Accident Case Study: Deadly Disorientation

Поділитися
Вставка
  • Опубліковано 19 гру 2024

КОМЕНТАРІ • 404

  • @ryanmunz6509
    @ryanmunz6509 7 днів тому +224

    I'm a pilot based out of the same airport this pilot was trying to land at. I've landed there hundreds of times and flown that ILS into 28R many times, and I've never once gotten a "ILS 28R, circle to land 23" clearance. I've never even used runway 23 as anything other than a taxiway. Point being, this was a somewhat atypical clearance and my hunch is the pilot was caught off guard by it, and didn't really understand what it meant. The way he was tripping over his readback felt like he wanted to ask for clarification but maybe didn't want to because no pilot wants to embarrass themselves in front of ATC, even when it's probably safer to speak up (I've been guilty of this many times myself). Then maybe he started drifting off course while trying to reconfigure his avionics while being bounced around by turbulence? Those touch screens are not the easiest to use in bumpy air, and I can only imagine being unsure about the approach you're even setting up and/or lacking proficiency in circle to land approaches would only add to the stress.
    I think the big thing I'm taking away from this is how important it is to stay proficient not just on the situations you expect, but on the ones you don't. I got my instrument rating only recently but I can already feel some of my knowledge/recall of certain procedures starting to fade... and I can imagine how much worse it gets for long-time amateur pilots like this one. Continuously brushing up on procedures/scenarios you might never use might not be the most fun thing about being a pilot, but it sure feels important after watching this.

    • @justingarrett4125
      @justingarrett4125 7 днів тому +3

      Would it have been reasonable for pilot to request clearance for 28R and cancel the circle to 23R? Assuming that would have been a less complicated landing procedure.

    • @ryanmunz6509
      @ryanmunz6509 7 днів тому +6

      @@justingarrett4125 I think it's entirely reasonable to make the request if you're not comfortable with a given clearance. Generally it does take pretty significant wind conditions for Montgomery to switch operations away from 28L & 28R though, so potentially he would have had to go missed anyway due to excessive crosswind at 28R... but still could've been the safer option if this pilot wasn't proficient on circle to land procedures.

    • @chasefranzen
      @chasefranzen 7 днів тому +19

      CFII that teaches out of MYF. During southerly surface winds, it’s VERY common to get “cleared ILS 28R, circle to land 23.” It doesn’t happen everyday, but I’ve probably flown them over a dozen times with students - again, during southerlies. Southerlies usually mean not great weather, though - and San Diego pilots are not great at flying in the weather (doesn’t happen often).
      I think this shows how dangerous circle to land approaches can be. To the video’s point - the pilot got an IPC, but the CFII didn’t make any notation about a circle to land approach. It’s REQUIRED for an IPC.
      You don’t want the first time you’ve flown a circle to land approach in five years to be a day with sub optimal conditions.

    • @ryanmunz6509
      @ryanmunz6509 7 днів тому +7

      @@chasefranzen hey! your videos helped me get through my instrument training :). And yeah... I'm just saying lower time pilots (like me) haven't necessarily operated at MYF on days with southerlies before (or as much). Not sure if it was a factor for this pilot or not, but I do know that I've certainly experienced confirmation bias type moments where something unexpected can cause me to fall behind the airplane.

    • @j700jam4
      @j700jam4 7 днів тому +5

      Agreed but I think he started drifting of the ils 28 as he had in his mind he was land 23 and just wanted to go straight to base 23.

  • @scottstp7084
    @scottstp7084 7 днів тому +95

    Pilot was a doctor (once again) who was returning from his practice in Yuma Az, and the fatality on the ground was a 61 year old UPS driver who was planning to retire soon.

    • @3dtroll539
      @3dtroll539 6 днів тому +2

      @@JohnKim-py7pv A little callous.

    • @NathansVideos46
      @NathansVideos46 6 днів тому +22

      ​@@JohnKim-py7pv Are you trying to be funny?

    • @tonylevine2716
      @tonylevine2716 5 днів тому +10

      @@JohnKim-py7pv Not funny. Geez.

    • @Whyusemyname
      @Whyusemyname 5 днів тому +5

      @@NathansVideos46seems like that was an attempt at humor since the UPS driver died and dead people can’t work. It definitely wasn’t very original but it’s safe to say he was trying to be funny.

    • @rickdc3
      @rickdc3 4 дні тому

      Stupid comment. The majority of pilots who crash aren't doctors. But, flying is expensive, so aircraft owners are typically successful people.

  • @TheCymbalProject
    @TheCymbalProject 7 днів тому +67

    Well, we're all here again... because someone else isn't.
    Fly safe people.

  • @donmoore7785
    @donmoore7785 6 днів тому +23

    I have a grand total of 4 hrs flight time. I recognized that flying was not for me. Videos like this confirm that for me, I made the right choice. I would not have the discipline needed to not make deadly mistakes.

    • @GoToPhx
      @GoToPhx 6 днів тому +12

      Smart of you to recognize this and be honest with yourself

    • @industrieundtechnik1761
      @industrieundtechnik1761 3 дні тому +1

      Yes you are right! Some are easily not suitable its about reaction and multitask in stressful situations. If your capacity is just too low its better to admit this. Beeing honest with your self is always a good thing. If you already was the kind of boy in school who got hit with the ball on your head in any sportsgame, you are properly wrong in flying. You still can play sim or find another nice hobby. I feel you made the right decision.

  • @BayAreaMotorcycleCommuting
    @BayAreaMotorcycleCommuting 7 днів тому +124

    Another informative, respectful, and brilliantly-produced breakdown. Thank you so much for continuing to make these

    • @kdawson020279
      @kdawson020279 7 днів тому +1

      Yes. The lessons need to live on, and I am glad to see them pop up in my feed. Not because I want to hear about tragedy, but because we have to continue to talk about tragedy to hopefully avoid it.

