Zoom F4/F8 vs MixPre-3 and 6 Audio Recorder Comparison
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- Опубліковано 26 сер 2024
- Which audio recorder should you buy for your film or video project? Here we compare the Zoom F4 and F8 up against the Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6. This new class of audio recorders have pushed the boundaries on what is possible with a sub-$1000 sound recorder. They produce stellar quality audio recordings. But it can be confusing to figure out which one may be best for you. Since I’ve worked with the Zoom F4 and F8 for over a year and several months with the Sound Devices MixPre-6, let me share my observations. I hope this helps!
Links to Gear Discussed and Used to Record the Lavalier Microphone Review we use as our demo piece:
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Zoom F4 Audio Recorder
Amazon: geni.us/hGK6cg
B&H: bhpho.to/2vP6WDT
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Zoom F8 Audio Recorder
Amazon: geni.us/mOvLJVl
B&H: bhpho.to/2w8hfU3
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Zoom F-Control - Control Surface with linear faders and larger gain knobs
Amazon: geni.us/f2ApgB
B&H: bhpho.to/2gTfsjB
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Sound Devices MixPre II Series
B&H, Sweetwater: geni.us/O8e0
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USB-C Power Bank I use to power my MixPre
Amazon: geni.us/DguA6A
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Power bank I use to power my Zoom F4/F8
Amazon: geni.us/runCsRn
And you’ll need this cable as well:
Amazon: geni.us/KBNH8
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Zoom EXH-6 XLR Add-on for F4/F8 - Add 2 XLR inputs
Amazon: geni.us/0wsKFEO
B&H: bhpho.to/2xme1RJ
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Panasonic GH5 Camera (for product shots)
Amazon: geni.us/D7Kci
B&H: bhpho.to/2oIdG7o
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Panasonic 12-35mm f/2.8 Zoom Lens
Amazon: geni.us/9bJe
B&H: bhpho.to/2k9dmg2
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Copyright 2017 by Curtis Judd
Ethics statement: Some of the links above are Amazon.com, B&H Photo, or other affiliate links.
**Correction** Several astute viewers have pointed out that on the Zoom F series you can create custom meter views which allow you to see the dB markers and the isolated meters on the same screen. This is great news and another plus for Zoom!
Do you think a triton fet head would improve the audio for zoom f8. It already has 75 db of gain right? I've tried it on the tascam dr70 and so far only the rode ntg4+ works.
Good to see this corrected :-)
& btw it has always been like this for me with my F4, since the first v1.0 firmware.
How exactly does one customize the meter views to add the dB markers to each view option? I can't find it in the manual and I can't figure it out in the menu. Thanks.
Also, Curtis, I think your videos are some of the best that I have seen for gear reviews and conveying information in an understandable way. You really seem to be in tune with the way people use gear in the real world. And your easy going manner is refreshing. Thanks.
I should clarify that I am using a Zoom F4. Thanks.
OK. I was able to answer my own question after a more tinkering in the menu. For others who may be trying to figure this out, here's how to set up the meter views to show the dBFS levels on the Zoom F4.
You need to go into Menu and set up the Level Meter View (pages 133-135 in the manual). Press Menu > System > Level Meter > Level Meter View. Then select the view you want to display the dBFS numbers. Let's choose View 1 as an example. Go into View 1 and select any three tracks (or fewer). Deselect all other tracks. Exit the set up menu by pressing Menu until you return to the Home screen. You should now see the Tracks you selected along with the dBFS numbers at the bottom of the meter.
Note that there is an important limitation to this. Due to size limitations of the screen, you can only display a maximum or four tracks. The dBFS numbers count as one of these tracks which means that you can only display up to three tracks and still have enough room to display the dB numbers along the bottom of the meter. A work-around is to set up each of the four Meter Views to display different combinations of tracks to suit your needs. You then scroll through these from the Home screen to see what you need. For example, I have View 1 on my F4 currently set up to display Track 1/2, Track 3/4, and Track L/R. View 2 displays Track 1/2, Track 3/4, and Main. And so on...
Thing is with Curtis, there doesn't seem to be a fanboy bone in his body. Purely objective and always pleasant and careful when he describes his preferences. Makes everyone feel welcome to the conversation. That is an art. Thanks Curtis!
Thanks Gerry, much appreciated!
Very well said.
😂 “Fanboy bone”
Always an informed, lucid video. I have never switched off half way through, this guy speaks sense all the time!
Thanks John, appreciate the feedback.
Seriously... Who gives you grief!? You are one of the sources I refer to when giving a complete, non BS review, for information about audio and video.
Thanks dh2006dh.
Yesss this is exactly the video I was waiting for
👍
I ended up getting the the mix pre 3.
Thanks Curtis. I'm loving the results!!
👍🎤
Just ran across this video. Very helpful. Thanks for the sensitively detailed, honest objective (noting personal bias) review and comparison.
Thank you Eric, I appreciate the feedback.
Thanks Curtis. I used your link to pick up the battery and cable from Amazon for my Zoom F8, which has treated me very well. Having an all day battery solution will be a big help.
Thanks! I haven't used it all day yet but it's looking promising!
Even if it takes two to get through a full day that would be very much worth it and much better than replacing AA batteries.
You can set up custom metering views on the F4 that include the number values.
By the way, I bought an F4. I'm quite pleased with it.
Thanks! Had no idea there was a way to customize the meter views, that's really good to know! I'm a fan of the F4 as well!
I love watching Judd's videos! Better to see someone who is an audio guy in video rather than some random person who barely knows what he/she is talking about.
Thanks!
Great video thanks, seems MixPre-3 is the way to go for me - Android + limiter + good headphone output + back-light.
Thanks Gregor!
Excellent comparison. Very clear and highly informative. I especially appreciated the part about the limiters.
