Uro WILL be banned it's just a matter of when, it's just too ubiquitous too efficient and too much of a pain the ass unless you yourself are playing it. Creature design that is a Swiss army knife at all times in the game is bad design
If you REALLY wanna run nine you can run woodland bellower. Its ETB fecthes fierce empath that then fetches deep fiend. Though 6 mana to fetch a deep fiend might be too expensive even if you do get a 6/5 and 1/1 body for doing so as a plus
The majority of this deck is relatively budget friendly, outside of Uro. If you wanna build this without Uros (if you're playing on more of a budget) and don't mind a bit of jank, you can use Cling to Dust. Gains life or draws cards, can trigger silversmote ghoul, can be escaped. Not _good_ per-se, but not bad either.
I actually really like Cling to Dust. It keeps wrecking me in Modern when I play aggro. Seems well suited for this deck, especially with everyone playing Uro (sniping opponent's Uros seems great).
47:20 Seth, you're going to have to live your whole life knowing you missed saying, "Secret Keeper. Venture Deeper. Narcomeeber." (Later: At 1:22 why not play Narcomeba to chump?)
This deck seems a lot closer to something like CrabVine than actual Dredge, although "Crabless Vineless CrabVine" probably isn't the best name for it. It's also funny how Pioneer has had, at various points, a Storm deck, an Affinity deck, and a Dredge deck, despite none of those mechanics being in the format.
I’ve been trying Sultai Dredge in pioneer pretty much since the format came out so this is cool to see. I never see Breaking//Entering in lists online tho and that card is great in the deck. I feel like it’s just been forgotten
Ohh, Breaking/Entering does sound sweet, especially in Pioneer because we technically don't need our self-mill to be creatures to trigger Vengevine like we do in Modern.
I loved this deck, and I had it built. My problems was drawing all my dredge cards and milling my mill cards. I feel like this deck needs 1-2 more cards in order to truly be something really crazy.
I feel your pain. Top decking Creeping Chill almost made me pull my hair out. Someone suggested Breaking // Entering for most self-mill, seems like it could be worth trying.
That list looks really sweet. I don't think I've seen Deep-Fiend and Flash mixed together like that before, and Elder Deep-Fiend is a really powerful card.
Like I know Uro is good. I just didn't feel deep inside that it was absurd until this video. Like I play against it and I grumble cause it's really good, but it hit harder than usual watching the video.
Seeing as Secret Keeper was really only used for Venture Deeper, I think it's worth running either 4 Tome Scour instead or a 2/2 mix. It goes straight to the grave to fuel escape and that extra card means a lot, especially when you can mill: Chill, Silversmote x2, Amalgam x2. Odds are against you but that's what makes this deck so fun. Thanks for the video.
I know FoW took the spotlight there so I almost didn't notice it, but is that the Phyrexian Swamp from Jumpstart at 1:25:28 but in English, because that's lame as hell that it's not in Phyrexian on MTGO
Uro oughta be banned. Most of Seth's opponents were running it, as well as it being an important piece of Seth's deck. Often matchups were Uro v Uro. It hoses low to the ground aggro decks and pressures control decks. Its just a problem card.
Uro is certainly *the* card of Pioneer at the moment. While I also wouldn't mind seeing it banned (and Pioneer and probably Standard as well), I guess the upside of Uro being the top card is that it tends to lead to slower, grindy games, which I think is an upgrade over getting combo killed on turn four consistently.
I play a similar deck in historic. In that, I play a few mystic sanctuaries. They are really useful for a creeping chill you cast or discard, as well as finding your sideboard cards you milled over. I'm wondering if it's worth reworking the mana base to try that in pioneer also
I have a version with Notion Rain. Surveil lets you choose which to bin and which to draw. Uro is too expensive for my budget so that is my sub til I get Uro
As a Pioneer Dredge player from the beginning, the new Dredge lists more resemble Modern Crabvine than Dredge. I do think it's the best strategy going forward for the deck. I'm excited to finally dust off my old list and spice it up with Uro and Silversmote.
