Thank you for breaking this down in such a concise, direct way and sharing this information. I'm sorry that it is 2022, and you still have to explain this. But I appreciate that you took the time to and hope more people see it and receive it.
You ate this whole video!! I was looking for an introduction to cultural appropriation for my students that was fundamental without being basic and this was the only one I could find. You were thorough, nuanced and connected history and the present seamlessly. Thank you!!
Elvis was not racist by any stretch of the imagination. B.B. King, Little Richard, Fats Domino, and countless other influential black artists commended Elvis for being a great man and a wonderful friend. Elvis admired Dr. Martin Luther King Jr, and sung “If I Can Dream” based on the words of Dr. King. He said that Fats Domino was the true king of rock and roll, and said that rock and roll had been around long before he came along. Big Mama may have recorded “Hound Dog” before Elvis, but it was the Frankie Bell and the Bellboys version that inspired Elvis to record the song as well (notice how Elvis’s version is much closer to the Bellboys version than Big Mama’s.) it must also be noted that Big Mama didn’t even write the song, it was written by two white men, Lieber and Stroller, who wrote dozens of songs for Elvis once he had gotten famous (including Jailhouse Rock, Don’t, and many more.) many people say Elvis’s dance moves copied black artists, but that claim has also never personally made sense, since Elvis’s style of moving happened by accident one night when he was shaking his left leg during a performance out of nerves. Besides, what popular black artists were moving the way Elvis was moving at the time? I also hear the argument that Elvis stole their music, but it was VERY common practice back in the day to cover songs. You don’t really get that in todays music scene, but back then there would be dozens of covers for every song that became a hit. Elvis was no different, he would record songs he liked. Consider this, even, how many of us would know the names of Big Mama Thornton, Big Boy Crudup, Otis Redding, or Rufus Thomas Jr. without Elvis? Their memory and music has been kept alive through Elvis’s legacy, and he was always keen to cite his influences. When he was younger he would sneak into black churches because he liked the spirit they had there, it’s a wonder he even discovered black music at all because in his time black music was taboo for white kids like him. When he was interviewed on the radio for the first time he was asked to specify his high school so that people listening would know that he was white. I just don’t like the idea that music can only be for one specific race. That’s nonsense to me. That’s like saying Michael Jackson stole from The Beatles, or Sam Cooke stole from Frank Sinatra. Music is art, just like films or paintings, it’s a form of expression. If Elvis’s form of expression was through black culture, it’s because that’s how he grew up, he was raised around that culture, so he wouldn’t really know it any other way. In a way, black culture was a part of his culture. He just loved the music, is all. I’ve also never really met an OLDER black person that’s ever actually had a problem with Elvis, it’s always young white people or young black teenagers. All the older black women that have come in to see the movie (I work at the local cinema) have nothing but positive things to say about him and his legacy. I even met one lady that got to see him live back in the 70s, which made me super jealous😂 I get what you mean when you said that appropriation means not paying homage to the original culture, but Elvis was always apt to say where rock and roll came from. He said it came from a mix of black gospel and r&b COUNTLESS times. Also, rock and roll’s popularity SKYROCKETED once Elvis got popular, so Little Richard, Chuck Berry, Fats Domino, and so many others also got rich off of Elvis in a way, and many of them cited Elvis as a friend and an influence as well. So I don’t think that Elvis is really an example of cultural appropriation. He may be at the surface, but if you know the story and research both the man and his life, you see that he didn’t really appropriate black culture. But I can see why many people would think so, because to prove the assumption wrong you really have to get into the details. Besides, Elvis recorded HUNDREDS of non-black songs by non-black artists, so it’s not like his discography is filled only with appropriation even if it was the case. Elvis was a fan, and an avid listener of black music, and looked up to people he called his idols. He once said himself “if I had one goal in life, it was to be as good as Arthur Crudup”. He inspired so many black artists, Barry White turned his life around and perused music just because he heard Elvis’s “It’s Now Or Never” on the radio while in prison. I do agree that pure cultural appropriation is a problem, but Elvis always cited his influences and complimented the black culture. He didn’t sweep it under the rug like cultural appropriators do. He owned it and added his own spins to it, unlike the jazz artists of the 20s and 30s that blatantly ripped off black artists with not a mention of their influences. I get the point of the video, and I thank you for bringing awareness to the racial issues that persist in popular culture, but I don’t think Elvis falls under that category. I think it’s important to note that when Elvis recorded a song WRITTEN by a black artist, the artist would receive royalties for Elvis’s recording, in the case of Big Mama, she didn’t write Hound Dog, she only recorded it, just like The Bellboys, so she didn’t make money off of Elvis’s version any more than the Bellboys did. Otis Redding, a black artist who wrote songs recorded by Elvis, made money off of Elvis’s versions. I think a few people get confused there so I wanted to clear that up. Besides that I agree with the video. Racism is a huge issue everywhere, especially in recent years, but I don’t think taking it out on dead non-racist people is the answer. The answer instead would be to expose the actual racists for their unethical behavior, and to educate the young about how everyone deserves equal respect, regardless of race, religion, sexual orientation, gender, or disability. (Give Elvis’s “If I Can Dream” a listen if you haven’t already, I’m sure Dr. King would approve of the message, since it was based on his iconic speech😁)
@@sovietelmo3000 I wouldn’t want to get annoying about it. It’s just the facts. I agree with her overall message but there’s no need to keep spreading the lies about Elvis Presley and his legacy. It’s just odd to me that Elvis was a champion for black culture and yet they turn it around as if he was some evil racist despite being really supportive of black artists.
Great feature, Ms. Tucker! You are a queen of recognizing distinctions. A relative called me in 1977 and asked me if I was upset Elvis had died. I thought “About as upset as I’d be if any stranger had died.” Yay, you publicized Encyclopedia Brittanica. I’m not getting rid of my parents’ encyclopedias on the bookshelf. I agree with all your points about appropriation vs. appreciation and I was further enlightened in some ways, too. The dialogue and image snippets you put together for this, and their timings, are brilliant, too.
@@DaraStarrTucker You're welcome. It seems you or youtube removed the reply comment I posted below about the controversial Eric Clapton quote. I am sorry if there was something wrong with my posting it. I thought it would be good to clarify what noodlehoppa wrote. I put dashes through parts of some naughty words E.C. was quoted elsewhere as saying. I don't know if the problem was length or content or what. You seemed to think Eric was basically OK and I pointed out at the start he had apologized repeatedly and blamed it on his addictions. I apologize again. If you deleted it, perhaps you could clarify what was wrong about it so I'll know for the future.
@@DaraStarrTucker Thank very much for your feedback. There were a couple of repeated insults to foreigners in that old Eric Clapton in concert quote I had never heard of before. Even though I used dashes for parts of them and for the f word, those, length or the fact I had done a cut and paste from a website with different size font I suppose could have triggered some kind of youtube removal (avoiding the word "censorship" to not sound insulting or possibly over presumptuous) bot. I recently learned there is a twelve letter "m" word that will make youtube apparently always remove a comment if it's included, and it doesn't have an "f" in it. Others used it somewhere with an asterisk replacing one letter and their comments stayed. Actually awhile ago I seem to recall a comment or two of mine disappeared without content that could be controversial but there was a cut and paste in it. Maybe youtube adjusts its bots or changes policies form time to time but doesn't explain it all to users. Maybe in this case a Clapton fan on staff removed that comment manually due to not liking how I had dredged up that old comment in the name of research and of explanation.
Spot on. I wonder what you think about this (you're commentary is so sharp it helps me clarify my own ideas): it always struck me that the great BRITISH rock stars of the 60s and 70s did acknowledge their debt to Black musicians, especially blues musicians, and nearly all of them took steps to promote the late careers of the great Black blues singers. Howlin' Wolf, Chuck Berry, and others were acknowledged and supported by Keith Richards, Eric Clapton, and others. And, some of those British updates of Black American blues were brilliant in their own way--different, not better, but still worthy of appreciation. All this seems to me really different from the Elvis phenomenon. But maybe I'm not seeing something. I genuinely believe at this point that if that's the case, Dara, you can help figure it out. Got anything?
Beautifully said! I wish I could have intelligently and with such articulation brought this point further when trying to make people more aware. But I am so glad I heard you do it so well. Thank you for taking the time to explain it to us and I hope a lot more people will see this and have a new understanding of what's really, really been going for centuries. Bless you. ❣
Many radio stations weren’t allowed to play black music so the recording companies came up with this idea to have white groups record their versions for white audiences. Mercury records did both recordings . Little Darling was recorded by the Diamonds. The original was by the Gladiolas , Maurice Williams later of STAY fame. That album Stay by The Zodiacs is worth its weight in gold now. $$$! On PBS they had a rock and roll revival that had David Somerville with the Diamonds bring Maurice Williams to the stage to do Little Darling. The generations past and present cheered him on! That was so cool! A lot of those small r&b labels that weren’t million sellers are worth BIG money some are worth $100s and even $1,000s and some white collectors made some impressive bids ! For your precious love by The Impressions on Vee Jay records is one of the most collectibles in rarity and worth. Vee Jay records was a black owned company in Chicago that had The Beatles and the Four Seasons as recording artists at the same time! That was before The Beatles came to the US!!!! No one wanted this first album by the Beatles. After they came to the US , Capitol records went to court to stop further sales for Vee Jay . They were allowed for 1964 to sell their Beatles album! I know they made a nice fortune for that year! The name Vee Jay affectionately named as husband and wife . This is a real story that still talked about among Beatles fans , collectors of all genres . This was a great triumph for a small R&B label especially for the times! This was a black enterprise to be celebrated in this special month. Pass it on!!!
I have a foot note to the VeeJay story about how the business went under. It was a small company with more artists to tend to. To have more industries to handle the influx of all those artists would have been a huge amount of investment capita to stay afloat. A small family run business for as many years as it went , was a great effort and legacy to be remembered in music history!
What I learned about " Hound Dog" by Mama Thornton and Elvis is that , Jerry Leiber, and Mike Stoller wrote it. So they made two versions and got paid either way.
I'm not American, I'm Australian. It's always struck me that the American culture that we love and emulate in other parts of the world music, fashion etc is eseentially black American while black Americans don't enjoy the status, recognition etc that should go with that. My country has alot of racism towards indigenous Australians and is still in denial about what happened when Europeans came here. So I'm not saying we are any better. It's just that American culture is so influential. We all grew up watching American TV and listening to American music and following American fashions. So you start to think about what makes American stuff so cool. And its black 'cool'. Even the word cool is part of that. I never thought about young white people looking for something of more substance than consumerism. Thanks your videos are amazing.
Thanks for recognizing this. Many Americans are spoonfed lies, or are coddled into believing they're more exceptional than they are. If you try to tell them the truth, they claim you're victimizing them. They'd rather not know the truth for the most part. Sometimes it takes an outsider to acknowledge that.
B.B. King once said of Elvis Presley and racism: “Let me tell you the definitive truth about Elvis Presley and racism', The King of the Blues, B.B. King said in 2010. 'With Elvis, there was not a single drop of racism in that man. And when I say that, believe me I should know.” Elvis was just a fortunate man who was at the right place and right time in history with the talent to capitalize on the opportunities before him. He also combined multiple genres of music including the Stamps Quartet, Frank Sinatra, Eddy Arnold and Dean Martin who am were “white” with influences such as Howlin Wolf, Fats Domino and Arthur Crudup who were “black.” Now none of these artists black or white achieved Elvis’s apogee of fame because they just _were not Elvis._ Why you and other faux historians/sociologists of music feel compelled to inject race into the discussion as if Elvis was somehow taking dollar bills out of “black” people’s pockets just for paying homage to their styles is flabbergasting. Cultural appropriation is *not a thing* because Liberals only ever want to discuss it when it’s about “white” people incorporating elements of other cultures. You may claim that majority cultures taking cultural elements from minority cultures is just part and parcel of the definition of “cultural appropriation,” but then that’s just circular logic that benefits your agenda. There is no net harm nor net benefit conferred to one racial group or another just because one man whose skin color is lighter and more common got rich from using music made by darker skinned people (in addition to other colors of people). You operate from a presupposition of racism and the concept that white people dominate the culture categorically, yet Asian Americans are actually the most successful racial class in America. Where is the white supremacy when Asians make the most money, have the best educational performance, and live in the most intact 2-parent communities? So before you can even make the claim of “cultural appropriation by whites” you have the all-important task of justifying why your definition does not implode on itself under the most minute scrutiny.
It’s hilarious how people will write these diatribes against the concept of cultural appropriation accusing me of everything under the Sun as though this isn’t an established phenomenon with an actual dictionary definition. Just because it doesn’t fit YOUR AGENDA doesn’t make it invalid. Step back and study & don’t be so quick to give these reflex responses because it upsets your concept of the world.
@@DaraStarrTucker It’s hilarious how people don’t critically read the things that they are replying to in the comments section. Nothing in my comment gives the impression of a reflexive “firing from the hip” style of response. I also posted another reply elsewhere which cites the book “Black Rednecks and White Liberals” which dismantles the cultural appropriation argument-“black culture” came from Irish-Scot immigrants. And it was always seen as an inferior culture even when the Irish-Scots did it. Nowadays the culture has metastasized into one, traditionally called “ghetto,” that values poor health, oversexualized media and single parent homes which have terrible outcomes for children. The fact that other races are now imitating this culture is a net negative for everyone so your concerns about Bhad Bhabie are misplaced. You should be asking how we can stop Black Americans from acting that way, not just white ones or any other race. For example, speaking African American Vernacular English benefits who now..? Last I checked the Chinese and Indians haven’t been learning AAVE in order to get significantly wealthier over the last decade so why aren’t we discouraging blacks from speaking that way too when it’s a suboptimal language globally? You have a lot of unanswered questions ma’am.
@@krisjones4051 There are many people all over the world who are speaking and try to learn to speak AAV and call themselves “cool” and make money, and significant money off of the use of the dialect thru music, fashion, dance, etc. Just look at UA-cam and walk into a store to find American black culture and language being used at the highest of levels. Where do you think the term, “back in the day” comes from? Where do you think using opposite words to express how wonderful things comes from? Though there was cultural interplay between scots-Irish and blacks, to imply that Black People from Africa came with no culture or the only culture they had came from this European source is ridiculous as all humans have culture. Where do you think the music that is most popular in America and now the world comes from? A mix of multiple cultures coming together. However, black music was the one that created the most energy and excitement by the main populace. Eastern European Jewish men were the songwriters of the American songbook and one of those spent significant time studying the music of black people: George Gershwin. Regardless of you bringing in negative issues that are present in all ethnic groups, black culture and language is an important part of the culture of America. Appropriation is a way to explain some of the injustices that occurred to black artists which they will tell you about themselves if you listen to interviews and read biographies. Since it seems you’ve read Thomas Sowell, perhaps there are others you can look at to get a different perspective. Having conversations about appropriation doesn’t mean that we can’t have situations where cultural interplay can’t occur. The Beatles and John Coltrane both added aspects of Indian music to their music. Brazilian bossa nova and Cuban salsa music impacted American tastes(both of those musics are black American (south and carribean) music as well). We can talk about it all so we can all make music and be appreciated for our contributions together. But you have to know and understand the initial issues first before you can move on.
