I for one appreciate your willingness to stir the pot when you hear bullshit. Solid channel , open information is the foundation of a good community . Thanks for sharing your knowledge.
i have gained compression by doing thinner base gaskets and pop up pistons with mild port work. I agree its still not as good a true built machined saw. ill get a metal lathe one day. thanks for all your info has helped alot.
I'm with you John. I do my machining by hand and proud of it. Because my largest saw build was a 046, those numbers blew my mind, but Pat explained it to me. Very interesting build.
Yeah I couldn't believe that when I heard that only hacks cut by hand... as long as the end result is the same its irrelevant how we got there... I have a boring bar and face plate to mount cylinders... I just prefer to do it by hand turning the jug on the mandrel 🤷♂️
@@johnscustomsaws Yep. End results rule. My first by hand jug decking was .001" out measuring the squish four ways. My last was .002". So, I really don't give a care what anyone thinks.
Hi mate, i am wondering if you have ever opened up any of the new Stihl battery chainsaws & seen or can show whats under the hood of those & what makes them tick & also whats your thoughts are on those? I have only worked with petrol saws stihl & husky all my life, the Stihl battery saws are new to me but their power output is unreal.
9:50 if you remove the base gasket that will increase compression. Not sure how much but you should test it. Then compare that to a machined block and see.
For sure u'r gonna gain much more compression by decking the cylinder, but for a "light" portwork like an absolute beginner like me would do deleting the base gasket is gonna be enough. My opinion, my ignorance apparently, but also Tinman's thinking.
@@alessandromonizza8283 I agree that a simple muffler mod and probably a base gasket delete are stupid simple things just about anyone can easily do without a major issue or damage to there saw. Your not gonna get 10 10ths out of the motor but those two things will surly help over stock.
Trapper Scotty, Alaska. Wow, found a new favorite channel! Awesome, shared knowledge, cool logo, guitar riffs, this is good shit bro. Running custom 044, 460 and 660 at trappers firewood. Would love to own your 461 build. I know when a guy knows his shit, thanx for sharing with us John
@@johnscustomsaws I bucked over 2000 cords a year with 461s in north pole for wood brothers firewood. I'm a bucker not a builder. I love running hot saws, my life depends on Rod's saw shop in Fairbanks AK. Those boys keep me rockin. I bring the big saws and bars ice carving competition. I bought the 044 in 1985 for cutting through 4' of ice to beaver trap. I use my "legend" daily. I'm a STIHL guy period .
@@TrapperScottyAlaskan oh hell yeah brother i love to hear stories like that... absolutely badass... i have a stihl heart myself and i mix 2 stroke oil with my coffee... its just in my blood.. dont ever be offended by my lack of a filter i am what they call clinically insane... i just love sharing my passion for these saws and hearing from others like yourself that have their own experiences is what its all about... and hopefully we can have a good time along the way!!!
@@johnscustomsaws wish your shop was local, I'd be hanging out. In a way this is almost as cool.im Irish and allergic to alcohol too, I break out with trouble. I'm over it know. I'm betting you were a hockey player ?
Unfortunately I don’t have the machines to do that kind of work!😢... but on the subject I have a question.... does a pop up piston/ gasket delete increase compression?! Or is this not really significant in gains??🤔
I'm with you John on a saw building more compression while it's running...why don't you prove our theory put a compression tester in the deccomp hole and run the saw and show if compression goes up with rpm
I am now aware that some legendary saw guru has went rounds about this and I don't want to beat a dead horse its not me... I think its a dishonest statement tho and I can prove that a saw can't create real world torque under RPMs without having the foundation (compression) in the first place... I stick by my statement its just such a never-ending argument to try to take attention away from what matters.. I have a hell of an offer for you guys tho and I think you will realize im not out to be malicious... im trying to help people that have gotten brainwashed into believing someone that they trusted
One more thing I do have saw that runs on small bar but is for little stuff for the most part like 99% I run my 461 with a 32” bar that’s the way I roll ,!,!
The only way could see you gain any extra compression with out machining. Would be custom piston or different piston from another saw. But then your messing with all your other numbers. In the end are you saving money. Plus one saw maybe different than another. Basic in the end what the result. A runner or a turd.
