Hello Britalians, thanks for watching! 🔔SUBSCRIBE ➜ bit.ly/SBUA-cam⛵ Get more info about this job, including a parts list and prices here: ➜ www.patreon.com/posts/103722912 Join our Patreon Crew here! (Check out our TREASURE CHEST!) ➜ www.patreon.com/SailingBritaly Buying a boat? Read this FREE ebook first, and save yourself lots of money: ➜ www.boatbuyingblueprint.com God bless and fair winds! Chris, Rossella & Emma 😊
I love dyneema rigging. It "de-industrializes" the pursuit and brings us back to skills that once defined sailing. It puts power back into the hands of sailors and reduces dependence on expensive shop equipment that has only one use.
I love to be independent wherever possible and I feel that having half a reel of this left on board is a great insurance policy for dealing with any unexpected breakages which may occur on a passage. Being able to splice with minimal tools makes for a huge amount of versatility. Fair winds, Chris 👍
OMG so true! Never thought about it like that.. Sadly all those old skills are falling by the wayside. I have quite a few old books on rigging & the 'arts' of a sailor.. And I find it relaxing to work with all sorts of rope types just using my hands & a fid set 😊
Mate, I have no idea how I have only just stumbled across your channel. Seriously amazing content! Your sail drive seal video is top notch, then this!! I have no idea why you don't have more subs. Total respect for keeping your channel real, I'm a single dad, daughter loves sailing but gets bored with the tech parts so it is super tricky to manage the maintenance whilst keeping the wee one happy. Massive respect to you and your family!
Thanks Paul, sporadic posting of videos probably doesn't help with the YT algorithm, but it's amazing that nearly 40k people have clicked on the subscribe button to date. I hope you enjoy our future vids (It's 2 am here and I'm awake editing the next one!...) God bless & fair winds, Chris 👍
3:30 As the dyneema is quite a bit smaller than the hole in the stanchion, I used a 50mm section of vinyl tube that was a tight fit in the stanchion. Good job.
I'm very happy to hear that Ray, good luck with the job and thank you for helping us produce our videos! Very best regards, Chris 👍 (Plus Rossella & Emma)
Nicely done Chris. When I started sailing my mentor made sure I knew many knots, bends, hitches and splices including decorative work. Not sure I could do any splices or the decorative work any more but about a dozen of the more useful knots were burnt into my brain and I still use some today.
It sounds like you had a great mentor John. Whenever I learn new knots / splices I'm also always thinking of and am grateful to all the previous generations for having worked out and passed on this old, borderless knowledge. Chris 👍
Great reference video! Wonderful stuff Dyneema and it's variants. It use to be so expensive but now much more attainable - strong and corrosion free, UV resistant, soft with low abrasion, what's not to like. Well done.
Great video! It covered everything I was looking to do with my life lines. I also have other projects looming so it's on the back burner for a couple of weeks but, I'll be referencing this video when I tackle the job! I was going to connect it to my little shiny turnbuckles but this actually seems like an easier go.
Great to have you back Chris - I've used quite a few of your tips over the years and bought some of the same tools as you have (the Titan vacuum is still going strong and I've even used it to pump water out of the dinghy and part inflate it as well!). Practical, common sense stuff, many thanks!
Loved watching this video, very useful. Not a dyneema expert at all but I think there’s special dyneema anti-chafe sleeve you can use to protect it where it goes through.
