Voldemort VS Grindelwald | BATTLE ARENA | Harry Potter | Fantastic Beasts: The Secrets of Dumbledore
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- Опубліковано 7 вер 2024
- Two of the most powerful dark wizards of all time in Harry Potter are going head to head! Voldemort vs Grindelwald! Who comes out on top? Well lets find out!
Voldemort - 0:15
Grindelwald - 2:19
Fight Breakdown - 4:32
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ezra miller hogwarts legacy fantastic beasts 3 harry potter game jk rowling
Grindelwald is basically Thanos in this universe... He believes that the evil he is going to commit is actually for the greater good...
Agreed, and that makes Voldemort Dormmamu
Well, Thanos from the movies. Thanos' atrocities are due to his own selfish reasons in the comics.
Vasilis Green Grindewald should not be compared to Thanos
@@spicygummyworms76 well, I don't know, Gellert Grindelwald seems a bit like the MCU version of thanos
Thanos xD purple fatman was interesting in infinity war...in end game he's just a random rage guy that wants to kill all...
Whoever is more powerful its pretty obvious that Grindelwald is way cooler and more bad ass, an actual likable villain.
You shouldn't like a villian
yeah.true
I agree with u!
Definitely
@@affebanane3039 You should stfu
Voldemort duels using rage, hate and aggression. Grindelwald is a tactical thinker and seems to be two steps ahead of his opponents.
imagine the whole wizarding world never said the his name... also imagine voldemort legit was up to ranks with dumbledore while he had the elder wand. everyone doesnt realize dumbledore has the elder wand
Neither was better in my opinion. Both had their strengthes and weaknesses. Grindelwald was a calculated thinker and careful planner. However in battle he uses raw power and offensive spells to eliminate his foes whether it be by explosions or burning them alive. He was a monster when it came to pure offense. Voldemort was a rash and extreme person who had no love and cared little about morals. He ended up doing so many inhumane things like posession, splitting his soul into objects, instantly killing people with the kadavra curse.
So I think voldemort would wins in the magic department, he doesn't use raw power but his list of spells in his arsenal just far outweigh anything i've yet to see grindelwald have. His knowledge of dark magic goes into things like curses, posession, holocruxes, etc.
If we're talking influence grindelwald wins. He had too many countries in fear of him and had follows across europe and america. Voldemort could barely keep britain under wraps.
If we're talking strategy it's tough, both seem to use rather convoluted and complex plans that people had a hard time seeing coming or operating against. I think grindelwald just comes ahead because he fooled so many countries and even prevented dumbledore from challenging him directly for a long time.
Voldemort took Ministry of magic, thats careful planning. He also took Hogwards. Its stupid to just say he is just about rage
Fall you know Grindelwald can use the kadavra curse too right? His followers and he did it in the new Fantastic beasts and they could do it without even speaking a word all you see is a green flash and they’re dead, and the spell he created with the blue fire was way more powerful than anything Voldemort did Grindelwalds weakness was that he still loved he still cared and didn’t want the muggles gone he just wanted to live in a world he didn’t have to hide, Grindelwald and Dumbledore loved eachother and that most likely means Grindelwald knows just about as much as Dumbledore, the only thing in Voldemort’s favour was that he held his own with a Dumbledore that had the elder wand and that Dumbledore feared him more than Grindelwald but think Dumbledore was very old when dealing with Voldemort and Dumbledore feared Voldemort more because he knew there was nothing he could do to change his mind along side the power he had but he has an effect on Grindelwald as they loved eachother and thinks he can fix Grindelwald
@@StaliasFable First of all, It's been 4 fucking weeks. Please let this die already, i'm not even arguing about this anymore. Secondly, yeah plenty of people could use the forbidden curses. Infact enough people know how to do them to the point where they have to be outright banned, infact harry learned one. Let that sink in. I wasn't saying that it was strictly a voldemort exclusive spell, infact most of his death eaters knew how to use all three or atleast one. And secondly you should take the movie with a grain of salt because the movies aren't even close to be the same as the books and by book canon, grindelwald is less powerful than voldemort, and this is even backed by JKR herself. By movie feats, newt is able to defend himself better against grindelwald than an entire group of aurors working together, but by book feats newt is complete dropout who can't do shit. By movie feats bellatrix is a powerful wizard, by book feats she is the most powerful deatheater, who is able to duel three adult wizards at once and is personally trained by voldemort. I think using the movies as feats isn't exactly the most solid argument you can have. There is a huge disparity in the books and movies.
Also using dumbledore's age as an argument is a realistic one, but it's still headcanon as there is nothing to imply he got weaker. Trying to argue Grindelwald was more powerful at all is already stepping into headcanon, so while you are free to your personal belief that he was stronger than voldemort, know that this is headcanon and both the books and the author say otherwise.
I say Grindelwald. Voldemort was the greatest dark wizard, the most powerful dark magician, but Grindelwald was more open minded and skilled in a wider variety of areas, second only to Dumbledore. I agree Voldemort has knowledge of these areas as well, but he neglected many fields of magic due to his disdain of them.
Yeah he couldn't of killed to because he had chains on his hands
stacy killman what?
He couldn't of killed tom because he was locked up and chains was on his hand
VulKus
In regard to their magical skill and knowledge, Albus Dumbledore, who duelled both of them regarded Lord Voldemort's magical knowledge as more extensive than that of any other wizard.
Albus Dumbledore: "I knew that Voldemort's knowledge of magic is perhaps more extensive than any wizard alive".
-Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix.
Dumbledore also considered Voldemort to have been more dangerous than Gellert Grindelwald.
"Riddle was perfectly ready to believe that he was to use the word, special", said Dumbledore. "Did you know then?", asked Harry. "Did I know that I had just met the most dangerous dark wizard of all time?", said Dumbledore. "No, I had no idea that he was to grow up to be what he is".
-Harry Potter and the Half-blood Prince.
There was hardly anything to indicate that Dumbledore was more powerful than Voldemort as they fought to a stalemate, while Dumbledore wielded the Elder wand. Dumbledore also required Fawkes' assistance to avoid Voldemort's killing curse. For all that we know, Dumbledore could have died had Fawkes not been there. Meanwhile, Dumbledore defeated Grindelwald, while Grindelwald wielded the Elder wand. There isn't really anything at all to indicate that Grindelwald could have defeated Voldemort. Voldemort has vastly more impressive feats.
While Dumbledore considered voldemort as the most powerful DARK wizard of all time, it would make sense though if Dumbledore didn't consider grindlewald as a dark wizard, because grindlewald wouldn't fight for the fun of it, he was believing all along that this was all for the greater good
he’s still considered a dark wizard
I would describe Voldemort as the most vicious wizard of all time, but I would consider Grindlewald to be the superior and the most powerful because even though Voldemort had the ability to split his soul, Gellert surpassed him out of everything else, Voldemort is known his ferocity and his murderous nature, but Gellert was the more strategic, knowledgeable, skilled dueler both offense and defense, and the only known wizard to ever put up challenge forth that would make Dumbledore fight so hard that Voldemort never could.
Voldemort is literally stated
The greatest dark wizard of all time - COS
The most feared dark Wizard for a hundred years - POA
The most powerful dark wizard in a century - GOF
and there you literally got the answer
The most powerful dark wizard of all time - HBP
and there you got it again
on the list of most powerful dark wizards of all time - DH
The most powerful dark wizard of all time Pottermore which JK herself writes on and gives information.
I guess that is just her saying stuff? lul
Then His dueling abilities are matched with Dumbledore's and Dumbledore was said to be slightly more skilled than Grindelwald.
Then Grindelwald also lost to Dumbledore even tho he had the elder wand where Voldemort matched Dumbledore who had the Elder wand and he even had more "power" as of that state as he has had more time to get stronger and wiser.
There are countless other accomplishments that put Voldemort far ahead of Grindelwald, but for that, just read the books.
he’s also indisputably stated multiple times by the author herself to be the single most powerful Dark Wizard who ever lived.
Dumbledore even said "Voldemort had powers I will never have" and Dumbledore said that Voldemort’s knowledge of magic is more extensive than any wizard alive. Voldemort does not understand only the magic related to love. Also, Grindelwald wanted the Resurrection Stone for an army of Inferi. Voldemort didn't need the Stone for it.
How much proof do ya need?
Kasper Hansen yes the greatest, not the most powerful, or most intelligent
@@tuireti3025
Voldemort > Grindelwald. It's a Harry Potter fact.
Grindewald didn’t use the cruciatus curse on Albus it was his younger brother Aberforth and it sparked the 3way duel
No
Ummm Grindelwald absolutely used the curse of Aberforth, not on Albus
I honestly have no idea how anyone can say that grindlewald is more powerful than Voldemort. It’s stated many times by canonical sources that Voldemort was the most powerful dark wizard of all time. This is not speculation, this cannon and cannot be argued against.
FANON: Grindelwald was the most powerful Dark Wizard ever. Stated in fanfictions.
CANON: Voldemort was the most powerful Dark Wizard ever. Stated in the books and Pottermore.
FANON: Dumbledore fought Voldemort whilst simultaneously restraining Harry and Bellatrix without much effort.
CANON: Dumbledore restraining Harry and Bellatrix before his epic duel with Voldemort. Then he fought Voldemort alone. Harry was protected by the statue. Dumbledore wasn’t distracted at all during the duel.
FANON: Dumbledore kicked Voldemort's ass without any effort in the Ministry.
CANON: Dumbledore and Voldemort were evenly matched. Voldemort was able to turn Dumbledore’s fiery rope into a snake and Dumbledore would have died if his phoenix not swallowed the Avada Kedavra. It was an epic duel with many spells and none of them did nothing to the other.
FANON: Dumbledore holding back against Voldemort. Dumbledore did his best against Grindewald.
CANON: Dumbledore didn't holding back against Grindelwald and Voldemort. He didn't try to kill Voldemort because it was useless (Horcruxes) and he didn't try to kill Grindelwald because he was his friend/lover. Dumbledore didn't use Avada Kedavra, that's all, but he fought seriously. Dumbledore and Voldemort were both aiming for different goals. Their duel was very different from Dumbledore vs Grindelwald. It was just a matter of timing. Voldemort knew that his time was limited, Dumbledore told him when he arrived that the Aurors were on their way. He knew that he did not have time to defeat Dumbledore in a battle of attrition, so he tried to enter Harry’s mind in the hope that Dumbledore would kill the boy and accomplish the objective for him. As for Dumbledore, he did his best to keep Voldemort there, or capture him, so finally the Ministry representatives would have see Voldemort. A real duel between Voldemort and Dumbledore would be very different.
FANON: Young Dumbledore is more stronger than old Dumbledore. Confirmed.
CANON: We don't know for sure, but Dumbledore may very well have grown as a wizard since 1945. He also has more knowledge, experience and the most powerful wand.
FANON: Voldemort is good only with Dark Magic. Grindelwald has more knowledge than him.
CANON: Dumbledore said that Voldemort’s knowledge of magic is more extensive than any wizard alive. Voldemort does not understand only the magic related to love. Also, Grindelwald wanted the Resurrection Stone for an army of Inferi. Voldemort didn't need the Stone for it.
FANON: Voldemort ran away from the Aurors because he was scared while Grindelwald fought them like a badass.
CANON: Voldemort ran away because he didn’t want anybody else to know he was back. He wanted to act in secret. Also, is not the wisest idea to duel against the Aurors and Dumbledore, all at once. Grindelwald fought the Aurors and he got captured. Ah, Grindelwald didn't beat the Aurors. He was just deflecting the spells back to them.
FANON: Voldemort was feared only in Britain and his reign was only in Britain while Grindelwald terrorized all the world. No one cares about Voldemort.
CANON: Voldemort reign was only in Britain because it was his priority, but he was feared in all the world (it was confirmed by Rowling herself in an interview). Also, in Goblet of Fire, everyone ran away when they saw the Dark Mark. It was the Quidditch World Cup, so they weren’t only British wizards. I guess that he was feared in all the world, yes. Also, Dumbledore choose to fight against Grindelwald and break the blood pact only in 1945. He was never really involved with his war. With Voldemort, he always actively fought against him and he did his best to stop him. Also, Grindelwald took advantage from the WW2.
FANON: Voldemort was scared of Dumbledore while Grindelwald wasn't scared of him at all.
CANON: Grindelwald never attacked Britain because Dumbledore (he feared him, blood pact or no). Voldemort fought a war under his nose and Dumbledore was never able to stop him. Both of them feared him, for different reason.
