My background is in the recording studio as an audio technical engineer. Active speakers are mainly employed in pro audio, not in the audiophile realm. While some of the active speakers made are good, they all have their own sonic attributes. Some of the larger active systems also have their own separate power amps and crossovers are mounted in separate racks... and when finally set up, they truly sound amazing!! I would LOVE to hear a PS Audio system and one day will probably make the drive from Phoenix, Arizona to Boulder, Colorado so I can stop in and say hi, then listen. Don't worry, Paul... I'll bring a change of clothes so that when I soil myself as I listen to the amazing clarity of a PS Audio system that I can take care of things and be in good shape. For the most part, powered monitors in the studio are for people who don't want to pack around a bunch of other stuff (power amps, cables, etc.), but some of the high end systems are without peer... at least so far as my ears know today!
I use ATC Active speakers and since having them have never wanted to go back to separate amplification. The active versions were better in every respect compared to the passives imo. Trying different pre amps gives the flexibility of tuning the sound to suit your tastes.
ATC are certainly nice but in my experience didn't match up to my favourite passive speakers (say something like the Kef Reference 5) for stereo imagining and roundedness - On the other hand some Meridians I've heard were pretty amazing.
I have SCM11 passive ATC's and have been considering upgrading to SCM40A's. No doubt this will sound much better, but I was held back because they don't have high level outputs for my subwoofer. This would mean using the line level from a preamp that has dedicated sub out. Also, I use them as my front HT speakers, so the preamp would need HT passthrough as well. All in all this reduces my options for a preamp quite a bit, and I decided against upgrading. If only they had high level outputs! I even asked ATC if they could build me a pair but they didn't bite.
@@StephenBrennanGuitar ATC SCM100 actives is what we went with. I don't remember specifics on the setup, DAC was definitely PS Audio and I believe the amps were as well. Listened to a variety of HD music via Roon. I felt like the room we were demoing in was too small or not treated enough for the KEFs as the low end just felt loose and boomy. ATCs are definitely lighter in the low register but the tight response and clarity make up for it.
After 50 years of chopping and changing various combinations of amps , pre-amps , cables ,mains conditioners . I heard some ATC active 100 towers and thought i had reached my end game with a Meridian 808v3 as source and control unit combined .they didn`t quite hit the spot , then i heard the flagship Meridian dsp 8000 speaker ,i bought a used pair in 2012 and have now upgraded to se spec with upgraded amps , Dacs and the wonderful Seas Berilium tweeter , now i am completly happy .
Active is the wave of the future for sure -- an accomplished professional design team is always going to achieve superior system "synergy" than the efforts of a tinkering, trial & error amateur audio hobbyist can be expected to manage. I still use passive speakers for the ambience/surround role, but the heart of my system -- the main L+R speakers and the sub -- is active and the result is better than anything else I've used in my 50+ years of dedication to quality music reproduction. From the
Absolutely right, Paul. People like to be able to try different combinations of equipment, which puts active speakers on a no-no list. Another advantage of passive speakers is that if the amplifier takes a sh*t it can be quickly swapped for one that works. You might call that the "party saver" aspect.
Nice room!! That turntable looks very interesting and that tone arm looks a mile long, along with that super massive and thick platter. Hope to see the room and components set up and putting big smiles on faces of staff and visitors to come. Peace
Like I said yesterday, my wife loves the Klipsch 5s. She likes the sound, the smaller size and ease of use. One day I may have to give in as we seem to be constantly downsizing over the last few years. Doing it again come January, moving to a smaller place
If you buy an active speaker, the amplifier inside already has synergy with transducers. If you ain’t fussy, job is done. So you need to audition an active speakers just like anything else. I don’t have one but once Paul makes it, before I kick the bucket, I would love to buy it. I like PS audio’s class D amplification.
Synergy assumes the engineers carefully matched the drivers’ parameters, and the turnover points and filter slopes of the crossover network, which is not necessarily guaranteed.
"PS audio’s class D amplification" is based on off-the-shelf OEM modules from ICEPower -- they package that technology very nicely and add their own "Analog Cell" Class A front end, but the performance of their Sprout and Steller amps is defined by those modules.
@@editorjuno FWIW, I’m running a combination of two different types of Class D amps in my small 7.1 HT rig, along with the on-board amps in Onkyo surround receiver. Two channels of early vintage Hypex UCD180 for dual mono subs, and 3 channels if ICEpower A200 on the front row L/C/R. During the very brief period when I compared those two running full bandwidth stereo, I much preferred the ICE. By all accounts, Bruno’s more recent work surpass his Hypex by a considerable margin, but I’ve run out of time, budget and motivation to try to snatch that brass ring, and have given up my seat on the FOMO carousel to the younger generations.
@@faludabutt8253 -- Yup. Any decent amp based on the same ICEpower modules will perform pretty much the same, and one built around Hypex or Purifi modules will be better. Other than nice appearance and good assembly craftsmanship, there's nothing the least bit special about "PS audio’s class D amplification" -- their offering comprises OEM module-based products to which PS Audio has added no significant value AFAICT. Of course if you really like Paul -- I do too -- there's that! :-)
Big fan of active when done right. I ran some triamp systems years ago, headroom like crazy, but still used some passive filters to deal with problems, pre digital
I've been using active speakers since the 80s, mostly British bookshelf type, sometimes with a pair of subs, always found them to sound excellent when set up right and used with quality ancillary equipment
Loved this post. I started down the active track 22 years ago and haven’t looked back. Before that I was swapping out components every 6 months. Then, I went active, and it stopped. Kind of. Today I own two active systems. The Linn 350 Klimax, and the Linn 530’s. Occasionally I want to sell the 530’s and get a system with more coloration (McIntosh plus Sonus faber, or klipsch plus ?, or something tubey?). I do wish my second system wasn’t a little brother to the big rig. But when I listen to the 350’s, all seems right with the world…
KEF LS50 Wireless II, active. All day, every day. Don’t care if I’m now not regarded as audiophile etc. Great streamer, great amp, great speakers, great looks, great sound. It’s about enjoying the sound and that’s what they offer.
It's nice you're addressing the room (by far the single most important component). Hopefully you go all the way and execute it correctly... (as you approach your manufactured components). I never understood the casual, off the dome approach that's been pursued in each room thus far. The ceiling panels I see aren't the best start, but I'll reserve judgment until it's complete and I see the entire picture.
1st timer commenting: excellent question & great answer. I have some pretty strong feelings about active speaker use as my son & I both use them extremely successfully for well over a decade. I've been a big audio buff since 1974 when I went all-in on a quad setup deluxe. Cleaner, clearer, more powerful, never a heat problem or ANY problem otherwise for 17 YEARS of abuse, we use them hard. Buy the right ones right up front because unless you're a complete fool, you'll be holding on to these for decades.
And if you’re lucky, it’ll only take a couple of decades to find that right match; hopefully before tinnitus and age related HF hearing loss makes the pursuit of audio nirvana moot. 😉
with active Xovers you also gain the benefit of eliminating coils and caps which are energy storage devices and hence influence transient behaviour negatively
I have both. I also have powerful class D amps that are a fraction of the size, weight and heat output of my legacy equipment. I can manage to pretty much emulate any type listening experience with my active speakers. It's always been mostly about the speakers anyway, IME, at least.
I agree with Paul with your assessment when you get older you want it simple and convenient. During my 55 years of HiFi journey, I had all the stuff you can imagine racks that hold 6 pieces of equipment, etc. It was fun to play around with it. The newly designed active speakers have DACs in them and some with streamers meaning you just have to plug them in use the application from your HP and go. I have only one Integrated Amplifier (all in one )including streaming, Dac, etc, and speakers it's enough and the cable salad is reduced. For my desktop system, I use an active speaker to save space, and easy to set up. "Absolute Sound" is a mirage and in the end, it is a personal opinion& perception. My focus is on Music first and equipment second! It is true in Germany Active speakers are popular and some Companies doing that for a long time and fine-tuning it.