    • @gendaminoru3195
      @gendaminoru3195 6 днів тому

      I would posit that the pilot flying did not sound very sharp or sure of himself as his readbacks were lacking and incomplete. And then he didn't seem to have a clear mental picture of his transition of approach in mind - causing him to get behind. Perhaps he was distracted or not well. But what is not clear is why does he keep saying that he is complying while executing opposite maneuvers. ATC was very clear an emphatic and could not really do better, except maybe declare an emergency on his behalf and get him on the ground, but MTY was the closest... The doctor would not be saved... :(

    • @eco2geek.
      @eco2geek. 6 днів тому +1

      @@gregcharest443 > Is the "community left with troubling questions" every time someone is killed in an
      > automobile accident in their city? I doubt it.
      As a matter of fact, in the city I live in, where they're trying to implement a program called Vision Zero (i.e. no pedestrian/bicycling fatalities caused by vehicular accidents, regardless of fault) without much luck, yes it does. For better or worse.

    • @HyenaEmpyema
      @HyenaEmpyema 6 днів тому +2

      ​@@gregcharest443 the "troubling questions" are what exactly caused him to get behind the airplane. Since he wasn't communicating what exactly he was struggling with. I agree the phrase is becoming cliche. But the bulk of the video was technical and informative

  • @maxsmodels
    @maxsmodels 7 днів тому +45

    Spatial D is a killer and no pilot is immune. I am a 20,000+ ATP who flies regularly and I can tell you NO ONE IS IMMUNE! If things are falling apart, level the wings, climb to safety and get out of danger then come back and start again once you have re-composed your SA or just divert. There is no shame in that.

    • @KlaunFuhrer-du7fr
      @KlaunFuhrer-du7fr 7 днів тому +6

      hardest for humans is to force yourself to trust the instruments more than your senses

  • @lead4you
    @lead4you 7 днів тому +68

    a good way to experience spatial disorientation without risking your life is to use a VR you will feel like your body is moving in ways its not! its why people fall over with VR headsets closest thing i can think of to explain it to someone

    • @chrisstromberg6527
      @chrisstromberg6527 5 днів тому

      Or you can close your eyes and spin around multiple times and then try walking a straight line.

    • @lead4you
      @lead4you 5 днів тому +3

      @chrisstromberg6527 being dizzy is not like being spatially disoriented they are different things

  • @norgeek
    @norgeek 7 днів тому +67

    "altitude alert, climb immediately, climb the plane, maintain 5000, expedite climb, climb the airplane please" is such a terrifyingly succinct atc transmission 😱 like... level the horizon, firewall the throttles, pull up, and *then* figure out wtf went wrong enough to get the voice in the headset to go into lifesaving mode..

    • @eski152
      @eski152 2 дні тому

      horrible phraseology - maintain calm steady clear instructions - gives confidence

    • @norgeek
      @norgeek День тому +4

      @eski152 urgency instructions are clear, they're as clear as it can get. Immediately and expedite are aviation code for "shit is about to hit the fan, if you want to land in one piece do this thing right now"

  • @WingZeroType
    @WingZeroType 7 днів тому +18

    Absolutely incredible quality of production. Thank you for another informative episode

    • @IncorrigibleBigotry
      @IncorrigibleBigotry 6 днів тому +2

      Bar none the best produced and most professionel content for aviation incidents and accidents. I discovered this channel half a year ago, and I've watch every single one of these accident case studies, and I'm always blown away by how perfect these videos are. They deserve more subs and viewers.

  • @Nigel-McMagmus
    @Nigel-McMagmus 6 днів тому +3

    I really missed these uploads, really puts you in the headspace of the pilot compared to a standard accident analysis. For me, it helps to digest the information and makes it clear how ANY pilot can end up here, and figure out ways to recognize early warning signs to avoid these types of accidents ourselves.

  • @SwavimanKumar
    @SwavimanKumar 6 днів тому +8

    these videos are pure gold. thnx a lot.

  • @alexanderwilliams-hoffman5436
    @alexanderwilliams-hoffman5436 6 днів тому +3

    Never stop making these. Thank you

  • @SkyFive-5
    @SkyFive-5 7 днів тому +25

    Given the same circumstance; communicate, confess and comply. There's no shame telling the controller I'm in over my head, vector to VFR if possible.

    • @tyrotrainer765
      @tyrotrainer765 6 днів тому +3

      Totally agree. I took student pilots on many ATC visits and controllers ALWAYS emphasised to the kids that this was the best thing to do. Firstly it could save the pilot from a lot of drama, and secondly for ATC it is excellent training that helps them in their currency. Controllers usually have a PPL or some flying experience and know exactly how easily pilots can become overwhelmed in non-standard situations.

    • @Annii_Oakley_
      @Annii_Oakley_ 6 днів тому +1

      I really like this. It’s okay not to know things. Admit defeat and make it home to your family…
      I wish people with pride realized just how much nobody cares but themselves.

  • @hectorherbert6585
    @hectorherbert6585 7 днів тому +18

    at 16.02 in the vid..this is the moment when as a pilot you immediately decide that landing on this missed approach is no longer an option...regroup..speak to ATC , confirm your mistake & ask for help to turn around and re-work a new ,clean and proper landing approach....keep cool..and fly the damn airplane...