Voldemort and Grindelwald are pretty much in the same league. Both really powerful and talented. But Voldemort is the strongest Dark Wizard because this is what the books show and say.
This is gold.
Someone has read the books. Finally.
Finally! Anyone saying Grindelwald could beat Voldemort is an Idiot
@@rotzloffel1567 of course he can beat Voldemort with the elder wand!! He is as close to Dumbledore on skill as anyone in history, so of course, if Dumbledore can stop voldemort at the ministry when he was like a 100, so can Grindelwald.
ESTYAK ISLAM
Multiple sources confirm that Lord Voldemort was more powerful than any other dark wizard, including Gellert Grindelwald.
Harry had somehow survived a curse from the greatest dark sorcerer of all time, Lord Voldemort-Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets.
Harry had been a year old the night that Voldemort, the most powerful dark wizard for a century, a wizard who had been gaining power steadily for eleven years arrived at his house, and killed his father and mother-Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire.
In regard to their magical skill and knowledge, Albus Dumbledore who duelled both of them regarded Voldemort's magical knowledge as more extensive than that of any other wizard.
Albus Dumbledore: "I knew that Voldemort's knowledge of magic is perhaps more extensive than any wizard, alive"-Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix.
There wasn't really anything to suggest that Dumbledore had degenerated by the time of the Harry Potter books so it would only make sense for him to have simply been more experienced and magically knowledgeable. There was hardly anything to indicate that Dumbledore was more powerful than Voldemort as they fought to a stalemate, while Dumbledore wielded the Elder wand. Dumbledore wasn't outright holding back against Voldemort during their duel in the Ministry Atrium. He simply acknowledged that he had no intention of killing him. There's a difference between not intending to kill an opponent and going easy on them. Dumbledore also required Fawkes' assistance to avoid Voldemort's killing curse. Had Fawkes not been present, Dumbledore most likely could have died. Dumbledore couldn't defeat Voldemort in combat, because combat was where Voldemort thrived. Meanwhile, Dumbledore defeated Grindelwald, while Grindelwald wielded the Elder wand. There's nothing at all to suggest that Grindelwald would defeat Voldemort. Voldemort had vastly more impressive feats. Therefore, Voldemort > Dumbledore > Grindelwald.
I'd say Grindlewald would win. He's smarter, more skilled, has a wider variety of magic, and his blue dragons could eat Voldemort.
Under normal circumstances: Voldemort.
At the height of their powers: Grindelwald.
What would normal circumstances be?
@@lukahj Yeah
Given all the evidence in the books I would say hands down that Voldemort was the most powerful of the two.
Voldemort gotis getting rekt by Dumbledore who was only slightly above grindelwald
@@theshadow5352
Can you provide a quote from the books that indicates Dumbledore actually *won* the duel at the Ministry?
And yes, Dumbledore stated that he was only slightly more skilled than Grindelwald but that doesn't mean it's impossible for Voldemort to be in-between Dumbledore and Grindelwald in terms of magical prowess.
@@villekuismin277 ikr
Dumbledore not only didn't *win*
He almost got killed if not for Fawkes
Look what Grindelwald can do then look what Voldemort can do Voldemort has one spell that kill one person at a time Grindelwald has a load of spells that can kill a lot of people at one time and Grindelwald took on how many aurors at one time, in Order of the Phoenix when aurors came to the Ministry Voldemort ran away and Voldemort kill Grindelwald when he didn't have a wand or used magic in over 50 years so I say Grindelwald could have killed Voldemort in his sleep.
Ville Kuismin Agreed. Also, no one considers the possibility that Dumbledore was simply being modest about comparing himself to Grindelwald, and that he was always quite a bit stronger but held back because of his conflictions.
It really irritates me sometimes when I see all these answers that are clearly written from the perspective of someone who just loves the character of Dumbledore so much they ignore what was actually written. This battle was not a clear curb stomp by Dumbledore, not by a long shot.
Lets examine what actually happened:
-Voldemort apparated in front of the fountain, fired a killing curse which Dumbledore dodged via apparating himself near the fountain
-Dumbledore fires a powerful spell at Voldemort which Voldemort blocks by conjuring a silver shield. The spell hits it but doesn't damage the shield, making a gong sound only, which leads Voldemort to deduce Dumbledore isnt trying to kill him.
-Voldemort is surprised by this and tries again with a killing curse which Dumbledore's animated centaur intercepts and is destroyed.
-Dumbledore tries to contain Voldemort using a fiery rope that wraps around him, however Voldemort transfigures this into a Snake which he sends back towards Dumbledore whilst immediately apparating near the fountain and firing another killing curse - both the snake and the killing curse are then about to hit Dumbledore simultaneously however he is saved by the timely intervention of Fawkes the phoenix. SO basically Dumbledore would have been killed right there if not for Fawkes.
-Dumbledore then uses the water from the fountain to trap Voldemort in a water prison, but Voldemort eventually manages to disapparate out of it. At this point Dumbeldore is said to be showing the first look of alarm during the duel. After this the duel essentially ends as Voldemort tries to possess Harry.
Now I’m in total agreement that Dumbledore is the strongest wizard ever. But Voldemort is in the same tier with him and he showed significant skill and prowess during the duel and proved himself more than capable of responding to anything Dumbledore could throw at him. He also nearly killed Dumbledore twice, who was saved only due to the intervention of the animated centaur and Fawkes.
Voldemort deserves recognition for just how much of a match he was for Dumbledore in my opinion. After all, Dumbeldore was the master of the Elder wand. I don’t think many fans give Voldemort his due as a duelist. His mastery of magic was on a similar level to Dumbledore’s and he is regarded as the most powerful dark wizard in history for a reason.
Ah, Voldemort>Grindelwald. Stated in both the books and Pottermore.
Finally normal person, not blinded with new fantastic beasts franchise
Naw he couldn't beat Harry so I give it to Grindelwald
Titan Fitness
Only because he attempted to use the Elder wand against its true master and Lily Evans Potter's protection over Harry Potter ran in Lord Voldemort's veins. Therefore, as long as Voldemort lived Harry couldn't die. Voldemort was correct in assuming that had they duelled on "skill alone" he would have easily defeated Harry.
Titan Fitness well Dumbledore couldn’t defeat Draco Malfoy either so it seems a lot of powerful wizards are brought down by angsty teenage boys. Voldemort stomps against Grindelwald
@@SarastistheSerpent he didn't even battle Draco...he saved him but even then Snape had to pull the trigger. Yea Voldemort has greater raw power but I give the fight to the smarter wizard.. Grindelwald
Grindewald seems to be a whole nother beast when it comes to dueling. We also don’t know the full story of his duel with albus. Those two loved each other and who’s to say grindewald didn’t come to some sense and “surrender”
It would have mentioned that. He didn't. He was very capable of putting his emotions aside for his ambition's.
@@dakotablount251 books had no reason to mention it. They weren’t about the duel. The fight was a “myth” to most people. How many actually witnessed what happened?
@@childish1414 it would be most likely be mentioned at some point...as the duel was mentioned multiple times...and Elphias Doge does mention eyewitnesses being terrified and awestruck during the duel...showing that there were witnesses and that Grindelwald most likely didnt surrender...also Grindelwald thought that the ends justified the means so he wouldnt "come to some sense"
Dumbledore>Voldemort>Grindelwald
Voldemort was immortal and an even match for Dumbledore while he was using the Elder Wand.Grindlewald was defeated by Dumbledore while Grindlewald was using the Elder Wand.Voldemort was far more powerful.
Skull Raven
Yeah, pretty much.
No
Dumbledore never uses the full power of the elder wand also Grindelwald duel lasted longer
teamsonic channel
What makes you say that Dumbledore's duel with Grindelwald lasted longer than his duel with Voldemort?
@@CulturalMarxist4985 their duel last longer than 17 hours than his duel with voldemort
Voldemort ist the most powerfull dark wizard in this universe. Grindelwald is the second most powerfull darkest wizard. This are facts from the book. I think in 8/10 Battles Voldemort would win.
Just the fact that Voldemort couldn't even handle a little teenager and couldn't conquer a damn high school is enough to doubt his skills compared to Grindelwald
Grindelwald is nothing compared to Voldemort
Wizards don't get weaker with age
Professor tofty and Griselda marchbanks were both Dumbledore's OWL inspectors
They were also, Harry's OWL Eaminners
That makes them atleast 130 yrs old
15 years older than Dumbledore was in the fight
Also, both of them could walk, talk, write Editorial Articles against Fudge and could conduct an exam at 130, so Dumbledore sure could flick his wand, it's not like he is doing king Fu
You know any muggles who can even walk at 130 ?
Wizards are different
And evidently, their memories are unaffected
Albus Himself says, his memory is as good as it has always been
The only possible compromise I would accept would be "Slower Reflexes"
That was compensated by Fawkes saving Albus in the fight
And bs on Albus "Protecting" Harry
Voldemort didn't even Touch Harry after Dumbledore arrived
So Albus had no disadvantages at all
Voldemort ?
Let me think....
Fight in the Fucking Ministry of Magic
Being Minutes behind the Entire Auror office arrived might put pressure, don't you think ?
And the minor minor Fact that Albus had the Most Powerful Wand in the World which can do the impossible like say, mending a broken wand that is stated by olivander to be "Beyond Magical Repair"
So, who has the screws on who ?
And yet Dumbledore couldn't do shit to Voldemort
Voldy neutralised all of the spells thrown his way
Horcruxes don't prevent Albus from Capturing voldy, do they ?
Even if he can't kill him
He can overpower him right ?
( Like he did to an Elderwand enhanced Gellert Grindelwald in 1945 )
If Albus was SO POWERFUL, why didn't he CAPTURE Voldemort, extract locations of Horcruxes from him, send his Army of Over Qualified Hogwarts teachers to find and destroy them ?
He could then Kill Voldemort at his leisure
Albus had all the time in the world
It was Voldemort who was in a Hurry
Harry and Bella were a non factors in the fight
Harry was "Pushed back" and kept there and Bella was "thrust to the ground" and lay there struggling by 2 separate statues throughout the whole fight
So, the only reason Albus didn't defeat Voldemort was BECAUSE HE COULDN'T
Albus had ALWAYS been weaker than Tom
It was the Elderwand that he had since 1945
Tom's 7th year, which kept the score
And Dumbs crushes Grindelwald without the Elderwand
Which means, Voldy>>>Grindelwald
Kodukula Anirudh
Yeah, that pretty much sums it up.
@@CulturalMarxist4985 😀😀
I would give it to Voldemort. Both are very powerful but Grindelwald’s advantage comes for his personality and influence. Dumbledore himself called Voldy the greatest dark wizard of all time.
I mean... Grindelwald was defeated by Dumbledore in his prime we still do not know how, voldemort got ganked by a 1 and 17 year old and couldn't defeat Dumbledore in his 100's which no the elder wand does absolutely not compensate for, the wand makes your spells more powerful it does not make you more agile or enhance your reflexes which are basically shot by the time you turn 80... I think Dumbledore meant that he was feared and was a great wizard not that he was good at fighting per say.
Point is, we actually see Grindelwald accomplishing stuff and be good in a fight! Holding out against massive odds against him and have hours long fights, we see voldemort hanging himself there against 3 opponents and losing to a 17/18 year old in what? 20 minutes at most the final duel?
Sorry but it is quite clear... Voldie might have better knowledge and more oompf behind him, but you can be less powerful and still be the better duelist... case and point: Harry and the gang fighting and defeating SEVERAL death eaters that were at least auror level as children!
Agreed
Voldemort almost KILLED an Elderwand welding Albus Dumbledore in about 2 minutes into their duel if not for Fawkes DESPITE being in a hurry to leave before the ENTIRE AUROR OFFICE arrived
Grindewald, though powerful, lost to Albus Dumbledore when HE had the Elderwand
Lord Voldemort >= Elderwand enhanced Albus Dumbledore >> Normal Dumbledore >= Elderwand enhanced Gellert Grindelwald >> Normal Grindelwald >> others
IT IS QUITE CLEAR THAT DUMBLEDORE DID NOT BECOME WEAK WITH AGE, HIS NEWT EXAMINER'S WERE ALSO HARRY'S OWLS EXAMINER'S, MAKING THEM ATLEAST 130
They could walk, talk and conduct examinations
Harry remarked several times that "ALBUS HAD THE STRENGTH OF A MUCH YOUNGER MAN "
BATHILIDA BAGSHOT was the GREAT AUNT OF Gellert Grindelwald, she was 160-190 years when she died
IT IS QUITE CLEAR THAT WIZARDS DON'T BECOME WEAK WITH AGE LIKE MUGGLES WOULD
Dumbledore Could dive into the icy lake in the middle of the night and swim with "a perfect breast stroke and the grace and agility of a much younger man..."