@@AlisonCrockett AAVE is not profitable for the _vast_ majority of individuals, blacks or white, and it is often linked to the worst impulses, cultural totems, and pathologies of black American culture/ghetto culture. You’re literally isolating a fractional percentile of individuals that are either involved in music business, entertainment, or pop culture. Promoting a vapid culture of social media influencers that have HipHop cultural affects is not how any population of people has ever moved forward as a group. I hate to say, but most men and women of all races have to work a 9-5, making between $30-50k/yr and will never progress beyond that average socioeconomic strata. Quite often it is because of poor education which limits income mobility from raises and promotions; things which AAVE would hinder, not enable. I work in the business world and have never met a VP of mergers and acquisitions or a director of operations or a cardiothoracic surgeon who spoke AAVE or anything less than proper English with only a slightly dialect. And as I alluded to many of these individuals are of Asian extraction with a generous percentage of the black professionals being Afro-Caribbean or West Africans-and they dont speak AAVE at the office. Worrying about who borrowed which guitar lick or which syncopated rhythm seems to be a preoccupation of the privileged and bored. In response to your 2nd paragraph, please show me the sentence where I said, either explicitly or implicitly, that Africans brought over *NO* culture from Africa. That sounds like projection because that’s the sort of tripe that Liberals will often claim about White Americans. That they somehow have no culture. I’ve never made that claim; however, it is worth noting that to the extent that African Americans are one of the worst performing ethnic groups in the US and Africa is one of the poorest and least developed continents globally, clearly the culture they exported is inferior to Western culture curated by & large by Europeans. Music may be profitable, but it’s not and never will be the main driver of economic and social success for a country or a group of people. Music doesn’t manufacture cars or build houses or generate nuclear energy or ship exports across the globe. I would gladly trade every lick of jazz or HipHop music for a culture dominated by engineering prowess and medical innovation. Appropriation may be a “method” of explaining the circumstances of American black musicians, but it is a dishonest and low resolution framing of the history of music. Someone getting wealthy because they are white and play “black music” is not done at anyone’s expense and music is not a zero sum game. I don’t own black music any more than Sister Rosetta Thorpe or BB King did. Do you realize most modern instruments were invented by white Americans and Europeans? Music theory in general is a product of the French, the Germans, etc. Should blacks be found guilty of appropriating chord progressions and harmony from them?
Interesting that you used Elvis singing Hound Dog, then jumped to Big Mama Thornton whilst talking about cultural appropriation, as if he stole her song. She didn't write it, Liebmer and Stoller did.
I am fully aware of who wrote it. I have done multiple videos on Elvis and have discussed Lieber and Stoller specifically. This is not about who wrote Hound Dog. It’s about a greater question of appropriation of style, manner and content for financial gain.
@@DaraStarrTucker I am aware that you are aware, which is why it seemed so out of place to use Hound Dog whilst discussing cultural appropriation and Elvis, given that there are many fair accusations that can be levelled at him. You're too intelligent not to know that putting Big Mama Thornton up at that exact moment will lead those less educated on the subject to assume that Elvis stole "her" song.
@@pappy374 Cultural appropriation isn't necessarily or even normally about actual theft of intellectual property -- it's about the "theft" or co-opting of things that cannot be copyrighted, trademarked or sold, as I said in the video. The song was written for her, using a blues chord progression, derived from black American music. If anything, Lieber & Stoller appropriated black culture to write the song in the first place, so it's appropriation of appropriation.
@@DaraStarrTucker following your own definition, (that only a person from a "dominant" "majority" culture -- both words you used in your video -- can be accused of cultural appropriation), then neither Lieber nor Stoller can be accused of cultural appropriation, since they were both Jewish, (neither a majority nor culturally dominant), and especially not for writing black songs for black artists, who then benefited financially. (Elvis, on the other hand...)
@@pappy374 On the contrary, she chose the precise clip where it's absolutely clear that his style of singing is a mirror imitation of hers. I'd never heard of her before as I'm not american, and it was obvious.
I dont always agree with you 100% but I always learn something and have something to think about....some network needs to give you your own tv show. great job.
More people need to watch this, very informative & precise. As an ethnic East Asian/Chinese myself, I do hope that the same phenomenon doesn't happen to our culture.
It already kinda is/has. Just not in music but look at how Japanese styles amd art have been migrating to the US and Chinesse action/Kung fu movies have inspired the modern action genre. However that is what is great about the US. It is a cultural melting pot and everyone is welcome to join and combine.
Question could you also cover how it works in other countries? If we only focus on America and aav i feel it will easily sadly fall through the open space. Also could you go into the difference in appreciation and appropriation under learning things about the different countries and culture fx learning a language or wearing traditional clothes in a respectful manner?
Hello All! I currently am a white hip hop teacher that teaches 5-8 year olds. Most of my students are white, with a couple hispanic students. Do you think what I am doing is cultural appropriation or appreciation? I tell them the historical background about hip hop dance and where is comes from..Show them videos of breakdance crews from the 70's and 80's.They love dancing and learning the movement, but deep down I feel like an imposter and that I am not the correct person to be teaching them about hip hop dance.Should white kids being learning hip hop dance from another white person? Should they be learning from a black person? Should white, asian, and hispanic kids be learning hip hop dance at all? It's part of our American pop culture and now fused with jazz dance, modern, and latin dance. Is it okay that I am teaching hip hop dance as long as I give proper historical context to the movement? Let me know your thoughts. I might stop teaching hip hop dance this year because I keep struggling with this concept and I don't want to be disrespectful to African American culture.
I'm a huge Eric Clapton fan. The blues is the basis of everything he has done and almost every lick he plays has been copied from his heroes: B.B. King, Robert Johnson, Muddy Waters, etc. He has become quite rich doing this. However, he has always tried to put his heroes in the limelight and to get people to listen to the music his black heroes made. In an interview he did in the late 60s, he said the idea was to get white people to listen to the real thing and then he would have to find something else to play. A good chunk of my music collection is due to going backwards from Eric. (Going from Creams version of Crossroads to Robert Johnson s original version doesn't work, btw. Muddy Waters is a crucial.step back). Given his financial success and his efforts to promote the original artists, would you say Eric is appropriation, appreciation, or a blend of both?
I think Eric Clapton is a good example of someone who has at least attempted to contextualize what he’s doing. And that really is key. Because you can’t just do it. You have to talk about it and help people to understand why it is that you are doing what you are doing. The Stones did a fairly good job of this as well. And they also shined a light on Howlin’ Wolf and Muddy Waters. They helped to point the way back to their heroes and they acknowledged the influence. So, while Eric Clapton cannot escape the label of cultural appropriation because he did benefit from black culture, he has done it in a way that expresses his appreciation for them as well.
A lot of the rock artists are British who acknowledged the music’s roots. They had a different relationship with Black American Artists than white Americans. I’m still having to tell white jazz musicians that jazz is a black American artform and not get into an argument.
@@noodlehoppa7212 I've heard the story about that rant dozens of times. I've never heard he was playing I shot the Sheriff when he went on the rant. As there is no recording of the rant, I would have to say that is urban legend (what he was playing, not the rant itself). It was quite a hateful thing. I think after getting sober he regrets the many things he did to hurt people. At least I hope.
I was thinking that as well. I was shocked that they acknowledged his community growing up. I do not think that Elvis appropriated black culture as a kid (He would be way too young for that). I definitely know now that he attended my great grandparents church and summer picnics as a kid. I think that he saw it as a form of liking the music. i feel like the appropriation part came more from his recrord label.
Love your insight .. and with Elvis I think you are spot on he never wanted to harm or steal from anyone. Moving to the 80's plentey of ppl wanted to grab cash from the fun novelty of RAP and many did .. because as Rockabilly early R&B and such was thought to be a flash in the pan
We need to keep a piece of the action.... A hard lesson that can be recooped. We are all influenced by someone, I think Elvis loved music, dance it all period 🙂
Once I became educated about the origins of the music that I adored as a teenager - and that included Led Zep, Aerosmith, The Rolling Stones etc... - and then learning how the source people fared... I stopped enjoying standard rock because I realized my taste was a product of industry manipulation. White people need to understand that US popular music, which is the only really important contribution of US culture to the world.. the only genuine people's music, is 100 percent African American. More to the point, black Americans produced the diverse genres of music that the world has been consuming for 75 years as popular music, and that music evolved as a means for black people to cope with systematic oppression. The failure to speak these truths is unconscionable in this day and age. It goes to show the extent to which cultural appropriation continues by the "music industry", which fortunately is dying. Good riddance. Without meaning to offend, Taylor Swift etc... do not represent, not fairly anyway, US musical legacy.
I've considered myself well spoken and well read but I have struggled with being able to explain the difference between the two but you did a phenomenal job! Thank you for this!
Really good explanation. Like this very much. Though in my opinion Eminem does not belong in here. If i am correct he works with black musicians, acknowledges the origins of his music and pays those around him generously.
Serious Questions. Someone once told me gay/drag culture is just a rip off of AAVE. Do you agree? How do you feel about that and would it be considered appreciation or appropriation?
gen question: does anyone know if things such as dying your hair are considered appropriation as they originated from Egypt, or are they not as they were never a closed practice or something that had a large cultural significance? When you look up the origin, it mentions that they used it to cover up gray hairs. 👍🏻/lh
Dyeing your hair is not a practice that is specific to any particular culture. Appropriation happens when the dominant culture takes on characteristics of a minority culture in a way that is exploitative.
Good, and maybe simplified for brevity, but you left out that all kids imitate AAVE. Asian, latino, south asian, middle eastern. What would you call it when Acquafina or Bruno Mars do it and make money from it? I agree that cultural app (and racism, I would argue) has to do with the local dominant population in general. But I think cultural app involves the monetization of (in this case) Black ppl by any other cultures. Now there are some white, Latino (non Rican/Dominican/Cuban), asian etc. kid who grew up in black areas, so I guess those ones might be natural. But once they start making money, I'm not sure what to think. I agree generally that the whole world in general, and non-Black Americans need to acknowledge the cultural (esoecially musical in this comtext)debt owed to Black America.
I got to say I love your videos on this. The one thing we can both agree on Elvis was not praised by white people when he was doing rock music. Technically white people hated Elvis in the beginning lol. Also lot of the cips you showed. I guarantee most of the white people who talk like that that you showed, probably grew up in the suburbs. You might agree, but I feel like it's different if you grew up in the black community but just happened to be white. Also that slang is not gen z that was around when I was a kid and I'm 40. You got to understand you're a lot younger than me. Things were completely different in the 90s. If you were white and grew up in the black community you were family. Nobody treated each other any different. Nobody acted any different. We were all in the same struggle. We were at the same church every Saturday morning to get groceries. Nobody looked at anyone else and said they had privilege. The cops hated poor white people as much as they hated poor black people. cops were always horrible to poor people. I feel like now people are more divided than almost at any other time. Definitely any other time in modern history. I feel like the wealthy are trying to divide and conquer and they're winning. I saw a video one day that said if poor and middle-class white and black people realize they're all in it together they would be unstoppable.
My biggest issue with Elvis is that I don't like the music he made. He ripped off people like Big Mama Thornton and Sister Rosetta Tharpe, who I love, and who he totally eclipsed. Now it's hard to even find recordings of the people he stole from, but you can go to the big sweaty mansion where big sweaty Elvis died on the toilet. People act like he's the new God, and he didn't do a lot except for rip Black women off and be white and hot to a 1950's audience. I think he was always hard to look at, but beauty standards do change, I suppose. I still wish it was Big Mama Thornton who got international acclaim and undying devotion.
I guess I have a dumb question. I'm a jazz fan. Traditional jazz fan. Coltrane, Miles, the '50s- '60s sound. How many of those artists started off by playing show tunes written by the Gershwins, Cole Porter, Irving Berlin, Harold Arlen, Jerome Kern, Rodgers & Hart among many, many others ? Yet the 'traditional jazz' sound that I like is called 'black music' by some. Some even go as far as accusing white artists (Stan Getz comes to mind) as 'ripping off' black artists. And I get it. Coltrane's version of 'My Favorite Things' is one hell of a lot different than the way Julie Andrews sang it in 'Sound of Music'. It's all about improvising. Of making the tune your own. Kind of like what you did with that Billie Eilish tune. Nicely done too, I might add. Same thing with these white R&B singers like Elvis. Or the Stones. They heard what they liked and ran with it in their own style. Isn't it kind of the same thing ? Let's face it, it's hard to be original these days. Everything has been done before.
To cover an artist’s song is not to appropriate their culture. Ellington wrote “Sophisticated Lady” and it’s been covered by many white artists. Appropriation has to do with co-opting of performance styles and and aesthetics, and of course, outright theft of intellectual property. And don’t forget, there is always a power dynamic at work. It happens when someone from a dominant culture behaves in a way that is predatory. Cultures influence each other. So that basic fact is not what cultural appropriation is really about.
Thank you for your videos! To me, Chuck Berry is The King. Personal opinion. How is someone like Stevie Ray Vaughn seen in terms of cultural appropriation, please?
It is an excellent piece, thank you. Please keep in mind that all cultures, however, practice some form of appropriation and adaptation - not just White - and it would be important to teach such to ensure inclusion of offenders across all borders. And that some cultures after "exporting" the supposed art or style or fashion or lifestyle to another culture, found the latter had more interest of that to their group than the culture of origin. We must stop singling out Whites as offenders of everything, when all races and cultures dabble in the same misdeeds. Japanese are famous for this... as with Chinese. Think of Yoga... it was introduced to the Western world by Indian gurus, but today more people in the State of California alone - not percentage but people - practice yoga as a lifestyle than all the people practicing within the entirety of a billion-plus population of India. PS - sorry, you mentioned dreadlocks within your slides, but dreadlocks have been around for Millenia... and adorned by many races and cultures including Whites. While it might be dominant a hairstyle and cultural attribute to people of African descent, it was never exclusively theirs, and it is not a cultural appropriation if worn by Whites, Arabs, Latinos, or Asian cultures.
@UCSpsqj8-U6n_E7Zm9vc10yg Thank you for your comments. It was very well presented and I respect your point of view. And I took away some new knowledge; others I stick with my own experiences from life abroad and living amongst other cultures. I am not a White American, by the way, I think you are making assumptions that I am. I am one of the cultures, however, who did have dreadlocks in our history... ergo it is not exclusive to African history and is a permitted look for anyone wishing to don the look. I love the music of Big Mamma Thornton!