  • @RMR1
    @RMR1 7 днів тому +31

    There's something about this one that's always baffled me a little. An experienced, instrument-rated pilot becomes spatially disoriented on a route and approach he's flown dozens, if not hundreds, of times? I know it can happen to anyone -- and does happen, all too often -- regardless of experience, rating or familiarity. Still, there's something about the pilot's behavior and speech that strikes me as odd -- beyond the kind of stress and clipped responses you hear from pilots behind the airplane.
    I know the tox screen showed no alcohol or drugs in his system, but I wonder if he had a medical emergency of some kind -- maybe without even realizing it, like a TIA or more serious stroke, or a mild heart attack -- that compromised his judgment. An autopsy wouldn't necessarily be able to spot such damage, especially in someone whose body was likely not intact following the crash, to put it delicately.

    • @bobwilson758
      @bobwilson758 7 днів тому +1

      Agreed -

    • @badmonkey2222
      @badmonkey2222 7 днів тому +5

      I used to live a mile from that airport Runway 23 was rarely ever used in fact most GA pilots used it for a taxiway so I'm baffled is why he was even given clearance for that Runway maybe caught him off guard he seemed like he wanted to ask about it but didn't want to be a problem it just seems like he had something you wanted to say but couldn't spit it out.

    • @thedevilinthecircuit1414
      @thedevilinthecircuit1414 7 днів тому +1

      My thoughts exactly. I think if he were disoriented, his failure to stay on the localizer would've resulted in erratic changes in heading. It appears to me to be a medical crisis.

    • @j700jam4
      @j700jam4 7 днів тому +5

      Definitely not a medical problem. He was clearly unfamiliar with the circle to land procedure. He had it in his head he was joining base for 23 and just ignored the localiser approach to 28 and went straight to left base to 23.

    • @jiyushugi1085
      @jiyushugi1085 7 днів тому +2

      He was not a native speaker. That combined with high stress levels was the cause of the power radio work.

  • @stephenlewis652
    @stephenlewis652 7 днів тому +10

    I think from the ATC clearance for him to do the ILS 28R circle to land Rwy 23, the pilot was confused on what he was supposed to do. It was apparent in his read back of the clearance. He seemed to fall apart after that. Circling approaches can be difficult for one not familiar or never having had the proper training on what to do.

    • @j700jam4
      @j700jam4 7 днів тому +1

      Yes definately , my ir skills test was an ils with a circling approach to the opposite runway. Totally three me but I pulled it off and passed. I think he went right of the 28 localised because he wanted to go straight to left base 23 as he was cleared to land 23. He just ignored 28 localised as he didn't know the procedure.

    • @webcucciolo
      @webcucciolo 7 днів тому +2

      @@j700jam4 I got the same impression. He veered off course quite straight, as if in an extended base for 23, and queried if he was cleared for 23. Looks almost as if he didn't know the procedure, yet circling approaches are quite standard: descend on the initial approach down to circling decision altitude. If airport is in sight, circle to the actual landing runway while always keeping visual contact. Otherwise, execute published missed approach. From other comments I read that circling approaches are not uncommon at that airport.

  • @wetter4293
    @wetter4293 4 дні тому +1

    Good to know you guys are still doing videos.
    ALSO, We should mandate spatial orientation familiarity training.

  • @ronduncan9527
    @ronduncan9527 7 днів тому +16

    Always love Accident Case Studies! Always very informative.

    • @Jmg831
      @Jmg831 7 днів тому

      Now with a different voice but just as informative and well done

    • @gendaminoru3195
      @gendaminoru3195 6 днів тому

      Yup, I've seen 3 on this particular accident. They are so sad and hard to imagine how people get themselves into these situations. New voice but a 414W instead of a 340 is depicted - prolly now 340 sim avail?

  • @seeingeyegod
    @seeingeyegod 7 днів тому +70

    When ATC starts calling you sir over and over again you're in trouble

  • @noahmichael2213
    @noahmichael2213 7 днів тому +35

    I've never flown an airplane and have no desire to ever fly one but I love these videos. They're so interesting. Thank you

    • @dannagy546
      @dannagy546 7 днів тому +8

      They teach us about human nature, not just aviation, very investing things to learn about

  • @bobwilson758
    @bobwilson758 7 днів тому +12

    Our United Parcel Service brother was killed while doing his job . Damn . ❤

  • @steevo7264
    @steevo7264 6 днів тому +12

    Am I the only one who feels the NTSB got the accident cause wrong? It appeared to me that medical incapacity caused the accident. Degraded voice communication and aircraft control is noted. If it was VFR near the end, why wouldn't the pilot recover? A shoulder strap on a slumping person in the left seat allows yoke contact to roll the aircraft to the right. All speculation on my part, but am I wrong in this theory?

    • @LimaFoxtrot
      @LimaFoxtrot 6 днів тому +5

      No, i'm totally with you.
      I’m going to hard disagree with the NTSB and ASI on this one. I think everyone took the easy way out. This had NOTHING TO DO with a circling approach. He was still miles from the field, he couldn’t even get established on final.
      The pilot was high time, commercial cert, instrument rated, stayed proficient it seems, travelled this route a million times on the regular, had a glass panel, etc.
      You can see from the footage that it’s a pretty standard, broken, thin classic California marine layer. I find it hard to believe he got disoriented in that and even so, you’ll pop out before you’re in a position to hit the ground. He couldn’t even climb the aircraft.
      Look, this is SoCal, our turbulence is rarely so crazy that you can’t hit the buttons on your autopilot. Especially with a marine layer day - that indicates more stable air than anything.
      He’s also got a GFC600 auto pilot and like all the modern Garmin auto pilots, it has the blue LVL button. If you get lost, hit the button and at least get wings level.
      Really a stretch here with “the in and out of the sunshine could have been blinding and disorienting.” Come on man.
      Everyone that analyzed this accident afterwards, moved more towards a medical emergency. If you listed to all of the audio, it also sounds like he’s having a stroke on the radio. Of course, NTSB probably doesn’t have enough data to make that call so they just lazily dismiss it as spatial disorientation.

