Muay Thai Thailand Is Suing ONE FC For "Perverting Rules"
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- Опубліковано 26 січ 2023
- The Boxing Association of Thailand is suing ONE FC as their entry into Thailand and "corruption" of the sport has led to a loss of visibility and prestige for traditional Muay Thai. Today we chat about this and I ask for your opinion on the events. Sometimes sports has to change to grab the attention of a new generation. But with muay thai being Thailand's national sport perhaps tradition is most important.
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I have seen maybe hundreds of your videos and only now i saw the back fist in your combo (in the intro), crazy!
one fc mt isnt mt. its kb with small gloves and elbows. thats it.
@@agentsmith6570 yeah can't ONE FC MT always change its name to some other for not getting sued?
Your position on the gloves is really interesting to me, the consensus among martial arts youtubers seems to be that larger gloves result in more concussions, and are thus more dangerous than smaller gloves would be. Your opinion is obviously qualified, but one of the first I have heard against it.
But Thailand it self have made a bunch of rulechanges that takes of the essense of muay thai also to modernise it and make it more promotional for the mainstream. Things as clinchtime, that you can only use one technique when you catch a leg then you have to release it. They first removed that you could rush a opponent down when you had catched a leg, first they put in that you could only use 3 steps, now its 1.
And i mean it was somewhere between 1920-30 that they moved away from bareknuckle or rope binding their hands to Western boxing gloves to make it more appeling to the rest of the world. So all fundamental techniques is based from fighting without gloves.
I love what one have done with the small gloves. Its give it a bigger mainstream addience and combined with no wai kru and removal of the traditional music its easier for many to watch it
My biggest problem with how One does their Muay Thai fights is how little clinch work they allow, the officials break that shit up quick.
They allowed plenty of clinching in today’s fight hahaha. Maybe because of this lawsuit
Stole my comment!
Exactly! How does "Global Rules Muay Thai" differ from Kickboxing then?
@@Ed7501 no elbows no clinching in kickboxing. Also no knees in most kickboxing formats other than k1 and in ONE FC knees are also allowed. Also no sweeps, no throws in kickboxing.
This. They break up the clinch too quickly but they have the audacity to promote grappling at Lumpinee where they’re rolling around or mounted on another 5min at a time. Gtfo
In today’s fight (One Lumpinee) they allowed plenty of clinching. I like the 4oz gloves because it makes sense for clinching. I think the gloves changes the sport for the good.
Chatri grew up in Bangkok and Onefc works closely with the thai government. So it’s not exactly a foreigner “going into somebody’s home & appropriating it.”
The only thing I would change is bring back that traditional Muay Thai music! Maybe get a live band going 😂
The music is ass and all that nonsense about “appropriating” is just woke crap. The only thing which ONE shouldn’t do is change the clinching rules
My thoughts exactly. Chatri is a Thai who grow up in Thailand and fought Muay Thai there. He’s the owner he’s the founder and chairman of One. The small gloves, in my opinion are much more in line with Muay Thai I think. Just look at the Kard Chuek, the rope wraps they sometimes use. Those seem like they would be even more devastating than small gloves.
Please! Not that "egk egk ting ting tong tong" Thai music! I rather have hardcore techno like those played in some agogo bars. But I can understand not everyone shares my taste.
I don’t think the gloves changes for the good. Yes it is good for clinching, but kicks are also catched way too easily. In combination with only three rounds I see a shift to more boxing in a lot of fights, probably due to this. If I want to see boxing I’d rather watch real boxing and not the often wild swinging in One (of course a generalization).
@@JD-oe5uc not all of them are three rounds. Many of their matchups are 5 rounds. The gloves IMO feel more similar to fighting with Kard Chuek (rope wraps)
I'm glad this is coming to light. I hate how refs break up clinches in OneFC likes they're reffing a kickboxing bout
Who cares, I like that it's different. They just need to call it something else, not just Muay Thai.
Exactly Its just become K1 with elbows
Actually if you watch lethwei and muay thia fights clinching gets broken up faster unless your off the ropes and can make your opponent move while in clinche and throwing knees and elbows. The refs in one breaking up the clinches are correct. What I don't like is how they don't do the dance at the beginning before the fight and they take head dress off before the dance.
And they don't seal the ring off
When's the last time you see clinching ends in a KO. I remembered only once. It's a waste of time and Onefc is right to keep it brief. If you want to see more clinch, then it should progress to grappling like in MMA. This is martial arts; not human cock fighting!