If you're wondering why I have to turn off comments on anything having to do with race, look no further than this comment section -- filled with reactionary, snide, uninformed, culturally insensitive anti-intellectuals. (Thanks to those of you who choose to listen and learn)
@@GOREDO5 Your questions are ill-informed & antagonistic. No attempt to actually learn or take in information that's uncomfortable for you. Literally everything that's wrong with open comments online. You ruin the exchange of ideas for everyone because no one wants to deal with smart @sses all day.
@@GOREDO5 And this is you thinking you should have carte blanche access to come and troll anyone's comments free from challenge or consequences. You're adding literally nothing. You are the problem -- not me. Go find something else to do.
@@DaraStarrTucker Ms. Tucker, I think the concepts of “agree to disagree” and “see both sides of the story” can help heal the world. I’ve noticed you follow concepts like those repeatedly in your careful evaluations in your videos. Unfortunately it seems many, including commenters that have been on some comments here you removed, have not heard of those concepts or don’t believe they're important. I wish all or each commenter(s) of removed comments on this page had respectfully followed the former if they disagree. Cultural appropriation is a topic not everyone will agree on, but someone like you should not feel obligated to go out of your way to make videos everyone will agree fully on, to try not to offend anyone, which is generally impossible anyway. You'd be risking at least partially misrepresenting your own views anyway if you tried that. You were within your rights to have posted this video I think was really well done. I didn’t see the comments you removed beforehand, but I know you don’t remove everything that expresses a difference of opinion; it’s when they cross a line into some sort of intolerant trolling. You get accused of intolerance or words to that effect, but you were only reacting to the real perpetrator. Removal of anything you want is your right; it’s not like you’re trying to disrupt other people’s social media channels. Keep on keeping on.
@@bobdavis4848 It demonstrates she’s mentally fragile and cannot handle criticism. That’s 100% the only reason why Liberal turn off the comment sections on any UA-cam channel. That is never something that you see Conservatives or Orthodox Christians do. She just cannot handle the smoke and is the one offended. I don’t see anybody right-leaning in the comments that is offended. Do you?
I would love to see how this rule works with food ? Why do so many people eat and Cook Italian food if they are not Italian? Should I be offended? Let me get this straight “ It’s called cultural appropriation for Minorities to feel that way and its called Racism if whites feel that way ? It’s considered racist when white peoplethat way and And
@@DaraStarrTuckerwops had their fair share of discrimination here in the United States. I see exactly what this commenter meant, and obviously you not only missed it, but dismissed it. Whether you realize it or not, you have your own biases; we all do.
So.. by your rationale any and all films, theater plays, poems made and sold in South Africa (for instance) would be considered cultural appropriation? There the majority is of black people and theater plays and poems were invented (at least to my knowledge by Greek society) and film was invented by whites in the US. I'm not mentioning the fact that Spike Lee, Denzel Washington and Morgan Freeman (to name a few) would in my opinion be practicing cultural appropriation, but you claim that this would be assimilation (I would disagree), as they are a minority.
Cultural appropriation is not “my rationale”. It’s actual fact. Take some time to study this. It’s not about segmenting cultures so no one is able to show influences or participate in things created by another culture. I’m not sure why some people feel the need to make these extreme, dismissive remarks. This is an issue of a majority culture using the cultural affects of a minority culture in an exploitative way. That’s not a hard concept to understand, but some can’t wait to dismiss it by conflating the issue with unrelated things. Shouldn’t be baffling that so many wish to obscure this reality. I guess. Par for the course.
Question: I like our Native culture and symbols. I'm considering a tatoo based on a few Lakota designs and art. Not for profit, not for any other reason than I like it and it means something to me, in a spiritual sense. Is that appreciation or appropriation? Better i get your opinion now, you know, before I do it and it's too late. Would really appreciate your thoughts. Great video. Thank you.
I know that Native Americans tend to be extremely sensitive about their culture. Particularly as it relates to the dominant culture’s usage of it. I don’t know what your race or ethnicity is, and I am not Native American, but I would be inclined to think that might be seen as appropriation. But of course, by the strict definition of cultural appropriation, you would not necessarily be receiving any social or financial benefit from it. So could it be called appropriation technically? Probably not. Could it be seen as culturally insensitive? Absolutely. But of course, you would probably do better to ask a few members of the Lakota tribe.
I'm white. You're answer is spot on, and I will investigate more and rethink my idea. Quite likely the mere fact that I'm asking the question means it's appropriation.
I'm from Chile and indigenous peoples(there are 11 peoples along our territory) have gained a lot of protagonism this last few years due to internal conflicts and the reserved seats they had in writing our new constitution. So they've taught us(Chileans) a lot about speech and oppression: first, they're not OUR indigenous peoples, so when talking about them, we should say THE indigenous peoples. Similarly, you wouldn't say OUR Native culture and symbols, you would say "the culture and symbols of Native people." Also, cultural appropriation is tricky in the sense that some members of a minority group may consider it like that, while others don't and think it's cute(especially older generations). And that is only right, why should a Native community have to be of only one mindset? But that is the excuse that many Chileans(white chilean people, mostly right wing) use to excuse their actions: "Well, I have this Indigenous friend that doesn't mind, so it's okay." Well what about those who do mind? I've seen TikToks of an American guy wearing traditional clothing of a minority group asking Gen Z students if they think it's cultural appropriation, and they all say yes. Then he goes and asks Boomers of that minority group what they think, and they are all pretty happy. Well of course they are. Cultural appropriation is a new concept. Also, he's probably showing us the responses that support his thinking. I remember talking to a Mapuche friend during one of the marches during our revolt(2019), and she was mad some white chileans(clearly blonde and blue eyed) where carrying Mapuche flags around. I couldn't really understand her reasoning, and thought on it a lot. Until I realized that I don't have to understand it. Even if she changed her mind about that later on, there always may be someone who takes offence, and that was enough for me to avoid wearing Native symbols on myself. I am learning Mapuzugun(Mapuche language) as that is appreciation. I would advice you to not get this tattoo. On the scale of possibly offending someone, I'd say it's pretty high.
@@DaraStarrTucker hi. i find you very reasonable. but I don't know how can we decide who is part of a culture and who's not. for example i'm central european, pale asf, blue eyes, light hair etc. we know about our great-grandparents, all of them were white and lived in my home country, only have left their homes during the world wars. I recently take a dna test and it showed that i am a big chunk native american. my family and I are stunned some of them taking dna tests as well to find out where it come from. i've got more then a thousand dna matches distant cousins with native american origins in the US. we don't know about anyone in our family who's ever crossed the Atlantic ocean. so now I have documents to prove that I'm from native American origin. am I allowed to be a part of that culture. or is it still appropriation because that's not the culture that I grew up with? thank you for your thoughts on this.
@@DaraStarrTuckeryou’re confusing opinion with truth. Furthermore, you have no idea how racially biased you sound. Racism is definitely a two-way street.
I completely understand that cultural appropriation is a serious issue that affects black Americans but I think people need to be aware that 1) it is a very america-centric discussion and 2) needs to be applied consistently in regards to other cultures. As a German I have been criticised of appropriating black American culture by posting pictures online with 2 long braids, despite the fact that having 2 long braids is also tradition in my southern German culture. There are some things that aren't unique to just black American culture. And regarding the other issue, there are many instances of appropriation of German culture in America. The best example being American Oktoberfests, where people wear literal costumes that look more like maid costumes than Dirndls. I wish people would either consistently criticise all appropriation or avoid criticising on or on behalf of cultures that they have no experience with.
Elvis was dismissed by the press daily for being friends with colour artists and promoting their music, he was the first artist were all races were welcome back in the 50 when that was a real issue, and now he is being condemned?? It is stupid to look at the past with the eyes of the present! History changes everyday!
i have a question, so elvis shouldn't have done music? cause that's the part that me confused. i saw the movie and he grew uo around black culture so that's what he was used to. can you explain that to me pls? I'm really confused
That movie wasn’t completely historically accurate. In my opinion, if you’re going to get rich and famous off a minority culture’s music, regardless of who you grew up around, you should find a way to give back. Shine a light on that culture as much as you can. People weren’t as concerned about those dynamics back then, I realize. But the Beatles & Stones seemed to learn a lot from his mistakes.
@@DaraStarrTuckerI think it was more historically accurate than you think. Have you watched Baz, the Elvis movie director, interview Sam Bell, Elvis’s black childhood friend, here on UA-cam? And Elvis, did, in fact, get into trouble for going to black events after he was a superstar in the 1950s. Do you think he might have gotten any death threats for doing so? He absolutely celebrated the black community during the Jim Crowe era. Baz did extensive research on Elvis AND the era, and while he combined some things, and took creative license on some aspects all biopics do, overall, he did a good job. B.B. King himself stated that he and Elvis were friends. As late as the 70s, Elvis helped B.B. King get some gigs in the Las Vegas. Afterwards, they’d talk and play music together. I think I’ll take B.B. King’s words over anyone else’s words on their relationship and thoughts on music. His words matters, not anyone else speaking for him.
Great post, you talked a lot about this but didn't mention it specifically, there is a big different in power between those who appropriate a culture and those that created it. Groups that appropriate are trying to further take away the power (of creation, enjoyment, identity, etc.) of the group that originated the aspects of a culture.
Elvis can cover Big Mama Thornton and do a good job with it. You covered Patsy Cline, and did a good job with it ably assisted by some country musicians. Talent recognizes talent. I think it was Duke Ellington who said there are two types of music: good music and the other kind. BTW: a group called T & L Back Violin appeared on my UA-cam. Two casual looking black violin players who take classical music into another dimension. They're worth a listen.
I am not sure how much authenticity there is in the TV Movie, Bessie -based on Bessie Smith? but in there it does indicate about a performer, who was more than that, she became actually a business woman, or on the business side of Entertainment as well, ran her own minstrel shows etc. In generally appalling times for her race. Perhaps not to as much a degree, similar is suggested in the W.C Handy bio pic, starring Nat King Cole, and Bojangles, although there it suggests he more or less toed the line of the times. Movies of course are constructed in a way to get as many backsides on seats as possible, for their day, so there not going to suggest too much as anti, or pro one culture, preference, whatever, whomever? Where Entertainment is concerned in the U.S.A since the time of it's discovery, pretty well, because more European races [ lighter complexioned races] discovered, and began developing it. They took the control, ownership over most everything. Music publishing, theaters. museums, parks, anywhere, or any how any body could be entertained. In the early centuries of America, even the music, the plays, most everything was Europe imported. America being the capitalist democracy it was, is, and conducted that way, it is obvious, those with more financial, and just profile clout, are going to dominate, have it their way. It might have been just a numbers thing, but the Irish in earlier times, and then a bit later Jewish people controlled much of Entertainment, or at least that is what books etc indicate. Whatever? in earlier times, or for a very long time, regardless of your complexion,ancestry, if you had talents of any kind, unless you got into the business side of it. You would have had to really battle. Most documentation etc suggests Stephen Foster was constantly ripped of. It is any wonder if you compare that to what now looks like was a darker complexioned man, that wrote Dixie, or at least planted the idea, has never been acknowledged, in an official capacity. People like P.T Barnum seemingly took on the establishment, got his own museums etc going, later on George M Cohan, who became more than a performer but an institution .owning his own theaters etc. I know he was Irish, Barnum not sure? I don't know about people like Scott Joplin. George Washington Johnson, of the earlier times of the twentieth Century, when things were becoming more industrialized, if they had more control over their works, but it appears to me, later on the likes of Bert Williams did, It is said he had, and made his own movies, the distribution they got etc, I am not sure. What has to be considered is, be they were, right, or wrong, to get an understanding of why things went in directions that did advantage some and not others, is to TRY TO comprehend them from their beginnings or roots, It is quite obvious going back to times prior to any communication means. Most Everything would be based on a he, or she told me. THING, Who was good, or not, What piece of music was worth buying whatever? Even who composed it, or not. Regardless of whom that was, I think, I have faith, that most people, are not prejudice, or bias in any way, but just appreciate what they like, hear, see whatever, it does not depend on color or anything like that, or who it originated from, That does not of course mean that attempts cannot be made to try and compensate the off spring of artists, who did write music, songs etc there not acknowledged for, whatever or whomever they are, or other they should be acknowledged for. I cannot of course confirm all this, it is based on my general understandings in books, visual material etc of the development of popular Entertainment and that effecting it. I am no different than anybody I was not there when it all happened.
@@DaraStarrTucker No, it’s called Marxism. Cultural appropriation is not something that the average man or woman cares about. It’s simply a tool wielded by Leftist elitists and especially neurotic women with liberal arts degrees to divide the races. What’s considered early 1900’s “black culture” is really just an acculturated set of dialects and norms that blacks got from poor Irish-Scottish immigrants in the South. Read “Black Rednecks and White Liberals.” That behavior that the Irish-Scots displayed was considered aberrant and self-destructive back then and it is equally as harmful today in 2022 when blacks do it; however, liberals view toxic black culture, especially the music and jargon, as sacrosanct and beyond reproach. Sad that you care so much about preserving the racial purity of degeneracy. Sounds _racist_ to me. It’s also hilarious that consider Jews to be “white” when for the vast majority of history, including within America, they haven’t been seen as such. Most European ethnic groups were not seen that way so how the last 40-50 years or so makes that much of a difference with regard to what you term “white supremacy” is something that you’ve not proven at all nor will you ever prove it.
@@DaraStarrTucker You just called me stupid, and in a way that you actually believe makes you sound smart. You should dig a little deeper before you spread this nonsense. Anyone can be guilty of cultural appropriation, it's just considered more controversial when done by the majority. Do you really think you get a free pass to put on a Sombrero, or wear a native American headdress as a costume?