Yeah, I was expecting explosive Modern/Legacy Dredge turns, but in reality this deck is more of a slow aggro or fast midrange deck that can be unbeatable in the late game since all of its creatures return to play every turn. I think the Dredge name is actually a bit deceiving (although I'm not sure there is anything better to call it).
Brainstorm in Pioneer would be interesting. It's very much powered down without fetchlands, it might actually be safe-ish in the format (although being able to put back Creeping Chills/Narcomeobias would make it insane in this deck).
Yeah, I don't know why, I think it goes back to playing a ton of Satyr Wayfinder decks in Theros Standard. I've loved it ever since (even though it does occasionally betray me and give me zero lands).
I think if you're going into red, you'd go first for things like cathartic reunion and merchant of the vale, since to me it seems this deck is really missing ways to dump unwanted card in the graveyard.
The problem is that Kroxa is double red. If we could escape it for a single red it would probably be worth it, but hitting a double red splash would be really tough on the mana.
I think the deck is good but it needs more self discard, to get rid of stuff you don't want in hand. I dunno maybe take blue out, add red for thrill of possibility...
Anyone wanting to run this list, I highly recommend running Glowspore shaman over wayfinder. Mills effectively the same most of the time and insures you don’t draw your narcos or creeping chills. Also provides a much better clock.
drake consumer of souls and cheese strings putting the land on top is the point. It prevents drawing all the things you do not want to draw which is half this deck while maintaining mana fixing. Missing the one card is only relevant if wayfinder doesn’t hit a land.
@@Leethesynn you're forcing yourself to effectively miss a draw in exchange for possibly drawing a chill or narcomeba, while possibly also drawing a usable card. Even if we do hit narco or chill, we can still cast them
@@drakeconsumerofsoulsandche4303 your not forcing, its a may ability. there will be turns where you will have gas and not want to draw one of the many cards you dont want silversmote and amalgam included. pioneer doesnt have the benefit of actual dredge negating the draw step entirely so it is advantageous to not draw a do nothing 3-4 mana card.
Why do people see it as a bad thing to win by your opp timing out? I mean, it’s pretty much the same reasoning for when you’re playing paper, winning the match (1-0) and take a more defensive line on game 2. It’s not stalling (unless you’re slow playing on the paper case). You’re not guilty that your opponent can’t play at proper pace. It’s also a skill to know when to concede to save time.
What I really liked about these games was the grindy and attrition style games. No combos through four rounds, relatively fair and above board magic. I’m very pleased to see it
Can't wait to see Uro being banned in Standard Pioneer & Modern. Such a problematic card that should have never been printed. 1 for 1 removal should be viable.
My favorite decks have always been those that utilize 1 for 1 removal and plays a grindy midrange game. Can't really play those anymore 'cus of all the "enters the battlefield" value out there :/
Obvious complaints about Uro aside, gods, Match 2 reminded me how miserably designed SOI Nahiri is to play against. Planeswalkers as a separate type was a mistake. Too bad it's here to stay.
I feel like that sideboard needs some work, I understand that this deck is quite linear even post-sideboard but you didn't bring in like 80% of the cards in there
Agonizing Remorse can exile from the graveyard or hand, so it took our Uro from the graveyard (which was basically our one chance to get back in the game).
When you run 4 of a card you hate to draw, and 3 sets of them. The bizzarely busted creatures stitcher supplier and satyr wayfinder. Oddly I think stichers supplier is the best black 1 drop ever beating out shadow. I mean the best modern deck evers nut draw was stichers supplier satyr wayfinder back when they came with a free 8/8 trample you could recast over and over. Gonna be weird to explain in 5 years, "you played a 1 mana 1/1, a 2 mana 1/1 and you won, on the spot. No they had no activated abilities don't worry about it."