It would make sense to design actives to have the option of outboard amplification, just on the interim. The future is active, mark my words on that one.
Perhaps an active cabinet with a x-oxer dsp module that can be pulled out on a slide in design.same for power amp and do on.you can have that one paul for free
Another good thing about the active speakers is you don't have to spend $$$$ for premium cables. The $2 cable inside the speaker connected to the amp sounds as good or better than the premium cable.
Unless you’re talking about any of the newer “wireless” active systems ( i.e. connected via Bluetooth, AirPlay or any of several proprietary systems), you’re still gonna need an interconnect from your source / preamp / processor to the speakers. To meet “minimum acceptable audiophile” standards, those can certainly get just as spendy as exotic speaker cables - particularly at longer lengths - and I think it’s fair to say there will be legions of golden ears who can guarantee their ability to hear the differences with their eyes shut. Of course many of the “pro grade” actives that will be listed herein will include balanced inputs, which definitely fare better than single ended cabling over longer distances, and can often be much lower in cost than “SOTA wonder cables” .
@@philiptong4978 Actually, four twisted pairs in very specific configurations, and not exactly comparable; but you knew that. That said, there are more than a few crazy DIYers who love to humble brag about using cheap CAT5 cabling to fabricate their own speaker and interconnect cabling.
This year I replaced my home studio monitoring setup that I had been using for fifteen years. I was using a pair of Event 20/20 passive speakers driven by a Hafler P1500 power amp (75Wx2) and also a 250W powered 15" sub to create a 2.1 system. I replaced that setup with Adam Audio A7X's as satellites to an Adam Sub10. The A7X's are internally bi-amped and the Sub10 is also a powered speaker. Admittedly, the new monitoring system cost several times more than the old but I still wasn't certain I would hear any significant improvement due to the law of diminishing returns. I was pleasantly surprised to find a vast improvement in accuracy, resolution and imaging. Nonetheless, for my home AV systems and home theater I am sticking with passive speakers driven by an AV receiver. Particularly in the theater it would be much too complicated, not to mention expensive, to have all 9 speakers powered. The two subs are powered. If I were ever to want a residential standalone stereo system for music listening only I might very well go with a system using powered speakers.
I wasn't looking for an active speakers initially as i believe it will not be audiophile sound quality. Till i've listened to a pair of Focal Trio 11be, I pulled the trigger! Ain't an audiophile , i still have my dac, pre-amp,power cable,xlr cable to play with. And finding suitable spk stand to fill up with my existing atabites, isoacoustic Gaia1, not going to waste.
I love to get my hands on as many speakers and amplifiers as I can, because I know they all produce different sound, and have their own personalities, eight years ago I got a pair of active definitive technology BP7000sc and through the years I have also acquired B&W, vandersteen, klipsch forte iii, cornwal, sonus faber, focal, mirage,……….I passed them on and I always return to my active towers, if I ever find something better I will sell them, however, 8 years have gone by and I don’t think I will part with them.
How are those panels bass traps? They look about 3 inches in the video which aren't thick enough to absorb any low frequencies. Unless they're not done in which case please correct me.
I've been using Actives for over a decade and have zero interest in Passives, would be very interested in buying a PS Audio active speaker if you were to make one.
I have a set of active speakers - Elac Navis ARB-51 (designed by Andrew Jones) and they sound heavenly. Also, because they're active and not powered, the sound changes depending on the source components (dac, streamer, etc.), meaning you can still tweak active speakers' sound and upgrade the hardware, just not as much as you would with passive speakers. This kind of minimal approach makes me very happy because I don't want to spend years switching components, hoping to find that perfect sound. I'd rather listen to music!
@@playbackvintagehifihunter9669 Behringer B3030A, two amps inside with an active crossover. 6,75" woofer, ribbon tweeter. I leave power on 24/7 and drive them with small mixer. Most of the time using a laptop and smart TV as source.
They are exceptional. I had the 8040As. Super clear and detailed. Some people dislike Genelecs because they are too clear. Their job is to separate everything for mixing. You actually lose the impression of "layers" in the music, which is the goal of their design. So in a way they are too good.
I am kind of new to the audiophile scene, but wanted to know how to output to stereo or studio monitors and to headphones; and switching between the two. I have researched that I shouldn't connect speakers to headphone amps, nor vice versa. So what hardware do I need to listen on headphones and speakers respectively? Thank you very much for y'all time!
Depends on your source (what you're feeding into the amplifier). Let's say it was from a preamp or maybe a mixing board. That source should then feed a receiver with both a headphone output and a speaker output. Or, if it's not what you want, you can purchase a separate headphone amplifier and speaker amplifier and then feed them both with the same input. The trick is to feed from a line output like that from a preamp.
@@Paulmcgowanpsaudio I was thinking of a audio interface, but which preamp would you recommend? I have a pretty big budget, but dont want to go all out yet. Maybe ones that can power headphones such as Audeze LCD-X and Beyerdynamics 1990 Pro and maybe better ones down the line like the Ayra or LCD-5s at some point.
Many active speakers are fantastic. But as Paul said, you do not get to pick your amplifier, because it is built-in to the speaker. But if you play the speakers, and they sound great, then you are good to go -- as long as you understand that there will be no amp upgrade in your future. And comparisons to passive speakers must be made on a case-by-case basis. There are countless great sounding passive speakers, and there are countless poor sounding speakers. So if you have a great pair of "active" speakers, it will blow away most "passive" speakers, except for the best ones. In the early 1990's, I purchased a pair of AR Powered Partner active speakers for my computer (it was a Gateway 2000, with a 66 mHz DX/2 CPU, 8 MB of RAM, 1 MB of video memory, and a 340 MB hard drive). Back then, the computers that had speakers had lousy sound. When I heard the AR active speakers, they blew anything and everything that came with a computer in those days. They still sound good today. But I know that there are far better active speakers today. But for general computer work, these AR speakers are very good. I am pretty sure that the Genelec active speakers, that Kevin in Hong Kong wrote in about, would blow my AR speakers away. But those Genelec's are for serious music listening, and will probably best nearly all passive speakers in their price range. Cheers!
As a decades-long owner of actives, are most ‘Do-it-yourself’ home stereo buffs able match amps and transducers better than say a manufacturer like ATC in England? Doubtful. But I do understand most hi fi buffs want the ability to ‘tweak’ their systems in perhaps a constant mode of buy and sell. Their hi fi dealers need that activity too.
Hello; active speakers are equipped with high power amplifiers in woofer line (usually several hundred W). So how to explain, that a 50W integrated amp can properly drive woofer in passive speaker?
I’ve enjoyed my active Meridians and ATC’s for years… Well, decades.. cheers! And to ‘stir the pot’, Octave Records use ATC SCM 50’s on their mixing desk. 👊🏻
Dear Paul, I do hope that you'll get around to design truly high end active speakers. Being in the market for speakers, preferrable active ones, right now, I might buy them 5-10 years down the line. I listened to many speakers in many stores over the last year and I usually find active speakers to sound much more colorful than passive ones. I also like not having to worry about finding the matching amp. I do believe that the speaker designer should take care of that. Unfortunately, none of the active designs so far could match the imaging qualities of the Zellaton Plural Evo.
Hi Paul here's Chris from Germany ✌️appreciate your video 👌do you ever hear the Fischer Audio Pegasus full active Speaker development with the great Walter Fuchs from SAC-Audio!? For me personal best speaker ever purely natural 😊 greetings from Chris and stay to be a great Person and Audio Designer.....