Hi Stephan, thank you! Yes you're right, you can get sleeving to help avoid chafe. We'll keep an eye on where the lifelines pass through the stanchions to see if any chafe occurs. If it does we'll add some protection. Chris 👍
I'm very happy with these Alf, if you check out the link in the pinned comment with costings, it was actually a pretty cheap job to do too. Cheers, Chris 👍
@SailingBritaly thanks for this DIY video. Love listening to you doing the project and evaluating pros and cons. It's a joy. To me, you are the Bob Ross of boatwork ;-)
Hi Leo, thank you very much indeed! And thank you for helping us to keep making our videos. We hope life is good for you and Ingrid in Vienna. Very best regards, Chris 👍 (Plus Rossella & Emma)
Hi, good video. I did this some time ago. A few comments that I hope will add to your video. 1. The strength of Dyneema means that even 6 mm will be stronger than s/s wire. But on my top guardrail I’ve used 8 mm as it “looks” better! 2. I use split poly tubing over the Dyneema where it runs through the stanchions. 3. One should use “closed” thimbles for Dyneema, just as for s/s wire. Only slightly more expensive. 4. I also use a combination of cowhitch and lanyard to tension the guardrails. I don’t share the concerns voiced by some of how difficult Dyneema is to cut. You only need to cut one strand. A sharp knife will do the job. The “stretch worry” is solved by the lanyard. 5. Finally, I also use single strand Dyneema. Agree that it is incredibly easy to splice. Enjoy your canal trip!
Hi there, thank you. :-) I have looked into this but we've decided to replace like for like. We're unstepping the mast for the Inland Waterways, so we can take this opportunity to post our old rigging to Jimmy Green Marine and they can make up our new rigging ready for us to fit when we arrive in the Mediterranean. Fair winds, Chris 👍
Lovely job Chris, if it was my choice I wouldn’t use dynema for the lashings. In the event of a MOB you’d want to be able to cut the lashing with a bread knife or what ever comes to hand, as you know you’ll struggle to cut the lashings without a ceramic knife. Para cord or the like would be better. I will also be doing this job on my Bavaria 320 Glad you’re back!
Hi there, thanks for watching & commenting. It does actually cut with Poundland-esque box cutter (like I used in this video). If you have a knife capable of cutting a sheet or halyard, it will make short work of a lashing if you want it cut. Bear in mind the original stainless lifelines can't be cut with a knife... I hope you enjoy this job as much as I did. Check the pinned comment for competitively priced Dyneema. Cheers, Chris 👍
@SailingBritaly To add to you 1T of tools you might want a decent set of Scissors. D16 from Premium Ropes or Scissors for FibreOptic cable work well. Reserve them for Dyneema ie keep them for best. No one can have too many tools can they?
Hi Greg, yes the proper scissors for Dyneema are very handy. I used to use them when reterminating ROV umbilicals and fibre-optics. You can never, ever have too many tools... :-) Cheers, Chris 👍
Thanks Richie. I suppose you could but there is no need as you can easily get tension on with the lashing. If I wanted to I could easily get enough tension on these to bend the stanchions inboard... Chris 👍
welcome back! Dynema is very strong, but it is also not UV resistant and after a few years it breaks down and loses its strength. What are your experiences?
Thank you! I had it on a 4x4 winch about a decade ago and loved it. Only time will tell in this application, but Herb over at The Rigging Doctor has had his standing rigging in place for 9 years with no UV covers and it's still good, so I reckon these lifelines will last 5 years at least. Total cost was $135 USD, so that's good value in my mind. Cheers, Chris 👍
I was under the impression Dyneema was quiet UV resistant and should last a long while. As @SailingBritaly uses 6mm this is well over spec breaking strength wise for this. Chaffe or heat damage from rubbing with sheets is likely to be the main issue over time.
Thanks for the video. Could you do an update in a years time on how it's faired. I'd be really interested to see if you tie your fenders off them or the stanchions whether they'll chafe through or not.
I can post updates no problem. Bear in mind these are standard fit items on many new boats these days... For example Gone with the Wynns' new catamaran has Dyneema lifelines and I doubt that the factory would fit these if fender lines chafe through them in a year. Fair winds, Chris 👍
@@SailingBritaly Ah really?! I didn't know they're factory fitted these day. Now you've mentioned it I'll probably see them everywhere now :D Cheers for the reply . T
...and it floats, so it'll never get caught around your prop. I see a lot of comment about UV. As I understand it, it is very UV resistant. There is a good reason that insurance companies life ss rigging at 10 years. Ss is great until it isn't, you won't know when that will be because the failure is usually hidden.
How do you counter the UV damage? We use dyneema for our dinghy davits and oversize it considerably (about 10mm) to allow for the effects of UV damage. However, we only get a few years before we need to replace it or shorten the lines. We cover the winch every-time to minimize exposure to the sun.