First, I don't understand how thick lips, big hips, curly hair, or dark skin can be thought of as "cultural." They are biological, and due to genetic mutation anyone from any group could wind up with them. I suppose there are many parts of one's biology that are more morphological than genetic, and that they can easily be modified (by means of collagen injections, consumption of high-calorie foods, perming, or tanning, respectively). I also suppose that it's not possession of these features alone that is thought of as cultural, but the pride taken in them. Still, I tend to think of culture as something that humans develop, not that nature develops. Even when you leave out biology, though, there is a LOT of overlap between culture and the various other facets of the human gemstone: race, ethnicity, nationality, religion, social class. Because of intersectionality, many people can be thought of as "dominant" on the one hand AND "marginalized" on the other. Elvis Presley was part-Native American; how, then, can he truly be called "dominant," if one takes historical legacies into account? And he "opened doors" not just for the Rolling Stones, Led Zeppelin, and Vanilla Ice, but also for Jimi Hendrix, Prince, and Lenny Kravitz - the latter two of whom are half-white anyway. Freddie Mercury was Indian, and thus sprung from a people who were colonized and subjugated by the British Empire; is Mercury to be thought of as "dominant" because he drew creatively from black music? One could argue that the United States itself is overly dominant - politically, economically, and socially - and thus that even an African-American enjoys dominance over a white European or over an Asian. I, an Irish-American, do not consider myself "appropriationist" of Hispanic culture for enjoying burritos on a weekly basis and only occasionally enjoying culcannon, because the Spanish people at one point ruled one of the largest empires in history - one that spanned five continents - while the Irish people never ruled an empire at all. (True, that imperial society was not equal across the board, mestizos and Natives never enjoying all the privileges that criollos and Europeans did, but that's a societal sin of Hispanic people, not of Anglo-Irish people.) Power is not a cut-and-dried concept, and cultural exploitation is subjective enough to be an individual judgment call.
I'm sure nobody is going to read all of this, but I have nothing to do today, so here goes. My comments are in bold: "First, I don't understand how thick lips, big hips, curly hair, or dark skin can be thought of as "cultural." They are biological, and due to genetic mutation anyone from any group could wind up with them. I suppose there are many parts of one's biology that are more morphological than genetic, and that they can easily be modified (by means of collagen injections, consumption of high-calorie foods, perming, or tanning, respectively). I also suppose that it's not possession of these features alone that is thought of as cultural, but the pride taken in them. Still, I tend to think of culture as something that humans develop, not that nature develops." *Yes that's true, but watch any coon movies with actors in Blackface or racist cartoons from the early 1900s and every characteristic you described is not only on full display but exaggerated to berate Black culture. Genes expressed on the phenotype are loosely considered racial and/or cultural by everyday layman. Big lips, wide nose, fat ass is associated with Black people even though Whites can have those traits as well. Everyone knows that.* "Even when you leave out biology, though, there is a LOT of overlap between culture and the various other facets of the human gemstone: race, ethnicity, nationality, religion, social class. Because of intersectionality, many people can be thought of as "dominant" on the one hand AND "marginalized" on the other. Elvis Presley was part-Native American; how, then, can he truly be called "dominant," if one takes historical legacies into account?" *Someone has never heard of the one drop rule. I'm mixed, but if I lived in the time of Elvis I would be considered Black and treated as such. Surely you're not saying White culture was not dominate in America during Elvis' time? Elvis was White because White America deemed him so the same way I would have been considered Black although I am mixed, because White America deemed it so. Plain and simple.* "And he "opened doors" not just for the Rolling Stones, Led Zeppelin, and Vanilla Ice, but also for Jimi Hendrix, Prince, and Lenny Kravitz - the latter two of whom are half-white anyway. Freddie Mercury was Indian, and thus sprung from a people who were colonized and subjugated by the British Empire; is Mercury to be thought of as "dominant" because he drew creatively from black music? One could argue that the United States itself is overly dominant - politically, economically, and socially - and thus that even an African-American enjoys dominance over a white European or over an Asian. I, an Irish-American, do not consider myself "appropriationist" of Hispanic culture for enjoying burritos on a weekly basis and only occasionally enjoying culcannon, because the Spanish people at one point ruled one of the largest empires in history - one that spanned five continents - while the Irish people never ruled an empire at all. (True, that imperial society was not equal across the board, mestizos and Natives never enjoying all the privileges that criollos and Europeans did, but that's a societal sin of Hispanic people, not of Anglo-Irish people.)" *The dominant culture in America since its inception has been White Culture plain and simple. Yes, things are changing, and we are looking at this whole Elvis issue through contemporary lenses, but we have to put ourselves in that time period. The dominant culture during Elvis' rise to stardom was White Culture (Jim Crow anybody???)* "One could argue that the United States itself is overly dominant - politically, economically, and socially - and thus that even an African-American enjoys dominance over a white European or over an Asian" *This has me completely baffled. Culture deals with the identity of a entire group of people, not an individual. Because my manager at work is Black doesn't mean Black culture is the dominant culture in the entire country. WTF?* " is Mercury to be thought of as "dominant" because he drew creatively from black music?" *Does he belong to the majority or the minority? From what I hear, Elvis was a good man. A lot of Black musicians loved him. Here's a quote from him:* *“A lot of people seem to think I started this business, but rock ‘n’ roll was here a long time before I came along,” Elvis told Jet‘s Louie Robinson. “Nobody can sing that kind of music like colored people. Let’s face it: I can’t sing it like Fats Domino can. I know that. But I always liked that kind of music. I used to go to the colored churches when I was a kid - like Rev. Brewster’s church (Rev. W. Herbert Brewster of East Trigg Ave. Baptist Church in Memphis).” * *Black music was denigrated and demonized. White America did not want to see a N-word on stage gyrating his hips during that time period in the US. White music executives thought they could sell it by putting a White face on it--Elvis--THAT's CULTURAL APPROPRIATION.* "I, an Irish-American, do not consider myself "appropriationist" of Hispanic culture for enjoying burritos" *Okay, so let's reason by analogy. It's the 1940s. The dominant culture, White people, are not going to eat Mexican food because it's the cuisine of [insert racist term for Mexicans]. A White Southern woman loves Mexican people and their food and likes to cook it herself. Let's say her name is Billy Ray. This Southern gal opens a restaurant and serves Mexican food. People love it. She is discovered by an entrepreneur who convinces her to open up a chain of restaurants so he can profit. White people love the food. She becomes a sensation and is called the Queen of Burritos."* *She did not invent Mexican food. It was demonized and hated with vitriol. A businessman put a White face on it and now she's "The Queen of Burritos." Five decades later, White people thinks she invented burritos.* *^^^You still don't get what cultural appropriation is...Elvis was a good person ; society at the time was not so good.*
@@cant_nerf_this6732 I think you are selling past generations of Americans seriously short. It wasn't just Elvis who was "good" back then. Mainstream political reformers were combating racism and sexism behind the scenes as early as the 1950s; the fact that this was not reflected in popular culture means nothing, since fiction does not reflect reality. (Are we supposed to believe that directors of horror films really condone murder, or that most pornographers condone rape?) And most people did NOT say the "N-word" - because, as Atticus Finch put it, that word was "common," and people were a bit more snobbish back then.
@@SeasideDetective2 "And most people did NOT say the "N-word" - because, as Atticus Finch put it, that word was "common," and people were a bit more snobbish back then." *You're seriously delusional. I'm from Alabama and people here still say the N-word to this day.* "(Are we supposed to believe that directors of horror films really condone murder, or that most pornographers condone rape?)" Is that a strawman or a red herring? I can never tell the difference between the two. "I think you are selling past generations of Americans seriously short. It wasn't just Elvis who was "good" back then. Mainstream political reformers were combating racism and sexism behind the scenes as early as the 1950s" Oh my bad. Seeing Blacks lynched by the KKK and Martin Luther King being beaten for simply wanting equal rights biased my viewpoint a bit. SMH. Elvis put a White face on Rock n Roll the same way Billy Ray did with Burritos, lol. Watch this video... ua-cam.com/video/Qo4_UT1pF6k/v-deo.html
@@cant_nerf_this6732 It's neither a strawman nor a red herring. It's an analogy. I'm simply making the point that cultural expression doesn't always - in fact, usually doesn't - reflect real life. Doing blackface minstrelsy does not automatically mean you think all black people are pathetic, any more than making a horror film means you think innocent people deserve to be murdered.
As a white person, I'm going to start wearing only dirndls. I will only listen to songs about parsely, sage, rosemary and thyme and whiskey in the jar.
I guess that beats using critical thinking skills to understand complex nuanced subjects that require you to display an iota of cultural sensitivity. Good luck with all that.
I kinda see it as alot of these white people are also brought up in the culture just as black people are color shouldn't be the defining factor for everything
Are you trying to say Minority’s making money using a computer or internet are guilty of culture appropriation! It’s really not a great idea to start complaining over humans embracing different cultures . Some people who feel that way might want to do some thinking .
@@DaraStarrTucker it's a dumb buzzword. Black people copy things from other cultures all the time. Women like Beyonce literally try to look white and have white features. They use middle eastern and hindi beats in their rap music. Nobody cares. The only people crying and making a fuss about things like this are leftist whites and BLM types. Not everyone is going to bend down and kiss your rear ends because you think you own the right to dreadlocks or hip hop music. and they shouldn't. This inferiority/victim/entitlement mentality is destructive and promotes racism, it does not reduce it.
Actually you do in order to be a decent human being and or be respectful- otherwise you are a souless narcissistic entitled being- oh wait- thats called "privledge".. carry on-- sp excuse typos
And that’s your take away from this entire video? A well researched, 6 1/2 minute video laying out the implications of cultural appropriation in a nuanced, thoughtful way, and you accuse me of not doing my research because of a couple of songs Macklemore did? 😆 He still made his money.
@@ChrigiKro The existence of Macklemore's song does not mean Ms. Tucker's information is wrong. There's no way it could. If it did, you'd have proof of that you'd want to cite. You resort to a sarcastic baseless accusation. Nothing in that song's lyrics is a disproving of points Ms. Tucker made. First it sounded like you were accusing her of being later than him, as if it was a timing challenge or plagiarism going on, which it wasn't, then you just vaguely call her wrong.That's ridiculous.
Okay, I was with you until you started saying white people have no culture. How about country music, which has gotten massively popular in the last ten years in places like Europe and Canada that have no connection to Appalachia? I have yet to see some Swedish band -- and I'm all for Swedish bands -- acknowledge the poor exploited whites of coal country before playing their music for a paying audience. But actual Appalachians still get shade from the rest of the country and the world. That's appropriation by your definition, but if it doesn't strike you as such, I think you should ask yourself why. People all over the world have both appreciated and appropriated each others' cultures for all of human history. Even when they're doing it to make money, by putting on concerts, operating restaurants etc, they're still bringing the music, cuisine, and style of one group to other groups. That's worth something in terms of pride in your heritage, even if it didn't directly make someone from your cultural group rich in the process. I don't care if the owners or the cooks in an Irish pub are Irish, Black or Chinese. If I can get a good shepherd's pie there, and other people can do the same and it makes them think Irish is cool, there's no downside for anyone in that.
I didn’t say white people didn’t have culture. I said many of them would be hard pressed to identify what that culture is. Appalachians would be one of the obvious exceptions.
You clearly have no clue what appropriation is. 😆 Talking just to hear yourself talk. (Type). I clearly said I learned the German language. Learning a language has absolutely nothing to do with cultural appropriation. But I’m guessing what you’re interested in is not education, but argument & deflection. 👉🏾🚪
I love how white people say that with absolutely no self-awareness whatsoeverAs though Black people didn’t exist at the time and were not making these exact points then. There were even some white folks who actually got it. Just because it’s new to you doesn’t mean it’s new.
@@DaraStarrTucker There was more appreciation for music back then without some of the repercussions of present day . I’ve met The Temptations, Shirley Alston Reeves ,Cornell Gunters Coasters and a brief encounter with Little Anthony of the Imperials. They all treated me with a warm respect and we had great conversations! Meeting them all was a dream come true! I had a hotel room next to the Present Platters and I could hear him practicing The Great Pretender! This all happened in Las Vegas back in around 2000 ! These are the new groups representing the great groups of the past and I did not see any animosity about color of any kind. In fact. It was never brought up.
@@dannovack1364 Conversations like this are not about stirring up “animosity.” I’m sure those performers appreciated other talented musicians. And they were glad to be working. These are deeper conversations that belong in the cultural discourse. Doesn’t mean black and white people can’t enjoy playing music together.
I don't understand what the problem is why it's difficult to understand when come to black ppl. If an individual says that something you feel is appreciation makes them uncomfortable Why is it so hard fkr you not to do and I see that its mostly prodominately when its black ppl saying no, stop, & don't. For example, you wouldn't dare disrespect or go in a community where the majority of the group is Asian and wear their sacred kimono in their faces after they've stated no do not. So why the concept so hard to grasp when an african american ask the same? It shouldn't be but it is due to learned patterns passed down through generation & we know through science that evolutionary properties exist in regards to a passed behavior. For example, have ever wonder why most african american do don't deal with dogs that are not their's & tend to run from them if they decide that dog is a threat to their safety. Well generations ago dogs were used to hunt their ancestors & that trait has evolved on its own enough were it's an automatic response for most black ppl. To further prove this there are Indigenous ppl who are prone to alcohol usage because of the passed down generational trauma & as far as evolution their is tribe that hunts underwater & over time they trained themselves to hold their breath for long periods of time fish & now their children are born with those same capabilities w/o being trained to do so.
Thank you for breaking this down in such a concise, direct way and sharing this information. I'm sorry that it is 2022, and you still have to explain this. But I appreciate that you took the time to and hope more people see it and receive it.
What? Please watch black artists talk about Elvis, this channel is full of disinformation....
Oh look. A white woman who’s ashamed of her skin color. Who woulda thought
You ate this whole video!! I was looking for an introduction to cultural appropriation for my students that was fundamental without being basic and this was the only one I could find. You were thorough, nuanced and connected history and the present seamlessly. Thank you!!
Thank you for this!! You have put exactly what I’ve been trying to teach and say in a video that can easily be watched and understood. Bravo!
Elvis was not racist by any stretch of the imagination. B.B. King, Little Richard, Fats Domino, and countless other influential black artists commended Elvis for being a great man and a wonderful friend. Elvis admired Dr. Martin Luther King Jr, and sung “If I Can Dream” based on the words of Dr. King. He said that Fats Domino was the true king of rock and roll, and said that rock and roll had been around long before he came along. Big Mama may have recorded “Hound Dog” before Elvis, but it was the Frankie Bell and the Bellboys version that inspired Elvis to record the song as well (notice how Elvis’s version is much closer to the Bellboys version than Big Mama’s.) it must also be noted that Big Mama didn’t even write the song, it was written by two white men, Lieber and Stroller, who wrote dozens of songs for Elvis once he had gotten famous (including Jailhouse Rock, Don’t, and many more.) many people say Elvis’s dance moves copied black artists, but that claim has also never personally made sense, since Elvis’s style of moving happened by accident one night when he was shaking his left leg during a performance out of nerves. Besides, what popular black artists were moving the way Elvis was moving at the time?
I also hear the argument that Elvis stole their music, but it was VERY common practice back in the day to cover songs. You don’t really get that in todays music scene, but back then there would be dozens of covers for every song that became a hit. Elvis was no different, he would record songs he liked. Consider this, even, how many of us would know the names of Big Mama Thornton, Big Boy Crudup, Otis Redding, or Rufus Thomas Jr. without Elvis? Their memory and music has been kept alive through Elvis’s legacy, and he was always keen to cite his influences. When he was younger he would sneak into black churches because he liked the spirit they had there, it’s a wonder he even discovered black music at all because in his time black music was taboo for white kids like him. When he was interviewed on the radio for the first time he was asked to specify his high school so that people listening would know that he was white.