Active speakers are superior especially if you can tune the dsp to your liking exact frequency response at your listening position no phase issues introduced by 24db LR xo other than passive being simpler I see no benefit for an audiophile Even the mixer boards at venues have an eq built in...
CRAP... Paul, now i have to wait again. i understand you are running a business, but we want PS Audio's masterpiece speaker from Paul which should be active with a DAC. That room looks just awesome. thx Paul ;-))
I'm old enough to remember Philips inventing "The motional feedback" speaker, back in the 70s. I wasn't impressed then, and I've heard nothing since to make me change my mind. Call me a dinosaur, but for me it's a good amp, and decent pair of passives any time.
EEEW more split system A/c you need to do the video on why they are not ideal in a listening room. I mean for those who are crazy over the top and don’t mind dropping 1mill + on a setup anyway all good keep ‘em coming P-man!
The other problem with active is vibration. I wouldn’t want my amp inside my speaker, where it will be subject to the vibration that’s inevitably inside the cabinet.
I’d say the majority of recording studios use active speakers today, where reliability is obviously a massive concern. They’ve only been gaining popularity since the 90s when Genelec’s became pretty common. If properly designed, vibration is not an issue. In fact, I once accidentally knocked a Genelec 1031 off a stand back when I was an assistant engineer. Me and the producer I worked for tested it and couldn’t find any issues. He then mixed a Grammy winning album on them like a month later.
As long as the speakers and amps are designed to be complimentary it doesn't matter if the amps are in the speaker enclosures or external (with manufacturer tested and recommended speaker cables). For an individual to select passive speakers and amplifiers separately, possibly from different manufacturers, will just be a crap shoot as to the overall sound quality. I've always used separate components, and manufacturers, for my home hi-fi systems (admittedly not high-end but decent mid-market components). Recently, in my home electronic music studio, I replaced good quality passive monitors (Event 20/20's), a powered 15" sub-woofer (JBL driver and 250W RMS Dayton Audio plate amp) and a discrete stereo amp (Hafler P1500) with a 2.1 system from Adam Audio consisting of an Adam Sub10 (powered) and dual Adam A7X's (bi-amped). The monitors are fed directly from the analog output of a tc electronic Finalizer Express D/A which, in turn, receives the digital audio via a RME Fireface 802 digital audio interface from the DAW. I was blown away by the improvement in sound quality. This is the best sounding audio system I've ever heard. For years I've rarely just sat and listened to music as a primary activity. Since installing the Adam Audio equipment I've spend hours listening to my collection, usually FLAC files ripped from CD's. The power and accuracy of the bass frequencies is astonishing and the imaging and field depth of the A7X's is impressive. Such a system illustrates the advantage of using an integrated system from a single vendor. This is, of course a near-field system, usable by a single person sitting about four feet away from the speakers in the sweet spot.
One of the things I've learned is that with hifi. You don't know what your missing till you hear it. I've had setups I though were good then got new speakers that made my old speakers sound awful. Amps can be so small these days that space shouldn't be a big issue. That being said . An set of active stereo speakers is better than one of those little bluetooth boxes that normies love to use.
Thats true, active speakers has that limitation of just sounding 1 way. You cant do tubes if your kinda burnt out of solid state. You cant put a warmer amplifier or a analytical amp depending on your mood. Having 2 or more different sounding amp in my opinion is good at keeping you interested in audio.
I kinda agree ... actives DO have a lot going for them ..... or if you can't buy actives to your tastes or requirements then maybe place the amp right next to the speaker and have the SHORTEST cable possible
Is it because active speakers are typically "pro audio", and therefore they aren't pretty enough? I don't believe that sound has anything to do with it, which may be the first step to cracking the mold. (All my speakers are active, and I won't go back to passive. I no longer have a separate amp, and for the cost of a good amp alone I can buy another crazy good set of monitors, or maybe 2 reference subs to go with my existing monitors. I may never buy another passive speaker!)
Not all active speakers have class D amps. I recenlty bought a set of Audio Energy AE1 for a my second system and these have class A/B amps in them. Sounds fantastic btw.
Correct, the writer made an incorrect assumption that actves are just ‘class D’. My active ATC’s are Class A up to a certain threshold, then go A/B I believe.
i went active a decade ago and never looked back, the wireless tech, class d, dirac and dsp is the future, convenience is king with the next generation audiophile.
A set of price-point PS audio, active, hifi home audio speakers would be an incredible bang for the buck, and with the right marketing would sell like hot cakes.
Here's a non-audiophile question; you always mentioned giving the speakers some distance from the wall, and you from the speakers. But how about desktop setup? Specifically for gaming, How to best position the speaker to get the most out of the soundstage? Since presumably most casual users put their speakers on top of their desk, besides their monitor, which doesn't give much distance between the speakers and the person (or even the left speaker and the right one). Let's just assume that the person doesn't have enough space on the floor and only have their desk to put the speakers on. Should the speakers be angled inward towards the person? Outward towards the surrounding? Or just straight front facing?
For height, speakers should be sitting so your ears are halfway between the tweeter and woofer. In my experience, there are two camps from my when it comes to toe-in, but they both agree on one thing. Make an equilateral triangle using the two speakers and your listening position. The disagreement comes as to whether your head should be at the point of that triangle, or ~30cm INSIDE the triangle. Personally, I belong to camp Inside.
Active speakers has been pn the market for decades, but they have never got me excited. There are so many ways to build good class D amps today, so maybe I should let go of my bias to try out those Genalec speakers in my desktop setup? That said, I go to great lengths to isolate amps and speakers, and putting an amp into a speaker shaking with soundwaves just seem counterintuitive... Sitting on the fence... not sure where I’d go.
The only thing to do is go and have a listen. Active speakers are also being used at the very high end. I currently use a pair of 3-way fully active Legacy Audio Aeris speakers (with 4 internal class-D amps modules per speaker). The Legacy Audio Wavelet preamp is digital, where the active cross-over, room-correction, and tone controls all happen in the digital domain, so no issues with phase alignment between drivers. These are highly immersive speakers and make pretty much all my LPs sound great. I use them at least 6 hours a day, with most of it being with Netflix video. ie. Not fatiguing. The Legacy Audio Valor speakers are also fully active speakers at the price of $86,000 (includes pre-amp and all amplification). When I was listening to a track by Sting, the music felt like mist surrounding the singer. I have never experienced anything like this before. Pre-conceptions can often get in the way of experiencing what is possible.
@@matthewbarrow3727 if the Aeris accepts analogue then I suppose the signal path involve an ADC stage before the DSP, then (a DAC here?) amplification for the speaker drivers Or does it work another way?
@@philiptong4978 You are correct. It takes SPDIF or USB directly from a streamer (or laptop) in digital. It does include an ADC convertor to convert analog to digital. It has 4 DACs on the output stage, one for each channel. Even though the signal path is much longer when playing an LP, there is something about the sound which feels great. While I mostly listen to streaming music due to the convenience, I do enjoy playing an LP every now and then to give myself a treat.
@@matthewbarrow3727 thanks for the reply, it makes a lot of sense to feed Aeris from a streamer, as all it needs is digital audio data and an interface to control it
@@johnholmes912 sorry to disagree some of their older lines speaker when active sound quite good, but you need a lot of amplifiers to run them. I expect we fundamentally disagree but there we are I will stop there!
Nice room Paul, I really enjoy your input! Maybe one of these days if I'm every in your area us two older guys can talk gear. Keep sharing your audiophile life with us, great knowledge!