I understand the sentiment of the Lawsuit but from what I've gathered the current rules are part of the Problem, as well as obviously corruption, fixed fights and good fighters fighting tomato cans to pad their record e.t.c, making the current state of Muay Thai similar to the problems International Boxing has currently. I've heard Yodmuay from the Golden Age complain about exactly that i.e the sport basically devolving into point fighting, no longer striking with power and no longer fighting good opponents. Maybe what ONE is doing with smaller gloves and more intuitive rules is exactly what the sport needs. I mean originally Muay Thai was fought with ropes or only handwrappings wasn't it? The gloves and current rules were only added later to make the sport more accesible to an international audience in the first place right? So in a way making the gloves smaller is almost like a step back towards the origins. imho.
Excellent argument
Well said!
Yeah I like the smaller gloves too. When I first heard about the small gloves I though it would be interesting because it gives so much more grip for clinching. One fc seems to be pretty anti grappling in general though. They effectively turned clinch into a scramble by both to throw as many knees as they can before it gets broken up.
I dont think I have ever seen a bad mismatch in a stadium fight, its nothing like boxing where that is so common its the norm. I remember Samart complaining about the way fights are scored and Deiselnoi saying dumps score too much, but I dont think the solution is to jump to ONE's model where they just score it like its an MMA fight. Remember the reason the scoring has shifted in the direction it has is to prioritize clearly scoring techniques over a flurry of punches that maybe did 5 damaging blows or maybe did zero.
Also the point of the lawsuit is not to stop ONE's ruleset, its simply to label it properly. Sparkling wine from Calfornia is amazing, many prefer it to Champagne, but you still shouldnt call it champagne when its not. I agree with the boxing association guy, what ONE is selling is sparkling kickboxing.
Interesting take. I would wager that working for Mr Chatri pays better on a per fight basis, too
I prefer Muay Thai in the smaller gloves, but wish ONE would let them clinch longer. Smaller gloves would allow for better clinchwork, also increases the skill required to win the fight.
Full Muay Thai rules, but with MMA gloves would be ideal. Best rule set, plus opportunities for more technical clinchwork and KO's
100% just need to make the refs allow more clinching
@@williamcomyn5948 that would legit be good
@@williamcomyn5948 it's one think that really annoys the hell out of me. The fighters get broken apart as soon as they even start thinking about clinching. The people who made these rules probably confused MT clinchwork with boxing clinch.
Bingo! I always thought that was the point of the smaller gloves, too
As a Khun Khru in Muay Thai in the Thai Boxing Association I kinda wish this litigation wasn't happening at all. I can understand the desire to preserve the art of Muay Thai, and to make sure that the culture is shared. I respect that, and as someone who has spent over a decade loving Muay Thai I too want the brand, identity, and culture to be preserved. But culture is meant to be shared, and MT is bigger than me, it's bigger than OneFC, and it's now bigger than Thailand.
I think this runs a risk of making Muay Thai split, and the moment it splits is the same moment it allows more actual bad imposters of MT to take its spot. I don't want to see something "International Muay Thai" and "National Muay Thai", or anything like that. That's the gap that allows for others who don't have real lineage in it to now say "I'm a Muay Thai teacher" cause they've done kickboxing for 2 years.
But if anyone is pretending I can't go to certain gyms in Thailand for the best Elbows, other gyms for the best Kicks, other gyms in Thailand for the best Knees, other gyms in Thailand for the best grappling, and other gyms in Thailand for the best Boxing you're insane. The beauty of the art is that there is more than one way to interpret and deliver it. Some of us like to focus on different aspects of the art and that's OK, it doesn't mean that someone that specializes in elbow strikes is a bad Muay Thai artist by any means. I fear this type of lawsuit runs the risk of one day having actual systems based strictly on "Muay Thai Elbows" or "Muay Thai Kicks" and leave the rest of the art and culture behind.
If there was one, singular thing I would ask OneFC to do that they do not is to allow for the Wai Khru Ram Muay, the ceremonial dance that Thai Fighters do before a bout. It only takes a few minutes, but that dance is sacred to the art. I wish that we would see the ceremony performed before matches the way we're meant to at least on Muay Thai specific fights with Muay Thai specific rules.
Edited to Add: As an aside, I really like the OneFC. They're promoting much closer to real Muay Thai fights than I can see in basically any other venue right now. The Muay Thai that UFC fighters do as an example... is so far removed from Muay Thai style that there's not much point in calling it Muay Thai. This authority needs to do a better job of finding a way to allow me to pay to watch stuff like the Prince's Cup or the King's Cup tournaments to promote the art in the most pure way rather than do anything negative to one of the only real promotions that's doing so much to show pretty darn to close to real Muay Thai internationally.
Muay Thai in UFC cannot be integral Muay Thai because well... it's MMA.
I loved it when Nong-O did the ceremonial dance before his fight recently at One FC, I think that was apparently the first time it was done at One Championship.