One question though about the limiters on the MixPre: I noticed in the spec sheet of the MixPre6 that it said, "Limiter at all gain stages, range > 40dB. First stage analog, subsequent stages digital. "
So I did a follow-up about this and asked the guys at Sound Devices about it, and the answer was: "Whilst we cannot divulge too deep in our circuitry and design, our analog limiters sit before the AD converter, Digital limiters are used for signals after the AD converter such as LR Mix or Outputs. The input limiters are dual stage; first stage analog, second stage digital, Output limiters are digital. The threshold is approx -3 dBFS"
(Perhaps that is the reason why I've read some people reported that the limiters on the MixPre's are a bit too harsh?)
Anyway, the answer was not really very clear to me. Maybe you can explain it: Why is a second limiter stage needed after the AD converter if an analog limiter already sits before the AD converter?
Hello Professor, The second stage or output limiters are to protection against the potential overloading the outputs when multiple channels of sound are mixed together. The input limiters work on each input channel/microphone, in isolation from the others. If you are recording with two microphones and neither of them overload their individual input channels, they can still overload the outputs when they are combined/mixed for output because they are additive in terms of overall amplitude. Does that make sense? Thanks for the question!
Yes, that makes sense, thanks for clarifying and the swift response.
I suppose my confusion after reading the specs was in thinking that the input would pass through the following: Analog Limiter->AD-Converter->Digital Limiter, and that the output would have another, separate, Digital Limiter.
first video I've ever watched from this channel, but THANK YOU for starting with the summary! (still gonna watch the whole thing though lol)
👍
Hi Curtis! You say at around 12:15 that you can add two ADDITIONAL XLR/TRS inputs via accessory input while showing and discussing Zoom F8. However, that is only true for F4. With F8 plugging in any capsule to accessory input disables channels 1-2, so in fact thesee are not additional.
Thank you for the correction Pawel, much appreciated!
even worse: when you plug in one of the H5 modules, you can't control the input gain anymore: it's overridden and you have to play with the knob on the module itself, which is a pain in the ass if, like me, you bought the ECM-3 extension cable and the mic module is at the end of your boom doing rear surrounds! really silly. Of course if I have to choose one or the other, I'd want to control the gain from the recorder. :(
mark morgenstern
When you use exh-6 it's probably not a big deal as you can simply use a cable that is long enough without ECM-3/6. But if you use microphone capsule it can be a problem. But it is true for all Zoom H series. Simply these capsules are not meant to be used in places where it is hard to reach them.
Urgh.. CHOICES!..
I love Sound Devices and I have worked with a Sound Devices 664 for quite some time and loved pretty much everything about it.
I'm a filmmaker but I will also do sound on a couple of (no/low-budget) short films next year and need a Recorder.
Budget-wise the MixPre-3 would be good and after reading about it and watching your vids I absolutely love it except for one personal uncertainty.
Are 3 channels enough? I own a MKH416, a Sennheiser Wireless Mic Kit and soon an Oktava MK 012.
Sure, renting would be an option, if 3 channels will not be enough in the future, but I want to actually use my own gear.
The MixPre-3 is already a lot of money for me and the MixPre-6 would be too expensive, sadly.
But going Zoom? Well, I still have about a good month left to decide...
Hi steadikek, I find 3 channels to almost always be enough for my work. Usually I shoot with a boom plus one or two wireless lavs. Of course if you get more than two actors/talent, then you'll need more. But I find that for most corporate and commercial pieces, 3 XLR inputs is enough.
Fantastic and detailed comparison video, thanks! For a while I worried that I may have gone with the wrong choice but watching your video made me feel a lot better about my MixPre-6 purchase...and you're right. There are pros and cons to both. I can see myself owning both the MP6 and F8 one day.
Thanks Bridget, happy recording!
Reading through the manuals, seems the Mix-Pre 6 does do external controllers now. The manual lists the compatible ones.
That size and weight looks nice in comparison with the Zoom. Twice the cost of an F4 though (and the F8 is now becoming cheaper as it's now older technology).
Yes! Several things added since this comparison.
USB MIDI controllers: ua-cam.com/video/nRNykAonevw/v-deo.html
Remix: ua-cam.com/video/_9RlX7YqiDo/v-deo.html
Music plugin- multitrack/overdub: ua-cam.com/video/xdcKjASBAZ4/v-deo.html
Thanks again Curtis. Building on my budget system, I've picked up a used MixPre-3 for a good price. I'll have to rely on my F2 for any 32bit float. Not sure I would need it when a mixer is in the mix. Saves $400-500. Confirmed all the important info here before pulling the trigger. youdaman.
Congrats, good choice, and happy recording.
I'm a simple man. I see a new Curtis Judd video I press like then I watch
Thanks muncherelli!
That makes two of us. But I'm sure there are many others out there taht do the same ;-)
I shamefully must confess that although I'm always thrilled when a new Judd video is up, I do watch them first. And then very often I click "like", but not always. (Sorry, Curtis). It does make life a little more complicated, I guess, but that's just who I am.
Lau, no shame in that. I prefer for people to be honest in cases where they really do not find a video helpful and I can always count on you to be honest.
My OP was just a meme and mostly did it for the lulz, however- it was particularly true. I already know when I see a new Curtis Judd video that I'm going to learn something, which deserves all the likes. Top notch work here, and we appreciate it. Just don't yell in your analog clipping videos anymore, thank you.
lol jk
Really liking your channel and reviews as I am about to buy either the Zoom F4 or the F8 (still trying to decide.) Just FYI: Hirose is a Japanese company, so it is pronounced "Hero-Say" with no accent on either of the syllables. Hope that helps!
+Genshi Media Group thanks and best wishes!
Thank you for yet another great review. This conundrum of choice faces me too. Your videos will help me towards this end.
Thanks and good luck!