Hi there, I'm not sure what kind of dyneema you're using and if there is any chafe involved at all, but this is how the seller described the product we bought: "This rope is made up of a 12 strand construction, easy to splice and has excellent resistance to UV light and chemicals. Manufactured with a durable coating to extend the life of this rope. Dyneema Rope High Strength Low Weight High Strength Easy to Splice UV resistance" Of course, sellers have an axe to grind, so only time will tell how this lasts in the real world given our unique set of circumstances. One thing I would say is that if you're using 10 mm Dyneema for your dinghy, this has a breaking strain of something like 10,000 kg. So perhaps even if a section of it is looking very 'fuzzy' and worn, you will still have a huge amount of load carrying capacity in the undamaged internal fibres which have been protected from UV damage by the outer fibres: Perhaps you can leave it longer before replacing / shortening it? Fair winds, Chris 👍
The 10mm allows for extended life before change out. No chaffing. The cover for the winch protects the majority of the dyneema, other than whats in the sun. We use a couple of soft shackles and these suffer the most. Had one totally fail, but we have a minimum of 4 secure points for the dinghy and the other 3 held. Changed the lot out and do so every couple of years as a precaution. The dyneema seller stated it was UV resistant. A sailmaker colleague has recommended that we should sheave the dyneema with an outer cover.
Nice & calm spoken video Chris, what I did ‘Dyneemanizing’ my Corsair-31 trimaran:consider using a Dremel and special polishing bit (much smoother and quicker) and shove 10-15 cm purpose made Dyneema anti chafe sleeves over the stanchion parts (iso the whipping) and where you ‘usually’ step over when going on/off boat and when sheets touch. and maybe use closed thimbles to prevent compression chafe (esp when you do standing rigging) there will be a setting and stretching up to 2% of length. So I guesstimate about 10-15 cm in your case. Allow the lashing for that. (They will also grow…..) I find 50-60x diameter and 10 cm taper will do fine in a LOCKED Brummel. have a safe season! youtube.com/@robertdevries-trimaran-sailing?si=dJJ-yEyXKkYkHkXy
I left around 8" of space for the lashings, so I guess there's room for up to about 6" of constructional stretch. They seem good so far: time will tell! 👍
Have you ever tried cold shrink instead of heat shrink? 3M make it and it's a pretty good alternative when you want to cover something heat sensitive, or it's awkward to actually apply heat due to location.
Hi Tom, this particular Dyneema is described thus: "This rope is made up of a 12 strand construction, easy to splice and has excellent resistance to UV light and chemicals. Manufactured with a durable coating to extend the life of this rope. Dyneema Rope High Strength Low Weight High Strength Easy to Splice UV resistance" Of course UV will have some effect, but the flipside is that it will not be subject to crevice corrosion in areas where seawater is present, unlike stainless wire & terminals. HI'm happy we went down this route but I guess we'll see how we feel 5 years from now. Cheers, Chris 👍
Hello Britalians, thanks for watching! 🔔SUBSCRIBE ➜ bit.ly/SBUA-cam⛵
Get more info about this job, including a parts list and prices here:
➜ www.patreon.com/posts/103722912
Join our Patreon Crew here! (Check out our TREASURE CHEST!)
➜ www.patreon.com/SailingBritaly
Buying a boat? Read this FREE ebook first, and save yourself lots of money:
➜ www.boatbuyingblueprint.com
God bless and fair winds!
Chris, Rossella & Emma 😊
I love dyneema rigging. It "de-industrializes" the pursuit and brings us back to skills that once defined sailing. It puts power back into the hands of sailors and reduces dependence on expensive shop equipment that has only one use.
