had anyone ever considered something simple yet overlooked . Just because a stargate is a older design doesn't always mean it a older stargate. Destiny has seed ships going ahead of it to plant stargates.. I have a theory they "used" a older design as it was just easier to get resources from places it was going. a simpler design that could be mass produced compared to the newer ones that took considerably more rare materials.
YES, EXACTLY!! I've long thought that it was probably a question of ruggedness. Maybe the "Cadillac" fancy gates of the Milky Way and Pegasus require a small amount of occasional maintenance, but the seed ships' simpler gates were intended to sit there for many hundreds of thousands of years before any Ancients would ever even visit that galaxy, much less settle in to do any maintenance work.
Came to basically say this. I'd say Destiny is between 40 and 45 million years old. They've used the older gates on her because of her mission. They are not gates meant to be a "functioning network". They were for resource collection etc. The older design doesn't mean they were older gates.
I always wished the Eden aliens restored Destiny like they did the shuttle for the crew. Would look brand new, everything would work on the ship, life support all over, fully working ftl engine and they'd be able to check out every compartment that was off limits due to damage and no life support.
1. There would have to be some logical reason why the Planet Builders would do something like that. For Kane and the others on the shuttle, the reason was obvious - that there were these alien (human) bodies and alien technology littering up the fresh pristine landscape that was still in the middle of being built, and the Planet Builders were respectful enough to reunite the dead with their friends. Anything beyond that was not their business. 2. Plus, the crew would have to have full control over Destiny, which they didn't at that time, in order to get the ship to park itself somewhere near the Eden planet. 3. The crew had to know that the Planet Builders were coming back soon, and also know that they would be in a benevolent mood when they arrived. Remember how afraid Eli and some others were at the prospect of meeting the aliens if they should come back to Eden?
It's not unreasonable to think that over the millennia there might have been extinction level events that caused a partial reset, wars famines etc that slowed some progress, sped up others, separated civilisations etc, that's the joy of Stargate, there's so much unknown and off screen detail that is left to our imagination
The worst mistake in SGU regarding this is when Volker clearly says Destiny was travelling for "the better part of a million years". In my opinion that means the showrunners were definitely trying to retcon the age scale of all things Ancient down to a fraction of what they established previously. I think they went too far the first time giving everything an age of several million years, and then went too far the other direction trying to make it all less than one million years. Big mistakes on both ends. If Stargate comes back, they should retcon all of it to something reasonable in the middle.
everyone assumes the Ancients progressed at the same rate as current humans, they might have taken a much slower steady development instead of rapid leaps, especially if they on longer had wars to cause technological jumps like here on earth
We know that the gate technology on the destiny is the very first generation. I’ve always had it in my head cannon the the milk way gate network is actually the second gate network in the milky way that replace the first generation seen on the destiny. These new gates had better range and made sense to replace the gate in the Milky Way with the newer gates. They then designed a new gate network and where probably about to upgrade the Milky Way gate network before they have to leave the galaxy and instead took the new Pegasus gate with them. This explains to me why the Pegasus gates supersede the milky way gates as they where probably the original replacement. The reason I say this is because I believe the destiny is as old as the first gate network and was probably how they where able to create the original gate network in the Milky Way before the current network and this to me means that the destiny has the same age gap between it and the Milky Way gates as the Milky Way gates and Atlantis (which I consider the same age as the Pegasus gates). This has always been my head cannon
Actually, we don't know that Destiny's gates are the first generation. Just because something has a more primitive look and features doesn't mean it is more primitive, just that the Ancients chose the simpler design for the seed ships to build. Stargates, ring transporters, and communication stones are all technology found in the Ori galaxy as well as the Milky Way and Pegasus. This doesn't necessarily mean that all three technologies were developed in that galaxy before the Alterans left it several million years ago, but they PROBABLY all were. This means that the "first generation of stargates" was built in the Ori galaxy millions of years before Destiny was built. The great age of Destiny's look could just be a design choice, plus the fact that it is over a million years old with zero maintenance done. In the real world, there's a "steampunk" style movement in which some people like to decorate their modern electronics with brass bits to make them look like something out of the Victorian age. I've seen pictures of them - computer keyboards modded to look like a very old typewriter, for example. That doesn't make the device older and more primitive, it just looks like an antique.
It would make sense if the Galactic Stargate Networks in the Milky Way and Pegasus were created by automated seedships spreading out from a central staging area. The Ori copied the gate technology developed by the Alterans, meaning their network (assuming they actually have one) is younger than the Milky Way's.
remember sg1 stargate is 50 million years old according to sam carter, its not overblown as the alterans(ancients civilization, is 200 million years old with control of at least 4 galaxies
Destiny is about 40 million years old. Theyve used the older gate design on her because they were easier to make without naquadah being the main mineral. And the gates weren't meant to be a true gate network. The ancients arrived in the milky way about 50 million years ago with the stargate design already worked out - the ones we see on destiny. They may have used these gates for local travel at first then designed the milky way gates later. They then launched destiny sometime after using the original gate design. It dosnt really matter whether you think the timeline is "to long'. Thats what it is. No one on that ship knew how old destiny was. The anicnts built things to last. All of their technology is refinement to the point it can last for millions of years. Thats just what is shown. The ice the oldest gate was found in was about fifty million yeasr old. The timeline adds up well. And people assume technology and advancement is completely linear. How so? Because other sci fi shows show yearly updates and "advancements"? Like i said the ancients got to the stage where advancement was in making things last.
Destiny stargates could have been in use in the milky way. Then they could have been upgraded or replaced. That would explain why milky way gates can spin to dial, but the dhds could have been added as a upgrade later. Another thing I considered. What if atlantis was a generational ship because such huge distances would have taken time but over the millions of yeats since it left earth the engines were upgraded
The Destiny gate design isn't necessarily 'older'. Being remote gates for limited exploring, they'd likely be stripped down designs to save on materials and have fewer faults. So dating from gate designs isn't really viable. Where to look is when they started the quest for ascension. Destiny was built prior to that point, but far enough back to become 'old news' when they decided to follow that path. I mean the mission to explore the history of the universe....that'd be a bit hard to walk away from if it were fresh on their minds...or do they get the memo about that when they go 'Q'?
The only way the ship could have lasted that long was with a self repair functionality and obscene redundancy. Maybe the reason the Destiny was in as bad a shape as it was when the humans arrived, was because the self repair functionality had finally been lost... leaving only the redundancy to act as a buffer. I mean we did see "repair robots". But I don't know. There would have to be an automated system for acquiring materials, refining and manufacturing parts. Ancient technology is really robust but even Atlantis had some wear and tear that required physical repair and replacement of components. I mean maybe if there was some unknown element we never seen that had been maintaining things at a truly insane level. Fifty million years... we're talking a literal ship of Theseus situation... literally nothing of the original would have remained.
This is the one aspect of the whole SG universe that didn't make a lot of sense to me. 1`0p's of thousands, hundreds opf thousands, but millions of year, never felt right, like you said, it was just wayy too long.
I already shared what I think and why, before this video was released. Over a million years but somewhat less than two million. The Destiny AI said to Rush "over a million years", and this tracks perfectly with the speed of advancement we saw in the show's two seasons. It took the ship several months to finish crossing the first galaxy, then some unknown number of months to cross between galaxies, and the 3 years to finish crossing the Novan Galaxy and reach the next one. This works well with the estimate of the ship traveling several billion light-years from Earth and the million years'time frame. This allows Destiny to have visited about a half a million galaxies in that time span. If you try to match up the several billion light-years distance with the figure of 50 million years, then everything must have taken 50x as long as what we saw on the show. Instead of months or a year ish to cross a galaxy, you now have to accept it taking decades or more to cross each and every galaxy, and decades more to cross intergalactic distances. Utter nonsense! Some of the most canonical of canon we have is that the Ori galaxy has stargates, ring transporters, and communication stones that all seem to operate flawlessly with their counterparts in the Milky Way and Pegasus. This doesn't prove, but does very strongly suggest, that all three technologies were developed in the Ori galaxy before the split between the Ori and the Alterans (Ancients), when the latter fled their home several million years ago. The Ancients brought the knowledge of how to build all these things with them. The first time we're introduced to the communication stones is when Daniel and Vala use them to connect to the Ori galaxy. The fact that Destiny and the seed ships had more primitive, less capable gates has lead some fans to assume that they are much older than the Milky Way and Pegasus gates, but that isn't necessarily true. It just means that the generation of Ancients who built Destiny chose the more basic gate design for some reason. Maybe more complicated gates (just like more complicated versions of real-world machines, hint-hint!) require a degree of regular maintenance every few thousand years or whatever; and the more basic gates are naturally a lot more rugged than their fancier counterparts, the Cadillac gates of the Milky Way and Pegasus, where the Ancients actually were living and could provide that regular maintenance - if that's the reason. The Ancients launched all the seed ships many thousands of years before they had any intention of boarding Destiny or of moving into any of the galaxies visited by Destiny. Their ultimate plan might have been to colonize each galaxy along Destiny's path and seed it with human life, one at a time in sequence, just like they did with MW & P. Once they settled in a galaxy would be when it was time to expand and upgrade that galaxy's gate network. It was just unnecessary before then. Similarly, the Ancients were not just spacefarers when they built Destiny, but were intergalactic in their travels, and *had* been for several million years before Destiny. So I feel pretty confident in assuming that the Ancients had true hyperdrives long before they even fled the Ori galaxy, millions of years before Destiny. So why build Destiny with the slower FTL drives? Like with the gates, it could easily also be a question of ruggedness. Destiny and the seed ships were unmanned, so didn't need to be speed demons. Maybe hyperdrives need some form of maintenance that the ships' automation couldn't provide, but FTL drives are (comparatively speaking) utterly bulletproof? Or to quote the illustrious Montgomery Scott: "The more they overthink the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the drain."
how old destiny is and she's still up and running proves ancient tech design superiority over our tech design which build it and it's dead in less then a century most computers running 24/7 die after 10 to 20 years realistically few last longer then that one
I have to disagree with your age of the Destiny. 50 million years makes perfect sense to me. The Ancients left the Ori galaxy between 50 and 60 million years ago. I think it's safe to assume it was during that journey they discovered the signal that Destiny was created to seek out. I think they came up with the idea of the Destiny as they approached the Milky Way and their desire to start the project and get it moving was a factor in them choosing this galaxy to begin with. Technology-wise, the Destiny has all the hallmarks of an advanced, space-faring, very mortal species. The upgraded (I have to assume it was upgraded many times over the eons) Atlantis that we know is of a people that were starting to ascend. Think about how long a species must take to evolve to the point of being able to ascend to beings of pure energy. I think that 60 million years is actually pretty quick to go from reaching sentience to ascending, which means that 50 million might be on the young side for the potential age of Destiny.
I think Destiny could be much older than 50 million years. The initial assumption that the Ancients were the first species could be faulty. They could be the 2nd, 3rd, 10th set to evolve into a galaxy wide species. As each set of species evolve into ascended beings and left the galaxy empty again, the next generation set could take another 10's of millions of years to become a galactic species. That would explain the different gate designs and the differing jumps in technology. Then it would make sense that the signal they are trying to track down is from yet an even more ancient species that existed 7 to 10 billion years before (that then disappeared when they ascended). That would almost make the current universe basically a nursery for ascended beings to come into existence. We also know that there is a multiverse from the dimensional mirror episodes where there are variations in the universe. The next higher level could be where these ascended beings then progress to (almost like the different levels of ascension in Buddhism and Hinduism). That means Destiny could be potentially a billion years old.