I just don’t like the idea that music can only be for one specific race. That’s nonsense to me. That’s like saying Michael Jackson stole from The Beatles, or Sam Cooke stole from Frank Sinatra. Music is art, just like films or paintings, it’s a form of expression. If Elvis’s form of expression was through black culture, it’s because that’s how he grew up, he was raised around that culture, so he wouldn’t really know it any other way. In a way, black culture was a part of his culture. He just loved the music, is all.
I’ve also never really met an OLDER black person that’s ever actually had a problem with Elvis, it’s always young white people or young black teenagers. All the older black women that have come in to see the movie (I work at the local cinema) have nothing but positive things to say about him and his legacy. I even met one lady that got to see him live back in the 70s, which made me super jealous😂
I get what you mean when you said that appropriation means not paying homage to the original culture, but Elvis was always apt to say where rock and roll came from. He said it came from a mix of black gospel and r&b COUNTLESS times.
Also, rock and roll’s popularity SKYROCKETED once Elvis got popular, so Little Richard, Chuck Berry, Fats Domino, and so many others also got rich off of Elvis in a way, and many of them cited Elvis as a friend and an influence as well.
So I don’t think that Elvis is really an example of cultural appropriation. He may be at the surface, but if you know the story and research both the man and his life, you see that he didn’t really appropriate black culture. But I can see why many people would think so, because to prove the assumption wrong you really have to get into the details. Besides, Elvis recorded HUNDREDS of non-black songs by non-black artists, so it’s not like his discography is filled only with appropriation even if it was the case. Elvis was a fan, and an avid listener of black music, and looked up to people he called his idols. He once said himself “if I had one goal in life, it was to be as good as Arthur Crudup”. He inspired so many black artists, Barry White turned his life around and perused music just because he heard Elvis’s “It’s Now Or Never” on the radio while in prison.
I do agree that pure cultural appropriation is a problem, but Elvis always cited his influences and complimented the black culture. He didn’t sweep it under the rug like cultural appropriators do. He owned it and added his own spins to it, unlike the jazz artists of the 20s and 30s that blatantly ripped off black artists with not a mention of their influences.
I get the point of the video, and I thank you for bringing awareness to the racial issues that persist in popular culture, but I don’t think Elvis falls under that category. I think it’s important to note that when Elvis recorded a song WRITTEN by a black artist, the artist would receive royalties for Elvis’s recording, in the case of Big Mama, she didn’t write Hound Dog, she only recorded it, just like The Bellboys, so she didn’t make money off of Elvis’s version any more than the Bellboys did. Otis Redding, a black artist who wrote songs recorded by Elvis, made money off of Elvis’s versions. I think a few people get confused there so I wanted to clear that up.
Besides that I agree with the video. Racism is a huge issue everywhere, especially in recent years, but I don’t think taking it out on dead non-racist people is the answer. The answer instead would be to expose the actual racists for their unethical behavior, and to educate the young about how everyone deserves equal respect, regardless of race, religion, sexual orientation, gender, or disability.
(Give Elvis’s “If I Can Dream” a listen if you haven’t already, I’m sure Dr. King would approve of the message, since it was based on his iconic speech😁)
I’m just gonna copy this comment and spam it on any video she hasn’t turned comments and likes off lol
@@sovietelmo3000 I wouldn’t want to get annoying about it. It’s just the facts. I agree with her overall message but there’s no need to keep spreading the lies about Elvis Presley and his legacy. It’s just odd to me that Elvis was a champion for black culture and yet they turn it around as if he was some evil racist despite being really supportive of black artists.
Facts! Well said and respectfully articulated.
Great video, I added into a lesson I made on the history of hip-hop music for my social studies class.
It's always a lovely thing when I hear my videos are being used in classrooms. Thanks for letting me know!
Great feature, Ms. Tucker! You are a queen of recognizing distinctions. A relative called me in 1977 and asked me if I was upset Elvis had died. I thought “About as upset as I’d be if any stranger had died.” Yay, you publicized Encyclopedia Brittanica. I’m not getting rid of my parents’ encyclopedias on the bookshelf. I agree with all your points about appropriation vs. appreciation and I was further enlightened in some ways, too. The dialogue and image snippets you put together for this, and their timings, are brilliant, too.
Thanks, Bob. 👍🏽
@@DaraStarrTucker You're welcome. It seems you or youtube removed the reply comment I posted below about the controversial Eric Clapton quote. I am sorry if there was something wrong with my posting it. I thought it would be good to clarify what noodlehoppa wrote. I put dashes through parts of some naughty words E.C. was quoted elsewhere as saying. I don't know if the problem was length or content or what. You seemed to think Eric was basically OK and I pointed out at the start he had apologized repeatedly and blamed it on his addictions. I apologize again. If you deleted it, perhaps you could clarify what was wrong about it so I'll know for the future.
@@bobdavis4848 I didn't delete any comments. I don't know what happened.
@@DaraStarrTucker Thank very much for your feedback. There were a couple of repeated insults to foreigners in that old Eric Clapton in concert quote I had never heard of before. Even though I used dashes for parts of them and for the f word, those, length or the fact I had done a cut and paste from a website with different size font I suppose could have triggered some kind of youtube removal (avoiding the word "censorship" to not sound insulting or possibly over presumptuous) bot. I recently learned there is a twelve letter "m" word that will make youtube apparently always remove a comment if it's included, and it doesn't have an "f" in it. Others used it somewhere with an asterisk replacing one letter and their comments stayed. Actually awhile ago I seem to recall a comment or two of mine disappeared without content that could be controversial but there was a cut and paste in it. Maybe youtube adjusts its bots or changes policies form time to time but doesn't explain it all to users. Maybe in this case a Clapton fan on staff removed that comment manually due to not liking how I had dredged up that old comment in the name of research and of explanation.
Spot on. I wonder what you think about this (you're commentary is so sharp it helps me clarify my own ideas): it always struck me that the great BRITISH rock stars of the 60s and 70s did acknowledge their debt to Black musicians, especially blues musicians, and nearly all of them took steps to promote the late careers of the great Black blues singers. Howlin' Wolf, Chuck Berry, and others were acknowledged and supported by Keith Richards, Eric Clapton, and others. And, some of those British updates of Black American blues were brilliant in their own way--different, not better, but still worthy of appreciation. All this seems to me really different from the Elvis phenomenon. But maybe I'm not seeing something. I genuinely believe at this point that if that's the case, Dara, you can help figure it out. Got anything?
Beautifully said! I wish I could have intelligently and with such articulation brought this point further when trying to make people more aware. But I am so glad I heard you do it so well.
Thank you for taking the time to explain it to us and I hope a lot more people will see this and have a new understanding of what's really, really been going for centuries. Bless you. ❣
Many radio stations weren’t allowed to play black music so the recording companies came up with this idea to have white groups record their versions for white audiences. Mercury records did both recordings . Little Darling was recorded by the Diamonds. The original was by the Gladiolas , Maurice Williams later of STAY fame. That album Stay by The Zodiacs is worth its weight in gold now. $$$! On PBS they had a rock and roll revival that had David Somerville with the Diamonds bring Maurice Williams to the stage to do Little Darling. The generations past and present cheered him on! That was so cool! A lot of those small r&b labels that weren’t million sellers are worth BIG money some are worth $100s and even $1,000s and some white collectors made some impressive bids ! For your precious love by The Impressions on Vee Jay records is one of the most collectibles in rarity and worth. Vee Jay records was a black owned company in Chicago that had The Beatles and the Four Seasons as recording artists at the same time! That was before The Beatles came to the US!!!! No one wanted this first album by the Beatles. After they came to the US , Capitol records went to court to stop further sales for Vee Jay . They were allowed for 1964 to sell their Beatles album! I know they made a nice fortune for that year! The name Vee Jay affectionately named as husband and wife . This is a real story that still talked about among Beatles fans , collectors of all genres . This was a great triumph for a small R&B label especially for the times! This was a black enterprise to be celebrated in this special month. Pass it on!!!
I have a foot note to the VeeJay story about how the business went under. It was a small company with more artists to tend to. To have more industries to handle the influx of all those artists would have been a huge amount of investment capita to stay afloat. A small family run business for as many years as it went , was a great effort and legacy to be remembered in music history!
What I learned about " Hound Dog" by Mama Thornton and Elvis is that , Jerry Leiber, and Mike Stoller wrote it. So they made two versions and got paid either way.
I'm not American, I'm Australian. It's always struck me that the American culture that we love and emulate in other parts of the world music, fashion etc is eseentially black American while black Americans don't enjoy the status, recognition etc that should go with that. My country has alot of racism towards indigenous Australians and is still in denial about what happened when Europeans came here. So I'm not saying we are any better. It's just that American culture is so influential. We all grew up watching American TV and listening to American music and following American fashions. So you start to think about what makes American stuff so cool. And its black 'cool'. Even the word cool is part of that. I never thought about young white people looking for something of more substance than consumerism. Thanks your videos are amazing.
Thanks for recognizing this. Many Americans are spoonfed lies, or are coddled into believing they're more exceptional than they are. If you try to tell them the truth, they claim you're victimizing them. They'd rather not know the truth for the most part. Sometimes it takes an outsider to acknowledge that.
B.B. King once said of Elvis Presley and racism:
“Let me tell you the definitive truth about Elvis Presley and racism', The King of the Blues, B.B. King said in 2010. 'With Elvis, there was not a single drop of racism in that man. And when I say that, believe me I should know.”
Elvis was just a fortunate man who was at the right place and right time in history with the talent to capitalize on the opportunities before him. He also combined multiple genres of music including the Stamps Quartet, Frank Sinatra, Eddy Arnold and Dean Martin who am were “white” with influences such as Howlin Wolf, Fats Domino and Arthur Crudup who were “black.” Now none of these artists black or white achieved Elvis’s apogee of fame because they just _were not Elvis._ Why you and other faux historians/sociologists of music feel compelled to inject race into the discussion as if Elvis was somehow taking dollar bills out of “black” people’s pockets just for paying homage to their styles is flabbergasting. Cultural appropriation is *not a thing* because Liberals only ever want to discuss it when it’s about “white” people incorporating elements of other cultures.
You may claim that majority cultures taking cultural elements from minority cultures is just part and parcel of the definition of “cultural appropriation,” but then that’s just circular logic that benefits your agenda. There is no net harm nor net benefit conferred to one racial group or another just because one man whose skin color is lighter and more common got rich from using music made by darker skinned people (in addition to other colors of people). You operate from a presupposition of racism and the concept that white people dominate the culture categorically, yet Asian Americans are actually the most successful racial class in America. Where is the white supremacy when Asians make the most money, have the best educational performance, and live in the most intact 2-parent communities?
So before you can even make the claim of “cultural appropriation by whites” you have the all-important task of justifying why your definition does not implode on itself under the most minute scrutiny.
It’s hilarious how people will write these diatribes against the concept of cultural appropriation accusing me of everything under the Sun as though this isn’t an established phenomenon with an actual dictionary definition. Just because it doesn’t fit YOUR AGENDA doesn’t make it invalid. Step back and study & don’t be so quick to give these reflex responses because it upsets your concept of the world.
@@DaraStarrTucker It’s hilarious how people don’t critically read the things that they are replying to in the comments section. Nothing in my comment gives the impression of a reflexive “firing from the hip” style of response. I also posted another reply elsewhere which cites the book “Black Rednecks and White Liberals” which dismantles the cultural appropriation argument-“black culture” came from Irish-Scot immigrants. And it was always seen as an inferior culture even when the Irish-Scots did it. Nowadays the culture has metastasized into one, traditionally called “ghetto,” that values poor health, oversexualized media and single parent homes which have terrible outcomes for children. The fact that other races are now imitating this culture is a net negative for everyone so your concerns about Bhad Bhabie are misplaced. You should be asking how we can stop Black Americans from acting that way, not just white ones or any other race. For example, speaking African American Vernacular English benefits who now..? Last I checked the Chinese and Indians haven’t been learning AAVE in order to get significantly wealthier over the last decade so why aren’t we discouraging blacks from speaking that way too when it’s a suboptimal language globally?
You have a lot of unanswered questions ma’am.
Exactly!!!! It was in the Larry King interview. Thank you for this truthful comment!
@@krisjones4051 There are many people all over the world who are speaking and try to learn to speak AAV and call themselves “cool” and make money, and significant money off of the use of the dialect thru music, fashion, dance, etc. Just look at UA-cam and walk into a store to find American black culture and language being used at the highest of levels. Where do you think the term, “back in the day” comes from? Where do you think using opposite words to express how wonderful things comes from?
Though there was cultural interplay between scots-Irish and blacks, to imply that Black People from Africa came with no culture or the only culture they had came from this European source is ridiculous as all humans have culture. Where do you think the music that is most popular in America and now the world comes from? A mix of multiple cultures coming together. However, black music was the one that created the most energy and excitement by the main populace. Eastern European Jewish men were the songwriters of the American songbook and one of those spent significant time studying the music of black people: George Gershwin.
Regardless of you bringing in negative issues that are present in all ethnic groups, black culture and language is an important part of the culture of America. Appropriation is a way to explain some of the injustices that occurred to black artists which they will tell you about themselves if you listen to interviews and read biographies. Since it seems you’ve read Thomas Sowell, perhaps there are others you can look at to get a different perspective.
Having conversations about appropriation doesn’t mean that we can’t have situations where cultural interplay can’t occur. The Beatles and John Coltrane both added aspects of Indian music to their music. Brazilian bossa nova and Cuban salsa music impacted American tastes(both of those musics are black American (south and carribean) music as well). We can talk about it all so we can all make music and be appreciated for our contributions together. But you have to know and understand the initial issues first before you can move on.
@@AlisonCrockett AAVE is not profitable for the _vast_ majority of individuals, blacks or white, and it is often linked to the worst impulses, cultural totems, and pathologies of black American culture/ghetto culture. You’re literally isolating a fractional percentile of individuals that are either involved in music business, entertainment, or pop culture. Promoting a vapid culture of social media influencers that have HipHop cultural affects is not how any population of people has ever moved forward as a group.
I hate to say, but most men and women of all races have to work a 9-5, making between $30-50k/yr and will never progress beyond that average socioeconomic strata. Quite often it is because of poor education which limits income mobility from raises and promotions; things which AAVE would hinder, not enable. I work in the business world and have never met a VP of mergers and acquisitions or a director of operations or a cardiothoracic surgeon who spoke AAVE or anything less than proper English with only a slightly dialect. And as I alluded to many of these individuals are of Asian extraction with a generous percentage of the black professionals being Afro-Caribbean or West Africans-and they dont speak AAVE at the office. Worrying about who borrowed which guitar lick or which syncopated rhythm seems to be a preoccupation of the privileged and bored.