Good active speakers are better than passive ones. many passive use an amplifier and passive crossover. The slightly better ones use an amplifier and a DSP. which is active crossover and EQ. Then you can adjust things much better without being afraid of phase shift and the weaknesses of a passive crossover Many bluetooth speakers use DSP. therefore so good sound in such a small format. Bose has almost always done that but they have their own pre-programmed EQ. box that comes with the speakers. Then they do not have to make such perfect speakers and can adjust away weaknesses.
passive systems are easier to repair and upgrade.... not until recent years i learnt repairing an active system.. you gonna need to meddle with transistors and ic chips... sub-woofers are usually active because the bass frequencies are so hard to tune or cure by a customer.... active usually means factory tuned..
There's a little difference in some, but usually seems to be the result of intentional flavouring, or in the case of tube amps, they way they interact with the speaker load, and some have non linear responses. Once you get to a certain level, a well sorted accurate amp wouldn't sound any different to another well sorted, accurate amp imo
Problem is you need more wall outlets and one for each speaker which is a pain and if your outlets are connected to a wall switch it's a other problem. That's why I don't like active speakers and you have to build a speaker to fit a plate amp or the amp itself so you seem limited to designing the speaker cabinet/box. Other limitation is wattage if the amp does 100 Watts but you have a large room that requires two to 300 watts or you move you can't do nothing about it. That's why you see most active speakers as PC desktop speakers or studio speakers.
While I can see many pro's for active speakers I feel there's a big drawback. Where passive speakers will last for decades, I fear that will not be the case for active speakers. I doubt, you will have much success repairing the speakers when after 10 years they break down. It will be way easier to replace the amp of a passive setup. With the added bonus of improvements in amp technology. And how about the heat of the interal amps in active speakers, how will that effect the life of the speaker?
I believe that active speakers with active crossovers and amplifiers driving directly connected speakers are unquestionably far superior to passive speakers with passive crossovers between the amplifiers and the speakers. Passive speakers with passive crossovers are a compromise that increases simplicity and reduces cost for the consumer but reduces sound quality. DIY passive crossover tweaks are sometimes an improvement but not a solution. Audiophiles fret over their amplifiers but don't give a moments thought to the distortion added by the passive crossover.
@@sudd3660 Amplifier noise is independent of the load. Amplifier noise is not measured with a speaker connected. If you have a problem with amplifier noise, it is not because your speakers are directly connected to your amplifier without a passive crossover. The passive crossover does not prevent noise. A passive crossover would pass any amplifier noise to the speaker.
@@paulsebring6930 i tried hooking up passive speakers and drivers to different types of amps, power amps and integrated amps. also with the plate amp. it indeed was that plate amp. maybe the passive crossover helped a little bit. so the issue i found has little to do with direct to drivers, but the plate amp itself. but then the problem is how they make plate amps. normal hifi power amps or integrated amps i have much better experience with in regards to hiss noise.
For those audiophiles among us that can't rid themselves of preconceived notions, try listening to Erin's Klippel review of these active speakers. It has everything audiophiles love to hate, the JBL badge, a compression driver and is active with DSP, yet it is a phenomenal audiophile speaker. ua-cam.com/video/C5iEgnAfwJQ/v-deo.html
I bought $10 speakers from a Chinese brand years ago. I recently bought a $150 Sony home theater system. WTF the $10 speakers sound way better than the Sony's.
My take on it is. All amps sound slightly different, be it Valve, Solid state class A, Class AB, Class Class D etc etc. A lot of cost goes into the design and parts of these different designs. Active speaker amps, to me at least are much more crude things, not designed to the same standards of performance at all. Their use makes a system a bit inflexible as far as I am concerned.
i agree with you point, and my solution is to use hifi power amps and separate dac's. then dsp box to control it all. it is sad that when we hear the world "active speaker" its a plate amp with everything built in one unit.
@@abbersj2935 i tried looking that speaker up, could not find much information. my point is that you can make it any way you want. as simple as having the complete plate amp in a sepre housing(as i do) or use a minidsp shd studio into a dac and two stereo poweramps, that could drive 2 way speakers. that is the simple solutions i know off. add as much complexity you like from there.
@@sudd3660 It's a 4 way active speaker. Driven by 4 class A amps similar to the ones Pass labs sold as separate units. They did not make many, even though reasonably priced at the time.
there is no sound quality difference between well designed active & good synergy passiv. only more conveniant to go active + built in DSP section and amplification
@@sudd3660 Thank you I'm just new to Hi - Fi / home theater what is difference volume vs. Decibels? I have speaker 86 db I can just crank up my Db up to +12 for low senstitive speakers
@@dandonna852 the 86 number you mentioned, think that is the sensitivity of your speakers, dont think about that, just use the volume control to set your desired listening volume. if sounds distorts or won't go loud enough then think about more powerful amp or change speakers.
DSP + Active speakers will get you any sound characteristics you want within physical limitations. With a passive system, when you swap out components, all you're doing is changing the frequency response...the same frequency response that can be changed with DSP. DSP + Active speakers will save you a lot more money, time, space, and save you from nearly all of the snake oil products.
My background is in the recording studio as an audio technical engineer. Active speakers are mainly employed in pro audio, not in the audiophile realm. While some of the active speakers made are good, they all have their own sonic attributes. Some of the larger active systems also have their own separate power amps and crossovers are mounted in separate racks... and when finally set up, they truly sound amazing!! I would LOVE to hear a PS Audio system and one day will probably make the drive from Phoenix, Arizona to Boulder, Colorado so I can stop in and say hi, then listen. Don't worry, Paul... I'll bring a change of clothes so that when I soil myself as I listen to the amazing clarity of a PS Audio system that I can take care of things and be in good shape. For the most part, powered monitors in the studio are for people who don't want to pack around a bunch of other stuff (power amps, cables, etc.), but some of the high end systems are without peer... at least so far as my ears know today!
Congrats on the room! I could only dream of a dedicated space like that.
If you can dream of such dedicated space then you are actually on the right track. If you can dream it, you can make it.
Only need money
All you need to do is run a successful hifi company 👍
That room looks amazing. Hope to make it out for a tour one day! Love the videos Paul
I use ATC Active speakers and since having them have never wanted to go back to separate amplification. The active versions were better in every respect compared to the passives imo.
Trying different pre amps gives the flexibility of tuning the sound to suit your tastes.
ATC are certainly nice but in my experience didn't match up to my favourite passive speakers (say something like the Kef Reference 5) for stereo imagining and roundedness -
On the other hand some Meridians I've heard were pretty amazing.
My father and I demo’ed a pair of KEF Blade TWOs and we both prefer ATCs over them. Just comes down to personal preference ultimately.
@@sublimedrg which atcs did you over over them
What amp did you use with blade 2s - music source and dac used?
I have SCM11 passive ATC's and have been considering upgrading to SCM40A's. No doubt this will sound much better, but I was held back because they don't have high level outputs for my subwoofer. This would mean using the line level from a preamp that has dedicated sub out. Also, I use them as my front HT speakers, so the preamp would need HT passthrough as well. All in all this reduces my options for a preamp quite a bit, and I decided against upgrading. If only they had high level outputs! I even asked ATC if they could build me a pair but they didn't bite.
@@StephenBrennanGuitar ATC SCM100 actives is what we went with. I don't remember specifics on the setup, DAC was definitely PS Audio and I believe the amps were as well. Listened to a variety of HD music via Roon. I felt like the room we were demoing in was too small or not treated enough for the KEFs as the low end just felt loose and boomy. ATCs are definitely lighter in the low register but the tight response and clarity make up for it.