    • @dermick
      @dermick 6 днів тому

      @@LimaFoxtrot True, but would there be any way for the NTSB to prove or disprove either spacial disorientation or medical event? While a medical event is certainly a possibility, I think we can all learn more from the assumption that it was spacial disorientation.

    • @LimaFoxtrot
      @LimaFoxtrot 6 днів тому

      @@dermickthey probably can’t really prove a medical event. But saying “well let’s just make something up because we can learn from another Spacial D story” is not just terrible investigation skills, but creates a false scenario. So in actuality, we’re not learning much of anything. The effects of Spatial D are well known. We don’t need a fake scenario to learn more about it.

    • @HyperSpaceProphet
      @HyperSpaceProphet 5 днів тому +6

      As an owner of a 340 with a 750 I have to agree with you. The guy could have flown with the heading bug and the autopilot, he was experienced enough to have that in his toolbox. 140 or so hours since the upgrade give LOTS of time to become proficient.
      I am betting a stroke or something like that. He was low for long enough on the descent that his issue likely wasn't hypoxia, but that could have been the precipitating event. His readbacks to ATC were...odd. One might conclude that he had a medical issue that led to the disorientation,. A 340 is a pretty simple and stable airplane to fly.

    • @julianturecek2373
      @julianturecek2373 5 днів тому +3

      He was surprised by the instruction of ILS28R then circle to land on 23, never understood what he was meant to be doing, never sought clarification. But that’s why he was flying to the north of the track into 28R. All his radio calls are further evidence of his confusion.

  • @Tyler_Kent
    @Tyler_Kent 5 днів тому +2

    Great job by the ATC to be clear and firm. That is my expert opinion based on approximately 800 aviation crash video hours since obtaining my YT account 15yrs ago 😬

  • @libertine5606
    @libertine5606 7 днів тому +24

    You missed the most important part of the suggestions. #1- Realize that you are experiencing S.D. Even to the point of saying to yourself, out loud. "I am experiencing S.D. and I must trust my instruments". #2 - Confess to ATC. "I am experiencing moderate turbulence and am having problems keeping a heading and altitude and require some assistance."
    I once flipped a Departure Procedure when taking it out of the book. It was late at night, 700' overcast, and raining. One the other side was a D.P. for the same runway and it made sense from that runway. Upon departure ATC told me I was off course for my assigned D.P. I double checked everything, except checking that I had the right D.P. , and all was correct. This all happened in less than 10 seconds when ATC said again that I was off course.
    After that second time I immediately requested radar vectors until I could figure out what was wrong. Which was a simple heading change and direct to the VOR when able. Once established I reviewed again the D.P. It was then that I realized that I had flipped the chart after identifying the correct one. I then "confessed" to the controller what had happened.
    We all make mistakes and we should do everything to minimize them. However, we should be ready to "call in the team" for assistance. I had failed in using the correct D.P. However, I was pleased with taking action quickly and asking for assistance until I could figure what was wrong.
    I have seen many controllers make many mistakes. And we know that even highly trained and experienced military pilots have succumbed to S.D. There is no shame in admitting it is happening and taking decisive action to mitigate it.

    • @Morpheen999
      @Morpheen999 7 днів тому +2

      You would think, feeling any amount of SD he could've just engaged the Autopilot

    • @libertine5606
      @libertine5606 7 днів тому +4

      @@Morpheen999 Since it was a short flight you would think that he had plenty of fuel. I know that sometimes how things play out can lead us to poor decision making.
      Maybe the distraction of the turbulence. Maybe, the distraction of a circle to land. Maybe the distraction of in and out of clouds or being tired because of work the day before.
      He was flying a very complex plane and was well certified. The take away to me is that anyone can get drawn into these "sucker holes" and I must mentally prepare that for them before they happen. That they could happen to us, that we need to be able to always have an out, and to be ready to ask for help. If you are getting behind the plane ask for help, take yourself out of the line up, and get your head straight.

    • @dermick
      @dermick 6 днів тому +1

      @@libertine5606 Excellent advice from both of your comments.

  • @sluxi
    @sluxi 3 дні тому

    These case study videos are excellent.

  • @maka5065
    @maka5065 3 дні тому +1

    NEW AOPA VIDEO 🎉🎉🎉

  • @AZ0986688
    @AZ0986688 5 днів тому +3

    This is a great aviiatiom channel😢😊❤😊😊😊😊

  • @danahavron9285
    @danahavron9285 6 днів тому +4

    Found it interesting that the pilot never did any "read backs" on the instructions that were given him by ATC. Possibly, if he had, it could have assisted him in establishing that he was getting behind the airplane, and he needed to clean up his procedures.

  • @PHa-l6v
    @PHa-l6v 7 днів тому +3

    Another good video!

  • @chuck_in_socal
    @chuck_in_socal 6 днів тому +3

    He froze up for some reason. Medical, fear, instrument malfunction,…we’ll never know.

  • @marshie1337
    @marshie1337 7 днів тому +3

    i love when these are uploaded. always a great watch with a lot of good info.

  • @nickjames6813
    @nickjames6813 6 днів тому +15

    My Christmas List(so far)this year:
    1. *more case studies*
    2. *more Accident Case Studies*

    • @moxievintage1390
      @moxievintage1390 3 дні тому

      Right there with ya. My dog walking goes MUCH much better with more case studies! I can recite most of them verbatim at this point!

    • @nickjames6813
      @nickjames6813 3 дні тому

      @ Quantity, sure lots of channels Pilot Debrief, Green Dot Aviation, others. That’s quantity; THIS is quality. Production, quality.

