USB Mini: This interface is ANCIENT. It's a limiting choice. It was replaced as a standard because the Mini cable was more likely to fall out than a Micro. And both Mini and Micro ports (not cables) break more than USB C ports. Having any USB 3.0 interface would have been good, but USB C could have allowed PD power, 3.0 data for more expansion with future firmware and devices and so on. A USB C port could easily act as a replacement for the proprietary port as well. If the goal was a USB cable that stays securely without breaking and could not enclose the plug, they should have used the big original USB B, which is old but still has a use, or the similar USB B 3.0. Both of these sit far more securely and the space would have been worth it. It's a little thing, but it's odd. When I see it now, I usually assume the hardware is old. The Mini port was already dated when the original F8 was released and it seems like they decided they didn't want to spend to change any of that part of the old F8 hardware.
@@Bioluminous-CAS On a product of this price, in a world where $25 products can still get USB-C 3.0 ports, avoiding a 3.0 chip with power delivery because of a shortage seems unlikely. They could even just use a USB-C port on the USB 2.0 chip. Given the number of expensive and fancy chips in this $1000, that's probably not the issue. I assume it's about not wanting to pay the costs for either designing and manufacturing a new case (maybe not wanting to toss old cases) or to design/replace existing parts. The case doesn't appear to have changed, and the device is made up of a number of smaller boards and a main board with an FPGA so parts can be swapped out in a new build without upgrading all of it. The costs of making the changes are almost certainly more than the costs of the USB chips. (And for all I know they already have a USB chip that can do 3.0, I couldn't find a photo of the chip) Despite the cost, given how old Mini B is, and given that they could add more functionality with the port, it's something they should find a way to do.
@@kyleolson8977 I read an article by focusrite a while back and why they still use usb 2 tech in their interfaces and they said it’s basically about money. They had to pay more to use usb 3 tech. I forget if it had more to do with licensing fees or the actual hardware itself.
I can’t applaud enough your work ethic and the amount of time that must’ve gone in to this video. Possibly one of the most comprehensible, and in depth video reviews I’ve ever watched. Bravo!
Really enjoy the work you do, Curtis! I just upgraded from a Tascam 70D to the F8n Pro and your videos about the F8n and now the Pro have been an amazing resource and just wanted to say thank you for the work you do!
Hey Curtis! Thanks for all of your videos, you truly have been one of the most helpful and insightful resources. Ive learned so much from your content.
Surprised there isn't a detailed video comparing the SD MixPre-10ii vs Zoom F8n Pro and maybe even a used SD 633. Heck not even a descent review on the SD MixPre-10ii within the past year on UA-cam :-/ Anyway thanks again for another great, informative, and well produced video for us
@@curtisjudd No I didn't mean it in that way Curtis, I just meant on youtube in general. You're my favorite to watch for a reason! Keep up the great work and if anything that was just me talking out loud throwing another video idea out there is all
Great video, Curtis. I’ve been really enjoying my F8n Pro. Some nice upgrades from the original F8. Did some interesting tests recently that you might dig. I was using a Sound Devices MM1 as an external boom mic preamp to take advantage of the analog limiter and also feed the F8 a line level signal. My initial tests seemed like the sound was warmer and more pleasing than the built in preamp so I endured the added weight in my small Orca 28 front pouch. Fast forward over a year and with the new F8n Pro I wanted to make a formal comparison to hopefully lighten the bag. The test: recorded dialogue into the F8nP then brought it into Pro Tools. Added a -20 rms 1khz tone. I then played this back through the speaker to provide a constant sound source and then proceeded to do several recordings with 32bit float and 24bit, with and without limiters using both the internal F8nP preamp and then the MM1. These were all brought back into pro tools with less than 1dB of clip gain to make them comparable across the board. I was amazed that there was no discernible or measurable difference between any of the recordings! Noise levels were less than 1dB different and even zooming into the waveforms showed 99.9% identical waveforms. Conclusion: the F8nP is at least on par with the MM1 for normal preamp performance. Where the MM1 preamp falls in SD’s line up comparatively I do not know. I did not test the sound/effectiveness of the limiters on either as I did not hit them, nor did I provide a loud enough signal to see if there was difference in over driving the preamps. I’ve subsequently removed the MM1 from the bag as it seems of no benefit. My back is happier. :)
Love the 32bit---RAW analogy! I almost never record 32bit on MixPre 10ii, since like you I mostly do corporate dialogue. Great review Curtis as always!
Another great review as always. Frustrating that Zoom still refuses to develop an Android app for their other recent/parallel product offerings, such as the F6.
Am disappointed by the Zoom F Series now. Because the Zoom F8 was such an amazing game changer release, I am not exaggerating at all when I say the Zoom F8 was like the Nikon D90 / Canon 5Dmk2 / Panasonic GH1 / Sony NEX-5 which kicked off the HDSLR Revolution. Those cameras (& their successors) were game changers for the aspiring/student cinematographers, videographers, and such. Likewise the Zoom F8 was revolutionary for any aspiring / semipro / student / indie Sound Mixer. Bringing features and quality of what used to be financially out of reach for them. But what has happened since then? We got the Zoom F8n, but what is the difference between the F8n and F8 today? Almost nothing! (aside from the line/mic I/O options which got tweaked/improved) We got the F4, which was a great step forward for those who don't need 8 ISOs, but then the F4 got sadly discontinued (I wanted a "Zoom F4n"!). So the F4 is now irrelevant to the current F Series lineup. There is the F6, but that was a step backwards overall from the perspective of a PSM. If Zoom wanted a compact/cheaper F8, then they should have done much better than the F6, dropping a couple of XLR inputs if you have to (let the F8 handle recording 5+ channels). Instead, have better outputs (a couple of TA3F for instance, not 3.5mm), have dual recording, keep the bluetooth integrated internally (no dongle!) and get the size down so it can compete directly against the MIxPre3 (for mounting under the camera). Minor things like keeping BNC TC & hirose for power would have been nice too. Then there is the F1/F2/F3, the less I say about them the better, I don't see them being in the same category as the F Series that the F8 created. Now we've got the new F8n Pro, what improvements does this bring over the F8n?? Almost nothing! There is 32bit, which is totally irrelevant for my work (I'd get into trouble if I recorded in the abnormal nonstandard 32bits!!), but they also took a small step backwards by removing the safety track recording. (not a big deal, but if I was going solo, with no rehearsals, and I had a hardwired boom, then I'd run a safety for just and only just Channel 1) So years have gone by, and it makes almost no difference if you buy an old secondhand Zoom F8 or the brand new Zoom F8n Pro. If we compared this with the camera world, there has been almost as many years between the original Zoom F8 release and today as there was between the Panasonic GH1 and the GH5! We should be expecting instead the "Zoom F-GH5" release, not this disappointing "Zoom F8n Pro" release. Sigh. Imagine if the improvement from the F8 to the F8n Pro was as big as the improvements from the GH1 to the GH5! (GH1 vs GH5 are two worlds apart!) The F8n Pro (the "Zoom F-GH5") wouldn't be compared against the MixPre10mk2, but against the Sound Devices 888! (or even a Cantar??) That's the world I dream of. Oh well. But in spite of all of this, the Zoom F8 (& F8n / F8n Pro) remains the best buy you can get at their price point. I guess the best long term effects of the Zoom F8 release, beyond simple its release itself, was that it pushed Sound Devices to respond! Sound Devices did however kinda botch up the initial MixPre release, but to their credit with many firmware updates (and later on, the MixPre Gen2 hardware) they did fix it up and improve the MixPre series, to the point that I'd say that the MixPre series has now caught with the F Series. When it comes down to the question of MixPre10mk2 vs Zoom F8n, if my Sound Devices 8 series recorder broke tomorrow and I had to use one of those two instead, then I'd personally almost always choose the Zoom F8n! Certainly for any bagged job. However, perhaps if it was a sit down job at a Sound Cart, and I full maxed out the MixPre10mk2 with a USB hub (so I could run all at once: X-Keys, full size keyboard, and a Novation Launch Control XL. Or perhaps a Korg nanoKONTROL Studio? Not sure, I own the first one, but haven't tried out either of the nanoKONTROLs yet), all the firmware updates, and an iPad then maaaaybe I'd lean towards the MixPre10mk2 instead of the Zoom F8n?? It is a close contest. (but for a run & gun job working solo from a bag, I'd pick the F8n) As at the end of the day, for all the disappointment I feel that the F Series has gone stagnant, the Zoom F8n still remains at the top of the mountain for being the very best you can get for the price! Next month I'll be booming on a TV Series for a friend who will be using his Zoom F8n (on his Sound Cart, with of course a Zoom F Control) as his primary recorder for the TV Series! Heck, he is even going to be borrowing my own Zoom F8n & F Control so we can run two of each at once! (hooked up together via TC, for automatic stop/start. Plus will feed the mix of the slave F8n into the master F8n, so that *everything* is still being included into main production mix track that's being recorded, and sent to camera / director / AD / script supervisor / etc on set) Because we will for some scenes be having FOURTEEN talent with wireless on them! (plus of course two booms running, for sixteen ISO channels in total) The 2x Zoom F8n is going to handle that like a champ.