Thank you John. Question: If one drops the cylinder, it automatically increases the intake duration, sometimes a bit too much, (which happened with one of my experiments) , , is there any way to correct that issue. I agree about machining, without it, one cannot optimize performance. [ I run it the way it is, (only a little blow-back at low RPM) ]
Ya you dont get much from not using the base gasket but Id think you get some. I just rebuilt my 268xp and didnt install the base gasket. I got 150 psi with .038" squish. Thought that was pretty good.
150 is not bad but I will go in depth on it just know its all in love man... someone is feeding people a line of shit... trust me run one of my saws or the guys I know that build saws and its a different animal... 150 really isn't bad tho... that will get it done... I only run 185 to 195 which is decent but guys run way over 200 psi and I just do it different but the compression needs to be increased or you are just moving air... compression IS related to "power" its not everything and yes every "give" has its "take" but production guys want the saw to run big bars and get thru the cut fast and it takes compression to do it thats not hate its just true.. love ya Frank don't hate the messenger buddy
@@johnscustomsaws brother no hate. This is my first saw Ive rebuilt. I am learning from you and appreciate you sharing your knowledge. I was under the impression that the bearings couldnt handle too much psi. I wanted to be a small engine mechanic and went to college for that but there wasnt enough work in my town so I became a welder. Fixing things is a hobby now. Plus I am poor so I do things as cheap as I can. My rebuild cost me $30. Crank seals and a 50mm ring. I try to make the best of my situation. Knowledge is what Im looking for so when I become rich it will all come together. LOL . Cheers brother
@@johnscustomsaws I remember reading that high psi can actually steal power since the engine has to work harder to compress that much air. High psi is good for mid torque but at high rpm losses power or something like that. I read that somewhere for 2 stroke performance.
@@FishFind3000 that's good as well. I checked at 10 minutes of run time. I have only run 2 tanks of gas through it so far. I should check it again. I'm not sure the ring has set yet either. Do you have a channel as well. You can see mine if you click on my name. Cheers
Great vid, definitely wouldn't get to worked up over that. Anyone with a little common sense and understanding of 2 stroke motors will know that's pure BS. Don't let nonsense like that get to you.
Yeah it's too bad too because I don't know how this whole thing started and why it's such an argument I get that there's different ways to skin a cat... But I have not seen any of these saws running big bars in big wood... I don't understand what the theory is with super low compression but if you can explain it im all ears... I don't want to see these guys get taken advantage of... I don't know if it's on purpose or innocent but somebody is telling these guys some real bullshit
Yes you have to machine and run on a lathe If your going to run a 32” or 36 bar cutting a 12” log then small bar iam no longer but I do my far share cutting logs tree s ever 1 know runs a 32” or 36” bar and on top of that all these guys old timers did a lot of machine work on those Mac s huskies home lite pioneer etc etc any one who say they never machine these saw who run a 36 and lager bar or bigger are full of crap you do what work for you only thing that counts is that it cut big timber without choking in the cut ,,,!!!!!!!!!!!!👍😁❤️
As someone who uses multiple saws on a regular basis, I'm not understanding the point of a large saw running short bars. For a 20" bar I'd rather have a 50-60cc saw. Neat to see you building an 881. I have a 3120 with a 50" bar. The performance is underwhelming.
I run a 24" on my ported 592xp.. 10 pin sprocket and it cuts twice as fast as my ported 572xp wearing a 7pin. But to go to the 120cc class is foolish cause that's just completely different
Lol I have more than one video man... I like to show the builds in progress and share the results... nitrous saws and cool shit like that... you seem like a crybaby tho and i doubt you could handle a ported 881... the real ones don't act like punks when they are told "no"... but I can just block you thats cool...
@@briankennedy1313 Maybe watch more than one video before you start talking shit... I'm old school I don't Leave negative comments on anybody's page ever... I put my time in and I'm trying to help people by sharing what I've learned over 25 years of doing this... So if you don't like the content that's fine... but if you are gonna talk shit I'm gonna block you... Go watch these other guys do the same 372 build 600 times in a row... Realize that the way to make money on UA-cam is to keep people watching... I don't make the rules I just played a game buddy
@@johnscustomsaws Seems like he got butt hurt after you told him no new customers. Clearly you are a hack being full with work😂😂 I will be patiently waiting hoping to get a saw from you someday man.