Rant time: silversmote ghoul and creeping chill is not a combo, especially in modern dredge. You need to have the ghouls in the graveyard that turn, and you only have 8 cards that gain 3 life to actually return it. I will concede that one of those is uro, a repeatable source, but at that point you're probably already winning if you're repeatedly swinging into your opponent
Uro Wars: The Format
That could be any format
The guy who designed Uro: *trollface*
Uro WILL be banned it's just a matter of when, it's just too ubiquitous too efficient and too much of a pain the ass unless you yourself are playing it. Creature design that is a Swiss army knife at all times in the game is bad design
Ok I really like that intro, just gives a little teaser, and doesn’t spoil too much
I'd still rather have none, but this is at least better than just spoiling a game.
I’ve come to appreciate the teasers and this is a nice one. A little flavor right at the start
Thanks!
That deep fiend deck is playing empathy and the emerge tutor guy, means they are effectively playing 8 or more deep fiends. Spooky.
Yeah, Fierce Empath is really sweet with Elder Deep-Fiend!
If you REALLY wanna run nine you can run woodland bellower. Its ETB fecthes fierce empath that then fetches deep fiend. Though 6 mana to fetch a deep fiend might be too expensive even if you do get a 6/5 and 1/1 body for doing so as a plus
And opponent was missing Sanctum of Ugin for more Elder-Deep Fiend tutors
Really like the idea, hopes it sees some success
Irony that when a format is fixed, you move to play dredge
lmao
Dredgeless dredge!
I thought the same thing
Someone has to be the bad guy :)
The majority of this deck is relatively budget friendly, outside of Uro. If you wanna build this without Uros (if you're playing on more of a budget) and don't mind a bit of jank, you can use Cling to Dust. Gains life or draws cards, can trigger silversmote ghoul, can be escaped. Not _good_ per-se, but not bad either.
I actually really like Cling to Dust. It keeps wrecking me in Modern when I play aggro. Seems well suited for this deck, especially with everyone playing Uro (sniping opponent's Uros seems great).
47:20 Seth, you're going to have to live your whole life knowing you missed saying, "Secret Keeper. Venture Deeper. Narcomeeber." (Later: At 1:22 why not play Narcomeba to chump?)
This deck seems a lot closer to something like CrabVine than actual Dredge, although "Crabless Vineless CrabVine" probably isn't the best name for it. It's also funny how Pioneer has had, at various points, a Storm deck, an Affinity deck, and a Dredge deck, despite none of those mechanics being in the format.
ToadofJustice I see we are from the same village
Exactly what I thought...
Who comes up with a better name?
you know this deck is powerful because Seth attacks with his 0/4 and doesn't bother to stop it from attacking
Gotta send a message.
He didn't get the best beard in MtG by *not* attacking with a 0-power creature.
I’ve been trying Sultai Dredge in pioneer pretty much since the format came out so this is cool to see. I never see Breaking//Entering in lists online tho and that card is great in the deck. I feel like it’s just been forgotten
I agree. While playing this deck, that is proabably the best card in my deck
Ohh, Breaking/Entering does sound sweet, especially in Pioneer because we technically don't need our self-mill to be creatures to trigger Vengevine like we do in Modern.
I loved this deck, and I had it built. My problems was drawing all my dredge cards and milling my mill cards. I feel like this deck needs 1-2 more cards in order to truly be something really crazy.
I feel your pain. Top decking Creeping Chill almost made me pull my hair out. Someone suggested Breaking // Entering for most self-mill, seems like it could be worth trying.
@@MTGGoldfish oh...that does sound good! Man...can we please get Bloodghast reprint in Zendikar Rising, for more icing on the cake?! 😅
That's the type of deck I'm trying to build. A simic flash emerge deck. I need a decklist to get some ideas.
I assume the aspiringspike, the pilot in the video, will be streaming it tomorrow on twitch
@@TheSwimmer6042 great!
That list looks really sweet. I don't think I've seen Deep-Fiend and Flash mixed together like that before, and Elder Deep-Fiend is a really powerful card.
@@TheSwimmer6042 km has
You should join the pioneer emerge discord!
Seth: *has a Narcomoeba in hand for the entire game since Turn 1*
Also Seth: "We can't block this flier." *passes the turn without doing anything*
Like I know Uro is good. I just didn't feel deep inside that it was absurd until this video. Like I play against it and I grumble cause it's really good, but it hit harder than usual watching the video.