If you have Universal Audio interface you could process latency free great noise/room sound reduction with the C-Suite CEDAR plug-in. I just can’t understand how Zoom engineers chose an outdated mini USB interface. As always your review was excellent.
I guess the way to look at 32 bit float, is not a "get out of jail free" card but one that makes it a "difficult to get into jail in the first place" card. And whilst this will add some cost to the overall system, I can see this being adopted for all AD converters in audio applications, as a sort of standard topology. My guess is that this will be all over the place in the coming years!
Probably so! I do think there are still some nuances where recordings where the audio exceeds 0dB substantially doesn't sound quite as natural to me, but overall, super useful.
I appreciate hearing opinion from someone who has really learned the craft. I currently have a zoom f4 and nothing is really wrong with it but the Android app is nice on this also I'm hoping the auto mix is better, probably not though. Also 32 bit float is good to have as an option but you're totally right. It's not something I NEED. The f4 is completely fine and if I upgrade to this the F4 will just be my backup recorder. I like that you're kind of reminding me that I don't have to upgrade.
Good and well balanced review; more or less covered every angle. Love your emphasis on skills, knowledge and personal use cases. Regards, have fun and continue the good work.
Hello Curtis, I love your reviews! Thanks for taking the time to help out your community :) I'm in the market for a new recorder and all was going great until you mentioned that you would go with a Sound Devices Mixpre recorder. Now I'm back at square one haha! I listened to your mixpre ii review and zoom review side by side and honestly they both sound about the same. I feel the zoom was a bit more consistent when recovering soft and loud audio compared to the original audio at -45db. Could you give more detail as to why you would choose the mixpre ii over the F8n pro? I want the next recorder I buy to last without having any of the "aww man, it doesn't come with this???" experience. I understand that no one product can check all the boxes, but I would like to purchase a recorder that can check most of the boxes. Also, what are the main benefits of analog limiters when comparing them to digital? Thanks for your help! 🙏
There are so many differences that I cannot address this fully in a UA-cam comment. However, the short version is this: Both the ZOOM F series (the F3 - F8n Pro, specifically) and the Sound Devices MixPre series are amazing recorders and once you learn how to use them, you can make great recordings from either. My PERSONAL preference is for the MixPre, but there are plenty of capable mixers out there who would argue that they prefer the ZOOM F series and I respect that. Digital limiters, as one example, can raise the noise floor of your recordings while analogue limiters do not. Some people hate touch screens (like on the MixPre) and prefer the larger screen on the F8n Pro. The ZOOM recorders are more power efficient and cost less. The MixPre has a better auto mix feature - though is is a paid plugin - and a real-time noise reduction paid plugin. The list goes on and on with pros and cons for each. In the end, you'll just need make a decision that works best for YOU. But because people don't let me get away with not taking a side, If I'm pressed, I'd choose the MixPre. Incidentally, I own the F3, F6, F8n, F8n Pro, MixPre-3 II and MixPre-10 II. They really are all great recorders.
@@curtisjudd Thanks for the very detailed and informative reply! I guess it's like saying Ferrari and Lamborghini are both great cars and you can be fast in either car. It just comes down to which exhaust sound you prefer haha! Oh ok, gotcha. How does Zoom keep the noise floor so low with digital limiters? Or does the F8n Pro, use both analog and digital limiters? Also, I noticed the Sound Devices MixPre 10 II uses 8 analog preamps . Do more preamps equal better audio quality? Like how more cylinders in a car would equal more horse power? Yeah I can see that, specially when touch screens are small like that, but one could always just use a stylus pen. I like that the zoom offers a lot for it's price. I think the Sound Devices MixPre 10 II used to run $1400? I hope the price comes back down in the future. Haha very true, we could go back and forth on pros and cons for an eternity. Curtis, you always gotta pick a side. Not every company wins a trophy lol!! Just kidding 😂 Thanks again for your input and advice. This has helped me a lot!
Hi Curtis, thanks for the great review. I have been getting more and more into audio over the last year and have found your content an amazing help. I recently got a great deal on a used F8n and a shotgun mic for doing some field recordings, but by the time I have bought a bag, blimp & battery I will be over the £1000 mark. What I have to do now is make good use of what I have, because I'm a lucky man. Maybe, if I paid out £1k for this F8n Pro I would moan about no USB C but it's all relative, my F8n will (without a lottery win) last me for the rest of my life and I'm confident it can, (I still shoot analogue 35mm film 🙂) but I do wonder how quickly it will be obsolete in technology terms compared to my usability terms? Thanks again, you and your family have been a great help and it's much appreciated.
People are still using the Sound Devices 788T on big budget productions. You will surely outgrow your used Zoom F8n purchase before it ever becomes "obsolete"! (and you an go a LONG WAY with the F8n before you outgrow it, you could go a few years deep into a professional Sound Mixing career before you'd genuinely *need* to "upgrade" from it. It is very likely with your non-sound career plans that you will NEVER "outgrow" the F8n)
Defiantly agree with you about the 32-Bit float, but I find my self recording moving marching bands a lot. It is necessary when I'm without a full team. Such a massive moving sound. Thanks, just the video I needed by the UA-camr we all need.
I too am joining the chants that we demand a Zoom F4n! F4n wish list: Mic/Line level on the inputs (without needing to use a 1/4" male cable). Pro Line Level output for the XLR (and perhaps give us extra outputs? 2x TA3F outputs? Not crucial, but would be nice, I use more than 2x outputs now or then). Bluetooth inside it (for the app). L Mount like the F6 (dual L mount perhaps?), instead of the AA battery sled. (but keep hirose!) Make channels 5 & 6 be 2x TA3F line inputs, instead of the proprietary Zoom connector. Maybe a high bright color screen? Keep everything else exactly the same, same size, same placement of everything, same 2x SD cards, same software/UI inside powering the F4n as the F4, etc! These are all fairly modest wishes (not even wishing for any firwmare updates! Such as a noise reduction option, like the MixPre has), which the F4n could have while still keeping itself priced below the Zoom F8n Pro.
Thinking of selling my MixPre 6 II at a profit right now and replacing it with this. I have never been a fan of Zoom, but in many ways this makes more sense and has many useful features. The only thing MixPre has over it is (subjectively) warmer preamps and better headphone amp.
And analogue limiters and a more effective auto mix (though at an additional cost) and noise assist (also an additional cost). But the F8n Pro has several advantages, too, like balanced outputs, slightly better power performance, and a Hirose power input (which only the MixPre-10 has).
Thanks Curtis! I got the Zoom F4 looking at your review, years ago, and I haven't felt the need to upgrade at all, ever since. I use the Zoom proprietary attachment port occasionally with a Zoom EXH-6, allowing me 2 extra tracks when needed (The native 4 are usually enough for my needs). The F8N pro seems amazing, but perhaps overkill for most of us Zoom users (as compared to getting a used Zoom F8/F8N). Glad they gave the F-8 line a 32 bit float upgrade though. I'm hoping they show the same courtesy to the F4 series at some point :)
Rewatching again before dropping $1,100, your work is incredible 👏 for reviews that are industry standard This will be paired with our work horses 🐎 we have a F8N now just $100 difference between pro and previous model Canon C70s, R5 Sony FX30, Sony A7 IV and A7S III
The Android app works with f8n. Ios13 bluetooth setting in the zoom system menu. Firmware 2.4 installed. Bluetooth addon installed. Start pairing on Zoom.
This just in: Curtis says the Zoom F8N Pro is as good as a boat anchor and praises Sound Devices for their wonderful recorders. haha, just kidding. This was a very good review. I thank you on behalf of all of us who watch your detailed gear review videos. Keep up the good work.
Long time F8 (not even the n) user here. As always thanks for the in depth review, you make the best reviews on pro audio no doubt. I still feel like I don't need to upgrade, as I've been setting mic levels for more than 20 years of my professional life and I do that pretty well, this box is a tiny bit more expensive than what they used to cost, and the quality improvement does not seem so radical. What instead strikes me is that they did not change a bit the external form factor: backlit buttons have always been missing, usb port should have been upgraded. Ok for the 32 bits (which I'm not sure any of the editors I work with would know how to handle yet), but everything else seems like a really lazy update fur such a major step up that they felt like calling it a "pro" version.