All they have to do is mention in a new Stargate movie/series how off they were on the decay rate of naquadah and how it thru all their dating off. Maybe have Samantha Carter teaching some students about related material and have a chart the board showing the corrected dates.
a 50 million+ year old stargate network is possible. we don't know how long the Ancients have been around but they might not have constant technological advancement. they could have studied a entirely alternate branches of science for hundreds of thousands of years, stagnated or slowed to a crawl for a million, regressed or lost knowledge and had to redevelop it or broke into isolated groups that developed independently and reformed over tens of thousands of years. we see that in the shows, some ancient technology seems much farther in advancement than even Atlantis and the Asgards understanding and yet seems much older
Unless Tech stagnation occurs...... Star Wars said "Republic Tech" has changed very little over the course of time except for design. I would surmise that at a pinnacle of Tech, it would take many many more years later. A "Newer Tech" would come to fruition. Could be 100, 1,000, 10,000, 100,000, or 1,000,0000 years to improve already known Peak Tech. But time would just be another Tool to Learn to comprehend the next Tech Evolution 😊
I think it's possible to say that maybe the ancients have had a civilization reset or two as one possibility. Even a million years is ridiculous for any civilization that isn't in some completely other mentality and way of doing things. If they really went on for that long, their technology wouldn't be so rustic and rugged, it'd be more refined and simplified and optimized. They wouldn't need greebly design logic that is signature of not quite knowing enough to make the perfect design that fits together like a puzzle with no waste. Saying the ancients were around millions of years ago - so long as they stayed within a sensible range - like destiny to atlantis would be handfuls of thousands of years, not millions. That said, a trope in sci-fi is to use exaggerated numbers for emotional effect. The point was to really emotionally sell how *old* destiny is and how it's much older than the other ancient stuff we see, but they way overcompensated for effect, instead of sticking to realistic numbers. It they could have met in the middle and instead of trying to eyeball ridiculous dates, they could make it a measure of difficulty of interpreting ancient time measuring units, and then have say Rush throw an estimate that destiny is tens of thousands of years older than any ancient tech they've seen. Big impact, dramatic, but still within the realm of plausibility. Hundreds of thousands of years ago is a timescale that makes more sense for the ancients though, rather than millions. Millions is just too long - especially if they were supposed to be active in Pegasus in much less than that. ps: if you ask me, the milky way gates feel more mechanical and rustic than the destiny gate, which makes it either an artistic design choice by the ancients, or perhaps the destiny gate is a more stripped down model that is purpose built and perhaps not older.
What about diminishing returns on technology? The first million years follows our path where chip capacity doubles every two years, then you get to a point where it flattens out and even small advances or discoveries take huge amounts of time as you already know everything.
More to the point: is that what the FTL drive does in the first place? It combines near light speed travel plus time dilation to arrive at the destination at faster than light speeds. There is a mind boggling paradox here after the earth crew arrives but I still can't help but think there is something there.
Time dialtion is not a factor when you're travelling faster than light. It's only a factor when you're close to (but not exceeding) the speed of light, like,... 0.6 -0.9c
I agree with your reasoning, though I've been hoping /assuming that it be only a bit over the 5 million years cited in Atlantis. A thousand years is a large amount of development time provided you have writing & records, a hundred thousand years is an obscene amount if your society has survived that length of time. A transition from Destiny tech to Atlantis tech should easily be achieved within a hundred thousand years.
development needn´t to be a linear progression. It could have setbacks, stagnation, fast und slow phases. Maybe it hit a "wall" and it stagnated for a few million years till there was a breakthrough because they found a new material or met another species. Maybe there was even a long period of regression.
The one thing that's right is that we just really don't know. We have timeframes that are guessed at, in cannon, but we don't actually know how old things are. But millions of years (even 50) isn't unreasonable. We know Destiny can travel at or near the speed of light. This would cause a huge time dilation. As for advancements and how far the ancients would advance. They were literally able to evolve into a higher form of existence. I have no problem with this taking tens of millions of years.
In science as well as science fiction the talk about age in a grand scale (or a geological one) is almost always a "best guess", and usually those guesses are extremely exaggerated because who is to say they are wrong or right one the money? So I take the talk about age of things in the universe with a grain of salt, and know that things will change in the future as the understanding of time gets less muddy.
in stargate there is a trend that the more advanced the species the less imaginative they become, case in point, the Asgard. The ancients were shown to not be very willing to accept new ideas or even do anything in the name of long term self preservation.
Destiny was never occupied by the builders? Any evidence that it was even visited by the builders? Old technology, forgotten or the question had been answered and the visit wasn't necessary anymore?
I'd say they go in this order; - Destiny (because the Ancients would have developed starship first and the Destiny could be the pinnacle of their starship tech at the time for such a journey) - Stargate version 1 (the SGU gate. Looks the oldest and would have been their idea at the time for using this new tech to plant gates in distant galaxies to explore further than their 'current home' galaxy with ease. - the SG1 gate, or Milky Way gate. It looks a vast improvement on the SGU gate, but still looks rudimentary in comparison to the Atlantis/Pegasus gates. - Atlantis, because the Ancients left Earth and if the Pegasus gates were a thing by then, they'd surely have put them throughout the Milky Way. - the Pegasus gate.
Well the numbers dont make much since any way you put it,... "Several Billion light years from home" is ambiguous but if one assumes three= several; then one using Asgard level technology should be able to cover that distance in 30-35 years. ( Estimated by time it takes to travel between Earth and the Pegasus galaxy 3 to 3.5 million light years and by using Asgard hyperdrives, being roughly two weeks each way, one should be able to cover 1 billion light years in about 1 year ) So presumably Asgard Ferling Humans, Ancients etc, ( hell even the snake boys have had enough time if they wanted to) have all been out as far and further than Destiny. As per show continuity.
I would ABSOLUTELY appreciate a *definitive* time line for StarGate. A million year timeline is the ABSOLUTE MOST it should be imo. Beyond that it just stops making sense.
If these Stargates are super ancient, why are they still at ground level? Ancient Israel, Egyptian, Greek, Roman and so many other artifacts are commonly found buried 5 to 10 feet or more underground. A million years would be a lot of dust storms, floods, volcanic ash, etc before we even start talking about plate tectonics. I can recall only one episode where a gate had been buried by lava and then excavated by the locals allowing it to be used once again. This alone points to Stargates being a lot younger than 1+ MIllion years old. If we assume Destiny has traveled 10 Million light years at an average speed of 100 light years per year, then her age is about 100,000 years old. So, two different ways to calculate the age.
I think the assumption is, that the seed ships would have selected the most geologically and climatically stable areas to emplace stargates. Why are stargates, where they are? I assume the pedistals are either emplaced on bedrock outcroppings, or have foundation peirs that adjust overtime (at least in the case of the destiny gates). The stone foundations in the Milkway are anyones guess, and Pegasus gates seem to just be sunk into the ground since they have no need for moving parts. SG-1 alludes to many gates being lost or buried (reference cold dialing program. Bedrosian episode, "New Ground" I think?). Basically, late at night, the SGC would auto dial random addresses and if it couldn't get a lock, the address was placed in the cold dial program for later retry. Afterall, the gate could have been busy at the time. But it's suggested that alot of the gate network is dormant and burried since it's estimated at some point, I forget where, that there only thousands of active gates in the galaxy, but upwards of 1.9 trillion potential gate addresses. Seems pretty empty for a Galaxy wide Stargate Network. The gates we see in use, are those frequented by people or where people live near by and maintain it. If they're indeed ancient, the gates tend to be free of overgrowth and the plantlife cut back away from them, so there must be some means of maintaining them. The Goa'uld definitely were invested in at least maintaining the gate network. And hell, maybe the gates have some sort of subtle sheilding mechanism that prevents it's immediate surrounds from erroding or being burried over time by flood or wind. It's sci-fi! The could be any sort of sci-fi magical BS going on if we're being honest.
The flashback to the departure of Atlantis from Earth was "several million years ago." That could be as little as three million. It's not necessarily true that cultures always advance, we see a number of Dark Ages in actual accepted history as far back as the Bronze Age Collapse that makes Europe's Dark Age look like a drunken bender on a long weekend. Not to mention "we" seemed largely the same as we are now a hundred thousand years ago with no reason to expect there couldn't have at least been prior bronze age or stone building societies sprinkled throughout that time before our civilization made it all the way to social media :/ It's not hard to believe the Ancients had their own Dark Ages before they really became The Ancients as we think of them attaining thier heights. Even then the Lantean Ancients seemed like a people in decline if only because most of their best and brightest went right into ascending with very few of any sense (and even fewer capable of sly sneakiness) engaging in Lantean society or their war with Wraith. A perfect example being Janus who might've been ten times "smarter" than Rodney or Carter but is absolutely what Red from That Seventies Show would call a complete dumbass. Seriously, when Alternate Weir showed up and Merus (Merlin, etc) immediately confronted Janus about this time machine he was forbidden to build somehow existing Janus doesn't even try to argue that for all they know Merus changed his mind, instead he just cracks up like complete dumbass. Then later on when he's trying to help Weir get back to her time the Long Way Around Janus seems to only be doing that to "get one by" on Merus. Meanwhile it's my head canon that Merus was completely aware and 1) didn't mind as long as they didn't muck up causality with any more time machines and 2) was perfectly happy letting Janus think he was getting away with something if it kept him from doing something legitimately disruptive while Merus was trying to manage the evacuation of Pegasus. I think if there had been more people like Merus they wouldn't have lost but instead there were more people like Janus. Dumbasses. Besides all that it's also plausible that an earlier design for gates was dusted off long after falling into disuse. For instance if naquada is absent from most galaxies needing far less of it could be a really big plus.
Maintenance for a ship 10's of millions of years old .. how many parts and materials would just 'dry' out and degrade? And also at that age, do you need to start taking into account material Half-Life's?
I don't think the time between Ancient technology updates is fair to be on our same biological time clock as they lived far longer lives and so might have taken a slower approach to their development both bio and techno. Where it took us a hundred years to develop something it would take them 100,000 years. Like the Asgard said they acquire an uncalculatable amount of information and tech over the millennium. That even the Asgard and later the Atlantis Expedition couldn't even take 6% of the total amount.
I suppose the theoretical age determination of the Antartic / Beta Gate being at approximately 50 million years, is just that a theoretical determination. And that conclusion was based on comparing other Gate DHD in operation around the galaxy to the DHD found in Antartica. It was clearly a potential estimate, and a maximum range estimate at that based on Carter's dialogue. I'm guessing she was measuring the estimated decay of the power source? Doesn't really seem to account for 'active use' though, right? I would assume that'd be draining the reactor / battery or whatever it is. And Earth was the beating Heart of Ancientdom in the Milkway Galaxy. Which means almost constant use. Something which Carter obviously had no clue of at the time to even account for. SO, it is an estimation based on assumptions made examining other DHDs and the common / average use those gates see. I would categorize that figure as unreliable. I would look at the 50 million years estimate as the extreme range of it's potential age, and not very likely based upon my above logic. There are other factors that obviously could have been playing into it. I would advocate for a 15-25 million year timeframe. After all, the Ancients clearly had to have time to explore, colonize and seed life and civilization through out the Milkway. It took them 5-10 million years to do that in the Pegasus Galaxy, a much smaller galaxy before they ran into Wraith in the neighborhood of 10,000 years ago. And the Milkyway is obviously way bigger! Civilizations and evolution obviously take time to cultivate and grow. I would also lean closer to 5 million years for dating the Great Plague. And that age for the Antartica gate would obviously mark the begining of the 2nd Generation / Current Milkyway Gate Network as Earth, being the Ancient Capital would have received the first gate. Now, the 1st Generation / Destiny style gates could have been in use for anywhere from 10,000 years to 5,000,000 years before they were replaced. We know these gates aren't as advanced or as robust, so we can not assume they would enjoy the same long life. I would sugest 500,000 to 2,000,000 at most. Anyways, all that said, we simply don't know. We probably never will honestly, there's simply not enough information provided and what information is provided in cannon is simply guess work based on sci-fi science and technology. If the real world tells us anything. Science isn't infallible. Look at anthropology/archealology the last 15 years. The emmergence of anatomically modern human beings keeps getting older, and Older, and OLDER with each new discovery. What are we up to now, 350 to 300,000 years old as a species? When I was in school, it was thought to be 100,000 if I recall correctly and that was in the late 90s, early 2000s. Then it was 200,000, then 250,000. And another example, the peopling of the Americas was thought to have occured during the last iceage between 25-30,000 years ago when the ice-corridor from siberia into alaka opened up. Now there's sites being dated back to 100,000 years or more old in Mexico? Human beings are very presumptious and arrogant in beliving we know everything there is to know based on limited information. The above example is based on scant evidence and assumptions, that were made then stitched together to largely "make up" a picture of what our chronology as a species looked like. But we keep exploring and digging, adding new and exciting finds and adding more and more data points to fill in that picture. Truthfully, in an anthropological sense, we've probably only scratched the surface, and we'll probably never even get 25% of that picture fully accurate, because the evidence is only presevered in exclusive scenarios, and what exists is largely probably still burried, and what discoveries there have been, are like pinpricks into a massive haystack, where the hey is a layer of meters upon meters of sedimentation over large swathes of our planets surface. Anyways, I can see many parraellels between that topic and this topic. Please excuse my rambling! 😂
Destiny is, in fact, could be millions years from the future and could be no more than 50 years since commissioning. A warp spaceship travels back in time if it goes FTL, creating a new timeline, and forward in time if it approaches the speed of light without exceeding it.