Yeah, Uro is really, really good. I'd guess its the best card in Pioneer at the moment, but a pretty wide margin.
‘Is the format fixed’ plays uro😐
If you can escape them, join them 🤷🏻♂️
It's pretty refreshing to see Uro played as a centerpiece instead of a generic good card :)
😜😜😜😜😜
Seeing as Secret Keeper was really only used for Venture Deeper, I think it's worth running either 4 Tome Scour instead or a 2/2 mix. It goes straight to the grave to fuel escape and that extra card means a lot, especially when you can mill: Chill, Silversmote x2, Amalgam x2. Odds are against you but that's what makes this deck so fun. Thanks for the video.
This deck looks cool but, as a Dimir player in Ravnica, I suggest putting some cards with the surveil ability to smooth those draws
I know FoW took the spotlight there so I almost didn't notice it, but is that the Phyrexian Swamp from Jumpstart at 1:25:28 but in English, because that's lame as hell that it's not in Phyrexian on MTGO
Uro oughta be banned. Most of Seth's opponents were running it, as well as it being an important piece of Seth's deck. Often matchups were Uro v Uro. It hoses low to the ground aggro decks and pressures control decks. Its just a problem card.
Uro is certainly *the* card of Pioneer at the moment. While I also wouldn't mind seeing it banned (and Pioneer and probably Standard as well), I guess the upside of Uro being the top card is that it tends to lead to slower, grindy games, which I think is an upgrade over getting combo killed on turn four consistently.
Plus, Theros is still selling. So it is better to wait another 6 months before dropping the hammer on the sales too.
I've steamrolled Uro decks with my Pyromancer Tremors deck, so its certainly possible to beat Uro with aggro decks.
really needed start/finish in this deck, helps out a lot.
One of my favorite decks I've seen in a while. Probably needs another way to discard besides Haunted Dead.
Uro fits so well into this deck it is obscene.
This deck would like Ashiok for milling and exiling the uro mirror graveyards
26:09 I like Seth's hand at that time because it's my type of hand when I'm testing out a deck.
I play a similar deck in historic. In that, I play a few mystic sanctuaries. They are really useful for a creeping chill you cast or discard, as well as finding your sideboard cards you milled over. I'm wondering if it's worth reworking the mana base to try that in pioneer also
Yeah! I think someone similar can work in Historic for sure.
I have a version with Notion Rain. Surveil lets you choose which to bin and which to draw. Uro is too expensive for my budget so that is my sub til I get Uro
As a Pioneer Dredge player from the beginning, the new Dredge lists more resemble Modern Crabvine than Dredge. I do think it's the best strategy going forward for the deck. I'm excited to finally dust off my old list and spice it up with Uro and Silversmote.
Yeah, I was expecting explosive Modern/Legacy Dredge turns, but in reality this deck is more of a slow aggro or fast midrange deck that can be unbeatable in the late game since all of its creatures return to play every turn. I think the Dredge name is actually a bit deceiving (although I'm not sure there is anything better to call it).
Are White and Red banned from pioneer or something?
You could possibly play Cling to Dust as another way to trigger Silversmote Ghoul
Collective brutality seems like it might solve some issues in this deck
Seems good in the sideboard at least.
I'm getting some serious eldritch moon pro tour vibes from that sultai emrakul deck
Wow brainstorm would be good in this deck
Brainstorm in Pioneer would be interesting. It's very much powered down without fetchlands, it might actually be safe-ish in the format (although being able to put back Creeping Chills/Narcomeobias would make it insane in this deck).
really good showcase of a fun deck it seems
Ah yes, It wouldn't be a Seth video without the soothing clicking of his mouse in the background :3
I have a weird soft spot for Satyr Wayfinder too lol
Yeah, I don't know why, I think it goes back to playing a ton of Satyr Wayfinder decks in Theros Standard. I've loved it ever since (even though it does occasionally betray me and give me zero lands).
