Marine is Surprised When Lui Shares Her Experience Working as Black Company Employee
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- Опубліковано 4 вер 2024
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Marine: • 【#マリルイ】鷹嶺ルイ...好きなんだろ？【...
【#マリルイ】鷹嶺ルイ...好きなんだろ？【ホロライブ/宝鐘マリン】
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M: Why are you so nonchalant?!
L: Well thats because im happy now!
I felt that...
I didn't felt that...
But i would like to
Hololive is like a dream come true for this girls
I want to feel that too
What made me feel ever sadder about the whole ordeal was that some of the Japanese comments were saying "I understand you!" Or "me too", meaning that for some of them, Vtubers are probably one of the few things they decide to use up their extremely limited free time on
These girls are here helping a lot of people stay sane in similar working conditions they used to be in. I'm glad some of the Japanese bros are able to destress with Vtubers before going back to those hellish working conditions
It's very normal in Japan to work for companies like this or for multiple companies to pay the bills. That's why the culture on trains is to stay quiet at all times since people sleep on the trains.
@@iDeLaYeD_o this also explains why JP train systems are strict about time. The sleep you can get on a train can be timed and I’d calculate that time and set-up an alarm (vibration mode, not loud) just to wake up for my stop
@@Filcayra72 Nah, they have the timetables, but having experienced this firsthand in Japan, every stop has an announcement said in Japanese and English, usually twice, then every station has its own unique melody-jingle when you arrive/get-ready-to-leave at a station, so there are multiple ways to know where you are.
Plus, you can set a GPS app to make an alarm in your earbuds/earphones when you have reached your station, too.
@@the1darknight much better explained than my half knowledgeable guess. Awesome to know there’s a unique jingle we can Pavlov ourselves into waking up for.
WORK EXPLOITATION IN JAPAN IS CRAZY.
Some things that didn't make it into the clip:
* Marine tried to clarify that she doesn't think her company was that shady (chat disagrees), like she wasn't working 100hrs per week. But they did pay bonuses in fruit instead of cash and had semi-monthly "brainwashing meetings"
* How she quit: at one point, fortunes changed at the company and people started quitting in droves, so she got worried the company would go under... but it survived.
* They were made to feel that they were utterly replaceable by management even though that didn't seem to be true, so she was like "k" and quit.
* At Lui's company the normal employee case load was 20 per month, and she was working 60, but eventually got saddled with 100 like she says in this clip.
* She was subject to "service overtime" which is basically illegal mandatory overtime without pay
* Lui was working at her terrible old job until shortly before she got hired at Cover
* Lui quit under similar circumstances, once a lot of other people started quitting she also realized her work would just be done by someone else
* They felt kind of bad for the coworkers and lower managers but were satisfied to see their abusive bosses suffer, plus they could just hire new people if they needed
* For reference, the first train is 5am and the last train is midnight to 1am. So Lui was working 2 hours from home and only had 3-4 hours to commute and sleep
Damn i cant imagine something like this happen to me. I dont think i can hold it longer.
@@noahui5148 I quit right away
20 work hours and most likely minimum payment and living in a rundown apartment with paper thin walls I can imagine why there are lots of hikkikomori and suicides even if they don't become universitary Ronin trying again and again to pass entrance tests year through year these kind of company policies and the don't stand out and be one with the cog mindset will probably grind your soul to dregs and ashes.
Thank you for the extra details. It really adds more context to the clip.
I kinda was going through the same, I was working 89 hours a week at minimum wadge but at least I got paid overtime for it but no paid vacations, only 1 day a week free and no actual exit time, we could be leaving at 10 PM or at 2 AM and that's in the US, not many complain but yeah even in the US happens.
That's so sad and horrible, glad these 2 got away from that toxic environment. But can you imagine others that suffer this.... It sucks
Unfortunately, this kind of thing is all common there, they'll hit you with 'your coworker still in the office, you sure you wanna go home?' kind of tactic to make the employees to overwork without additional payments
@@raka1996 true and real.
yep. I think JP work culture is one of the worst, if not THE worst. Need a shift. Old people in charge teaching the younger gens about their fucked up ideals. Thankfully I think the younger gen is wising up to the bullshit. It'll be a long time before we see change tho.