  • @bd5289
    @bd5289 5 днів тому

    Great analysis and lessons shared.

  • @JohnKim-py7pv
    @JohnKim-py7pv 7 днів тому +2

    Godspeed to both the pilot and spectacularly unlucky UPS driver. I have to say, the pilot sounded distracted/tired/disoriented/confused from his very first transmission. I don’t wish to speculate , but perhaps he was suffering a medical crisis (stroke of some type) or was under the influence of narcotics or alcohol.
    My ex girlfriend’s dad was a pilot. He did drug runs in the 80s in a Piper Cherokee. He was a real seat of the pants type pilot. Didn’t use a checklist and his “preflight inspection” consisted of walking around the airplane once. He took us up a few times, and never without a 6 pack of Heineken at his side.
    Once we got trapped in clouds/weather along with some pretty significant turbulence. We were bobbing around like a cork in the ocean. It was the only time I saw him concerned. It was then, as he took a monster swig from the bottle, that he confided that not only was he NOT IFR rated, but he didn’t even have a valid pilots license!! Eventually the weather cleared and we landed without incident.
    Needless to say it was the last time I flew with him. He kept inviting me on various weekends, and I finally told him that I would go up again with him, but that the booze made me uncomfortable. Well that was that. I may as well have told him to kiss my ass from the way he reacted. Never saw the man again.
    He actually played a role in my gf and I breaking up too - telling her that I was “the biggest pussy he ever met” and that I was “lucky” he didn’t “beat the brakes” off of me. Even though I made a social gaffe by mentioning the booze, and the odds were 99.9% that nothing would have happened, I still didn’t like the idea of putting my life in the hands of a practicing alcoholic with questionable risk management skills. Maybe I was being soft but as I get older and watch these videos I don’t necessarily regret my decision.

    • @Kaipeternicolas
      @Kaipeternicolas 7 днів тому +2

      That was an interesting read 😮

    • @eclectictech
      @eclectictech 6 днів тому +2

      Yes, interesting, wondering if that guy died in a plane or ground vehicle crash?
      Good you're not connected with that guy in any way anymore!

  • @jiyushugi1085
    @jiyushugi1085 7 днів тому +5

    It is both a blessing and curse to live and fly in an area where the weather is generally benign. A blessing for the low-stress flying and curse because one may not develop the flying skills needed for IMC.
    All the fancy nav gear in the world can't compensate for a lack of basic flying skills.

  • @ritchierich2820
    @ritchierich2820 7 днів тому +1

    Love the case studies

  • @Cornholio
    @Cornholio 5 днів тому +1

    R.I.P Dr. Sugata Das (pilot), Steve Krueger (ups driver)

  • @stanislavkostarnov2157
    @stanislavkostarnov2157 7 днів тому +9

    your graphics are becoming truly amazing

    • @lead4you
      @lead4you 7 днів тому +6

      The plane flying graphics are from MSFS2020

  • @douglasphillips1203
    @douglasphillips1203 7 днів тому +4

    I wonder if he had done a lot of IFR approaches in VFR conditions and ended up not completely staying proficient with trusting his instruments. Once he was really truly in IMC conditions, faced with an approach he wasn't familiar with, he got way behind because he wasn't really proficient even though he had it on the books.

    • @jumpingbean4735
      @jumpingbean4735 7 днів тому +1

      he had logged approx 69 hrs total actual IMC (123 hr simulated), including several actual in the month preceding the accident and 0.6 hr actual IMC and a GPS approach within several days of the accident

  • @timothywackerle2374
    @timothywackerle2374 7 днів тому +11

    His speech seemed somewhat garbled in several of his replies. He may have been having a stroke.

    • @j700jam4
      @j700jam4 4 дні тому

      @@timothywackerle2374 😂

  • @canlib
    @canlib 7 днів тому +2

    Scary and terrifying.The horror.

  • @dmorga1
    @dmorga1 7 днів тому +23

    I think an alternative explanation for this fairly experienced pilot is he sounds out of breath and a little panicked at times, like a medical event.

    • @jiyushugi1085
      @jiyushugi1085 7 днів тому

      Non pilots often assume this because they don't know how easy it is to kill yourself in an airplane.

    • @greggpedder
      @greggpedder 5 днів тому +1

      Agreed. I thought the same.

    • @jiyushugi1085
      @jiyushugi1085 5 днів тому +3

      That's a common assumption that non-pilots make because they don't understand how easy it is to off yourself in an airplane. In addition, this gentleman was a non-native speaker and lacked the skills to hand-fly his airplane in IMC.

  • @heinzriemann3213
    @heinzriemann3213 7 днів тому +4

    As a layman it is very hard to understand how instrument-rated and competent pilots fail to disregard everything else and focus on the instruments to recover from a loss of situational awareness.
    It only needs the attitude indicator and the speed gauge to retreat back to controlled flight (unless the loss of control is almost unrecoverable like in a flat-spin).

    • @TexasVernon
      @TexasVernon 7 днів тому

      I am not a pilot and I also don't understand what causes this. To the uninitiated such as myself it does seem that with an attitude indicator, altimeter and compass it is hard to understand why a pilot would ignore those tools. I can easily understand how looking out the window could be disorienting.

    • @heinzriemann3213
      @heinzriemann3213 7 днів тому +1

      @TexasVernon the worst case of that is France Air 447.
      It seems like a case where knowing less would actually increase the chance of recovery.

    • @jiyushugi1085
      @jiyushugi1085 7 днів тому +1

      Yep, it's often much safer to only have a few simple instruments.

    • @kCI251
      @kCI251 7 днів тому +1

      Vertigo and fixation on one instrument or maybe trying to maintain visual contact with the ground may have cause disorientation. Partial IMC is like driving in heavy fog.