Thanks Giovanni. I agree. If one is buying today anyway, it is a fine choice, but for most, hardly a compelling reason to sell your older model to upgrade.
Giovanni, Same here apart from the 20 years, been about 7 for me. I think the only thing ive struggled with my f8 is. A lot of my jobs I am on my own so having to set levels & boom & monitor lav mics is tricky. I did notice they added the advanced limiter for the f8 and I only recently used it on a viking film where there was lots of shouting, it definitely saved my bacon a few times but it still feels very digital and bouncy. I think down the line if zoom could introduce analogue limiters before going into the mixer i think zoom will be the one for most as sound devices are just way out my price. I think hats off to Zoom F8 it really has never let me down, but eventually it will be the f8n 👌🏻
Good to see Zoom continuing to up their game. This recorder packs a lot of value into its set of features....but, a clean compromised headphone amp is the wrong corner to cut for gear aimed at recording professionals.
It is usable, just not as nice as those on the Sound Devices recorders. And ZOOM is always aiming to hit a price point that competes strongly against competitors.
I haven't had any issues with Mini USB but I also use very high quality cables made with nicer metal connectors and materials. USB type C doesn't seem more durable but Micro USB was always junk.
Excellent review as always. So the use I would have with this is doing interviews with multiple people sitting close to each other. I just finished a documentary and the automix feature sounds like it would have worked wonders for me rather than all the trial and errors I was doing with mic bleed and ultimately just isolating each mic. It sounds like it would have given me a good starting point and then do whatever post-processing was necessary. This doesn't actually create a mix, but keeps each track separate, right? Also, be a solo producer, having one less thing to worry about with 32-bit would be nice. I get it's not something you can just turn it on and expect great audio, but at least I could concentrated on other things. Especially since I'm also on camera doing the interviewing.
The auto mix is recorded to the mix track but you can still record isolated channels that are not affected by auto mix so you can do the mix manually in post if you prefer.
Not sure if you have a “suggestion box” for future videos, but I’d be really curious to see some tests done for this particular scenario: I’ve been doing some commercial gigs lately with interviews in rooms with poor acoustics (hard walls and often small rooms) and broadband noise (HVAC, etc). If I have the time I’ve tried A/B-ing my DPA 4017B vs my 4018B. Science would say a shotgun in this situation could present some problems with comb filtering, but potential help with the noise. The hyper cardioid should help with acoustics but may capture more noise. What I find interesting is the difference in distance to the subject these mics need. The shotgun capsule is several inches further away to keep the Interference tube out of frame. The past 2 gigs I’ve opted for the shotgun to help with noise but have been really wondering if the signal to noise ratio would be that much better with the hypercardioid since it can get significantly closer in the first place. A side by side comparison test could be a really fascinating look into what mic works best and if that follows the conventions we all know or not. Just some thoughts. Thanks!
Is anyone using the F8n Pro to record live music? I was sold on this device until the very end of this video when Curtis mentioned the +4dbu max input limitation. I do live sound and location recording of a Cappella singers. Some of the solo singers can hit hard. I'm now using a QSC TouchMix16 for both live sound and audio capture. I was loving the idea of adding the F8n Pro for redundancy and to keep the videographers happy with timecode capabilities. Plus the Zoom unit would be my main audio capture device as it can do 32/96 and beyond while the QSC can only do 32/48. A big thank you to Curtis Judd. I've been looking at this unit HARD for many days, watching videos and reading reviews. I'll confess that I was itching to pull the trigger! Now, not so much until I get to the bottom of the input issue.
@@curtisjudd Thank you for your quick response. Have you tried using the inputs set to line as you mention in your video? I looked at the specs on Zooms website and they only give info on the inputs when set to mic, and nothing for line. If using the inputs set for line was a viable workaround, I might still consider this unit. Even though I'm just an audio guy, I'll be watching and learning from your vids. There's much for me to learn here! I can learn what the video people are up against, and what they need from me to make the gig go smoother!
Just because of the backup storage, a strong win to the f8n pro vs the mixpre10 II. Whatever the 'prestige' that you have an SD, also sure...it sounds better. But just once miss some takes on a job because of the lack of backup...and you are out.
I think of trim more like compensation. Not gain. I would not try to run a mic on “line” input. Just use an in line XLR pad. That’s what they are for. You got some in your bag right? The auto mix feature is a nice feature. Automix has been around a long time in live sound reinforcement boardroom situations where maximum gain before feedback is the objective. Each time the number of open mics doubles the overall level has to be reduced 3dB. Besides determining the active channel and attenuating the others they also count the number of open mics so (NOM) that in the event everyone speaks at once the master level is reduced by the proper amount.
Curtis, on the 2nd row at 17:25, that's probably the F8n pro in 24-bit mode, not 32-bit float mode. The limiter doesn't work in 32-bit float mode (or does it?). In any case, it doesn't have a 24-bit mode limiter row.
Hi Stefan, in the F8n Pro, the limiter actually DOES work in 32-bit float mode, which is interesting. And it also still works in 24 and 16 bit modes as well.
23:48 mark Vincent Price. His voice is right there. I'm listening to it with Cheap headphones. It just puzzles me that his voice is so clear. No sound booth here I believe. When you have time give a listen to him also at the 26:50 mark. Thanks Keith Kuhn
So I'm using the pro and I have a question. I created a folder where I want all the sound to go to that folder but I cannot find a way to figure out on how to put the sound in that specific folder. And how can I playback a sound that I recorded. Someone please give me directions and help me.
First to release an affordable recorder with dual SD card slots gets my money. I rarely have issues with clipping but I've had multiple card failures over the years.
great review! if I choose line on the f8n pro (for a very hot mic input) would I be able to choose 48v for that input as well? basically, using line as a pad for a phantom mic?
Hey Curtis! I'm quite curious as to how limiters are available in 32-bit Float mode. How does this work? my presumption is that the digital limiting happens on the main stereo mix but not on the ISO channel files? Any clarification would be appreciated.
The 2 channel F3 comes with a USB-C interface. I'm using one with Diety S-Mic2 shotguns to record local politicians from where I stand at the backs of local municipality meeting rooms. Noise which plagued my attempts to record this with a Zoom H6 is effectively non existent now, unless you count the noise of chairs sliding around. I'm restricted to standing in the back with a video camera but because the Diety mics are so quiet and the F3 is so quiet, I'm getting clear audio of constituents asking questions. Yeah I know anyone can do that if they're in the questioners' faces, but in this case, and why I'm so impressed, the questioners are facing away from me, toward politicians, and 20-40 feet away from me overall. No pass-around audience mics. Just me in the back with Diety shotguns. This tech is head and shoulders (with an exponent) above what I was using. I learned about this stuff from your channel, Curtis, so Thank You.
Cheers for pointing out the near uselessness of 30mins on just the batteries, think that is going to finally steer me towards getting the f6, don’t need a giant portable recorder that really has to be plugged into a giant brick power supply. Could justify it if I was on set just setting up for a full day, but on the move no way.
20:34, well I can see a great use for a 32bit float upgrade from my F8n, I'm a boom operator booming out of a bag, and some takes, perhaps wide shots, i have my arms up above my head, and when actors gets louder it is not possible for me to go down and adjust the gain (because i would probably drop my boom at the same time). I have always used safety tracks for this before, but would be really nice to have 32bit float option for these takes. Too bad the F8n Pro is not in stock anywhere! Edit: It would be cool to hear a recovery of a "off axis" actor talking (for example with a MKH50). Lets say there are 2 actors but only one is in the picture, and the other actor is standing off screen behind the camera. If its not possible for me to swing the boom between them during the takes, the audio gets super off axis, how would that sound if recovered? Any additional noise floor on that? (i always move the lav mics out of the clothes from the actor off screen in these circumstances, but would be nice to know what happens with the audio file of the boom)
If you boost the levels in post for the off-axis line, you'll pick up a fair bit more ambient noise simply because the microphone is so much farther away.
32bit only helps in three situations. First, if you set the gain 30 or 40dB lower than what would provide good digital audio with a great amount of headroom, so you get to hear the Ad converter quantization noise, especially when raised by a digital limiter. Second, if you set the gain 20 dB higher than what would achieve a good recording, so you clip the AD converter even though reducing the gain 20 or even 30dB would not reduce sound quality at all, since the thermal noise of the mic is many dBs above the quantization noise. Third, if you actually need to capture the entire dynamic range of a microphone. In 24bit recorders, the first situation never really happened because nobody records at -50dB, even if the sounds are low level. The second situation happened is some cases when recording too hot due to unpredictable situations, so recorders added a feature to send the signal to another track at lower gain for protection. The third situation was not something anyone actually asked for. 32bit will not reduce the noise floor of the mic, it will not improve the mic maximum SPL and it will not change the reality of primary source to secondary source and ambient sound, so it will not fix mic placement errors.
