with the digital world. If you want something to take you away from computers and have someone to play with, cardborad all the way else just go digital.
That's true to a large extent. Some games are just better on digital because the computer handles the "bookkeeping" - like "Through the Ages" is much more fun on digital imho
As someone who has played the table top up to retiring one character and played through the first quest on the electronic campaign (Had it for over a year but only redownloaded a couple of days ago and was glad to see the campaign unlocked and all the improvements. I agreee with your rating. As a solo player, the PC version is quite if not exactly like the tabletop. And it is really fun to play it when you can't really make mistakes because the PC version will just not let you do illegal moves. I also like that you can't see what's in the next room, whereas even if we try not to look, its difficult to prepare the dungeon without kinda knowing what's ahead. I would like to see a PC version of Mage Knight now. I think it could be cool and make it easier to play :)
That would be amazing. Mage Knight is really good and definitely deserves an app to run the fiddly bits.
great video dude. kudos for inviting people to criticize you and then being respectful to those who aren't engaging respectfully. you seem like a cool dude.
I do what I can! People definitely have strong opinions. I also frequently find that I'm not as perfect as I initially thought.
@@LegendaryTactics People have very strong opinions, rightfully so. But some are very unnecessary attitudes and more of an attack. Like I said, you handle it very well. Way better than I would lol.
Anyway, I'm buying Gloomhaven digital mostly because of your video. I was on the fence, but your video sold me.
Great comparison video. Great to see your ideas coming forward in a relatively objective manner. I think the comparison between physical and digital is redundant. They hold entirely different experiences, potential, and expectations. Even if the games are as identical as they can be, they are vastly different.
A great example of this is; a physical copy has a tactile aspect. Being able to hold miniatures and cards and tiles feels satisfying. On the flip side, opening the box and seeing this mountain of plastic and card can be intimidating.
It really comes to this for me.
If you enjoy the physicality of a game. If you enjoy the 'in-person' co-op experience. If you enjoy the idea of maybe some small mistakes and a learning curve, then the physical copy is for you.
if you enjoy the convenience of just firing it up. The removal of physical storage needs and the removal of rules checking then the digital version is for you.
Thanks, I appreciate your thoughts. Good points.
So i just got started with the cardboard. Loved it. Then discovered digital. I do love the digital also. Just playing guildmaster, just decompress after work.
But i still prefere cardboard. There is something about touching physical things, the cards, the mini’s. And the cardboard activates my fantasy more. And ofcourse I enjoy playing in real life with friends, have some nice food and drinks.
They're both great depending on the context. During a pandemic, digital rules!
I think you also have to consider price in your metrics. The digital game is about a quarter of the price of the cardboard version. And the cardboard version is not cheap.
I can't believe I didn't include that. You're absolutely right. Though, you do get a lot more tangible and concrete goodies in the box as opposed to the much cheaper pixels.
agree with you especially when you can get it for free now on epic game store the 22 of September 2022
I played through the entire campaign with the physical game and just got the digital version. My biggest problem with the digital is that I found it harder to play. I liked having all the cards in my hand to see what they did. Much easier than clicking on each one, one at a time. I also could see right in front of me what the enemy was doing during the turn so I didn't have to click back to find out what each was doing. I also couldn't always easily tell which enemies were regular and which elite. So I'm not sure I'll continue with the digital. I played solo and have lots of room so I could leave it up for as long as it took. But I do agree with all of your points.
Great argument.
Although I agree digital wins it overall, I disagreed with almost every point. First point I would say is not realistic with a point for digital. I've seen tons of streamers and players who haven't played the physical version be completely overwhelmed, and much of the difficulty of this game is if you know the monster AI which digital doesn't teach. And second point you didn't take into consideration what almost every group does with the physical version, homebrew rules. Yes there is modding in digital but it's a much higher barrier. And sometimes you forget to use the stamina potion that you planned to use, or whatever. And in digital multiplayer you can't restart the round, one misclick and you have to live with the consequences.
These are the best arguments I've heard for the physical version. Thank you for sharing them here. I appreciate that you counter my arguments with logic. Some Gloomhaven purists would be aghast with some homebrew rules, depending on which ones you use, but every group is different, and can maximize the fun factor by using rule tweaks that suit their style. I guess ultimately, the best test is which version gets played more.
