J. Haydn - Hob III:17 - String Quartet Op. 3 No. 5 in F major (Hoffstetter)
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- Опубліковано 5 лип 2024
- Set in 4 movements:
1. Presto (0:00)
2. Andante cantabile (4:20)
3. Menuetto (9:23)
4. Scherzando (12:18)
Also attributed to Roman Hoffstetter (1742-1815). Published in 1766.
Performers: Kodàly Quartet.
The Andante Cantabile was also used in a Frusen Glädje ice cream commercial.
I heard this as a freshman during our chamber unit, and now I'm playing it as a senior during our chamber unit this year
Cool
Poggers
Lol I’m playing it this year
Cool!
The andante was used in many ads all over the world in Europe , America , Africa , Oceana , and Asia.
Haydn's music is beauty in its purest form.
Maybe; unfortunately this work is categorically *not* by Haydn.
The normal attribution for this work, and most likely probable composer is Roman Hofstetter (1742 - 1815), but even this is based only on some shaky and circumstantial evidence.
@@elaineblackhurst1509 I see.
@@elaineblackhurst1509 after a repeated hearing of this quartet this evening I am quite assured it's not authentic Haydn.
In spite of the quartet's superficial appeal, the harmonic language here is definitely not Haydn. It's quite poor in modulations, which are central to sonata-form movements in particular in Haydn, and better-composed Classical era movements in general.
@@timothythorne9464
Well done, it’s good that you’ve been able to work it out for yourself.
Whilst this quartet is competently composed, I think the key to understanding and explaining the long-standing mis-attribution is the fact that it is composed in the style of Haydn, and the copy is quite good.
Another work that I think is similarly problematic is Haydn’s marionette opera Die Feuerstbrunst (1775 - 1778 ?) which for reasons similar to those you have correctly identified with the quartet, I suspect is at best only part-Haydn.
I believe this work was partly composed by Haydn’s pupil Ignaz Pleyel who was studying - and lodging - with Haydn between the ages of 15 and 20 (1772 - 1777) ie at the time of the composition of Die Feuerstbrunst, the overture being identical to a three movement symphony by Pleyel; I have problems with much of the rest as well, especially as it is one of the very few Haydn vocal works I would not recommend to the curious.
All good fun, and we’re as entitled as the experts by just listening with our ears, or studying a score to question some long-held possible mis-attributions.
@@timothythorne9464 Haydn was Hofstetter's idol and perhaps he himself attributed it to Haydn.
Its great that the best movement starts at 4:20
The best known movement.
That second movement is one of the two most famous tunes that Haydn wrote, along with the slow movement of his "Emperor" quartet.
@@timothythorne9464
The six string quartets of Opus 3 are *not* by Haydn.
The famous sugary-sweet serenade movement is one of the most un-Haydnesque melodies imaginable; it is astonishing that this mis-attribution is still given so much credence.
@Ultra Legendary Master
Haydn did *not* enter these quartets into his own Entwurf-Katalog which he began in c.1765, though they were mistakenly entered into another much later list by his secretary and can thus be counted a clerical error.
This clerical error appears in the Haydn-Verzeichnis - in effect the second contemporary catalogue of works by the composer - compiled by Haydn’s trusted copyist Johann Elssler in 1805.
Elssler quite reasonably accepted Opus 3 as genuine Haydn as they had been widely circulated across Europe by Pleyel in his ‘complete edition’ of Haydn quartets of 1801.
Haydn knew Pleyel well, he had been a pupil aged 15 to 20 in the 1770’s and lodged with Haydn; they met again in London in 1791/92.
Haydn cooperated with Pleyel over this ‘complete edition’ of 83 quartets that Pleyel was about to publish - which included Opus 3, hence nearly 200 years of confusion.
The HV by Elssler was overseen by Haydn, but he was mentally very fragile and forgetful by this time; additionally, if he did know these spurious works had been added to his account, some of his previous devious and unscrupulous activities in this area would suggest that he would not want them removed if it would be likely to increase his income.