Very interesting. In this case when the clipped audio was restored, to my ears it still didn't sound nearly as good as the sample recorded at lower level. So although the 32 bit can get you out of trouble, it's not a feature I would ever want to use. In fact I'd much prefer the safety track function of the two predecessors. (By the way, I think it's track 1 and 5 rather than 1 and 4: 1-5, 2-6, 3-7, 4-8). Let me ask, do I understand it correctly that the Android app only works with the F8n Pro and not with the F8n and F8? If so, do you have any info on why?
Good job! Im thinking of upgrade my F8n to Pro version because Im recording loud cars. So I never know how loud exhaust will be so 32bit... sounds good to me! :)
This was an extremely helpful and comprehensive review. Thank you for doing this. I'm in the process of recording monologue audio for my documentary. I currently have an MKH416 shotgun mic, but I need more of the bass power of a cardioid mic. I'm looking to use the Norton TLM103 with the Zoom f8n Pro. How well do you believe a mic of that kind would work with this recorder?
OK... But how the gain is implemented in 24-bit mode? Is it still digital? That would have to result in big increase in noise. That really make no sense to me.
I am possibly buying a F8n this week for a good deal. Should I cancel and go straight to the Pro? or is the difference not enough to justify that? I am an amateur mixer, but that 32-bit feature sounds nice when recording car exhaust notes
Looks like the F8n Pro would be the best upgrade for me from my MixPre 3 ii right now. Though as you point out, it wouldn't make my recordings sound better in 99% of what I do with it. That said, (exaggerating due to my personal peeves) I'm appalled that it has a USB mini jack not USB C! I don't care if it does nothing but act as a USB 2.0 interface, I'm still going to complain about any USB port on a new product that isn't C.
Hey Curtis Good day! I’m looking at upgrading from MixPre-3 (mark i) to F8n Pro due to cost to input ratio. One thing I love about the mix-pre is the audio interface through usb-c and I notice the f8n has an older style usb port. Does the f8n pro appear to equal the mixpre ii series as an audio interface? are there any drawbacks of this older usb port on the f8n pro?
Hey AJ, the connector doesn’t seem to affect the performance of the recorder. But the F8 series in general do require you to manually go to audio interface mode every time you start it up vs. the MixPre which just connects automatically.
Any guess as to when we’ll see 32 bit float in cameras? Seems like resolution wars are maxed out and dynamic range is getting closer by the month. Audio could be a point of differentiation.
It's amazing how great audio is getting with in reach of the common man. Check out the RØDECaster Pro 2. EIN -131-5. RØDE say adding an in line preamp will actually add noise.
Wait so 1 couldn't destort tape then? I was a kid when I used kaset and it mostly was my toys i recorded into the tape recorders so I don't recall if I ever clipped the tapes. Also I wasn't as nitpicky and expecting Sound Devices sound as now. lol
Curtis. Thanks for the video. I own several Zoom products including an F8n. One great advantage of 32 bit float, which I have learned from experience, is 32 bit float is a project saver when the mic input levels are unpredictable and could be very different. I just recorded an event like a graduation where some speakers were really loud with clapping right in front of the mic, which would have clipped the audio. Only to be followed by another speaker that you couldnt hear, and I needed to add 35 dB of gain to bring up to a normal speaking level. If I had used my F8n, I would have lost all of the audio. Thanks again for the video!
32bit float will soon be even a end user standard, recording everything in 32bit has no downside. Just like cameras once you are comfortable working in RAW you don't go back.
I think there is a case where there is an exception: If a recording exceeds 0dBFS by a large amount, it didn't sound as natural to me as when the trim was set so that peaks weren't substantially above 0dBFS. But it is a nice tool to prevent clipping.
Hello Curtis! So i'm a beginner and in recent days I went into the rabbit hole with my research and realized I want to purchase a audio recorder and be done with it for years. As I would rather spend extra money now to get a little bit of future-proofing so: I was looking especially into Zoom F6 and Zoom F8n PRO. My first concern is as I don't have any direct pro experience as a Boom op/Sound mixer, I was wondering if the extra budget to get the F8n would be worth it or should I settle with F6 for now to see where it goes? Just as a note, I'm in a small filming crew and also the only sound related guy in the group, we deals with a lot of field recording and interviews most of which are personal/uni project (we do plan to take paid jobs in the future as well)
The F8n Pro is far more future proof with its balanced outputs and massively better ergonomics for location sound work where there’s a dedicated sound person.
Engineering is the art of compromise, so the question of a clear-cut opinion on which of two devices is better is meaningless unless one specifices better for what.
USB Mini: This interface is ANCIENT. It's a limiting choice. It was replaced as a standard because the Mini cable was more likely to fall out than a Micro. And both Mini and Micro ports (not cables) break more than USB C ports.
Having any USB 3.0 interface would have been good, but USB C could have allowed PD power, 3.0 data for more expansion with future firmware and devices and so on. A USB C port could easily act as a replacement for the proprietary port as well.
If the goal was a USB cable that stays securely without breaking and could not enclose the plug, they should have used the big original USB B, which is old but still has a use, or the similar USB B 3.0. Both of these sit far more securely and the space would have been worth it.
It's a little thing, but it's odd. When I see it now, I usually assume the hardware is old. The Mini port was already dated when the original F8 was released and it seems like they decided they didn't want to spend to change any of that part of the old F8 hardware.
@@Bioluminous-CAS Definitely not relevant. Very much agree that it's just laziness/bean counters that resulted in the micro-USB connection.
@@Bioluminous-CAS On a product of this price, in a world where $25 products can still get USB-C 3.0 ports, avoiding a 3.0 chip with power delivery because of a shortage seems unlikely.
They could even just use a USB-C port on the USB 2.0 chip. Given the number of expensive and fancy chips in this $1000, that's probably not the issue.
I assume it's about not wanting to pay the costs for either designing and manufacturing a new case (maybe not wanting to toss old cases) or to design/replace existing parts.
The case doesn't appear to have changed, and the device is made up of a number of smaller boards and a main board with an FPGA so parts can be swapped out in a new build without upgrading all of it. The costs of making the changes are almost certainly more than the costs of the USB chips. (And for all I know they already have a USB chip that can do 3.0, I couldn't find a photo of the chip)
Despite the cost, given how old Mini B is, and given that they could add more functionality with the port, it's something they should find a way to do.
Yes, weird choice.
@@kyleolson8977 I read an article by focusrite a while back and why they still use usb 2 tech in their interfaces and they said it’s basically about money. They had to pay more to use usb 3 tech. I forget if it had more to do with licensing fees or the actual hardware itself.
Doesn't the smaller F3 use USB-C and allow us to take advantage of these benefits like PD power?
I can’t applaud enough your work ethic and the amount of time that must’ve gone in to this video. Possibly one of the most comprehensible, and in depth video reviews I’ve ever watched. Bravo!
Thanks!
Really enjoy the work you do, Curtis! I just upgraded from a Tascam 70D to the F8n Pro and your videos about the F8n and now the Pro have been an amazing resource and just wanted to say thank you for the work you do!
Thanks Kevin and happy recording!
Hi Kevin,
Looking to make the same move, how much of a difference are you finding? Worth the jump?
Good content as always.
Davinci Resolve supports 32-bit float as well. I think that software deserves mentioning among "the main editing apps"
davinci has upped the game and is probably the fasted growing one. more an more people leave fcpx and especially adobes crash show :D i certainly did
@@philippscheithauer Adobe is a sinking ship
Yes, and DaVinci Resolve. I wish it wouldn’t crash so much on my Mac.
@@curtisjudd Are you running the beta version of Resolve? It never crashes on my M1 Macbook.
@@arnoldsnodgrass2953 No, the general release on an Intel Mac Pro.
Hey Curtis! Thanks for all of your videos, you truly have been one of the most helpful and insightful resources. Ive learned so much from your content.
Thanks Henry!
Awesome review, Curtis! I bought the F8n Pro. As a one man band, the 32-bit float and dual SD card recording give me peace of mind.
👍 Happy recording!
Surprised there isn't a detailed video comparing the SD MixPre-10ii vs Zoom F8n Pro and maybe even a used SD 633.
Heck not even a descent review on the SD MixPre-10ii within the past year on UA-cam :-/
Anyway thanks again for another great, informative, and well produced video for us
Sorry, I cover as much as I can given the time I have. 🙏
@@curtisjudd No I didn't mean it in that way Curtis, I just meant on youtube in general. You're my favorite to watch for a reason! Keep up the great work and if anything that was just me talking out loud throwing another video idea out there is all
@@tvm2209 👍
I've been looking forward to this review! Thank you for also putting your summary up front, I think it makes for much clearer communication.
You are most welcome!