Its really sad that even to this day it's being encouraged. As Lui said, her parents tought her "one company for a lifetime" which is super normal. Society and employers dont like it if you worked in many companies or changed jobs more than 3 o 4 times you are seen as unreliable.
@@LeonardoTheMomo I'm thankful that at least in the USA it isn't like that. It is for some places but not to the extent like JP. If I get a job offer for better pay, better hours, and better conditions, you bet your ass im moving over.
I wish i can watch the whole stream with full translation
A wholesome stream indeed
Shabby sub is a channel which translate a lot of Marin video
@@namvo3013 they used to translate a lot of clips similar to this, yeah, but they had IRL stuff happen and have only posted once in the last few months, while the archive is very nice we might not see any more from them, sad but true.
"Job Changing Pirates" for all employees who change their job for better condition. Wish all people good luck and stay healthy
Why they are being called pirates for something that's common, accepted and even enforced?
Being told since 2004 that no one is irreplaceable and it workers are especially replaceable, so no skin on my back when I learn I'm taking the position of someone who literally walked out, and might walk out too. I wish the best performance (not luck, because this is planned) to these managers.
It really feels like Tanigo finds talented people who have problems, like he seems to want to help people as much as possible in his own way
After Lui-nee left that black company i can’t even imagine the worker that fill in for Lui-nee’s position..this is so sad.
Thankfully Lui-nee left & she’s happy now.
Having survived a similar work condition with Lui's and Marine's for 3 years, I can honestly say, leaving is the best decision I've made so far in my life. Then again, those 3 years tempered my mentality in both good and bad ways.
The hardships make me stronger and able to work more efficiently due to the workload, yes. But I'm still feeling a tinge of guilt and shame if I'm not working on something or doing something useful or productive. Even taking the time to cook and eat properly feels a bit like a waste of time in the back of my mind, since I should be able to work on stuffs within the time spent on cooking and eating.
Started working freelance since last year, and it's indeed a slow start, but it feels amazing to have your own life back in your hands. Will slowly compose and nurture myself back to actually enjoy life again.
Holy heck it hit me hard when she said "that's because I'm happy now"
THANK YOU! I was hoping someone was going to clip this part. I couldn't understand all of it with my zako japanese.
Lui-nee T_T, very glad she's in a better place.
You sounds like she is dead lmao.. But yeah, glad she is in a better place now
@@tomatojuices5340 for real tho her body should be broken nvm her mind and mental. The feelings of just floating around while being in pain is just like dying man. So yeah glad she in better place.
1 life 1 work it still in my parent mind set as well, they think it's a blessing to get hired, so you should be grateful for that and be 100% faithful to that company, in which i totally disagree and sometime i have heated argument with them.
I used to have that mindset until the reality hit me hard with it.
Even you work hard, but, if nobody care about your mentality, it's fruitless. You will feel like you are just replaceable gear at that point.
@@InnocentC0 companies only care about the money. They make hundreds of time the amount they pay you with your work.
Your feelings, loyalty and years on the company doesn't matter to them.
True, nowadays (atleast in my country) you can get up to a 5x increase in your salary by jumping between companies.
The issue is the time where that was true in Japan had long since passed, a likely causality o the lost decade. in many jobs over there, an employee is just a cog that will be replaced when it breaks. But it's a terrible common problem of parents being stuck in the past. I remember my mother acting like it was possible to apply and get a job right then and there
I don't think it's a bad attitude to have. It's good to be thankful to that company for hiring you in the first place, at that time. But the thing I don't believe in, is those feelings should guilt trip you into staying with a company if something better comes along. It's always good to be thankful that we can work and provide for ourselves but it also doesn't mean we need to become mindless sheeps to a corporate overlord that may make our life miserable. Loyalty is earned, not a requirement. And even if a company treats you well, there may be just something better that comes along. I will never forget my roots and where I started out from. For instance I won't forget my first crappy job that got me started in te work force. Each bit of experience we gain is necessary and makes us who we are. So being thankful to that past is a good thing. But I'm just repeating myself. So yeah. Don't let those feelings become chains! Guilt tripping is bad!
