I like the way that this actually takes a look at real life pivotal historic decisions and actually tries to piece together what would have happened if things had gone differently, rather than just coming up with random nonsense.
You only say that because you are used to it. People from Dylan's timeline could find our timeline more exciting. And don't even get me started on the timeline where the internet was first invented by the Soviets...
Yeah that syntax looks very nice to me. Maybe it's because I'm used to curly braces programming languages or maybe it's because the link reminds me of markdown.
Also, it's much more succinct. With HTML you have to write each tag twice for no reason.
Рік тому
While I agree, tilde is so painful to use on so many keyboards, I'd rather not. But honestly the same goes for backspace and other special characters, because they are based on US keyboard layouts.
He's also an excellent programmer, he just never gets the recognition because Carmack is operating from a different dimension. But Romero is better than me, my colleagues, and anyone I've ever met.
18:11 almost reminds me of ao3 (non-profit fanfiction site aka archive or our own), where tags on a piece of writing are added by the author and then sorted by volunteers, who make synonymous tags redirect to the preferred one, and create parent tags, allowing users to apply a dizen filters and find exactly what they want to read. Very different vibe to algorithmic search engines
This might be the single best tech talk I have ever seen. So captivating and exciting especially since these things very well could have happened. And omg, that alternate version of HTML, I'll never be able to look at a closing tag again without puking, and Lisp instead of Js, and Java never taking off...
I for one, fell in love with those brand new NEXT PALM handheld PCs, small size, robust body, long battery life and powerful computing abilities with classic GRID browser. What else can I need?
If I understand Darvin's theory, there is no best solution promoted. What has the highest number of descendants is a mutation that best suits the niche.
Watching this on this google powered device on software for a Google owned website really puts this million dollar deal that never was into perspective.
I love this spec-fic universe you've built! I'm a Mac/Linux guy today, but would I have been a BeOS guy? A NEXT guy? Or would I have gotten in with CP/M and MP/M? Would Linux have been a project or would other OSes have taken over before there was such a need for a free UNIX-like OS? I'm sure with the multi-media chops Be would've brought to Apple, they'd've come up with something iPod-like, but I wonder how integrated multi-media would be in the GRID?
This talk reminded me of Alan Kay who said as much about the sad state of the web. From an interview in FastFortune (www.fastcompany.com/40435064/what-alan-kay-thinks-about-the-iphone-and-technology-now) "But then, what you’ve got is a gazillion people exploiting all this technology that was invented in the ARPA/PARC community, and most of them are not even curious. You have Tim Berners-Lee, [the inventor of the World Wide Web] who was a physicist, who knew he would be thrown out of physics if he didn’t know what Newton did. He didn’t check to find out that there was a [Douglas] Engelbart [the engineer who had done pioneering work on hypertext and invented the computer mouse].
Screw it, I'm quitting software development, enroll in physics and work my ass off inventing Sliders technology just to find and move to that dimension!
Interesting side note to this, during the time IBM started selling home pc's they leased ms-dos from microsoft and could sell it with their pcs. The fact that they didn't do a deal to make it ibm exclusive meant that MS could sell the OS to anyone. Now couple this fact with both Compaq and Phoenix legally backwards engineering the proprietary ibm pc bios, and ibm using off the shelf parts to build pcs meant that any company could create pc clones. Compaq did just that selling massive amounts and Phoenix just sold bios chips and got rich too. This combination of missteps by ibm, and others like sticking with 286 when 386 became available, and barking up the dead os/2 tree (also developed by MS for IBM) for too long when windows showed up, meant that ibm was basically crushed in the home pc market. They could have cornered that market and I shudder to think how pc history would have suffered if that happened. Luckily for all of us they screwed up and thought they were untouchable.
I recall being in the first semesters of College when all this WWW stuff started.- using Mosaic . (and using NeXT cubes btw... fantastic machines) ... and I btw. still have a BeBox, running BeOS (NetPositive is unfortunately not a Grid-browser ... it's a web-browser) I have to say, though ... looking back on BeOS from a technical perspective. As much as it was an fantastic OS, basing the API on 1996-style C++ might not have been a good idea in the long run.
What a fascinating talk and it must have taken a ton of time for all the research so the whatifs had some basis in reality. It actually took me some time to get what he was talking about since there were quite a few familiar people and software in there but eventually I got it. :p
@@leap123_that wouldn't be remarkable at all in 1999, as even 2.5" hard disks reached 5 GB already in 1997 or 1998. But on the other hand, 64MB of RAM also wasn't really remarkable in 1999.