Supply chain issues for Mixpre 6 + this recorder coming out, may have just made this recorder win my purchase. Thank you for the Preamp analysis!
You're welcome and happy recording!
What a hero to have a summary in the beginning!
👍
Sold my H8 and today I received the H8n Pro. Now it's time to watch your review to learn this tool. Thanks!
Happy recording!
Great video, Curtis. I’ve been really enjoying my F8n Pro. Some nice upgrades from the original F8.
Did some interesting tests recently that you might dig. I was using a Sound Devices MM1 as an external boom mic preamp to take advantage of the analog limiter and also feed the F8 a line level signal. My initial tests seemed like the sound was warmer and more pleasing than the built in preamp so I endured the added weight in my small Orca 28 front pouch. Fast forward over a year and with the new F8n Pro I wanted to make a formal comparison to hopefully lighten the bag.
The test: recorded dialogue into the F8nP then brought it into Pro Tools. Added a -20 rms 1khz tone. I then played this back through the speaker to provide a constant sound source and then proceeded to do several recordings with 32bit float and 24bit, with and without limiters using both the internal F8nP preamp and then the MM1. These were all brought back into pro tools with less than 1dB of clip gain to make them comparable across the board.
I was amazed that there was no discernible or measurable difference between any of the recordings! Noise levels were less than 1dB different and even zooming into the waveforms showed 99.9% identical waveforms.
Conclusion: the F8nP is at least on par with the MM1 for normal preamp performance. Where the MM1 preamp falls in SD’s line up comparatively I do not know. I did not test the sound/effectiveness of the limiters on either as I did not hit them, nor did I provide a loud enough signal to see if there was difference in over driving the preamps.
I’ve subsequently removed the MM1 from the bag as it seems of no benefit. My back is happier. :)
Nice work and thanks for sharing! Yes, keeping the bag light is a good strategy!
Love the 32bit---RAW analogy! I almost never record 32bit on MixPre 10ii, since like you I mostly do corporate dialogue. Great review Curtis as always!
Thanks DIT Media!
Another great review as always. Frustrating that Zoom still refuses to develop an Android app for their other recent/parallel product offerings, such as the F6.
Thanks FocusPulling.
Wait... 21:59 No angels singing? Darn it! :) As always, great video sir!
Hahaha! Thanks Kevin!
Am disappointed by the Zoom F Series now.
Because the Zoom F8 was such an amazing game changer release, I am not exaggerating at all when I say the Zoom F8 was like the Nikon D90 / Canon 5Dmk2 / Panasonic GH1 / Sony NEX-5 which kicked off the HDSLR Revolution.
Those cameras (& their successors) were game changers for the aspiring/student cinematographers, videographers, and such.
Likewise the Zoom F8 was revolutionary for any aspiring / semipro / student / indie Sound Mixer. Bringing features and quality of what used to be financially out of reach for them.
But what has happened since then? We got the Zoom F8n, but what is the difference between the F8n and F8 today? Almost nothing! (aside from the line/mic I/O options which got tweaked/improved)
We got the F4, which was a great step forward for those who don't need 8 ISOs, but then the F4 got sadly discontinued (I wanted a "Zoom F4n"!). So the F4 is now irrelevant to the current F Series lineup. There is the F6, but that was a step backwards overall from the perspective of a PSM.
If Zoom wanted a compact/cheaper F8, then they should have done much better than the F6, dropping a couple of XLR inputs if you have to (let the F8 handle recording 5+ channels). Instead, have better outputs (a couple of TA3F for instance, not 3.5mm), have dual recording, keep the bluetooth integrated internally (no dongle!) and get the size down so it can compete directly against the MIxPre3 (for mounting under the camera). Minor things like keeping BNC TC & hirose for power would have been nice too.
Then there is the F1/F2/F3, the less I say about them the better, I don't see them being in the same category as the F Series that the F8 created.
Now we've got the new F8n Pro, what improvements does this bring over the F8n?? Almost nothing! There is 32bit, which is totally irrelevant for my work (I'd get into trouble if I recorded in the abnormal nonstandard 32bits!!), but they also took a small step backwards by removing the safety track recording. (not a big deal, but if I was going solo, with no rehearsals, and I had a hardwired boom, then I'd run a safety for just and only just Channel 1)
So years have gone by, and it makes almost no difference if you buy an old secondhand Zoom F8 or the brand new Zoom F8n Pro.
If we compared this with the camera world, there has been almost as many years between the original Zoom F8 release and today as there was between the Panasonic GH1 and the GH5! We should be expecting instead the "Zoom F-GH5" release, not this disappointing "Zoom F8n Pro" release. Sigh.
Imagine if the improvement from the F8 to the F8n Pro was as big as the improvements from the GH1 to the GH5! (GH1 vs GH5 are two worlds apart!) The F8n Pro (the "Zoom F-GH5") wouldn't be compared against the MixPre10mk2, but against the Sound Devices 888! (or even a Cantar??) That's the world I dream of.
Oh well. But in spite of all of this, the Zoom F8 (& F8n / F8n Pro) remains the best buy you can get at their price point.
I guess the best long term effects of the Zoom F8 release, beyond simple its release itself, was that it pushed Sound Devices to respond! Sound Devices did however kinda botch up the initial MixPre release, but to their credit with many firmware updates (and later on, the MixPre Gen2 hardware) they did fix it up and improve the MixPre series, to the point that I'd say that the MixPre series has now caught with the F Series.
When it comes down to the question of MixPre10mk2 vs Zoom F8n, if my Sound Devices 8 series recorder broke tomorrow and I had to use one of those two instead, then I'd personally almost always choose the Zoom F8n! Certainly for any bagged job.
However, perhaps if it was a sit down job at a Sound Cart, and I full maxed out the MixPre10mk2 with a USB hub (so I could run all at once: X-Keys, full size keyboard, and a Novation Launch Control XL. Or perhaps a Korg nanoKONTROL Studio? Not sure, I own the first one, but haven't tried out either of the nanoKONTROLs yet), all the firmware updates, and an iPad then maaaaybe I'd lean towards the MixPre10mk2 instead of the Zoom F8n?? It is a close contest. (but for a run & gun job working solo from a bag, I'd pick the F8n)
As at the end of the day, for all the disappointment I feel that the F Series has gone stagnant, the Zoom F8n still remains at the top of the mountain for being the very best you can get for the price!
Next month I'll be booming on a TV Series for a friend who will be using his Zoom F8n (on his Sound Cart, with of course a Zoom F Control) as his primary recorder for the TV Series!
Heck, he is even going to be borrowing my own Zoom F8n & F Control so we can run two of each at once! (hooked up together via TC, for automatic stop/start. Plus will feed the mix of the slave F8n into the master F8n, so that *everything* is still being included into main production mix track that's being recorded, and sent to camera / director / AD / script supervisor / etc on set)
Because we will for some scenes be having FOURTEEN talent with wireless on them! (plus of course two booms running, for sixteen ISO channels in total) The 2x Zoom F8n is going to handle that like a champ.
I agree. Thanks David.
If you have Universal Audio interface you could process latency free great noise/room sound reduction with the C-Suite CEDAR plug-in. I just can’t understand how Zoom engineers chose an outdated mini USB interface. As always your review was excellent.
Thanks Alex. Yes, the Apollos are nice with very little latency.
Great review! another difference with MixPre 10 is the double SD card record in F8n Pro!
Indeed 👍
Great as always. Particularly good commentary on usefulness/necessity of 32-bit float dual analog to digital feature.
Thanks Casey!
I guess the way to look at 32 bit float, is not a "get out of jail free" card but one that makes it a "difficult to get into jail in the first place" card. And whilst this will add some cost to the overall system, I can see this being adopted for all AD converters in audio applications, as a sort of standard topology. My guess is that this will be all over the place in the coming years!
Probably so! I do think there are still some nuances where recordings where the audio exceeds 0dB substantially doesn't sound quite as natural to me, but overall, super useful.
I appreciate hearing opinion from someone who has really learned the craft. I currently have a zoom f4 and nothing is really wrong with it but the Android app is nice on this also I'm hoping the auto mix is better, probably not though. Also 32 bit float is good to have as an option but you're totally right. It's not something I NEED. The f4 is completely fine and if I upgrade to this the F4 will just be my backup recorder. I like that you're kind of reminding me that I don't have to upgrade.
No need to upgrade. 😀
Your audio also sounds impeccably clear.
Keith Kuhn
🎙
Good and well balanced review; more or less covered every angle.
Love your emphasis on skills, knowledge and personal use cases.
Regards, have fun and continue the good work.
Thanks KFH DK.
your channel is pure gold! thanks for the great video!
Thanks!
The best channel ever in UA-cam thank you so much
Thanks.