Warp spacecraft (as described by physists) is warping the fabric of space itself to move two points closer than they would be otherwise, there is no concept that I know of it warping time time itself to move back in time... in fact if that were possible it would be incredibly dangerous since by warping time you can accidentally and haphazzardly alter the timeline.
Maybe they should divide those time periods by 1000. Anywhere between 15k to 65k years it's well beyond any recorded history. There would have to been a cleanup of ancient tech though
I don't draw issue with the, millions of years. I would desire information to know why there was a stall in tech development.....if that can be explained, then there is no issue. Keep in mind, the destiny was a devoted project of an entire generation......this means that nobody was working on anything else......and maybe that was how the ancients worked,....that, on any given project, all of them worked on that ONE SINGLE thing until it was resolved. Such a dedication alone, could be why tech development was not very fast.....it could also be that they were faster, merely that the hurdles were much higher, and thus, took longer to figure out. There are alot of possible explanations, and just about anything can be written. Maybe they were overly focussed on Ascension. Maybe the discovery of the signal sparked devotion to ascension. I like to think that there was a universe before this one, and the signal came from an inhabitant of the previous universe.....or, Janus went back in time after having ascended, and his added energy caused the expansion, and he was what the Ori were worshipping......there is after all, Maria who accused Janus of tampering with causality.....I think it would be halarious to find out that he went back in time to see the big bang, and accidentally became entangled with ALL of the matter and energy of the universe, and the Ori were unknowingly worshipping an ancient....I would laugh
I suppose it would be cool if we found out that the Destiny was only about ten thousand years older than the city ships, but the Ancients used the Stargate aboard the destiny in conjunction with a solar flare to send the ship back in time millions of years and launch it from then. That way realistically by the time that they are actually building the destiny the ship is already out into the cosmos millions of years.
Human technology develops pretty quickly. In 1884 the 1st car (La Marquise) was made with a steam engine and 3 wheels. 85 years later, we traveled to the moon. Now we're creating the quantum computing AI that will eventually become our replicators. Humans develop quickly so we'll definitely be exploring space in ships in less than 1000 years.
Science always hits plateau's, and it take time to make a breakthru, though there guess at times within the series is biased in what they believe is the only viable scope they can deal with, as the Size of even the Galaxy let alone the Universe is mind boggling as we only know a drop in the ocean of Science that is truly possible, and can only speculate, hypothesize, and theorize about. SGA begins with "Several million Years ago" a Jumper and a City ship, several is 3 to 7, generally. They came back to earth 10,000 years ago, maybe with the resources available they could only build the destiny and launched it say a 1000 years after they returned to Earth.
who is to say that the Destiny is not older than the universe meaning that depending on which theory of how the universe was created, that the ship didnt bring the Ancients and a few other races over from another universe. we dont know exactly what the capabilities of the chair is on the ship. Also the mission of the Destiny seems to be to find out what that signal is in the background noise. We have also seen the Stargates do some weird things. who knows if there isnt a sheveron that would allow us to dial another universe as well. Maybe even a universe prior to our own if you subscribe to the big bang/big crunch theory.
For the age of Destiny & Atlantis, that's a hard one unfortunately as timelines have been retconned numerous times. In SG-1 I believe the Asgard stated that the Ancients left our space hundreds of thousands of years ago. In SG-A the US pilot had Daniel Jackson say Atlantis left Earth 15-50 million years ago however reruns of the two parts, DVDs, Bluerays have a much shorter time period 5-10 million years ago if I remember correctly, and the scene with the two Ancients just captioned "Several Million Years Ago" so at minimum 3 Million years ago by that caption. The comics stated Destiny & Atlantis were competing projects, but on air Rush stated Destiny is the product of an entire generation pouring their all into its completion. If I had to take a guess I'd assume Atlantis is the upgraded completed project of Destiny with Destiny pre-dating Atlantis by anywhere from 500 years to 150,000 years. I would err on the side of caution going with higher numbers as not only did the Ancients need to create and refine Hyperspace travel, they also had to solve a vast number technical issues... However there is the issue that the stasis pods in the outpost and Atlantis do not appear to have had much refining compared to those that are on Destiny. -- Sorry it's been a while since I did a watch through, and am typing this out on a break.
Atlantis was the last of their city ships that they built, but it may be implied that it was the last period. They also said that Destiny is older, so that much is sure. If Atlantis left Earth several million years ago, that means it's older than that and Destiny older still. I'd say Atlantis is between 5-15 million years old and Destiny at least 20.
Destiny was alluded to have been launched slightly before the exodus of the ancients from the ori and there own home galaxy to study the background radiation signals for interpretation, the gateway was more or less a refit just moments before mass ascension when they no longer needed to study all that noise.
You have to remember as people advance sometimes they get comfortable and contract look at Italy, China and the US with decreasing birth rates. Then there is going to be the odd calamity that could happen civil war, plague, war, stagnation and devolution.
As i was saying in live chat, the ark of truth showed merlins hand book before they left the ori galaxy, it showed the stargate and merlin even said "he had the most interesting idea last night" As this video said stlantis left earth (i believe first episode of sga said around 12 million years ago edit: nope it said several millions of years ago but later on said 5 to 10 million years as sci trek said) and in sg1 they said the the oldest milkyway gate was roughly 50 million years old, and rush did say that destinys gate (far?) Predated the milkyway gate.. Also while doing research years ago (i believe it was on stargates official page) they gave a discription on how the seed ships and destiny was the project before atlantis.. We know that the ancients lived a very long time (each individual, possibly through the device jackson got kidnapped in finding down in central america) and the ark of truth showed merlin and morgan lafea before they left oris galaxy, and later in sg1 merlin said after the ancients left atlantis that he went to earth where he acended.. That in itself showed the ancients easily lived over 50 million years each.. so i personally think the destiny could be near 100 million years old.. Their level of tech could be that people (writers, artists, ect..) just couldnt imagine in great detail extremly how advanced the tech would of been.. but also We gotta remember why they left the ori galaxy.. it seemed the ori didnt want the people to advance so it would of been similiar to earths 800 years of no advancement (the dark age) but in their lives could of been millions of years long.. We know they were more advanced phisically and mindfully, there for they could easily of pictured 100 years as a hour.. (just a example) since they were capable of living so long before acending.
The Ori and the Lanteans had a falling out over the fact that the Ori thought they should act like Gods. The Lanteans thought otherwise. It's the genesis of their no interfering rule once ascended. Once the Ori had their galaxy to themselves is when they decided to keep the people in the dark ages and then outlawed any knowledge of their history outside of the Ori teachings.
Destiny doesn't have to be older than anything else to have more primitive gates. Compare a Raspberry Pi to a high end gaming computer. Both are computers but perform differently because they have different purposes. The SGU gates don't have to be as fancy as Milky way or Pegasis gates because they don't have the same design requirements. SGU gates seem to be more or less disposable, being mass manufactured, dropped on an interesting planet and left alone for a few years to millions of years without being used and then maybe only used a couple times when/if Destiny drops by. The other gates were designed for constant use and needed different design constraints and features. Now I'm curious as to what cultures would do finding these more limited gates in galaxies Destiny has already passed through.
Please count in Time dilation The Destiny was traveling 99% plus the speed of light . 50 million years as perceived in the Destiny would only be a fraction of that time.
As far as we know so far, it's the only one of its type. The Ancients launched an unknown number of seed ships, which are different from Destiny but of a complementary type (meaning they're intended to work with Destiny). There must be enormous numbers of seed ships, since their job was to survey many thousands of planets in a narrow path within each galaxy, identify the suitable Earthlike planets, and land fresh new stargates on each one, all while the onboard gate factory made more gates before they were needed. The seed ships had to either be launched long before Destiny was launched, or maybe the seed ships would have to fly in FTL at faster speed than Destiny, in order to give themselves a headstart before Destiny.
Things like war or even experimentations the ancients carried out from time to time could have stunted technological growth. On the scale of the ancients in Star Gate, wars could have lasted millions of years, then time to catch up.
Hundreds of thousands of years sounds more plausible. According to research done into Atlantis based on Plato's writings, Atlantis met its fate during the Younger Dryas period, about 11,800 years ago.
Remember, Atlantis "sunk" after the Wraith war and that was 10,000 years ago. Atlantis episode Before I Sleep, Dr. Weir went back 10,000 years to right before the ancients went back to Earth.
@@scorpiusbalthazar4327 Dr. Weir and Dr. Jackson were obviously ballparking the figure. Remember, at the time the show was made, the Younger Dryas event was kinda unknown. It's widespread acknowledgement is really only in the past 12-15 years I think.
@@scorpiusbalthazar4327 It simply doesn't align with the Atlantis myth, see Plato who explicitly established in a timeframe that's never changed in the past 2000 years. In his account, in 360 BC, Plato specifically stated Atlantis sank some 9,000 years before his time. Which is where we get the 11,300+ year figure. Kinda set in stone, you know? Also, 10,000 years is a nice round number. It's a clear ballpark figure. They're not being exact, just generalizing.
I'm interested in any answers you come up with. The correct answer should be over a million years old, but less than two million. Not that utterly fantasist much older figure. That's based on only one assumption - that the ship AI was being minimally truthful when it told Rush (episode "Aftermath", on the bridge, in the guise of Dr Franklin) that the ship had been in flight for "over a million years". Sounds pretty authoritative to me.
Even at a million years, the speed of the Destiny is slow... and they would not be nearing the edge of the universe... The distance to Andromeda (our nearest full galaxy which is going to collide with the Milky way relatively soon - so comparitively speaking it is very very close).... and that one is 2.5 million light-years. The edge of the visible universe is 46.5 billion light years, and the visible universe and that already makes up a smidgen of what a finite universe (if it is finite) would be... and the Universe is expanding at an ever accellerating pace... The distance across an average galaxy like the milky way is only around 100,000 light-years and it takes months or years to cross a galaxy with the Destiny (and supposedly a few years to cross to the next galaxy).... Simply put, the math of everything is horribly bad and nothing really makes sense, so why would the age of the ship be any different.
I do believe it was franklin speaking, but with the information that was uploaded to his brain, kinda like how they save chloe by transferring gins and amanda perrys minds to the destiny
@@tacenda7776 Rush expressed in his dialog his doubts about the image of Franklin being the real Franklin, and the ship obviously didn't resurrect the long-dead Gloria Rush in order to have her "talk some sense into" Rush. I think it's obvious that it was the computer speaking to Rush through those two personas.
@@CraigCruden 1. There is no "edge of the universe". 2. The "utterly fantasist other estimate for the ship age" that I mentioned above is 50 million years. If Rush's initial estimate that the ship is "several billion light-years from Earth" and "several" means less than 10, this much distance can be covered in a reasonable time frame of more than a million years. So an intergalactic distance of a few million LY can be covered in a few weeks or months, and the average galaxy might be crossed in a few months to a year or so. The crew arrived while nearing the edge of one galaxy, took an unspecified number of months to cross to the next galaxy (where there were no worlds to go foraging for food, and the crew had to live off of what they had with them), and then had to forage extra hard to restock their supplies in the second galaxy. Whatever the actual gaps between any two galaxies wind up being, if you accept 50 million years as the ship age, then the time to cross these distances is now 50x what it was under the 1 million year age. A few months to cross between galaxies becomes decades, just to cover that empty gap. Instead of crossing a galaxy in a few months or a year, each galaxy will take decades to cross.
Destiny is older because of time dilation. Also, the ship the ancients leave the ori galaxy in from the mountain. That would be older than Destiny yet destiny looks older.