Never liked html and xml in general due to the end tag nonsense. In some way I think the original proposal would have been easier to work with. Back in the early 2000's I was working on a project at NERA TMN (later part of Protek) where we needed some configuration data and everywhere I looked they suggested using xml. So instead of using anything off the shelf I just made my own and named it GenData (Generic Data), a simple system using curly braces for scope, properties colon value, and angle brackets for arrays to look like any other programming language. It was used everywhere in the project but never published online in any form. Now years later when I am working in a different company, we also needed the same thing and I searched online a bit and there is JSON, the spec is practically identical to my old GenData. Obviously its so simple that anyone could have made it and indeed that is why its so brilliant (enhanced by the JSON5 spec/library with what should have been part of it since the beginning).
might have been interesting if you actually got the names of the companies right somewhere found in some text files discovered during the archeology project called FreeDOS, this actually happened ... except ... the company was novel ... the year was 1994 ... and the desktop was called desqview ... and microsoft was still dead last oh ... and is lisp ever popular these days ... "we can't make a decent ADT in something that has the class keyword, but oh boy, functional is going to solve so many issues."
I am as smart as brick when it comes to understanding the implicit, even the obvious stuff. "The web that never was". And it took me 40 minutes to think "hold on that's not what happened". Everything before that was "oh they actually explored it and tried something else but they came back to the first thing and we're going to know why later".
I would like to know which parts are really true, which, in itself would be a great story! (Nevermind... at the end Beattie tells us which part were true, and how they came to be)
41:06 this behavior is present on the current web it’s called html clobbering or something and it’s a terrible idea that leads to security vulnerabilities so no
In a lot of ways, JavaScript has the same traits of HyperLisp as described here, tragic quirks aside. You can send code as data and data as code. Take some JS source in string format and `eval` it and hey presto, you've restarted the passed continuation. Of course, the JSON format exists precisely because that would be a terribly insecure thing to do. JSON is a very limited subset of JavaScript to allow only data and not code to be passed when only data is expected. There would probably be an equivalent HLON (pronounced Halon? Network nerds would love it) as a restricted class of S-expressions in HyperLisp. Also, Scheme probably would have been the ideal dialect to base HyperLisp on. As simple, pared down, and easy to implement in a Grid browser as possible
In a Scheme world, HLON would probably just be nornal sexps but quoted (i.e. unevaluated). A few corporate additions later should land us in Clojure literal syntax.
I remeber 1976 a guy from my hometown had a problem : His daughter was stalked via phonecalls and i builded a device that can "read" incoming calls .... The cops catched the stalker. If you watch your phone now and could read the number of the incoming call ..... that was me. Greets from Germany. I forgot to mention that he was the boss of IBM Germany .... lol
did I hear you correctly and you suggested that LSD was invented at UC Berkley? It was not: "LSD, which stands for lysergic acid diethylamide, was first synthesized in 1938 by Swiss chemist Albert Hofmann."
@JustSomeRandomness I'm glad someone else noticed it too. I've been seeing a lot of reposts from older comments here lately and was starting to wonder whether it was a bug on... Perhaps UA-cam side? Or if bots were just reposting popular comments for some reason edit: Yup, upon further inspection I realized this dude probably is a bot. But why tho?
I like the way that this actually takes a look at real life pivotal historic decisions and actually tries to piece together what would have happened if things had gone differently, rather than just coming up with random nonsense.
It was clear we live in the stupidest, boringest timeline, but thank you for making the point elaboratively and entertainingly.
You only say that because you are used to it. People from Dylan's timeline could find our timeline more exciting.
And don't even get me started on the timeline where the internet was first invented by the Soviets...
@@Posiman I think they would hate js just as much as us
@@MatheusAugustoGames i like how you cant tell if the other timeline or the soviets would hate js.
@@maciejglinski6564 Both. Both is good
@@MatheusAugustoGames OurScript
watching this guy's hour long presentations back to back, a great storyteller!
Same! While I'm writing Arduino code.
We are not alone!
Same! While I'm copying Calculus 2 notes
Okay but actually that alternate HTML with ~{} instead of looks so nice to work with
Yeah that syntax looks very nice to me. Maybe it's because I'm used to curly braces programming languages or maybe it's because the link reminds me of markdown.
And Lisp instead of JavaScript!
I agree. And it reminds me of CS, or C if we count the use of ().
Also, it's much more succinct. With HTML you have to write each tag twice for no reason.