In digital there's a restart round option if you press escape, it resets to the very start of the round before cards are chosen, I noticed that all rng stays the same in the case of reset (like notably dmg modifiers)
Oh also Homebrew rules can be enabled in digital without mods
@@maxmustermann-zx9yq Yes there is, but not if you play multiplayer in the digital
@@BurnSchulz you mean the reset button? makes kinda sense since they implemented it as "reset entire round including card selection", would be pretty infuriating to have one guy constantly resetting the actions of all other 3 players, though I don't see why not to keep it in as an option
the whole argument alongside digital vs physical board game really interest me. why should play board game when their is digital? especially when the game is so fiddly
to set-up or keep up? i ask this question to myself when i played through the ages, since that game feels like it works better as digital rather than board game.
and just as i expected, my copy of through the ages rest peacefully in my bookshelf while i playing digital version regularly.
after that when i buy new board game, i start to ask the question ”is this game still worth even when its own digital version of the game comes out?“.
sadly it seems gloomhaven is that kind of game. a board game that not worth as board game, but as digital game.
I had the exact same experience with through the ages. I still think Gloomhaven has a place alongside digital for some people though. It really is a completely different experience.
My friends just bought me the board game because we played some descent in a friends house and loved it. Didn't played gloomhaven yet, but I think the perfect balance is a game like descent, where you have the best of both worlds simultaneously
The rule enforcement is a double-edged sword. In the digital game I often clicked the wrong button and this spoiled my move or even the mission. Instead of confirm target I hit skip attack. Wouldn't happen in the cardboard version.
great discussion
Thank you for saying so! And for watching! Which is your preference?
I think you have your mic a bit too close to your mouth, I keep hearing your saliva making smacking sounds when you talk and it's distracting.
Sorry. It's a sensitive mic and I'm a lugubrious speaker. I appreciate the suggestion
thanks, mate!
excellent video - however, u didn't talk about price - nor how easily accessible either are.
All the same - great overview
Haven't played many hours of both, I lean more towards digital, and largely for the reasons you outlined. I did want to say that because Gloomhaven has stickers, the digital version is much easier to replay. Additionally, it's easier to run multiple games (say one solo and one with friends) if that interests someone.
Good points. Thanks for adding these.
There's also the Tabletop Simulator versions. The best seems to be TTS Enhanced. And that way you buy something that costs 40 bucks, and you can play any number of virtual board games. It also retains much more of the tactile feeling of the physical version and maintains an interesting balance between you having to manually play the game and scripts that aid with set up and some in-scenario stuff.
Thanks for mentioning that. I should have included it in the comparison.
Nice work. Is the campaign in the app identical to the one we played with the carboard version?
They have done some changes, but all with Isaac Childres' approval.
Its not a fair comparisum. A digital version will win for sure. To me, its all about preference... the same as reading a printed magazine or a digital magazine.
That's a good analogy! This video was to weigh the pros and cons of both, which someone purchasing the game should take into consideration. For example, analog version of Gloomhaven takes a lot of time to set up, which is not the case with many analog games, and in a comparison between those games and their digital versions, it may not be much of a consideration.
its accessibility as well as preference. I cannot always get a group together at my house to play the game (considering they live all across the US and Europe). We can however play it very easily online together without doing a live feed on the board game with each their own camera for their cards and that.
One other thing - the game is cheaper digitally on steam (30/40$?) than 120$. But I guess if 4 players play digital they collectively pay 120 total.
Great point. It's nice to be able to spread the cost out, or to play solo for a bargain price.
The digital game isn’t cheaper if you only have a tablet/phone as your digital gaming platform, as the last time that I checked, it cannot be played on a tablet/phone. Having to purchase a computer + steam game makes the digital game cost hundreds of dollars more than the table top version.
Weighing “storage” the same as “game mechanics” is just a little silly imo.
When your cupboard is as full as mine, it's something that goes through my head every time I buy a physical copy of a game because it means I need to send another game or two packing.
One point as well on the physical, I assume most groups like mine at least early on are going to have one player who knows the rules better than everyone else. And it sucks having to be the one that sucks the joy out of the room after a big play by going “well, um, actually, the rules say you can’t do that.”