After 50 years of chopping and changing various combinations of amps , pre-amps , cables ,mains conditioners . I heard some ATC active 100 towers and thought i had reached my end game with a Meridian 808v3 as source and control unit combined .they didn`t quite hit the spot , then i heard the flagship Meridian dsp 8000 speaker ,i bought a used pair in 2012 and have now upgraded to se spec with upgraded amps , Dacs and the wonderful Seas Berilium tweeter , now i am completly happy .
Active is the wave of the future for sure -- an accomplished professional design team is always going to achieve superior system "synergy" than the efforts of a tinkering, trial & error amateur audio hobbyist can be expected to manage. I still use passive speakers for the ambience/surround role, but the heart of my system -- the main L+R speakers and the sub -- is active and the result is better than anything else I've used in my 50+ years of dedication to quality music reproduction. From the
That was a good summary of active versus passive speakers.
Absolutely right, Paul.
People like to be able to try different combinations of equipment, which puts active speakers on a no-no list.
Another advantage of passive speakers is that if the amplifier takes a sh*t it can be quickly swapped for one that works.
You might call that the "party saver" aspect.
Nice room!! That turntable looks very interesting and that tone arm looks a mile long, along with that super massive and thick platter. Hope to see the room and components set up and putting big smiles on faces of staff and visitors to come. Peace
Nice to see you finally getting real about acoustics. Cheers!
Love your videos. You've such a natural way of communicating! Keep on doing what you're doing!
You will still need to pay full price for PS Audio gear.
I’ve been using active ATC’s for the past 6 years,40A’s and now 50 ASLT’s.Loving the actives👍.No going back to passive for me.
Thank you Paul for answering my question !
Something I've wondered myself. Thanks for the insight.
Like I said yesterday, my wife loves the Klipsch 5s. She likes the sound, the smaller size and ease of use. One day I may have to give in as we seem to be constantly downsizing over the last few years. Doing it again come January, moving to a smaller place
Great question. Great answer.
If you buy an active speaker, the amplifier inside already has synergy with transducers. If you ain’t fussy, job is done. So you need to audition an active speakers just like anything else. I don’t have one but once Paul makes it, before I kick the bucket, I would love to buy it. I like PS audio’s class D amplification.
Synergy assumes the engineers carefully matched the drivers’ parameters, and the turnover points and filter slopes of the crossover network, which is not necessarily guaranteed.
"PS audio’s class D amplification" is based on off-the-shelf OEM modules from ICEPower -- they package that technology very nicely and add their own "Analog Cell" Class A front end, but the performance of their Sprout and Steller amps is defined by those modules.
@@editorjuno FWIW, I’m running a combination of two different types of Class D amps in my small 7.1 HT rig, along with the on-board amps in Onkyo surround receiver. Two channels of early vintage Hypex UCD180 for dual mono subs, and 3 channels if ICEpower A200 on the front row L/C/R. During the very brief period when I compared those two running full bandwidth stereo, I much preferred the ICE. By all accounts, Bruno’s more recent work surpass his Hypex by a considerable margin, but I’ve run out of time, budget and motivation to try to snatch that brass ring, and have given up my seat on the FOMO carousel to the younger generations.
Bruce Morgen Oh, shall I send it back 🤔
@@faludabutt8253 -- Yup. Any decent amp based on the same ICEpower modules will perform pretty much the same, and one built around Hypex or Purifi modules will be better. Other than nice appearance and good assembly craftsmanship, there's nothing the least bit special about "PS audio’s class D amplification" -- their offering comprises OEM module-based products to which PS Audio has added no significant value AFAICT.
Of course if you really like Paul -- I do too -- there's that! :-)
Great to hear your speakers are still moving forward. And that after the loss of the Rocky Mountain Audio Show.
Big fan of active when done right. I ran some triamp systems years ago, headroom like crazy, but still used some passive filters to deal with problems, pre digital
I've been using active speakers since the 80s, mostly British bookshelf type, sometimes with a pair of subs, always found them to sound excellent when set up right and used with quality ancillary equipment
Loved this post. I started down the active track 22 years ago and haven’t looked back. Before that I was swapping out components every 6 months. Then, I went active, and it stopped. Kind of. Today I own two active systems. The Linn 350 Klimax, and the Linn 530’s. Occasionally I want to sell the 530’s and get a system with more coloration (McIntosh plus Sonus faber, or klipsch plus ?, or something tubey?). I do wish my second system wasn’t a little brother to the big rig. But when I listen to the 350’s, all seems right with the world…
I wish I could have what you have
Good to see you after a long time i watched a ps audio video…
KEF LS50 Wireless II, active. All day, every day. Don’t care if I’m now not regarded as audiophile etc. Great streamer, great amp, great speakers, great looks, great sound. It’s about enjoying the sound and that’s what they offer.
Love that room and turntable
Yeah , a very nice wear house .
It's nice you're addressing the room (by far the single most important component).
Hopefully you go all the way and execute it correctly... (as you approach your manufactured components).
I never understood the casual, off the dome approach that's been pursued in each room thus far.
The ceiling panels I see aren't the best start, but I'll reserve judgment until it's complete and I see the entire picture.
1st timer commenting: excellent question & great answer. I have some pretty strong feelings about active speaker use as my son & I both use them extremely successfully for well over a decade. I've been a big audio buff since 1974 when I went all-in on a quad setup deluxe. Cleaner, clearer, more powerful, never a heat problem or ANY problem otherwise for 17 YEARS of abuse, we use them hard. Buy the right ones right up front because unless you're a complete fool, you'll be holding on to these for decades.
And if you’re lucky, it’ll only take a couple of decades to find that right match; hopefully before tinnitus and age related HF hearing loss makes the pursuit of audio nirvana moot. 😉
Very nice topic and gorgeous luxury turntable
with active Xovers you also gain the benefit of eliminating coils and caps which are energy storage devices and hence influence transient behaviour negatively
I’m glad your taking my advice on room treatments maybe you are reading my comments 🤔
I do my best to read everyone's comments and very much appreciate the advice sometimes given. We are a community.
I will be patient and wait for the actives, hopefully I can afford them when they arrive.
Like the UA Acoustics panels!! Good stuff with a great price on etsy.
Love mine Dynaudio LYD 7 in my office 👍
I have both. I also have powerful class D amps that are a fraction of the size, weight and heat output of my legacy equipment. I can manage to pretty much emulate any type listening experience with my active speakers. It's always been mostly about the speakers anyway, IME, at least.
I agree with Paul with your assessment when you get older you want it simple and convenient. During my 55 years of HiFi journey, I had all the stuff you can imagine racks that hold 6 pieces of equipment, etc. It was fun to play around with it. The newly designed active speakers have DACs in them and some with streamers meaning you just have to plug them in use the application from your HP and go. I have only one Integrated Amplifier (all in one )including streaming, Dac, etc, and speakers it's enough and the cable salad is reduced. For my desktop system, I use an active speaker to save space, and easy to set up. "Absolute Sound" is a mirage and in the end, it is a personal opinion& perception. My focus is on Music first and equipment second! It is true in Germany Active speakers are popular and some Companies doing that for a long time and fine-tuning it.
Love the ceiling by Vicoustic. 😁
It would make sense to design actives to have the option of outboard amplification, just on the interim. The future is active, mark my words on that one.
Perhaps an active cabinet with a x-oxer dsp module that can be pulled out on a slide in design.same for power amp and do on.you can have that one paul for free
Another good thing about the active speakers is you don't have to spend $$$$ for premium cables. The $2 cable inside the speaker connected to the amp sounds as good or better than the premium cable.
Shorter run
Unless you’re talking about any of the newer “wireless” active systems ( i.e. connected via Bluetooth, AirPlay or any of several proprietary systems), you’re still gonna need an interconnect from your source / preamp / processor to the speakers.