Thanks for the thorough review - I very much appreciate the amount of time and effort you put into your videos. I would like to point out, though, that having an analog limiter isn't a get out of jail free card: Limiters affect the sound significantly, depending on how much they are pushed, and can also add very unnatural characteristics in the attack and/or decay as they release. These are likely pretty gentle and designed to deal with modestly too-hot signals, but it's not going to save your butt the way a safety track can if the volume gets crazy. While you won't have distortion, you'll have massively compressed audio.
Very good point, even an analogue limiter doesn't save recordings where the gain is set too high. I should have been more clear on that. Good topic for a future episode. Thanks!
Really the best review I've seen on these mixers! Thanks so much!
Thank you Keith.
Thanks Curtis for another great video! I also tested Mixpre-3 vs. Zoom F4 vs Tascam DR-70D. All three great devices.
Thanks! Yes, all good options!
Hi Curtis, congratulations for your amazing work, best objective and professional reviews webwide! Huge fan of your channel btw! I'm a young ethnomusicologist progressively making more and more field recordings (audio & video) for research purposes. As you can imagine, the challenges for the kind of work that I do are very specific to fieldwork/run-and-gun sonorous and dance situations : size & weight, portability, power sources and -obviously- sound quality. So far, I've been working my audio recordings with a Zoom H6 using the 2 pluggable Zoom mics, and a third NTG2. Very basic gear, practical and nice but amateur quality sound for consumer needs. So I actually want to upgrade my fieldwork gear (audio recorder and mics 1rst!) and I'm struggling to make the best choice for my needs assuming that my budget allows me to pretend pro-sumer products : for the Zoom F4, I absolutely love all its features (mostly price) EXCEPT for the 2 XLR dual channel limitation, the not-so-good headphone amp, and the fact that it can't be powered via USB, both things are considerable for all-day-long field recordings in rural areas. Moving on to my $1000 limit, the MixPre-6 seems fantastic, mostly the mic preamps that have an undoubted reputation! sole cons for me, single SD card slot so no real-time back-up unless connected to a computer. And finally the Zoom F8... well, it's also a fantastic device, more tracks than the F4, a bluetooth iOS app for comfy mixing and metadata entry, even buying the FRC-8 can improve the lack of maneuverability because of the little fader pots... BUT all the cons that you have signaled in your F8 reviews makes me think that I should really wait 3 or 4 months for the new F8n (lot of these cons will be improved as I know).
So, that being said... I rarely record a session with more than 4 mics at the same time, so the F4 seems OK, but its cons bothers me a little. So if I had to go for a recorder that can handle harsh conditions on the field (lots of wind and background noises), best run-and-gun power possibilities and friendly interface, which of these 3 options would you choose?
My microphone gear will progressively be updated to : Rode VideoMic Pro+ (on camera, mostly R&G situations), Audio-Technica AT4053b (indoor use), Sennheiser MKH-8040 (main mics) and in the future a Sanken CSS-5 for versatile stereo-mono recordings.
Your help will be much appreciated, thanks a lot!
Regards.
Hi Vincent, your projects sound very interesting! If you’re not into much of a hurry, I’d wait for the F8n early reviews. That might be the best option. I’m in the queue to get a copy and review it as soon as it starts shipping.
Was hoping you'd make this exact video! Thank you, Curtis! The F8 is an incredible piece of gear. But I love the size of the Mix Pre 3. I think I'll keep my F8 at the office for in-house production and pick up a mix pre 3 for indie film field recording. And because it looks kinda cool.
Thanks! Good call! If you can't decide on one, go for both! ;-)
If you think you'll ever need more than two wireless then don't get the MixPre3. Go for the Zoom F4 instead, or F8
Outstanding review! One thing I hate on the F8 is the AA battery sled and access door; it is a pain to access from the bottom of a sound bag and the locking screw for the battery door is really small and poorly secured to the door. The MixPre definitely has a better AA battery arrangement.
Hi Gregg. Yes, I agree. I have to admit, I really just see the AA batteries as a backup to sustain the mixer while I change out other batteries.
Hey Curtis , great video. You are the final source I go to when look to make decision on audio. Great stuff.
Thanks!
Just watched this as I debate over options when I hopefully get the chance to move up a bit in equipment (if I get enough sound work to justify it) and this was a great comparison video for someone like me. I need to watch the regular review of the F series ones because I've been leaning Zoom F4, but very helpful info in this! Thanks for the great video.
You're welcome and thanks for the feedback!
Can't wait for your review on Sound Devices MixPre-10t!
+Mark Hodgkin I can’t wait either! Should be here within a week!
Thanx Curtis, this comparison was very informative and helped me to finally decide. I've been reading through the comments and was amazed by the fact that you have been responding to everyone with such a great passion and dedication! Big UP man. My question is about the quality of preamps on MP3/6 comparing to some of the Sound Device high end products, are they actually the same preamps with 32bit A/D converter?
Hi h, the MixPre has a new preamp design. They sound somewhat similar but not identical and most can only hear the difference on good speakers or headphones (not on earbuds or phone or laptop speakers). Here's an episode with samples from each: ua-cam.com/video/Hnvq-6M1adE/v-deo.html
Thanks for doing these videos on the MixPre recorders. I had a long look at the F4 and the Mix Pre 3. I bought the Mix Pre. I have had a lot of audio recorders over the years. I hope I don't have to buy another one. This looks promising.
Glad its working out so far. Best wishes!
The only thing I miss from the Zoom is no analogue limiters and no backlit stop button. Other than that, it's a beast of a device. I love it.
Good point on the lack of backlighting for the stop button. I ran into that on a shoot in a dark studio just the other day.
Totally agree to the no backlit buttons, whenever I happen to shoot in a indoor location theater, which is usually dark, it is a problem for pretty much every button.