@@umbrellastation25 No, of course not, but to call MMA striking anything other than MMA striking at this point is almost silly. Regardless of the original art most fighters standup is nearly identical these days. I think my biggest disappointment with the UFC was never really getting to see stuff all Bloodsport style--see Capoeira versus Monkey Style Kung Fu, see Kickboxing versus Muay Thai, watch Pankration versus MMA, watch Kung Fu versus Karate, it's just always MMA versus MMA. To be totally honest, it's one of the things that I absolutely enjoy better about OneFC than UFC is that I can do something like watch a pure Jiu Jitsu match there.
@@umbrellastation25 you cannot integrate any martial art in its pure form in mma. That's the magic. Unless your striking makes room for grappling or vice versa, you're going down hard.
I never thought about it like that
Chatri said Gambling is ruining Muay Thai as well, First 2 rounds is useless jsut for the gamblers and doesnt focus on whose best fighter. Thats why 3 rounds is used for the ONE platform and makes them fight.
muay thai with the small gloves make so much more sense then the big gloves when it relates to clinch work
One Championship is making what was once a niche thing much more common place. With the benefit of having more eyes on the sport naturally comes the cons and in this case the cons are the evolution or altering of the sport for a broader audience. The changing of the equipment and rules, the lack of doing the wai kru, the faster pace, etc. Its not necessarily a bad thing. I think we just need to have traditional rules vs western rules just like mma and kickboxing have different rule sets
They made it popular at the cost of watering it down to "Kickboxing With Elbows".
@Oodles of Noodles I was specifically satirising their lack of clinch work.
@Oodles of Noodles Nope.
But then non-Thai fighters would much less likely to compete in full muay thai rule thus less international super fight, which defeat the purpose.
@@Vithedel not sure about that, since a lot of Western fighters are training in Thailand nowadays.
I personally love the 4oz gloves. Its a common misconception that they increase knockouts, all data shows they greatly reduce concussions. However I don't like how they limit clinch, almost always making the fighters break up straight away. With that it feels like they're taking away a key element of muay thai.
TRUE! And the ILLNESS of not allowing Clinchwork is spreading like Covid around the world now..
Clinchwork should be given a chance by all means, if you wana call it "Muay Thai"
Where is this data you speak of?
Show me the data
If anyone doesn't want to read the study and find comparisons, the rate of concussions for boxing is 14.7%, the rate for mma is 12-6% and for bare knuckle it's 3.2%. So even adjusting for mma's rule set you see the trend of smaller gloves means less concussions
IM NOT THAT GOOD IN MATH...
but if Gabriel Varga could punch with 200psi of power..
With Gabe's power, My head would appreciate 4oz of Gloves on top of that punch RATHER than 12oz more..
All the Power plus the wieght OUT FROM THE VOLUME (ounce)
If that makes sense..
I really wish they'd allow more clinching and throws/sweeps. Otherwise I really enjoy OneFC.
Smaller gloves or even the removal of gloves actually reduces the incidence of knockouts when compared to bigger gloves
Yep
Based on that I think it would be interesting to let fighters choose their gloves. I would be happy to have my opponent wear big gloves because they think it increases their ability to knock out, while Im bare knuckle or thin gloves. Would you be happy to fight someone that has no gloves or think gloves while you have big gloves?
@@brandonpearman9218 no gloves makes superficial damage like cuts and grazes more likely. Gloves makes knockouts and brain trauma more likely.
I know my choice.
It’s great that One FC is coming to Thailand , the Thai fighters get a chance to finally get paid what they deserve. Which is probably the bigger issue , why would they want to continue to fight in local promotions if One pays much higher purses … that’s what they are really afraid of. The only thing that is disappointing about One FC is that they break up the clinch too quickly so we can’t see as many throws which the Thais are so good at
Amazing! I never knew about Thai specific scoring rules but it makes so many things make sense now!
I think keeping the traditional rule set would be interesting in One FC but I’m sure there would be lots of scoring controversies as a result. Unless they had match-specific judges and made a huge push to clarify the rules to the general public.
Regarding glove sizes, I’m a bit more ambivalent… I don’t like seeing guys like Mini T just pulping someone face but I’m also not sure bigger gloves are make or break in the equation.
Thanks for the thought-break!
I'll give a perspective from someone who is completely new to watching the sport competitively.
ONE FC is what got me into Muay Thai as of the past 4-6 months. It looks incredibly exciting. I guess I started watching at the right time to understand the cultural and historical aspects of the sport because of this current battle. Thank you for the explanation of the rule sets.
I'm curious to learn more and watch more outside of one and do more self reflection on what cultural appropriation looks like as I get into the sport a lot more.
I love how they promote muay thai to the world, but I don't like how they change things up. For example, the refs break fighters while they are exchanging elbows and knees in the clinch. Sometimes I think the muay thai of ONEFC is just kickboxing with elbow.
ONE FC's muay thai??? Do you approve or not??