While I agree, tilde is so painful to use on so many keyboards, I'd rather not. But honestly the same goes for backspace and other special characters, because they are based on US keyboard layouts.
25:18 that HTML 0.2 syntax looks absolutely incredible. I'm actually tempted to write an interpreter for that.
Please do!
I think we should all rebuild the internet but better because this sucks right now
@@rhysbaker2595 It's easy to design and make it better, but the problem is you will never get the world to switch.
@@jbird4478 It's easy to make a new country with more freedom but you'll never fix all the older ones. But do you have to _go_ to the older ones?
@@rhysbaker2595 ditch javascript while we're at it
"John Romero, who's quite good at level design and having great hair..." This may be the single truest description of Romero I've ever heard.
He's also an excellent programmer, he just never gets the recognition because Carmack is operating from a different dimension. But Romero is better than me, my colleagues, and anyone I've ever met.
That song was terrific.
For those who are unaware, it's a parody of "Everybody's Free To Wear Sunscreen," by Baz Luhrmann.
This is the best fairytale of Computer history. Loved it
4:00 “Code in VB once, but stop before it makes you stupid.”
Me: *Glancing over at my boss who refuses to allow us to switch from VB to C#...
God... that's not far to go is it...
Have you got a new job yet @D Ross?
The number of timelines wherein Javascript exists is probably similar to the number of alternate universes where the platypus is a thing.
18:11 almost reminds me of ao3 (non-profit fanfiction site aka archive or our own), where tags on a piece of writing are added by the author and then sorted by volunteers, who make synonymous tags redirect to the preferred one, and create parent tags, allowing users to apply a dizen filters and find exactly what they want to read. Very different vibe to algorithmic search engines
OMG...it took me like 52 of those 61 minutes to realize this is a "What If?" presentation 😅
This might be the single best tech talk I have ever seen. So captivating and exciting especially since these things very well could have happened. And omg, that alternate version of HTML, I'll never be able to look at a closing tag again without puking, and Lisp instead of Js, and Java never taking off...
Consider how much less of a horror XML would've been if HTML hadn't abused so.
I'm such a nerd I literally got a full-body chill at 43:06 when _that_ logo appeared.
Every once in a while I come back to this talk, and every time I rewatch this I just feel sad with the sack of mud we got instead. :(
I for one, fell in love with those brand new NEXT PALM handheld PCs, small size, robust body, long battery life and powerful computing abilities with classic GRID browser. What else can I need?
Lucky. I got saddled with a Be Banana Phone by my work. uuuughh
We need a sequel to this fantasy
Really well researched.
The two Johns had me laughing.
Great SciFi novel from an alternative universe in our multiverse.
32:43 I do not see a single universe, no matter what else happens, where *Nintendo* is doing early online gaming.
If I understand Darvin's theory, there is no best solution promoted.
What has the highest number of descendants is a mutation that best suits the niche.
The University of Southern California didn't invent LSD, they were only the admin users of LSD.
In the alternative universe, they did.
This, ladies, gentlemen and embies, is how you deliver a talk!
this guy is poisnous i cant stpo watching his videos and am on a deadline
intro is awesome
Incorrectly defines natural selection then proceeds to give a perfect analogy of how evolution works. Great talk.
Watching this on this google powered device on software for a Google owned website really puts this million dollar deal that never was into perspective.
I literally applauded the opening sunscreen parody song at the beginning. That was brilliant.
I love that mainframe picture at 10:00 ... it's like "One mainframe isn't enough for us, we need at least two!"
I love this spec-fic universe you've built!
I'm a Mac/Linux guy today, but would I have been a BeOS guy? A NEXT guy? Or would I have gotten in with CP/M and MP/M? Would Linux have been a project or would other OSes have taken over before there was such a need for a free UNIX-like OS?
I'm sure with the multi-media chops Be would've brought to Apple, they'd've come up with something iPod-like, but I wonder how integrated multi-media would be in the GRID?
Love the intro. Great respect to the best video advice ever created. 👏
This made me chuckle. Thank you so much
I literally cheered when BeOS made an appearance.
Has anyone got around to make that alternate universe happen yet? Just a good Grid Browser with non-sucky html code for starter...?
And trash javascript ? Let's make a joint venture.
