You can use a bench power supply to charge them to 2,5V slowly with little Amperage like 100mA. If the cells take a charge without getting hot they mostly can be salvaged. Then you can charge them up fully with our Litokala or similar. I normally use the TP4056 charger ic cause it handles the cells quite softly below 2,5V - they will charge at nearly all voltage but slowly up to 2,5V. And: i would put the "shame box" somewhere outside or in some fireproof box/cabin. When a cell has high self discharge it has probably dendrites growing through the separator - can be dangerous in some rare cases.
i have a serious question to ask iv bought a second hand powerpack 400 repaired the battery but the bms is shot, i am struggling to find one unless you can point me in the right direction so here goes, can i piggy back the battery i repaired onto the working 400 battery its not a problem with the case i can 3d print something that will bolt to the original 400 battery and the new 400 battery pack i built will fit in that,m is this feesable, also i have been told that the bms in these batteries has to be reprogrammed when u replace the battery, as far as i can see there is no way the bms can tell you what make size and amps its got connected to it unless its is really a far more intelligent bms than what i though, the reason for piggy backing the battery is for the amps not the voltage to get a longer ride out of the bike without using a second battery can you tell me if this is possible or not, mr battery man
I have one of these. I sprayed it with a garden hose to clean off mud, while it was on the bike and the battery indicator and button stopped working. I think it still turns on via the head unit, but I'm a bit afraid to use it now. Do you think it is worth the effort to open it up and check the connectors for corrosion? Annoying that these are supposed to be water proof but a hose damaged it.
Why do you use these external cell holders for charging the cell? Is it to prevent the liquid to damage the charger? I had this twice and the corroded the contacts of the switch button...;)
Hello, I have a 500wh frame battery, it operates absolutely fine and works properly while on the bike. However when off the bike and off charge - If you leave it for weeks and weeks it drains, due to the led showing the charge state flashed every few seconds. Do you have any idea what might be the problem??? Thanks
Congratulations for the video, very instructive and it has helped me, I have a query: to connect with the Bosh connector of 3-wire battery (positive, negative, the other) as it would connect to a non-bosch ebike motor that only has 2 wires current (positive and negative). I don't have much knowledge of electronics.
Yup everything dies... At least sometimes some of them can be put back in action. But yeah a whole battery pack full of this... that is an expensive replacement.
Is there any way of interrogating the BMS? If you could do that, surely then you could adapt another 36v battery to suite, like a Husqvarna lithium powerpack...
hi battery guy, great video! i think original battery is way to expensive and are thinking about converting to a normal 38v li-ion battery.. but the bike dont seem to respond to + to + and - to -. it due to the the 5 pin connector. do you have a solution for this?
Well i just opened a bosch charger and the 3rd pin used for charging was named 5VDC or something like that so maby connecting it to B1+ och B2+ might be enought to fool the ebike to think its "genuine"
Salvage from another pack with broken cells. The BMS is identical to the one in the carrier version of the packs, which are more common and cheaper. Aim to find a pack with 2 or 4 LEDs lit, those have working BMS's but broken cells. I typically pay only a few euros for a broken pack with a working BMS.
I have a battery with 4 wires. 2 for 36v, but the other two are used for what please can a simple 2 wire battery be suitable with bosch motorization and intuvia display? Thank you for your help
Du scheinst ein Schweizer zu sein. Habe mein ebike 1x bei Regen benutzt. Akku hin keine Garantie mehr. Akku hat nur 500km. Kann man da noch etwas retten, wenn ja hast Du eine Anschrift. LG M.G.
Is it possible to change the 5 pin connector on the battery? My 5 pin connector on the battery is corroded, I have tried to clean it with electric connection cleaner, I have also replaced the pins on the bike, but I do not know where to find the 5 pin connector for the battery.
You can't find it, it is Bosch specific. You can salvage one from an old pack, be careful on how you remove it and use plenty of silicone when re-mounting so that it doesn't accidentally allow water into your battery.