There's a reason I use world shaper is so many decks. He also loves fetch lands
Man, if you're not playing Uro, you're losing to Uro.
It's Uro's world, we're just playing in it.
😜😜😜😜
Ooooh driven to despair... very underrated card.
Is it worth doing 4 color to play Kroxa? I'm sad Kroxa sees 0 play anywhere, he isnt as powerful as Uro, but man does he hurt
I think if you're going into red, you'd go first for things like cathartic reunion and merchant of the vale, since to me it seems this deck is really missing ways to dump unwanted card in the graveyard.
The problem is that Kroxa is double red. If we could escape it for a single red it would probably be worth it, but hitting a double red splash would be really tough on the mana.
I think the deck is good but it needs more self discard, to get rid of stuff you don't want in hand. I dunno maybe take blue out, add red for thrill of possibility...
the deck doesn't function without blue, you need it for secretkeeper and Uro. Just add more copies of Haunted Dead and you're fine I think
Looking at your deck list is why blood moon should be in pioneer, you didn’t even bother with a basic and why would you when there is no moon!?
David H 😜😜😜😜
Hey Seth, have you considered gather the pack, it's a sweet way to mill cards but still go up cards
I think Gather the Pack or maybe Breaking // Entering are next on the list if we want to add more self-mill cards.
10:23 "We get to get back ouro..." our + Uro = ouro lol
5/5 different decks 3/5 uro decks. Glad pioneer is a format again but damn if uro isn’t just the best card in simic
1:44 I'd say its dredge, given that modern affinity had barely any affinity cards when that was still a thing.
Anyone wanting to run this list, I highly recommend running Glowspore shaman over wayfinder. Mills effectively the same most of the time and insures you don’t draw your narcos or creeping chills. Also provides a much better clock.
GSS puts the land on top, gets one less card and is harder to cast
drake consumer of souls and cheese strings putting the land on top is the point. It prevents drawing all the things you do not want to draw which is half this deck while maintaining mana fixing. Missing the one card is only relevant if wayfinder doesn’t hit a land.
@@Leethesynn you're forcing yourself to effectively miss a draw in exchange for possibly drawing a chill or narcomeba, while possibly also drawing a usable card. Even if we do hit narco or chill, we can still cast them
Leave my Wayfinders alone!
@@drakeconsumerofsoulsandche4303 your not forcing, its a may ability. there will be turns where you will have gas and not want to draw one of the many cards you dont want silversmote and amalgam included. pioneer doesnt have the benefit of actual dredge negating the draw step entirely so it is advantageous to not draw a do nothing 3-4 mana card.
This deck should be running fabled passage to shuffle creeping chills off of mulligans
Why do people see it as a bad thing to win by your opp timing out? I mean, it’s pretty much the same reasoning for when you’re playing paper, winning the match (1-0) and take a more defensive line on game 2. It’s not stalling (unless you’re slow playing on the paper case). You’re not guilty that your opponent can’t play at proper pace. It’s also a skill to know when to concede to save time.
What I really liked about these games was the grindy and attrition style games. No combos through four rounds, relatively fair and above board magic. I’m very pleased to see it
Yeah, I think Pioneer is in a really good place at the moment (minus maybe Uro, which is everywhere).
Keeping one land. What's the worse that could happen?
Looks like Dredge just got a new toy
You can tell Sef isnt used to playing dredge decks...those jank draws you wish you had milled are what the dredge experience is all about!
Why can't I only draw Stitcher's Suppliers and Satyr Wayfinders and always mill Creeping Chills and Narcomeobias?!?
😂😂😂😜😜😜
Maybe it's just because I see the Sultai colours, but this deck feels more akin to Modern Crabvine than true Dredge. Impressive deck either way though
Also! Nice job pulling the Phyrexian swamps in the treasure chests
This deck seems pretty cool. After watching the games I just don't think I'm a player who enjoys playing with Creeping Chill and Narcomeba.
man, this deck is soooo sweet
It is really fun!