To meet “minimum acceptable audiophile” standards, those can certainly get just as spendy as exotic speaker cables - particularly at longer lengths - and I think it’s fair to say there will be legions of golden ears who can guarantee their ability to hear the differences with their eyes shut.
Of course many of the “pro grade” actives that will be listed herein will include balanced inputs, which definitely fare better than single ended cabling over longer distances, and can often be much lower in cost than “SOTA wonder cables” .
ethernet uses twisted pair balanced cables
@@philiptong4978 Actually, four twisted pairs in very specific configurations, and not exactly comparable; but you knew that. That said, there are more than a few crazy DIYers who love to humble brag about using cheap CAT5 cabling to fabricate their own speaker and interconnect cabling.
That looks like a wonderful record player😬
When do you feel your active loudspeaker will be available?
This year I replaced my home studio monitoring setup that I had been using for fifteen years. I was using a pair of Event 20/20 passive speakers driven by a Hafler P1500 power amp (75Wx2) and also a 250W powered 15" sub to create a 2.1 system. I replaced that setup with Adam Audio A7X's as satellites to an Adam Sub10. The A7X's are internally bi-amped and the Sub10 is also a powered speaker. Admittedly, the new monitoring system cost several times more than the old but I still wasn't certain I would hear any significant improvement due to the law of diminishing returns. I was pleasantly surprised to find a vast improvement in accuracy, resolution and imaging. Nonetheless, for my home AV systems and home theater I am sticking with passive speakers driven by an AV receiver. Particularly in the theater it would be much too complicated, not to mention expensive, to have all 9 speakers powered. The two subs are powered. If I were ever to want a residential standalone stereo system for music listening only I might very well go with a system using powered speakers.
I wasn't looking for an active speakers initially as i believe it will not be audiophile sound quality. Till i've listened to a pair of Focal Trio 11be, I pulled the trigger! Ain't an audiophile , i still have my dac, pre-amp,power cable,xlr cable to play with. And finding suitable spk stand to fill up with my existing atabites, isoacoustic Gaia1, not going to waste.
I love to get my hands on as many speakers and amplifiers as I can, because I know they all produce different sound, and have their own personalities, eight years ago I got a pair of active definitive technology BP7000sc and through the years I have also acquired B&W, vandersteen, klipsch forte iii, cornwal, sonus faber, focal, mirage,……….I passed them on and I always return to my active towers, if I ever find something better I will sell them, however, 8 years have gone by and I don’t think I will part with them.
How are those panels bass traps? They look about 3 inches in the video which aren't thick enough to absorb any low frequencies. Unless they're not done in which case please correct me.
Whats your take on Bang & Olufsen Beolab 50?
Those are active speakers.
You could design and build a active speaker for the Japanese market. Would it be worth it in a business sense?
I've been using Actives for over a decade and have zero interest in Passives, would be very interested in buying a PS Audio active speaker if you were to make one.
I have a set of active speakers - Elac Navis ARB-51 (designed by Andrew Jones) and they sound heavenly. Also, because they're active and not powered, the sound changes depending on the source components (dac, streamer, etc.), meaning you can still tweak active speakers' sound and upgrade the hardware, just not as much as you would with passive speakers. This kind of minimal approach makes me very happy because I don't want to spend years switching components, hoping to find that perfect sound. I'd rather listen to music!
How are they active and not powered?
@@playbackvintagehifihunter9669 Yes, without power those Elac
3 way active speakers are dead. 300W amps per speaker needs some juice.
@@pekkatervala8476 active speakers have their own dedicated internal amps?? What active speakers you using?
@@playbackvintagehifihunter9669 Behringer B3030A, two amps inside with an active crossover. 6,75" woofer, ribbon tweeter. I leave power on 24/7 and drive them with small mixer. Most of the time using a laptop and smart TV as source.
It seems some Genelec speakers are very good. No comments about that? Or are they too good compared to the new PS-Audio speakers?
Genelec speakers have one of the most impressive sound I ever heard considering both worlds, active and passive...
They are exceptional. I had the 8040As. Super clear and detailed. Some people dislike Genelecs because they are too clear. Their job is to separate everything for mixing. You actually lose the impression of "layers" in the music, which is the goal of their design. So in a way they are too good.
I am kind of new to the audiophile scene, but wanted to know how to output to stereo or studio monitors and to headphones; and switching between the two.
I have researched that I shouldn't connect speakers to headphone amps, nor vice versa.
So what hardware do I need to listen on headphones and speakers respectively?
Thank you very much for y'all time!
Depends on your source (what you're feeding into the amplifier). Let's say it was from a preamp or maybe a mixing board. That source should then feed a receiver with both a headphone output and a speaker output. Or, if it's not what you want, you can purchase a separate headphone amplifier and speaker amplifier and then feed them both with the same input. The trick is to feed from a line output like that from a preamp.
@@Paulmcgowanpsaudio I was thinking of a audio interface, but which preamp would you recommend? I have a pretty big budget, but dont want to go all out yet. Maybe ones that can power headphones such as Audeze LCD-X and Beyerdynamics 1990 Pro and maybe better ones down the line like the Ayra or LCD-5s at some point.
www.schiit.com/products/magnius Check out Schiit audio
@@Paulmcgowanpsaudio have checked out their dacs and amps, but will do with more of their products, thank you sir!
So the turntable in this video is prominently displayed, but not mentioned? Oversight?
Not part of the topic, just for show XD
If something goes wrong with your active speakers, everything goes wrong.
Active for me. Just for TV. Using the virtual surround DSP from the TV. Will sound much MUCH better than a similarly priced soundbar.
Many active speakers are fantastic.
But as Paul said, you do not get to pick your amplifier, because it is built-in to the speaker.
But if you play the speakers, and they sound great, then you are good to go -- as long as you understand that there will be no amp upgrade in your future.
And comparisons to passive speakers must be made on a case-by-case basis.
There are countless great sounding passive speakers, and there are countless poor sounding speakers.
So if you have a great pair of "active" speakers, it will blow away most "passive" speakers, except for the best ones.
In the early 1990's, I purchased a pair of AR Powered Partner active speakers for my computer (it was a Gateway 2000, with a 66 mHz DX/2 CPU, 8 MB of RAM, 1 MB of video memory, and a 340 MB hard drive).
Back then, the computers that had speakers had lousy sound. When I heard the AR active speakers, they blew anything and everything that came with a computer in those days.
They still sound good today. But I know that there are far better active speakers today. But for general computer work, these AR speakers are very good.
I am pretty sure that the Genelec active speakers, that Kevin in Hong Kong wrote in about, would blow my AR speakers away. But those Genelec's are for serious music listening, and will probably best nearly all passive speakers in their price range.
Cheers!
As a decades-long owner of actives, are most ‘Do-it-yourself’ home stereo buffs able match amps and transducers better than say a manufacturer like ATC in England? Doubtful. But I do understand most hi fi buffs want the ability to ‘tweak’ their systems in perhaps a constant mode of buy and sell. Their hi fi dealers need that activity too.
Hello;
active speakers are equipped with high power amplifiers in woofer line (usually several hundred W).
So how to explain, that a 50W integrated amp can properly drive woofer in passive speaker?
I’ve enjoyed my active Meridians and ATC’s for years… Well, decades.. cheers! And to ‘stir the pot’, Octave Records use ATC SCM 50’s on their mixing desk. 👊🏻
Dear Paul, I do hope that you'll get around to design truly high end active speakers. Being in the market for speakers, preferrable active ones, right now, I might buy them 5-10 years down the line.
I listened to many speakers in many stores over the last year and I usually find active speakers to sound much more colorful than passive ones. I also like not having to worry about finding the matching amp. I do believe that the speaker designer should take care of that.