I love her description of HoloX is just "they're all a bunch of fools but I love them"
Glad Lui got out of that mess, bc man I would've quit the first day if I had to do even half of that.
Thanks for the subs!
I'm glad you two got away from toxic environments like that. 😔 😥
It's the reason why otherworldly reincarnation is so popular in our country.
one time i got a job offer to work in japan for a year or so, then i anonymously asked some of the native employee about how the company operated, to my suprises it was very inefficient, not to mention mismanagement and dysfunctional HR, compared to other companies abroad.
I wonder if its because the higher ups are those of long ended era?
@@Delheoblanc Not a jp native, but that would be my guess. Older folks with a lot of ancient ideals about work culture. JP work culture is the fuckin worst. It's the reason I would only visit, but never live there.
Japanese people need to start protesting and asking for change more.
The way things are in the working environment of Japan is so toxic it will be bad not only for you but for all future generations. You have the most inneficient working hours in the world. And when someone complains they are asked to suffer in silent and not disrespect tradition and the senpais/elderly.
Yeah, that's why some isekai using business man or woman as their main characters. This is kinda sad, imagine you want to raise the birth rate in Japan but some people didn't have a free time for finding a couple because they worked in a black company
@@BRBingeDrinker indeed, what really shows the old ideas is that all of them warn me about the "alcoholism" where you are forced to drink and serve your higherups after work hours even if you puke out, they still going to force you to drink.
i grew up with low alcohol tolerance, hence why i rejected the offers.
Lol when Lui said chloe is "like that"
A reminder that Hololive has made the lives of many of the girls SOOOOOO much better.
Fight for to protect those smiles. And treat everyone with respect ✊
I've told people about some of the girl rl backstorirs and they don't believe me!
@@cyechan50 Subaru’s is easily one of the most life changing stories. Kanaka and Marine are up there.
Haachama is on a recovery after the Australia arc, but uhh…. Wow the Haatons are a powerful crowd considering the mental training arc she’s giving them. But I’m side tracking.
Hololive is a leg up for many of these girls and those “little miss company hire” haters don’t understand the struggle it takes to stand out in this field.
You guys might not consider this one, but I think one of the most extreme case is Aqua.
Not to offend her or anything, but can you imagine how her life would be without Hololive? She's basically an antisocial hikikomori and I can't even imagine her working as a 'salaryman'.
I’m sure if Aqua was never hired by Cover she would be a Hikikimori still living with her mom probably without a job.
Kowa! Lui-nee's experience in working for the office is scary. It makes me feel blessed on how strictly enforced the labor laws are in America when I was working in an office 8 to 5 office job. Though 2020 did a lot of bad things do to disease and all, I ended up having to leave that company. But Lui-nee's experience just sounds like it was awful. Again I feel blessed and I am glad Lui-nee is in a better company.
I can relate even as someone from the USA, my health decline from working those 6 years in my old job, I don't think i would live very long being there.
She's a friccking saint...
On a serious note though, i am so glad that all of that is in the past. T^T Must protect lui-nee
Oof. One of those sad "I can relate" moments. But she's okay these days it seems. ❤️
"One company for a lifetime" this is like the most Asian thing ever, especially if your family has track record of being all doctors, lawyers, engineers and public servant. the head of the clan which is usually the grandparents would insist their kids(your parents) that their kids should also be in the same field or such.
I am very fortunate that I'm born in Germany (with Chinese background). My parents don't understand why I'm always quitting my job for almost every two years. And they don't have any high degree. They think that I'm not doing great at my job. But the truth is: I'm getting more salary each time I'm changing the company (except the times when I get a decent increase)
The whole, "Oh! So you're a job-hopper, eh?" is still a huge stigma supposedly in Japan. Many prospective employers in Japan are so blind they can care less if you were tortured every day in your last job or not, in their eyes they believed Lui's parents' philosophy of "1 company for life", but I think her parents incorrectly adapted, or failed to adapt, such an old idea from 100+ years ago in Japan when a person DID work their entire life in a certain trade, back when companies were less common and the independent-lone-tradesman was very common, in addition to those who worked in a company (working a trade) stayed around at that company....but there were so few companies back then! This is how a Japanese tradition that has failed to adapt to modern work in a modern Japanese has failed so many of them, causing overwork and mental health issues, and suicides, while so many are afraid of not conforming until it breaks *them* personally.