So Albus fans, cut the bullshit
Lord Voldemort would crush Dumbledore without the Elderwand, prime or not
He would Crush grindewald prime or Not, Elderwand or not !
And that's according to the books
( I don't care if movie grindewald crushes Voldemort under his boot, I only care about the books )
@@Phoenix-King-ozai Voldemort aka Tom riddle would kill Grindelwald
@@Phoenix-King-ozai And you are right about Voldemort even more powerful than Master Dumbledore i agree
Char The Zombiehound there is so much wrong in what you wrote. It’s clear you’ve not read the books. Sorry, canon>fanon. Voldemort>Grindelwald. That’s just a fact.
Wait, if elder wand wielding Grindelwald couldn't beat Dumbledore, how is he the better duelist if Voldemort dueled elder wand wielding Dumbledore and lived to tell the tale?
The both lived throw there fight with Dumbledore but Grindelwald fight lasted longer because he's a better duelist and Voldemort knows more dark magic
Most people like Grindelwald the most and think he is the strongest because he is played by Johnny Depp and Depp is a great actor and made the character look cool. The truth is that Voldemort is, quote "the strongest dark wizard of all times". He was feared to the point of 99% of the wizarding community not having the balls to say his name. If you've only seen the movies I guess its normal to think Grindelwald is the most feared because we see people talking about him all the way over europe and america while voldemort story is more centered around harry.
I dont like grindelwald because is played of jonny depp...i have other reasons for that...
How many times do I have to say this. Fear is not equal to power.
Doesn't Matter People feared Voldemort more because he literally murdered you and your entire family if you didn’t join him or stood against him, Grindlewald seems to have a more political campaign vibe to his recruitment and only kills people who directly interact with him.
@@waseemsiddiqui3095 Well, how about reading the books ?
The books clearly state Voldemort would crush Grindelwald
Voldemort stalemated an Elderwand welding Albus Dumbledore and almost KILLED him if not for Fawkes
Dumbledore defeated an Elderwand welding Gellert Grindelwald
Therefore, Voldemort = Boot
Gellert Grindelwald = 🐜
Voldemort of course. The most powerful dark Wizard for 1000 years, almost defeating Dumbledore even when he had the Elder wand.
Dumbledore wasn't in his prime, elder wand or not. It's been stated while it helped albus keep some of his power it didn't keep it all
Timothy John
There isn't really anything to suggest that Dumbledore wasn't in his prime. It would only make sense for him to have been more experienced and magically knowledgeable.
So Bellatrix should never have died then :O "almost defeating Dumbledore" Oh you mean the scene in the movie or in the books where Dumbledore pretty mutch took Voldemort back to school? Dumbledore has never stated that Voldemort is the most powerfull wizard of all time... he stated "Dark wizard" if you dont know the difference then you should read the book again.
Adam Mikkelsen
Well, numerous sources confirm that Lord Voldemort was more powerful than any other dark wizard, including Gellert Grindelwald.
Harry had somehow survived a curse from the greatest dark sorcerer of all time, Lord Voldemort, whose name most witches and wizards still feared to speak.
-Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets.
Harry had been a year old the night that Voldemort, the most powerful dark wizard for a century, a wizard, who had been gaining power steadily for eleven years arrived at his house, and killed his father and mother.
-Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire.
Formerly known as Tom Marvolo Riddle and commonly referred to as he, who must not be named. The most powerful dark wizard of all time.
-Pottermore.
In regard to their magical skill and knowledge, Albus Dumbledore, who duelled both of them regarded Voldemort's magical knowledge as more extensive than that of any other wizard.
Albus Dumbledore: "I knew that Voldemort's knowledge of magic is perhaps more extensive than any wizard alive".
-Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix.
Dumbledore also considered Voldemort to have been more dangerous than Grindelwald.
"Riddle was perfectly ready to believe that he was to use the word, special", said Dumbledore. "Did you know then?", asked Harry. "Did I know that I had just met the most dangerous dark wizard of all time?", said Dumbledore. "No, I had no idea that he was to grow up to be what he is".
-Harry Potter and the Half-blood Prince.
There's hardly anything to indicate that Dumbledore was more powerful than Voldemort as they fought to a stalemate, while Dumbledore wielded the Elder wand. Dumbledore also required Fawkes' assistance to avoid Voldemort's killing curse. For all that we know, Dumbledore could have died had Fawkes not been there. Meanwhile, Dumbledore defeated Grindelwald, while Grindelwald wielded the Elder wand. There isn't anything at all to suggest that Grindelwald could have defeated Voldemort. Voldemort has vastly more impressive feats.
Grindelwald is better cause he’s played by Johnny depp
Voldermort ignored magic such as power of live yet Grindlewalde has a more all around balanced knowledge
Grindelwald may have been a much better person than Voldemort, but the Dark lord was a far better Wizard than Gellert Grindelwald ever was...and it wasn't even close
Dumbledore defeated Grindelwald who had the elder wand. So, dumbledore>Grindelwald. Voldemort almost kills Dumbledore twice in a duel and in the end it came to a "tie" and Dumbledore had the elder wand. So Dumbledore=Voldemort. If you take away the elder wand, Vol>Dum which then takes us to Vol>>>Grind. Some times, common sense can be so useful...
In the book its stats that Voldemort didn't tie those fights yet was overpowered so technically hes not equal to Dumbledore
Christian Phrenger
There wasn't really anything to suggest that Albus Dumbledore was more powerful than Lord Voldemort as they fought to a stalemate, while Dumbledore wielded the Elder wand. Dumbledore also required Fawkes' assistance to avoid Voldemort's killing curse. Had Fawkes not been present, Dumbledore most likely could have died. Dumbledore couldn't defeat Voldemort in combat as combat was where Voldemort thrived. Dumbledore only saw combat as a last resort, while Voldemort straight up enjoyed it. Meanwhile, Dumbledore defeated Gellert Grindelwald, while Grindelwald wielded the Elder wand. Therefore, Voldemort > Dumbledore > Grindelwald.
I salute your common sense Vasilis Green
You live in an age of fools
@@christianphrenger7902 yeah, he's far superior
@@gavinoconnorclarke5270 Dumbledore said, he and Grindelwald were evenly matched
He said that when recollecting their Duel 50 years after it happened
Did it ever occur to you ever persistent Grindelwald fans that maybe, just maybe Albus was including the Powerboost of the Elderwand when he said he and Grindelwald were evenly matched ?
If they were evenly matched without the Elderwand, how the hell would it be a Great duel ?
Grindelwald would have won easily
The Elderwand can do near impossible magic
Obviously Dumbledore was comparing his power with an Elderwand enhanced Gellert Grindelwald, he was afterall talking about it 50 years after the duel
The fact that Dumbledore was a shade more skillful fetched him the victory after a Great duel despite his power matching an Elderwand enhanced Grindelwald
The fact that Grindelwald only " matched" Dumbledore with the wand proves that Dumbledore and Voldemort are so far above avg Wizards, it's hilarious
And Grindelwald is clearly the third most powerful wizard in the series
Voldemort >= Elderwand enhanced Albus >> Albus >= Elderwand enhanced Gellert Grindelwald >> Grindelwald >>>others
This is a difficult one. The books show the actual Grindelwald which was much weaker than Voldemort. The films, to make them modern blockbusters, had to ramp up Grindelwald's power to make it exciting.
Someone who has sense
Just because someone is in one way in the novels doesn't mean it has to be in the other adaptations. Happened all the time with DC, Marvel and other books.
Vampire The Immortal God I never said that it doesn’t. I’m just saying that they had to increase Grindelwalds power to make the film more dramatic. Also, what are you doing replying to a 1 year old comment?
@@chrisclay9704 The age of a comment has nothing to do with his argument, the fuck?
Andre Ingram aka DJ Screw RIP yes it does, being woken up at 3am to a reply to my argument from over a year ago, that I don’t even follow or care about, it’s just annoying
I think if grindlewald and Voldemort fought at the same age it would be even but if they both fought in their prime Voldemort would win because Voldemort had more time to develop his skill before he was stopped
You realize in the The 5th movie DumbleDore was going easy on voldermort you can see he was controlling his spells and attacks cause he knew if he “killed” Voldermort he would come back in some sort of form, he didn’t want that to happen so he was just making Voldermort Waste time so the Order could come.
Going easy ? Lol
Lord Voldemort almost KILLED an Elderwand welding Albus Dumbledore in about 2 minutes into their duel if not for Fawkes DESPITE being in a hurry to leave before the ENTIRE Auror office arrived
It was Dumbledore's lucky day
@@Phoenix-King-ozaiwhich is easier shooting someone with a gun or trying to knock them out with it that's basically it. Dumbledore was still like trying his hardest and fighting at his best bit he wasn't trying to kill which is somewhat holding back
@@Phoenix-King-ozai nah lol, dumbledore was holding back against voldemort and voldemort outright stated it, either way voldemort still beats grindelwald
Guys, it is obvious that it is grindelwald
Because think about this for a moment, Voldemort have been defeated for the first time by a baby, but not grindelwald
All of the movies of Harry Potter we witnessed that Voldemort were constantly being defeated by three kids , again but not grindelwald
In the final movie of harry potter Voldemort was defeated by a young wizard that is considered to be a regular wizard (harry potter) and while Voldemort had the elder wand! , while grindelwald have been defeated by the strongest wizard of there time Albus Dumbledore
So tell me now realy, who is the most powerful dark wizard in the harry potter series? 😉
Voldermort was defeated by Harry because he literally gave him the power to do so, and underestimated him and Dumbledore.
And the author says herself that Voldemort was unquestionably the greatest dark wizard of all time, and Dumbledore calls him the most knowledgeable wizard alive.
@@jamessnowe1197 does that maked him the greatest dark wizard of all time?
While as grindelwald build his army and made sure that he has the power that he needs to defeat Dumbledore, and by recruiting Aurelius Dumbledore
So please think again 😉
@@jamessnowe1197 yes we of course should trust the writer's opinion in this matter, but even the writers opinion could be wrong, for example
Once a fan asked stan Lee who's the most powerful villain in marvel comics, he replied "galactus", and then an ongoing debate happend between him and the fans and turns out that he's wrong and that the strongest villain was "the one above all" so it is ok for the own creator of their own world the likes of stan Lee in marvel comics, or J.K. Rowling in the wizerding world, or J. R. R. Tolkien of lord of the rings, and etc...
It doesn't mean that her opinion is it, and its final.
Osama Yaghmour I don’t need to think again the author said so. There’s nothing to discuss. The person who wrote the books and created both characters clearly says it, in literally every book.
Voldemort almost KILLED an Elderwand welding Albus Dumbledore in about 2 minutes into their duel if not for Fawkes...
Grindelwald was too SCARED to fight Dumbledore when HE had the Elderwand and Dumbledore had an ordinary wand
Voldemort CRUSHES Grindelwald faster than Grindelwald can cry "What the f*** "
*blood pact as teenager
@@dariusgavin9765 This is just about the book versions mate
No comments from me on the movie versions untill the end of the 5th part
Voldemort was getting schooled by Dumbledore what are you on about
@@jasonblahafitness5492 you read the book in your life ?
Dumbledore couldn't do shit to Voldemort
Talk about school...
All he could do was almost get killed and got his ass saved by Fawkes
Maybe check the actual fight in the book before replying again ?
And then tell me if a word I said is wrong
And this is all about the books
None of the movie bs
@@Phoenix-King-ozai lmao Dumbledore was calmly walking up to vold throughout the duration of the fight. Get your head out of Voldemort's ass, Dumbledore was the most powerful wizard in history, non-negotiable.
Unfortunately, some fans of Harry Potter, haven’t actually read Harry Potter, and therefore often have no idea what they’re talking about when it comes to lore. As such, they think they’re fanon ideas count as actual canon. The most recurring idea recently has been this ridiculous fanfiction that Grindelwald is more powerful than Voldemort. Let’s make 1 thing very clear:
Lord Voldemort is the most powerful dark wizard of all time.
This is stated countless times in the books and films by various characters, including Dumbledore.
Both Pottermore and the books said a lot of times that Voldemort was the strongest Dark Wizard of the century/ever. These statements cannot be ignored on the whims of Grindelwald fanboys/girls.