Idk why people think tightening squish numbers/raising compression wouldn't equal more power. It's very well known and proven in the racing engine world that a higher compression ratio equals more power (Nascar, drag racing, or anything you can think of) so why would anyone not think that it would give a saw more power?
Trust me I feel the same way I just don't know where this came from or if it is literally people lying so they don't have any competition and these guys believed it... That would be a dirty move but any builder/production guy I know that's legit doesn't even know what to say when they are told about this theory... I thought these guys were trolling me but they are serious 😬
Don’t understand why people want to continue to drink the blue cool aid that they are being handed to create performance beyond OEM you need to machine the better an engine breaths and drink’s and exhaust’s the better the performance and that’s done through machining
I for one appreciate your willingness to stir the pot when you hear bullshit. Solid channel , open information is the foundation of a good community . Thanks for sharing your knowledge.
i have gained compression by doing thinner base gaskets and pop up pistons with mild port work. I agree its still not as good a true built machined saw. ill get a metal lathe one day. thanks for all your info has helped alot.
I'm with you John. I do my machining by hand and proud of it.
Because my largest saw build was a 046, those numbers blew my mind, but Pat explained it to me.
Very interesting build.
Yeah I couldn't believe that when I heard that only hacks cut by hand... as long as the end result is the same its irrelevant how we got there... I have a boring bar and face plate to mount cylinders... I just prefer to do it by hand turning the jug on the mandrel 🤷♂️
@@johnscustomsaws Yep. End results rule.
My first by hand jug decking was .001" out measuring the squish four ways. My last was .002". So, I really don't give a care what anyone thinks.
Love thwe channel....
Also I follow Guilty of Teesom and see his 661 has a LOT of power in the beried cut with a very big blade!
Love the channel keep it coming anybody who knows anything about saws knows you have to do machine work to make them run like that
Old moto trick for those angled spark plugs. Shim it so the spark plug gap is facing directly down. A bunch of little things add up
Appreciate your honesty. Thanks for some kick ass builds!
Fully ported not partly ported 😂 you got plenty of support buddy!
100% on the machine work John !!!
Yeah man 🤓 thx for bringing Back the NOS fire Action
Yeah man was that you that asked for that??? I couldn't remember who did but I listen to the people 💯💪😂
@@johnscustomsaws yeah man me myself and I asked for this epic moment of fire ✌️ greetings from Germany
Hi mate, i am wondering if you have ever opened up any of the new Stihl battery chainsaws & seen or can show whats under the hood of those & what makes them tick & also whats your thoughts are on those? I have only worked with petrol saws stihl & husky all my life, the Stihl battery saws are new to me but their power output is unreal.
9:50 if you remove the base gasket that will increase compression. Not sure how much but you should test it. Then compare that to a machined block and see.
For sure u'r gonna gain much more compression by decking the cylinder, but for a "light" portwork like an absolute beginner like me would do deleting the base gasket is gonna be enough. My opinion, my ignorance apparently, but also Tinman's thinking.
Someone once said "I have neither the time nor the crayons to explain it to you". I believe this is the right time to pass along this wisdom
@@alessandromonizza8283 I agree that a simple muffler mod and probably a base gasket delete are stupid simple things just about anyone can easily do without a major issue or damage to there saw. Your not gonna get 10 10ths out of the motor but those two things will surly help over stock.
I like your channel. What good looking power saw
New here, Nice ideas....strato mod is good theory, haven't seen that before...
Good morning John at it early in the morning
You know it... did the videos yesterday... had to load it twice lol
It was nice give me something to watch on my way to work
Damn them ports are looking like mirrors
Trapper Scotty, Alaska. Wow, found a new favorite channel! Awesome, shared knowledge, cool logo, guitar riffs, this is good shit bro. Running custom 044, 460 and 660 at trappers firewood. Would love to own your 461 build. I know when a guy knows his shit, thanx for sharing with us John
hey i appreciate it bud... stay warm up there... i am freezing my balls off down in minnesota but i feel like a little b!t$h telling you that lol
@@johnscustomsaws I bucked over 2000 cords a year with 461s in north pole for wood brothers firewood. I'm a bucker not a builder. I love running hot saws, my life depends on Rod's saw shop in Fairbanks AK. Those boys keep me rockin. I bring the big saws and bars ice carving competition. I bought the 044 in 1985 for cutting through 4' of ice to beaver trap. I use my "legend" daily. I'm a STIHL guy period .
