Це відео не доступне.
Перепрошуємо.
Star Wars: TIE Fighter vs Vulture Droid (Legends Sources) - Spacedock Versus
Вставка
- Опубліковано 5 вер 2024
- Spacedock pits the Imperial TIE Fighter against the Confederate Vulture Droid in a technical breakdown.
SUPPORT SPACEDOCK:
www.patreon.co...
FACEBOOK: www.facebook.c...
TWITTER: / spacedockhq
REDDIT: / officialspacedock
SPACEDOCK MERCHANDISE:
www.redbubble.c...
Do not contact regarding network proposals.
Spacedock does not hold ownership of the copyrighted materiel (Footage, Stills etc) taken from the various works of fiction covered in this series, and uses them within the boundaries of Fair Use for the purpose of Analysis, Discussion and Review. Produced by Daniel Orrett. Owner/Executive Producer at Spacedock.
Two ships from the same IP this time. Don't worry, cross-universe stuff will keep happening, but sometimes there are two craft from the same franchise that make for an interesting comparison. :)
mandalorian fighter VS X-wing
You forget one of the faction that many player consider the badass faction in one of the longest support 4x Space RTS: The Trade Emergency Coalition from Sins of a Solar Empire. ;)
Star Trek, Klingon Empire, K'T'inga class Refit BattleCruiser under Worf Vs Andromeda, Andromeda Ascendant class Heavy Cruiser under Dylan Hunt
Star Wars, Galactic Empire, Nebulon-B Frigate under Demetrius Zaarin Vs Star Trek, Cardassian Union, Galor class Destroyer/Cruiser under Gul Dukat
Star Wars, Galactic Empire, Nebulon-B Frigate under Demetrius Zaarin Vs Star Trek, Cardassian Union, Galor class Destroyer/Cruiser under Gul Dukat
X-Wing Vs ARC-170
Gladiator class Star Destroyer under Sev’rance Tann Vs Vindicator class Heavy Cruiser under Demetrius Zaarin
More Legends star wars!!
The Defiant (Star Trek Deep Space-9) VS, The Odyssey (Stargate SG-1)
Vulture can wait in destroyed ships for a long time and is perfect for "mining" asteroid fields, crashed ships, can be used as a tank on surface or tunnels,... I just love them.
Nomo Hakon I like the way they speak.
During the battle at Lorshan Pass during the larger battle of Haruun Kal, more than a hundred droid fighters ambushed the Republic landing force from the asteroid field where they had been waiting. They utterly destroyed the landing force.
And how they can easily board any craft...damn, I so badly want to see how one of those thing land on venetors hull, one by one destroy each point defend cannon, and move to next one, while hyenas finish first one
Old comment but I wanted to say that they can only fly for around 20 minutes, so kinda not enough time to operate as a holdout force.
the argument that droids don't have the accuracy of a living being always bothered me, they should on the contrary be frighteningly accurate. I get that they are cheap, but even the most rudimentary targeting system should at least be able to equal the accuracy of a skilled living being. current real robots already outperform us in many tasks.
Vulture Droids are actually said to be deadly accurate. Idk why everyone says they aren't
@@xerthetvaoanwarlordpirate6991 The problem is in the movies they're generally sent against force-sensitive pilots. So sure they can't match accuracy of a jedi, but are still better than regular pilots.
Vulture Droids shot Anakin down several times in swtcw
Obi-wan too I think. Those buzz droid missiles can take out almost any pilot
Psst... There is something called a software update. Install it and it makes them smarter. However it shouldn't be that hard to mass produce a good processor. And I would install not only photo receptors but more other types. Like infra red sensors and night vision sensors.
I find it ironic that the Empire shifted away from the starfighter doctrine to avoid people from remembering the swarms of vulture droid in the Clone Wars, yet produce a starfighter that is _only_ effective in swarm tactics.
Anakin Skyobiliviator the empire wasn’t very smart. Palpatine and the Tarkin doctrine in general was pitiful.
@@punctuationman334 To be fair, an ISD can only patrol so much space and Kuat can't pump out ISD's and support fleets from thin air so the arkin doctrine had some merit. It's sorta like MAD. We've only ever used a nuke on people once and spent trillions of dollars making thousands of them that were never used and are only there to scare other countries. We literally use the fear of nukes to stop us form using nukes and guess who still has to pay for them just sitting there.
Sound familiar?
I think it was more to do with wanting to basically employ the entire Galaxy in the military-industrial complex. Employed people rebel less often, and turn-over/fatalities leads to perpetual openings in the Imperial star fighter corp. So the Empire basically created a feedback loop beneficial to galaxy security, rather than give a pile of piloting jobs to Droid brains.
@@alexanerose4820I have a very simple solution for that.
Stop making so many ISDs and move to producing smaller cruisers and medium ships. Nine times out of ten you won't need an ISD to control a system, a couple of cheaper, more flexible medium ships with a fighter complement will do just fine. They're also way easier to resupply, too.
Grand Admiral Thrawn actually suggested this as a solution, but he was a blue alien and many within the Empire had a strong human supremacist angle, so his ideas were ignored.