That's a really good point. So true
Does the digital ruin the experience for the cardboard. I got the digital, but don’t want to ruin the experience of cardboard. After going through the rules it’s not like Scythe digital that can help you learn the game.
No, I don't think it does. They serve different functions. If you have dedicated friends who want to commit to getting together a lot, physical is great. But if you're sick in lockdown during a pandemic, digital is better. But the two experiences feel different. The digital game is more for me and a friend or two, whereas the physical is about a group of people and the social experience. In terms of spoilers, there will be some if you already know the digital game, but for me, they don't define the game, and consequently don't impact my experience. I'd love to hear what others who have played both think though.....
@@LegendaryTactics Thank You for the feed back. I have a friend that if I got the physical copy he would play. My family is not interested in this type of game.
You missed one key category: price. The digital version costs about 1/3 or less what the physical game costs.
Great point! Affordability should definitely factor in. Thanks for the suggestion!!
Second point goes to boardgame for me because of one simple reason, digital version chooses an outcome randomly when player should be able to decide. This often comes down to summons going to square a or b or monsters doing the same. This doesnt sound like much, but I need to know where people are moving to make my decisions and I have often found this randomness frustrating as I know it should be up to me and not random ^^
It's a subtle but important difference. To truly emulate a monster's mindset, wouldn't a bit more randomness be desireable?
As long as the digital version does not run on macOS, the physical version wins by all to none…
Lol. Fair point.
It does run on mac, even though the steam store says it doesnt
@@HalloikbenJim Mac M1 or only Intel ?
That's kinda like saying "nice app but does it run on my Gameboy colour though?"
They're updating it to run on Mac now.
You might wanna score multiple categories as having more weight, ie more points to distribute per category (not 1 point for all stuff)
Good idea. Which ones would you give more points to? For me, the human experience is #1. After that it gets a little murkier.
In my mind I automatically jump to physical. Minis are awesome and it's really fun to have physical things to play with.
But in reality I'm just super lazy lol. Digital is just so much quicker and easier to get into.
Totally agree!
Will playing the digital version ruin the experience of playing the boardgame version at a later point? I own the boardgame but haven't played it yet. Still waiting for the chance to gather a group of friends. So the question is, if it will ruin the experience of playing the boardgame, if I start playing the digital version first?
The game itself plays very similarly, so I think that will be great either way. From a story perspective, I think that yes, the video game version will give some of that away, depending on how far you go in the campaign.
Here's the real question: how transferable are the rules from digital to physical? Like can I learn the game and rules relatively well enough to play the physical?
This is an excellent question. One problem with learning the game digitally is that the software runs the nitty gritty. While you will understand the overarching concepts, you will likely find that some of the minutiae elude you if you try to play the physical copy. For me, I like that all of the details are taken care of, but if I were playing the physical copy, I would definitely be consulting the rulebook frequently.
Forme it's all the same with point 11: which game have better figures for painting and as digital version is more immersive it lacks that painting minis option. So point for board one. Point 12: which version tickle my inner Smaug. And for making my hoard bigger that's also point for board one version. Digital still wins sadly but it's less of crushing victory and more close one 😂 great vid though and happy to find there are people similar to me 😅
Here in Brazil, the board game is extremely expensive
I have jaws of the lion , the board game (its easier and not so expensive)
And the digital version of tye original game
um the digital version has been bugged for a very long time. more than 6 months. with it only working if you fixed it on your end, by moving files around. i have depression, and i am scared to ever move or change the computer files. i asked them if they could fix it on their end, they said nothing. i have a new pc now and it works, however i am not impressed, not even a little bit. many many times there have been bugs and crashs. the board game version works out of the box! wow! what a miracle!
I bought it when it was in early access, but without the main campaign which came out in October, it really was only a shell of what it is now. Early access definitely isn't the way to go if you want a really polished game. The only bugs in the cardboard edition are when players get the rules wrong. Frosthaven has been delayed many times now, which suggests to me that they're really trying to present a perfect game.
I appreciate this feedback. I'm going to talk to the other creator for our channel who has poured hours into this game, and we'll put out a video that explores this issue.
@@LegendaryTactics thank you
Agreeing with most, except from multiplayer. I don't think tabletop should have huge advantage in this category. Accessibility is waaay better in digital, i can play often with my friends who are living in different areas with digital where tabletop requires physical meets and travel.