    • @heinzriemann3213
      @heinzriemann3213 6 днів тому

      @@kCI251 oh yeah, I can totally see that.

  • @Whyusemyname
    @Whyusemyname 5 днів тому +2

    Once again being a “Doctor with a Private Pilots License” just barely edges out “Chicago Drill Rapper” to remain the #1 most dangerous profession in the US. These two perennial favorites were followed closely by newcomer “Predatory Health Insurance Company CEO” which shot all the way to #3 on this year’s list.

  • @M1903a4
    @M1903a4 2 дні тому

    I retired myself from flying just before the FAA started to decommission a lot of VORs and make it an RNAV world so I have a couple of questions for experienced Garmin users:
    - How easy is it to program waypoints etc. in turbulence?
    - Will the autopilot disconnect if the a/c is getting bounced around too much?
    ATC may have put him on 23 because of the wind coming from the south. The crosswind component would be identical but it would have given him a headwind instead of downwind.
    As it happens, my first coast-to-coast flight in my favorite Mooney was from Dulles in Virginia to Montgomery. That was back in the '70s before CA cleaned up the smog. I remember it was choppy coming over the mountains and the area to the west was like a bowl of soup. Clear skies above the mountain tops, murky below. My logbook says it was ILS to 28.

  • @dermick
    @dermick 6 днів тому

    These are excellent videos, please keep up the great work - Christmas/New Year's donation incoming!

  • @thebadgerpilot
    @thebadgerpilot 6 днів тому +2

    I didn't see it mentioned, but any reason he couldn't do the straight in ILS to 28R? I imagine a plane like that could handle a fairly negligible tail wind (only a knot or two tailwind component). Just food for thought in the future that a small tailwind might end up being the safest option compared to circling. I'm guessing some sort of LOA was in effect that prevented an approach straight into 23.

    • @21695Chris
      @21695Chris 2 дні тому

      Runway 23 was the runway in use. He certainly could have requested runway 28R, but ATC can't read his mind.
      There are no instrument approaches to any runway other than 28R at KMYF. So a straight-in was not possible.

  • @craig7350
    @craig7350 7 днів тому +4

    If the weather is good enough that you're going to break out and then accomplish some kind of flying circus circling approach, its good enough to fly an RNAV to that runway instead

  • @drmoleno
    @drmoleno 10 днів тому +111

    I wonder if this was a medical issue, potentially a stroke. With his specific avionics suite heading changes and altitude changes are very easy to manage. Someone with his experience I find it hard to believe this was turbulence/disorientation

    • @jmax8692
      @jmax8692 7 днів тому +34

      You ever fly IMC? “With his experience” is such an ignorant thing to say as a crash investigation evaluation… many more experienced pilots have killed themselves and their passengers for far less…

    • @daveg-Vancouver_Island
      @daveg-Vancouver_Island 7 днів тому +74

      @@jmax8692he sounded like he was getting worse n worse as time went on though! And that was a rude response just for someone saying their opinion!

    • @joex24b
      @joex24b 7 днів тому +34

      @@daveg-Vancouver_Island thank you about that rude response. Why do people treat each other like this?

    • @joex24b
      @joex24b 7 днів тому +7

      @@jmax8692 You sound perfect.

    • @sdb3039
      @sdb3039 7 днів тому +13

      @@daveg-Vancouver_Island I agree, that was rude, very rude.

  • @427SuperSnake1
    @427SuperSnake1 7 днів тому +3

    My mom lives just behind the hill on the initial crash video. So many accidents are happening in and around Gillespie. Including the medical Learjet that recently crashed while on approach to Gillespie

    • @j700jam4
      @j700jam4 7 днів тому

      This is Montgomery field

    • @427SuperSnake1
      @427SuperSnake1 7 днів тому +3

      @ No his destination was Montgomery, he crashed in Gillespie air space 1 mile North of the Gillespie field.. Hence why I said in and around Gillespie

    • @Whyusemyname
      @Whyusemyname 5 днів тому +1

      @@j700jam4 0:08 says otherwise.

  • @Jack-xy2pz
    @Jack-xy2pz 7 днів тому +2

    How much rest before a flight especially into marginal landing conditions is important .

  • @lead4you
    @lead4you 7 днів тому +15

    poor ups driver just trying to get packages delivered and get home and out of no where a freaking airplane instantly killed em so sad!

    • @NateFanning
      @NateFanning 7 днів тому +4

      Very sad. Statistically more likely to die on the drive home from work :/

  • @vdeville
    @vdeville 13 днів тому +4

    Good stuff

  • @ceebee2
    @ceebee2 2 дні тому

    The fact that the vast majority of civil aviation aircraft accident case studies can be boiled down to some form of disorientation due to IMC, whether rated for it or not, is very telling of just how dangerous clouds can be and how crucial proper and thorough instrument training is.

    • @AC-te9dr
      @AC-te9dr 2 дні тому

      Driving in dense fog can be equally dangerous too

  • @mwp1088
    @mwp1088 6 днів тому +1

    Man, all it would have taken was using the autopilot. The best tool you have in challenging imc conditions!!

    • @seanur2414
      @seanur2414 5 днів тому

      Need to be proficient without it. A solo pilot in IMC in a twin still needs to be able to fly the airplane. Autopilot over-reliance can also kill.

  • @azcharlie2009
    @azcharlie2009 6 днів тому +3

    I wonder if the autopilot kept shutting down due to turbulence?? Hand flying an ILS in severe trurbulence cacan be over wellmiing Sometig wierd is happening I think youtube is Fing with me.