Unfortunately, none of the active designs so far could match the imaging qualities of the Zellaton Plural Evo.
Hi Paul here's Chris from Germany ✌️appreciate your video 👌do you ever hear the Fischer Audio Pegasus full active Speaker development with the great Walter Fuchs from SAC-Audio!? For me personal best speaker ever purely natural 😊 greetings from Chris and stay to be a great Person and Audio Designer.....
my neighbors and i would love some bass traps😉
Active speakers are superior especially if you can tune the dsp to your liking exact frequency response at your listening position no phase issues introduced by 24db LR xo other than passive being simpler I see no benefit for an audiophile
Even the mixer boards at venues have an eq built in...
Maybe they can stop spending money on equipment and listen to music instead XD
CRAP... Paul, now i have to wait again. i understand you are running a business, but we want PS Audio's masterpiece speaker from Paul which should be active with a DAC. That room looks just awesome. thx Paul ;-))
The main advantage of proper active speakers is their use of active crossovers which come before the amps in the signal chain.
are you familiar with Dennis Foley?
I'm old enough to remember Philips inventing "The motional feedback" speaker, back in the 70s. I wasn't impressed then, and I've heard nothing since to make me change my mind. Call me a dinosaur, but for me it's a good amp, and decent pair of passives any time.
EEEW more split system A/c you need to do the video on why they are not ideal in a listening room. I mean for those who are crazy over the top and don’t mind dropping 1mill + on a setup anyway all good keep ‘em coming P-man!
The other problem with active is vibration. I wouldn’t want my amp inside my speaker, where it will be subject to the vibration that’s inevitably inside the cabinet.
dont blame the "active" but the implementation of it, you could just have the speaker wire long enough so that there is no amp in the speaker.
I’d say the majority of recording studios use active speakers today, where reliability is obviously a massive concern. They’ve only been gaining popularity since the 90s when Genelec’s became pretty common. If properly designed, vibration is not an issue. In fact, I once accidentally knocked a Genelec 1031 off a stand back when I was an assistant engineer. Me and the producer I worked for tested it and couldn’t find any issues. He then mixed a Grammy winning album on them like a month later.
@@sublimedrg The audiophiles are worried about the vibration "affecting the sound" while it's occurring, not about the durability so much :)
As long as the speakers and amps are designed to be complimentary it doesn't matter if the amps are in the speaker enclosures or external (with manufacturer tested and recommended speaker cables). For an individual to select passive speakers and amplifiers separately, possibly from different manufacturers, will just be a crap shoot as to the overall sound quality. I've always used separate components, and manufacturers, for my home hi-fi systems (admittedly not high-end but decent mid-market components). Recently, in my home electronic music studio, I replaced good quality passive monitors (Event 20/20's), a powered 15" sub-woofer (JBL driver and 250W RMS Dayton Audio plate amp) and a discrete stereo amp (Hafler P1500) with a 2.1 system from Adam Audio consisting of an Adam Sub10 (powered) and dual Adam A7X's (bi-amped). The monitors are fed directly from the analog output of a tc electronic Finalizer Express D/A which, in turn, receives the digital audio via a RME Fireface 802 digital audio interface from the DAW. I was blown away by the improvement in sound quality. This is the best sounding audio system I've ever heard. For years I've rarely just sat and listened to music as a primary activity. Since installing the Adam Audio equipment I've spend hours listening to my collection, usually FLAC files ripped from CD's. The power and accuracy of the bass frequencies is astonishing and the imaging and field depth of the A7X's is impressive. Such a system illustrates the advantage of using an integrated system from a single vendor. This is, of course a near-field system, usable by a single person sitting about four feet away from the speakers in the sweet spot.
One of the things I've learned is that with hifi. You don't know what your missing till you hear it. I've had setups I though were good then got new speakers that made my old speakers sound awful.
Amps can be so small these days that space shouldn't be a big issue. That being said . An set of active stereo speakers is better than one of those little bluetooth boxes that normies love to use.
Thats true, active speakers has that limitation of just sounding 1 way. You cant do tubes if your kinda burnt out of solid state. You cant put a warmer amplifier or a analytical amp depending on your mood. Having 2 or more different sounding amp in my opinion is good at keeping you interested in audio.
Just use a different pre-amp with flavouring capability, or DSP/emulators on PC :)
I kinda agree ... actives DO have a lot going for them ..... or if you can't buy actives to your tastes or requirements then maybe place the amp right next to the speaker and have the SHORTEST cable possible
Is it because active speakers are typically "pro audio", and therefore they aren't pretty enough? I don't believe that sound has anything to do with it, which may be the first step to cracking the mold. (All my speakers are active, and I won't go back to passive. I no longer have a separate amp, and for the cost of a good amp alone I can buy another crazy good set of monitors, or maybe 2 reference subs to go with my existing monitors. I may never buy another passive speaker!)
Not all active speakers have class D amps. I recenlty bought a set of Audio Energy AE1 for a my second system and these have class A/B amps in them. Sounds fantastic btw.
Correct, the writer made an incorrect assumption that actves are just ‘class D’. My active ATC’s are Class A up to a certain threshold, then go A/B I believe.
That's the reality of what we are today Paul,
i went active a decade ago and never looked back, the wireless tech, class d, dirac and dsp is the future, convenience is king with the next generation audiophile.
A set of price-point PS audio, active, hifi home audio speakers would be an incredible bang for the buck, and with the right marketing would sell like hot cakes.
I bet they'll do some eventually.
Here's a non-audiophile question; you always mentioned giving the speakers some distance from the wall, and you from the speakers. But how about desktop setup? Specifically for gaming, How to best position the speaker to get the most out of the soundstage? Since presumably most casual users put their speakers on top of their desk, besides their monitor, which doesn't give much distance between the speakers and the person (or even the left speaker and the right one). Let's just assume that the person doesn't have enough space on the floor and only have their desk to put the speakers on.
Should the speakers be angled inward towards the person? Outward towards the surrounding? Or just straight front facing?
For height, speakers should be sitting so your ears are halfway between the tweeter and woofer.
In my experience, there are two camps from my when it comes to toe-in, but they both agree on one thing. Make an equilateral triangle using the two speakers and your listening position.
The disagreement comes as to whether your head should be at the point of that triangle, or ~30cm INSIDE the triangle.
Personally, I belong to camp Inside.
Buy Paul's Audiophile Guide and CD.
In Germany active speakers are popular particularly from German speakers companies
Yes, Hedd, nubert, canton...they all have brilliant active speakers and they all see those as the future
Amplifiers don't like vibration; the very last place you should put an amp is in a vibrating box i.e in a speaker cabinet
This needs to sink into more brains. I use passive subs as my old active sub's amp died. Very common.
That ceiling alone cost more than my apartment I bet.
Active speakers has been pn the market for decades, but they have never got me excited. There are so many ways to build good class D amps today, so maybe I should let go of my bias to try out those Genalec speakers in my desktop setup? That said, I go to great lengths to isolate amps and speakers, and putting an amp into a speaker shaking with soundwaves just seem counterintuitive... Sitting on the fence... not sure where I’d go.
The only thing to do is go and have a listen. Active speakers are also being used at the very high end. I currently use a pair of 3-way fully active Legacy Audio Aeris speakers (with 4 internal class-D amps modules per speaker). The Legacy Audio Wavelet preamp is digital, where the active cross-over, room-correction, and tone controls all happen in the digital domain, so no issues with phase alignment between drivers. These are highly immersive speakers and make pretty much all my LPs sound great. I use them at least 6 hours a day, with most of it being with Netflix video. ie. Not fatiguing. The Legacy Audio Valor speakers are also fully active speakers at the price of $86,000 (includes pre-amp and all amplification). When I was listening to a track by Sting, the music felt like mist surrounding the singer. I have never experienced anything like this before. Pre-conceptions can often get in the way of experiencing what is possible.