Specially in a pandemic, we could play very often due to the fact we don't need to travel and meet up.
Yes, good points. Playing remotely is sometimes necessary, but just never as good as the analog experience...
Very nice.
I would have included price and possibly length of play (how long does it take to play a campaign?)!
I thought of the price after I finished, but then it felt like I was stacking categories against the cardboard. But perhaps I just really have lots of reasons to want to play the digital version. The poll suggests that I'm in the minority.
@@LegendaryTactics we're also only shortly removed from the launch of the digital version, so the poll may be skewed until more people have the chance to explore it more fully..
@@hotice88uk That's a very good point. I'll be curious to return to this question in a year.
@@hotice88uk hype works when something is new, most likely it will get worse for the digital version
Digital version looses a big part of the hpbby what is painting the miniatures and printing out scenery and let youre imagination flow seeing the things how you would them see. In a digital version its all given.
Yes, it is the downside of all digital editions of board games. You lose the tactile element...Have you painted all the Gloomhaven minis?
if you want a smaller gloomhaven, you can just buy jaws of the lion
Yes! This one of on my shelf. It'll hit the table as soon as I'm done Betrayal Legacy. But man, that box is ridiculously heavy given its size.
I have both, personally I prefer the the digital version. 1. Set up time, 2. On the table top I do my best to not bend the rules to my advantage but sometimes it’s just too hard not to, so when I beat a scenario on the digital version I know I did without any soft cheating. 3. Easier to find people to play the digital version with.
"Soft cheating". What a great term. But so true.
I'd go with digital because you aren't permanently altering physical components of the board game. I hate games that do that. I'm not paying over 100 bucks for a game and permanently destroying altering the pieces.
Yes, it is one of the challenges of legacy games. The other side would say that it is unlikely that you will go through all 95 missions again, but you never know...
Man you really wanted physical to win didn't you. Here's my take. Gloomhaven is clearly designed as a computer game, but the devs wanted to make it a board game as much as possible. When I was playing physical, we kept missing triggers, and the "refresh" and "priority" mechanic implementations constantly left me musing "if this were automated by PC it'd be so much smoother". I think that the fact that digital won even after you awarded double points to physical speaks volumes to how much Gloomhaven was intrinsically meant to be a digital game first and foremost.
It's funny that it came across that way. I actually wanted digital to win for original Gloomhaven. But for Jaws of the Lion, I like the cardboard better.
If your looking for a friend to play with I have similar interests in A&A, and I have yet to play GH but have the digital edition. Totally normal person. If your looking or a opponent i'd love to play ya in A&A :P
Thanks. So many games, so little time.
i bought the digital version, but refunded it. It works amazingly and its fast and easy to set-up. It sounds amazing with the music and dialog added to it and there is much to love about the digital version but as others already mentioned. boardgames are meant to be played with people gathering together and experiencing the emotions when playing that way. Over voice chat and even on vid call, it just doesn't add that same excitement. Luckily there are also app's to use, that already make the physical version easier to manage and enchant the game with voice overs of the story.
Would you ever consider trying the digital game with laptops around a kitchen table? I haven't tried that, but man, would that ever make setup and takedown clean.
@@LegendaryTactics i have been thinking about that as well, large screen in the room and everyone around it or something, so you dont have to do all the setup and doors opening are more of a surprise.
@@PeterExcelsis Ooo, love the idea of the large screen for the main action. Best of both worlds. If one of the group can't make it for the night, they could sneak out of their meeting and play remotely from the bathroom.
did you talk to any one who bought the digital version more than two years ago ?
The full game was just released about 4 months ago. The early access didn't include the main scenarios which are the focus of my comparison.
The full game was just released about 4 months ago. The early access didn't include the main scenarios which are the focus of my comparison.
as far as im concerned u only have the right to play the digital version wich can easily be taken away and actually own the physical version
There's something to be said for tangibly owning it.