  • @Imhotterthenyou11
    @Imhotterthenyou11 6 днів тому +1

    Babe wake up, new air safety institute analysis just dropped

  • @NorthSeaWisdom
    @NorthSeaWisdom 3 дні тому

    As a UPS driver covering an area near a major airport, this story spooked me a bit. Gutted for that driver

  • @HootisGarage
    @HootisGarage 6 днів тому +1

    AP disconnect and a heavy work load.

  • @sdbuckerflight5443
    @sdbuckerflight5443 6 днів тому

    I'm based at KSEE (near the crash site) and live under the KMYF 28R ILS approach. I was home that day and saw the smoke plume from the house. The weather that day was extremely rare for this area. The winds were very strong for the area and from an unusual direction with very unusual cloud layers. The 23 circle to land is also a very rare approach to use at KMYF. I was based at KMYF for more than 10 years and landed on 23 once. I suspect that the unusual conditions and approach disoriented a pilot accustomed to flying the autopilot straight into 28R.

  • @megadavis5377
    @megadavis5377 7 днів тому +2

    When in times of increasing and overwhelming stress, one must fall back on experience and training to keep his cool and maintain safe flight. If your training was years ago and your recent experience is minimal or even nonexistent, then you’d better be able to find that ‘type B’ personality within you very quickly before you lose all the stuffing in your rag doll.

  • @caseyjones7404
    @caseyjones7404 6 днів тому +1

    how do you not know your that far off when you have 3 displays in your aircraft.... I know guys flying approaches in 35 lear jets that would die for that much awareness

  • @rudybriskar5267
    @rudybriskar5267 6 днів тому

    What is MSL? New subscriber from Wrangell, Alaska. 13:03

    • @GoToPhx
      @GoToPhx 6 днів тому +2

      Above Ground Level, or AGL, describes the literal height above the ground over which you’re flying.
      Mean Sea Level, or MSL, is your true altitude or elevation. It’s the average height above standard sea level where the atmospheric pressure is measured in order to calibrate altitude

    • @JustinJackson11
      @JustinJackson11 3 дні тому

      It's the altitude we see on our altimeter that we use as our reference when flying. It's also the altitude we'll report to ATC.

  • @RonGlasgow-s7l
    @RonGlasgow-s7l 7 днів тому +2

    By his voice transmissions, it seem that he was confused, disoriented, behind the airplane, and sounded nervous...like Hoover would say...the holes of the swiss cheese lined up.RIP....not big on simulators..need actual instruction in actual conditions.

  • @DrBrianKeating
    @DrBrianKeating 4 дні тому

    😢

  • @jamesretta5690
    @jamesretta5690 7 днів тому +3

    The pilot did not report debilitating turbulence.

  • @jerrymarshall2095
    @jerrymarshall2095 7 днів тому +2

    He kept descending,wouldnt he check his gauges?ATC is tracking u.

  • @mnztr1
    @mnztr1 7 днів тому +3

    Many Russian planes have a "neutral" button on their autopilot if the pilot feels he may be disoriented. why is this not a fixture on western planes? Seems like a good idea.

    • @douglasphillips1203
      @douglasphillips1203 7 днів тому +7

      They have them on autopilots here too. The PIC just failed to use it.

    • @DownTheRabbit-Hole
      @DownTheRabbit-Hole 7 днів тому

      @@douglasphillips1203 AP's will not engage in unusual attitudes.

  • @eski152
    @eski152 2 дні тому

    when did the rules change to allow circle to land off a precision approach?

  • @TheAirplaneDriver
    @TheAirplaneDriver 3 дні тому

    Single pilot IFR in a complex twin is about as tough as it gets. The task load is very high during approach and landing phases of flight, and one unexpected issue….a failed instrument or a switch being in the wrong place, can quickly snowball to the point where the pilot becomes over saturated and falls behind the curve. We’ve all pushed against that envelope and it is not a fun place to be.

  • @sectorcodec
    @sectorcodec 6 днів тому +1

    Very easy to get behind the airplane in a light twin

  • @fishbone470
    @fishbone470 6 днів тому

    Great video.. love the technical details... sad story.. With all these weather based crashes.. would it make sense to make all flights instrument based? seems like a lack of experience causes so many crashes.. esp when weather comes out of nowhere.. Just a thought

  • @NebuChadNezzarKBDN
    @NebuChadNezzarKBDN 7 днів тому +2

    Spatial disorientation. So common.

  • @mr.hughes5808
    @mr.hughes5808 5 днів тому

    An absolute tragedy…

  • @davidbaldwin1591
    @davidbaldwin1591 7 днів тому +1

    Does the pilot sound stressed, on the first transmission mentioned here?

  • @aydinl5757
    @aydinl5757 4 дні тому +1

    He was not qualified to fly a powerful airplane. This is the end result.

  • @steveo1kinevo
    @steveo1kinevo 6 днів тому

    Looked like he just started going off to the right to find RWY 23 not following proper circle to land procedures.

  • @zeWuzard
    @zeWuzard 7 днів тому +1

    Strange they lost situation awarness but it was extremely slow.
    Like it took them time and they seemed to correct it but then go right back to losing situational awareness.

  • @scottmoseley5122
    @scottmoseley5122 7 днів тому +2

    I am still thinking there was some sort of medical situation happening. He just seemed kind of out of it as he started drifitng off course and not communicating or responding clearly. Perhaps a medical even attibuted to his disorientation.

    • @tyrotrainer765
      @tyrotrainer765 6 днів тому +1

      Mmmmmm one could wonder if there is a trend in odd air incidents, post 2021, for reasons we are not allowed to discuss openly? Perhaps some pilots are having these incidents subsequent to some sort of needle-trauma to the upper arm? Just wonderin'.........

    • @scottmoseley5122
      @scottmoseley5122 6 днів тому +1

      @@tyrotrainer765 Husssssshhhh UA-cam brother is watching.