It lacks many elements of traditional muay thai but is putting the sport on the world stage.
I prefer it with small gloves honestly, it’s not traditional and that causes a lot of the betters to lose money on it, but I don’t care. It causes you to be more skilled with your shots and defensive rather than big gloves saving you every time.
I think them having the different rule set....... and being less corrupt on the gambling side..... is a good thing for thai land.
Also in traditional thai land rules, punches are scored the least because of the padded gloves. Would this not round out the scoring system then to have smaller gloves
Its clinch rule that i was dissagree the others is acceptable tho
I feel like they should highlight that they're using a different ruleset, maybe a little abbreviation before it to stand for something like OneFC Muay Thai. What could be cool is if they held a few traditional Muay Thai fights to still promote the original ways without giving up what they normally do.
I’m Thai and I feel nonsense for this. Wai Kru is good and I’m pround of our culture but it’s not that serious and no needs to sue for this.
In my opinion. Muay Thai sport in Thai culture has many things that worse than that. They bounded everything in Muay Thai fight with gamblings at the ringside. Even the one who does better can lose if gamblers don’t want him to win. They sue One FC for not put “Wai Kru” in all of their fights but they ignored terrible gambling system.Such a shame.
Are we certain though that the smaller gloves lead to more brain damage? They might do a bit more of immediate damage but if softer gloves lead to longer fights with more blows to the head it might not be an advantage. That whole area of combat sports is still woefully understudied.
It seems that bare-knucle leads to less damage. You risk breaking your hand in every full-force punch, so, especially if going for the head, you do not strike with all your might
No we aren’t certain and it has already been proven that the damage is the same, if not less with smaller gloves.
In this specific case I think it does because it means Muay Thai fighters punch a lot more than they otherwise would Muay Thai gloves make both sides a lot more kick happy the bigger gloves are why boxing has more brain damage for the reason you said but in Thai I think smaller gloves leads to a higher volume of head punches and thus more head injury
Big gloves equates to more force I think. Power = mass x speed after all. Bigger gloves increase the mass of your hands
@@M3Lucky big gloves let you hit harder without hurting your hand as much so when people have them they tend to blast you really hard when they get the chance harder than you would in 4oz gloves because your more likely to hurt if not break it and big boxing gloves have a much larger surface area 4oz mma gloves have a much smaller surface area so they travel faster and object that moves faster usually hits harder than a bigger object going the same speed bullets aren't very big for example
That's interesting. Yeah, I had one class of Thai Boxing . It was too brutal, with sparring before even the rules had been explained . Looking online , I noticed a great website with Amateur and Professional rules . A very interesting read however , I can not find that site again. 🎉 Best wishes . 🎉
I love muay thai regardless of what rule sets or gloves what I love about one fc is that they were able to bring all of the best muay Thai fighters into one promotion and have all them compete and also gives these fighters the recognition and pay they deserve
I like how they use the small gloves. It's great for elbows, clinching, catching kicks, and IMO can actually make an aggressive puncher slow down and pick their shots instead of fully unloading. If you punch the wrong spot you could easily break your hand.
I hope to see One incorporate more Wai Kru and other traditional elements to honor the sport. I get that they need to make it fast paced for TV, but perhaps they can allow that just for championship fights. Also, let the fighters work in the clinch!!
I saw a video by a famous Thai muay thai practitioner that said gambling was ruining Muay Thai in Thailand, something about big gyms and corruption.
Well, they could give it a different name. There are other names given to other combat sports that share similar aspects: Muay Thai, kard cheuk (rope boxing), lethwei, and kickboxing. Maybe One Championship could go with the common nomenclature of "Thai Boxing", to differentiate
MMA gloves are great in my opinion. Anything that makes the fight more "realistic" is something I like. I would even prefer bareknuckle. They really should allow more clinch work though.
I like the ONE muay thai a bit more than traditional muay thai, though it is very easy to see both sides of the argument. The only thing missing is the amount of clinch work
I dont have a clear answer about the ruleset but the fights in one are so good and its realy turning a lot of people on to the sport. In general one has incredible strikers
Honestly I see your point on the smaller gloves it makes it easier to win if you're aggressive and reckless but I just feel like you have to be more dynamic with blocking when using small gloves, and it leads to amazing fluid looking defense when done well. Just personal preference I can definitely see the issue with it for shelling up but I like the entertainment value.
I watched a real mauy thai fight and almost fell asleep. I totally understand why they are pissed at ONE FC for making it basically the mcdonalds of Mauy thai. I had no idea why in the real sport they just stand and stare at each other, but now it makes a lot more sense
I done a judging course a few months back. It was really interesting to learn the ideas behind scoring. Like Gabriel said, if I kick & you block & return, you win. The "kick is king" idea too, if I throw 3 punches & you land one kick, you win. They talked about physical & psychological reactions to shots ie wobbly legs, turning away/avoidance & not returning shots being a sign of losing fighter while dominance in clinch, trips/throws, returning shot & effective blocks winning fights.