I concur that the posited time spans are too large, and I ascribe it to this: humans (audiences and TV writers) have trouble with big numbers. We comprehend 50 and 60 years (at a scale of 10^1), then boost the scale to 10^6 and use the same ratio -- but forget all the numbers between. Instead, how about 50 million and 50.1 million? 100,000 years is still a really long time for endeavors by human-type civilizations. Something similar happens with round numbers. Atlantis was abandoned 10,000 years ago -- why not 11,000 or 8,400? (Even if it's an initial estimate by Earth, surely the science teams can eventually refine it?) And with spatial scales -- we've got space-opera which is "interplanetary" and "interstellar" and then, gee, the next show must be "intergalactic" -- because we don't have any familiar words for an intermediate scale. It's like "I've visited two attractions in Manhattan, I'm bored, let's visit Chicago." It might also be a misplaced analogy with the way land and oceans are distributed on Earth.
The one thing to realize about the Ancients is that they weren't like us. They didn't have the same drive to explore, expand, and to advanced. They went a really really long time between technological leaps. We see the same thing with the Asguards, and Gould. If anything we see the same in other Humans on other worlds as well. Something about the Humans on Earth is different from everyone else, to the point that we have advanced more in the last 10k years than any other race in a million years.
This has to be one of the dumbest comments I've ever seen. The ancients were the shining example of exploration and wanting of knowledge. They explored the galaxies, launched destiny to find out what the signal was, created untold species, and different cycles of humans. Researched and found ascension. Very, very strange comment. You are making a very bold claim that technology and it's advancement is completely linear with no periods of stagnation. Shit, we thought we'd have flying cars by now, but we don't, and are nowhere near them.
I think Rush was right, or on the right track. That being said, the whole Stargate Universe should be no more than seven to nine hundred thousand years old (in my opinion).
I believe 60 million isn’t long enough. If you’re putting realism to this topic, remember that our galaxy is fairly young. Some experts believe they got the age of the universe wrong and that it’s actually twice the predicted age (30 billion). Now for earth, who’s to say the Alteran’s planet and society developed the same as earths? Suppose their planet, instead of dinosaurs, started to develop bipedal ape like life forms early on? Now, at this point in time (and if we don’t kill each other first), does anyone believe our science, in a million years, will not advance to the point of distant space travel? Perhaps a “ZPM”? An Einstein/Rosen bridge? The human(oid) species is about a million(plus) years old and we’ve come this far, only slowed down by the dark ages. As long as nothing interferes/derails/regresses our learning, we should be on track to visit the stars and hopefully the Asgards will be waiting.
I can understand the confusion, the script says one thing yet visually we know its a lot longer, since the gate is older than the milky way gates and the original earth gate was 50mil years old. The prob I have, Destinys gate looks more advanced than the milky way gates, sumfin between the milky way and pegasus gates.
@@scorpiusbalthazar4327 , the steam i can understand but the gate visually looks more advanced than the milky way gates, the symbols illuminate. And the movie Ark of Truth shows a sketch of a stargate, the same stargate as the milky way, sum of the symbols look identical
@richardajoy79 it's not as sleek, it looks more bulky and I just mentioned the steam. Our gate clearly learned how to eliminate the steam issue and make the gate smaller.
I thought this ship was launched LONG BEFORE Atlantians came to earth. Based on stitching together SG1, SGU, & SGO. There's also different groups that came at different times, then there's earth Atlantians that went back to atlantis' galaxy.
Time dilation can massively alter the age of the ship depending on the perspective of the observer given that the ship is travelling at relativistic speeds
The ship travels at FTL speeds though. Time dilation only becomes that major a factor when it's spending most of its journey traveling close to (but not exceeding) light speed. And it wouldn't alter the age of the ship even then. How time dilation works is that in the rest of the universe time will flow faster than for an observer on the ship as it's traveling at those sub-luminal speeds. So while decades may pass in the ship, in the rest of the universe it will be like hundreds of thousands to millions of years. They had an episode of Stargate Atlantis that demostrated his exact situation with an Ancients ship that had it's FTL engines damaged and could only try to get back to Atlantis by sub-luminal speeds and the Pegasus which was travelling through hyperspace (i.e. FTL) caught up to them and found out that they had been cruising for millions of years thinking that only a couple hundred years had passed (their physical bodies were in a state of cryo-stasis as their minds were linked to a system that allowed them to operate the ship without aging rapidly.) and not realizing that the Atlanteans had already abandoned the city millions of years ago after they lost the war to the Wraith.
3:30 The Destiny and seed ships' gates being of a *simpler* design doesn't make them older. It just means that the Ancients chose a simpler design for that mission, without forcing any audience member to assume that the gates have to be older. 4:10 we know, you meant to contrast sci-fi and /fantasy/.
Where was the Destiny launched from? Where is the galaxy that has the older gates? The Ancients updated the gates over time. Example being Milkyway version and Pegasus version. How much of a head start were the seed ships given? As far as age goes. Pick a number that makes it fun for you and leave it at that. Too many unanswered questions over all anyway.
So I want to point out that the ancients ascended so they had no need in continuing to advance their tech and that at times we have hit dead spots in our tech before the next break. This would help with stretching time out. Yeah it wouldn't cover that difference in time.
What were they basing the age of Destiny on, the traveled distance? I honestly dont recall. If the case, i'd see some potential in them discovering some burned out ancient prototype hyperspace drive that initially pushed Destiny way way out to begin its journey. Then relied on the slow by comparison tried and true FTL to keep it going. And I'm just spitballing here but if we ever get a SGU conclusion, how about they find the broken thing after waking from statsis and fix it to get home? Since hyperspace tech is so much more common and developed now they can plot device fix that right up to get Destiny back home. Hell how about finding some old experimental Asguard drive long abandoned in the database given to earth..and oh ho ho its got matching specs that just might work on the Destiny? Seriously though I want a conclusion, I'll take whatever your selling.
Why can't the Destiny be the ship that arrived from the Ori galaxy & was retrofitted as a star gate ship after they arrived. This would account for the design of the ship, gate & technology. Whether it be 16 million years old or 60 million years old, needs to be accounted for in canon. Also need to remember that technology is NOT a linear system. Modern humans where technologically stagnant for LONG periods of time, before the next BIG technology changed. Wooden & stone axes to copper/bronze swords. Do I need to say more. Possible that long period in our own future where technologies will stagnant & the next evolution, say enlightenment, may take hundreds of thousands or even millions of years.
I think your logic is flawed. There is a point where technological development would slow down due the massive difficulty in advancing to the next step. Example the Destiny has an older iteration of a gate, maybe one of the oldest designs, Next you have the Milkyway gates which could be several million years worth of design improvements. Now you have the Atlantis Gates. Each gate design taking a million or so years to get there. The Ancients last wormhole travel was the wormhole drive on the city ship, and The Ori Super Gates. Also consider this tech was not the only tech being worked on.Replicator tech to fight the Wraith, Ascension, teleportation, shield tech, ZPM tech. They may have already had hyper drive tech when Destiny was built, but as stated in Universe they couldn't use it due to the nature of the signal they were tracing through the universe.
Wait hold on plot hole. When this happened to sg1 and they took apophysis’ ship to get back they traveled quite far nearly instantaneously so im thinking if you can access hyper space you can manipulate it in a way to make that event possible. So why the fuck is destiny still out there?!
Imagine if the ori had went to pegasus & met the wraith 😂 would have been the only good thing they'd have done without knowing it & basically cleansed the pegasus galaxy for the tau ri to return unopposed 😂
The Asgard have a more sensible timeline. We know their civilisation is around 100,000 years old from the SG1 finale. Based on that, Ancient civilisation couldn't have been more than 300,000 years at most. The Destiny is less advanced than the latest Asgard tech, so it's probably around 250,000 years old. It seems reasonable it would take a civilisation like the Ancients 50,000 years to develop FTL and "first gen" Star Gate technology.
Never made sense to me, either. It needs to be rational. Tell you the truth, none of the time lines made sense to me. Hopefully they will come up with something cohesive.
I think -fasting- vasting the time scale only makes it more interesting and open to more mystery and discovery allowing the tale to stay current. Too many science tropes of this last century have been well-funded farces, between error, corruption or plagiarism and new paradigms reveal truth. "Common Sense" is just social norm as mass-hallucinations. I think we've been around a lot longer than we are being allowed to know. Do this, look up California forty-niner hydro-blasting gold miners under Sierra mountains finding 'modern' human skeletons and camp artifacts ten million years too old and under a mountain. It was investigated by Ca state geologist who sent stratification and artifacts / reports to Smithsonian to be first mocked, then buried. SOP
If it was 50 millions years old, how long did it take the ancients get from e.g. cavemen to be able to construct it ? Just because it is how ever old it really is, doesn't mean it took that many years to come up with it. I think that makes sense, it does to me 🤔🤪
@@martinhandrlica1126 What I am trying to say is... How long was it before the ancestors in their pre-technical stage e.g. Cavemen, became to be able to makes ships like the destiny. I think the confusion is that some say the Destiny is around 50 million years old but that's not the same as saying it took 50 million years for the ancients to get to the point where they could make one. I am confusing myself now, or am I ?
We should start with real human evidence of evolution on earth is less then 10 million years (5-7 by most scholars) so we could put decara repopulating universe around the 10 mil mark… that means the Alterians were back from Pegasus then and it was before this that the 4 races formed there alliance (since asgaurd knew about Pegasus) and this already causes issues with SgA saying the wraith war was before they returned back then. So let’s say the wraith war (and as such city ships) where 10-12m years ago. The orginal stint in Milky Way doesn’t have to be long… like it could have been less the a million years from stargates being built destiny launched starvates upgraded and building of Atlantis.
Then we should consider that also makes the Knox and the Asgaurd that old as well… how long was the clowning issue? Was Thor 1 alive to know the altearens or was his great great grandparents the people in the alliance?
I would say, by going by the rise and fall of man, here in reality, there was at least 3 times in our very ancient past, 3 rising's of human to highly technological and something disaster happened, that wiped out a large percentage of the human population and destroyed lots the major cities, to a point where we survived, but lost all knowledge of our tech and as time went on, people seeing things our far in the past forbears did and thinking gods made them.. Just imagine, us today, if we suffered a major natural or self made disaster and 50% of the population was killed, all major cities gone power grides destroyed beyond repair. We would still survive, maybe another 20 to 30 percent dies, from starvation or what ever, those that survive all that, will be living like cavemen, in 100 years almost all the random bits of technology will will be gone, rusted, decomposed, withered away, only the things that are ancient now, will remain, we will have forgotten, it was us who made it.. We will have to start all over again.. This is how I see stargate, they were our very ancient ancestors, for some reason or another left.. I could believe the ancients on stargate could easily be our very for distant ancestors going back 20 to 30 million years ago, the same as if we were wiped almost completely out, say 500 years, there would be no trace of what we built.. Something to think about..
had anyone ever considered something simple yet overlooked . Just because a stargate is a older design doesn't always mean it a older stargate. Destiny has seed ships going ahead of it to plant stargates.. I have a theory they "used" a older design as it was just easier to get resources from places it was going. a simpler design that could be mass produced compared to the newer ones that took considerably more rare materials.
YES, EXACTLY!! I've long thought that it was probably a question of ruggedness. Maybe the "Cadillac" fancy gates of the Milky Way and Pegasus require a small amount of occasional maintenance, but the seed ships' simpler gates were intended to sit there for many hundreds of thousands of years before any Ancients would ever even visit that galaxy, much less settle in to do any maintenance work.
Came to basically say this. I'd say Destiny is between 40 and 45 million years old. They've used the older gates on her because of her mission. They are not gates meant to be a "functioning network". They were for resource collection etc. The older design doesn't mean they were older gates.
I always wished the Eden aliens restored Destiny like they did the shuttle for the crew. Would look brand new, everything would work on the ship, life support all over, fully working ftl engine and they'd be able to check out every compartment that was off limits due to damage and no life support.
yeah well they didn't
1. There would have to be some logical reason why the Planet Builders would do something like that. For Kane and the others on the shuttle, the reason was obvious - that there were these alien (human) bodies and alien technology littering up the fresh pristine landscape that was still in the middle of being built, and the Planet Builders were respectful enough to reunite the dead with their friends. Anything beyond that was not their business.