Rowling described him as:
The greatest dark wizard of all time COS
The most feared dark Wizard for a hundred years POA
The most powerful dark wizard in a century GOF
The most powerful dark wizard of all time HBP
#1 on the list of most powerful dark wizards of all time DH
The most powerful dark wizard of all time Pottermore
With this being made clear. Let’s make another inarguable statement:
Lord Voldemort was more powerful than Gellert Grindelwald.
Grindelwald was wiser. They each represent a different type of foil to Dumbledore. Grindelwald was an intellectual/personal rival to Dumbledore. Equally prodigious in their youth, near equal in terms of intelligence and wisdom but with Dumbledore having the upper hand in skill and raw power. It’s the reverse with Voldemort. Voldemort’s raw power and skill were great enough to rival Dumbledore, but he lacked all of Dumbledore’s wisdom.
Katherine Mayers LMAO this is my post on Quora. Plagiarism I tell you!
Agreed, I would go so far as to say, in raw power, Voldemort's exceeds Dumbledore's
However, Albus is arguably more cunning and just as brainy
Katherine however I agree with the duel scenario because grindelwald is more tactical and can use defensive spells like protego diabalica
We all know Voldermort takes this fight. Though Grindelwald would be a formidable opponent.
Also with the fact he split his souls there's literally nothing he can do to Voldermort (fight would be different if he didn't do this) but none the less Voldermort would win 6/10 there's no way this is a curbstomp.
Actually it might be a stomp
Lord Voldemort almost Killed an Elderwand welding Albus Dumbledore in about 2 minutes into their duel if not for Fawkes despite being in a hurry to leave before the Entire Auror office arrived
Grindewald Lost to Dumbledore even when Albus had a much weaker wand and he had a much stronger wand
Voldemort is like a God in comparison
Seth Rollins fan???
@@Phoenix-King-ozai You're saying as if disapparation-which Voldemort used too much-and intervention of Fawkes and animated centaur are serving different things. Dear, those are all cheats, if you ask me.
It's obvious he was fighting the post prime Dumbledore yet Dumbledore won-that alone should have showed you the fact who's more superior than the other.
Dumbledore was destined to live and those interventions were meant to happen, same thing goes to Voldemort; he needed to overuse disapparation in order not to lose against Dumbledore (or get killed).
Dumbledore had been the BEST dueler of all time. It's not because Gellert was noob so he lost, it's because Dumbledore WAS WAY TOO GOOD OF A DUELIST. Far way better than him.
Imo, if we make-believe Voldy was the true master of the most powerful wand (i.e. The Elder Wand) and he would be fighting prime Dumbledore, the latter would win because of his abilities when it comes to duel. And, Dumbledore was a genius-the smartest wizard as they say. It's not the wand, it's the skill-as we all know proven when Dumbledore won against Gellert possessing The Elder Wand.
So your points are invalid to me, sorry.
"vOLDeMorT iS LikE a gOd iN cOmpAriSoN" Ew, gurl, you need help. You're such a delusional Voldy stan. lol
Voldemort fought an old age Dumbledore who was only trying to protect Harry knowing that Voldemort was immortal... Dumbledore fought Grindelwald at the height of his powers for like 3 hours and Voldemort seems like an arrogant person who would use pure power and would probably get outsmarted
@@brickwall6247 and Voldemort has gotten outsmarted many times
Voldemort almost beat dumbledore with the elder wand grindwald had the elder but lost to dumbledore with elder wand so Voldemort is like a god to grindwald
GeZy Ninja
That's right.
Finally someone with sense
How difficult is that to figure out
But people still close their eyes and say Dumbledore beat Voldemort and Even Grindelwald would beat him
What a joke
Conor stack, you give me hope that Humans are not all stupid
And now this Ninja guy as well
@@Phoenix-King-ozai you all are stupid ass...if you read the book...dumbledore was not fighting seriously...even voldemot said that you are not fighting seriously dumbledore...he was just protecting harry...he knew that killing voldemort is not the solution he will come back...while dumbledore and grindlewald fight was one of the greatest duel ever.....
@@Phoenix-King-ozai The biggest joke is you Voldemort fanboys wanking him to heavens and downplaying Grindelwald.
@@t0raxx797 ua-cam.com/video/pZteR2aD0eI/v-deo.html.
Personally, I prefer Gerllert Grindelwald over Lord Voldemort. In Fantastic Beasts, it’s very clear that Grindelwald is an expert tactician, incredibly manipulative, and his magical prowess in unmatched by all but Albus Dumbledore. He defeats his enemies in much more creative and complex ways instead of just shooting people with Killing Curses; using magic as more of an extension of his imagination than just simply a weapon. Also unlike Voldemort, his influence inspired loyalty over fear. While Voldemort displayed more raw power and knowledge over the Dark Arts, I believe Grindelwald has much more experience in formal duals, and his versatility with his spell-casting is far greater. Not to mention, Voldemort is likely to let his anger and aggression during a dual allow Grindelwald to overpower him in unforeseen ways.
I have to agree. Voldemort may be a touch more powerful than Grindelwald, but Grindelwald was the more knowledgeable and skilled wizard of the two. Come on. Grindelwald knew he was going to die or be horribly tortured by Voldemort when Voldemort busted into Nurmengard for the elder wand. Grindelwald toyed with Voldemort. I don't believe he feared Voldemort in the least. Shame he had to be locked away. He could have been useful in taking down Voldemort the first time around.
Geta Münch yes, have the government make two of the largest genocidal dark lords fight each other
Gellert Grindelwald may not even be a true "Dark" Wizard. He did not make Horcruxes for the fact that he is not afraid of death. He is not evil as Voldemort. It is only Voldemort who truly embraced being dark. Thats why he is the GREATEST DARK WIZARD OF ALL TIME, BUT NOT AS POWERFUL AS GELLERT GRINDELWALD. Grindelwald wanted the Greater Good, it is only in his way was wrong. He still have some good in himself. And that could be the possibility why he'd lost to Dumbledore. He realized he was wrong.
I'm with you. Voldemord was only feared and powerful because he went deeper into dark magic than anyone before.
Grindelwald was a skilled wizard almost evenly strong as Dumbledore
Uh no. He's called darkest because he kills for fun unlike the others. Horcruxs have nothing to do with being a dark wizard. No one even knew he had them.
@@gonaedeath2 do you even know anything about Harry Potter?
PapaG
Multiple sources confirm that Lord Voldemort was more powerful than any other dark wizard in history, including Gellert Grindelwald.
Harry had somehow survived a curse from the greatest dark sorcerer of all time, Lord Voldemort-Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets.
Harry had been a year old the night that Voldemort, the most powerful dark wizard for a century, wizard who had been gaining power steadily for eleven years arrived at his house, and killed his father and mother-Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire.
In regard to their magical skill and knowledge, Albus Dumbledore who duelled both of them regarded Voldemort's magical knowledge as more extensive than that of any other wizard.
Albus Dumbledore: "I knew that Voldemort's knowledge of magic is perhaps more extensive than any wizard alive"-Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix.
There wasn't really anything to suggest that Dumbledore had degenerated by the time of the Harry Potter books, aside from his weakened state in the
Half-blood Prince which was only due to the dark magic of Voldemort's Horcrux. Therefore, it would only make sense for him to have simply been more experienced and magically knowledgeable. There was hardly anything to suggest that Dumbledore was more powerful than Voldemort as they fought to a stalemate, while Dumbledore wielded the Elder wand. Dumbledore also required Fawkes' assistance to avoid Voldemort's killing curse. Had Fawkes not been present, Dumbledore most likely could have died. Meanwhile, Dumbledore defeated Grindelwald while Grindelwald wielded the Elder wand.
@@papag5303 I clearly do. No one knew Voldemort had Horcruxs but he was still called the darkest. Being the darkest wizard had nothing to do with having a Horcrux.
Didn’t they already confirmed that Voldemort already surpassed Grindelwald?
Its all due to the Fantastic beasts movies
And the newer better cgi
Most of them haven't read the books
Yes, it’s explicitly stated in the books that Voldemort was more powerful than than Grindelwald.
Finally someone who read the books
Explicitly stated in the books and by Dumbledore and JK Rowling herself. They said Voldemort was better than Grindlewald in every way. Grindlewald just had a political agenda while Voldemort’s agenda was based on his selfish desire for full blood supremacy. You can call Grindlewald more interesting but more powerful? In what world exactly? Dumbledore stayed himself he’s never dueled anyone as powerful as Voldemort and no one has pushed the boundaries of magic farther than Voldemort. Dumbledore felt uneasy about Voldemort’s power from when he was about 11 years old.
Whew....
Those were the books.
In Films, Grindelwald is much more stronger.
Voldemort dueled an elder wielding Dumbledore. Grindelwald had the elder wand and was its master and lost. I think that suggests that Voldemort is on par if not a better duelist than Grindelwald.
first of all dumbledore is old and second dumbledore didnt use elder wands power or it would have been very eye catching and the books would have pointed it out and during there duel voldemort didnt even know dumbledore was weilding the wand showing that he didnt use the power and all he was trying to do was hold back voldemort and prevent him from killing harry and to show the ministry voldemort was alive
@@slurp3194 Dude, magic, in all and every RPG games or fantasy books/movies/worlds, is a MENTAL stat and ability. Unless you have a mental disorder or an illness that affects the brain, you only get more powerful at it as you get older and gain practical experience by using it. It's not a physical stat like strength and dexterity to be negatively affected by old age. Don't be ridiculous. You don't use your muscles to lift that big ass rock from 10 meters away, you don't strain your biceps for it. It's all a mental effort. That's why Sorcerers use charisma and wizards use intelligence. Yes, i am using rpg stats here. And yes, that's how mental powers work. It's all about knowledge and mental capacity.
No,Grindelwald had feelings to Albus,he never wanna battle aganist him...thats the same for Albus...he slows doen the battle aganist Grindelwald for 5years
And Dumbledore is too old to defeat Voldemort with his all horcruxes....And Grindelwald never had horcruxes....
@@vasilisgreen But age can affect memory and even physical movements. Which can easily affect spell casting
Voldemort was more intimidating in the books. I really didnt care for the way he's portrayed in the movies. He behaves like the joker almost. Voldemort was a lot more serious and sane in the books. He also is described differently, including red eyes.
We have no evidence of Grindelwald's skills in the books, in the way we have evidence of Voldemort. The movies is all we have.
@@GlenDivo That's true. All we have is several statements saying Voldimort is the most powerful ever. I think everybody, including myself, like the idea of Grindelwald being more powerful is simply because he was more badass in the movies. Voldimort doesnt even act like somebody who people would follow in the movies. He's just a wheezy no-nosed psychotic.
Yeah in the movies they really ruined Voldermort by having him act like a weird creep. In the books he is silent, cold, calculating, and extremely intimidating. He’s not described as bald at all; he should’ve looked like a very handsome man who underwent too much plastic surgery. With red eyes. Holy fuck how hard could it have been to get some red contacts.
Agreed, Book Voldemort was amazing
"...Face whiter than skull, with slits for nostrils and scarlet red eyes, a skeletally thin man had risen out of the cauldron, and he looked at Harry, the face which haunted his nightmares..." Lord Voldemort has risen again
Movies : let's make him White, noseless and give him baby blue eyes
I actually think the Goblet of fire Voldemort would be perfect with red eyes
The later movies ruined him
As for in the books, he was in my opinion the Most Powerful Wizard of All Times, if we read beneath the lines
@@Phoenix-King-ozai actually they gave him red eyes but the director wanted ralph to portray better the feelings
I like how they portrayed voldemort
While he slid nostrils and white skull skin because he destroyed his soul he still have some human inside him
I’d say Voldemort because of the following he gained, his magical knowledge and managing to use the Elder Wand so well despite it not being loyal to him, however Grindelwald for his tactics, fighting skill, mental stability and actual magic power. I’d give the edge to Grindelwald in the end myself
You also got to take into consideration their age! You're placing two different age levels in two different in power! Please make another video relating their age if it all possible LOL definitely like this topic and would like to see it progressed with the upcoming three movies with Grindelwald!
First of all, Grindewald he stole the elder wand from Gregorovitch if i remember correctly so he didnt obey him completly. Also in the first movie at the end he didnt make anythinh special and powerfull spell to destroy Aurors . As he said Crhistopher Orta " Voldemort duels using rage, hate and aggression" its is true more power more range true unleased power comes from him. Furthermore, many claim that voldertmort afraid death thats its is not complete true, because if he push the limits of magic further than anyone before , one most powerfull way is to find a way that you can not die. For example, Nicolas Flames He owed his considerable age to the Elixir of Life. So i think Voldermort is the most intellegent powerfull dark wirzard , also as we know he never be captured by any goverment.
true
voldemort with a simple wand vs experienced dumbledore with elder wand
grindlewald with elder wand vs dumbledore with a simple wand
VOLDEMORT WINS
Exactly
Not necessarily. Dumbledore knew Voldemort had horcruxes therefore killing him would be pointless.