I think One FC could raise the profile/popularity of Mauy Thai by increasing exposure to more fans. I thought the absence if the Wai Kru was strange as it is a huge part of the sport. I think with collaboration they could work together to pay respects to thr sport while promoting it to a wider audience.
Yeah, everyone knows the Muay Thai we do outside of Thailand is nothing like the real thing over there. Not sure how suing ONE helps to further Thai boxing’s cause though. Chatri is a very good guy too, and a Thai national. Nothing like that crook White.
Your mic is sounding perfect today btw. 👌🙏
Hey is there any chance you could do a video on the low kicking technique of Hajime Kazumi?
He’s a 7th Dan in Kyokushin and has won matches against Francisco Filho and Glaube Feitosa. He was often called “the strongest man in Kyokushin” with his specialty being Gedan Mawashi Geri. He even has done the 100 man kumite, which can be viewed on UA-cam.
I've always been on the fence about the MMA gloves for Muay Thai. You may get more connections from punches, but you also open up the issue for eye pokes. And limitations to the clinch are absolutely ridiculous. Limited clinching is just essentially K1 rules with elbows.
Talking specifically about their Muay Thai fights, I sincerely think that they are ruining muay thai. They barely allow clinch... they get like 3 seconds in clinching and the ref separates the fighters; they changed the amount of rounds, type of gloves, scoring systems and the worst thing that I've seen while watching ONE FC'S event today: they only allowed few fighters to get up in the ring with their mongkong, one of the fighters was apparently told not to go up the ring w it by the cutman.
Why is it so hard to respect one's culture? Not only ONE FC, but many organisations around the world change the rules and call it "muay thai". In South America, there are countless events that claim to be Muay thai, but they do not allow Elbows.
The small gloves makes Muay Thai much more functional. It isn't about more knockouts, it is about making it a more effective marial art. Now you don't just have boring shelling up, you have to be much more evasive.
It's really simple, just follow the money... ONE, as an outside company, showcases many Thai champions and has a vast international audience reach. Doing these promotions in Thailand cuts into "Boxing Association of Thailand" promotions/profits and they don't like it so they're demanding ONE to pay them more. Their excuses about the gloves, rules, etc are just a cover.
If they really cared about preserving the art, they would ban betting, fight fixing, etc
Bro I 100% agree with you. I went pro in Muay Thai and mma, and most non fighters don’t get it. No one cares about the longevity of the fighters, they just want brutality.
I love ONE FC, got into Muay Thai because of Tawanchai videos in ONE FC and had no idea until I started training that you're supposed to use boxing gloves and not MMA gloves in muay thai lol.
Honestly ONE FC gets it. They get right how to appeal to the western market. They make Muay Thai more appealing for the average viewer and as with most things, when you make your product more appealing to the general public, you're going to piss the niche audience that loves the traditional way
I've never used the small gloves but I think I'd like them 'cause they make the clinch a bit more fun.
They should call it something else but similiar. "Muay ONE", "ONE-Muay Thai-style" etc. etc. Something to show where the sport comes from but also highlights that it's not the classic vanilla version.
It's all about money; as to even define what muaythai is, is very troublesome with all the styles in and outside of Thailand and also you gotta think muaythai used and still is in some rural states fought with rope like wrapping instead of gloves and some rule sets allow or used to allow groinstrikes and even headbutts 😑
What do you think about the idea that more hand protection equates to more CTE in general in a combat sport?
I think ONE is doing a great job at making Muay Thai into a more popular sport. But I can also understand from a Thai perspective where the clinch is minimized and used 3 round rule to make it more exciting will seem foreign to traditional Thai promoters. However I do want to point it out that this can be an intended attack from various interest groups like gamblers and gyms who rely on gambling is heavily damaged as it become harder to manipulate the fight outcome as oppose to 5 round rule. Also with smaller gloves and bonus system, fighters tend to go in guns blazing right away which changes the appreance of the sport. I think these r the real issues.
On one hand I do love what ONE is doing with how many eyes they are bringing to Thai boxing and the Nak Muay that deserve far far more attention
Tho watching the friday night fight series that ONE are putting on I was disappointed to firstly see MMA fights being held in Lumpinee but also to see that only a very small amount of the fights actually had a wai kru ram muay beforehand, it felt very watered down when it came to the traditional side of Muay Thai.
Hello Gabriel,
I am living in Thailand and watching Muay Thai right now. They fight without gloves in some events. I try to figure out the name of the place but it's in kolat, Issan. Seems still traditional Muay Thai without gloves is being practiced.