2. Plus, the crew would have to have full control over Destiny, which they didn't at that time, in order to get the ship to park itself somewhere near the Eden planet.
3. The crew had to know that the Planet Builders were coming back soon, and also know that they would be in a benevolent mood when they arrived. Remember how afraid Eli and some others were at the prospect of meeting the aliens if they should come back to Eden?
It's not unreasonable to think that over the millennia there might have been extinction level events that caused a partial reset, wars famines etc that slowed some progress, sped up others, separated civilisations etc, that's the joy of Stargate, there's so much unknown and off screen detail that is left to our imagination
The worst mistake in SGU regarding this is when Volker clearly says Destiny was travelling for "the better part of a million years". In my opinion that means the showrunners were definitely trying to retcon the age scale of all things Ancient down to a fraction of what they established previously. I think they went too far the first time giving everything an age of several million years, and then went too far the other direction trying to make it all less than one million years. Big mistakes on both ends. If Stargate comes back, they should retcon all of it to something reasonable in the middle.
everyone assumes the Ancients progressed at the same rate as current humans, they might have taken a much slower steady development instead of rapid leaps, especially if they on longer had wars to cause technological jumps like here on earth
We know that the gate technology on the destiny is the very first generation. I’ve always had it in my head cannon the the milk way gate network is actually the second gate network in the milky way that replace the first generation seen on the destiny. These new gates had better range and made sense to replace the gate in the Milky Way with the newer gates. They then designed a new gate network and where probably about to upgrade the Milky Way gate network before they have to leave the galaxy and instead took the new Pegasus gate with them. This explains to me why the Pegasus gates supersede the milky way gates as they where probably the original replacement. The reason I say this is because I believe the destiny is as old as the first gate network and was probably how they where able to create the original gate network in the Milky Way before the current network and this to me means that the destiny has the same age gap between it and the Milky Way gates as the Milky Way gates and Atlantis (which I consider the same age as the Pegasus gates). This has always been my head cannon
Don't forget that the Antarctic gate is older than the rest of the Milky Way gates and it's the one that takes precedent.
Actually, we don't know that Destiny's gates are the first generation. Just because something has a more primitive look and features doesn't mean it is more primitive, just that the Ancients chose the simpler design for the seed ships to build. Stargates, ring transporters, and communication stones are all technology found in the Ori galaxy as well as the Milky Way and Pegasus. This doesn't necessarily mean that all three technologies were developed in that galaxy before the Alterans left it several million years ago, but they PROBABLY all were. This means that the "first generation of stargates" was built in the Ori galaxy millions of years before Destiny was built.
The great age of Destiny's look could just be a design choice, plus the fact that it is over a million years old with zero maintenance done. In the real world, there's a "steampunk" style movement in which some people like to decorate their modern electronics with brass bits to make them look like something out of the Victorian age. I've seen pictures of them - computer keyboards modded to look like a very old typewriter, for example. That doesn't make the device older and more primitive, it just looks like an antique.
It would make sense if the Galactic Stargate Networks in the Milky Way and Pegasus were created by automated seedships spreading out from a central staging area. The Ori copied the gate technology developed by the Alterans, meaning their network (assuming they actually have one) is younger than the Milky Way's.
remember sg1 stargate is 50 million years old according to sam carter, its not overblown as the alterans(ancients civilization, is 200 million years old with control of at least 4 galaxies
Destiny is about 40 million years old. Theyve used the older gate design on her because they were easier to make without naquadah being the main mineral. And the gates weren't meant to be a true gate network.
The ancients arrived in the milky way about 50 million years ago with the stargate design already worked out - the ones we see on destiny. They may have used these gates for local travel at first then designed the milky way gates later. They then launched destiny sometime after using the original gate design.
It dosnt really matter whether you think the timeline is "to long'. Thats what it is. No one on that ship knew how old destiny was.
The anicnts built things to last. All of their technology is refinement to the point it can last for millions of years. Thats just what is shown.
The ice the oldest gate was found in was about fifty million yeasr old. The timeline adds up well. And people assume technology and advancement is completely linear. How so? Because other sci fi shows show yearly updates and "advancements"? Like i said the ancients got to the stage where advancement was in making things last.
Destiny stargates could have been in use in the milky way. Then they could have been upgraded or replaced. That would explain why milky way gates can spin to dial, but the dhds could have been added as a upgrade later. Another thing I considered. What if atlantis was a generational ship because such huge distances would have taken time but over the millions of yeats since it left earth the engines were upgraded
The Destiny gate design isn't necessarily 'older'. Being remote gates for limited exploring, they'd likely be stripped down designs to save on materials and have fewer faults. So dating from gate designs isn't really viable. Where to look is when they started the quest for ascension. Destiny was built prior to that point, but far enough back to become 'old news' when they decided to follow that path. I mean the mission to explore the history of the universe....that'd be a bit hard to walk away from if it were fresh on their minds...or do they get the memo about that when they go 'Q'?
The only way the ship could have lasted that long was with a self repair functionality and obscene redundancy. Maybe the reason the Destiny was in as bad a shape as it was when the humans arrived, was because the self repair functionality had finally been lost... leaving only the redundancy to act as a buffer. I mean we did see "repair robots". But I don't know. There would have to be an automated system for acquiring materials, refining and manufacturing parts. Ancient technology is really robust but even Atlantis had some wear and tear that required physical repair and replacement of components. I mean maybe if there was some unknown element we never seen that had been maintaining things at a truly insane level. Fifty million years... we're talking a literal ship of Theseus situation... literally nothing of the original would have remained.
This is the one aspect of the whole SG universe that didn't make a lot of sense to me. 1`0p's of thousands, hundreds opf thousands, but millions of year, never felt right, like you said, it was just wayy too long.
I already shared what I think and why, before this video was released. Over a million years but somewhat less than two million. The Destiny AI said to Rush "over a million years", and this tracks perfectly with the speed of advancement we saw in the show's two seasons. It took the ship several months to finish crossing the first galaxy, then some unknown number of months to cross between galaxies, and the 3 years to finish crossing the Novan Galaxy and reach the next one. This works well with the estimate of the ship traveling several billion light-years from Earth and the million years'time frame. This allows Destiny to have visited about a half a million galaxies in that time span. If you try to match up the several billion light-years distance with the figure of 50 million years, then everything must have taken 50x as long as what we saw on the show. Instead of months or a year ish to cross a galaxy, you now have to accept it taking decades or more to cross each and every galaxy, and decades more to cross intergalactic distances. Utter nonsense!
Some of the most canonical of canon we have is that the Ori galaxy has stargates, ring transporters, and communication stones that all seem to operate flawlessly with their counterparts in the Milky Way and Pegasus. This doesn't prove, but does very strongly suggest, that all three technologies were developed in the Ori galaxy before the split between the Ori and the Alterans (Ancients), when the latter fled their home several million years ago. The Ancients brought the knowledge of how to build all these things with them. The first time we're introduced to the communication stones is when Daniel and Vala use them to connect to the Ori galaxy.
The fact that Destiny and the seed ships had more primitive, less capable gates has lead some fans to assume that they are much older than the Milky Way and Pegasus gates, but that isn't necessarily true. It just means that the generation of Ancients who built Destiny chose the more basic gate design for some reason. Maybe more complicated gates (just like more complicated versions of real-world machines, hint-hint!) require a degree of regular maintenance every few thousand years or whatever; and the more basic gates are naturally a lot more rugged than their fancier counterparts, the Cadillac gates of the Milky Way and Pegasus, where the Ancients actually were living and could provide that regular maintenance - if that's the reason. The Ancients launched all the seed ships many thousands of years before they had any intention of boarding Destiny or of moving into any of the galaxies visited by Destiny. Their ultimate plan might have been to colonize each galaxy along Destiny's path and seed it with human life, one at a time in sequence, just like they did with MW & P. Once they settled in a galaxy would be when it was time to expand and upgrade that galaxy's gate network. It was just unnecessary before then.
Similarly, the Ancients were not just spacefarers when they built Destiny, but were intergalactic in their travels, and *had* been for several million years before Destiny. So I feel pretty confident in assuming that the Ancients had true hyperdrives long before they even fled the Ori galaxy, millions of years before Destiny. So why build Destiny with the slower FTL drives? Like with the gates, it could easily also be a question of ruggedness. Destiny and the seed ships were unmanned, so didn't need to be speed demons. Maybe hyperdrives need some form of maintenance that the ships' automation couldn't provide, but FTL drives are (comparatively speaking) utterly bulletproof? Or to quote the illustrious Montgomery Scott: "The more they overthink the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the drain."
how old destiny is and she's still up and running proves ancient tech design superiority over our tech design which build it and it's dead in less then a century most computers running 24/7 die after 10 to 20 years realistically few last longer then that one
I have to disagree with your age of the Destiny. 50 million years makes perfect sense to me. The Ancients left the Ori galaxy between 50 and 60 million years ago. I think it's safe to assume it was during that journey they discovered the signal that Destiny was created to seek out. I think they came up with the idea of the Destiny as they approached the Milky Way and their desire to start the project and get it moving was a factor in them choosing this galaxy to begin with. Technology-wise, the Destiny has all the hallmarks of an advanced, space-faring, very mortal species. The upgraded (I have to assume it was upgraded many times over the eons) Atlantis that we know is of a people that were starting to ascend. Think about how long a species must take to evolve to the point of being able to ascend to beings of pure energy. I think that 60 million years is actually pretty quick to go from reaching sentience to ascending, which means that 50 million might be on the young side for the potential age of Destiny.
I think Destiny could be much older than 50 million years. The initial assumption that the Ancients were the first species could be faulty. They could be the 2nd, 3rd, 10th set to evolve into a galaxy wide species. As each set of species evolve into ascended beings and left the galaxy empty again, the next generation set could take another 10's of millions of years to become a galactic species. That would explain the different gate designs and the differing jumps in technology. Then it would make sense that the signal they are trying to track down is from yet an even more ancient species that existed 7 to 10 billion years before (that then disappeared when they ascended). That would almost make the current universe basically a nursery for ascended beings to come into existence. We also know that there is a multiverse from the dimensional mirror episodes where there are variations in the universe. The next higher level could be where these ascended beings then progress to (almost like the different levels of ascension in Buddhism and Hinduism). That means Destiny could be potentially a billion years old.
All they have to do is mention in a new Stargate movie/series how off they were on the decay rate of naquadah and how it thru all their dating off. Maybe have Samantha Carter teaching some students about related material and have a chart the board showing the corrected dates.
a 50 million+ year old stargate network is possible. we don't know how long the Ancients have been around but they might not have constant technological advancement. they could have studied a entirely alternate branches of science for hundreds of thousands of years, stagnated or slowed to a crawl for a million, regressed or lost knowledge and had to redevelop it or broke into isolated groups that developed independently and reformed over tens of thousands of years. we see that in the shows, some ancient technology seems much farther in advancement than even Atlantis and the Asgards understanding and yet seems much older
Unless Tech stagnation occurs...... Star Wars said "Republic Tech" has changed very little over the course of time except for design. I would surmise that at a pinnacle of Tech, it would take many many more years later. A "Newer Tech" would come to fruition. Could be 100, 1,000, 10,000, 100,000, or 1,000,0000 years to improve already known Peak Tech. But time would just be another Tool to Learn to comprehend the next Tech Evolution 😊
I think it's possible to say that maybe the ancients have had a civilization reset or two as one possibility. Even a million years is ridiculous for any civilization that isn't in some completely other mentality and way of doing things. If they really went on for that long, their technology wouldn't be so rustic and rugged, it'd be more refined and simplified and optimized. They wouldn't need greebly design logic that is signature of not quite knowing enough to make the perfect design that fits together like a puzzle with no waste. Saying the ancients were around millions of years ago - so long as they stayed within a sensible range - like destiny to atlantis would be handfuls of thousands of years, not millions. That said, a trope in sci-fi is to use exaggerated numbers for emotional effect.
The point was to really emotionally sell how *old* destiny is and how it's much older than the other ancient stuff we see, but they way overcompensated for effect, instead of sticking to realistic numbers. It they could have met in the middle and instead of trying to eyeball ridiculous dates, they could make it a measure of difficulty of interpreting ancient time measuring units, and then have say Rush throw an estimate that destiny is tens of thousands of years older than any ancient tech they've seen. Big impact, dramatic, but still within the realm of plausibility.