Voldemort also fled within a few minutes realizing Dumbledore is much more skillful and powerful.
In the books, Dumbledore dodges and blocks Voldemort's killing curse via statues. He is also actively protecting Harry. Whilst stalling Voldemort.
Dumbledore was in control of the duel the entire time. It was actually terrifying Harry that Dumbledore was so calm whilst fighting Voldemort.
Dumbledore vs Grindelwald was much more impressive. In which, Grindelwald dueled for hours. Dumbledore won because once again he is the superior duelist and tactician.
In both of these fights we can see the only advantage Voldemort had were his horcruxes.
Whilst Grindelwald employed skill.
@@AliceOnly671 Hey mate,
We met before 😀
Just to clarify a couple of points
Not saying Voldemort is absolutely 100% stronger, but you got a few points wrong
Its all from the Books before you ask
(1)
Dumbledore knowing about horcruxes only prevents him from killing Voldemort
Nothing was stopping him from Defeating him, capturing him, force Extracting the locations of horcruxes at his leisure, sending the order to destroy them, and then kill him at his leisure
Horcruxes are practically useless unless your enemy is weaker than you and doesn't know about them
Dumbledore never killed Grindewald
So obviously he can defeat Voldemort without killing him, so no excuse as to why not
(2)
Dumbledore was unafraid of death
We all know that since Book 1
So how is him remaining calm in the battle a big deal ?
Its not like he could actually do Anything to Voldemort
Voldemort on the other hand almost Killed an Elderwand welding Albus Dumbledore in about a couple of minutes if not for Fawkes
(3)
This is the one excuse i really hate, because it is so dishonest
I hope you just mixed it up accidentally
Voldemort left the battle after the Aurors arrived, with Bellatrix
Voldemort knew the Aurors were coming before the battle even began
When did he ever "Flee" realising Dumbledore was stronger ?
Sure, he realised Albus was simply wasting his time, so he switched to harry
How is that even remotely cowardice
If osama bin Laden comes to the white house, almost kills the head of the secret service in a one-on-one duel Despite having a much weaker weapon, the secret service guy only living because his dog took a bullet for him and bin Laden leaves after reinforcements come, I say he Won comfortably
Conclusion :
I know we butted heads in the past and then came to an agreement, wouldn't want to spoil that at all
I am not claiming Voldemort even won
It was a complicated duel
But if anyone won, it wasn't Albus
Sure, Albus saved Harry from Voldemort and the Deatheaters
Just like Voldemort saved Bellatrix from Albus, the order and the Aurors
You don't have to agree Voldemort is better
But you got to admit you underestimated him on a few key areas
@@Phoenix-King-ozai I agree and I'm not saying that Voldemort isn't strong, but I just dont agree that Voldemort was in anyway more understanding of magic than Grindelwald. In dark magic yes Voldemort, is extremely knowledgeable and I agree, but for a more well rounded perspective on magic I favor Grindelwald.
@@AliceOnly671 Fair enough
Grindewald is kind of like a Dark Dumbledore right ?
So i accept that Dumbledore understood magic deeper than Voldy
I accept that Grindewald might be wiser than Voldemort
But Voldemort is not just about Dark magic
In fact, in my compilation of the Dark Lord's Achievements, i never even list Dark stuff, horcruxes etc
Voldemort did push the boundaries of all magic
Not just Dark
I accept that magic has many dimensions
Voldemort sure did many foolish things
It might be that both Dumbledore and Grindewald had a more wholistic understanding of magic
But I can't help but think that in Combat and personal abilities, Personal Augmentation Voldemort is a bit above A normal wand weilding Albus and Grindewald
The duo definitely overtake him in other human aspects and understanding of the consequences of magic
In that sense, he is definitely inferior
Voldemort is simultaneously the strongest and the most vulnerable, pathetic wizard
In a sense
Strongest in the sense that he rivaled and in some cases exceeded the Greatest of the Wizards weilding the Greatest wand for decades and Yet lost to a Teenager due to his own shortcomings and Dumbledore's machinations and Love, thus Pathetic
I just want people to give him his due
It pains me when people talk like he is just a cheap knockoff inferior Version of Albus, barely clinging to life due to his horcruxes, barely not loosing Despite using dark magic etc
The truth is, Voldemort did a lot of things unheard of, Even Albus respects him tremendously
Especially noticible in the 6th and 7th books
He is afterall the Villain
Raw Power is the one thing he Must have
It makes no sense if he is legitimately weaker than even a Normal Wand Albus
Sure, he is Flawed, heck he is full of Flaws
But he was also Very Powerful
He was only Defeated by Love, the one thing which irked him and escaped his understanding completely
It took the combined efforts of a whole country of Wizards and Albus dumbledore's Best magical, intellectual, Emotional efforts and an Extremely powerful wand for several decades to finally destroy Voldemort, even then, it was pretty close for a while
People don't realise that they actually cheapen Albus's memory when they casually say things like, Albus wasn't even trying and still beat him etc
Sure, that sounds badass, for a second maybe
But it is also completely absurd and makes Albus's efforts from 1955 to 1997 completely useless
I think that is how Rowling wanted Harry, Albus to defeat him
With Love, not overpowering him
She made sure, he can't be overpowered, she made sure he was nigh unbeatable and yet can be defeated by a simple teen-ager
That's beautiful writing
We should give every character his due
Voldemort should have been wiser, should have spent atleast a couple thousand galeons on PR
His public image sucks 😂
Anyway, just my take, tks for patiently hearing me out
See ya 😀
2 things that make Grindelwald better 1st he can feel love so he can syphon more magic and 2nd when Voldemort meets grindelwald in prison he was taunting Voldemort he was never scared of him
Just because you can love does not mean you're suddenly more powerful, don't BS with this and say "Well it is said to be the strongest kind of magic in the HP uni" Like, people still die? Yes. Even those who understand and loves? YES. Just because Grindelwald can "love" does not make him stronger. Look at Harry's case, that is what they mean by love being so powerful, the protection he got was the whole reason for him surviving and in the end, winning over Voldemort. But Grindelwald has no protection nor do he have more power because of him understanding love, it just means that if a case like Harry's were to happen, he would probably know what to do compared to Voldemort.
Just because Grindelwald wasn't afraid of Voldemort and laughing at him does not make him stronger either LMAO, like where do you get this from xD? Grindelwald was in prison and life running out, WHAT THE HELL WOULD HE BE AFRAID OF EXACTLY ? lmao
Not gonna write 100000 words just to explain something that should be clear.
1: Grindelwald LOST to Dumbledore even tho having the Elder wand
2: Voldemort keeping up with Dumbledore and even had the upper hand if not for Fawks, then it was pretty much equal. Dumbledore had the fking elder wand at this point but that made no difference, Voldemort still kept up. Just image if Dumbledore didn't have the elder wand in that battle or Fawks = Would probably have died as the killing curse would have hit him.
- Means that Voldemort is the strongest of all 3 and then Dumbledore and then last but not least Grindelwald.
- The biggest difference here is just that Dumbledore was much wiser/smarter and as we already know was ahead of Voldemort when it came to planning and in generel as we see with him planing Harrys journey etc. Grindelwald is the same, wiser/smarter overall but not more powerful.
It is even stated throughout the books that Voldemort was the most feared, most dangerous and most powerful dark wizard to have ever existed or def for the last century which would include Grindelwald. Boom facts.
@@kasperhansen7854 finally someone who reads beneath the lines
Agree totally
Voldemort every time. Take away the Horcrux's and the elder wand it would be a good fight but I would still put my money on Voldemort.
10:34-10:48 *attacks grindelwald*
"awww shit lol, now I gotta lay the beat down on all of your asses!"
He had them. They were damn lucky newt was there 😅
Dumbledore said Voldemort was stronger than Grindelwald in the books. Saying Grindelwald is the second most powerful Dark Wizard of all time, Voldemort #1.
Let’s forget that Voldemort had you go all out to beat 3 aura level wizards, while grindlwald didn’t even flinch while facing more than a half dozen auras while still moving forwards, your such a butthurt fan
Cameron Matlock In a dule horcruxys don’t matter, that’s an unfair advantage and I’m either was grindlewald could still beat him without having to kill him...also are we gonna forget that grindlewald is the creator and only user ever of the most op and powerful spell of all time. His blue fire spell is something Voldemort can’t avoid+ grindlewald can start the fire, shot spell like blasts of this fire out of his wand, and use other spells while this fire takes over, this fire also stops Voldemort from flying away and teleporting. So it’s easy for him to trap voldy in a duel. Also watch Harry Potter fan theory’s new vid on it, he put Grindlewald and Voldemort as =‘s saying they would be very close it power...Voldemort takes the cake by a shade, but Grindlewald is much wiser, has a much larger knowledge of magic in all areas, and has a WAY bigger spell arsenal...I doubt Voldemort is powerful enough to break through Grindlewalds shields. Grindlewald would win in a duel. And is more skilled
Cameron Matlock also Dumbledore said Voldemort was the most dangerous, most dangerous doesn’t mean most powerful. Get educated before you mess with the big dogs kidd
What book and page number references this? I don't recall it, closest I recall is Dumbledore saying young Tom was the most powerful wizard when he was talking with grey about the orphanage
Cameron Matlock your actually dumb...when Dumbledore said this he was referring to dark magic and Lethal spell and curses. Things that Dumbledore never practiced or used...ever. Grindlewald was far more intelligent of a wizard then Voldemort. Seeing that Voldemort could have done so many things to win the second wizard war. Also Grindlewald was more gifted in magic overall he knew magic Voldemort couldn’t have done even if he tried. Your actually dumb if you think that Voldemort is more powerful than Dumbledore. This is easily debunked. Also power doesn’t mean better at dueling. Grow up kid. Voldemort lost to Harry in the duel, he could have killed Harry at any time with no wand magic. But he didn’t. Pertago diabolica is the most powerful spell to ever be created and only Grindlewald can use it. Game over. Voldemort loses
Grindelwald wins. The "Voldemort is the most powerful Dark wizard" thing is probably a bit of an exaggeration because he's probably far more evil, dark, and cruel than Grindelwald. Dude was f*cked up enough to split his soul multiple times definitely focused more on the dark arts than Grindelwald. While Grindelwald would befriend and manipulate people to be his ally Voldemort would just choose the already screwed up wizards to join him and just torture and kill the others. Plus Old Dumbledore still kicked his ass. While Dumbledore in his prime vs Grindelwald is considered the most epic duel and they can't even kill each other.
L P G
There wasn't really anything to suggest that Albus Dumbledore had degenerared by the time of the Harry Potter books, aside from his weakened state in The
Half-blood Prince which was only due to the dark magic of Lord Voldemort's Horcrux. Therefore, it would only make sense for him to have simply been more experienced and magically knowledgeable. There was also hardly anything at all to suggest that Dumbledore was more powerful than Voldemort as they fought to a stalemate, while Dumbledore wielded the Elder wand. Dumbledore also required Fawkes' assistance to avoid Voldemort's killing curse. Had Fawkes not been present, Dumbledore most likely could have died.
I'm with you, you stole my idea😂😂😠
Albus vs Voldemort wasn't a close fight (in the books). Prime or no prime, Albus was the more powerful wizard in both duels. Its a reason Voldemort didnt outright take over the wizarding world in his return. Grindelwald is a better duelist than Voldemort. Im not sure losing with the elder wand to Albus is a knock on Grindelwald or a testament to Dumbledore's power.
i Think that is a knock to Grindlewald imo i dont think Voldemort would of lost to Albus if he was properly was wielding the elder wand meaning if the wand was actually bound to him unlike the duel with harry. I think it was clear that Albus was pretty shocked in his raw power as shown in the duel, even put him on his ass but yes i think the Albus was the more skillful and powerful wizard then both but the only thing that would put Voldemort above him is with the boost of the elder wand.
Except he isn’t. Pottermore and the books state that Voldemort>Grindelwald.
Q B
There wasn't really anything to suggest that Albus Dumbledore was more powerful than Lord Voldemort as they fought to a stalemate, while Dumbledore wielded the Elder wand. Dumbledore also required Fawkes' assistance to avoid Voldemort's killing curse. Had Fawkes not been present, Dumbledore most likely could have died.