They just mad ONE pays Thai fighters good and doesn't allow for the corruption you see in the stadiums every weekend
The small gloves are necessary in light of the rise of MMA to pull in more audience; casuals might see traditional muaythai as a lesser combat sport with the big gloves, ie real fighters fight in MMA gloved. Also, smaller gloves force a fighter to be more dynamic with their defence and footwork as opposed to just stand there absorbing shots with big gloves on. So that s a plus for the evolution of muaythai fighters as modern martial artists and athletes. And when it comes to a street fight, i wouldnt want to instinctively rely on the false sense of security from big gloves, ie small gloves also make me a better street fighter. My only complaint is that ONE FC should have allowed fighters to perform a full wai kru instead of the shortened version we get now
They are going for US market.
I'm a bit curious, have (any of) you saw an obese person starting a martial art? I want to get back to mma but after I stopped I literally kept eating the same without any of the training I used to do and now it seems impossible to get back to it
I have no problem with professional MT fights switching to 4oz gloves.
Makes fighting more realistic.
Look at Lethwei - no gloves, just wraps, only KO to win - now that is something I see as too brutal and gravely dangerous for the fighters.
I'am gen Z from Thailand who love watching Muay thai and combat sport I just want to say that I love ONE championship rules so much more than the original one no grambing , not too much on clinching and dancing.
I believe style and difficulty is also a judging criteria as in if you throw a head kick and land but I throw a spinning heel kick to the head and land (both same power) the one who threw the spinning technique would score more points because he executed the more difficult move.
Hey Gabriel! I must say that i really like to hear your in depth analysis of technical- and political-topics such as this one.
I've been training martial arts from a young age starting out doing Fencing and Kung Fu in 1999 a trainer opened a Martial arts School and he had travled to Thailand, Russia, The Fillipines and In Sweden we got Shootfighting from Japan before BJJ came here a decade later.
Shootfighting is for amateurs to learn 6 Oz MMA gloves one 5 min round, 8-Count, scoring was effective striking, Standing-Grappling and grappling, however if you did not show proficiency in all three Areas and say avoid grappling and strike you have to outclass the opponent to win.
This ruleset is great to learn to compete but as I became more serious I did a minor in Advanced PE 600 Hours ontoo of the 200 ordinary, it just so happened At my school the Junior Judo national Team also studied A. PE so coming from this MA background, I developed a great ground game with takedowns, clinch, plum standing Kimuras flying kneebars etc. But standig I could feel uneasy so at 18 I had decided to travel to Thailand and train Muay Thai in order to gain confidence.
I fell innlove with Muay Thai, the people the culture, the gym and how they approach the sport (it is so much more in Thailand).
I forst now heard this about western MT rules scoring like Kickboxing. As all my fights where legacy rules I find this to be wrong.
Muay thai is the sport-version of Muay Boran (Thai armys MA for centuries before modern warfare). In 1920 The king created Muay Thai as a sport.
The rules are very much based on balance, composure, controlling your space, winning exchanges, and striking with force, as I was told and read: in the 1300's you would fight in a column as a unit and being able to force yourself forward controlling space with balance and composure at the same time denying every effort from the incoming enemy while debalancing them.
I love this concept and I spent two years at that gym.
Now to the news. I watch One FC and I love it (I hate UFC and miss Pride FC and K-1) I really like that they have several rulesets because there is so much to learn from a simple thing like smalller gloves.
Like you pointed out blocking is different, yes I hated sparring with 16 Oz gloves as I trained with 6Oz MMA gloves and head gear I had to find other openings even create them.
As far as not using the name MT I agree that it is not right because it has such a rich cultural heretige and os very dear to Thai culture.
I remember my first fight in Muay t.Thai asking about the ruleset and I was told: Until the referee stops you can attack any target, I started asking about stomps to the feet and other things it was there I developed my striking from a carcrash to an art.
I love different rules and one FC but if They say you cqbt call it Muay Thai change it Muay Falang or whatever :P
IMO One could keep the gloves, but embrace the rule set. It wouldn't hurt their sport, but would allow for more people to enjoy the real scoring of a MT fight.
I don't know anything about the court system in Thailand, but in many places the court expects parties to try to work out their differences before filing a lawsuit. That part of the story piques my curiosity the most. What discussions has the Thai Boxing Assn had with One Championship? What did they request, and what was Mr Chatri's answer?
The biggest issue that i see at ONE FC is them taking out the clinch, clinch is like 50% of the muay thai game, you hold people to hurt them with elbows and/or knee, its not muay thai anymore If u take out the clinch, its like if someone take out ground and grapling game out of MMA and still calling it MMA, or take out the punchs of the kickboxing. Its kinda no sense to be honest
To be honest I do like one FC's style of Muay Thai.
When I first heard the rule change of the gloves I got to thinking maybe they're trying to make it similar to the old days of Muay Thai back when boxing gloves were not a thing.