So many answers to questions I've been asking myself! You just got a new subscriber. 🙏🏾
Glad it was helpful. Happy recording!
Curtis, please continue doing of what you're doing! You're simply awesome!
Thanks, Alex. 🙏
Hello Curtis, I love your reviews! Thanks for taking the time to help out your community :) I'm in the market for a new recorder and all was going great until you mentioned that you would go with a Sound Devices Mixpre recorder. Now I'm back at square one haha! I listened to your mixpre ii review and zoom review side by side and honestly they both sound about the same. I feel the zoom was a bit more consistent when recovering soft and loud audio compared to the original audio at -45db. Could you give more detail as to why you would choose the mixpre ii over the F8n pro? I want the next recorder I buy to last without having any of the "aww man, it doesn't come with this???" experience. I understand that no one product can check all the boxes, but I would like to purchase a recorder that can check most of the boxes. Also, what are the main benefits of analog limiters when comparing them to digital? Thanks for your help! 🙏
There are so many differences that I cannot address this fully in a UA-cam comment. However, the short version is this: Both the ZOOM F series (the F3 - F8n Pro, specifically) and the Sound Devices MixPre series are amazing recorders and once you learn how to use them, you can make great recordings from either. My PERSONAL preference is for the MixPre, but there are plenty of capable mixers out there who would argue that they prefer the ZOOM F series and I respect that. Digital limiters, as one example, can raise the noise floor of your recordings while analogue limiters do not. Some people hate touch screens (like on the MixPre) and prefer the larger screen on the F8n Pro. The ZOOM recorders are more power efficient and cost less. The MixPre has a better auto mix feature - though is is a paid plugin - and a real-time noise reduction paid plugin. The list goes on and on with pros and cons for each. In the end, you'll just need make a decision that works best for YOU. But because people don't let me get away with not taking a side, If I'm pressed, I'd choose the MixPre. Incidentally, I own the F3, F6, F8n, F8n Pro, MixPre-3 II and MixPre-10 II. They really are all great recorders.
@@curtisjudd Thanks for the very detailed and informative reply! I guess it's like saying Ferrari and Lamborghini are both great cars and you can be fast in either car. It just comes down to which exhaust sound you prefer haha! Oh ok, gotcha. How does Zoom keep the noise floor so low with digital limiters? Or does the F8n Pro, use both analog and digital limiters? Also, I noticed the Sound Devices MixPre 10 II uses 8 analog preamps . Do more preamps equal better audio quality? Like how more cylinders in a car would equal more horse power? Yeah I can see that, specially when touch screens are small like that, but one could always just use a stylus pen. I like that the zoom offers a lot for it's price. I think the Sound Devices MixPre 10 II used to run $1400? I hope the price comes back down in the future. Haha very true, we could go back and forth on pros and cons for an eternity. Curtis, you always gotta pick a side. Not every company wins a trophy lol!! Just kidding 😂 Thanks again for your input and advice. This has helped me a lot!
Looks pretty cool
👍
I'll stick with my F8N for now but this comparison was very informative and interesting. Thanks for this.
Thanks Chris.
Curtis, that earthworks mic sounds amazing with your voice, amazing review as always, thank you!!!
Thanks Michael.
Hi Curtis, thanks for the great review. I have been getting more and more into audio over the last year and have found your content an amazing help. I recently got a great deal on a used F8n and a shotgun mic for doing some field recordings, but by the time I have bought a bag, blimp & battery I will be over the £1000 mark. What I have to do now is make good use of what I have, because I'm a lucky man.
Maybe, if I paid out £1k for this F8n Pro I would moan about no USB C but it's all relative, my F8n will (without a lottery win) last me for the rest of my life and I'm confident it can, (I still shoot analogue 35mm film 🙂) but I do wonder how quickly it will be obsolete in technology terms compared to my usability terms?
Thanks again, you and your family have been a great help and it's much appreciated.
Thanks Andy. Happy recording with your new kit!
People are still using the Sound Devices 788T on big budget productions.
You will surely outgrow your used Zoom F8n purchase before it ever becomes "obsolete"! (and you an go a LONG WAY with the F8n before you outgrow it, you could go a few years deep into a professional Sound Mixing career before you'd genuinely *need* to "upgrade" from it. It is very likely with your non-sound career plans that you will NEVER "outgrow" the F8n)
Defiantly agree with you about the 32-Bit float, but I find my self recording moving marching bands a lot. It is necessary when I'm without a full team. Such a massive moving sound. Thanks, just the video I needed by the UA-camr we all need.
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Great review. Thanks for putting out such valuable content.
On another note: dear Zoom, I just want an updated F4. Is that too much to ask?
Thanks Daniel. And I agree, an F4 with a better screen would be really nice.
I too am joining the chants that we demand a Zoom F4n!
F4n wish list:
Mic/Line level on the inputs (without needing to use a 1/4" male cable).
Pro Line Level output for the XLR (and perhaps give us extra outputs? 2x TA3F outputs? Not crucial, but would be nice, I use more than 2x outputs now or then).
Bluetooth inside it (for the app).
L Mount like the F6 (dual L mount perhaps?), instead of the AA battery sled. (but keep hirose!)
Make channels 5 & 6 be 2x TA3F line inputs, instead of the proprietary Zoom connector.
Maybe a high bright color screen?
Keep everything else exactly the same, same size, same placement of everything, same 2x SD cards, same software/UI inside powering the F4n as the F4, etc!
These are all fairly modest wishes (not even wishing for any firwmare updates! Such as a noise reduction option, like the MixPre has), which the F4n could have while still keeping itself priced below the Zoom F8n Pro.
Thinking of selling my MixPre 6 II at a profit right now and replacing it with this. I have never been a fan of Zoom, but in many ways this makes more sense and has many useful features. The only thing MixPre has over it is (subjectively) warmer preamps and better headphone amp.
And analogue limiters and a more effective auto mix (though at an additional cost) and noise assist (also an additional cost). But the F8n Pro has several advantages, too, like balanced outputs, slightly better power performance, and a Hirose power input (which only the MixPre-10 has).
Curtis thanks again for this review and answers all my questions
👍
Some of the best content on UA-cam. Thanks Curtis!
Thanks PopK.
Thanks Curtis! I got the Zoom F4 looking at your review, years ago, and I haven't felt the need to upgrade at all, ever since. I use the Zoom proprietary attachment port occasionally with a Zoom EXH-6, allowing me 2 extra tracks when needed (The native 4 are usually enough for my needs). The F8N pro seems amazing, but perhaps overkill for most of us Zoom users (as compared to getting a used Zoom F8/F8N). Glad they gave the F-8 line a 32 bit float upgrade though. I'm hoping they show the same courtesy to the F4 series at some point :)
Yes, I’d like to see a new version of the F4 back, too.
Good video, as always, Curtis. Time for Sound Devices to sharpen its prices.
Thanks Andrew.
Hopefully without any cuts to features/performance/advancements though
Rewatching again before dropping $1,100, your work is incredible 👏 for reviews that are industry standard
This will be paired with our work horses 🐎 we have a F8N now just $100 difference between pro and previous model
Canon C70s, R5
Sony FX30, Sony A7 IV and A7S III
I think you’ll find the F8n Pro to be a nice addition to your kit 👍
Excellent indepth review of this new Zoom F8n Pro.
🙏
premiere.. finalcut......*cough* resolve...
Great review once again Curtis, thank you! Device looks really good
Yes, also Resolve.
The Android app works with f8n. Ios13 bluetooth setting in the zoom system menu. Firmware 2.4 installed. Bluetooth addon installed. Start pairing on Zoom.
👍
This just in:
Curtis says the Zoom F8N Pro is as good as a boat anchor and praises Sound Devices for their wonderful recorders.
haha, just kidding. This was a very good review. I thank you on behalf of all of us who watch your detailed gear review videos. Keep up the good work.
Every bit as useful as a boat anchor 👍
Extraordinary review. Not only informative but enjoyable.
Thanks Ananda Garden.
Long time F8 (not even the n) user here.
As always thanks for the in depth review, you make the best reviews on pro audio no doubt.
I still feel like I don't need to upgrade, as I've been setting mic levels for more than 20 years of my professional life and I do that pretty well, this box is a tiny bit more expensive than what they used to cost, and the quality improvement does not seem so radical.
What instead strikes me is that they did not change a bit the external form factor: backlit buttons have always been missing, usb port should have been upgraded.
Ok for the 32 bits (which I'm not sure any of the editors I work with would know how to handle yet), but everything else seems like a really lazy update fur such a major step up that they felt like calling it a "pro" version.
Thanks Giovanni. I agree. If one is buying today anyway, it is a fine choice, but for most, hardly a compelling reason to sell your older model to upgrade.