Hundreds of thousands of years ago is a timescale that makes more sense for the ancients though, rather than millions. Millions is just too long - especially if they were supposed to be active in Pegasus in much less than that. ps: if you ask me, the milky way gates feel more mechanical and rustic than the destiny gate, which makes it either an artistic design choice by the ancients, or perhaps the destiny gate is a more stripped down model that is purpose built and perhaps not older.
What about diminishing returns on technology? The first million years follows our path where chip capacity doubles every two years, then you get to a point where it flattens out and even small advances or discoveries take huge amounts of time as you already know everything.
I wonder if time dilation plays a part. Its experience age may well be less than when it was launched from.
More to the point: is that what the FTL drive does in the first place? It combines near light speed travel plus time dilation to arrive at the destination at faster than light speeds. There is a mind boggling paradox here after the earth crew arrives but I still can't help but think there is something there.
Time dialtion is not a factor when you're travelling faster than light.
It's only a factor when you're close to (but not exceeding) the speed of light, like,... 0.6 -0.9c
I agree with your reasoning, though I've been hoping /assuming that it be only a bit over the 5 million years cited in Atlantis. A thousand years is a large amount of development time provided you have writing & records, a hundred thousand years is an obscene amount if your society has survived that length of time. A transition from Destiny tech to Atlantis tech should easily be achieved within a hundred thousand years.
Elevator music on an alien world. Universe is the pinnacle of sci-fi.
development needn´t to be a linear progression. It could have setbacks, stagnation, fast und slow phases. Maybe it hit a "wall" and it stagnated for a few million years till there was a breakthrough because they found a new material or met another species. Maybe there was even a long period of regression.
The one thing that's right is that we just really don't know. We have timeframes that are guessed at, in cannon, but we don't actually know how old things are. But millions of years (even 50) isn't unreasonable. We know Destiny can travel at or near the speed of light. This would cause a huge time dilation. As for advancements and how far the ancients would advance. They were literally able to evolve into a higher form of existence. I have no problem with this taking tens of millions of years.
In science as well as science fiction the talk about age in a grand scale (or a geological one) is almost always a "best guess", and usually those guesses are extremely exaggerated because who is to say they are wrong or right one the money? So I take the talk about age of things in the universe with a grain of salt, and know that things will change in the future as the understanding of time gets less muddy.
Why hasn't Destiny's network of stargates been discovered in the Milky Way galaxy? As Earth was point of origin.
in stargate there is a trend that the more advanced the species the less imaginative they become, case in point, the Asgard.
The ancients were shown to not be very willing to accept new ideas or even do anything in the name of long term self preservation.
Want this program to return 😢
Destiny was never occupied by the builders? Any evidence that it was even visited by the builders? Old technology, forgotten or the question had been answered and the visit wasn't necessary anymore?
I'd say they go in this order;
- Destiny (because the Ancients would have developed starship first and the Destiny could be the pinnacle of their starship tech at the time for such a journey)
- Stargate version 1 (the SGU gate. Looks the oldest and would have been their idea at the time for using this new tech to plant gates in distant galaxies to explore further than their 'current home' galaxy with ease.
- the SG1 gate, or Milky Way gate. It looks a vast improvement on the SGU gate, but still looks rudimentary in comparison to the Atlantis/Pegasus gates.
- Atlantis, because the Ancients left Earth and if the Pegasus gates were a thing by then, they'd surely have put them throughout the Milky Way.
- the Pegasus gate.
Well the numbers dont make much since any way you put it,... "Several Billion light years from home" is ambiguous but if one assumes three= several; then one using Asgard level technology should be able to cover that distance in 30-35 years. ( Estimated by time it takes to travel between Earth and the Pegasus galaxy 3 to 3.5 million light years and by using Asgard hyperdrives, being roughly two weeks each way, one should be able to cover 1 billion light years in about 1 year ) So presumably Asgard Ferling Humans, Ancients etc, ( hell even the snake boys have had enough time if they wanted to) have all been out as far and further than Destiny. As per show continuity.
I would ABSOLUTELY appreciate a *definitive* time line for StarGate. A million year timeline is the ABSOLUTE MOST it should be imo. Beyond that it just stops making sense.
Time dilation due to ftl without hyperspacecan account for destinys' age and distance.
What if Destiny is a few hundred K years old but the star gate inside is 50 or so million years old?
If these Stargates are super ancient, why are they still at ground level?
Ancient Israel, Egyptian, Greek, Roman and so many other artifacts are commonly found buried 5 to 10 feet or more underground. A million years would be a lot of dust storms, floods, volcanic ash, etc before we even start talking about plate tectonics. I can recall only one episode where a gate had been buried by lava and then excavated by the locals allowing it to be used once again.
This alone points to Stargates being a lot younger than 1+ MIllion years old.
If we assume Destiny has traveled 10 Million light years at an average speed of 100 light years per year, then her age is about 100,000 years old.
So, two different ways to calculate the age.
I think the assumption is, that the seed ships would have selected the most geologically and climatically stable areas to emplace stargates. Why are stargates, where they are? I assume the pedistals are either emplaced on bedrock outcroppings, or have foundation peirs that adjust overtime (at least in the case of the destiny gates). The stone foundations in the Milkway are anyones guess, and Pegasus gates seem to just be sunk into the ground since they have no need for moving parts.
SG-1 alludes to many gates being lost or buried (reference cold dialing program. Bedrosian episode, "New Ground" I think?). Basically, late at night, the SGC would auto dial random addresses and if it couldn't get a lock, the address was placed in the cold dial program for later retry. Afterall, the gate could have been busy at the time. But it's suggested that alot of the gate network is dormant and burried since it's estimated at some point, I forget where, that there only thousands of active gates in the galaxy, but upwards of 1.9 trillion potential gate addresses. Seems pretty empty for a Galaxy wide Stargate Network.
The gates we see in use, are those frequented by people or where people live near by and maintain it. If they're indeed ancient, the gates tend to be free of overgrowth and the plantlife cut back away from them, so there must be some means of maintaining them. The Goa'uld definitely were invested in at least maintaining the gate network.
And hell, maybe the gates have some sort of subtle sheilding mechanism that prevents it's immediate surrounds from erroding or being burried over time by flood or wind. It's sci-fi! The could be any sort of sci-fi magical BS going on if we're being honest.
The flashback to the departure of Atlantis from Earth was "several million years ago." That could be as little as three million. It's not necessarily true that cultures always advance, we see a number of Dark Ages in actual accepted history as far back as the Bronze Age Collapse that makes Europe's Dark Age look like a drunken bender on a long weekend. Not to mention "we" seemed largely the same as we are now a hundred thousand years ago with no reason to expect there couldn't have at least been prior bronze age or stone building societies sprinkled throughout that time before our civilization made it all the way to social media :/
It's not hard to believe the Ancients had their own Dark Ages before they really became The Ancients as we think of them attaining thier heights. Even then the Lantean Ancients seemed like a people in decline if only because most of their best and brightest went right into ascending with very few of any sense (and even fewer capable of sly sneakiness) engaging in Lantean society or their war with Wraith. A perfect example being Janus who might've been ten times "smarter" than Rodney or Carter but is absolutely what Red from That Seventies Show would call a complete dumbass.
Seriously, when Alternate Weir showed up and Merus (Merlin, etc) immediately confronted Janus about this time machine he was forbidden to build somehow existing Janus doesn't even try to argue that for all they know Merus changed his mind, instead he just cracks up like complete dumbass. Then later on when he's trying to help Weir get back to her time the Long Way Around Janus seems to only be doing that to "get one by" on Merus. Meanwhile it's my head canon that Merus was completely aware and 1) didn't mind as long as they didn't muck up causality with any more time machines and 2) was perfectly happy letting Janus think he was getting away with something if it kept him from doing something legitimately disruptive while Merus was trying to manage the evacuation of Pegasus. I think if there had been more people like Merus they wouldn't have lost but instead there were more people like Janus. Dumbasses.
Besides all that it's also plausible that an earlier design for gates was dusted off long after falling into disuse. For instance if naquada is absent from most galaxies needing far less of it could be a really big plus.
Maintenance for a ship 10's of millions of years old .. how many parts and materials would just 'dry' out and degrade?
And also at that age, do you need to start taking into account material Half-Life's?
I don't think the time between Ancient technology updates is fair to be on our same biological time clock as they lived far longer lives and so might have taken a slower approach to their development both bio and techno. Where it took us a hundred years to develop something it would take them 100,000 years. Like the Asgard said they acquire an uncalculatable amount of information and tech over the millennium. That even the Asgard and later the Atlantis Expedition couldn't even take 6% of the total amount.
I suppose the theoretical age determination of the Antartic / Beta Gate being at approximately 50 million years, is just that a theoretical determination. And that conclusion was based on comparing other Gate DHD in operation around the galaxy to the DHD found in Antartica. It was clearly a potential estimate, and a maximum range estimate at that based on Carter's dialogue. I'm guessing she was measuring the estimated decay of the power source? Doesn't really seem to account for 'active use' though, right? I would assume that'd be draining the reactor / battery or whatever it is. And Earth was the beating Heart of Ancientdom in the Milkway Galaxy. Which means almost constant use. Something which Carter obviously had no clue of at the time to even account for. SO, it is an estimation based on assumptions made examining other DHDs and the common / average use those gates see. I would categorize that figure as unreliable.
I would look at the 50 million years estimate as the extreme range of it's potential age, and not very likely based upon my above logic. There are other factors that obviously could have been playing into it. I would advocate for a 15-25 million year timeframe. After all, the Ancients clearly had to have time to explore, colonize and seed life and civilization through out the Milkway. It took them 5-10 million years to do that in the Pegasus Galaxy, a much smaller galaxy before they ran into Wraith in the neighborhood of 10,000 years ago. And the Milkyway is obviously way bigger! Civilizations and evolution obviously take time to cultivate and grow. I would also lean closer to 5 million years for dating the Great Plague.
And that age for the Antartica gate would obviously mark the begining of the 2nd Generation / Current Milkyway Gate Network as Earth, being the Ancient Capital would have received the first gate. Now, the 1st Generation / Destiny style gates could have been in use for anywhere from 10,000 years to 5,000,000 years before they were replaced. We know these gates aren't as advanced or as robust, so we can not assume they would enjoy the same long life. I would sugest 500,000 to 2,000,000 at most.
Anyways, all that said, we simply don't know. We probably never will honestly, there's simply not enough information provided and what information is provided in cannon is simply guess work based on sci-fi science and technology. If the real world tells us anything. Science isn't infallible. Look at anthropology/archealology the last 15 years. The emmergence of anatomically modern human beings keeps getting older, and Older, and OLDER with each new discovery. What are we up to now, 350 to 300,000 years old as a species? When I was in school, it was thought to be 100,000 if I recall correctly and that was in the late 90s, early 2000s. Then it was 200,000, then 250,000. And another example, the peopling of the Americas was thought to have occured during the last iceage between 25-30,000 years ago when the ice-corridor from siberia into alaka opened up. Now there's sites being dated back to 100,000 years or more old in Mexico?
Human beings are very presumptious and arrogant in beliving we know everything there is to know based on limited information. The above example is based on scant evidence and assumptions, that were made then stitched together to largely "make up" a picture of what our chronology as a species looked like. But we keep exploring and digging, adding new and exciting finds and adding more and more data points to fill in that picture. Truthfully, in an anthropological sense, we've probably only scratched the surface, and we'll probably never even get 25% of that picture fully accurate, because the evidence is only presevered in exclusive scenarios, and what exists is largely probably still burried, and what discoveries there have been, are like pinpricks into a massive haystack, where the hey is a layer of meters upon meters of sedimentation over large swathes of our planets surface. Anyways, I can see many parraellels between that topic and this topic.
Please excuse my rambling! 😂
Destiny is, in fact, could be millions years from the future and could be no more than 50 years since commissioning. A warp spaceship travels back in time if it goes FTL, creating a new timeline, and forward in time if it approaches the speed of light without exceeding it.
Warp spacecraft (as described by physists) is warping the fabric of space itself to move two points closer than they would be otherwise, there is no concept that I know of it warping time time itself to move back in time... in fact if that were possible it would be incredibly dangerous since by warping time you can accidentally and haphazzardly alter the timeline.