Back then muay thai fighters actually wrapped their hands in thick rope. the reason why they abolished that rule was because someone got killed in a fight.
But I do have to admit Mr. Varga you proved a valid point that there are more chances that a person can achieve a knockout or landing hits. Especially when the fighter is aggressive.
But as always great content.
I love what One is doing, personally never thought about how Thai people would feel about the change in rules… it never offended me personally but this argument makes sense, so now I can agree. Call it something slightly different, but keep it going. Viewers enjoy it, athletes have the option to compete and make good money
I think the tradition of Muay Thai is one that should be preserved but I also thing change is part of our evolution. the things that work best won't never change I think in 100 years besides becoming more technical in different ways muay Thai will always be instantly recognizable
Allow clinch and have more of the cultural elements but i like the 4oz change up and keeping things a little bit different.
In their last tournament also the rules changed between different fights. Some MT fights were only 3 rounds and no throws, which is more kickboxing than MT. 3 rounds also favors the wild/pressure fighters which I don’t like. It seems it is all about ‘more actions’ which take away the technique and art MT.
As for the gloves I like the classic ones just for the tradition and looks, but I totally understand the use of MMA gloves since clinching is such an important part of Muay Thai and it's a little harder to grab someone with boxing gloves.
As for the rule set, I knew that in Thailand the rules were different but I didn't knew to which extend, and I understand that boxing scoring is way more easier to understand, but also I understand the importance of tradition and trying to differentiate the sport as much as you can, so I guess, yeah, keep the traditional ruleset of Muay Thai but I don't mind the 4 oz gloves
I think it's worth noting that Chatri (CEO/Founder of One) is from Thailand. Born and raised....
Correct me if I am wrong; the concussive effect of small gloves is no worse than big gloves. But the two significant differences being that small gloves will cause more localised trauma (IE cuts) and offer less protection in terms of blocking opponents shots.
thx for the info.
i hate this small gloves.
I think muay thai in the cage and not in the ring is a step in the wrong direction, the bueaty of muay thai is the capacity of expression of the art itself in the ring, and using small gloves that let you finish the fight with a single cross or a cage that let you run during all the rounds in circle ruining the rythm (see lasiri vs rodtang for example) is something that limits a true nak muay. don’t let this art become a rumble. Keep it beautiful, keep it muay thai.
Agreed the circle cage detracts, so.e good exchanges come off the ropes and corner
If they're going to have the small gloves they should allow more clinch. From what I hear in one fc they don't allow clinch the same as they do in MT
I’m a big fan of One FC and everything they do. I always assumed that they decided to go with small gloves to visually differentiate between their Muay Thai and Kickboxing matches.
I can also see the other side of the coin, but at the end I think there is room for both.
Oye Gabriel, saludos! Cómo saliste tan rubillo con ese apellido? De dónde es tu familia Varga? Un saludo desde Taiwán!
I think this a bump in the evolution in the sport. I think as the generations start to pass on their wisdom, we are going to see a shift in striking styles to accommodate for the smaller gloves. I understand the concern for lack of technique and I think there’s going to be a drop off at first until innovation becomes the norm. Look at BJJ 10 years ago, no leg locks it took away from the art and today it’s normal. Kickboxing in the 80’s-90’s didn’t believe in leg kicks now finding a striking gym that doesn’t teach leg kicks is almost unheard of or at least how to address them. MMA has had its progression as well. On of the problems Thailand is going to have is can they make events with enough income to match ONE and can they keep trainers from teaching styles with smaller gloves. If you can make $50,000US in a fight not including your show up bonus, why would you fight in Thailand for a few hundred Baht. If you own a gym and people are coming from out of the country to train with you, are you going to cater to them for financial reasons or keep it traditional? It’ll be interesting to see how it plays out
I feel like the small gloves allow for a different type of artistry while definitely not providing the same type of shield that the big gloves do, but you would know better than I.
The small gloves are nice, but they should allow more clinching.
I personally don't have a problem with the small gloves however onefc does have a problem with breaking up clinch work too fast imo. If you ever seen a traditional Muay Thai ruleset you see fights stay in the clinch for almost the full round.
Let people work the clinch
There are some promotions in Thailand that make fights with ropes on the fists, so the mma gloves are less or equal dangerous. The absence of waikru in One is a problem in the sense of tradition, but is better for worldwide audience, so I think the is the whole conflict of old vs new muay thai
I personally like the smaller gloves. I think it actually favours fighters who are more elusive as you can’t rely on the block all the time (like Dutch kickboxing). In any case in boxing with the bigger gloves, fighters tend to take more shots which is way worse for the fighters.
Is the gambling aspect in Muay Thai also another reason for the suing because gambling is heavily influenced in large portions of most Muay Thai bouts?