Giovanni,
Same here apart from the 20 years, been about 7 for me. I think the only thing ive struggled with my f8 is. A lot of my jobs I am on my own so having to set levels & boom & monitor lav mics is tricky. I did notice they added the advanced limiter for the f8 and I only recently used it on a viking film where there was lots of shouting, it definitely saved my bacon a few times but it still feels very digital and bouncy. I think down the line if zoom could introduce analogue limiters before going into the mixer i think zoom will be the one for most as sound devices are just way out my price. I think hats off to Zoom F8 it really has never let me down, but eventually it will be the f8n 👌🏻
Good to see Zoom continuing to up their game. This recorder packs a lot of value into its set of features....but, a clean compromised headphone amp is the wrong corner to cut for gear aimed at recording professionals.
It is usable, just not as nice as those on the Sound Devices recorders. And ZOOM is always aiming to hit a price point that competes strongly against competitors.
I haven't had any issues with Mini USB but I also use very high quality cables made with nicer metal connectors and materials. USB type C doesn't seem more durable but Micro USB was always junk.
Yeah.
will zoom even have noise reduction plugins?
No idea. I have my doubts.
Excellent review as always. So the use I would have with this is doing interviews with multiple people sitting close to each other. I just finished a documentary and the automix feature sounds like it would have worked wonders for me rather than all the trial and errors I was doing with mic bleed and ultimately just isolating each mic. It sounds like it would have given me a good starting point and then do whatever post-processing was necessary. This doesn't actually create a mix, but keeps each track separate, right?
Also, be a solo producer, having one less thing to worry about with 32-bit would be nice. I get it's not something you can just turn it on and expect great audio, but at least I could concentrated on other things. Especially since I'm also on camera doing the interviewing.
The auto mix is recorded to the mix track but you can still record isolated channels that are not affected by auto mix so you can do the mix manually in post if you prefer.
The automix is only applied to the LR mix, the ISOs are untouched. (you should always record ISOs as well!)
Thank You for another professional review
👍
Any rumors of release date for a 3rd version of mixPre and new features (dual card slots, iOS app gain control, etc) ?
Nope
great review as always!! Keep it up!
Thanks!
Not sure if you have a “suggestion box” for future videos, but I’d be really curious to see some tests done for this particular scenario:
I’ve been doing some commercial gigs lately with interviews in rooms with poor acoustics (hard walls and often small rooms) and broadband noise (HVAC, etc). If I have the time I’ve tried A/B-ing my DPA 4017B vs my 4018B. Science would say a shotgun in this situation could present some problems with comb filtering, but potential help with the noise. The hyper cardioid should help with acoustics but may capture more noise. What I find interesting is the difference in distance to the subject these mics need. The shotgun capsule is several inches further away to keep the Interference tube out of frame. The past 2 gigs I’ve opted for the shotgun to help with noise but have been really wondering if the signal to noise ratio would be that much better with the hypercardioid since it can get significantly closer in the first place.
A side by side comparison test could be a really fascinating look into what mic works best and if that follows the conventions we all know or not.
Just some thoughts. Thanks!
Please send your 4018B to me with all haste and I'm happy to do the comparison. 😉 Just kidding. Fine idea, but I don't have a 4018b on hand.
Is anyone using the F8n Pro to record live music? I was sold on this device until the very end of this video when Curtis mentioned the +4dbu max input limitation. I do live sound and location recording of a Cappella singers. Some of the solo singers can hit hard. I'm now using a QSC TouchMix16 for both live sound and audio capture.
I was loving the idea of adding the F8n Pro for redundancy and to keep the videographers happy with timecode capabilities. Plus the Zoom unit would be my main audio capture device as it can do 32/96 and beyond while the QSC can only do 32/48.
A big thank you to Curtis Judd. I've been looking at this unit HARD for many days, watching videos and reading reviews. I'll confess that I was itching to pull the trigger! Now, not so much until I get to the bottom of the input issue.
Thanks, I’ll be interested to hear from anyone who uses it to record music.
@@curtisjudd Thank you for your quick response. Have you tried using the inputs set to line as you mention in your video? I looked at the specs on Zooms website and they only give info on the inputs when set to mic, and nothing for line. If using the inputs set for line was a viable workaround, I might still consider this unit.
Even though I'm just an audio guy, I'll be watching and learning from your vids. There's much for me to learn here! I can learn what the video people are up against, and what they need from me to make the gig go smoother!
@@evensteve284 My understanding is that the max input level when set to line is +24dBu.
@@curtisjudd Good to know. Thanks.
Just because of the backup storage, a strong win to the f8n pro vs the mixpre10 II. Whatever the 'prestige' that you have an SD, also sure...it sounds better. But just once miss some takes on a job because of the lack of backup...and you are out.
Fair point.
Super detailed and helpful. Thanks!
Thanks!
This is a great channel.
Thanks
This was very educational about 32bit float !!!
Glad you found it helpful!
Thanks for the video.
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I think of trim more like compensation. Not gain.
I would not try to run a mic on “line” input. Just use an in line XLR pad. That’s what they are for. You got some in your bag right?
The auto mix feature is a nice feature. Automix has been around a long time in live sound reinforcement boardroom situations where maximum gain before feedback is the objective. Each time the number of open mics doubles the overall level has to be reduced 3dB. Besides determining the active channel and attenuating the others they also count the number of open mics so (NOM) that in the event everyone speaks at once the master level is reduced by the proper amount.
In the Zoom F8 and F8n, trim = gain. And I normally wouldn't advocate for using the line input setting with a microphone except in extreme cases.
Curtis, on the 2nd row at 17:25, that's probably the F8n pro in 24-bit mode, not 32-bit float mode. The limiter doesn't work in 32-bit float mode (or does it?). In any case, it doesn't have a 24-bit mode limiter row.
Hi Stefan, in the F8n Pro, the limiter actually DOES work in 32-bit float mode, which is interesting. And it also still works in 24 and 16 bit modes as well.
Thank you for the excellent review.
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Thank you for your review :) you are the best !!!
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23:48 mark
Vincent Price.
His voice is right there.
I'm listening to it with Cheap headphones.
It just puzzles me that his voice is so clear.
No sound booth here I believe. When you have time give a listen to him also at the 26:50
mark.
Thanks
Keith Kuhn
Vincent Price has a treasure of a voice!
@@curtisjudd
He truly does
So I'm using the pro and I have a question. I created a folder where I want all the sound to go to that folder but I cannot find a way to figure out on how to put the sound in that specific folder. And how can I playback a sound that I recorded. Someone please give me directions and help me.
Thank you Curtis for the very nice review of this product. Do you have an impression how this product acts when it gets some RF interference?
I have not experienced any issues with RF interference with the F8n Pro (or the previous iterations of F8).
@@curtisjudd Thnx Curtis.👍
Hi everybody.. is it possible to put a Lavalier Mic in the zoom f8 pro ? - thanks for the answer.
First to release an affordable recorder with dual SD card slots gets my money. I rarely have issues with clipping but I've had multiple card failures over the years.
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All the Zoom F8 series (and the F4 as well) have dual SD card slots.
Great review! Thanks!
Thanks 👍
Im here for the reviews but most importantly the opening theme
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great review!
if I choose line on the f8n pro (for a very hot mic input) would I be able to choose 48v for that input as well? basically, using line as a pad for a phantom mic?
Yes
Hey Curtis! I'm quite curious as to how limiters are available in 32-bit Float mode. How does this work? my presumption is that the digital limiting happens on the main stereo mix but not on the ISO channel files? Any clarification would be appreciated.
Never thought I’ll be missin your: testing :))
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The 2 channel F3 comes with a USB-C interface. I'm using one with Diety S-Mic2 shotguns to record local politicians from where I stand at the backs of local municipality meeting rooms. Noise which plagued my attempts to record this with a Zoom H6 is effectively non existent now, unless you count the noise of chairs sliding around. I'm restricted to standing in the back with a video camera but because the Diety mics are so quiet and the F3 is so quiet, I'm getting clear audio of constituents asking questions. Yeah I know anyone can do that if they're in the questioners' faces, but in this case, and why I'm so impressed, the questioners are facing away from me, toward politicians, and 20-40 feet away from me overall. No pass-around audience mics. Just me in the back with Diety shotguns. This tech is head and shoulders (with an exponent) above what I was using. I learned about this stuff from your channel, Curtis, so Thank You.
Thanks for sharing, Jim! Happy recording!
It's always cool to hear other people's use cases, thanks for sharing! :)
I'd kinda like to tryout an F3 myself if only it 24bit and faders :-(
Cheers for pointing out the near uselessness of 30mins on just the batteries, think that is going to finally steer me towards getting the f6, don’t need a giant portable recorder that really has to be plugged into a giant brick power supply.