@@matthewbarrow3727 if the Aeris accepts analogue then I suppose the signal path involve an ADC stage before the DSP, then (a DAC here?) amplification for the speaker drivers
Or does it work another way?
@@philiptong4978 You are correct. It takes SPDIF or USB directly from a streamer (or laptop) in digital. It does include an ADC convertor to convert analog to digital. It has 4 DACs on the output stage, one for each channel. Even though the signal path is much longer when playing an LP, there is something about the sound which feels great. While I mostly listen to streaming music due to the convenience, I do enjoy playing an LP every now and then to give myself a treat.
@@matthewbarrow3727 thanks for the reply, it makes a lot of sense to feed Aeris from a streamer, as all it needs is digital audio data and an interface to control it
Thanks, Matthew! This is very interesting. Sounds like you’ve got a superb system.
Go tell Linn that their Klimax 350 are not audiophiles enough. But they are certainly not wallet friendly (60k)...
Linn Sara’s which will go active at some point, active Sara’s can sound very good but need quit a lot of amps!
And not class d…
Linn speakers have always been dodgy; they should stick to turntables
@@johnholmes912 sorry to disagree some of their older lines speaker when active sound quite good, but you need a lot of amplifiers to run them. I expect we fundamentally disagree but there we are I will stop there!
Nice room Paul, I really enjoy your input! Maybe one of these days if I'm every in your area us two older guys can talk gear. Keep sharing your audiophile life with us, great knowledge!
Good active speakers are better than passive ones. many passive use an amplifier and passive crossover. The slightly better ones use an amplifier and a DSP. which is active crossover and EQ. Then you can adjust things much better without being afraid of phase shift and the weaknesses of a passive crossover
Many bluetooth speakers use DSP. therefore so good sound in such a small format.
Bose has almost always done that but they have their own pre-programmed EQ. box that comes with the speakers. Then they do not have to make such perfect speakers and can adjust away weaknesses.
That voicecrack lol 0:03
passive systems are easier to repair and upgrade.... not until recent years i learnt repairing an active system.. you gonna need to meddle with transistors and ic chips...
sub-woofers are usually active because the bass frequencies are so hard to tune or cure by a customer.... active usually means factory tuned..
I personally cant really hear a diffrence between amps.
There's a little difference in some, but usually seems to be the result of intentional flavouring, or in the case of tube amps, they way they interact with the speaker load, and some have non linear responses.
Once you get to a certain level, a well sorted accurate amp wouldn't sound any different to another well sorted, accurate amp imo
Passive
Problem is you need more wall outlets and one for each speaker which is a pain and if your outlets are connected to a wall switch it's a other problem. That's why I don't like active speakers and you have to build a speaker to fit a plate amp or the amp itself so you seem limited to designing the speaker cabinet/box. Other limitation is wattage if the amp does 100 Watts but you have a large room that requires two to 300 watts or you move you can't do nothing about it. That's why you see most active speakers as PC desktop speakers or studio speakers.
While I can see many pro's for active speakers I feel there's a big drawback. Where passive speakers will last for decades, I fear that will not be the case for active speakers. I doubt, you will have much success repairing the speakers when after 10 years they break down. It will be way easier to replace the amp of a passive setup. With the added bonus of improvements in amp technology. And how about the heat of the interal amps in active speakers, how will that effect the life of the speaker?
I believe that active speakers with active crossovers and amplifiers driving directly connected speakers are unquestionably far superior to passive speakers with passive crossovers between the amplifiers and the speakers. Passive speakers with passive crossovers are a compromise that increases simplicity and reduces cost for the consumer but reduces sound quality. DIY passive crossover tweaks are sometimes an improvement but not a solution. Audiophiles fret over their amplifiers but don't give a moments thought to the distortion added by the passive crossover.
we still need to solve the hiss noise issue with connecting amps directly to drivers, something i am experiencing right now.
@@sudd3660 Amplifier noise is independent of the load. Amplifier noise is not measured with a speaker connected. If you have a problem with amplifier noise, it is not because your speakers are directly connected to your amplifier without a passive crossover. The passive crossover does not prevent noise. A passive crossover would pass any amplifier noise to the speaker.
@@paulsebring6930 i tried hooking up passive speakers and drivers to different types of amps, power amps and integrated amps.
also with the plate amp.
it indeed was that plate amp. maybe the passive crossover helped a little bit.
so the issue i found has little to do with direct to drivers, but the plate amp itself.
but then the problem is how they make plate amps. normal hifi power amps or integrated amps i have much better experience with in regards to hiss noise.
Art lots of studio monitors active? Why is this true? Or maybe you’re not correct
most.. 90-95%
I’m so sorry, I just noticed, I meant to say “maybe that’s not correct”, implying I may be mistaken, not you
For those audiophiles among us that can't rid themselves of preconceived notions, try listening to Erin's Klippel review of these active speakers. It has everything audiophiles love to hate, the JBL badge, a compression driver and is active with DSP, yet it is a phenomenal audiophile speaker. ua-cam.com/video/C5iEgnAfwJQ/v-deo.html
I bought $10 speakers from a Chinese brand years ago. I recently bought a $150 Sony home theater system.
WTF the $10 speakers sound way better than the Sony's.
My take on it is. All amps sound slightly different, be it Valve, Solid state class A, Class AB, Class Class D etc etc.
A lot of cost goes into the design and parts of these different designs. Active speaker amps, to me at least are much more crude things, not designed to the same standards of performance at all. Their use makes a system a bit inflexible as far as I am concerned.
i agree with you point, and my solution is to use hifi power amps and separate dac's. then dsp box to control it all.
it is sad that when we hear the world "active speaker" its a plate amp with everything built in one unit.
@@sudd3660 What you're describing seems to be something like the Passlabs Rushmore speaker.
@@abbersj2935 i tried looking that speaker up, could not find much information.
my point is that you can make it any way you want. as simple as having the complete plate amp in a sepre housing(as i do) or use a minidsp shd studio into a dac and two stereo poweramps, that could drive 2 way speakers.
that is the simple solutions i know off. add as much complexity you like from there.
@@sudd3660 It's a 4 way active speaker. Driven by 4 class A amps similar to the ones Pass labs sold as separate units. They did not make many, even though reasonably priced at the time.
@@abbersj2935 impressive, i might go to something similar in the future, but i will stick to class d amps. they should be great in a few years.
there is no sound quality difference between well designed active & good synergy passiv. only more conveniant to go active + built in DSP section and amplification
wireless or run XLR to the active speakers?? (blue tooth?)
there is not going to be any Bluetooth or mqa support, that don't make any hifi sense.
@@sudd3660 Thank you I'm just new to Hi - Fi / home theater what is difference volume vs. Decibels? I have speaker 86 db I can just crank up my Db up to +12 for low senstitive speakers
@@dandonna852 the 86 number you mentioned, think that is the sensitivity of your speakers, dont think about that, just use the volume control to set your desired listening volume.
if sounds distorts or won't go loud enough then think about more powerful amp or change speakers.
@@sudd3660 thank you
I prefer passive
Buy a pair of LS50 wireless II and be done with it!
Start at 1:56
DSP + Active speakers will get you any sound characteristics you want within physical limitations. With a passive system, when you swap out components, all you're doing is changing the frequency response...the same frequency response that can be changed with DSP. DSP + Active speakers will save you a lot more money, time, space, and save you from nearly all of the snake oil products.
I have 4 x Genelec 8040a's. These things sound great!! especially when outside and playing an MP£ directly from an IOS device.