@@CulturalMarxist4985 in the books Dumbledore power pretty much embarrassed Voldemort in their duel. Dumbledore was described as calm as someone causally drinking tea (im paraphrasing)
Q B Hey hey buddy we will see in next five years how that’s happened. Bcs im sure 100% the others like Scamander and his Gf helped enough against him, how and what they done we will see.
Oh and one more thing grindelwald with the elder wand lost to a young weaker dumbledore, but voldemort tied with dumbledore. Also in the sorcerer of stone book dumbledore said "you flatter me voldemort has power i will never have". Did you hear that? dumbledore just admitted voldemort is even more powerful than dumbledore said by dumbledores own words. So 1st most powerful is voldemort second is dumbledore and third is grindelwald.
Not so powerful if he got killed by a baby xD
So according to you, a tiger is weak if it is killed by a pathogen ?
No that was all his mother and killing him didn’t kill him. Grindelwald would stay dead
AYYYYYYYY
Thwart Regent he disinterested get kissed by a baby😂😂😂😂
Voldemort was necessarily killed by a baby, it was mainly because of something that he had never had (not a nose), love. Love was part of the reason why Voldemort died, he never understood how love worked and he thought that it didn’t matter. Yet Lily Potter saved Harry because of the magical enchantment that was placed on him after she sacrificed her life for him, an act of love. And so, because of the protection Lily gave to Harry, the killing curse rebounded. So really Voldemort killed him self because of love.
Here’s how I see it going.
Voldemort Apparated into the street. Grindelwald was right there, at the other end, 100 feet away. All the Muggles were gone.
“I thought you weren’t going to show!” Grindelwald shouted.
“You thought wrong,” replied Voldemort.
Grindelwald brandished his wand, and a silver light flew through the air. Voldemort turned around and launched a spell behind him, hitting the Apparated Grindelwald in the chest, knocking him back. The spell rebounded and Voldemort deflected it into Grindelwald’s, destroying it in a shower of sparks. Voldemort was lifted into the air as this happened and was ragdolled into a nearby window. He was inside a building.
Grindelwald Apparated into the building and launched a spell at Voldemort, who clashed with it, creating a mighty explosion which shook the building. Voldemort shouted, “Avada Kedavra!” A blinding rush of green light filled the collapsing area, but missed.
Grindelwald launched a falling boulder at Voldemort. Voldemort pointed his wand at it and Transfigured it into a large fiery snake which struck at Grindelwald, catching him in his jaws and dragging him for thirty feet before dropping him another fifteen. Grindelwald, who had protected himself from the fire, halted his momentum and fell lightly.
Voldemort Apparated in and unleashed three green flashes of bright light. He made a slashing motion, slicing the Killing Curses in half down the middle, before waving the wand and multiplying the spells. The green jets gathered around Gellert and crashed in, but Grindelwald was on top of another building, bellowing, “Incindeo!”
Voldemort turned around and yelled, “Aguamenti!” But Fire was not there. Grindelwald was behind Voldemort, and a red light flashed. Voldemort was gone.
“Looking for me, Gellert?” said a high, cold voice.
Voldemort lifted the Disillusionment Charm, and screamed, “Avada Kedavra!” A Fiendfyre animal swirled around Grindelwald, burning away the Curse as three boulders were sent soaring through the air. The Fiendfyre was redirected towards the boulders by Voldemort, burning them away.
“Impressive, Tom,” said Grindelwald boredly.
Grindelwald vanished as the ground beneath him was uprooted. The rocks that came with the uprooting turned into large birds which turned and launched themselves at Grindelwald, but the Fiendfyre came back to turn them to ash. The Fienfyre turned back to Voldemort, but the flaming serpent reappeared, larger, brighter, hotter.
The fiery beasts were suddenly frozen over as Grindelwald waved his wand, then they broke apart to shards, only to enlarge to icebergs that were sent flying at Voldemort. Tom Riddle sent half of them back, Transfigured them into flies, and switched the Icebergs with the insects. Grindelwald Apparated out of the way of the falling ice, but Voldemort did the same, reappearing inside a hiding place inside a building.
Voldemort was about to come up with a strategy, but he felt the feeling of the Human Revealing Spell on his back, and Apparated just in time to survive the blue flames that destroyed the area around him.
Voldemort appeared back on the ground, quickly found out where Gellert was, and began to cast a destructive hex, but began to feel the effects of Crucio. He fell to the ground, screaming in agony, and looked up into Grindelwald’s eyes.
“Bye, Voldemort.”
His wand flew out of his hand. Grindelwald looked at it, giving Voldemort the time to point his wand and shout, “Obliviate!”
Gellert was staggered. Voldemort raised himself up, summoned the wand of the dark wizard to his hand, and stuck it in Grindelwald’s throat.
“Avada Kedavra!”
Gellert Grindelwald fell to the ground, dead. Tom Riddle walked away and disappeared.
Would like to see that in a film
Very nice
But it would be faster
Voldemort is far more powerful than Grindelwald
@@Phoenix-King-ozai Why are you downplaying Grindelwald so hard?
@@t0raxx797 because Voldemort >= Elderwand welding Albus >>> Normal Albus >= Elderwand welding Gellert >>> Normal Gellert >> others
Therefore it follows that Voldemort is a God compared to Grindewald who is just a powerful wizard
volemort held his own against dumbledore while he had the elder wand. on the other hand grindlewald lost to him while wielding the elder wand
Dumbledore was old and weakened. Eeven Voldemort himself admitted that Dumbledore wasnt even trying to kill him.
Yes and Dumbledore said that he was only a shade more skillfull than Grindelwald.
Wizards don't get weaker with age
I'am sick of fans pretending other wise to give excuses for Dumbledore almost getting killed
Why don't you decide to be truthful and accept Voldemort would crush Grindelwald and Dumbledore
@@Phoenix-King-ozai "Wizards don't get weaker with age" Source? Or just empty words.
"Why don't you decide to be truthful and accept Voldemort would crush Grindelwald and Dumbledore"
And I'm sick and tired of you Voldemort fanboys who think that he is some sort "God" or something, for fuck's sake... He couldn't even conquer a fucking school, but yeah let's praise the almighty Dark Lord.
What a joke.
Crush Dumbledore? Can you wank Voldemort even more? Then why he didn't do that? Huh? He wasn't even fighting Voldemort with intent of kill, even he was admitting that. But you fanboys know it better right?
The books explicitly state Voldemort was more powerful than Grindelwald. There is no need for this video. It’s been confirmed that Voldemort would beat Grindelwald.
Sarasti S no
Blue Planet uh yes.
Powerful doesn’t mean who would win????? Grindelwald was a much more skilled at dueling, and was much wiser....also Dumbledore stated himself that grindlewald was more powerful then him, that means grindlewald is the most powerful wizard ever, but once again even if Voldemort is more powerful he isn’t as wise or a smart and grindlewald
Gellert Grindlwald no Grindelwald absolutely wasn’t a better duelist. Grindelwald loses every single duel he is mentioned in. Grindelwald had the elder wand and still lost to Dumbledore. Voldemort fought and elder wand wielding Dumbledore and was not defeated. The books say explicitly that Voldemort was more powerful and more dangerous than Grindelwald. Dumbledore himself says so.
Also Dumbledore NEVER says that Grindelwald is more powerful than himself. He says the exact opposite, that Grindelwald was less skilled than he was. Dumbledore states that he was never worried about what grindelwald could do magically, since Dumbledore knew he himself was the greater wizard and could defeat Grindelwald. On the contrary, Dumbledore says that Voldemort has powers he will never have, and that Voldemort’s knowledge of magic is more extensive than any wizard alive.
Intelligence doesn’t matter in a duel. Even if Grindelwald was slightly smarter and wiser than Voldemort, it doesn’t matter, because Voldemort is the more skilled and powerful wizard. He would beat Grindelwald.
The books are absolutely crystal clear. Voldemort >Grindelwald.
Sarasti S while, I guess we will see how long the Duel was in the next fantastic beasts movie, also Voldemort was far more fearful of things like death and other things then grindlewald, he held on to these things and they were his weaknesses, also grindlewald is rarely brought up in the books, his story is in the movies so that point is irrelevant, also grindlewald was so much more fluent and determined then Voldemort, he knew what he wanted and he decided that even death was not something he feared bc he knew he would achieve his goals, also once again Dumbledore stated himslef that the only reason he best grindlewald was bc he had a slight edge on skill, meaning that grindlewald has equal or more powerful than Dumbledore, and certainly the most fluent wizard ever just look at the flow he has as he waves his wand as if he’s conducting and Orchestra inside of his head, also you brought up the point that Dumbledore stated that Voldemort knew magic he would never, that’s because Dumbledore isn’t a dark lord and didn’t practice dark magic...another stupid pout, I’m done arguing, ask the author herself, or wait till fantastic beasts 3, I rest my case, I’m not responding any longer
When he said Gellert it sounded like Geralt.
Voldemort a Wizard who achieved immortality if he was not killed by the charm of the strongest ancient magic (Sacrifice of Love) and he took control of the lost souls without the resssurection stone while Grindelwald Needed the stone.
Dumbledore Fought Grindelwald At younger age but Grindelwald had the Elder wand and dumbledore didnt wanted to kill Grindelwald,But He Won.
Dumbledore Fought Voldemort At Older age but wizards aren't athletes, Dumbledore had more knowledge and was wiser than he was when he Dueled Grindelwald and also he wanted to hold him until authors arrive but dumbledore failed and voldemort had him down.
Honestly Voldemort Would smash Grindelwaldin terms of powers and feats and overall youth speed and he had a lot of more to play with is more powerful than 1000 Death eaters.Can single decimate dumbledores absolutely massive impertable shield with a wand that wasn't obey him but still yes did great things not to mention that at those times he was superior weak and on death doors so may as well be without horcuxes by then and even still with a segment of his souls remaining was absolutely horrible to play games with even at his weakest he was maybe more powerful than when he was back in prime point is that Grindelwald can't kill Voldemort because he has no way of locating the 7 horcuxes what's so ever nor his able to catch up with persistently teleporting flying high speed
Voldemort capable of firing never ending spell hexes curses and jinxes all day long without a sweatime.Never mind his feat allowing him to produce instant Death upon anyone the Abother to produce building sized fire based assault following by more countless assaults unprecedented and unpredictable teleportation and mind control and physical possession the list goes on.He can do these feats in near instant quick concessions and is also immortal to anyone than Harry potter due to having the ability to locate and feel the horcuxes cause of the connection but hes still beyond Harry potter without a question as a wizard.
To mention again Voldemort was with 13% part of his soul and with a wand that didn't obeyed him.
VOLDEMORT WINS 100%
Well if voldemort has 100% soul,he Will be ded at duel with dumbledore
And Voldemort didnt want to die so he uses horcruxes/Coward.
Well it said,you cant beat Elder Wand at straight duel,but Dumbledore has so many Helper when fighting grindelwald.and it lasts 3 hours,when Dumbledore duels Voldemort, Dumbledore wasnt serious at all and it lasts less than a minute.
when you are old, you will experience neurological disorders in the brain, such as alzeheimer, dementia, senility. when you are young, brain cells are of better quality than old ones.Let's compare, a 23-year-old, against a 66-year-old in an academic competition, who will win, certainly young, right? Even when Dumbledore's intelligence goes down,He can defeat Voldemort.so its clear grindelwald stronger than Voldemort with basic Wand and no horcrux.
Edit:well grindelwald slayed Almost all Aurors and blew whole Paris by himself when Voldemort failed to conquer a school.