The beauty of a sport is connected with the rule set, 4 once gloves turn the sport into a brawl too often...
Can't really judge because i haven't seen the ruleset for the thai's. I can see the criteria for One's on their website but honestly it's not really clear, like the clinch time are different each time
Really weird time to sue tho since the announcement for One having a lot of fights this year in thailand had been said (iirc) months ago
Well, i have to say, i love what One has done, because Actually i think it has help to promote the sport... So maybe not to change the sizes of the gloves... But that it
commenting early, so maybe you say that are doing this...BUT, are they also suing Fairtex and Lumpinee then? Entertainment style May Thai events are being put on by Fairtex, Max Muay Thai, RWS, etc every week in Thailand. Are they really only targeting One because they aren't always wearing Thai trunks and doing a Way Kru?
I know the big gloves can be used as shields in a way, but don't they protect the hand of the puncher more than they protect the guy getting hit?
Muay Thai fights on OneFC are def different but I like that they're making it more mainstream. I'm all for tradition though so let's see what happens....
Honestly I can’t really say if it’s good or bad, cause if you look at traditional Thai fights back in the old days they wrapped their hands in rope and used to fight that way, so are the 4 ounce gloves really any different from the old ways? I will say this I watched one of rodtangs fights in one fc and he looked amazing.
a big problem is they let little clinch work happen so it basically turns into kickboxing with elbows weve seen muay khaos have to switch up there style for ones rules
Respect is the Key.
I like the 4 oz gloves. It adds techniques more applicable to self defense situations. I thinks it’s more similar to ancient Thai boxing that used Muay Thai ropes. I believe that wasn’t technically Muay Thai, but instead Muay Kard Chuek or Muay Boran. I do wish One would allow them to do more in the clinch. I understand it’s less exciting for most viewers, but those who know the sport appreciate the clinch. As for the tradition and rules, maybe One needs to give it a different name if not honoring the tradition of the sport. Might be the respectful thing to do. Like Jiu Jitsu. Not all Jiu Jitsu can be called Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. I think there was some controversy over 10th Planet and what Eddie Bravo was doing with Jiu Jitsu that has some similarities.
I totally respect the Thai rules but the western rules makes more sense to me, but I prefer the big gloves 16oz, those mma gloves naaaaaaaa, also I miss the catch the kick and sweep, that rule against that is so lame…
One fc is more exciting than traditional Muay Thai for the average fan. I love both but the casuals would not
A side note what would you think if they ever got rid of gloves and hand wraps completely
I agree! I said from the beginning, that ONE FC Muay Thai was more like kickboxing with elbows. They hardly allow any clinching at all, the traditional music is not played, etc. I enjoy watching it a lot, but I still strongly prefer real, traditional Muay Thai.
Old traditional is boring.
@@peterlee6148 What a profound statement. You definitely changed my mind with that masterpiece.....
I do feel that the clinching is cut short a bit. Traditional muay thai probably goes a bit long with it, but I do think it could be extended as long as there is activity. I probably prefer normal gloves, but its not a deal breaker. I think they are making such a big noise about it because ONE is growing quite nicely. Rajadamnern Stadium recently held a World Series competition and they too switched to 3 rounds, and Max Muay Thai, another local promotion uses the smaller gloves. I'm sure nothing was said about them. Overall ONE is doing a great job in spreading the sport and actually getting them paid really well compared to the other options.
There's also this Muay Thai promotion that uses hand wraps. Was it Thai Fight?
Gabriel What do you recommend I have a national championship after 15 days
train hard
I love both they’re just different things with different rules sets, one c Muay Thai is basically K1 rules with knees & elbows ,minimum clinch & mma gloves…. If you love kick-boxing you’ll love One C Muay Thai….
I love the small gloves. I wish they would let them clinch longer in one championship. I think small glove defense is something that combat sports needs to figure out and i don’t think mma will diue to takedowns
I think we can all agree that tradition muay thai rules are a mess. Like you said, it's even very hard to get any complete written version of the rules not compiled by a foreigner. Even many Thais want to improve it - Rajadamnern is now trying to modernize the sport with their Rajadamnern World Series, which uses a 10-point round-based scoring system and encourages knockouts.
I'm cool with the small gloves, however the clinch game isn't favoured or even see ever. Like we don't see many muay khoa now
i love seeing one fc muay thai fights with the 4 oz gloves, idk how to compare it to traditional muay thai though because i dont really wanna see them dance for 10 mins but thats just me
The smaller gloves reflect back to the origins of Muay Thai with Muay Boran and their rope hand wraps, imo
I am not a fan of the trend where a established word is being changed to something else. The world is going to hell in a handbag because of people not understanding what words mean anymore.
If it doesn't have the same attributes as the original than it must be called something else.
Nowadays people can't even identify what a woman is 😑