The Diet passed laws to stop this overwork BS, but like so many things they pass, unless there's stricter enforcement at last, nothing will change---and that's a very sad outcome for modern Japan. 😢
Karoshi, right?
That explains why she slept just only 2-3 hours like what Chloe said.
Oh poor Lui :(
I'm glad she said she's happy now!
Good for her, that she's where she is now. From all accounts, the only way you can say she's in a black company now is in her lore, and that's not even that much.
And to think she was one of the few lucky ones who managed to escape that environment, while god knows how many others are still stuck there...
Luiが言うようなsuper hard workに加えて、「サービス残業(service overtime work)＝overtime work without pay」というbad habitもある。
ただ、for the last about 10 years でillegalになってきている。At least, no one I know is like that these days.
I agree with Senchou, Lui must have been highly competent on her field. Sadly, her superiors abused it and overworked her. I bet they also took credits for all Lui's work.
This type of shit done by those people is what making a lot of competent people become disillusioned with their job and life.
I need to hug Lui right now
"One company for a lifetime" sounds like the same garbage my grandparents used to parrot. "Company loyalty". God damn I really hope for a shift in work culture for USA, and especially in JP.
It was different time for your Grandparents, people who stayed at one place got promoted. They could potentially work their way up from sweeping floors to running half the company with a little luck, hard work and time invested. That doesn't happen anymore, a company hires you to sweep the floor you'll still be sweeping the same floor 40 years later. There just isn't ANY reason for workers to have 'loyalty' anymore in the modern working world. Things have changed and many 'Grandparents' don't understand those changes.
@@lucasriley874 Exactly what I'm saying. They don't move on with the times. Companies in the USA still bank on exploiting that kind of mindset too. The problem is people like that are heads of companies in JP.
@@BRBingeDrinker Japanesse companies are also still big on hiring within. Specifically in the gaming sector, the majority of big name CEOs and executives for say nintendo currently where promoted internally, either directly from within the company or from affilated ones like hall or game freak.
It's why the quality of pokemon dropped like a rock their for abit, the dev team and leadership during the GBA-DS era was all hired into nintendo and promoted to executive posts.
The difference is Black Companies are designed to exploit the fuck out of that, but they infact are not the norm for JP companies and thats why their so predator as it preys on how he society functions and acts like a parasite within an otherwise largely functional structure.
I'm mixed because I hate the interview process. I hate changing my resume for every single company submission I do. That's why when I do get hired I feel grateful to being hired. But I wouldn't remain grateful if I was exploited. But for me it's hard getting jobs in the first place. So when I do get a job I'm thankful for it and if it is a hard job to do that's tough on mental and physical, I'll stick it out as long as possible because I dread the application process. If I had more confidence in my ability to sell myself I would be hopping jobs a lot more often until i could settle into one I won't end up hating in the long run.
@@Haiyami I have a much different outlook. If I'm being treated like shit, i'll quit. I've left a lot of jobs because of just shitty management and I don't regret it at all.
I keep a template of my resume, it's easy to edit and print. Although cover letters have to be written out for each place I apply to, but it's not a big deal to me. The interview process is always pretty hard for me though.
My mental and physical health over a job any damn day tbh. I'm glad I'm able to make that choice still.
I imagine there are many in the chat going through the same workplace abuse right now.
Lui has nerves of steel , there are people working in regular companies contemplating suicide because work is hard for them .
I was one of those people. The job wasn't glamorous nor was it what I wanted/expected.
Oh man. Im glad shes doing better now tho
that is horrible... uuhh.. I can't imagine going through something like that in my life. I'll always make sure to check on every contracts and NDA that I signed so that companies won't be able to bind me for years.