I think the vulture, while having a tactical disadvantage, would most likely have better accuracy than the TIE, as it can correctly calculate laser travel times, lead angles, etc. Additionally, it would be cheaper to manufacture, as you said, the TIE has advanced avionics (which are very handy, but very expensive to mass produce). the fuel limit of the vulture is a severe issue though
John Cena well in Star Wars, combat droids are stupid to satisfy the need of plot armor or CIS would have eliminated the Clone Army in a few short months with the trillions of troops it had at its disposal.
I've always loved the design of the vulture droid. It's just so sleek and fast looking. The design screams "speed and maneuverability over armor". It's like the Mitsubishi Zero of the SW galaxy.
Droid tri-fighter vs A-wing, now that's the one I want to see.
A-wing. Still a speedy bitch, but actually has shields. And I think missiles as well
The tri-fighter is insanely underestimated. It has three medium laser cannons, one heavy cannon, and two missile slots. Not to mention it is extremely tiny, very maneuverable, and has a more advanced droid brain than the vulture.
@@TheOrangeDiamond06 slight error there it's 3 light laser cannon and 1 medium laser cannon for the small Tri fighter. Even the much larger republic ARC 170 only has 2 medium laser cannons and 2 rear facing light laser cannon.
Actually in Legends, the TIE Fighter did face Vulture Droids in combat over Mustafar. But the Imperial forces in question were 501st Veterans, so they were experienced clones.
It's strange that Star Wars droids are almost always inferior to humans at their task, where in real life a human pilot would have no chance against a autonomous drone with equal weapons.
Maybe it's a deliberate measure to prevent a droid uprising?
I thought a vulture Droid costs 20000 credits than a 60000 credit tie fighter. That should've been mentioned as well. Basically credit for credit it be more like a 3 on 1 fight. With no great lose should the droids be destroyed where as losing a TIE pilot is a great and expensive loss on its own let alone the tie pilot
The Empire was quite stupid not to continue using droids as weapons. Especially things such as vulture droids.
There was a few tries - Tie Droid was used widely by World Devastators, partially a series of Tie Experimentals M1-M5 were a best middle-way - fighter piloted a basically Tie make drone, safely in a bigger ship.
There was a widespread stigma against battle droids after the end of the Clone Wars. The Imperial Senate even passed bills forbidding their use on the front lines. Things like sentry droids and the like were okay but dedicated battle droids for use on the front lines were a big "Nope". In fact, Thrawn's infiltrator droids which we see in Star Wars Rebels are technically not exactly legal.
Although after destruction of both Death Stars (if we stick to legend stuff, not Dizny Dolan "Canon") , Imperator had plans to use a Ssi-Ruuk essence transfer technology, to create a basically droids infused with souls of dead. Another way were Shadow-Droids , which were a cyborg , with brains of clones and best pilot put into small, extremely well armed machines.
most shit in starwars is stupid. they have self aware droids but don't use missiles? the whole point of the Original Triology was to make it like World War Two type battles but in space. Then the whole prequel thing happened...
MR.Chickennuget 360
A droid can't replace a human, besides that, they did use missiles and torpedoes.
I would more than accept the argument of the biological pilot. But I do not think that TIE pilots have ever really demonstrated tactical acumen. I think that although the droid pilot is incapable of abstract thought, its superior reflexes would make up for that against the average TIE pilot.
Just give the droid more advanced programming and you'll have a literal flying death machine
@@pmc614 Give the droids the ability to learn and be afraid.
Bare in mind that out of the best pilots the rebel alliance had almost all of them have been former imperial pilots
Firestorm
That just makes the Empire and their fighter doctorine look even sadder, if the Empire used heavier fighters (X-wing, TIE Defender etc) with higher pilot survivability as its primary fighter, it could perhaps have many more skilled pilots (because those already well trained pilots wouldve been more likely to survive longer and gain more experience) in fighters equal to or perhaps better than the Rebel Alliance, and they would still have more fighters than the rebels had, even if they couldnt field as many of them as they could with TIE (LN) fighters
well, the 35 minute time limit for the vulture is quite the handycap as it also needs fuel to return, so it could only ever engage targets that are 17 minutes away. in a lot of scenarios than include obstacles, such as an asteroid field, a smart TIE pilot could avoid the droids until they hit bingo fuel and then strike while they are returning.
Yes, but remember, this pits the "current" tie against an 20 year old vulture droid, it would only make sense that much of the advances that were developed and put into the tie fighters would have also been added to a newer upgraded vulture droid, thus extending it's range, increasing it's already formidable firepower and increasing it's strength and defenses.
patricio torre probably wouldn't really be a concern.
If you know your units have very limited reach, you probably wouldn't deploy them as skirmishers.
They seem to essentially be designed for assaulting capital ships, with the walk mode and all.
If the enemy retreats and tries to bait them into a chase, they would just be leaving their capital ship undefended.
Which is why CIS tactics released them in waves. If you had 100 Vulture Droids for example, you would send out 50, then simultaneously or right before those 50 were due to return to refuel, you would release the other 50, rinse and repeat.
patricio torre bahaha smart tie pilit thats funny
Why would it need a retirn trip? Its supposed to be expendable.
So in essence: Take the Tie's engines and lasers and strap them to a Vulture-Droid (rip out two of the blasters (at best the "walker-mode" blasters!) and the drive-system it uses) and you've got a great, cheap fighter...hell, tinker with the droid-brain a bit (make it adaptive like say IG-88 or HK-47) and you might get something that can challege most human pilots (except those on Rogue Squadron maybe and Jedi-Pilots!)
ps: if you gave it shields, a hyperdrive and an integrated warhead-launcher then you would have something that can easily take on most known fighters (even the Tie-Defender!)