For the limiters, I believe what zoom did is actually a trick and it does actually work in the analog domain to avoid overshooting the ADC. If I'm not mistaken it works like this: let's say you set the limiter at -6 dB, the F8 then lowers the analog gain by 6 dB and raises the digital signal by 6 dBb, total overall gain is thus the same as without the limiter. Whenever the signal goes above the threshold (on the digital side), the digital limiter can now kick that back, but the analog part still has 6dB of overhead to work with. It will raise your noise floor by those 6dBs (or whetever you set), but then again, every compressor and/or limiter will diminish noise to signal ratio. So this is how I understood it works.
Great stuff Curtis, I found that really helpful. Many thanks.
👍
What a fantastic and comprehensive comparison. Yet again an superb example of how this sort of video tutorial should be done.
Regarding the lack of safety track feature on the MixPre series. A while ago I heard the suggestion that because the preamps are so quiet you can afford to record at a lower level (in a sense, the equivalent of a safety track) and boost in post without any problems. Would you agree with this.
Thanks again.
Good point John, Paul Isaacs from Sound Devices suggested that to me when we first talked back at NAB earlier this year. That's definitely another strategy that works given the quality of the preamps.
Thanks for the reply. I certainly watched that interview with Paul Isaacs (never miss any of your videos) so that must be where I remember hearing the suggestion.
I liked the idea of recording the right side at -10db versus the left.
SoundDevices now offers a sled that powers via Hirose. I bought it immediately. Excellent review, but the way. I ordered a MixPre-3.
That's a nice addition.
Here in Germany the price of the Sound Devices MixPre has gone up drastically : cheapest I found is now 1050 Euro -- so more than 1150 $ !!! I would say that speaks for Zoom, even more as there are quite some on the 2nd hand market ( in contrast to sounddevices ! )
Wow. $$$ Do keep in mind that there aren’t any official ZOOM repair centers as far as I’m aware. So sadly, their devices are sort of disposable. ☹️
Excellent video! I really enjoy the analysis, findings and justifications for everything. I think your channel is the best I have ever seen for comprehensive reviews. You also reply to every question and I think that's amazing.
Here is a question: If you were to redo this comparison today, but instead of reviewing a Zoom F8, you used an updated Zoom F8n instead, would any of your preferences change? Preferences for films, acoustic audio recording, or 'talking heads' interviews?
I saw your video of the differences a Zoom F8n has over the F8, and it seems Zoom have done a lot to improve an otherwise brilliant system, but I'm curious how the refined F8n stacks up against a PreMix 6, or even a PreMix 10T now that Zoom have hit back with these improvements?
Thank you so much for your time! Gus
Hi Gus, thanks! Several things have changed since I shot this on both the Zoom and Sound Devices sides. My perspective is still generally the same - they’re both still great recorder lines. I still personally prefer the MixPre for my work and working style, but the Zoom F series are very capable mixer/recorders in their own right. SD have added remix and control surface support which puts them closer to the Zoom feature set. Zoom
made all the improvements in the F8n and also ported the software features back to the original F8 which is great. Overall, all of them are great but I would keep my MixPre10T if I could only keep one.
Whoa! Thank you for such a thorough comparison!
👍
Love your reviews - exhaustive and very objective. You make is clear when something is your personal preference and why. I love my Zoom H6, but I find myself longing for more gain! (I record nature outdoors). The F4 has a decent price point, but I really wish it was a color display - makes peaking adjustment easier.
Agreed. The MixPre has the advantage there.
I’m looking for a step by step video to show how to adjust output levels on multiple channels on the Zoom F4.
Need a bit more info and maybe context - what you're trying to accomplish?
Great review Curtis, thanks a lot. My choice as a videographer is the MixPre-3.
Thanks! Good choice!
Hi Curtis, one question: The XLR cable for the MixPre-3 I find on the internet is only 30cm long. Do you have an idea where I can find a longer cable, so I could use it on a boom?
Oh, this seems to me a rather silly question thinking about it now. I could just use an XLR extension.
Yes, any quality XLR cable should do that job.
Very nice informative review. I think sound devices did a pretty nice job on the mix pre series without letting it touch their pro market. That's a big point for them I think. They're able to cater to vloggers or indie filmmakers without cannibalizing their high end business. Seems like a really smart product for them. Now if only zoom can come back with a recorder that can compete with the SD 6 series. LOL
Ha! I wouldn't be surprised if they try!
Very informative and helpful, thank you!
Thanks Daniel.
F8 is the best option price / quality. In my opinion. Cheers.
Thanks Byron.
F4 is the best option price / quality. In my opinion. Cheers. ;-)
i bought F6 after using it i return back and bought a MixPre-3 .
I hope the MixPre works better for you.
@@curtisjudd i am recording car exhaust sound and can’t find right recorder , i am not professional sound recording but trying to learn something from you too , i hope 🤞 i will receive on August 19th and let you know 😅
@@curtisjudd and I bought the course for MixPre
@@TheProVideo I hope you find it helpful. Happy recording!
The Nitty Gritty of it all. Analog Limiters in MixPre vs. Digital Limiters in the F4 and F8. Not a biggy for me, as I record conservatively anyway. The Tascam DR-100 Mk. 3 has been stellar for me up to this point. I keep looking at the Mix Pre 3, and can't quite make the leap on this machine. Even the Zoom is questionable. Now, if I needed more channels, maybe the F4, maybe the F8. The real pain is the lack of the Android support. Come on Zoom! Even Panasonic which I use for my Camera has support for Android. No excuses here. We live in the land of multi-platform reality. Even cars today support Android Auto, and Apple Car Play. One real big ding for Zoom. Nice thing is that Zoom can later correct that oversight if they want too. So Zoom get your collective reality together as you are limiting your audience. I am a big Zoom fan which why I am pretty hard on them. Another reality is Curtis here is a tremendous service to all of us need to have beyond the Marketing B.S. As usual Curtis, another stellar video. Thank you for your comprehensive video. You are the model that I want to follow when I start my Podcast. Happening soon too!