Could justify it if I was on set just setting up for a full day, but on the move no way.
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20:34, well I can see a great use for a 32bit float upgrade from my F8n, I'm a boom operator booming out of a bag, and some takes, perhaps wide shots, i have my arms up above my head, and when actors gets louder it is not possible for me to go down and adjust the gain (because i would probably drop my boom at the same time). I have always used safety tracks for this before, but would be really nice to have 32bit float option for these takes. Too bad the F8n Pro is not in stock anywhere!
Edit: It would be cool to hear a recovery of a "off axis" actor talking (for example with a MKH50). Lets say there are 2 actors but only one is in the picture, and the other actor is standing off screen behind the camera. If its not possible for me to swing the boom between them during the takes, the audio gets super off axis, how would that sound if recovered? Any additional noise floor on that? (i always move the lav mics out of the clothes from the actor off screen in these circumstances, but would be nice to know what happens with the audio file of the boom)
If you boost the levels in post for the off-axis line, you'll pick up a fair bit more ambient noise simply because the microphone is so much farther away.
32bit only helps in three situations.
First, if you set the gain 30 or 40dB lower than what would provide good digital audio with a great amount of headroom, so you get to hear the Ad converter quantization noise, especially when raised by a digital limiter.
Second, if you set the gain 20 dB higher than what would achieve a good recording, so you clip the AD converter even though reducing the gain 20 or even 30dB would not reduce sound quality at all, since the thermal noise of the mic is many dBs above the quantization noise.
Third, if you actually need to capture the entire dynamic range of a microphone.
In 24bit recorders, the first situation never really happened because nobody records at -50dB, even if the sounds are low level. The second situation happened is some cases when recording too hot due to unpredictable situations, so recorders added a feature to send the signal to another track at lower gain for protection. The third situation was not something anyone actually asked for.
32bit will not reduce the noise floor of the mic, it will not improve the mic maximum SPL and it will not change the reality of primary source to secondary source and ambient sound, so it will not fix mic placement errors.
@@aristotle_4532 thanks for the insights.
Super advice if it works why fix it 👏👏👏
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Nice 👍
Thanks 🙏
Very interesting. In this case when the clipped audio was restored, to my ears it still didn't sound nearly as good as the sample recorded at lower level. So although the 32 bit can get you out of trouble, it's not a feature I would ever want to use. In fact I'd much prefer the safety track function of the two predecessors. (By the way, I think it's track 1 and 5 rather than 1 and 4: 1-5, 2-6, 3-7, 4-8).
Let me ask, do I understand it correctly that the Android app only works with the F8n Pro and not with the F8n and F8? If so, do you have any info on why?
Zoom say it works with all 8 series models. There was obviously no reason to not support such similar devices.
I don't know as I don't have an Android device to test, but it sounds like the app works with the original F8, F8n and F8n Pro.
You are right, the safety track for #1 is #5
Good job! Im thinking of upgrade my F8n to Pro version because Im recording loud cars. So I never know how loud exhaust will be so 32bit... sounds good to me! :)
👍 Be ready to change the input to line level mode for VERY loud sound sources. Happy recording!
Hey Curtis, thanks for another great video. Do you think the f8n pro's headphone amp is as good as f8n's, or f8n pro's is better or worse?
Seems to be the same as the F8n's.
This was an extremely helpful and comprehensive review. Thank you for doing this. I'm in the process of recording monologue audio for my documentary. I currently have an MKH416 shotgun mic, but I need more of the bass power of a cardioid mic. I'm looking to use the Norton TLM103 with the Zoom f8n Pro. How well do you believe a mic of that kind would work with this recorder?
Should do well. I would describe the F8n Pro’s preamps as somewhat neutral or even clinical, not extra bassy.
OK... But how the gain is implemented in 24-bit mode? Is it still digital? That would have to result in big increase in noise. That really make no sense to me.
I don't know, that isn't clear from the block diagrams.
I am possibly buying a F8n this week for a good deal. Should I cancel and go straight to the Pro? or is the difference not enough to justify that? I am an amateur mixer, but that 32-bit feature sounds nice when recording car exhaust notes
That's up to you, but the F8n is a great recorder.
Looks like the F8n Pro would be the best upgrade for me from my MixPre 3 ii right now. Though as you point out, it wouldn't make my recordings sound better in 99% of what I do with it. That said, (exaggerating due to my personal peeves) I'm appalled that it has a USB mini jack not USB C! I don't care if it does nothing but act as a USB 2.0 interface, I'm still going to complain about any USB port on a new product that isn't C.
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What makes you want to upgrade from your MixPre3?
Do you prefer the F8’s automix feature vs. the MixPre’s automix feature?
I prefer MixAssist on MixPre. I think it makes cleaner mixes overall.
Hey Curtis Good day! I’m looking at upgrading from MixPre-3 (mark i) to F8n Pro due to cost to input ratio. One thing I love about the mix-pre is the audio interface through usb-c and I notice the f8n has an older style usb port. Does the f8n pro appear to equal the mixpre ii series as an audio interface? are there any drawbacks of this older usb port on the f8n pro?
Hey AJ, the connector doesn’t seem to affect the performance of the recorder. But the F8 series in general do require you to manually go to audio interface mode every time you start it up vs. the MixPre which just connects automatically.
@@curtisjudd thanks for the info. great review as always. i trust you are doing well. blessings to you!
Any guess as to when we’ll see 32 bit float in cameras? Seems like resolution wars are maxed out and dynamic range is getting closer by the month. Audio could be a point of differentiation.
Would be a nice addition. They're doing a roughly analogous thing in the Canon Cinema EOS line with Dual Gain Output sensors.
It's amazing how great audio is getting with in reach of the common man.
Check out the RØDECaster Pro 2. EIN -131-5. RØDE say adding an in line preamp will actually add noise.
👍 I pre-ordered the RCP 2 just yesterday. Can't wait to try it out.
Wait so 1 couldn't destort tape then? I was a kid when I used kaset and it mostly was my toys i recorded into the tape recorders so I don't recall if I ever clipped the tapes. Also I wasn't as nitpicky and expecting Sound Devices sound as now. lol
It would saturate first, then distort.
nice review. does this one need the bluetooth adapter ?
No, this one has bluetooth built-in.
Curtis. Thanks for the video. I own several Zoom products including an F8n. One great advantage of 32 bit float, which I have learned from experience, is 32 bit float is a project saver when the mic input levels are unpredictable and could be very different. I just recorded an event like a graduation where some speakers were really loud with clapping right in front of the mic, which would have clipped the audio. Only to be followed by another speaker that you couldnt hear, and I needed to add 35 dB of gain to bring up to a normal speaking level. If I had used my F8n, I would have lost all of the audio. Thanks again for the video!
Thanks for sharing!
Wow you do like your tools. LOL
They are nice but I sure don't need all that.
Rock on Curtis, young keep making them I'll keep listening.
Keith Kuhn
Thanks Keith.
Hello again, isn't the dual channel recording feature available in the pro series? What do you think about this? Thank you.
No, I assume they figured it isn’t necessary with 32-but float. Doesn’t seem like an issue for my work.
what is the phase inverst for on the zoom?
For when you have two mics out of phase. You invert phase on one of them to correct that issue.
32bit float will soon be even a end user standard, recording everything in 32bit has no downside. Just like cameras once you are comfortable working in RAW you don't go back.
I think there is a case where there is an exception: If a recording exceeds 0dBFS by a large amount, it didn't sound as natural to me as when the trim was set so that peaks weren't substantially above 0dBFS. But it is a nice tool to prevent clipping.
Hello Curtis! So i'm a beginner and in recent days I went into the rabbit hole with my research and realized I want to purchase a audio recorder and be done with it for years. As I would rather spend extra money now to get a little bit of future-proofing so: I was looking especially into Zoom F6 and Zoom F8n PRO.
My first concern is as I don't have any direct pro experience as a Boom op/Sound mixer, I was wondering if the extra budget to get the F8n would be worth it or should I settle with F6 for now to see where it goes?
Just as a note, I'm in a small filming crew and also the only sound related guy in the group, we deals with a lot of field recording and interviews most of which are personal/uni project (we do plan to take paid jobs in the future as well)
The F8n Pro is far more future proof with its balanced outputs and massively better ergonomics for location sound work where there’s a dedicated sound person.
Engineering is the art of compromise, so the question of a clear-cut opinion on which of two devices is better is meaningless unless one specifices better for what.
Agreed.
Agreed. I'd prefer the Zoom F8n for bag work, but maaaaaybe I'd prefer the MixPre10mk2 for mixing on a Sound Cart.
Hi, which portable power bank or power supply do you recommend for this product?
Something like this: ua-cam.com/video/bcofqVhVOGs/v-deo.htmlfeature=shared