I would just link a squad of 10 Vultures to focus on one enemy fighter. Or 5 or 3, whatever you can afford. A Vulture is about 20,000 credits to the Tie's 60,000, and that's not counting more expensive fighters. And you don't have to pay to train, feed, house, clothe a living organic pilot. So you get way more ships for your credits.
And even if one to one, the Droid Brain isn't as good, if you have 3 to 1, 5 to 1, or 10 to 1 fighter superiority, and you link them in teams to work together to take 1 fighter down, the enemy doesn't stand a chance. While he's dodging one, another is taking aim, and if he does a barrel roll for emergency evasive maneuvers, the third, fourth, and fifth are locking on for when he comes out of it.
And then your point that you can upgrade them as needed.
Yeah an Ion Vulture with a wee bit of armament upgrade would be a nasty bit of work. Or even just add some extra/external fuel-slug magazines to the Vulture if need be, and skip the engine-refit. External fuel tanks/modules have been commonly used kit to extend aircraft operating time since WWII, which is they style of fighter dog-fighting that Star Wars is based on.
Interesting, so in terms of a straight up big star wars style space battle, where both sides just spam fighters at eachother untill capital ships get within shooting range. A swarm of Vulture droids would most likely be preferable. Their superior weapons loadout and the swarm focused dogfight combat of star wars would mitigate the advantage of any individual pilots creativity. Their light tank support ability also makes them seem preferable in a war for a planet, as they could be reassigned to any ground battle going badly from the space battle. But since the tie-fighter is cheaper, they could eventually outproduce any similarly powerful vulture droid producing group.
Precisely yeah. There's also the fact that the TIE has far superior avionics and sensors, as well as not being limited by a 35 Minute flight time between refueling stops. So for a massive dominion like the Galactic Empire, the TIE is far more useful for sector patrols, recon, or any job requiring particularly complicated orders.
Is the TIE fighter really cheaper though? If you're only looking at equipment and the ship itself, yeah, but the TIE fighter also needs to factor in the costs of training and housing pilots, while vulture droids are completely ready when they roll off the assembly line.
Maintenance should also be considered. Vultures would likely have more moving parts than most fighters.
Autoxidation The tie fighters are swarming ships made to overwhelm enemies with sub par defenses and weaponry, but since you have to take the time to train a pilot I would say its more expensive in that aspect.
The Vulture Droid seems to be king of the cannon fodder. I think it would beat the Tie Interceptor for the same reasons it would beat the Tie Fighter, but the next tier of ships (like the Tie Avenger or an A-Wing) would completely destroy the Vulture Droid.
To expand on what you said, while the Vulture is superior in combat, the TIE is far better at other tasks while remaining a powerful ship in combat. TIEs were useful for patrolling, scouting etc and a live pilot could carry out more tasks than a droid. So, as you said, the TIE is a great general purpose ship, just what the empire needed.
Expendable, versatile, AND cheap.
Yes, as a general purpose fighter the Tie is the logical choice, but for fleet defense I think the vulture droid, especially what would evolve from it over the years (I would think that between episodes 3 and 4 if the empire continued using the vulture droid it would be upgraded with many of the advances used in the Ties, giving them longer range, higher speeds, more firepower and better durability) so it would have been the clear choice for fleet defense. I mean they literally could be on the deck of any capital ship and/or death star when not in hyperspace and thus would respond immediately to any threat as opposed to needing pilots to get ready and to launch to get out to fight.
The Vulture could be used for surgical air-strikes, act as a ground attack craft, and also be used for scouting and patrols, so it has versatility in spades.
@@darwinxavier3516 Aren't Vultures cheaper?
Lizard Man oh they are cheaper!
Vulture Droids: $20,000
TIE Fighters: $60,000
“Production time and resource cost is far lower than the Vulture droid.” ExCUSe me? Vulture droids cost about a third in terms of credits and don’t need any pilots which no doubt cost a frightening amount to maintain and train, especially to the degree the imperials trained their pilots. Vulture droids would be far better for the way the empire used their starships, IE in swarm tactics, cause you can throw as many of them away as you like without wasting years worth of training with each pilot lost. Imperials are friggen dumbasses for throwing highly skilled pilots away in flying trash cans the the TIEs are.
The TIE fighter has never made any sense to me. An intense and time consuming train up to put pilots in a craft with almost no field of view and marginal weapons. Even though it's said only the elite make it to be TIE pilots, other sources say a TIE pilot is considered a lucky veteran to make it back from their first combat sortie. Are they expendable chaff or well engineered fighters? and if the latter, why do aging X-Wings with marginal support facilities consistently mop the floor with them? I want to like StarWars spacecraft, but the theory and lore behind them all is just random as to the physics and capabilities of the universe. Ships just do whatever the plot demands.
They certainly are far from well engineered. Look at the design. The pilot can barely see anything. How are you supposed to dogfight with something like that. On top of that it has no shields and sucks in the atmosphere because it is not aerodynamic at all and it is really large because of those stupid panels on the side.
They are designed to look menacing, and to be easily mass produced. They're not supposed to fight against anything more powerful than pirates. Palpatine just underestimated everyone's thirst for freedom
I suppose it is just the lore having to plaster over aesthetics. They look the way they do because they looked neat in a sketchbook. I doubt the model maker in 1977 imagined people wanting to take a deep dive on what foundries the TIEs parts came from. "Looks cool on screen" is the driver, which makes sense.