@@CraigCruden It's a scientific fact! But stargates are quantum entangled, so the only way for the Destiny crew to return is through them!
Maybe they should divide those time periods by 1000. Anywhere between 15k to 65k years it's well beyond any recorded history. There would have to been a cleanup of ancient tech though
The show was so so, but the ship was something else.
Maybe its just the designer. Look at the planet, houses or cars of the same year are built different for style, practicality, and resources.
I don't draw issue with the, millions of years. I would desire information to know why there was a stall in tech development.....if that can be explained, then there is no issue. Keep in mind, the destiny was a devoted project of an entire generation......this means that nobody was working on anything else......and maybe that was how the ancients worked,....that, on any given project, all of them worked on that ONE SINGLE thing until it was resolved. Such a dedication alone, could be why tech development was not very fast.....it could also be that they were faster, merely that the hurdles were much higher, and thus, took longer to figure out.
There are alot of possible explanations, and just about anything can be written.
Maybe they were overly focussed on Ascension. Maybe the discovery of the signal sparked devotion to ascension. I like to think that there was a universe before this one, and the signal came from an inhabitant of the previous universe.....or, Janus went back in time after having ascended, and his added energy caused the expansion, and he was what the Ori were worshipping......there is after all, Maria who accused Janus of tampering with causality.....I think it would be halarious to find out that he went back in time to see the big bang, and accidentally became entangled with ALL of the matter and energy of the universe, and the Ori were unknowingly worshipping an ancient....I would laugh
I suppose it would be cool if we found out that the Destiny was only about ten thousand years older than the city ships, but the Ancients used the Stargate aboard the destiny in conjunction with a solar flare to send the ship back in time millions of years and launch it from then. That way realistically by the time that they are actually building the destiny the ship is already out into the cosmos millions of years.
Human technology develops pretty quickly. In 1884 the 1st car (La Marquise) was made with a steam engine and 3 wheels. 85 years later, we traveled to the moon. Now we're creating the quantum computing AI that will eventually become our replicators. Humans develop quickly so we'll definitely be exploring space in ships in less than 1000 years.
Science always hits plateau's, and it take time to make a breakthru, though there guess at times within the series is biased in what they believe is the only viable scope they can deal with, as the Size of even the Galaxy let alone the Universe is mind boggling as we only know a drop in the ocean of Science that is truly possible, and can only speculate, hypothesize, and theorize about.
SGA begins with "Several million Years ago" a Jumper and a City ship, several is 3 to 7, generally. They came back to earth 10,000 years ago, maybe with the resources available they could only build the destiny and launched it say a 1000 years after they returned to Earth.
who is to say that the Destiny is not older than the universe meaning that depending on which theory of how the universe was created, that the ship didnt bring the Ancients and a few other races over from another universe. we dont know exactly what the capabilities of the chair is on the ship. Also the mission of the Destiny seems to be to find out what that signal is in the background noise. We have also seen the Stargates do some weird things. who knows if there isnt a sheveron that would allow us to dial another universe as well. Maybe even a universe prior to our own if you subscribe to the big bang/big crunch theory.
Could have sworn I read it in one of the books both projects (city ships and destiny) were being developed at the same time no?
For the age of Destiny & Atlantis, that's a hard one unfortunately as timelines have been retconned numerous times.
In SG-1 I believe the Asgard stated that the Ancients left our space hundreds of thousands of years ago.
In SG-A the US pilot had Daniel Jackson say Atlantis left Earth 15-50 million years ago however reruns of the two parts, DVDs, Bluerays have a much shorter time period 5-10 million years ago if I remember correctly, and the scene with the two Ancients just captioned "Several Million Years Ago" so at minimum 3 Million years ago by that caption.
The comics stated Destiny & Atlantis were competing projects, but on air Rush stated Destiny is the product of an entire generation pouring their all into its completion.
If I had to take a guess I'd assume Atlantis is the upgraded completed project of Destiny with Destiny pre-dating Atlantis by anywhere from 500 years to 150,000 years. I would err on the side of caution going with higher numbers as not only did the Ancients need to create and refine Hyperspace travel, they also had to solve a vast number technical issues...
However there is the issue that the stasis pods in the outpost and Atlantis do not appear to have had much refining compared to those that are on Destiny.
-- Sorry it's been a while since I did a watch through, and am typing this out on a break.
Atlantis was the last of their city ships that they built, but it may be implied that it was the last period. They also said that Destiny is older, so that much is sure. If Atlantis left Earth several million years ago, that means it's older than that and Destiny older still. I'd say Atlantis is between 5-15 million years old and Destiny at least 20.
Destiny was alluded to have been launched slightly before the exodus of the ancients from the ori and there own home galaxy to study the background radiation signals for interpretation, the gateway was more or less a refit just moments before mass ascension when they no longer needed to study all that noise.
Did the show runners forgot about FDL and time dilation because I’m confused
You have to remember as people advance sometimes they get comfortable and contract look at Italy, China and the US with decreasing birth rates. Then there is going to be the odd calamity that could happen civil war, plague, war, stagnation and devolution.
As i was saying in live chat, the ark of truth showed merlins hand book before they left the ori galaxy, it showed the stargate and merlin even said "he had the most interesting idea last night"
As this video said stlantis left earth (i believe first episode of sga said around 12 million years ago edit: nope it said several millions of years ago but later on said 5 to 10 million years as sci trek said) and in sg1 they said the the oldest milkyway gate was roughly 50 million years old, and rush did say that destinys gate (far?) Predated the milkyway gate..
Also while doing research years ago (i believe it was on stargates official page) they gave a discription on how the seed ships and destiny was the project before atlantis..
We know that the ancients lived a very long time (each individual, possibly through the device jackson got kidnapped in finding down in central america) and the ark of truth showed merlin and morgan lafea before they left oris galaxy, and later in sg1 merlin said after the ancients left atlantis that he went to earth where he acended..
That in itself showed the ancients easily lived over 50 million years each.. so i personally think the destiny could be near 100 million years old..
Their level of tech could be that people (writers, artists, ect..) just couldnt imagine in great detail extremly how advanced the tech would of been.. but also
We gotta remember why they left the ori galaxy.. it seemed the ori didnt want the people to advance so it would of been similiar to earths 800 years of no advancement (the dark age) but in their lives could of been millions of years long..
We know they were more advanced phisically and mindfully, there for they could easily of pictured 100 years as a hour.. (just a example) since they were capable of living so long before acending.
The Ori and the Lanteans had a falling out over the fact that the Ori thought they should act like Gods. The Lanteans thought otherwise. It's the genesis of their no interfering rule once ascended. Once the Ori had their galaxy to themselves is when they decided to keep the people in the dark ages and then outlawed any knowledge of their history outside of the Ori teachings.
@@scorpiusbalthazar4327 what you say does make sense
190 million years prior to the Ori (Orion Wars) for first MWSG tobe useful as resource gathering as another poster commented.
Destiny doesn't have to be older than anything else to have more primitive gates. Compare a Raspberry Pi to a high end gaming computer. Both are computers but perform differently because they have different purposes. The SGU gates don't have to be as fancy as Milky way or Pegasis gates because they don't have the same design requirements. SGU gates seem to be more or less disposable, being mass manufactured, dropped on an interesting planet and left alone for a few years to millions of years without being used and then maybe only used a couple times when/if Destiny drops by.
The other gates were designed for constant use and needed different design constraints and features.
Now I'm curious as to what cultures would do finding these more limited gates in galaxies Destiny has already passed through.
Please count in Time dilation The Destiny was traveling 99% plus the speed of light . 50 million years as perceived in the Destiny would only be a fraction of that time.
Maybe once you get to a certain technological level progress no longer is linear but rather in spits and spurts occuring less often.
Is the Destiny the only one of those ships ever launched?
As far as we know so far, it's the only one of its type. The Ancients launched an unknown number of seed ships, which are different from Destiny but of a complementary type (meaning they're intended to work with Destiny).
There must be enormous numbers of seed ships, since their job was to survey many thousands of planets in a narrow path within each galaxy, identify the suitable Earthlike planets, and land fresh new stargates on each one, all while the onboard gate factory made more gates before they were needed. The seed ships had to either be launched long before Destiny was launched, or maybe the seed ships would have to fly in FTL at faster speed than Destiny, in order to give themselves a headstart before Destiny.
Things like war or even experimentations the ancients carried out from time to time could have stunted technological growth.
On the scale of the ancients in Star Gate, wars could have lasted millions of years, then time to catch up.
Hundreds of thousands of years sounds more plausible. According to research done into Atlantis based on Plato's writings, Atlantis met its fate during the Younger Dryas period, about 11,800 years ago.
Yes, Plato (and only him) obviously knew everything about Atlantis... which predated him by supposedly 9000+ years.
Remember, Atlantis "sunk" after the Wraith war and that was 10,000 years ago. Atlantis episode Before I Sleep, Dr. Weir went back 10,000 years to right before the ancients went back to Earth.
@@scorpiusbalthazar4327 Dr. Weir and Dr. Jackson were obviously ballparking the figure. Remember, at the time the show was made, the Younger Dryas event was kinda unknown. It's widespread acknowledgement is really only in the past 12-15 years I think.
@ealan3694 except we're talking about a TV show where they very explicitly said that she went back in time 10,000 years.
@@scorpiusbalthazar4327 It simply doesn't align with the Atlantis myth, see Plato who explicitly established in a timeframe that's never changed in the past 2000 years. In his account, in 360 BC, Plato specifically stated Atlantis sank some 9,000 years before his time. Which is where we get the 11,300+ year figure. Kinda set in stone, you know?
Also, 10,000 years is a nice round number. It's a clear ballpark figure. They're not being exact, just generalizing.
I'm interested in any answers you come up with. The correct answer should be over a million years old, but less than two million. Not that utterly fantasist much older figure. That's based on only one assumption - that the ship AI was being minimally truthful when it told Rush (episode "Aftermath", on the bridge, in the guise of Dr Franklin) that the ship had been in flight for "over a million years". Sounds pretty authoritative to me.
Even at a million years, the speed of the Destiny is slow... and they would not be nearing the edge of the universe... The distance to Andromeda (our nearest full galaxy which is going to collide with the Milky way relatively soon - so comparitively speaking it is very very close).... and that one is 2.5 million light-years. The edge of the visible universe is 46.5 billion light years, and the visible universe and that already makes up a smidgen of what a finite universe (if it is finite) would be... and the Universe is expanding at an ever accellerating pace... The distance across an average galaxy like the milky way is only around 100,000 light-years and it takes months or years to cross a galaxy with the Destiny (and supposedly a few years to cross to the next galaxy).... Simply put, the math of everything is horribly bad and nothing really makes sense, so why would the age of the ship be any different.
I do believe it was franklin speaking, but with the information that was uploaded to his brain, kinda like how they save chloe by transferring gins and amanda perrys minds to the destiny
@@tacenda7776 Rush expressed in his dialog his doubts about the image of Franklin being the real Franklin, and the ship obviously didn't resurrect the long-dead Gloria Rush in order to have her "talk some sense into" Rush. I think it's obvious that it was the computer speaking to Rush through those two personas.
@@CraigCruden 1. There is no "edge of the universe".
2. The "utterly fantasist other estimate for the ship age" that I mentioned above is 50 million years. If Rush's initial estimate that the ship is "several billion light-years from Earth" and "several" means less than 10, this much distance can be covered in a reasonable time frame of more than a million years. So an intergalactic distance of a few million LY can be covered in a few weeks or months, and the average galaxy might be crossed in a few months to a year or so. The crew arrived while nearing the edge of one galaxy, took an unspecified number of months to cross to the next galaxy (where there were no worlds to go foraging for food, and the crew had to live off of what they had with them), and then had to forage extra hard to restock their supplies in the second galaxy.
Whatever the actual gaps between any two galaxies wind up being, if you accept 50 million years as the ship age, then the time to cross these distances is now 50x what it was under the 1 million year age. A few months to cross between galaxies becomes decades, just to cover that empty gap. Instead of crossing a galaxy in a few months or a year, each galaxy will take decades to cross.