This turned out to be quite a collab (Two older sisters meeting up)
I just hope they both always happy from now on
Reminds me of a friend who dedicated her life to work, made her customers happy at the cost of her happiness,her time, her health both physically and mentally. In the end she grew old alone and was abandoned by said company because she fell sick from over work. Meanwhile kaigainikis have such concept of work life balance its kinda….
That's one of the big reasons I don't wanna live in Japan. Visiting as a tourist, yes, but I doubt I'd click in with the work culture there.
Don't know how it is in Japan, but in the US you're holding yourself back if you don't switch employers every few years. Only way to reliably increase your pay.
no wonder some ppl choose death over living there, they have been taught that it is normal
Now we know that both of them old than other member ... 😆
the canine hologirls are still the oldest I think.
@@adminPAO1 the oldest is feline tho
Two oba San I mean Nee sans talking about their experiences working. Nice.
I feel that. You tried your best on the first company you enter and it's black company.
It's like you play game on the public server. But, opposite team are pros and teammates blame you for the cause.
I love lui and I'm glad marine has her now
Lui:
- Talks about black company: *Manual Sad*
- Someone mentions chicken: *Auto Sad* 😁
I’ve only had fairly extreme experiences with Japanese companies.
One had management which was mostly incompetent. Perhaps they tried to emulate ‘Western’ management practices. They couldn’t get much done well, things were often disorganized, and there was often insufficient critical thought applied to ideas before implementation
Another was family owned I believe, or at least had strong roots. Management wasn’t optimal either, but things were better thought out and I thought meetings were productive and tasks were clear and assigned to the appropriate people.
For perspective, some of the best management I’ve experienced was from 20 some year old college students.
0:25 Marine's face: ok
0:27 Also Marine's face: o.o
.
Villain origin story tier. Makes sense that she joined HoloX in lore now. lol
Its experiances you have like these that when they tell you "youll have to work a 10 hour shift" youre like im vacationing
Damn, how'd Lui even find time and energy to work towards Hololive.
God, I can't imagine living like that for more than a week. These ladies are strong ; w ;
Literally work for 20 hours holy sheesh
I've worked for a companyblike that, only it was just me and the boss. And the boss did not want to do anything except drive around in his car.
Man i would never ever complain about my shitty work enviroment...
Someone Marine can properly relate with. XD
if you chat with someone you paid to be with, their stories will surprise you and know that the world isnt as forgiving as you think it is and sometimes its worse.
Kazama has no sense of direction? Wears mostly green? Samurai? Wait...
...if my memory is right, Zoro didn't have any siblings right? Or a child even?
Lui describing her genmates is so specific 😂 dmn marine use sad bgm right in kokoro
Must protect.
maybe one madlad hololive fans can actually track down that black company who abuse Lui chan that bad
it's a sad situation. but believe me. I'm not sad at all. I'm furious. how the hell a company runs like that
There is a Japanese proverb that says that a capable hawk hides its claws. In the end, people who are young and talented beyond their age are forced to do all sorts of tasks no matter what department they join. He's too talented, and there aren't enough people, so he's relied on, but conveniently, he's used like a jack-of-all-trades. Therefore, in the Japanese workplace, it is wise to hide your true abilities.
Certain swordsmaster lack sense of direction? Job changing Pirates? Blackcomp? Hawk that take care of swordmaster ? Hmm doesn't ring a bell . Gomen
**hugs Lui-Lui**
You must get burnt out real fast working like that…
3:38 Iroha is zoro's descendant? 👀
Why are you so nonchalant?
I think it's because of your reaction, Kaichou.
Lui nee 😭
2hours? so if many worker retire at same time Im sure the company will done
"ah yeah, I had to a month's worth of work in a day but it wasn't THAT black of a company" guys I think Lui is broken.
So HoloX isn’t a BLACK company just dark gray.
The only black thing about HoloX is the company logo 😆
I think the managerial in HoloX is too PON to be a black company as seen how four out of five of the elite members got bullied by an angelic devil in board games.
when you trying to rebuild black company inside hololive but the light too strong like there sora, subaru, TMT and even yagoo
@@Suzushiirou at this point KFP is more like a black hole company where none of the employee can't escape.
my brother also work in black company too once. but instead giving ton of workload, his job is to scam other company (partner) . they prolong their project to make a provider tower but make it delayed as much as possible . my brother name really getting bad (although he only work there for 1 month +)
idk why he accept a job that in manager position without any experience + different with his degree. i already told him its a scam.
so they weren't in the same company
Lui is such a sweetheart..