That's something that's always bugged me about TIEs, and stormtroopers too. These supposedly elite units constantly get shafted and are deployed in large numbers?? That's not what elite units are for. I'm surprised the empire hasn't gone bankrupt. How can they afford all these "elite" units in such large numbers? The damages or destruction of spacecraft? Compensation for loved ones? People keep telling me of the deadly accuracy of stormtroopers and the lore behind their intensive training, but they're always portrayed as expendable goons.
@@adudeontheinternet8246 1) Empire doesn't become bankrupt because it cannot go bankrupt. It owes no debts to anything other than itself. Worse case scenario is hyper-inflation and economic crisis. The economic crisis may have actually happened with the destruction of the death star (which must have consumed quite a bit of the GDP of the empire and its resources) - The second death star's destruction and the instability that followed would have lead to a massive collapse of consumption that would have driven many planets to financial ruin.
2) We deal in the numbers of trillions. The destruction the rebel alliance does to the empire is not that great in the grand scheme of things.
3) Stormtroopers/Soldier - They are cloned or condition. Compensation is what they earned doing their job. Glory is what they earn in death.
4) Depends on the theories you listen to. Stormtroopers were intentionally firing at, and missing the heroes so they could use them to lead them to their base on Yavin 4.
a) There was a literal space-wizard leading the attack on Stormtroopers. The other Y-Wings and X-wings got their fudged packed on the death star.
b) Stormtroopers preformed admirably in any engagement they have. The battle on Endor is a good example of where movies don't do a good job of conveying information. Ewoks were destroyed. There was approximately 12800 soldiers on the moon. (An entire legion) - Ewoks were killed enmassed, but there were way more Ewoks than Stormtroopers. The Ewoks used a significant number of guerilla warfare tactics that frustrated imperial attempts at destroying them outright. They lost a lot of assets. The Imperials re-organized withdrew after the Death Star was destroyed though.
5) The empire lost when it fragmented to the infighting by the Moffs and Grand Moffs. It took 15 years from the Battle of Endor (in legends) before the Republic "won" - and had been established in earnest. Most of the Empire's resources was wasted infighting between the Moffs. Stormtroopers would not be replaced fast enough to fight off the Republic once it had consolidated control.
Vulture droids are ridiculously smart. They figured out how to form hives after the war, and there's an entire community of them living in the extreme orbit of a star somewhere.
They're supposed to be able to out fly almost any pilot, and indeed, I can't think of any time in which a TIE managed to survive being attacked with missiles. There's really no comparison.
I don't think the TIE Fighter stands a chance against the Vulture in any instance excepting particularly skilled, ace pilots. These things were able to throw down with clone pilots, who brought a life time of training and the blood of a highly competent mandalorian with them.
Machine brains are usually superior to biological brains, and vulture droids which survived more than a few battles were given veteran paint jobs marking them as such. They are insanely hard to bring down (and I used one quite extensively in a star ships minis game back in the day). Droids learn very fast, making them hyper competent at their jobs. It's why no one can do R2's job better than R2, and why the IG Magna Guards after only weeks of training by Grievous were able to be a serious threat to jedi knights.
Vulture Droids also can vector their thrust and LAND on objects in space, unlike a TIE Fighter. You'd be unlikely to see them crash in to asteroids as often as we see TIE Fighters doing this.
Usually, when you see incompetent droids, they're hive minded like the B1's, where a single processor is splitting up its power between thousands of linked, lesser minds. Or they're not experienced droids, which most aren't due to mind wipes. So when you say the biological pilot is superior, what you're saying is a freshly forged droid's lack of experience and reliance on pre-programmed maneuvers won't be as good as a pilot with actual experience.
This happens, but.. not as often as you think. Which is why B2 battle droids can throw down with your average Clone Trooper.
A TIE Fighter is designed to swarm, defeat with numbers, and weed out the weak from the strong. They are weak on purpose. A Vulture Droid is designed for cost effectiveness. Efficiency is the word used with them. That alone should tell you which is better.
Really, the only complaint against the Vulture droid I can hear is the engines, as the TIE’s ion engines are better for a fighter than the solid fuel pellets. That’s not much of a difference, but usable, there;s an easy fix: just install ion engines onto the droids.
Also, I’m curious how the Legends-verse TIE-d droid fighter would stack up, considering it too has a droid brain and is slightly altered from the TIE.
Its funny how the droid army was probably equal or even superior to the empire in a lot of ways. The story writers probably don't think about technical evolution's between eras they just want to make a good story.
canon fodder vs canon fodder
Literally this.
well put. It's like lemmings yelling "Hey, let's race! Loser wins, eh?"
Joshua Plotkin but vulture droids are better cannon fodder.
Also remember, the organic pilot can be a disadvantage because it limits the maneuverability of the ship.
Spaceball One vs. Eclipse SSD
Yellow-13 quick activate the plot device ensign. yes sir (bleep). self destruction activated. oops. (empirial SSD. explodes)
Spaceball One would make a good April 1st episode. Maybe something for next year...:P
Sapceball One vs the Planet Express Ship. You know you want it.
Yellow-13 Spaceball one would win lol.