In response to your 2nd paragraph, please show me the sentence where I said, either explicitly or implicitly, that Africans brought over *NO* culture from Africa. That sounds like projection because that’s the sort of tripe that Liberals will often claim about White Americans. That they somehow have no culture. I’ve never made that claim; however, it is worth noting that to the extent that African Americans are one of the worst performing ethnic groups in the US and Africa is one of the poorest and least developed continents globally, clearly the culture they exported is inferior to Western culture curated by & large by Europeans. Music may be profitable, but it’s not and never will be the main driver of economic and social success for a country or a group of people. Music doesn’t manufacture cars or build houses or generate nuclear energy or ship exports across the globe. I would gladly trade every lick of jazz or HipHop music for a culture dominated by engineering prowess and medical innovation.
Appropriation may be a “method” of explaining the circumstances of American black musicians, but it is a dishonest and low resolution framing of the history of music. Someone getting wealthy because they are white and play “black music” is not done at anyone’s expense and music is not a zero sum game. I don’t own black music any more than Sister Rosetta Thorpe or BB King did. Do you realize most modern instruments were invented by white Americans and Europeans? Music theory in general is a product of the French, the Germans, etc. Should blacks be found guilty of appropriating chord progressions and harmony from them?
You, ma’am said what I’ve been wanting to get off my chest for years
Interesting that you used Elvis singing Hound Dog, then jumped to Big Mama Thornton whilst talking about cultural appropriation, as if he stole her song. She didn't write it, Liebmer and Stoller did.
I am fully aware of who wrote it. I have done multiple videos on Elvis and have discussed Lieber and Stoller specifically. This is not about who wrote Hound Dog. It’s about a greater question of appropriation of style, manner and content for financial gain.
@@DaraStarrTucker I am aware that you are aware, which is why it seemed so out of place to use Hound Dog whilst discussing cultural appropriation and Elvis, given that there are many fair accusations that can be levelled at him. You're too intelligent not to know that putting Big Mama Thornton up at that exact moment will lead those less educated on the subject to assume that Elvis stole "her" song.
@@pappy374 Cultural appropriation isn't necessarily or even normally about actual theft of intellectual property -- it's about the "theft" or co-opting of things that cannot be copyrighted, trademarked or sold, as I said in the video. The song was written for her, using a blues chord progression, derived from black American music. If anything, Lieber & Stoller appropriated black culture to write the song in the first place, so it's appropriation of appropriation.
@@DaraStarrTucker following your own definition, (that only a person from a "dominant" "majority" culture -- both words you used in your video -- can be accused of cultural appropriation), then neither Lieber nor Stoller can be accused of cultural appropriation, since they were both Jewish, (neither a majority nor culturally dominant), and especially not for writing black songs for black artists, who then benefited financially. (Elvis, on the other hand...)
@@pappy374 On the contrary, she chose the precise clip where it's absolutely clear that his style of singing is a mirror imitation of hers. I'd never heard of her before as I'm not american, and it was obvious.
I dont always agree with you 100% but I always learn something and have something to think about....some network needs to give you your own tv show. great job.
Great video! Can I use this video for an audience? 😊
Yes!! I literally just made a TikTok about this! Thank you!!
Literally??? Bet you didn’t have too much to say in terms of substance lmaooo goofy
More people need to watch this, very informative & precise. As an ethnic East Asian/Chinese myself, I do hope that the same phenomenon doesn't happen to our culture.
It already kinda is/has. Just not in music but look at how Japanese styles amd art have been migrating to the US and Chinesse action/Kung fu movies have inspired the modern action genre. However that is what is great about the US. It is a cultural melting pot and everyone is welcome to join and combine.
This is wonderful. Everyone should be watching you. You explain everything so well.
Never knew how to put this into words until now.
Question could you also cover how it works in other countries? If we only focus on America and aav i feel it will easily sadly fall through the open space. Also could you go into the difference in appreciation and appropriation under learning things about the different countries and culture fx learning a language or wearing traditional clothes in a respectful manner?
Hello All! I currently am a white hip hop teacher that teaches 5-8 year olds. Most of my students are white, with a couple hispanic students. Do you think what I am doing is cultural appropriation or appreciation? I tell them the historical background about hip hop dance and where is comes from..Show them videos of breakdance crews from the 70's and 80's.They love dancing and learning the movement, but deep down I feel like an imposter and that I am not the correct person to be teaching them about hip hop dance.Should white kids being learning hip hop dance from another white person? Should they be learning from a black person? Should white, asian, and hispanic kids be learning hip hop dance at all? It's part of our American pop culture and now fused with jazz dance, modern, and latin dance. Is it okay that I am teaching hip hop dance as long as I give proper historical context to the movement?
Let me know your thoughts. I might stop teaching hip hop dance this year because I keep struggling with this concept and I don't want to be disrespectful to African American culture.
I'm a huge Eric Clapton fan. The blues is the basis of everything he has done and almost every lick he plays has been copied from his heroes: B.B. King, Robert Johnson, Muddy Waters, etc. He has become quite rich doing this. However, he has always tried to put his heroes in the limelight and to get people to listen to the music his black heroes made. In an interview he did in the late 60s, he said the idea was to get white people to listen to the real thing and then he would have to find something else to play. A good chunk of my music collection is due to going backwards from Eric. (Going from Creams version of Crossroads to Robert Johnson s original version doesn't work, btw. Muddy Waters is a crucial.step back). Given his financial success and his efforts to promote the original artists, would you say Eric is appropriation, appreciation, or a blend of both?
I think Eric Clapton is a good example of someone who has at least attempted to contextualize what he’s doing. And that really is key. Because you can’t just do it. You have to talk about it and help people to understand why it is that you are doing what you are doing. The Stones did a fairly good job of this as well. And they also shined a light on Howlin’ Wolf and Muddy Waters. They helped to point the way back to their heroes and they acknowledged the influence. So, while Eric Clapton cannot escape the label of cultural appropriation because he did benefit from black culture, he has done it in a way that expresses his appreciation for them as well.
A lot of the rock artists are British who acknowledged the music’s roots. They had a different relationship with Black American Artists than white Americans. I’m still having to tell white jazz musicians that jazz is a black American artform and not get into an argument.
Eric Clapton literally told brown people to leave England while playing a bob marley tune.
@@noodlehoppa7212 I've heard the story about that rant dozens of times. I've never heard he was playing I shot the Sheriff when he went on the rant. As there is no recording of the rant, I would have to say that is urban legend (what he was playing, not the rant itself). It was quite a hateful thing. I think after getting sober he regrets the many things he did to hurt people. At least I hope.
I was thinking that as well. I was shocked that they acknowledged his community growing up. I do not think that Elvis appropriated black culture as a kid (He would be way too young for that). I definitely know now that he attended my great grandparents church and summer picnics as a kid. I think that he saw it as a form of liking the music. i feel like the appropriation part came more from his recrord label.
Love your insight .. and with Elvis I think you are spot on he never wanted to harm or steal from anyone. Moving to the 80's plentey of ppl wanted to grab cash from the fun novelty of RAP and many did .. because as Rockabilly early R&B and such was thought to be a flash in the pan
We need to keep a piece of the action.... A hard lesson that can be recooped. We are all influenced by someone, I think Elvis loved music, dance it all period 🙂
Thanks!
Once I became educated about the origins of the music that I adored as a teenager - and that included Led Zep, Aerosmith, The Rolling Stones etc... - and then learning how the source people fared... I stopped enjoying standard rock because I realized my taste was a product of industry manipulation. White people need to understand that US popular music, which is the only really important contribution of US culture to the world.. the only genuine people's music, is 100 percent African American. More to the point, black Americans produced the diverse genres of music that the world has been consuming for 75 years as popular music, and that music evolved as a means for black people to cope with systematic oppression. The failure to speak these truths is unconscionable in this day and age. It goes to show the extent to which cultural appropriation continues by the "music industry", which fortunately is dying. Good riddance. Without meaning to offend, Taylor Swift etc... do not represent, not fairly anyway, US musical legacy.
I've considered myself well spoken and well read but I have struggled with being able to explain the difference between the two but you did a phenomenal job! Thank you for this!
Really good explanation. Like this very much. Though in my opinion Eminem does not belong in here. If i am correct he works with black musicians, acknowledges the origins of his music and pays those around him generously.
Elvis acknowledged where his music came from on numerous occasions.
Serious Questions. Someone once told me gay/drag culture is just a rip off of AAVE. Do you agree? How do you feel about that and would it be considered appreciation or appropriation?
A lot of the lingo from drag & gay culture is ripped off from black women specifically. Yes. That’s appropriation.
gen question: does anyone know if things such as dying your hair are considered appropriation as they originated from Egypt, or are they not as they were never a closed practice or something that had a large cultural significance? When you look up the origin, it mentions that they used it to cover up gray hairs. 👍🏻/lh
Dyeing your hair is not a practice that is specific to any particular culture. Appropriation happens when the dominant culture takes on characteristics of a minority culture in a way that is exploitative.
Good, and maybe simplified for brevity, but you left out that all kids imitate AAVE. Asian, latino, south asian, middle eastern.
What would you call it when Acquafina or Bruno Mars do it and make money from it?
I agree that cultural app (and racism, I would argue) has to do with the local dominant population in general. But I think cultural app involves the monetization of (in this case) Black ppl by any other cultures.
Now there are some white, Latino (non Rican/Dominican/Cuban), asian etc. kid who grew up in black areas, so I guess those ones might be natural. But once they start making money, I'm not sure what to think.
I agree generally that the whole world in general, and non-Black Americans need to acknowledge the cultural (esoecially musical in this comtext)debt owed to Black America.
Gotta thank UA-cams algorithm for showing me this 💎
I got to say I love your videos on this. The one thing we can both agree on Elvis was not praised by white people when he was doing rock music. Technically white people hated Elvis in the beginning lol. Also lot of the cips you showed. I guarantee most of the white people who talk like that that you showed, probably grew up in the suburbs. You might agree, but I feel like it's different if you grew up in the black community but just happened to be white. Also that slang is not gen z that was around when I was a kid and I'm 40. You got to understand you're a lot younger than me. Things were completely different in the 90s. If you were white and grew up in the black community you were family. Nobody treated each other any different. Nobody acted any different. We were all in the same struggle. We were at the same church every Saturday morning to get groceries. Nobody looked at anyone else and said they had privilege. The cops hated poor white people as much as they hated poor black people. cops were always horrible to poor people. I feel like now people are more divided than almost at any other time. Definitely any other time in modern history. I feel like the wealthy are trying to divide and conquer and they're winning. I saw a video one day that said if poor and middle-class white and black people realize they're all in it together they would be unstoppable.
Awesome
A lot of the white groups and singers doing their versions of black music was junk.
My biggest issue with Elvis is that I don't like the music he made. He ripped off people like Big Mama Thornton and Sister Rosetta Tharpe, who I love, and who he totally eclipsed. Now it's hard to even find recordings of the people he stole from, but you can go to the big sweaty mansion where big sweaty Elvis died on the toilet. People act like he's the new God, and he didn't do a lot except for rip Black women off and be white and hot to a 1950's audience. I think he was always hard to look at, but beauty standards do change, I suppose.
I still wish it was Big Mama Thornton who got international acclaim and undying devotion.
I guess I have a dumb question. I'm a jazz fan. Traditional jazz fan. Coltrane, Miles, the '50s- '60s sound. How many of those artists started off by playing show tunes written by the Gershwins, Cole Porter, Irving Berlin, Harold Arlen, Jerome Kern, Rodgers & Hart among many, many others ? Yet the 'traditional jazz' sound that I like is called 'black music' by some. Some even go as far as accusing white artists (Stan Getz comes to mind) as 'ripping off' black artists. And I get it. Coltrane's version of 'My Favorite Things' is one hell of a lot different than the way Julie Andrews sang it in 'Sound of Music'. It's all about improvising. Of making the tune your own. Kind of like what you did with that Billie Eilish tune. Nicely done too, I might add. Same thing with these white R&B singers like Elvis. Or the Stones. They heard what they liked and ran with it in their own style. Isn't it kind of the same thing ? Let's face it, it's hard to be original these days. Everything has been done before.
To cover an artist’s song is not to appropriate their culture. Ellington wrote “Sophisticated Lady” and it’s been covered by many white artists. Appropriation has to do with co-opting of performance styles and and aesthetics, and of course, outright theft of intellectual property. And don’t forget, there is always a power dynamic at work.
It happens when someone from a dominant culture behaves in a way that is predatory. Cultures influence each other. So that basic fact is not what cultural appropriation is really about.
Elvis was performing a cover.
Preach It !
Thank you for your videos!
To me, Chuck Berry is The King. Personal opinion.
How is someone like Stevie Ray Vaughn seen in terms of cultural appropriation, please?
It is an excellent piece, thank you. Please keep in mind that all cultures, however, practice some form of appropriation and adaptation - not just White - and it would be important to teach such to ensure inclusion of offenders across all borders. And that some cultures after "exporting" the supposed art or style or fashion or lifestyle to another culture, found the latter had more interest of that to their group than the culture of origin.
We must stop singling out Whites as offenders of everything, when all races and cultures dabble in the same misdeeds.
Japanese are famous for this... as with Chinese.
Think of Yoga... it was introduced to the Western world by Indian gurus, but today more people in the State of California alone - not percentage but people - practice yoga as a lifestyle than all the people practicing within the entirety of a billion-plus population of India.
PS - sorry, you mentioned dreadlocks within your slides, but dreadlocks have been around for Millenia... and adorned by many races and cultures including Whites. While it might be dominant a hairstyle and cultural attribute to people of African descent, it was never exclusively theirs, and it is not a cultural appropriation if worn by Whites, Arabs, Latinos, or Asian cultures.
@UCSpsqj8-U6n_E7Zm9vc10yg Thank you for your comments. It was very well presented and I respect your point of view. And I took away some new knowledge; others I stick with my own experiences from life abroad and living amongst other cultures. I am not a White American, by the way, I think you are making assumptions that I am. I am one of the cultures, however, who did have dreadlocks in our history... ergo it is not exclusive to African history and is a permitted look for anyone wishing to don the look.
I love the music of Big Mamma Thornton!
If you're wondering why I have to turn off comments on anything having to do with race, look no further than this comment section -- filled with reactionary, snide, uninformed, culturally insensitive anti-intellectuals.
(Thanks to those of you who choose to listen and learn)
@@GOREDO5 Your questions are ill-informed & antagonistic. No attempt to actually learn or take in information that's uncomfortable for you. Literally everything that's wrong with open comments online. You ruin the exchange of ideas for everyone because no one wants to deal with smart @sses all day.