I have a 2017 Powerpack 500 that I want to re-cell but I'm seeing different information on the internet about whether it is possible due to the supposed issue of the BMS 'suicide chip' on the PCB. Can you just disconnect the BMS and reconnect it after re-celling? Or is there some trick? I've seen someone else recell a Bosch battery on UA-cam, but it was the Bosch Classic+, not a Powerpack. He seems to just disconnect the wires, desolder it from the battery pack, recell, and resolder the BMS afterwards. But he doesn't show it connected to the bike and whether there are any errors. On the flip side, none of the people saying the BMS will suicide have any direct knowledge of it happening to themselves or someone they know. However, there are a lot of commenters in the video of the guy rebuilding the Classic+ with dead BMSes.
@@TheSpaceBrosShow yes and no. The answer is that you have to wire the BMS in parallel to a benchtop power supply with the correct voltage (36V, I believe) and amperage (not sure) so the BMS doesn't lose power when you disconnect the leads to the cells. Before I built my own e-bike I didn't know how to do this. All it boils down to is red goes to red and black to black. However, I have not tried it yet.
Thanks for the great video - I recovered some of these packs all in tact - was wondering about the additional input 3 wires (green , yellow and grey) as I have read they are to allow the charging process and should be hooked up to 5v dc - if I hook them to a usb charger at 5v which colour is positive and negative and what does the last wire serve? I would be hooking the red and black to a standard 2amp 42v charger (+and-)or something I can buy on aliexpress that does lion batteries. Is this idea something that would work? or are those 3 wires something tricky that is controlled inside the bosch branded ebike chargers. Many thanks
could anyone please tell me where can I find a BMS for this battery? I have replaced the cells it has now 36 V but the BMS does not work and I worked in wain. A new BMS would be a great help.
Mine says its overheating when its not , i cant buy new temp sensor nor can i find bms for it , do you know what resistance does the temp sensor sendst to the battery
Temp sensor should stop charging when frozen, and switches on and off very often during charging- so too dangerous to replace ° sensors with anything else.
@@HighestRank It doesn't really switch 'on and off many times during charging', it is there strictly for safety purposes: if the battery should ever overheat then it will tell the controller in the BMS that the pack is unsafe (the famous '1-3-5' error), and if the pack is too cold to be charged it will indicate that as well, but it won't stick. In both cases: allow the pack to get to room temperature, then try again, and if it then still doesn't work reset the BMS (hold the button for longer than 10 seconds). If that still doesn't work you are out of luck and your pack will need repair/refurbishing/replacing. Note that there are *two* sensors, one on the BMS board and one in between the cells.
Absolutely, you'll need to replace the cells with larger ones, I use Samsung 35E (3450 mAh rated capacity) and this works very well. The BMS will take a couple of cycles to adapt to the new reality, and of course the cycle count in the BMS will not be changed from what it was before, it will also still self-report as the wrong model during diagnostics.
Hey! Great video. Thank you :) Just bought an ebike with this battery and it completely died on day 7 of ownership, waiting for the warranty - but just wondering what the common problems are to cause this type of battery death?
If it is that quick I would suspect a wiring issue. There are a lots of very close tolerances in the way the 5 pin connectors are laid out and mounted, I consider this a design flaw. Pretty common for instance for the yellow and gray wire to get shorted inside the bike part of the battery connector. I really don't get why they don't mount the wires the other way around, that would save a lot of failures.
If you bought it "cheap" then the seller used bad cells in the pack, which one can "fail" but still measure fully charged. Watch his other videos where he identifies a group, or cell, and repairs the pack.
You need to push inwards on the cover to open it otherwise the snap ins won't let go, look at the video *just* when he has the pack open to see them exposed (a couple of them are broken here due to the way the pack is opened).
Your pack is probably so far out of balance that the BMS can no longer rebalance it properly. You could try using an external balancer connected to all the strings.
Maybe you did what i did opemimg the battery than replacing it is ridiculously tight and the bms is open faced to wjere i had no power indication realizing i beushed one of the minnute diods of the board and now it wont turn on look at your bms carefully
Powerpack uses CAN messaging to talk to controller and won't turn on unless proper responses received and it is complicated maybe encrypted messaging between battery and controller. If you disconnect 36 volts and some other wires to BMS then microcontroller dies and battery is bricked until Bosch re-activates battery. Bosch put a lot of software into the battery to prevent 3rd party suppliers and non-experienced people from messing with battery and possibly causing a fire.