If SB1 goes to plaid, the Eclipse is fucking done
Never understand why expend so much in training pilots when they and their ships are made to work on swarm formations and sheer numbers and are clearly expendable.
To use that a fighter that way it would be logical to have less trained pilots and less time consuming trainings.
If you expend so much in training pilots, give them a tool that can make that investment worth.
i love you videos Spacedock. your information is more accurate and used properly then other vs groups.
hello I found the
Vulture Droid 19,000 cerdits
TIE fighter 60,000 cerdits
so the price is 1/3 does not pilot training
but the main blind man on fuel for a haf hours of flight, but that can be altered by prichicenim on the ship see episode III
Imperial TIE Interceptor (Star Wars) vs Wraith Dart (Stargate)
Captain Pampers YES PLEASE
Captain Pampers YES PLEASE
I wonder if the darts could just sweep the TIEs with their abduction beams.
I don't think the beam would work in that way, never seen it happen in Atlantis anyway so I'm assuming not.
Please keep this Series going. It became my favorite Spaceship comparison or versus series ever.
So I'm thinking a Vulture droid, upgraded with ion engines to back up their existing engine system, add a shield generator, and maybe have some of them remotely piloted from the command ship.
4:34 Good. Have as much truth as you can. I applaud you sir.
I liked the part in the Thrawn Novel when they fight against Vulture droids. And then there was that mission in the OG Battlefront II where you fight Seps as the Empire on/over Mustafar.
I think overall the vulture is better for the Empire.
As damaged vultures can be retrieved and cannibalised for parts and its versatility is far higher
Vulture vs BSG Cylon Raider. That would be cool match - both unmanned, very maneuvrable, and I would even dare say - somewhat similar crafts.
We talking scar or a regular assembly line model?
@@firestorm165 squadron of each, regular models
@@Reynevan100 too frakking close to call
I think that something that should be taken into account is the tactics of the two fighters. While both are used to swarm enemy ships with little regard to their own safety, I think that a squadron of TIE fighters could have the chance to outthink and outmaneuver Vulture droids due to the training of the pilots. If you ever do continue these VS series between fighters or other ships, I think that this should be brought up.
Thanks for the closing comments, I was about to make an order of 500 Vulture droids for my fleet but you've convinced me to choose the Tie-Fighters instead! Alas! Now I'll have to train some pilots and that'll cost me credits. But well met friend, well met.
One thing to point out - the conclusion that the TIE is better than the Vulture Droid for overall deployment is actually only half-true. If anything, they both have uses. The TIE does indeed have better range and the advantage of a sapient pilot, but the fact that you could simply swarm Vulture Droids from literally any ship makes them better when you simply need a fighter screen for defense. If I was in charge of the Galactic Empire I would have kept Vulture Droids in production simply for that fact.
There's also the fact that Vulture Droids are lower-profile and in theory you could carry far more of them than you can TIE fighters.
On a side note, a few improvements, such as switching to Ion engines, upgrading the targeting computers (I don't see why droid targeting is so clumsy when in real life a computer can calculate firing solutions from beyond LOS) and remote piloting for "fire control" units, could make the Vulture Droid pretty much superior to the TIE fighter in all respects. If the CIS survived past the formation of the Empire, they'd probably be an even bigger thorn in the Empire's side than the Rebel Alliance was simply due to the fact that they can out-swarm TIE/LNs with a slightly superior fighter.
The best thing the Empire could have done is keep (and upgrade) the vultures for use as fleet escorts and close range cannon fodder. Then put those well trained pilots to good use by developing an excellent long range strike (think better X-wings) and interceptor/air superiority (A-wing/Tie Defenders) fighters.
Anybody else think of the book Tarkin (Cannon)? In the opening chapters there's a battle between TIEs and Vulture Droids among others. The TIEs won in the end but it was an example of how it could play out.
I'm late to this video, but I had always felt that the empire should have continued to use upgraded versions of droid starfighters, especially considering how low a value they placed in their fighters. Even if they were only used in a fleet defense role they would have far outclassed the tie fighters, and might have even been able to save both death stars. The rebellion had much better fighters then the empire, but their were insanely low and considering the carrying capacity of the second death star, and of the ships the empire had there for the battle it could have put up a wall of fighters that even without the shield around the death star the rebels would have found it impossible to break through, and a wall of missiles from the wall of upgraded vulture droid starfighters would have all but eliminated anything anything smaller than probably a heavy cruiser.
Of course asking about that would bring up, why did the empire have such high standards for their pilots, when they knew they were sticking them into a flying death traps whose only benefit was the ability to swarm targets.
And yes, I put far to much thought into fictional military, military arms and armaments, but weapon systems have been my "thing" since long before I went into the military, and now that I am off work recovering from spinal surgery I have a lot of time to study, analyze and consider things like this and of course it helps keep my mind busy.
The 1998 Star Wars Encyclopedia has an "acceleration compensator" entry, which says these are used in "medium- and larger-sized spacecraft such as the Millennium Falcon."
Rogue squadron has the x-wing as the FIRST star-fighter, to be equipped with Inertial Dampeners, though they were set so the pilot could still feel the g forces, such that he wouldn't over-stress the ship.
This, is very key, the Tie fighters LACKED any form of life support including... Acceleration Compensation limiting the fighters to the G-forces the pilots could sustain. They didn't even have artificial gravity.