@@GOREDO5 And this is you thinking you should have carte blanche access to come and troll anyone's comments free from challenge or consequences. You're adding literally nothing. You are the problem -- not me. Go find something else to do.
@@DaraStarrTucker Ms. Tucker, I think the concepts of “agree to disagree” and “see both sides of the story” can help heal the world. I’ve noticed you follow concepts like those repeatedly in your careful evaluations in your videos. Unfortunately it seems many, including commenters that have been on some comments here you removed, have not heard of those concepts or don’t believe they're important. I wish all or each commenter(s) of removed comments on this page had respectfully followed the former if they disagree. Cultural appropriation is a topic not everyone will agree on, but someone like you should not feel obligated to go out of your way to make videos everyone will agree fully on, to try not to offend anyone, which is generally impossible anyway. You'd be risking at least partially misrepresenting your own views anyway if you tried that. You were within your rights to have posted this video I think was really well done. I didn’t see the comments you removed beforehand, but I know you don’t remove everything that expresses a difference of opinion; it’s when they cross a line into some sort of intolerant trolling. You get accused of intolerance or words to that effect, but you were only reacting to the real perpetrator. Removal of anything you want is your right; it’s not like you’re trying to disrupt other people’s social media channels. Keep on keeping on.
@@bobdavis4848 It demonstrates she’s mentally fragile and cannot handle criticism. That’s 100% the only reason why Liberal turn off the comment sections on any UA-cam channel. That is never something that you see Conservatives or Orthodox Christians do. She just cannot handle the smoke and is the one offended. I don’t see anybody right-leaning in the comments that is offended. Do you?
@@bobdavis4848 I don’t remove comments unless they’re particularly nasty. UA-cam seems to regularly hide comments it finds objectionable.
I would love to see how this rule works with food ? Why do so many people eat and Cook Italian food if they are not Italian? Should I be offended?
Let me get this straight “ It’s called cultural appropriation for Minorities to feel that way and its called Racism if whites feel that way ?
It’s considered racist when white peoplethat way and And
Bless your confused little heart.
@@DaraStarrTuckerwops had their fair share of discrimination here in the United States. I see exactly what this commenter meant, and obviously you not only missed it, but dismissed it. Whether you realize it or not, you have your own biases; we all do.
So.. by your rationale any and all films, theater plays, poems made and sold in South Africa (for instance) would be considered cultural appropriation? There the majority is of black people and theater plays and poems were invented (at least to my knowledge by Greek society) and film was invented by whites in the US.
I'm not mentioning the fact that Spike Lee, Denzel Washington and Morgan Freeman (to name a few) would in my opinion be practicing cultural appropriation, but you claim that this would be assimilation (I would disagree), as they are a minority.
Cultural appropriation is not “my rationale”. It’s actual fact. Take some time to study this. It’s not about segmenting cultures so no one is able to show influences or participate in things created by another culture. I’m not sure why some people feel the need to make these extreme, dismissive remarks. This is an issue of a majority culture using the cultural affects of a minority culture in an exploitative way. That’s not a hard concept to understand, but some can’t wait to dismiss it by conflating the issue with unrelated things. Shouldn’t be baffling that so many wish to obscure this reality. I guess. Par for the course.
Good point!
Question: I like our Native culture and symbols. I'm considering a tatoo based on a few Lakota designs and art. Not for profit, not for any other reason than I like it and it means something to me, in a spiritual sense. Is that appreciation or appropriation? Better i get your opinion now, you know, before I do it and it's too late. Would really appreciate your thoughts. Great video. Thank you.
I know that Native Americans tend to be extremely sensitive about their culture. Particularly as it relates to the dominant culture’s usage of it. I don’t know what your race or ethnicity is, and I am not Native American, but I would be inclined to think that might be seen as appropriation. But of course, by the strict definition of cultural appropriation, you would not necessarily be receiving any social or financial benefit from it. So could it be called appropriation technically? Probably not. Could it be seen as culturally insensitive? Absolutely. But of course, you would probably do better to ask a few members of the Lakota tribe.
I'm white. You're answer is spot on, and I will investigate more and rethink my idea. Quite likely the mere fact that I'm asking the question means it's appropriation.
@@paulschield2092 Is it a tattoo you really want? Do you have any ill intentions? Or does it all come from a positive place?
I'm from Chile and indigenous peoples(there are 11 peoples along our territory) have gained a lot of protagonism this last few years due to internal conflicts and the reserved seats they had in writing our new constitution. So they've taught us(Chileans) a lot about speech and oppression: first, they're not OUR indigenous peoples, so when talking about them, we should say THE indigenous peoples. Similarly, you wouldn't say OUR Native culture and symbols, you would say "the culture and symbols of Native people."
Also, cultural appropriation is tricky in the sense that some members of a minority group may consider it like that, while others don't and think it's cute(especially older generations). And that is only right, why should a Native community have to be of only one mindset? But that is the excuse that many Chileans(white chilean people, mostly right wing) use to excuse their actions: "Well, I have this Indigenous friend that doesn't mind, so it's okay." Well what about those who do mind?
I've seen TikToks of an American guy wearing traditional clothing of a minority group asking Gen Z students if they think it's cultural appropriation, and they all say yes. Then he goes and asks Boomers of that minority group what they think, and they are all pretty happy. Well of course they are. Cultural appropriation is a new concept. Also, he's probably showing us the responses that support his thinking.
I remember talking to a Mapuche friend during one of the marches during our revolt(2019), and she was mad some white chileans(clearly blonde and blue eyed) where carrying Mapuche flags around. I couldn't really understand her reasoning, and thought on it a lot. Until I realized that I don't have to understand it. Even if she changed her mind about that later on, there always may be someone who takes offence, and that was enough for me to avoid wearing Native symbols on myself. I am learning Mapuzugun(Mapuche language) as that is appreciation.
I would advice you to not get this tattoo. On the scale of possibly offending someone, I'd say it's pretty high.
@@DaraStarrTucker hi. i find you very reasonable. but I don't know how can we decide who is part of a culture and who's not. for example i'm central european, pale asf, blue eyes, light hair etc. we know about our great-grandparents, all of them were white and lived in my home country, only have left their homes during the world wars. I recently take a dna test and it showed that i am a big chunk native american. my family and I are stunned some of them taking dna tests as well to find out where it come from. i've got more then a thousand dna matches distant cousins with native american origins in the US. we don't know about anyone in our family who's ever crossed the Atlantic ocean.
so now I have documents to prove that I'm from native American origin. am I allowed to be a part of that culture. or is it still appropriation because that's not the culture that I grew up with? thank you for your thoughts on this.
B.B. King and many black artists appreciated Elvis alive and dead. Why do do start throwing hate against his legacy?
No one’s throwing hate at his legacy. If you can’t handle truthful discussions, just move on.
@@DaraStarrTuckeryou’re confusing opinion with truth. Furthermore, you have no idea how racially biased you sound. Racism is definitely a two-way street.
Elvis isnt a victim he went along with what he was told he didnt know otis blackwell he wrote for rlvis.
I completely understand that cultural appropriation is a serious issue that affects black Americans but I think people need to be aware that 1) it is a very america-centric discussion and 2) needs to be applied consistently in regards to other cultures. As a German I have been criticised of appropriating black American culture by posting pictures online with 2 long braids, despite the fact that having 2 long braids is also tradition in my southern German culture. There are some things that aren't unique to just black American culture. And regarding the other issue, there are many instances of appropriation of German culture in America. The best example being American Oktoberfests, where people wear literal costumes that look more like maid costumes than Dirndls. I wish people would either consistently criticise all appropriation or avoid criticising on or on behalf of cultures that they have no experience with.
Elvis was dismissed by the press daily for being friends with colour artists and promoting their music, he was the first artist were all races were welcome back in the 50 when that was a real issue, and now he is being condemned?? It is stupid to look at the past with the eyes of the present! History changes everyday!
Wow, learned alot!
Well said
i have a question, so elvis shouldn't have done music? cause that's the part that me confused. i saw the movie and he grew uo around black culture so that's what he was used to. can you explain that to me pls? I'm really confused
That movie wasn’t completely historically accurate. In my opinion, if you’re going to get rich and famous off a minority culture’s music, regardless of who you grew up around, you should find a way to give back. Shine a light on that culture as much as you can. People weren’t as concerned about those dynamics back then, I realize. But the Beatles & Stones seemed to learn a lot from his mistakes.
@@DaraStarrTucker thank you for explaining to me 🥰
@@DaraStarrTuckerI think it was more historically accurate than you think. Have you watched Baz, the Elvis movie director, interview Sam Bell, Elvis’s black childhood friend, here on UA-cam? And Elvis, did, in fact, get into trouble for going to black events after he was a superstar in the 1950s. Do you think he might have gotten any death threats for doing so? He absolutely celebrated the black community during the Jim Crowe era. Baz did extensive research on Elvis AND the era, and while he combined some things, and took creative license on some aspects all biopics do, overall, he did a good job. B.B. King himself stated that he and Elvis were friends. As late as the 70s, Elvis helped B.B. King get some gigs in the Las Vegas. Afterwards, they’d talk and play music together. I think I’ll take B.B. King’s words over anyone else’s words on their relationship and thoughts on music. His words matters, not anyone else speaking for him.
Great post, you talked a lot about this but didn't mention it specifically, there is a big different in power between those who appropriate a culture and those that created it. Groups that appropriate are trying to further take away the power (of creation, enjoyment, identity, etc.) of the group that originated the aspects of a culture.
Elvis can cover Big Mama Thornton and do a good job with it.
You covered Patsy Cline, and did a good job with it ably assisted by some country musicians. Talent recognizes talent.
I think it was Duke Ellington who said there are two types of music: good music and the other kind.
BTW: a group called T & L Back Violin appeared on my UA-cam. Two casual looking black violin players who take classical music into another dimension. They're worth a listen.
He’s not the king to me little Richard is the king of rock n roll
Elvis called Fats Domino the king of rock’n’roll.
I am not sure how much authenticity there is in the TV Movie, Bessie -based on Bessie Smith? but in there it does indicate about a performer, who was more than that, she became actually a business woman, or on the business side of Entertainment as well, ran her own minstrel shows etc. In generally appalling times for her race. Perhaps not to as much a degree, similar is suggested in the W.C Handy bio pic, starring Nat King Cole, and Bojangles, although there it suggests he more or less toed the line of the times. Movies of course are constructed in a way to get as many backsides on seats as possible, for their day, so there not going to suggest too much as anti, or pro one culture, preference, whatever, whomever? Where Entertainment is concerned in the U.S.A since the time of it's discovery, pretty well, because more European races [ lighter complexioned races] discovered, and began developing it. They took the control, ownership over most everything. Music publishing, theaters. museums, parks, anywhere, or any how any body could be entertained. In the early centuries of America, even the music, the plays, most everything was Europe imported. America being the capitalist democracy it was, is, and conducted that way, it is obvious, those with more financial, and just profile clout, are going to dominate, have it their way. It might have been just a numbers thing, but the Irish in earlier times, and then a bit later Jewish people controlled much of Entertainment, or at least that is what books etc indicate. Whatever? in earlier times, or for a very long time, regardless of your complexion,ancestry, if you had talents of any kind, unless you got into the business side of it. You would have had to really battle. Most documentation etc suggests Stephen Foster was constantly ripped of. It is any wonder if you compare that to what now looks like was a darker complexioned man, that wrote Dixie, or at least planted the idea, has never been acknowledged, in an official capacity. People like P.T Barnum seemingly took on the establishment, got his own museums etc going, later on George M Cohan, who became more than a performer but an institution .owning his own theaters etc. I know he was Irish, Barnum not sure? I don't know about people like Scott Joplin. George Washington Johnson, of the earlier times of the twentieth Century, when things were becoming more industrialized, if they had more control over their works, but it appears to me, later on the likes of Bert Williams did, It is said he had, and made his own movies, the distribution they got etc, I am not sure. What has to be considered is, be they were, right, or wrong, to get an understanding of why things went in directions that did advantage some and not others, is to TRY TO comprehend them from their beginnings or roots, It is quite obvious going back to times prior to any communication means. Most Everything would be based on a he, or she told me. THING, Who was good, or not, What piece of music was worth buying whatever? Even who composed it, or not. Regardless of whom that was, I think, I have faith, that most people, are not prejudice, or bias in any way, but just appreciate what they like, hear, see whatever, it does not depend on color or anything like that, or who it originated from, That does not of course mean that attempts cannot be made to try and compensate the off spring of artists, who did write music, songs etc there not acknowledged for, whatever or whomever they are, or other they should be acknowledged for. I cannot of course confirm all this, it is based on my general understandings in books, visual material etc of the development of popular Entertainment and that effecting it. I am no different than anybody I was not there when it all happened.
"If I'm not a part of a dominant culture, I can't be accused of cultural appropriation ". What? Who makes that rule? That's insane.
It’s called the encyclopedia. The anti intellectualism in this country is so pervasive it’s almost (almost) laughable. 😆
@@DaraStarrTucker No, it’s called Marxism. Cultural appropriation is not something that the average man or woman cares about. It’s simply a tool wielded by Leftist elitists and especially neurotic women with liberal arts degrees to divide the races.
What’s considered early 1900’s “black culture” is really just an acculturated set of dialects and norms that blacks got from poor Irish-Scottish immigrants in the South. Read “Black Rednecks and White Liberals.”
That behavior that the Irish-Scots displayed was considered aberrant and self-destructive back then and it is equally as harmful today in 2022 when blacks do it; however, liberals view toxic black culture, especially the music and jargon, as sacrosanct and beyond reproach. Sad that you care so much about preserving the racial purity of degeneracy. Sounds _racist_ to me.
It’s also hilarious that consider Jews to be “white” when for the vast majority of history, including within America, they haven’t been seen as such. Most European ethnic groups were not seen that way so how the last 40-50 years or so makes that much of a difference with regard to what you term “white supremacy” is something that you’ve not proven at all nor will you ever prove it.
@@DaraStarrTucker You just called me stupid, and in a way that you actually believe makes you sound smart. You should dig a little deeper before you spread this nonsense. Anyone can be guilty of cultural appropriation, it's just considered more controversial when done by the majority. Do you really think you get a free pass to put on a Sombrero, or wear a native American headdress as a costume?
@@DaraStarrTucker Using slightly less common words don’t bring validity to your statements little girl
@@sovietelmo3000 Watch your mouth. Be respectful.
Elbis kmew what je was doing I never heard elvis tapk up black musicians than.