(Forget all the genial ‘Papa’ nonsense so widely perpetrated across UA-cam; in an age with no copywrite or protections, Haydn was a pragmatically ruthless and efficient, sometimes scheming, devious, and downright dishonest businessman*).
HC Robbins Landon and Alan Tyson in 1964 discovered that the name of Pater Romanus Hofstetter (a Benedictine monk who admired Haydn’s music), had been only partially erased by the Paris publisher Bailleux from his engraving of the works in 1777.
Haydn’s name had been superimposed on top, and when HCRL investigated the originals, he found clear traces of Hofstetter’s name underneath on two of the quartets.
I am certain beyond any doubt that Haydn did not write Opus 3, it is likely Hofstetter may have written only two of them (Nos 1 and 2) and therefore *not* including the famous No 5; it is also very possible that Bailleux created a composite set of quartets by more than one composer.
Studies by musicologists suggest that stylistically they cannot be by Haydn,** nor do they fit with other biographical details of his career; similarly, nor are they all consistent with other works by Hofstetter.
At the very best, I would say that parts of Opus 3 can be labelled ‘attributed to Hofstetter’, and quite probably not Opus 3 No 5 which is probably impossible to attribute correctly today.
This shocking deception by Bailleux - to us today - and the origin of all the ???s was common practice in Paris at the time; there was actually more fake Haydn published in Paris during these years than real Haydn as publishers found that it sold better.
* Haydn’s questionable and less than straightforward dealings with publishers and patrons was one of the things Beethoven *did* unequivocally admire about Haydn; he frequently sold ‘exclusive’ rights to works to different recipients.
Haydn embarrassingly got involved in a legal battle in London between two publishers over a set of three ‘Haydn’ piano trios he had sold them, two of which - having attempted to palm them off as his own - were actually discovered to be by Pleyel.
** The famous sugary, sweet Serenade movement from Opus 3 No 5 is the most *un*-Haydnesque music imaginable.
@ultralegendarymaster6553
Many thanks for your kind comment which I have just come across.
You will find my comments on a number of works from the Classical period (c.1750-1800), and occasionally elsewhere, and I only ever comment on matters in which I am competent to express a view.
The historical or background context is often crucial to understanding many works from the period, and I do often relate the work to the context more than most other people would do, and for whom it is often limited to obvious examples like Haydn’s ‘Farewell’ symphony,* and Beethoven’s ‘Eroica’ symphony.
As you come across my comments, you will find these ‘contexts’ explain oddities like:
the sudden oboe solos in the last two movements of Haydn’s Symphony 38,
the ominous drum parts in the Missa in tempore belli,
the keyboard solo in the Finale of Symphony 98,
the theme of the Andante of Symphony 85 (‘La reine’),
much of the nonsense in Symphony 60 (‘Il distratto’),
the odd acoustic experiments of Symphony 13,
along with endless other examples, all of which enhance the listening experience as you understand what’s going on and why.
As I said, your kind comment was much appreciated; a somewhat tardy thank you.
* Where unfortunately the background story ie the pantomime of the exiting musicians distracts most listeners from what is in fact the apotheosis and final resolution of the greatest single work of through-composition and cyclic integration prior to Beethoven’s 5th thirty eight years later, and stands as one of the greatest symphonies of both the 18th century, and of all time.
I'm playing this and it's amazing 😉 I'm playing the viola
I think you would find Andante Cantabelie( 4:20 )
Indeed dear Chopin
Such beautiful music by Haydn, er, well, actually by Roman Hoffstetter (1742-1815), who loved Haydn's music to the point of imitation.
Beautiful
Belle interprétation
2악장(세레나데) 4:19
0:00
4:20
9:20
12:14
The andante was used for the Dutch Masters cigar commercials in the 1950's.
Well at least as people were being hoodwinked by a yet another tobacco even way back then they had nice music to listen to.
I loved those Ernie Kovacs tableaus and waited for them every week.
Great
The Andante is all very well for the first violin, but a bit harsh on the other players.
4:19
2악장 4:18
4:20 현악4중주 세레나데