One needs to consider this... the vulture droid is limited to the structural limits of the fighter in a dog fight, while the pilot is limited to their own g tolerance.
I've always been surprised at what bad shots droids often are. I mean, it's mostly math and timing, a computer should be able to handle that pretty well.
Twelve secs in, and I'm calling it now: that TIE is toast.
Edit: Given the canon scenes of TIE pilots simply dying by asteroid or missing easy head-on jousting shots, I'm surprised the human component was the high point of the Fighter.
But I was right. xD
I'm surprised that you did not consider the considerably smaller profile of the vulture droid compared to manned fighters.
When I analyze starwars militaries I always find myself concluding that a mix of droids and biotics would be the best strategy. The swarm strategy of battledroids offers the obvious advantage of numbers, but the lack of creative and adaptive problem solving makes them easily outstrategized. B1s will just stand in the open shooting until the target is dead or they're destroyed. Imagine how much they could accomplish if there was a person there to command them to take strategic fire possitions and cover. The same is true for space. If I were building a navy, the vulture droid would make up the bulk of my starfighter force. Deploying a swarm of vulture droids with primarily defensive missions, escorting my manned fighter squadrons and screening any fighters that attempt to engage the capital ship. The droid fighters are faster, more maneuverable and completely expendable. They could be programmed to throw themselves into the path of missiles to defend the more valuable assets. A fighter squadron could have 3 Xwings on an attack run, with a complement of 6 vulture droids. Every manned fighter with 2 automated wingmen. The vultures benefit from a command structure with creative problem solving allowing their superior aspects to shine.
As this strategy continues the droids will move more firmly into the primary weapons platforms, while the manned ships prioritize shields and maneuverability. Perhaps a ship more like the arc 170, where the copilots quardinate their droid fighters squadrons, with the ship itself engaging in primarily defensive actions. If a brain ship is lost, it's contingent of droids seamlessly blends into the rest of the battle, either replacing another pilot's lost droids, or running independently on it's base programing.
To me, droid swarms seem significantly more effective than point defense guns when it comes to keeping the enemy fighters away as well, seeing as they can engage enemy fighters outside of the point defense range. When you need cannon fodder, droids are the best bet.
Regarding the weapon layouts: Since a lot of SW space combat is directly based on WWII, maybe this analogy will be helpful. The center-mounted guns on the vulture would be the equivalent of the rifle-caliber MGs (7.62mm, for example) found on pre-WW2 designs (and quickly recognized as completely obsolete), while the wing-mounted guns would be roughly the equivalent of .50cal MGs. The TIE's guns on the other hand would be comparable to the 20mm autocannons that became more and more prominent as the war progressed.
The 501st in THQ's BF2 stated that combat against the fighters in their gear was nostalgic (implying that they enjoyed the combat) resulting in the easy destruction of Gizor Delso's droid military on Mustafar.
As great as this versus episode is SD. So far nothing has surpassed your first one when you pitted The Scimitar from Star Trek against Sovereign of Mass Effect.
7:32
It may be true that a TIE can be produced faster and cheaper than the Vulture, but it takes years to train a pilot and you have to feed and pay him
The Great Ship from Robert Reed's Great Ship series! It's bigger than Jupiter and fascinating!
This was very enjoyable and I found it truly fascinating but I do prefer the setup that was used for your first Versus episode.
But keep up the awesome work!!
Small correction. If i recall legends lore right, independent planets and organization and even individuals acquired number of vulture droids after the clone wars, from crashed Confederate ships, weapons stockpiles, repaired wrecks and so on. After that Empire pushed forwards and started to conquer those systems, so yes TIE fighters and Vulture droids have been in combat. Heck there might have been even canon sources to this in rebels, but i really cant remember for certain.
Vulture has missiles, it's unmanned and can be reconfigured. TIE is faster and has sun batteries as wings.
Harrower Dreadnought vs Imperial Star Destroyer I or II.
One other area that the Vulture droids have an advantage over the TIE is if they are deployed on a "carrier" that is sacrificed in order to get the droids closer to the star destroyer. With out the munitions, it would be a challenge for them to board said ship and cause trouble. With munitions, especially the buzz droids, the Vultures could easily rip open the Imperial Carriers without much strain.
Now an interesting one on one fight would either be a Tie Bomber vs Y-Wing, or a Tie Defender vs B-Wing.
That hexagon on the back of the tie is the ion engine output point and has lovers for thrust vectoring. Those solar panels power the weapons they ruder lock maneuvering in atmosphere, limit visibility and there lose means weapons don't work. All other tie variants use the same for the most part cockpit but you can't see out of that ether. in the movies rear windows are in the top hatch, the space behind the pilot is engine.
A Vulture Droid can pull manuvers which would kill most organic pilots. During WW2, the German Junkers Ju-87 would routinely generate as much as 8g during its almost vertical dive, causing pilots to temporarily black out and risk slamming into the ground shorty after their bomb had hit. TIE pilots were supposed to use their superior speed and manuverability to avoid being hit, but they were limited by what the body could take. A droid doesn't have that problem. Nor does it need a pressurized cabin, life support or emegency rations. And droids don't feel fear and don't planic.
I like the new video structure by categories
I love this. Please do more. My suggestion, Rebellion A-Wing vs Republic-Empire V-Wing.
UNSC Infinity Vs USS Enterprise (Sovereign Class)
Actually, I would really dig that comparison.