First, I don't understand how thick lips, big hips, curly hair, or dark skin can be thought of as "cultural." They are biological, and due to genetic mutation anyone from any group could wind up with them. I suppose there are many parts of one's biology that are more morphological than genetic, and that they can easily be modified (by means of collagen injections, consumption of high-calorie foods, perming, or tanning, respectively). I also suppose that it's not possession of these features alone that is thought of as cultural, but the pride taken in them. Still, I tend to think of culture as something that humans develop, not that nature develops.
Even when you leave out biology, though, there is a LOT of overlap between culture and the various other facets of the human gemstone: race, ethnicity, nationality, religion, social class. Because of intersectionality, many people can be thought of as "dominant" on the one hand AND "marginalized" on the other. Elvis Presley was part-Native American; how, then, can he truly be called "dominant," if one takes historical legacies into account? And he "opened doors" not just for the Rolling Stones, Led Zeppelin, and Vanilla Ice, but also for Jimi Hendrix, Prince, and Lenny Kravitz - the latter two of whom are half-white anyway. Freddie Mercury was Indian, and thus sprung from a people who were colonized and subjugated by the British Empire; is Mercury to be thought of as "dominant" because he drew creatively from black music? One could argue that the United States itself is overly dominant - politically, economically, and socially - and thus that even an African-American enjoys dominance over a white European or over an Asian. I, an Irish-American, do not consider myself "appropriationist" of Hispanic culture for enjoying burritos on a weekly basis and only occasionally enjoying culcannon, because the Spanish people at one point ruled one of the largest empires in history - one that spanned five continents - while the Irish people never ruled an empire at all. (True, that imperial society was not equal across the board, mestizos and Natives never enjoying all the privileges that criollos and Europeans did, but that's a societal sin of Hispanic people, not of Anglo-Irish people.)
Power is not a cut-and-dried concept, and cultural exploitation is subjective enough to be an individual judgment call.
Like how she only replies to people who support the bullshit she spits. When someone presents her with logic, she’s nowhere to be found
I'm sure nobody is going to read all of this, but I have nothing to do today, so here goes. My comments are in bold:
"First, I don't understand how thick lips, big hips, curly hair, or dark skin can be thought of as "cultural." They are biological, and due to genetic mutation anyone from any group could wind up with them. I suppose there are many parts of one's biology that are more morphological than genetic, and that they can easily be modified (by means of collagen injections, consumption of high-calorie foods, perming, or tanning, respectively). I also suppose that it's not possession of these features alone that is thought of as cultural, but the pride taken in them. Still, I tend to think of culture as something that humans develop, not that nature develops."
*Yes that's true, but watch any coon movies with actors in Blackface or racist cartoons from the early 1900s and every characteristic you described is not only on full display but exaggerated to berate Black culture. Genes expressed on the phenotype are loosely considered racial and/or cultural by everyday layman. Big lips, wide nose, fat ass is associated with Black people even though Whites can have those traits as well. Everyone knows that.*
"Even when you leave out biology, though, there is a LOT of overlap between culture and the various other facets of the human gemstone: race, ethnicity, nationality, religion, social class. Because of intersectionality, many people can be thought of as "dominant" on the one hand AND "marginalized" on the other. Elvis Presley was part-Native American; how, then, can he truly be called "dominant," if one takes historical legacies into account?"
*Someone has never heard of the one drop rule. I'm mixed, but if I lived in the time of Elvis I would be considered Black and treated as such. Surely you're not saying White culture was not dominate in America during Elvis' time? Elvis was White because White America deemed him so the same way I would have been considered Black although I am mixed, because White America deemed it so. Plain and simple.*
"And he "opened doors" not just for the Rolling Stones, Led Zeppelin, and Vanilla Ice, but also for Jimi Hendrix, Prince, and Lenny Kravitz - the latter two of whom are half-white anyway. Freddie Mercury was Indian, and thus sprung from a people who were colonized and subjugated by the British Empire; is Mercury to be thought of as "dominant" because he drew creatively from black music? One could argue that the United States itself is overly dominant - politically, economically, and socially - and thus that even an African-American enjoys dominance over a white European or over an Asian. I, an Irish-American, do not consider myself "appropriationist" of Hispanic culture for enjoying burritos on a weekly basis and only occasionally enjoying culcannon, because the Spanish people at one point ruled one of the largest empires in history - one that spanned five continents - while the Irish people never ruled an empire at all. (True, that imperial society was not equal across the board, mestizos and Natives never enjoying all the privileges that criollos and Europeans did, but that's a societal sin of Hispanic people, not of Anglo-Irish people.)"
*The dominant culture in America since its inception has been White Culture plain and simple. Yes, things are changing, and we are looking at this whole Elvis issue through contemporary lenses, but we have to put ourselves in that time period. The dominant culture during Elvis' rise to stardom was White Culture (Jim Crow anybody???)*
"One could argue that the United States itself is overly dominant - politically, economically, and socially - and thus that even an African-American enjoys dominance over a white European or over an Asian"
*This has me completely baffled. Culture deals with the identity of a entire group of people, not an individual. Because my manager at work is Black doesn't mean Black culture is the dominant culture in the entire country. WTF?*
" is Mercury to be thought of as "dominant" because he drew creatively from black music?"
*Does he belong to the majority or the minority? From what I hear, Elvis was a good man. A lot of Black musicians loved him. Here's a quote from him:*
*“A lot of people seem to think I started this business, but rock ‘n’ roll was here a long time before I came along,” Elvis told Jet‘s Louie Robinson. “Nobody can sing that kind of music like colored people. Let’s face it: I can’t sing it like Fats Domino can. I know that. But I always liked that kind of music. I used to go to the colored churches when I was a kid - like Rev. Brewster’s church (Rev. W. Herbert Brewster of East Trigg Ave. Baptist Church in Memphis).”
*
*Black music was denigrated and demonized. White America did not want to see a N-word on stage gyrating his hips during that time period in the US. White music executives thought they could sell it by putting a White face on it--Elvis--THAT's CULTURAL APPROPRIATION.*
"I, an Irish-American, do not consider myself "appropriationist" of Hispanic culture for enjoying burritos"
*Okay, so let's reason by analogy. It's the 1940s. The dominant culture, White people, are not going to eat Mexican food because it's the cuisine of [insert racist term for Mexicans]. A White Southern woman loves Mexican people and their food and likes to cook it herself. Let's say her name is Billy Ray. This Southern gal opens a restaurant and serves Mexican food. People love it. She is discovered by an entrepreneur who convinces her to open up a chain of restaurants so he can profit. White people love the food. She becomes a sensation and is called the Queen of Burritos."*
*She did not invent Mexican food. It was demonized and hated with vitriol. A businessman put a White face on it and now she's "The Queen of Burritos." Five decades later, White people thinks she invented burritos.*
*^^^You still don't get what cultural appropriation is...Elvis was a good person ; society at the time was not so good.*
@@cant_nerf_this6732 I think you are selling past generations of Americans seriously short. It wasn't just Elvis who was "good" back then. Mainstream political reformers were combating racism and sexism behind the scenes as early as the 1950s; the fact that this was not reflected in popular culture means nothing, since fiction does not reflect reality. (Are we supposed to believe that directors of horror films really condone murder, or that most pornographers condone rape?) And most people did NOT say the "N-word" - because, as Atticus Finch put it, that word was "common," and people were a bit more snobbish back then.
@@SeasideDetective2
"And most people did NOT say the "N-word" - because, as Atticus Finch put it, that word was "common," and people were a bit more snobbish back then."
*You're seriously delusional. I'm from Alabama and people here still say the N-word to this day.*
"(Are we supposed to believe that directors of horror films really condone murder, or that most pornographers condone rape?)"
Is that a strawman or a red herring? I can never tell the difference between the two.
"I think you are selling past generations of Americans seriously short. It wasn't just Elvis who was "good" back then. Mainstream political reformers were combating racism and sexism behind the scenes as early as the 1950s"
Oh my bad. Seeing Blacks lynched by the KKK and Martin Luther King being beaten for simply wanting equal rights biased my viewpoint a bit. SMH.
Elvis put a White face on Rock n Roll the same way Billy Ray did with Burritos, lol.
Watch this video...
ua-cam.com/video/Qo4_UT1pF6k/v-deo.html
@@cant_nerf_this6732 It's neither a strawman nor a red herring. It's an analogy. I'm simply making the point that cultural expression doesn't always - in fact, usually doesn't - reflect real life. Doing blackface minstrelsy does not automatically mean you think all black people are pathetic, any more than making a horror film means you think innocent people deserve to be murdered.
As a white person, I'm going to start wearing only dirndls. I will only listen to songs about parsely, sage, rosemary and thyme and whiskey in the jar.
I guess that beats using critical thinking skills to understand complex nuanced subjects that require you to display an iota of cultural sensitivity. Good luck with all that.
And will listen to everything I like except child abuser R. Kelly sentenced to decades of prison
@@DaraStarrTucker you’re certified GOOFY.
I don't agree with this. It seems to me to overstep people's boundaries.
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...but that's Elijah Wood, not the Beastie Boys
Yeah. Figured that out too late. 🥴😆
Wait... having wide hips is cultural appropriation?
No
@Timrath according to her, yes, she clearly said that in this video.
7 minutes just may not be enough to break all this apart.
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I kinda see it as alot of these white people are also brought up in the culture just as black people are color shouldn't be the defining factor for everything
Are you trying to say Minority’s making money using a computer or internet are guilty of culture
appropriation!
It’s really not a great idea to start complaining over humans embracing different cultures . Some people who feel that way might want to do some thinking .
Tell me you don’t understand the concept of culture without telling me.
I don't believe in the concept of "appropriation". Nobody needs to ask you permission to express themselves.
Appropriation isn’t a “belief”. It’s a fact. But you enjoy your alternate reality. 👍🏽
@@DaraStarrTucker it's a dumb buzzword. Black people copy things from other cultures all the time. Women like Beyonce literally try to look white and have white features. They use middle eastern and hindi beats in their rap music. Nobody cares. The only people crying and making a fuss about things like this are leftist whites and BLM types. Not everyone is going to bend down and kiss your rear ends because you think you own the right to dreadlocks or hip hop music. and they shouldn't. This inferiority/victim/entitlement mentality is destructive and promotes racism, it does not reduce it.
my response was blocked or deleted lol. just gonna sum it up by saying this: your sociology professor lied to you
Actually you do in order to be a decent human being and or be respectful- otherwise you are a souless narcissistic entitled being- oh wait- thats called "privledge".. carry on-- sp excuse typos
Says this while speaking a white man's language and wearing a white man's hat...... 😂
I mean Macklemore has 2 songs called "White Privilege" in which he mentions this but I guess don't do your research or whatever...
And that’s your take away from this entire video? A well researched, 6 1/2 minute video laying out the implications of cultural appropriation in a nuanced, thoughtful way, and you accuse me of not doing my research because of a couple of songs Macklemore did? 😆 He still made his money.
@@DaraStarrTucker never said this was my takeaway. Just saying that's some wrong information.
@@ChrigiKro The existence of Macklemore's song does not mean Ms. Tucker's information is wrong. There's no way it could. If it did, you'd have proof of that you'd want to cite. You resort to a sarcastic baseless accusation. Nothing in that song's lyrics is a disproving of points Ms. Tucker made. First it sounded like you were accusing her of being later than him, as if it was a timing challenge or plagiarism going on, which it wasn't, then you just vaguely call her wrong.That's ridiculous.
Okay, I was with you until you started saying white people have no culture. How about country music, which has gotten massively popular in the last ten years in places like Europe and Canada that have no connection to Appalachia? I have yet to see some Swedish band -- and I'm all for Swedish bands -- acknowledge the poor exploited whites of coal country before playing their music for a paying audience. But actual Appalachians still get shade from the rest of the country and the world. That's appropriation by your definition, but if it doesn't strike you as such, I think you should ask yourself why.
People all over the world have both appreciated and appropriated each others' cultures for all of human history. Even when they're doing it to make money, by putting on concerts, operating restaurants etc, they're still bringing the music, cuisine, and style of one group to other groups. That's worth something in terms of pride in your heritage, even if it didn't directly make someone from your cultural group rich in the process. I don't care if the owners or the cooks in an Irish pub are Irish, Black or Chinese. If I can get a good shepherd's pie there, and other people can do the same and it makes them think Irish is cool, there's no downside for anyone in that.
I didn’t say white people didn’t have culture. I said many of them would be hard pressed to identify what that culture is. Appalachians would be one of the obvious exceptions.
You appropriated the language you're using from the English !
You clearly have no clue what appropriation is. 😆 Talking just to hear yourself talk. (Type). I clearly said I learned the German language. Learning a language has absolutely nothing to do with cultural appropriation. But I’m guessing what you’re interested in is not education, but argument & deflection. 👉🏾🚪
@davidanon1568 I absolutely agree with you
This unfortunately is a new view of past culture.
I love how white people say that with absolutely no self-awareness whatsoeverAs though Black people didn’t exist at the time and were not making these exact points then. There were even some white folks who actually got it. Just because it’s new to you doesn’t mean it’s new.
@@DaraStarrTucker There was more appreciation for music back then without some of the repercussions of present day . I’ve met The Temptations, Shirley Alston Reeves ,Cornell Gunters Coasters and a brief encounter with Little Anthony of the Imperials. They all treated me with a warm respect and we had great conversations! Meeting them all was a dream come true! I had a hotel room next to the Present Platters and I could hear him practicing The Great Pretender! This all happened in Las Vegas back in around 2000 ! These are the new groups representing the great groups of the past and I did not see any animosity about color of any kind. In fact. It was never brought up.
@@dannovack1364 Conversations like this are not about stirring up “animosity.” I’m sure those performers appreciated other talented musicians. And they were glad to be working. These are deeper conversations that belong in the cultural discourse. Doesn’t mean black and white people can’t enjoy playing music together.
I don't understand what the problem is why it's difficult to understand when come to black ppl. If an individual says that something you feel is appreciation makes them uncomfortable Why is it so hard fkr you not to do and I see that its mostly prodominately when its black ppl saying no, stop, & don't. For example, you wouldn't dare disrespect or go in a community where the majority of the group is Asian and wear their sacred kimono in their faces after they've stated no do not. So why the concept so hard to grasp when an african american ask the same? It shouldn't be but it is due to learned patterns passed down through generation & we know through science that evolutionary properties exist in regards to a passed behavior. For example, have ever wonder why most african american do don't deal with dogs that are not their's & tend to run from them if they decide that dog is a threat to their safety. Well generations ago dogs were used to hunt their ancestors & that trait has evolved on its own enough were it's an automatic response for most black ppl. To further prove this there are Indigenous ppl who are prone to alcohol usage because of the passed down generational trauma & as far as evolution their is tribe that hunts underwater & over time they trained themselves to hold their breath for long periods of time fish & now their children are born with those same capabilities w/o being trained to do so.
Incredible video until you listen to Thomas Sowell
Well said