Thanks Vincent and James. One note: The apps (both Zoom and Wingman for SD) do allow the entry of metadata for take names, notes, track names and other such items. While I do not find the virtual faders on the Zoom app particularly useful for my style of working, I do find metadata entry on the app quite useful.
Hey Curtis, good production quality here. I have to ask your commentary seems to match what is in the video so well that I must assume that all your commentary is live with the video and not VO in post? If so are these mostly single take or multi take and then spliced together in post? As you have a lot of good straight forward commentary that doesn't feel strictly scripted but also not too much wandering like I tend to do with no script at all.
These days I tend to just record footage and to VO in post (also for better quality/control of the voice itself using a VO microphone)
Thanks Vicious Computers. I usually make pretty extensive notes up front and then sit and do the entire talking head take in one shot. That is then edited in post where 1/4 to 1/3 is usually cut. Sometimes, where it makes sense, the jump cuts are covered with a b-roll shot. Thanks!
Very, very helpfull! I am also interested in where Irig pro fits into the "ranking" of these devices in terms of sound quality.
Not anywhere close. :) the iRig Pro is a neat and convenient device but is missing many, many of the features of these more pro-sumer level recorders. If you don't need a prosumer, full featured recorder an iRig can be a fine device, but they're not really interchangeable with these.
Thank you very much for the video. Very helpful.
Thanks and you are welcome!
Great review as always!
Question re Zoom F-Control device. Please comment on comparing it to using an iPad via bluetooth, ignoring the obvious that it has better control with sliders. Does it help with (USB) keyboard input and creating sound reports?
In fact, can you/do you, have a video on how to use the F8 to create professional Sound Reports for use in a movie shoot environment? Thanks,
Paul
Hi Paul, You can connect a USB keyboard to the F-Control to enter metadata so that definitely helps with creating sound reports. I don't have a specific video where we demonstrate sound report generation but that's a good one I'll add to the list. Thanks!
Just another amazing comparison Curtis! Thank you! I wonder if the sampling rate matters in such comparison, you know Zooms can sample audio up to 192kHz and MixPre3 can do at 96kHz. Does this matter in terms of audio quality for indoor dialogues?
Hi Husain Ali, for dialogue, I don't think sample rates higher than 48kHz make much of a difference. The main time I would consider using 96kHz is when recording sound effects which I wanted to process and especially in cases where I want to slow the sounds for slow motion shots.
In most of the tests I've seen, even the most experienced mix engineers cannot reliably identify 96 or 192kHz sampled music from 44.1 sampled music in blind listening tests.
I think using a lossless format like wav vs lossy formats like AAC and mp3 is much more important than using high sample rates.
BTW. To be perfectly honest we should mention that Zoom F4 should not be compared to MixPre-3 and Zoom F8 to MixPre-6. OK, they are at similar price points, but they have different number of separate inputs which is crucial when you for instance mainly want to record live music. If anything, we should compare F4 to MixPre-6 and F8 to MixPre-10T. In such case we get devices of comparable recording capabilities but of different levels of profesional features. For a different price, of course...
There are many different considerations I agree. This one was grouped based on price but your point is certainly valid.
Hey Curtis, really informative video, I currently have the F4 but I've been super interested in the Mixpre3/6 due to the headphone output and the analog limiters (that sound better than the F series to my ears), plus USB-C powering solutions sounds like it would be a lot more feasible than hirose/AC options (at least for a newbie). That said, would you say the F4's features are a better choice than the Mixpre series for a starting production sound mixer/sound designer?
+Morad Enayet I think they both have their place and can both make great recordings and budding production mixers would be well served by either. It also depends on what types of jobs you plan to take. Will you need to feed balanced outputs to camera? If you go with the MixPre, you’ll need to keep a DI box or two on hand to do that. With F4 or F8, you can do that natively. Are you going to be adjusting faders to make a stereo mix while recording? That is harder on the F series unless you add the $350 F-control. So it really depends on the types of work you plan to do. I hope that helps!
The F4 is great!! :-D Stick with that.
And rather than selling and buying something else, then save your pennies to buy a Maxx/633/SX-R4+
The Zooms have "consumer", rather than "pro" XLR outputs - what does that actually mean in practice? I have a Canon C500 and I'm trying to find out if these mixers can be used with my camera...
It means you may need to increase the input gain on your camera
Mhm. Am on the look out to connect the battery you recommend to the F4. Interestingly enough I can get that battery pack here in Germany fairly easy. Finding a fitting DC 9 to Hirose cabel is far harder. 'tis possible to order the cable you recommend from the US - but that feels a bit silly / pricey to do :).
Yeah, perhaps Thoman Sound has something?
I don't know which Ill get.. but initially Im gonna buy a h1, h2n or Tascam just so I have a recorder..
Once my budget grows Ill look into getting an F4 or MixPre3
Sounds good, happy recording!
Hello! Thanks for your video again! It's help me a lot!
May I ask if I use the TalentCell Rechargeable for the zoom F8, can it handle with a 9 hours above shooting(P.s I ask this question because I search that the TalentCell Rechargeable unit is count with "mAh" )?
Not only but also its just sale on amazon, but it not ship to HongKong, how can I buy it?
Sorry about too many questions, Thanks so much!
Hi Hochi, I have not formally tested the TalentCell but I do NOT believe it would last 9 hours. I suspect it would be closer to 4 or 5 hours depending on how many microphones you record and how many of them are using phantom power.