This version is possible to fix, no need for reactivation. I have also fixed newer versions of their pack. Shimano (2nd version) och Yamaha are the ones using the problem you describe. However i have tons )well maby 200 kg) o bosch batterier i need to test, Do you know how to activate the power to dicharge them. Its should not be that complicated since there are after marked batteries and this tester that can activate a bosch battery batterytester.nl
What if there would have similar protection on normal cars?.. This is stupid, but as long as people will buy these proprietary motors and batteries, this can continue.
This is only true for the oldest Bosch system, not for the Powerpack series, nor for the Powertubes. These will brick when they believe the battery pack is unsafe, and that can only be reset by the dealer. (typically: LEDs 2 and 4 will light).
manufactures try to keep us out repairing stuff like this nice job getting it opened
a big WARNING while taking out the pack, be careful to not damage the indicator button, it is very easy to rip it off.
Guessing someone did it 🤣
You can use a bench power supply to charge them to 2,5V slowly with little Amperage like 100mA. If the cells take a charge without getting hot they mostly can be salvaged. Then you can charge them up fully with our Litokala or similar. I normally use the TP4056 charger ic cause it handles the cells quite softly below 2,5V - they will charge at nearly all voltage but slowly up to 2,5V. And: i would put the "shame box" somewhere outside or in some fireproof box/cabin. When a cell has high self discharge it has probably dendrites growing through the separator - can be dangerous in some rare cases.
Don't do this. Batteries that have gone too far down are dangerous to re-charge.
Best day , can fix ebike bosch classic battery BMS ?
i have a serious question to ask iv bought a second hand powerpack 400 repaired the battery but the bms is shot, i am struggling to find one unless you can point me in the right direction so here goes, can i piggy back the battery i repaired onto the working 400 battery its not a problem with the case i can 3d print something that will bolt to the original 400 battery and the new 400 battery pack i built will fit in that,m is this feesable, also i have been told that the bms in these batteries has to be reprogrammed when u replace the battery, as far as i can see there is no way the bms can tell you what make size and amps its got connected to it unless its is really a far more intelligent bms than what i though, the reason for piggy backing the battery is for the amps not the voltage to get a longer ride out of the bike without using a second battery can you tell me if this is possible or not, mr battery man
Is it ok to put 3500mah elements in powerpack 400?
I have one of these. I sprayed it with a garden hose to clean off mud, while it was on the bike and the battery indicator and button stopped working. I think it still turns on via the head unit, but I'm a bit afraid to use it now. Do you think it is worth the effort to open it up and check the connectors for corrosion? Annoying that these are supposed to be water proof but a hose damaged it.
Why do you use these external cell holders for charging the cell? Is it to prevent the liquid to damage the charger? I had this twice and the corroded the contacts of the switch button...;)
Hello, I have a 500wh frame battery, it operates absolutely fine and works properly while on the bike. However when off the bike and off charge - If you leave it for weeks and weeks it drains, due to the led showing the charge state flashed every few seconds. Do you have any idea what might be the problem??? Thanks
Congratulations for the video, very instructive and it has helped me, I have a query: to connect with the Bosh connector of 3-wire battery (positive, negative, the other) as it would connect to a non-bosch ebike motor that only has 2 wires current (positive and negative). I don't have much knowledge of electronics.
Tack för en bra video
Hello. How good will 5 years old battery be (only ridden 1000km )?
Bosch performance 250.
Is it easy to repair?
Yup everything dies...
At least sometimes some of them can be put back in action. But yeah a whole battery pack full of this... that is an expensive replacement.
Is there any way of interrogating the BMS? If you could do that, surely then you could adapt another 36v battery to suite, like a Husqvarna lithium powerpack...
hi battery guy, great video! i think original battery is way to expensive and are thinking about converting to a normal 38v li-ion battery.. but the bike dont seem to respond to + to + and - to -. it due to the the 5 pin connector. do you have a solution for this?
Well i just opened a bosch charger and the 3rd pin used for charging was named 5VDC or something like that so maby connecting it to B1+ och B2+ might be enought to fool the ebike to think its "genuine"
@@Batteridoktorn No, you'll need to add the Bosch BMS to tell the controller that the battery is ok. Otherwise it will never work.
I have also opened this battery pack. The bms Are broken. I have search for bms a long time,bit vant find any places.