@@humanityisnumberone6008 Wizards dont get weaker with age Professor tofty and Griselda marchbanks were both Dumbledore's OWL inspectors They were also, Harry's OWL Eaminners That makes them atleast 130 yrs old 15 years older than Dumbledore was in the fight Also, both of them could walk, talk, write Editorial Articles against Fudge and could conduct an exam at 130, so Dumbledore sure could flick his wand, it's not like he is doing king Fu You know any muggles who can even walk at 130 ? Wizards are different And evidently, their memories are unaffected Albus Himself says, his memory is as good as it has always been The only possible compromise I would accept would be "Slower Reflexes" That was compensated by Fawkes saving Albus in the fight And bs on Albus "Protecting" Harry Voldemort didn't even Touch Harry after Dumbledore arrived So Albus had no disadvantages at all Voldemort ? Let me think.... Fight in the Fucking Ministry of Magic Being Minutes behind the Entire Auror office arrived might put pressure, don't you think ? And the minor minor Fact that Albus had the Most Powerful Wand in the World which can do the impossible like say, mending a broken wand that is stated by olivander to be "Beyond Magical Repair" So, who has the screws on who ? And yet Dumbledore couldn't do shit to Voldemort Voldy neutralised all of the spells thrown his way Horcruxes don't prevent Albus from Capturing voldy, do they ? Even if he can't kill him He can overpower him right ? ( Like he did to an Elderwand enhanced Gellert Grindelwald in 1945 ) If Albus was SO POWERFUL, why didn't he CAPTURE Voldemort, extract locations of Horcruxes from him, send his Army of Over Qualified Hogwarts teachers to find and destroy them ? He could then Kill Voldemort at his leisure Albus had all the time in the world It was Voldemort who was in a Hurry Harry and Bella were a non factors in the fight Harry was "Pushed back" and kept there and Bella was "thrust to the ground" and lay there struggling by 2 separate statues throughout the whole fight So, the only reason Albus diddn't defeat Voldemort was BECAUSE HE COULDN'T Albus had ALWAYS been weaker than Tom It was the Elderwand that he had since 1945 Tom's 7th year, which kept the score And Dumbs crushes Grindelwald without the Elderwand Which means, Voldy>>>Grindelwald
The reason I think Grindelwald is stronger is because he literally had control of the Elder Wand.
But Grindelwald didnt lose by conventional means to Dumbledore. Grindelwald had given up because he could not bring himself to kill Dumbledore. Grindelwald and Dumbledore had a nearly brotherly relationship. So I would give it to Grindelwald.
Brotherly? Yeeeeah that's.... one way to put it I..... guess 😂
Common misconseptions
Firstly Dumbledore´s age & prime in relation to his fights with grin and voldy. Yes Dumbledore is a very old man, however he is always described by JKR to have the physical energy of a much younger person. When Harry comes back with Cedrics body Dumbledore helps him to his feet with suprising strength for a man so old and thin. And when harry and Dumbledore goes to enter voldemorts cave Dumbledore gets in the water with`the agility of a Much younger person. Not to mention how he ran down the death Chamber stairs & stopped a dussin fleeing death eaters. He is obviously reacting faster when facing Grindelwald at 60 something, but he is far from physicly crippled by his age vs Voldemort and some wizards live to be fucking 300. I would say his relativly great physical state is more than compensated for by decades of experience & the elderwand.
Secondly voldemorts fight with dumbly & how he was owned. Dumbledore protected Harry yes, but his protection of Harry did not directly interfere with their fight, he made the statues allert the ministry, tackle Bellatrix & pull Harry aside and then they faught one on one until Harry was possesed, but by that time they were not dueling. Dumbledore tried to keep Voldemort there for the ministry to see and voldy went for the kill. Voldemort freed himself rather easily from the different restraintes used against him (by the greatest wizard of all time with the elderwand) & he very nearly killed Dumbledore. I don’t see how Dumbledore owned Voldemort in any way, neither why dumbly would hold back considering how fucking important it was that Fudge saw the truth. He would just be focusing 100% on spells to restrain Voldemort instead of killing him & who’s to say killing him would have been any easier. Filling the air AROUND voldy with fire and water to trap him might even be easier than outright hitting him with a dealdly curse. Much less aim & fewer killing curses coming Dumbledore’s way as Voldemort had to focus on freeing himself.
Voldemort is more powerful for sure. However Grindelwald is more persuasive. What if Grindelwald didn’t want to actually kill Dumbledore because he was his best friend.
He didnt want to kill dumbledore, he surrendered to him because he didnt want to fight dumbledore anymore
Too bad Voldemort already killed Grindelwald😂💀
Not in the films
Stop using cringe emojis.
You bunch of crybabies have to remember that these are no novels.
Movies are different.
Grindelwald is much stronger than the no nose jealous baldy.
When he was old trapped and wandless 😂😂 and he didn’t even care to fight back
Well Grindelwald mastered elder wand so Grindelwald would win
@@sergimgebrishvili6235 still Grindelwald lost to dumbledore. And when dumbledore was elder wand's master Voldemort fought him equally and on certain occasions he overpowered him. Voldemort is way more powerful than Grindelwald.
Voldmort
Dumbledore wasn’t holding anything back he enchanted statues to hold Harry down before the duel even stared. so that’s invalid
Exactly
He was holding back. He didn't want to kill Voldemort
@@shiningshadow4157 Dumbledore wasn't outright holding back against Voldemort. Voldemort acknowledged that Dumbledore wasn't trying to kill him, 'cause he noticed that he wasn't using the killing curse. He didn't have to kill Voldemort to defeat him.
I guess we can at least agree that Voldemort made terrible plans.
Personally I think Grindelwald was better. Yeah the book says stuff about Voldemort but at that time JK was probably just trying to present him as the biggest threat.
His life was ironic. He wanted to live forever but died in his 70s, right? Which is below average for wizards. Even in that lifetime he was barely living for a good 12-14 years?
He wasn’t a master manipulator like Grindelwald and imho Grindelwald is kinda like Thanos of Harry Potter. He is the villain but you understand his cause. Overall Id say he was a much better villain
Grindelwald was wiser and smarter, but Lord Voldemort was more powerful and a better duelist.
Grindelwald.
Grindelwald is more powerful
Voldemort was more powerful than Grindelwald. It's a Harry Potter fact. This isn't worth discussing.
@@CulturalMarxist4985 More powerful in dark arts, but overall Grindelwald was more knowledgable.
@@t0raxx797 Voldemort's nevertheless more powerful than any other dark wizard, including Grindelwald. What makes you say that Grindelwald was more knowledgeable? Dumbledore said that Voldemort's knowledge of magic is more extensive than that of any other wizard.
Dumbledore: "I knew that Voldemort's knowledge of magic is perhaps more extensive than any wizard alive."
-Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix.
While Grindelwald was described to have been as brilliant as Dumbledore, Dumbledore himself said that Voldemort was even more brilliant.
Grindelwald showed himself quite as precociously brilliant as Dumbledore.
-Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows.
"It was this diary", said Harry quickly, showing it to Dumbledore. "Riddle wrote it when he was sixteen." Dumbledore took the diary and peered keenly down his long, crooked nose at its burned and soggy pages. "Brilliant", he said softly. "Of course, he was probably the most brilliant student Hogwarts has ever seen."
-Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets.
Why dose keep saying the Dumbledore was in his prime when he fight Grindelwald. did they mentioned that in the books? Should Dumbledore be at is prime in where the story takes place because he gained like 50 you years of knowledge and practice with magic why would? Why would old age lessen his powers.
luke ginder
Yeah, there isn't really anything to suggest that Dumbledore had weakened by the time of the Harry Potter books. It would only make sense for him to have been more experienced and magically knowledgeable. He was also described to have had the speed and agility of a much younger man, while he was infected by the dark magic of Voldemort's Horcrux.
With the sudden agility of a much younger man, Dumbledore slid from the boulder, landed in the sea and began to swim with a perfect breaststroke.
-Harry Potter and the Half-blood Prince.
Are you an idiot? A man in his 30s or 40s is obviously stronger than when he is an old man
@@shiningshadow4157 Yeah, but he didn't go fist to fist with Voldemort when he was an old man. All he had to do was flick his wand.
People who think Voldemort is more powerful,They are totally idiots.When Dumbledore was dueling with Voldemort,he was old
and he didn't use his full power,specially any dark magic.He defeated Voldemort in some minutes.Yes,Dumbledore once said that Voldemort is greatest(most powerful)dark wizard of all time.But he once also said that he was just hair better than Grindelwald.And most important,His dueling with Grindelwald was around 3 hours long.Which is longest duel ever. And he used his full power.So,Grindelwald is far more superior and powerful than Voldemort.
The 3 hour long duel was a misconception look it up on the wiki, no length of time is ever mentioned in canon, also Rowling described Voldemort as the most powerful dark wizard.
S The Great
Nope, there isn't anything at all to indicate that Grindelwald could have defeated Voldemort. Voldemort has vastly more impressive feats.
@@CulturalMarxist4985 There isn't also at all that indicate Voldemort could have defeated Grindelwald.Yes,he was die in hands of Voldemort in book but when he was in jail without any power.
Bruh... you missed SOOOOOOOOOO many facts from the books and quotes from Rowling.
Sanchez Brown Like Her *saying* Dumbledore is gay but being too chickenshit to actually show and not say
@@joshuajones6460 ?
Very good breakdown. I didn't read Order of the Phoenix but in the movie it looked like the fight was even. I do realize movies do tend to stray a little.
wizard become powerfull as they age as they aquire more knowledge and experience. so voldemort is stonger than gridelwald because grindelwald fight dumbeldore and loss even he has the elder wand and maybe same knowledge and experience. while voldemort even he also loss but his fighting a much knowlegeable and more experience with an elder wand dumbledore.
no, are talking about wizards or Asgsrdians? Age has nothing to do with knowledge of a wizard.
are the 30 years old, i start from birth, with 30 years knowledge and experience dumbledore is much stronger than 50 years old dumbledore with 50 years of experience and knowledge? if your a muggle then your prime is determine by youth and stamina while wizards prime is determine by experience and knowledge.
@@giomel82 Actually, in book 6, it was clearly stated that the fact that Albus was the older wizard in the duel against Voldemort affected him greater. Age weakens wizards as far as their dueling capacity. Knowledge of spells is all very well but swiftness of motion and the willpower and energy to carry out magic is still critical.
GlenDivo Murray
There wasn't really anything to suggest that Albus Dumbledore had degenerated by the time of the Harry Potter books so it would only make sense for him to have simply been more experienced and magically knowledgeable. Even so, Harry Potter's vision was too slow to follow the speed of Dumbledore's movements while Dumbledore was weakened by the dark magic of Lord Voldemort's Horcrux. Dumbledore was later described to had the speed and agility of a much younger man.
"Yes", said Dumbledore simply. "I shall". He drew his wand so rapidly that Harry barely saw it-Harry Potter and the Half-blood Prince.
With the sudden agility of a much younger man, Dumbledore slid from the boulder, landed in the sea and began to swim with a perfect breaststroke-Harry Potter and the
Half-blood Prince.
dumbledore never used elder wands power hence in the duel voldemort didnt even know dumbledore had the wand no one knew cause he never used its power he held back he knew he was the most powerful voldemort avoided confrontation with dumbledore and did everything in his power and dumbledore was protecting harry and just defending
Everyone's overlooking the fact that Grindelwald can see the future. He will know pretty much every move a wizard can make.
Haha, that's not how prophecy works brother
It comes to you and is about random events
You can't activate it at will and on a specific subject
And it is never real time
I believe voldemort would have won if he hand the full power of the dumbledore wand
He would win even without it
Voldemort almost KILLED an Elderwand welding Albus Dumbledore
Gellert Grindelwald lost to Dumbledore even when HE had the Elderwand
@@Phoenix-King-ozai how do u know that Grindelwald was won by Dumbledore. Could have been time travel. U don't know. Also Voldemort failed to kill Dumbledore although Dumbledore was protecting both harry and only DEFENDING him self. And Voldemort didn't win. Also Grindelwald in fantastic Beasts is shown to kill a baby. Voldemort......????? 😂😂okay just kidding I know that It was because of love but still, Grindelwald actually knew about love and would have predicted it and that what makes him more powerful
@@bruh3128 man shut the fuk up bitch ass voldemort nor dumbledore won dumbledore also didnt kill voldy harry did
Better question, who was more powerful with the elder wand? Because everyone already knows Voldemort is the more powerful wizard.
Nope
Voldemort in the books very easily
In the movies, can't really compare them
Better and flashier CGI for fantastic beasts obviously since they are newer
But nothing suggests Grindelwald could do anything Voldemort couldn't do with his eyes closed and hands tied behind his back...
( I am of course, only defending Book Voldemort, I don't care at all if movie grindewald steps on movie voldemort's face and crushes him to the ground )
Let's agree to disagree
@@gavinoconnorclarke5270 ahh you again
Sure...
I think what we can agree on is I guess, How incredibly badass Johnny Depp Looks as Grindelwald and how amazing the remaining 3 movies are going to be
Even movie Voldemort would kill Grindelwald according to feats alone!
@@cap.alexmason3986 yes, Voldemort is a lot stronger
But Gellert Grindelwald is pretty cool, that explains the following
@@Phoenix-King-ozai Where was it stated that "a lot stronger" that you always keep babbling about? Which book?