This talk reminded me of Alan Kay who said as much about the sad state of the web. From an interview in FastFortune (www.fastcompany.com/40435064/what-alan-kay-thinks-about-the-iphone-and-technology-now)
"But then, what you’ve got is a gazillion people exploiting all this technology that was invented in the ARPA/PARC community, and most of them are not even curious. You have Tim Berners-Lee, [the inventor of the World Wide Web] who was a physicist, who knew he would be thrown out of physics if he didn’t know what Newton did. He didn’t check to find out that there was a [Douglas] Engelbart [the engineer who had done pioneering work on hypertext and invented the computer mouse].
@@florint.4620 awesome interview, thanks for the link!
all other talks by this guy were really inspiring, but I find this one quite depressing
Being around in those times, I actually found it fascinating. So close.
Screw it, I'm quitting software development, enroll in physics and work my ass off inventing Sliders technology just to find and move to that dimension!
Oh man we should be exploring the galaxy by now. This left me so depressed lol. Such a nostalgia for something that didn't even exist
Great presentation, thank you!
What beautiful truelies you weave!
Interesting side note to this, during the time IBM started selling home pc's they leased ms-dos from microsoft and could sell it with their pcs. The fact that they didn't do a deal to make it ibm exclusive meant that MS could sell the OS to anyone. Now couple this fact with both Compaq and Phoenix legally backwards engineering the proprietary ibm pc bios, and ibm using off the shelf parts to build pcs meant that any company could create pc clones. Compaq did just that selling massive amounts and Phoenix just sold bios chips and got rich too. This combination of missteps by ibm, and others like sticking with 286 when 386 became available, and barking up the dead os/2 tree (also developed by MS for IBM) for too long when windows showed up, meant that ibm was basically crushed in the home pc market. They could have cornered that market and I shudder to think how pc history would have suffered if that happened. Luckily for all of us they screwed up and thought they were untouchable.
I recall being in the first semesters of College when all this WWW stuff started.- using Mosaic . (and using NeXT cubes btw... fantastic machines)
... and I btw. still have a BeBox, running BeOS (NetPositive is unfortunately not a Grid-browser ... it's a web-browser)
I have to say, though ... looking back on BeOS from a technical perspective. As much as it was an fantastic OS, basing the API on 1996-style C++ might not have been a good idea in the long run.
Is it ironic that mockapetris.com is not owned by the creator of DNS?
Incredible - the edge of technology and philosophy intertwined and , hence, grown
such beautiful computing history. wow thankyou good king sir
Brilliant talk
He keeps you in suspense.
MY critiques @ 14:50. Maintain patience, adopt the character, keep attention on you.
Really great use of multimedia! ;)
Great speech :D Btw hey I use Opera and I actually really like the functionality of it :D
53:00 he straight up predicted Carmack joining Oculus and working on the metaverse
What do you mean predicted? Carmack joined Oculus in 2013, and this talk was given in 2018.
I happen to be watching this on May the 5th 2022. Very good talk!
58:04 just hearing the alternate version of that story i was thinking "and then they reply with a C&D letter" because that's what Nintendo always does
Worth bumping this with a comment.
Audio levels are low
What a fascinating talk and it must have taken a ton of time for all the research so the whatifs had some basis in reality.
It actually took me some time to get what he was talking about since there were quite a few familiar people and software in there but eventually I got it. :p
I missed the part where Linus Torvalds developed a new OS kernel - the "Linux micro kernel" ;-)
god that html looks good.
50:54 I think 5GB flash memory was very unrealistic in 1999.
he probably meant hard drive not flash memory
@@leap123_that wouldn't be remarkable at all in 1999, as even 2.5" hard disks reached 5 GB already in 1997 or 1998. But on the other hand, 64MB of RAM also wasn't really remarkable in 1999.
Is there a transcript?
CP/M does not mean Control Program for Micro-computers !!!
it means:
Control Program / Monitor
It was named similarly to Kildall's own PL/M (Programming Language for Microcomputers).
Lovely intro in the style (cameo?) of The Big Kahuna final monologue, kudos.
That was great.
Never liked html and xml in general due to the end tag nonsense. In some way I think the original proposal would have been easier to work with. Back in the early 2000's I was working on a project at NERA TMN (later part of Protek) where we needed some configuration data and everywhere I looked they suggested using xml. So instead of using anything off the shelf I just made my own and named it GenData (Generic Data), a simple system using curly braces for scope, properties colon value, and angle brackets for arrays to look like any other programming language. It was used everywhere in the project but never published online in any form. Now years later when I am working in a different company, we also needed the same thing and I searched online a bit and there is JSON, the spec is practically identical to my old GenData. Obviously its so simple that anyone could have made it and indeed that is why its so brilliant (enhanced by the JSON5 spec/library with what should have been part of it since the beginning).