Man this sound rough. Black company really is no joke people can die from overworking like this.
*HoloX is a black company*
Ah yes, Towa-sama’s journey to conquer HoloX makes sense now
Black company or not, trash client is always there. Sometimes, I had to do 3 times the work amount for the same operation but for different clients, they like to add some stupid requirement sometimes
What is a "black company".
is a type of company in Japan where you work long hours and normally dont get paid well.
Can google it...but in general its a company that exploits the employees by usually overworking them
a bad company who exploits their employee excessively (binding them via contracts etc)
they can somehow operate within legal law
Thanks for the explanation. I can't reply to all who awnser so this public one will do!
It's not that different from your average non-unionized american company, where they can fire you without a reason or overwork you without extra payment, except that the labor laws on America are much more lenient in favor of the employee.
Man this is probably out of the blue but goddamn if I love Senchou
anyone knows how long she worked for that black company? also what does the company do in terms of service etc
Lui worked as much as 3 people, and received salary for 1. Just because she can quit and find another job do not mean she doesn't needed to be protected
3 people + higher-ups + receiving complaints + L + ratio
Why good sword man have no sense of direction.
When you survie some of the worst company atmosphere in the role, it is understandable that she lost the ability to complain about anything, tbh.
Wow it sure is nice that she doesnt work for one anym- oh wait.
No body :
At Chat : "Hay Kak Aku orang indo"
bngst ngakak we 😂
🥀
so does marine ever told his blackcomp story?
wait what does black company mean here?
Basically a company that exploit workers like make them work over time and without extra pay or free time.
Wow japan sure scary
Can someone elaborate what exactly it is that stops Japanese people from saying no? I know there are significant cultural differences, but I still fail to comprehend why people do not stand up for themselves when things get this bad. Do they not have unions in Japan?
I have had to stand up for myself several times in my career and it has always worked out in my favour. Being assertive in a calm rational way really helps your career.
I don't know Japan really well if I can imagine...
If I was growing up with everyone telling me to work insanely hard without complaining...
and I was watching around me and see everyone do exactly that...
Maybe I would have done the same.
If you don't know better, you think this is normal.
Is mostly culture that anything, there’s this stuff about being loyal to the company and do everything you can for them etc. is so ingrained that even if those practices are illegal most workers are never going to say anything because that’s “lack of loyalty”, the good thing is that black companies have been declining and people mostly young people are getting aware that that style of company culture is just bullshit, so probably in a few more generations black companies would be something super rare.
Sexual harrasment and thus most of the girl that fall victim ended up in porn industry.
Bruh Japan gotta change
BTW, I think "black company" leaves a translation gap. I don't think that term is used in english, at least I have never heard it before. Not sure there is a good translation for the concept. I guess we would call them "shitty companies". In the IT world specifically, there is a term "WITCH" which is an acronym of the 5 largest and most known consulting agencies known for bad working conditions, and sub-par pay, but that's now universal to all industries.
The fact that there is still these black companies in Japan is the reason why no foreigners like to work there. I wanted to go Japan to work but hearing all these thing make me so scared that I joined a black company and they hold me hostage. So scary. Also the mum say one company whole life is so bullshit. Don’t do that unless the company is very very good to you in term of welfare and remuneration. Please Japan change your ways
Black companies only work because of the culture in Japan. They bow to peer pressure and feel bad if they are doing things different from co-workers.
I would go home after 8 hours. Peer pressure or your bosses giving you more work, or even shit work? Thats fine, whatever you want me to do in 8 hours. But im gone after that.
When People talk about black companies they always associate it with Japan, but what crazy is in term of workers right and abusive work environment, which is also translated to "black companies" environment, USA is the worst aka at the bottom rank with Japan came as 2nd worse only slightly better. Unpaid leave, unpaid vacation, "almost" fulltime positions, underpaid staffs, relying on tipping etc etc etc