I would say that in terms of raw power I'd say Voldermort but in terms of skill and strategy I'd say Grindelwald.
raw power goes to grindelwald, he had a spell that coulda destroyed paris
Yes like Voldemort dabbled in magic albus and Grindelwald could only dream of and vice versa
Ikr, Lord Voldemort was the Greatest Wizard of All Times...he could Fly, turn into smoke, could posses people and so much more
And yet people think, Albus Dumbledore and even Gellert Grindelwald were stronger than him
What a pity
@@Phoenix-King-ozai albus Dumbledore is much stronger than voldemort..
@@itsmenelson3010 Funny how a much stronger wizard wouldn't have lasted a few minutes if not for Fawkes and an unbeatable wand against Voldemort
Voldemort is Vastly more powerful
Albus supporters have a lot of hype
But not much evidence
Read the books without bias
And it'll all be clear
If you still disagree
Present your evidence, and I'll accept I am wrong if I am convinced
If you need My evidence
I have written a 15 page doc on that
You just need to ask and I ll paste it here in comments
Voldemort uses fear to get respect join him or die you're either one of his servants or an enemy Voldemort wants to take over the world Grindelwald uses charisma and manipulation to get followers and thinks he's doing it for the greater good and wants the magical world to reveal itself to the Muggles
Grindelwald the best
TRUE
Yep
Voldemort didn't lose to Dumbledore it was a draw.
Next time i challenge someone and bounce i will call it a draw ;)
Adam Mikkelsen
Voldemort only fled, because of the aurors that arrived.
@@CulturalMarxist4985 Yah your right! maybe i should wait until someone come before i bounce.. then call it a draw :D
@@CulturalMarxist4985 Voldemort abandoned the fight before the Aurors arrived. He was A FUCKING COWARD.
Adam Mikkelsen
If I remember that duel in the book Voldemort actually won. He nearly hit Dumbledore with an Avada Kedavra, but fanny take the hit instead. So, without Fanny intervention Silente would have die there.
Naaa Voldemort is winning this one, he's too overpowered
Agreed.
Finally, more and more People with sense in HP famdom
@@Phoenix-King-ozai Yeah the only people with "sense" are those who you agreeing with? The rest are insane and losers, right? That's your way of thinking?
@@t0raxx797 No, the only people with sense are ones who read the books without Worshipping Albus Dumbledore or Voldemort
But we have none of those Voldemort worshipers here
Even die hard Voldemort supporters like me only want to give him his due
I have met and agreed with many reasonable Albus fans, some of whom accept Voldemort is Stronger, others that its unclear
I respect them
I however have no objection calling people who says Albus " Stomped" Voldemort in the ministry as idiots
Put it this way, dumbledore bested grindelwald while he held the elder wand. Voldemort challenged and reigned in a time when dumbledore held the elder wand... Triangle theories aren't exact but that does say a lot...
I salute your common sense in this age of Foolishness
I find it difficult to understand the speech of the narrator. I’m really sorry if it’s because of disability or something, I didn’t know, but I just wondered if I was the only one.
Grindelwald is just more interesting and kind of charming villain....maybe the movie and Johny Depp makes that character just more likable than he is in the books. And if it comes to who is stronger, Voldemort has greater raw power but Grindelwald seems more skillful which again is more interesting for me.
I have one question .. when i read a story about the elder wand, its say that the elder wand only changes its master if someone conquer/or kill its master. When i look back at harry potter film .. i see that gridelwald stoled the elder wand from someone( i forgot the name), grindelwald didnt kill him . So, my question is .. are grindelwald really became the master of elder wand??
In the books it is stated that Grindelwald used a shock spell on Gregorovich which also works for mastering the elder wand.
While I agree with the analysis, one key point missed in the duel between Dumbledore and Riddle (His real name). Riddle’s motivation was to live forever and a great flight risk if it seemed he might lose the battle. In my opinion Dumbledore knew the flight risk and thus focused on trying to delay Riddle to prove to the Ministry of Magic that Voldemort had returned. I fully believe Dumbledore could have defeated Riddle in a duel with or without the elder wand if Riddle would stand and fight. Age was not a factor as suggested in the video. If Riddle felt he was outmatched by Dumbledore with the elder wand he would have fled thus Dumbledore used mainly defensive and counter spells. It was only Riddle’s ego and greater knowledge in the dark arts that made Riddle believe he could win a duel against Dumbledore. Dumbledore’s masterfully used tactics to encourage these thoughts thus delaying Riddle’s flight until the Minster of Magic showed up.
People are blinded by grindelwald fandom
The only reason why dumbledore beat grindelwald was “for the greater good” because the elder wand has to win duels for its master but in grindelwald’s case he let dumbledore win
There is no evidence that supports this claim...and the duel between Dumbledore and Grindelwald was considered to be the greatest duel to ever happen...which wouldnt really be the case if Grindelwald was trying to win cause Grindelwald isnt a showman...also why would Grindelwald willingly lose to Dumbledore when he was at the peak of his power (or around it)?
I totally agree with this assessment! Saw the movie on Wednesday and it seems that Grindelwald has a better mind for strategy and tactics while Voldemort depends on raw power.
Grindelwald had the master wand and was considered equal to dumbledore. Dumbledore with masterwand in hand couldn't beat Voldemort only just hold him back. This is enough evidence to show Voldemort would wreck his world.
Dumbledore did not waste his time fighting a person with 8 horcruxes,
@@totally_no_hakss3332 the horcruxs only preserve his soul and revive him. Not stop him from being killed or destroyed
Do Harry Potter vs Newt Scamander next!
Also, who do you like better?
Newt Scamander is a magizoologist and isnt a very skilled duelist/fighter...while Harry excels at Defense Against the Dark Arts and manages to hold his own (and defeat) Voldemort multiple times on his own while Newt was helped by his magical beasts (basically Pokèmon) and people...and loses to Grindelwald
@@Corridor3000 he doesn’t “defeat” voldemort in any instance he was protected by love and them having the same wand core is why voldemort couldn’t kill harry, voldemort knows he’s more skilled than harry
@@anakinmidwalker4322 fair enough...but he does outsmart Voldemort for wut that's worth
Also both of those conditions were removed by the battle of Hogwarts
Grindelwald is more powerful and Valdermort is more evil
Voldemort is more powerful and more evil.grindelwald is nothing compared to Voldemort
jk said it herself Voldemort
JK is saying allot of things.
@@Bolse20 funny how you Gellert Grindelwald fans have no problem when it's in your favour
And it's not just Rowling, the book mentions Dozens of times that Voldemort would slaughter Gellert Grindelwald in his prime
@@Phoenix-King-ozai "funny how you Gellert Grindelwald fans have no problem when it's in your favour
"
That could be said about you Voldemort fans too, but whatever.
Slaughter? Wow, that's next level fanboyism there. Congrats.
@@t0raxx797 Because Voldemort "fans", if they exist get their feats from the books
Grindewald has only 2 feats in the books
(1) Being a powerful dark wizard, albeit explicitly stated to be weaker than Voldemort in 5 out 7 books and not mentioned in others
( Which Grindewald fans conveniently ignore, if they read it at all )
(2) Loosing to Albus, Even with the Elderwand
Therefore, grindewald fans went batshit crazy after the fantastic beasts movies came
Because he got extra feats
Now that's all cool
Gellert Grindelwald is an interesting and more realistic character than Voldemort
But 9/10 fans Yell to the heavens that Gellert Grindelwald would "Easily" beat Voldemort
Despite Voldemort having much better feats
Now, that pisses me off and hence why i sometimes act bitterly acidic
You seem relatively reasonable
So i just wanted to give you some background
Funny how you choose wrongfully when it has already been a fact and proven by the creator jk rowling she admitted Voldemort could beat grindelwald think about it Dumbledore said Voldemort had powers i never had this proves Voldemort is even more powerful than great Dumbledore bit grindelwald with elder wand lost to a younger dumbledore without elder wand while in the movie Voldemort managed to knock down Dumbledore and break Dumbledores shield while Dumbledore had the elder wand now in the book Voldemort almost killed Dumbledore this is why fawkes jumped and saved Dumbledore so at the end of the day Lord Voldemort is the most powerful wizard of all
Erika Matlock
That's right.
Wow, never knew there are so many sensible people nowadays
@@Phoenix-King-ozai But are you one of them?
How can people say that Voldemort is stronger than Dumbledore, it's beyond me...
@@t0raxx797 you want an honest answer ?
I wrote 15 pages on that
I have no problem pasting it here
But you must read/ have read the books to assess it
In a duel voldemort would probably just win with raw power
Grindelwald! He is weaker in terms of magic, but Grindelwald is such a charismatic and manipulating wizard.
So was voldemort
@@dakotablount251 Voldemort was feared. Grindelwald was admired.
@@juliano5662 grindelwald was feared by most. Voldemort was admired too.
J.K already stated that Voldemort was the most powerful dark wizard right?
Yes. It’s stated multiple times in the books and on Pottermore that Lord Voldemort was the most powerful dark wizard of all time.
True but grindel wasn't dumb he new what he was doing so it really matters that grinder is maybe a little bit better even though to killed him in the books grindel couldn't kill him because he had chains on his hands so he couldn't of killed tom
People take one look at how badass Johnny Depp looks as Grindelwald and forget all about how badass Voldemort actually is, and that is if they knew it in the first place...
Pity
@@Phoenix-King-ozai Voldemort was never a badass. He was the biggest coward of the series, he couldn't kill a baby, failed to kill the teenage version of that baby numerous times, and couldn't even take over a school. Meanwhile grindelwald conquered half if Europe and was feared all over the world.
@@jasonblahafitness5492 Book Voldemort would massacre Gellert Grindelwald in a Nano Second
Voldemort almost KILLED an Elderwand welding Albus Dumbledore
Gellert Grindelwald was too much of a coward to face Dumbledore even when HE had the Elderwand
Voldemort raised an army under an Elderwand welding Albus Dumbledore's Nose for 3 decades
Grindewald was scared SHITLESS of Britain because of Albus Dumbledore even when HE had the Elderwand
He only "Took over " Europe because he didn't have Dumbledore on his ass
You are one to talk about Voldemort being a coward when Grindewald was deliberately trying not to provoke Dumbledore even with the Elderwand
If you don't know why he couldn't kill Harry
You don't Know SHIT about ANYTHING
And are just a Grindewald Fanboy
Well, your Hero is a Weakling, Voldemort would Crush him like a Bug
So I can understand why you live in such a Delusional world
You are allowed to worship your hero, Gellert Grindelwald, that's your right...
But you can't bullshit your way out of your insecurities about your hero by lying about better Wizards to make him look good
Voldemort is more powerful and evil and Grindlewald is more intelligent than the dark lord
And also Voldemort can kill Grindlewald but the latter can kill Voldemort due to his horcruxes
I would say Voldermort in a crazy, long lasting duel
Dumbledore beat Grindelwald who had the elder wand, and Dumbledore struggled against Voldermort when he had the elder wand, the book even describes Dumbledore sounding terrified when he told Harry to stay back, which shows just how much he was struggling to beat Voldermort
In fact, the only reason Voldermort fled was because the aurors showed up, and there was definitely more Aurors then what Grindelwald fought, plus the order of the phoenix was incoming so he'd have to deal with them, the aurors and Dumbledore (the latter he'd probably lose to in the long run anyway)
Dumbledore only seemed to be afraid as he didn't want to underestimate voldemort. Plus Voldemort had his Horcruxes which is why regardless who is better(Voldemort or Grindelwald), dumbledore wouldn't be able to kill him.
@@swaggerjackish That's a fair point, but I do think a part of Dumbledore's fear was because he was astounded at how powerful Voldemort had become. But even if he did have his Horcruxes, his body would be destroyed and he would be reduced to a spirit like he was when he failed to kill Harry for the first time, so that would sort of count as victory, I think Dumbledore would've won in the end and that would have been the case
Read order of the phoenix, Dumbledore never struggled against Voldemort.
Albus Dumbledore needed Fawkes to save him from Lord Voldemort's killing curse. Had Fawkes not been present, Dumbledore most likely could have died. Dumbledore couldn't defeat Voldemort in combat, because combat was where Voldemort thrived. Dumbledore only saw combat as a last resort, while Voldemort straight up enjoyed it.
@@CulturalMarxist4985 you must be crazy because everyone knows voldy actually fled from ministry because he knew he wouldn't be able to defeat Dumbledore in actual combat, which books were you reading all this time?
Voldemort couldn't even kill a baby
Voldemort is more powerful. but Grindlewald is more dangerous. Grindlewald plays with tactics. he know how to play the game better.
GRINDELWALD!!!WTF!!!???poor gellert grindelwald,no one can name him correctly...