Hey Curtis, I appreciate this review as I've been looking at the Zoom F4. I understand your bias and have taken it into consideration but I would really appreciate your device as I am truly a novice compared to the knowledge you have. I am a filmmaker and I work on projects that range from Short Films, Corporate Vidz, Promo Marketing Vidz, Government Vidz...and conferences (I also use the H6 as an audio interface)! I currently have 3 H4n's and 1 H6 because most of the conferences we do have breakout rooms that don't usually go beyond four. I am looking to replace my h4n's, they need to be upgraded. I don't use the microphone on the H6 AT ALL nor the H4n's and based on what I do and your review, I was thinking of purchasing three F4's. Based on the info that I've given you, would you recommend three H6's or F4's? (F4 = $550 & H6n = $400)
Hi Ethan, the F4s have some features that may be worthwhile for your work; Dual SD cards and the ability to power via very large external batteries. The preamplifiers are in a very different league - much cleaner. Build-wise they're also a bit more robust. I'd go for the F4s if you've got the budget. Good luck!
I'd be interested to see how the pre-amps on these records compare to the Roland R44, which is much older, but still being sold at a similar price point to the MixPre3 and a bit higher than the Zoom F4?
Hi James, good question. I'll endeavor to borrow one for testing when the opportunity arises. Thanks!
Hi thanks for this I wonder what differences you feel between mixpre 3 and 6? Thank you for your great always helpful work. Best John
+John Blystone hi John. The main differences are the number of XLR inputs, the fact that the inputs on the 6 also take 1/4 inch TRS plugs, and the 6 can record at 192kHz while the 3 tops out at 96kHz. The three is also a fair bit smaller physically. Otherwise they're the same.
Great stuff again. My one question is based around using mixpre as an audio interface, with speakers connected. The zoom sound a pain in the respect (AC power, turn on, menu diving etc). Am I right in thinking the mixpre is more a case of 'connect USB-3, connect speakers, turn on (no menu diving)? Also I've seen in another video you recommend going out of the stereo output for speakers - would it be a good idea to come out of the headphone jack instead so you have instant access to an overall volume for speakers (headphone vol at the side)?
Hi Jim, I see both of these as good mobile audio interfaces for post work using headphones when you need to edit on the go, but not as convenient as dedicated audio interfaces for the edit studio. I found that I needed to use a DI box with the MixPre, even for short cable runs or end up with a fair bit of noise. Not sure whether that was my particular setup. And with that, there were a lot of cables and clutter to make that work. Headphone jack might address the volume control issue to some small extent--make it easier to access--but still, not an ideal solution for someone who does a significant amount of editing with proper near-field monitors.
That being said, I really like the MixPre as a mobile interface with headphones. Simple and straight-forward in that situation.
Thanks for the review/s Curtis. Just wondering if the 1/8" jack stereo output on the MixPre6 is sufficient level etc to send to your average camera on shoot, given some cable conversions can be made etc. Is this a practical output for this purpose? Would you mind elaborating a little on this? Also how important is it to have timecode generation on a shoot, that is, how often would camera be required to get timecode from the audio recorder above other sources..? I just really like the sound, the headrom, and operation of the MixPre6 and of course Sound Devices in general, but question the audio output capability to camera's as this is often requested, and my need to be the sync source on a future shoot. Thanks. I generally do independent films as sound mixer/recordist.
Hi Paul, that depends on the type of camera input. For mic level inputs, yes, definitely. For XLR line level inputs, it is not quite as hot as the 600 series from Sound Devices but still workable in the cases I’ve tried so far.
Hi Curtis, Thank You for another comprehensive review! I have been a F8 user for the past two years, but since I am doing mostly documentaries, I am gravitating towards lightweight setups (even such as a H4n mounted on a bottom of a boom pole - but that was years ago). I am now looking for a lightweight universal (H4n) replacement, and the MixPre-3 seems like a great option, that would put all the Zoom and Tascam models out of the competition. Are the preamps and limiters as good as the other SoundDevices and better than Tascams and Zooms? Would it make a difference with a Sennheiser MKH-60 and the Sennheiser microports?
Hi Radovan, I prefer the sound of the MixPre Kashmir preamps over the Zoom F4/F8 but the difference is very small: ua-cam.com/video/Hnvq-6M1adE/v-deo.html
I will also say that I prefer the sound of the SD 633 over the MixPre, but that is also a very small difference (also included in the comparison linked above).
Yes, the MixPre will work very well with the Sennheiser MKH series and microports.
Hi Curtis, very nice video! Greetings from Ecuador. I just bought my zoom f8 and I'm looking for a good power bank. So I was wondering, so far how does that "Tallentcell" performed to you, I mean in terms of time? I work making documentaries and I need a power bank that at least can handle an entire day of production without recharging. Again, congratulations for the video and I hope to see more of your videos!
+Daniel Dosa hi Daniel, it definitely does not last a day, closer to 4 hours. I think you may need to move up to the more expensive batteries to get enough capacity for all day use. My Anton Bauer 90kW can power it all day.
The problem with the MIxPre is the price. It s hard to beat a MixPre :)
Indeed.
I have a Canon EOS 5D Mark 4 that I want to use for a documentary film. What would you advise me to do as far as sound recording is concerned if I have a MixPre: connect it them together, or record the sound separately?
I'd record the separately, or if you do feed audio from the MixPre to camera, I'd still record on the MixPre and use that audio in post.
Brilliant insight into both recorders Curtis. But I'm wondering, where did you get that back brace for your recorder in the picture at 2:32? After a week or two on a shoot with a sound bag full of batteries and a hefty recorder, my neck and mid-back complained for a good month before properly recovering.
Hi DJ Shuffle, that's the Orca harness which is designed to work with their sound bags, in this case the OR-30 bag.
Orca Harness: bhpho.to/2i8eXmU
OR-30 Sound Bag: bhpho.to/2BfQ3Wh
Por favor em edpañol la explicacion de sus cualidades del equipo
Puede activar los subtítulos ocultos y cambiarlos para que se traduzcan automáticamente al español.
I was just wondering whether the Zoom F8 has a touch screen. 30 seconds later he was answering it in the video 😆👍
👍
Excellent detailed comparison. One question: could you expand on the difference on consumer versus pro level outputs?. Thanks.