Overhaul VIDS that's not very fair considering the strength of the Infinity's Mac Cannons. Although something like UNSC Infinity VS Malevolence (Star Wars) would be more even. Both ships are armed with incredibly potent weapons and seeing how they use them in a set arena would be fascinating
I'm not the most well versed with Star Trek lore but based on what I know, I say that match up is unfair to the Infinity. The Infinity's SMACs pack at best a 210 Exajoule punch per shot. The Enterprise has weapons in the Zettajoule range (please disregard the random 400 Gigajoule nonsensical techno-babble). We've seen smaller and less powerfully armed vessels in Star Trek obliterate 30% of a planet's crust with just several shots. Furthermore, the greatest range we've seen UNSC warships fight at is 3,000 km. Star Trek warships fight at vastly greater distances on a regular basis; I recall one instance where two ships were in a slugging match with each other at 90,000 km distance.
but you also must consider the Infinity's size, utilities, and fighter support. I think this would be a fun battle to watch since it would be more a battle of how can land a fatal blow more often. It's really up to the Infinity's fighter complement to take down the Enterprise
(hell maybe a spartan 4 can "what if you miss" his was to the enterprise if you know what i mean )
Raghuvar Vasudev Where do you get that zettajoule technobable from? Nearly every time star trek battles are in visual range, once they say that ship destroys another from 300.000km tough. It was a fleet of warbirds and keldons which aren't as powerful as E but still quite close.
Oh my god YES. So happy you guys did another vs video 😁😭
You forgot one major thing. Humans are prone to error in high stress situations while robots aren't really as interested in survivability or anything like that. So basically the droid can keep a cool head while human might freeze or make a mistake.
I snorted when I saw the title of the video, the vulture's gunna just kill the TIE Fighter in a space dogfight.
I love this format. Thank you for making it :)
Cylon Basestar vs Halcyon-class cruiser?
A bunch of us had a huge debate in the comments about it during the last VS match. Would love to see it be taken to the screen.
great video! still waiting on the b wing!!
Despite the Tie being less expensive to produce than the Vulture on a one to one basis, I still get the impression that a faction using Vultures can afford to lose, and can more easily replace, larger numbers of them than a comparable faction using ties. While the Tie is cheaper than the Vulture, the pilot operating it is not... It's easy to replace AI, but very difficult to replace skilled pilots. If enough Ties are shot down the quality of pilots operating their replacements will continually decline... the replacement Vultures will always be just as potent as their predecessors.
TIE Fighters were meant to fight with TIE Bomber support, which would provide any needed additional ordinance.
Thanks guys. Another great video keep up the great work
Arc 170 vs droid tri fighter
we need more of these, (at least i miss them)
This is awesome!!! Hope you can do the Interceptor and Defender vs Droids.
Id say that if a command ship were to command the vulture then the biological pilot of the tie fighter would be outmatched in creativity id say.
While I appreciate the low maintenance cost of TIEs, I wonder how much of that cost is off-set by the life support (and salary) required by the organic pilots. The production cost of TIE/LNs were 3x that of a vulture droid. As much as TIEs may have relied on swarm tactics, vulture droids are likely a better choice for the task.
Another one to think about is the Rebel Alliance A-Wing starfighter vs a Harvester Attack ship (then again, that is likely unfair on the Harvesters considering they got their arses kicked by 1996s Air Forces once the shields had been knocked out).
At 5:42 that image shows former CIS ships with Rebel Alliance markings. Not something you see very often.
Here's a good one: how about the Imperial Navy Voss-pattern Valkyrie vs. the D77H-TCI Pelican.
One thing about the buzz droids breaching the cockpit. When it comes to doing that to a tie fighter, it's pretty pointless considering the pilot wears a space suit since the cockpit of a tie doesn't afford much in the way of life support.
ShiftyMcGoggles still their is another problem. You have buzz droids that have buzzsaw that will gut the pilot. They are not just meant for disable and sabotage, they are designed to kill.
The empire had a good economy, so they could've just built so many of the Vultures, without being dependent on Pilots, [Training Time, Growth, supplies etc]
Yeah, I think the Evil Emperor just wanted to send hapless pilots to their deaths.
Because TIE/LN and /IN didn't have shields, their missile countermeasures were quite good. They could jam the sensors or override the programming. Since the vulture droids relied so heavily on sensor readings, jammers would've been crippling.
The CIS did fight with the Empire, kind of... pitting TIE fighters against the Vulture Droids. Gizor Delso and his mini-rebellion on Mustafar.
How about the following versus?
1. Vger vs narada
2. Long night of solace vs super star destroyer.
3. B wing vs tie defender
4. Death star vs beast planet(From shadow raiders)
5. Drej fortess vs mantle's approach
6. battlemoon(shadow raiders) vs death star
7. Leviathan(starcraft) vs ice bug(starship trooopers)
3. This would end badly for the B-wing. They were decently swift in a straight line but lacked agility and were not meant for dogfighting. The B-wing in my opinion has more firepower (well it is meant for bombing the crap out of capital ships) but the Defender would run rings around the B-wing and shoot it down quickly.
When you get a Battlefront 2 ad before hand :D
Well, technically, if you think of it - Tie is basically an adaptation of advantages of Vultures, driven by CW experience.