  • @CathyKitson
    @CathyKitson 2 дні тому

    The thing I noticed was that the pilot did not repeat the instructions exactly to the ATC, a thing I thought they were supposed to do.
    Does anyone know what getting "behind the aircraft" means? Or MSL?

    • @AC-te9dr
      @AC-te9dr 2 дні тому

      It means that the Pilot is behind his duties like doing whatever atc is instructing the pilot to speed. Just not keeping up with the responsibilities at the moment

    • @CathyKitson
      @CathyKitson 12 годин тому

      @@AC-te9dr Oh I see. Many thanks.

  • @slimjim3280
    @slimjim3280 3 дні тому

    any idea how long the pilot had been awake and working before this flight?

  • @zenvairpilot
    @zenvairpilot 2 дні тому

    Locally, we have debated if this pilot had a medical episode at some point in this flight. I knew the pilot and him slurring speech as you hear on the ATC recording was not typical of him at all. It was a sad day when this happened for all of us that knew him.

  • @playgroundchooser
    @playgroundchooser 7 днів тому +1

    Looks like he went to... Shake Hands with Danger. 🎸

  • @freedomfalcon
    @freedomfalcon 5 днів тому +2

    When my friends and I first heard about this, we all suspected medical event. Especially with no attempt to recover after breaking out of the clouds. Remember what was happening that year. They had every incentive to sweep this under the rug as "spatial disorientation" and nothing medical.

  • @mrluckyuncle
    @mrluckyuncle 7 днів тому +1

    I wonder - when this disorientation happens - are pilots still looking at their instruments but nevertheless move or don’t move controls according to their physical sensations? Or are they not looking at their controls at all? I know there are scientific studies showing how easily we can fail to perceive things that are right in front of us….

    • @jiyushugi1085
      @jiyushugi1085 7 днів тому +2

      It is usually caused when the pilot fixates on one instrument only, or when the pilot starts pushing buttons in an effort to make the plane do what he/she wants it to do instead of simply hand flying. But if the pilot doesn't have hand flying skills or is too scared to hand fly in IMC he/she often ends up on the evening news.
      Airplanes are like motorcycles. Almost anyone can learn how to operate one but most people shouldn't,.

  • @nicholasbutler153
    @nicholasbutler153 7 днів тому

    Is this the first time where ASI has done an Early Analysis and an Accident Case Study of the same accident? As soon as I saw the date and the description I knew what it was, before even starting to watch the video.

  • @Dane3804
    @Dane3804 7 днів тому +4

    He was a cardiology specialist Dr. Sugata Das. Wouldnt be the first time a Dr. Let themselves get in a bad spot due to getthereitis.

  • @jimholloman4457
    @jimholloman4457 7 днів тому +1

    Please turn down the volume level of the loud music at the beginning.

  • @TheVeganarchism
    @TheVeganarchism 6 днів тому +11

    “Coming to rest in the backyard” is an odd phrase to use in reference to a fireball.

    • @Annii_Oakley_
      @Annii_Oakley_ 6 днів тому +3

      When it stopped moving, it was completely at rest. Along with two humans. Most likely in an attempt not to sensationalize the horror of it all 🫤

  • @Tbird91P
    @Tbird91P 12 годин тому

    Given his familiarity with the route and that he had a first-rate autopilot, I’m surprised that he didn’t turn to it as he struggled to maintain heading and altitude. Makes me think something physiological might be going on.

  • @dcviper985
    @dcviper985 6 днів тому

    Is this the Flysimware Cessna 414AW? Great airplane for MSFS

  • @diegoblancogiusti2389
    @diegoblancogiusti2389 7 днів тому +1

    Just even how he responds to ATC commands is so poor and unprofessional. I wonder how and where these people do their training

  • @bp30656
    @bp30656 7 днів тому +2

    Elmer Fudd was in the air

  • @CapFreddy
    @CapFreddy 7 днів тому +1

    Spatial disorientation can and eventually do occur to everyone flying hard IMC. Training is the thing that reminds us to focus on our attitude indicator. But, mix a single pilot, with relative new avionics, moderate turbulence, some in and out of clouds, vectors for a circle to land approach in a mountainous area and maybe that was too much for the pilot. He clearly was not paying attention to course and altitude and he was overwhelmed by the work load. Let us learn from others.

  • @chrislohr8459
    @chrislohr8459 2 дні тому

    Have you guys prepared a video on a GA pilot getting killed after a midair with a drone? I fly my Mooney to NJ frame NC regularly and I have heard nothing from AOPA about drones in NJ. What is going on?

  • @gawebm
    @gawebm 7 днів тому

    Wow, great airplane. The weather reports while concerning, are not so bad you might not try the short flight.

  • @NeonsStyleHD
    @NeonsStyleHD 7 днів тому

    At 6 mins, It looks like he's setup a procedure for 23 and has forgotten about his clearance to 28R.

  • @davidbrattain1446
    @davidbrattain1446 7 днів тому +5

    I experienced spatial disorientation once in my flying. Thankfully I had a flight instructor on board at the time who pointed it out to me. I would have utilized the autopilot with altitude and ILS coupling in this instance. The instruments do not lie.

  • @OleJoe
    @OleJoe 5 днів тому

    It sounded to me that the pilot wasn't following the ATC's instructions when he was clearly indicating he was. This might indicate that he was becoming disoriented and not realizing it.

  • @j700jam4
    @j700jam4 7 днів тому +2

    I think he was unfamiliar with the circle to land procedure. If you add power to an aeroplane it pushes your head back and upwards and more importantly it does the same to the fluid in your ear canals giving you the impression that you are climbing, this why he kept descending when the atc told him to climb.