Destiny is older because of time dilation. Also, the ship the ancients leave the ori galaxy in from the mountain. That would be older than Destiny yet destiny looks older.
thank u sir
And BTW, what exactly is "the pigging Destiny"? I don't know that one. 🤔
I concur that the posited time spans are too large, and I ascribe it to this: humans (audiences and TV writers) have trouble with big numbers. We comprehend 50 and 60 years (at a scale of 10^1), then boost the scale to 10^6 and use the same ratio -- but forget all the numbers between. Instead, how about 50 million and 50.1 million? 100,000 years is still a really long time for endeavors by human-type civilizations.
Something similar happens with round numbers. Atlantis was abandoned 10,000 years ago -- why not 11,000 or 8,400? (Even if it's an initial estimate by Earth, surely the science teams can eventually refine it?)
And with spatial scales -- we've got space-opera which is "interplanetary" and "interstellar" and then, gee, the next show must be "intergalactic" -- because we don't have any familiar words for an intermediate scale. It's like "I've visited two attractions in Manhattan, I'm bored, let's visit Chicago." It might also be a misplaced analogy with the way land and oceans are distributed on Earth.
The one thing to realize about the Ancients is that they weren't like us. They didn't have the same drive to explore, expand, and to advanced. They went a really really long time between technological leaps. We see the same thing with the Asguards, and Gould.
If anything we see the same in other Humans on other worlds as well. Something about the Humans on Earth is different from everyone else, to the point that we have advanced more in the last 10k years than any other race in a million years.
This has to be one of the dumbest comments I've ever seen.
The ancients were the shining example of exploration and wanting of knowledge. They explored the galaxies, launched destiny to find out what the signal was, created untold species, and different cycles of humans. Researched and found ascension. Very, very strange comment.
You are making a very bold claim that technology and it's advancement is completely linear with no periods of stagnation. Shit, we thought we'd have flying cars by now, but we don't, and are nowhere near them.
I think Rush was right, or on the right track. That being said, the whole Stargate Universe should be no more than seven to nine hundred thousand years old (in my opinion).
I believe 60 million isn’t long enough. If you’re putting realism to this topic, remember that our galaxy is fairly young. Some experts believe they got the age of the universe wrong and that it’s actually twice the predicted age (30 billion). Now for earth, who’s to say the Alteran’s planet and society developed the same as earths? Suppose their planet, instead of dinosaurs, started to develop bipedal ape like life forms early on? Now, at this point in time (and if we don’t kill each other first), does anyone believe our science, in a million years, will not advance to the point of distant space travel? Perhaps a “ZPM”? An Einstein/Rosen bridge? The human(oid) species is about a million(plus) years old and we’ve come this far, only slowed down by the dark ages. As long as nothing interferes/derails/regresses our learning, we should be on track to visit the stars and hopefully the Asgards will be waiting.
I think its more likely a couple million years old
I can understand the confusion, the script says one thing yet visually we know its a lot longer, since the gate is older than the milky way gates and the original earth gate was 50mil years old.
The prob I have, Destinys gate looks more advanced than the milky way gates, sumfin between the milky way and pegasus gates.
It does not look more advanced and it has that terrible steam issue.
@@scorpiusbalthazar4327 , the steam i can understand but the gate visually looks more advanced than the milky way gates, the symbols illuminate. And the movie Ark of Truth shows a sketch of a stargate, the same stargate as the milky way, sum of the symbols look identical
@richardajoy79 it's not as sleek, it looks more bulky and I just mentioned the steam. Our gate clearly learned how to eliminate the steam issue and make the gate smaller.
The Ancients left their home world millions of years ago, the Destiny could easily be older than that.
I think it's old enough that we can call it... Ancient
I thought this ship was launched LONG BEFORE Atlantians came to earth. Based on stitching together SG1, SGU, & SGO. There's also different groups that came at different times, then there's earth Atlantians that went back to atlantis' galaxy.
I say, that the *Ancients didn't arrive to Earth earlier than 23 million years ago* at the beginning of geological period Neogene.
Time dilation can massively alter the age of the ship depending on the perspective of the observer given that the ship is travelling at relativistic speeds
The ship travels at FTL speeds though.
Time dilation only becomes that major a factor when it's spending most of its journey traveling close to (but not exceeding) light speed.
And it wouldn't alter the age of the ship even then.
How time dilation works is that in the rest of the universe time will flow faster than for an observer on the ship as it's traveling at those sub-luminal speeds.
So while decades may pass in the ship, in the rest of the universe it will be like hundreds of thousands to millions of years.
They had an episode of Stargate Atlantis that demostrated his exact situation with an Ancients ship that had it's FTL engines damaged and could only try to get back to Atlantis by sub-luminal speeds and the Pegasus which was travelling through hyperspace (i.e. FTL) caught up to them and found out that they had been cruising for millions of years thinking that only a couple hundred years had passed (their physical bodies were in a state of cryo-stasis as their minds were linked to a system that allowed them to operate the ship without aging rapidly.) and not realizing that the Atlanteans had already abandoned the city millions of years ago after they lost the war to the Wraith.
Probably before that left launching Atlantis.
Where is music from (of the current opening video)?
3:30 The Destiny and seed ships' gates being of a *simpler* design doesn't make them older. It just means that the Ancients chose a simpler design for that mission, without forcing any audience member to assume that the gates have to be older.
4:10 we know, you meant to contrast sci-fi and /fantasy/.
Where was the Destiny launched from? Where is the galaxy that has the older gates? The Ancients updated the gates over time. Example being Milkyway version and Pegasus version.
How much of a head start were the seed ships given? As far as age goes. Pick a number that makes it fun for you and leave it at that. Too many unanswered questions over all anyway.
Let me do some research and I'll get a rough estimate of how old destiny is and I'll get back with y'all next week
So I want to point out that the ancients ascended so they had no need in continuing to advance their tech and that at times we have hit dead spots in our tech before the next break. This would help with stretching time out. Yeah it wouldn't cover that difference in time.
the ancients had time travel. it could be several times the age of the universe if they wanted to do it that way.
Any update of a new STARGATE t.v. series ?
What were they basing the age of Destiny on, the traveled distance? I honestly dont recall. If the case, i'd see some potential in them discovering some burned out ancient prototype hyperspace drive that initially pushed Destiny way way out to begin its journey. Then relied on the slow by comparison tried and true FTL to keep it going. And I'm just spitballing here but if we ever get a SGU conclusion, how about they find the broken thing after waking from statsis and fix it to get home? Since hyperspace tech is so much more common and developed now they can plot device fix that right up to get Destiny back home. Hell how about finding some old experimental Asguard drive long abandoned in the database given to earth..and oh ho ho its got matching specs that just might work on the Destiny? Seriously though I want a conclusion, I'll take whatever your selling.
Why can't the Destiny be the ship that arrived from the Ori galaxy & was retrofitted as a star gate ship after they arrived. This would account for the design of the ship, gate & technology. Whether it be 16 million years old or 60 million years old, needs to be accounted for in canon.
Also need to remember that technology is NOT a linear system. Modern humans where technologically stagnant for LONG periods of time, before the next BIG technology changed. Wooden & stone axes to copper/bronze swords. Do I need to say more. Possible that long period in our own future where technologies will stagnant & the next evolution, say enlightenment, may take hundreds of thousands or even millions of years.
I think your logic is flawed. There is a point where technological development would slow down due the massive difficulty in advancing to the next step. Example the Destiny has an older iteration of a gate, maybe one of the oldest designs, Next you have the Milkyway gates which could be several million years worth of design improvements. Now you have the Atlantis Gates. Each gate design taking a million or so years to get there. The Ancients last wormhole travel was the wormhole drive on the city ship, and The Ori Super Gates. Also consider this tech was not the only tech being worked on.Replicator tech to fight the Wraith, Ascension, teleportation, shield tech, ZPM tech.
They may have already had hyper drive tech when Destiny was built, but as stated in Universe they couldn't use it due to the nature of the signal they were tracing through the universe.
Wait hold on plot hole. When this happened to sg1 and they took apophysis’ ship to get back they traveled quite far nearly instantaneously so im thinking if you can access hyper space you can manipulate it in a way to make that event possible. So why the fuck is destiny still out there?!
Imagine if the ori had went to pegasus & met the wraith 😂 would have been the only good thing they'd have done without knowing it & basically cleansed the pegasus galaxy for the tau ri to return unopposed 😂
The Asgard have a more sensible timeline. We know their civilisation is around 100,000 years old from the SG1 finale. Based on that, Ancient civilisation couldn't have been more than 300,000 years at most. The Destiny is less advanced than the latest Asgard tech, so it's probably around 250,000 years old. It seems reasonable it would take a civilisation like the Ancients 50,000 years to develop FTL and "first gen" Star Gate technology.
Never made sense to me, either. It needs to be rational. Tell you the truth, none of the time lines made sense to me. Hopefully they will come up with something cohesive.
I think -fasting- vasting the time scale only makes it more interesting and open to more mystery and discovery allowing the tale to stay current. Too many science tropes of this last century have been well-funded farces, between error, corruption or plagiarism and new paradigms reveal truth.
"Common Sense" is just social norm as mass-hallucinations. I think we've been around a lot longer than we are being allowed to know.
Do this, look up California forty-niner hydro-blasting gold miners under Sierra mountains finding 'modern' human skeletons and camp artifacts ten million years too old and under a mountain. It was investigated by Ca state geologist who sent stratification and artifacts / reports to Smithsonian to be first mocked, then buried. SOP
If it was 50 millions years old, how long did it take the ancients get from e.g. cavemen to be able to construct it ? Just because it is how ever old it really is, doesn't mean it took that many years to come up with it. I think that makes sense, it does to me 🤔🤪
The Ancients predate the Cavemen
@@martinhandrlica1126 What I am trying to say is... How long was it before the ancestors in their pre-technical stage e.g. Cavemen, became to be able to makes ships like the destiny. I think the confusion is that some say the Destiny is around 50 million years old but that's not the same as saying it took 50 million years for the ancients to get to the point where they could make one. I am confusing myself now, or am I ?
We should start with real human evidence of evolution on earth is less then 10 million years (5-7 by most scholars) so we could put decara repopulating universe around the 10 mil mark… that means the Alterians were back from Pegasus then and it was before this that the 4 races formed there alliance (since asgaurd knew about Pegasus) and this already causes issues with SgA saying the wraith war was before they returned back then.
So let’s say the wraith war (and as such city ships) where 10-12m years ago. The orginal stint in Milky Way doesn’t have to be long… like it could have been less the a million years from stargates being built destiny launched starvates upgraded and building of Atlantis.
Then we should consider that also makes the Knox and the Asgaurd that old as well… how long was the clowning issue? Was Thor 1 alive to know the altearens or was his great great grandparents the people in the alliance?
Also destiny doesn’t have as good a hyperdrive/ftl and doesn’t use drones so we know that it is at least a few generations back from Atlantis.
👍 dunno, couple mil sounds best to me as well
How old is Brad Wright ?.
Something could have happened for a few million years where nothing could have happened?? Idk 🤷🤯
You worry to much. Don't let your head explode. 😆
I would say, by going by the rise and fall of man, here in reality, there was at least 3 times in our very ancient past, 3 rising's of human to highly technological and something disaster happened, that wiped out a large percentage of the human population and destroyed lots the major cities, to a point where we survived, but lost all knowledge of our tech and as time went on, people seeing things our far in the past forbears did and thinking gods made them.. Just imagine, us today, if we suffered a major natural or self made disaster and 50% of the population was killed, all major cities gone power grides destroyed beyond repair. We would still survive, maybe another 20 to 30 percent dies, from starvation or what ever, those that survive all that, will be living like cavemen, in 100 years almost all the random bits of technology will will be gone, rusted, decomposed, withered away, only the things that are ancient now, will remain, we will have forgotten, it was us who made it.. We will have to start all over again.. This is how I see stargate, they were our very ancient ancestors, for some reason or another left.. I could believe the ancients on stargate could easily be our very for distant ancestors going back 20 to 30 million years ago, the same as if we were wiped almost completely out, say 500 years, there would be no trace of what we built.. Something to think about..
How can anyone seriously argue against Rush? #Rushisright 😂
Atlantis is 5 or 6 millions years old. Destiny is more old.