I have the same problem, did you manage to find bms? searched on ebay?
Salvage from another pack with broken cells. The BMS is identical to the one in the carrier version of the packs, which are more common and cheaper. Aim to find a pack with 2 or 4 LEDs lit, those have working BMS's but broken cells. I typically pay only a few euros for a broken pack with a working BMS.
The housing is no longer waterproof because the screwdriver destroyed it
Error code when 2nd and 4th LED come on and off.. What does it mean?
hello, I read that it was something like battery pack error detected and that only Bosch representative could cancel this
so how do you check the bms then
I have a battery with 4 wires. 2 for 36v, but the other two are used for what please
can a simple 2 wire battery be suitable with bosch motorization and intuvia display? Thank you for your help
Separate charge/discharge ports usually. You'll still need to wire up all of the sense wires to the Bosch BMS for things to work.
Water damage? Did you know these bms are resistant to moisture? I had several and even after drowning in water they kept working fine...
They are rated IPx5 absolutely not drown proof
Du scheinst ein Schweizer zu sein. Habe mein ebike 1x bei Regen benutzt. Akku hin keine Garantie mehr. Akku hat nur 500km. Kann man da noch etwas retten, wenn ja hast Du eine Anschrift. LG M.G.
Is it possible to change the 5 pin connector on the battery? My 5 pin connector on the battery is corroded, I have tried to clean it with electric connection cleaner, I have also replaced the pins on the bike, but I do not know where to find the 5 pin connector for the battery.
You can't find it, it is Bosch specific. You can salvage one from an old pack, be careful on how you remove it and use plenty of silicone when re-mounting so that it doesn't accidentally allow water into your battery.
I have a 2017 Powerpack 500 that I want to re-cell but I'm seeing different information on the internet about whether it is possible due to the supposed issue of the BMS 'suicide chip' on the PCB. Can you just disconnect the BMS and reconnect it after re-celling? Or is there some trick? I've seen someone else recell a Bosch battery on UA-cam, but it was the Bosch Classic+, not a Powerpack. He seems to just disconnect the wires, desolder it from the battery pack, recell, and resolder the BMS afterwards. But he doesn't show it connected to the bike and whether there are any errors. On the flip side, none of the people saying the BMS will suicide have any direct knowledge of it happening to themselves or someone they know. However, there are a lot of commenters in the video of the guy rebuilding the Classic+ with dead BMSes.
Did you ever figure this out?
@@TheSpaceBrosShow yes and no. The answer is that you have to wire the BMS in parallel to a benchtop power supply with the correct voltage (36V, I believe) and amperage (not sure) so the BMS doesn't lose power when you disconnect the leads to the cells. Before I built my own e-bike I didn't know how to do this. All it boils down to is red goes to red and black to black. However, I have not tried it yet.
Thanks for the great video - I recovered some of these packs all in tact - was wondering about the additional input 3 wires (green , yellow and grey) as I have read they are to allow the charging process and should be hooked up to 5v dc - if I hook them to a usb charger at 5v which colour is positive and negative and what does the last wire serve? I would be hooking the red and black to a standard 2amp 42v charger (+and-)or something I can buy on aliexpress that does lion batteries. Is this idea something that would work? or are those 3 wires something tricky that is controlled inside the bosch branded ebike chargers. Many thanks
Thank's. battery cars my off charge will that charger ebike amp 5 52.4.25 a there is ,topic Pff
Thank's. battery cars my off charge will that charger ebike amp 5 52.4.25 a there is ,topic Pff
could anyone please tell me where can I find a BMS for this battery? I have replaced the cells it has now 36 V but the BMS does not work and I worked in wain. A new BMS would be a great help.
Sorry but there are no new bms for these packs that i know if since they rely on data communication
Get them from packs with bad cells.
Mine says its overheating when its not , i cant buy new temp sensor nor can i find bms for it , do you know what resistance does the temp sensor sendst to the battery
Temp sensor should stop charging when frozen, and switches on and off very often during charging- so too dangerous to replace ° sensors with anything else.