One question remains: what came first? Unix or LSD?
Acid was first synthesized between the world wars and its effect documented in the early 1940s, in Switzerland. So it predates unix by a few decades.
Oh I wanna live in that world. Braced grid structure with embedded lisp... mmm
The idea that wins is usually the worst.
You can detect the long arm of IBM in HTML; but then, they'd been using GML since 1969
might have been interesting if you actually got the names of the companies right
somewhere found in some text files discovered during the archeology project called FreeDOS, this actually happened ... except ... the company was novel ... the year was 1994 ... and the desktop was called desqview
... and microsoft was still dead last
oh ... and is lisp ever popular these days ... "we can't make a decent ADT in something that has the class keyword, but oh boy, functional is going to solve so many issues."
INSERT INTO INTRO
VALUES ('And Do not go Gentle into that Goodnight');
good to know all these details
You realise basically none of this actually happened, right?
@@flameski_ Except the bits noted as having happened
I am as smart as brick when it comes to understanding the implicit, even the obvious stuff. "The web that never was". And it took me 40 minutes to think "hold on that's not what happened". Everything before that was "oh they actually explored it and tried something else but they came back to the first thing and we're going to know why later".
Yes, but html forms should not be hierarchical structures
I would like to know which parts are really true, which, in itself would be a great story!
(Nevermind... at the end Beattie tells us which part were true, and how they came to be)
Genius.
*folds his hands and prays during the intro* jk thx for this
I am not hearing any volume on this... anyone else have this have this issue?
Volume is not something you hear. Volume is just a definition for the loudness of sound.
So no, nobody is hearing volume.
I do have sound though.
@@itskittyme cringe
@@hristokozhuharov558 you like that huh
41:06 this behavior is present on the current web it’s called html clobbering or something and it’s a terrible idea that leads to security vulnerabilities so no
"it’s called html clobbering or something" That's not what HTML clobbering is.
In a lot of ways, JavaScript has the same traits of HyperLisp as described here, tragic quirks aside. You can send code as data and data as code. Take some JS source in string format and `eval` it and hey presto, you've restarted the passed continuation.
Of course, the JSON format exists precisely because that would be a terribly insecure thing to do. JSON is a very limited subset of JavaScript to allow only data and not code to be passed when only data is expected. There would probably be an equivalent HLON (pronounced Halon? Network nerds would love it) as a restricted class of S-expressions in HyperLisp.
Also, Scheme probably would have been the ideal dialect to base HyperLisp on. As simple, pared down, and easy to implement in a Grid browser as possible
In a Scheme world, HLON would probably just be nornal sexps but quoted (i.e. unevaluated). A few corporate additions later should land us in Clojure literal syntax.
I beg your pardon?
Does anyone else get audio? The entire video is muted from my end.
nice
I remeber 1976 a guy from my hometown had a problem :
His daughter was stalked via phonecalls and i builded a device that can "read" incoming calls ....
The cops catched the stalker.
If you watch your phone now and could read the number of the incoming call ..... that was me.
Greets from Germany.
I forgot to mention that he was the boss of IBM Germany .... lol
wow
April Fools?
urbit.
comment if you understand.
i mean it's a great story but i hated every part of it.
did I hear you correctly and you suggested that LSD was invented at UC Berkley? It was not: "LSD, which stands for lysergic acid diethylamide, was first synthesized in 1938 by Swiss chemist Albert Hofmann."
Starts at 5:16
So basically evolution as opposed to intelligent design also determined our technological present.
Actually it's government money that does. People have no idea how much that is involved in all these.
Gay-Related Interlinked Documents
Advanced Interlinked Document System
bro you tricked meeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
I was with this until Lisp.
I glad Lisp get the place it deserves: in the garbage bin
The selfish thrill philosophically land because bass cephalometrically soak absent a various nut. fearful fearless, mushy vision
请重启以应用您的费用
The slippery airplane conceivably water because adjustment comparatively confess alongside a ruthless woolen. best, spiky plastic
That song was terrific.
For those who are unaware, it's a parody of "Everybody's Free To Wear Sunscreen," by Baz Luhrmann.
@JustSomeRandomness I'm glad someone else noticed it too. I've been seeing a lot of reposts from older comments here lately and was starting to wonder whether it was a bug on... Perhaps UA-cam side? Or if bots were just reposting popular comments for some reason
edit: Yup, upon further inspection I realized this dude probably is a bot. But why tho?