@@TrapperScottyAlaskan oh hell yeah brother i love to hear stories like that... absolutely badass... i have a stihl heart myself and i mix 2 stroke oil with my coffee... its just in my blood.. dont ever be offended by my lack of a filter i am what they call clinically insane... i just love sharing my passion for these saws and hearing from others like yourself that have their own experiences is what its all about... and hopefully we can have a good time along the way!!!
@@johnscustomsaws wish your shop was local, I'd be hanging out. In a way this is almost as cool.im Irish and allergic to alcohol too, I break out with trouble. I'm over it know. I'm betting you were a hockey player ?
Unfortunately I don’t have the machines to do that kind of work!😢... but on the subject I have a question.... does a pop up piston/ gasket delete increase compression?! Or is this not really significant in gains??🤔
I'm with you John on a saw building more compression while it's running...why don't you prove our theory put a compression tester in the deccomp hole and run the saw and show if compression goes up with rpm
I am now aware that some legendary saw guru has went rounds about this and I don't want to beat a dead horse its not me... I think its a dishonest statement tho and I can prove that a saw can't create real world torque under RPMs without having the foundation (compression) in the first place... I stick by my statement its just such a never-ending argument to try to take attention away from what matters.. I have a hell of an offer for you guys tho and I think you will realize im not out to be malicious... im trying to help people that have gotten brainwashed into believing someone that they trusted
@@johnscustomsaws Agreed.
One more thing I do have saw that runs on small bar but is for little stuff for the most part like 99% I run my 461 with a 32” bar that’s the way I roll ,!,!
The only way could see you gain any extra compression with out machining. Would be custom piston or different piston from another saw. But then your messing with all your other numbers. In the end are you saving money. Plus one saw maybe different than another. Basic in the end what the result. A runner or a turd.
Thank you John. Question: If one drops the cylinder, it automatically increases the intake duration, sometimes a bit too much, (which happened with one of my experiments) , , is there any way to correct that issue. I agree about machining, without it, one cannot optimize performance. [ I run it the way it is, (only a little blow-back at low RPM) ]
@CavemanSaws Thanks
Nostrils and tonsils and mouths, oh my! Will you need to run the decomp on this big saw?
I dont use decompression valves... tears hell on recoil pawls but they are cheap lol
Ya you dont get much from not using the base gasket but Id think you get some. I just rebuilt my 268xp and didnt install the base gasket. I got 150 psi with .038" squish. Thought that was pretty good.
150 is not bad but I will go in depth on it just know its all in love man... someone is feeding people a line of shit... trust me run one of my saws or the guys I know that build saws and its a different animal... 150 really isn't bad tho... that will get it done... I only run 185 to 195 which is decent but guys run way over 200 psi and I just do it different but the compression needs to be increased or you are just moving air... compression IS related to "power" its not everything and yes every "give" has its "take" but production guys want the saw to run big bars and get thru the cut fast and it takes compression to do it thats not hate its just true.. love ya Frank don't hate the messenger buddy
@@johnscustomsaws brother no hate. This is my first saw Ive rebuilt. I am learning from you and appreciate you sharing your knowledge. I was under the impression that the bearings couldnt handle too much psi. I wanted to be a small engine mechanic and went to college for that but there wasnt enough work in my town so I became a welder. Fixing things is a hobby now. Plus I am poor so I do things as cheap as I can. My rebuild cost me $30. Crank seals and a 50mm ring. I try to make the best of my situation. Knowledge is what Im looking for so when I become rich it will all come together. LOL . Cheers brother
@@johnscustomsaws I remember reading that high psi can actually steal power since the engine has to work harder to compress that much air. High psi is good for mid torque but at high rpm losses power or something like that. I read that somewhere for 2 stroke performance.
I got 164psi on a stock ms362c-m with maybe 10 or so hours on it.
@@FishFind3000 that's good as well. I checked at 10 minutes of run time. I have only run 2 tanks of gas through it so far. I should check it again. I'm not sure the ring has set yet either. Do you have a channel as well. You can see mine if you click on my name. Cheers
What 2 cycle oil do you recommend for a stock 500i
Great vid, definitely wouldn't get to worked up over that. Anyone with a little common sense and understanding of 2 stroke motors will know that's pure BS. Don't let nonsense like that get to you.