Balance consumer line level is a less powerful signal than pro line level. In practical terms this means that when feeding audio from your recorder to a camera, the output will not be as strong with consumer line level.
Thank you very much for the response. I wanted to confirm this. Have a great week !
Thank you Curtis
You're welcome John.
As usual, thanks Curtis!
I'm looking hard at the Sound Devices premix-10M as I almost solely do portable music shoots. Overdubbing is a huge plus, and lack of a F-control a big minus. For now I'm using the Zoom F8. Any takes on the premix 10-m? Thanks!!
Hi Joe, here are my thoughts on the 10T: ua-cam.com/video/LgRdT8gsfIs/v-deo.html
Unless you will never use it for filming and only for overdubbing, you should go with the 10T and NOT the 10M.
Both the F4 and F8 can give you 75db of gain. What about the MixPre?
76dB of gain on the MixPre series (3, 6, 10T).
Used the F8 on a production a few months ago. Was planning to use it in mixer mode but had to abandon the idea since the F8 does not allow for gain trim in the channels PFL menus... I think you had to change back to trim mode to be able to change gain at all. I don't understand why they've done it this way but i'd be way more temped to buy one if they'd iron out those little things.
Also, to get dBU metering instead of dBV metering you have to change metering mode to "PEAK + VU".
Hi Simon, yes, it works a little differently where you use the main encoder to change between fader and trim modes. I actually prefer that so that I don't have to jump into the PFL menu for each individual channel but it is definitely different than most other mixer/recorders.
Good info, thanks!
Love the Talentcell battery. Incredibly affordable and long lasting.
Same here! Hard to believe it is only thirty-some dollars!
You sir are pure gold. btw a6500 has tc out setting via hdmi. I wonder if it works with mix pre.
Thanks! Good question. I've been thinking about trying out an a6500. Will test and let you know if that works out!
www.sounddevices.com/products/recorders/mixpre-6/supported-cameras Says yes.
Thanks neoshazam! I thought I had seen that page previously but couldn't find it.
Thanks!
Unless you need your hdmi output for streaming via a Teredek Vidiu Pro... then what?
Hi Curtis. Thank you for your excellent explanations. :-) But I'm a newbie in sound recording and need to ask you a question. I'm using Zoom F4 and and can't get the difference between setting the Trim in PFL (for example 55dB) and achieving the same effect using the knob rotating it between 10-75dB. What is the difference? What is the setting Fader (dB) in PFL for? Looking forward to hearing from you. PS I'm sorry, maybe these questions are stupid but I would appreciate if you could help me. THX.
You might find my F4 course over at school.learnlightandsound.com helpful.
There is a difference between trim (gain) and fader. The trim/gain defines how much amplification is applied to the weak sound signal coming in from the mic. A fader is something you use for mixing to quickly adjust the differences in loudness between several different microphones. I hope that helps a little!
@@curtisjudd Sure, it was helpful. You know ... sometimes only few words may be enough to explain something very difficult. One said that everybody can make life complicated, but to make something easier there must be a genius. :-) So thank you once again from Poland and thanks for your invitation to F4 course.
Very helpful, thank you.
You're welcome!
so which one of these if you were making a low budget movie?
I'd choose the MixPre-6 or the ZOOM F8.
I need to be able to name inputs. My Zoom H6 creates a new folder per each take but the inputs are not named. Would be helpful. Instead of each file labeled ZOOM0001Tr1.wav. I would like each track nameable before we start recording my production.
What recorder can do this? The analog limiter vs digital is important for my productions.Price is a huge contender, $2K wold be my limit. The MixPre-10T does not seem to dowhat I want. thoughts. I am the AD for Falcon Entertainment for Mafia War Chronicles.
Thank you for your input. the H6 i use for my YT channel. I used it for my shoot this past weekend and the 4AAs lasted 8 hours using 6 channels.
What seems to be missing on the MixPre-10T for you?
About the Stereo Output from the MixPre to a cinema or broadcast camera to an xlr input: Thats exactly what i had in mind. Im working with little sony cameras as well, but also with bigger ones like the FS-7 (sometimes Red and Arri, but than the audio is always camera free, so lets keep the FS-7 in mind). Is there no other way to get an XLR output? I thought you could use/link/change one of the 4 inputs as an XLR output? If the MixPre-6 doesnt have it, does the 10 have it? Since im more a "camera guy" than a "sound guy" im a bit lost at the moment^^. I would be realy glad if you could answer it. :)
Hi Ciel, the MixPre-10 has balanced mini XLR outputs you could use to get audio into cameras with XLR inputs like the FS-7. The MixPre-6 and 3 only have a 3.5mm unbalanced output. You can adapt those and they should work fine as long as you keep the cable short so you avoid picking up any interference.
Hi Curtis! Thanks for the amazing comparison. With regard to the Zoom F4 - would paring it with a Sound Devices MM-1, give that top level Sound Devices pre-amp timbre and also allow for clean headphone monitoring? (I already own the F4, so considering picking up the MM-1 second hand) Thanks!!
Ant
I would thinks so though I haven’t specifically used the MM1. SD gear usually has a bit more low end without being overwhelming while the Zoom F series sounds a bit more clinical. And I’d bet the headphone amp on the MM1 is better than the F4.
Do you recommend recording Lavalier Mics on a R16 Zoom Recorder? It fits our film budget and it’s the only 8 track recorder we can rent at Long&Mcquade.
Hi LaRana Nation, I haven't personally used the R16, but it should do the job. Be sure to test before you jump into a job. Best wishes!
Very informative video. Thank you. I d like to know the manufacturer's (Sound Device) release dates of the MixPre 3 and 6
Hi Fox X, I don't remember the exact date of release for the original MixPre 3 and 6 but they announced them at NAB 2017 (April) and I received mine in June 2017 as I recall. I pre-ordered so my MixPre-6 was the first batch to ship.