@@LegendaryTactics yea and with a recent example of ubisoft literally removing the crew from peoples library's on steam i have doubled down on physical only
Price? IT costs more than 10x to Play this as a Board game
That's a really good point. The thing is, now with Frosthaven out if you want to play you've gotta pay 10x the cost of the video game that will likely be at least another year to be released if we're lucky.
personal i would have to say digital games are really bad, well yes some times they work and some times they work well but if the game is bugged or part of it is bugged, what can you do about it? well nothing, nothing at all. you can send a message to the dev's but they can just ignore you. sure digital games are cheaper and smaller, but if they are broken, then you have paid for nothing.
I think they really took time to get this one right, unlike many other digital games we've previewed early. When bugs impact my experience, I absolutely include that in the review (Bloodrage).
I haven't returned to Blood Rage after it melted down when we reviewed it, but I'm curious if they have since fixed it. I'm sure they didn't leave an unusable product out there, but that initial experience tainted the game for me.
Plays great on a Steam Deck too.
Good to hear. Is the steam deck better than a Switch? I'm tempted.....
@@LegendaryTactics oh god yes. Pretty much everything on Switch (apart from Nintendo ls 1st party stuff) is on PC and much cheaper. Amazing bit of kit.
is the digital game on steam and is it local co-op for my family to play together?
That a game is better enjoyed live with friends is true for any game that isn't billed as a solo-only game. Stating the obvious and suddenly proclaiming, "double credit," was dubious and made the score closer than it should have been.
Your point is well taken. Sorry if the result felt contrived. For me, the inter player experience really is crucial though.
Sure, but the weight of the points is arbitrary to begin with. Is how big a box the game comes in really the same importance as how fun the game is to play?
you didnt talk about bugs once, not once. alot of digital board games are garbage. that is the inter face isnt good. or parts of it dont work. with the disclaimer of early access, people dont have to finish their work or make sure all parts work. but you didnt talk about that. oh how do i feel about your video, well i dont really care. it does look good but thats because the video footage came from the game, not you.
Have you experienced a lot of bugs in the game? My expectation with digital games is that the product they release should be almost perfect. There may be an odd glitch, but that's to be expected with a game on this scale. I didn't include bugs for this particular game because I haven't had any so far. But you might be right that I should rank the game more highly for that reason. Bugs in digital are like typos in a rulebook in cardboard editions. Most of the time they don't impact the game experience, but given the price tag on some of these (Kemet Blood and Sand), I expect them to be flawless. It's not that hard to proof read. For the digital experience, it's also not hard to get playteters willing to critique every aspect of the game. Fortunately, tabletop ports are much smaller scale than most full sized video game counter parts, so there are fewer places to go wrong. I haven't re watched my video yet to see if I still like it, but I can say that my opinion, and none of my arguments have changed since I made it. It's still a really great port, and it's still getting a lot more play than its cardboard cousin. Thanks for your criticisms.
played through the entire campaign digitally and outside of a friend disconnecting online and having to have them jump back in after the round is over it was a great experience. When they got DC'd would live stream on discord if he didnt do all his moves yet, and he would say how to finish up, and then keep going. Never crashed
Yelling at your discerning taste and praising your ignorance. 😂
I'm embracing both.
Sound? You're going to judge a boardgame in a Sound catagory? Does it loose points when you judge it on its Graphics Resolution too? Or how about how the components taste?
Seriously? Sound?
I would rate One Night Werewolf and Mansions of Madness, or even 5 minute dungeon quite well on sound. With the integration of apps and board games, I think that's completely valid. Sound adds to my overall experience of a game, and to omit that because the digital game medium uses different elements than the board game would be an imbalanced comparison. To counter act the feeling that such a comparison is unfair, I also include elements like the Minis and the tactile experience. Digital games can't compare with the physical experience, and yet I include that too. They each have their own advantages, and I can't simply ignore some because the other doesn't have it. But if there are categories that I have completely omitted for either board games or digital games, I'd be interested in hearing those gaps.
Digital local co-op. The board game has a lot to track
I think this comparison makes little sence. There are several points that make it impossible for the one game or the other.
A digital game always takes less space no matter how small a board game is. It's always easier to set up a digital game no matter how small a board game is and so on. That's not really logical.
Your point is well taken, but physical space in my cupboard is something I can't set aside as a real reason in going digital rather than physical. Conversely, it doesn't make sense to compare a tactile element for digital games, but likewise, it's a reason I would go for the hard copy instead.
It is very logical. One of the biggest complaints about the physical copy is how long it takes to setup to actually play the game.