@@HighestRank It doesn't really switch 'on and off many times during charging', it is there strictly for safety purposes: if the battery should ever overheat then it will tell the controller in the BMS that the pack is unsafe (the famous '1-3-5' error), and if the pack is too cold to be charged it will indicate that as well, but it won't stick. In both cases: allow the pack to get to room temperature, then try again, and if it then still doesn't work reset the BMS (hold the button for longer than 10 seconds). If that still doesn't work you are out of luck and your pack will need repair/refurbishing/replacing. Note that there are *two* sensors, one on the BMS board and one in between the cells.
please i need help i have the same battery with error code 640 ? any help
Alla error codes means the same thing, BUY A NEW BATTERY! Nothing is repairable in the Bosch universe.
is it possible to make powerpack500 from powerpack400 without changing bms?
Yes
Absolutely, you'll need to replace the cells with larger ones, I use Samsung 35E (3450 mAh rated capacity) and this works very well. The BMS will take a couple of cycles to adapt to the new reality, and of course the cycle count in the BMS will not be changed from what it was before, it will also still self-report as the wrong model during diagnostics.
Hi there I want to know where I can buy a new bms fror power pack 300? Any idea ?
No im wanting same thou
@@cameronvaughan8059 Salvage from an old pack with busted cells, see my other comment above.
@@pianojacq where can i f ind a battery to salvage
Trump 2024 baby TRUMP TRUMP TRUMP
Hey! Great video. Thank you :) Just bought an ebike with this battery and it completely died on day 7 of ownership, waiting for the warranty - but just wondering what the common problems are to cause this type of battery death?
If it is that quick I would suspect a wiring issue. There are a lots of very close tolerances in the way the 5 pin connectors are laid out and mounted, I consider this a design flaw. Pretty common for instance for the yellow and gray wire to get shorted inside the bike part of the battery connector. I really don't get why they don't mount the wires the other way around, that would save a lot of failures.
If you bought it "cheap" then the seller used bad cells in the pack, which one can "fail" but still measure fully charged. Watch his other videos where he identifies a group, or cell, and repairs the pack.
what is the cell PN ?
Depending on your pack, for a 500 Wh replacement you'd use Samsung 35E.
Hello Sar
Murks
Im try to open my same battery but i cant
You need to push inwards on the cover to open it otherwise the snap ins won't let go, look at the video *just* when he has the pack open to see them exposed (a couple of them are broken here due to the way the pack is opened).
Hello bro i have same battery in my boush ebike it's stop charging at 4light bar now it's not charging anymore what to do? Please reply
Your pack is probably so far out of balance that the BMS can no longer rebalance it properly. You could try using an external balancer connected to all the strings.
Maybe you did what i did opemimg the battery than replacing it is ridiculously tight and the bms is open faced to wjere i had no power indication realizing i beushed one of the minnute diods of the board and now it wont turn on look at your bms carefully
such a waste of time for 5 or 6€ worth of 18650...
I used to do like you several years ago, I now throw everything away when I have cell under 2v...
Powerpack uses CAN messaging to talk to controller and won't turn on unless proper responses received and it is complicated maybe encrypted messaging between battery and controller. If you disconnect 36 volts and some other wires to BMS then microcontroller dies and battery is bricked until Bosch re-activates battery. Bosch put a lot of software into the battery to prevent 3rd party suppliers and non-experienced people from messing with battery and possibly causing a fire.
This version is possible to fix, no need for reactivation. I have also fixed newer versions of their pack. Shimano (2nd version) och Yamaha are the ones using the problem you describe. However i have tons )well maby 200 kg) o bosch batterier i need to test, Do you know how to activate the power to dicharge them. Its should not be that complicated since there are after marked batteries and this tester that can activate a bosch battery batterytester.nl
@@TheBatteryDoctor Do you know if it is possible to disconect all the wires of the bosch powerpack 500 to rebuild it without the BMS dying?
What if there would have similar protection on normal cars?.. This is stupid, but as long as people will buy these proprietary motors and batteries, this can continue.
This is only true for the oldest Bosch system, not for the Powerpack series, nor for the Powertubes. These will brick when they believe the battery pack is unsafe, and that can only be reset by the dealer. (typically: LEDs 2 and 4 will light).
Ты не доктор, ты killer
Briosco bit Laives
🤣🤣
“This is broken, I can’t fix it” is not a very good repair video… 👎
It says "open it up", not "fixing". These are good resource videos for people who can fix without exact instructions