@@curtisjudd Thank you.
Just curious (and this probably isn't done in any practical shooting scenarios, but): is there a way to feed the output from an XLR microphone onto two different recording destinations? Say, an external recorder, AND a preamp that's feeding into the camera - at the same time? I understand that signal loss would be an issue, and therefore I'd need probably need to use a higher gain settings on both recording platforms - but is this still doable?
Yes, there are options out there. Here's one from Rolls: bhpho.to/2xqWaZU You want to ensure that you use a isolator so that things don't get muddled in the process.
Will you review the new Samson Go Mic Mobile wireless system? I wonder how's the sound quality going to be
That looks pretty cool, will have to check it out!
Which recorder would you recommend for recording a church service to include a preacher whom voice fluctuate from very low to very high, and some dead space? Price range of the Zoom F8
Zoom F8n: ua-cam.com/video/m9XYPJQ2CpM/v-deo.html
I purchased the MixPre-6 and having troubles with recording isolated tracks. I want individual tracks for each of my mics.
Change the MixPre to advanced mode and you should be in business. If you're still having trouble, I'd highly recommend contacting Sound Devices support. They're very helpful.
Goto Advanced mode, then arm each individual track you want fo record.
I was thinking for desktop use, the F4 with control panel would be a good setup (the price difference between the F4 and the F8 pays for the control panel), and the MixPre-6 for field use. Those two setups combined is still way less than the SD633. *shrug*
Good point!
The Zoom capsules use inputs 5 and 6. So, the capsule in the video gives you XLR inputs for input 5 and 6.
Once you own a Zoom F4, then almost no reason to buy a MixPre6.
Save your pennies instead for a Maxx/633/SX-R4+!
Chris Hoffman correct, I use the addition like that all the time (permanently attached for me!) and record 6 tracks with my Zoom F4
No one makes audio hardware like Sound Devices. A very talented company.
👍
Hey Crutis! Greetings from Argentina! I have a question for you (sorry for my awfull english). Can I conect this three devices to my computer, record, and in the same time be able to hear the recordings through my near fields monitors? I don't know if i'm expresing correctly. In other words, can i conect my near field monitors to this devices? I think you specified that about de zoom f8, with the mini xlr balanced outputs, but what about the f4 and the MixPre? There is almost no information about it on the internet. Great, great video! Thanks!
Hi Conra, yes, you can use all of these as audio interfaces to your computer and connect near-field monitors to them. You will need to potentially use adapter cables or a DI (direct input) box with the MixPre if your monitors take a balanced input only. With the F4, the line level outputs are full size XLR so this makes it easy if your monitors take a balanced signal via XLR or 1/4" TRS plug. I hope that helps!
Is line out sound resolution the same as the recording resolution in all the Zoom products? I've read manuals, but there is no sound resolution for line outs at all.
Hi Jeremy, the outputs on the ZOOM F series recorders are analogue, not digital. So there is no resolution like there is in the digital domain.
Hi Curtis. Can I use the mixpre iii both as an audio interface and a standalone recorder without being connected to the computer?
It is primarily a stand-alone field recorder but can also be an audio interface when connected to your computer via USB.
@@curtisjudd thank you so much 🙏
Thank you for this video. It’s very useful for me. I want to buy a new sound recorder in a few weeks; maybe a Zoom F4, maybe a Sound Device MixPre-3. Just a little precision if you know. What about iXML? Do you use iXML in FCPX ? Do you think it’s something important ? You can get iXML in the F4 but not with the MixPre series. I’m right ?
And a last question, do you think Sound Device can add iXML in the MixPre series with firmware upgrade ? Or do you think Sound Device get this feature for their high range products?
Sorry for my bad english.
Hi Bruno, The MixPre's metadata transfers through to FCPX nicely in my tests. The track names you setup are carried through as role assignments and all of the other metadata are carried through. I'm not sure whether it is using iXML or just the standard BWF metadata but the MixPre seems to work quite nicely with FCPX.
Thanks Curtis. I think I'll buy the MixPre-3. But I'll take another few weeks to think.
Thanks for a great video. I would buy the mix pre 6 if I could clarify one thing. Normally on shoot I sync the timecode with the camera (for instance on the SD633) in the jam menu and then leave the timecode running. Is this not possible on the mix pre 6 ? Would I have to stay connected to camera in order to write timecode data to my files ?
Hi Emmett, if I understand correctly, you are using the timecode generator in the 633 to feed timecode continuously to camera. The MixPre-3 and 6 can receive HDMI timecode via HDMI feed from the camera effectively with the same results - if the camera sends timecode via HDMI. Or you can use external timecode generators like Tentacle Sync E.
But no, the MixPre-3 and 6 do not have an in-built timecode generator like the 633.
Question? Do either of these units allow for locking out the encoders, so levels can be set and not changed by accident ...
Hmm, good question, I'm not sure, will have to look. But I don't remember seeing that feature.
Hi Curtis.
will you teach a course on Zoom F4 someday? y see that you have done one about F8n.
Hi Uno Castillo, yes, I hope to. It is just a matter of carving out enough time to do it. Thanks!
which preamps are better? or its the same for both?
The MixPre have more headroom (+14dBu max input vs +4dBU) and sound a touch warmer to my ear.
I am not sure about the "consumer output" quality you were talking about...!!
If that is the case, could one remove the SD card after recording and run it from a computer with a good external sound card when mixing down audio ?
Great Review...!! Thx.
Hi Mus Ele, no, I was not talking about transferring the audio to a computer via USB, that is fine. I was talking about the line outputs - XLR on the F4, TA3M on the F8. This is to send audio to a camera via an audio cable. It is not bad quality, it is just not as strong a signal as professional line level. It still works fine, you may just need to amplify it a bit more on the camera side.
Thank you for prompt response...!! Best to you.