Lightest possible piloted craft, configured specifically for a space superiority/intercept mission. And a good example of a proverb that militaries always prepare for the last war.
Would've worked marvelously against both Republic and CIS. Not so much against the rebels, whose X-wings(with some Mary Sue tricks, of course) have essentially turned the table over.
It's a shame that trilogies&prequels were so well thought through, yet thrown under the train for that we have now.
Vengeance-Class Dreadnought (Star Trek: Into Darkness) versus and Imperial Star Destroyer (Star Wars).
Madcat/Timberwolf (Battletech) versus AT-AT (Star Wars) (Planetside)
Doomsday Machine (Star Trek) Versus Star Killer Base (Star Wars)
Gunstar (The Last Starfighter) Versus Delta Flyer (ST: Voyager)
You know, if you take the twin engines, fuel tank and chin mounted guns and put those onto a vulture droid with some adaptive learning or a pilot's clone brain inside it similar to a cylon raider and you got quite a 'upgrade'.
Endorsing the TIE fighter. Interesting twist ending.
So, in a one on one duel, the Vulture would win, but in a large battle, with both sides made up of numerous craft of equal value, the TIE fighters would take more loses at the start, but then win as the battle goes on.
Seems legit.
Espcially since Ties are designed for battle longevity with the big solar panels and laser weapons while Vultures are best for a devastating first strike with missiles and reaction drives, but pretty soon they would run out of ammo and/or fuel while the ties would be able to stay out in space far far longer
I think its important to look at the military doctrine of each side too. For the Imperials the TIE is a better choice, but for the CIS the Vulture is the better choice. Also im not sure about the costs of each as the mentioned in the video as the only numbers I can find show the vulture at only 1/3 the production cost of the TIE. The only limiting factor for the vulture is the fuel system as its cannons are good enough for dog fighting. If I had to pick one to use in a large scale war I would take the Vulture everyday.
@Battleoid One thing to keep in mind though is that the empire would need more ships to have the same amount of starfighters on the field. Imperial doctrine was based on large ships with few starfighters, whereas CIS ships often had large designated starfighter hangars and the Vulture droids could also 'lift' along on the exterior of the ship. Combined with droid fighters taking up less storage space this enabled a single CIS Recusant-class light destroyer to easily carry 240 vulture droids, whereas Imperial I and II-class Star Destroyers could each carry 72 starfighters (TIE's). This would mean a single CIS ship had more starfighters than three imperial Star Destroyers combined. The combined force of three Star Destroyers might fend them off long enough (at the cost of heavy losses) for fuel to become an issue for the vulture droids, but I think two star Destroyers would be overrun long before those thirty minutes have passed with two vulture droids for every TIE fighter.
Star wars Battlefront 2 2006-version had the empire go to mustafar, and battled vulture droids in tie fighters
So, in other words, it's like the F-4 Phantom II vs the MiG-17 in Vietnam. The Phantom, by and large, was a much better plane with superior weaponry at far range, it wasn't really able to compete with the MiG at visual range until the late 60s, when guns and better flight training were implemented for both the Air Force and the Navy. The Phantom was also durable, although its ruggedness didn't really mean much when on the receiving end of a 37mm autocannon, as well as 2 23mm autocannons.
Am I the only one thinking about replacing the TIE pilot with a Vulture Droid brain?
Purely for science of course!
Yeah, yeah, I remember there is a TIE variant that is basically that though I'll have to look it up as I don't remember if that one possessed standard TIE capabilities or if it was slightly improved.........
Theoretically a droid fighter can:
Have battleplans for any scenario
Perform any maneuvers, while being able to take hundreds of Gs
Be combat ready instantly
Leave more space for armaments and fuel
And lead targets with an 80% plus accuracy rating
I've always felt the TIE Fighter would have been better off as a remote controlled unit. The spend all this time training pilots only to put them in expendable ships. However if the pilots all flew the ships remotely from their base ship, they wouldn't die when defeated and could learn from their mistakes.
The buzzdroid sequence is a lot of fun, but if those missiles had contained explosives, Obi-Wan would have been dead
The 'fact'/lore explanation that the empire puts time consuming, best of the best TIE pilots on a manuervable yet cheap and fragile starfighter, which (I assume) lowers the chance of their survival after a battle against equally competent enemy force (compared to a starfighter that has higher chance of survival for the pilot), which in turn lowers the chance of pilots getting more experience and thus becoming even more skilled, always seemed like a huge contradiction and boggled my mind. Yeah yeah, I get it, you have stupendously massive resources and pool from which you can get new recruits from, but if those pilots were even better, you'll have easier time crushing the rebels!
Space IJN at it's finest!
I want a vulture droid updated with empire tech. Aka destroy everyone else shockingly easily and cheaply.
Correct me if im wrong, but i believe the book Tarkin has a part where the empire is attacked by a CIS ship and vulture droid ships.
Well I can safely say that a lot of Vultures fell under my TIE fighter's blasters during the Mustafar space mission in the original battlefront 2 ;)
I would still pick vulture droids over tie fighter. Vulture droids are straight up machines that can always be reproduced and lack the need for a human pilot. If given enough time vulture droids could've been monsters moving at inhuman speeds.
The only missile defence a TIE/ln is to turn dead on to the missile and fire. There is a better than 50% chance of hitting the missile. This is normally the only defence TIEs have against A-Wings but even this fails once both ships close into laser cannon range.