Machine or not machine..that is the question 😂😂...it's a shit show...lol...can't wait for the vid ..feelings will be hurt🤣🤣🤙🏻🪓😎
Yeah it's too bad too because I don't know how this whole thing started and why it's such an argument I get that there's different ways to skin a cat... But I have not seen any of these saws running big bars in big wood... I don't understand what the theory is with super low compression but if you can explain it im all ears... I don't want to see these guys get taken advantage of... I don't know if it's on purpose or innocent but somebody is telling these guys some real bullshit
@@johnscustomsaws I agree 💯%
Yes you have to machine and run on a lathe If your going to run a 32” or 36 bar cutting a 12” log then small bar iam no longer but I do my far share cutting logs tree s ever 1 know runs a 32” or 36” bar and on top of that all these guys old timers did a lot of machine work on those Mac s huskies home lite pioneer etc etc any one who say they never machine these saw who run a 36 and lager bar or bigger are full of crap you do what work for you only thing that counts is that it cut big timber without choking in the cut ,,,!!!!!!!!!!!!👍😁❤️
👍
Hey John! Have you or have you heard of someone doing those nostrils on a 372 x torque? Thanks! 🤟
how about the price howmuch?
As someone who uses multiple saws on a regular basis, I'm not understanding the point of a large saw running short bars. For a 20" bar I'd rather have a 50-60cc saw.
Neat to see you building an 881. I have a 3120 with a 50" bar. The performance is underwhelming.
I run a 24" on my ported 592xp.. 10 pin sprocket and it cuts twice as fast as my ported 572xp wearing a 7pin. But to go to the 120cc class is foolish cause that's just completely different
Is there any way to get more compression out of a clamshell?
@CavemanSaws where do you remove material?
Too bad Im not closer to you. I could custom build an intake .
Oh sorry nevermind I thought this channel had a purpose for a second. “Here’s the unfinished saw, here’s the finished one. Watch it cut.”
Lol I have more than one video man... I like to show the builds in progress and share the results... nitrous saws and cool shit like that... you seem like a crybaby tho and i doubt you could handle a ported 881... the real ones don't act like punks when they are told "no"... but I can just block you thats cool...
@@johnscustomsaws you actually have videos with a step by step process?
@@johnscustomsaws anyone who would block someone for that harmless comment thinks it’s cool to block people. YOURE the example of class. Right.
@@briankennedy1313 Maybe watch more than one video before you start talking shit... I'm old school I don't Leave negative comments on anybody's page ever... I put my time in and I'm trying to help people by sharing what I've learned over 25 years of doing this... So if you don't like the content that's fine... but if you are gonna talk shit I'm gonna block you... Go watch these other guys do the same 372 build 600 times in a row... Realize that the way to make money on UA-cam is to keep people watching... I don't make the rules I just played a game buddy
@@johnscustomsaws Seems like he got butt hurt after you told him no new customers. Clearly you are a hack being full with work😂😂 I will be patiently waiting hoping to get a saw from you someday man.
So do you work on anyone’s saw? Where are you located?
Minnesota my man... I am not taking on new customers sorry... the UA-cam stuff is the "extra" projects I do but I build saws for people full time
Dude I wanna see that thing in some wood
Idk why people think tightening squish numbers/raising compression wouldn't equal more power. It's very well known and proven in the racing engine world that a higher compression ratio equals more power (Nascar, drag racing, or anything you can think of) so why would anyone not think that it would give a saw more power?
Trust me I feel the same way I just don't know where this came from or if it is literally people lying so they don't have any competition and these guys believed it... That would be a dirty move but any builder/production guy I know that's legit doesn't even know what to say when they are told about this theory... I thought these guys were trolling me but they are serious 😬
Don’t understand why people want to continue to drink the blue cool aid that they are being handed to create performance beyond OEM you need to machine the better an engine breaths and drink’s and exhaust’s the better the performance and that’s done through machining
Funtime sawrus Trees-R-Us
Pffffftttttt. The only people who think machine work doesn't help are the people who don't have a lathe. OR.... don't know how to use it. Lol
Damn straight
How drunk do you have to be to think you can add compression (torq) without machining😂😂