I'm just happy to see Emrakul getting played 😭
Can't wait to see Uro being banned in Standard Pioneer & Modern.
Such a problematic card that should have never been printed.
1 for 1 removal should be viable.
My favorite decks have always been those that utilize 1 for 1 removal and plays a grindy midrange game. Can't really play those anymore 'cus of all the "enters the battlefield" value out there :/
@@blondiwithstyle i was under the impression those decks weren't viable for ages now
@@DimT670 I used to do fairly well with mardu pyromancer, pre-looting ban.
I can only imagine this deck with something akin to Brainstorm.
Also watching this maybe bring in leyline for uro
Obvious complaints about Uro aside, gods, Match 2 reminded me how miserably designed SOI Nahiri is to play against. Planeswalkers as a separate type was a mistake. Too bad it's here to stay.
Man do I want Prized Amalgam in Historic
I feel like that sideboard needs some work, I understand that this deck is quite linear even post-sideboard but you didn't bring in like 80% of the cards in there
Why don't you play some discard in the deck?
what exactly happened at 44:51? Im a bit confused
They got rid of the uro from gy
Agonizing Remorse can exile from the graveyard or hand, so it took our Uro from the graveyard (which was basically our one chance to get back in the game).
Crabless vineless crabvine
Is venture deeper better than tome scour?
Ah grisly salvage can grab it
Lol I’m a judge and I’ve heard a lot of players complain about top decks but demonic tutor top decks had me weak
*praises WotC for removing combo from pioneer*
*Plays an actual combo deck*
Jokes aside, I love this deck.
I feel like dredge is less combo and more aggro with a stange way of getting there.
Game one against aspiringspike playing another fantastic pile
Good call! I wasn't really paying attention to the opponent's name, but aspiringspike makes some sweet decks.
Kinda Similar to my sultai dredge in historic
Historic Dredge? A lot of these cards are in Historic
See Uro in decklist, close video.
match 1 VS aspiringspike
"Is Pioneer Finally Fixed❓❓❓"
Does Betteridge's law of headlines apply to emojis too? 🤔
You know play creeping chill is still damage to an opponent
Man, you very consistently got land-flooded. You were drawing 50-55% almost every game in a deck where it should've been 33%.
If this episode proves anything it is that Uro is not ok. Should've been banned if u ask me.
yay pioneer again!
It's back!
"Is pioneer fixed?", he asks himself as he plays dredge in the format. Oh, the irony...
Deck is stronk, just put some more lands.
When you run 4 of a card you hate to draw, and 3 sets of them. The bizzarely busted creatures stitcher supplier and satyr wayfinder.
Oddly I think stichers supplier is the best black 1 drop ever beating out shadow. I mean the best modern deck evers nut draw was stichers supplier satyr wayfinder back when they came with a free 8/8 trample you could recast over and over. Gonna be weird to explain in 5 years, "you played a 1 mana 1/1, a 2 mana 1/1 and you won, on the spot. No they had no activated abilities don't worry about it."
Eeeeeeeaaaarly!!!
Ughhhhh Uro should not exist 😂
I mostly agree, and we just played an Uro deck :)
Dredge>Deep-Fiend Tron
I'm about to be upset if that intro doesn't get wrathed.
WAOOOOAAOOW
Dredgeless Dredge.
Match 4 just shows how broken of a card Uro is. #yawn
Did any match not show that?
I wish pioneer was on arena :(
Soon (hopefully).
Rant time: silversmote ghoul and creeping chill is not a combo, especially in modern dredge. You need to have the ghouls in the graveyard that turn, and you only have 8 cards that gain 3 life to actually return it. I will concede that one of those is uro, a repeatable source, but at that point you're probably already winning if you're repeatedly swinging into your opponent
Lol is pioneer fixed? Deck looks like it’s doing some p broken stuff still imagine if grave-troll was legal
Dredge was OG rav
Yeah, if actual Dredge cards were in Pioneer this deck would get banned.
Dredgeless dredge.
First
@@MayDawn519 "First to like spite reply"
uro is such terrible card design.