I love to be independent wherever possible and I feel that having half a reel of this left on board is a great insurance policy for dealing with any unexpected breakages which may occur on a passage. Being able to splice with minimal tools makes for a huge amount of versatility. Fair winds, Chris 👍
OMG so true! Never thought about it like that.. Sadly all those old skills are falling by the wayside. I have quite a few old books on rigging & the 'arts' of a sailor.. And I find it relaxing to work with all sorts of rope types just using my hands & a fid set 😊
Mate, I have no idea how I have only just stumbled across your channel. Seriously amazing content! Your sail drive seal video is top notch, then this!! I have no idea why you don't have more subs. Total respect for keeping your channel real, I'm a single dad, daughter loves sailing but gets bored with the tech parts so it is super tricky to manage the maintenance whilst keeping the wee one happy. Massive respect to you and your family!
Thanks Paul, sporadic posting of videos probably doesn't help with the YT algorithm, but it's amazing that nearly 40k people have clicked on the subscribe button to date. I hope you enjoy our future vids (It's 2 am here and I'm awake editing the next one!...) God bless & fair winds, Chris 👍
3:30 As the dyneema is quite a bit smaller than the hole in the stanchion, I used a 50mm section of vinyl tube that was a tight fit in the stanchion. Good job.
Good stuff Graeme, thank you for sharing. 👍
Ever heard of anyone using something like plastidip or flex seal as chafe coating on dyneema?
Great job Chris. Your video is timely as I’ve got a similar job on my 31ft moody.
I'm very happy to hear that Ray, good luck with the job and thank you for helping us produce our videos! Very best regards, Chris 👍 (Plus Rossella & Emma)
Nice to have you back! Great video!
Thank you Patrick! 👍
Nicely done Chris. When I started sailing my mentor made sure I knew many knots, bends, hitches and splices including decorative work. Not sure I could do any splices or the decorative work any more but about a dozen of the more useful knots were burnt into my brain and I still use some today.
It sounds like you had a great mentor John. Whenever I learn new knots / splices I'm also always thinking of and am grateful to all the previous generations for having worked out and passed on this old, borderless knowledge. Chris 👍
Great reference video! Wonderful stuff Dyneema and it's variants. It use to be so expensive but now much more attainable - strong and corrosion free, UV resistant, soft with low abrasion, what's not to like. Well done.
Thank you very much Bob! God bless & fair winds, Chris 👍
Great video! It covered everything I was looking to do with my life lines. I also have other projects looming so it's on the back burner for a couple of weeks but, I'll be referencing this video when I tackle the job! I was going to connect it to my little shiny turnbuckles but this actually seems like an easier go.
I'm glad you found this helpful Robert. Good luck with your refit, God bless and fair winds! Chris 👍
Great to have you back Chris - I've used quite a few of your tips over the years and bought some of the same tools as you have (the Titan vacuum is still going strong and I've even used it to pump water out of the dinghy and part inflate it as well!). Practical, common sense stuff, many thanks!
My pleasure Michael, I love our Titan shop vac - cheap as chips but very dependable. Cheers, Chris 👍
Loved watching this video, very useful. Not a dyneema expert at all but I think there’s special dyneema anti-chafe sleeve you can use to protect it where it goes through.
Hi Stephan, thank you! Yes you're right, you can get sleeving to help avoid chafe. We'll keep an eye on where the lifelines pass through the stanchions to see if any chafe occurs. If it does we'll add some protection. Chris 👍
Nice job with a good explanation. Sail Safe Guys, Ant & Cid
Thank you Ant & Cid - thank you also for your hookah vids. Tempting if I can find some space on board... God bless and fair winds, Chris 👍
Cool. Herb at the Rigging Doctor. Me too. Really enjoyed your video sir. Thanks.
Great job mate as always a top vid...and definitely worth thinking about doing the standing rigging too.
Thank you mate! We'll renew the rigging after the inland waterway journey... Fair winds! Chris 👍
Very nice, I think I will do the same on my own boat. I need to replace the lifelines anyway, might as well do it prop' ly.
I'm very happy with these Alf, if you check out the link in the pinned comment with costings, it was actually a pretty cheap job to do too. Cheers, Chris 👍
@SailingBritaly thanks for this DIY video. Love listening to you doing the project and evaluating pros and cons. It's a joy. To me, you are the Bob Ross of boatwork ;-)
Hi Leo, thank you very much indeed! And thank you for helping us to keep making our videos. We hope life is good for you and Ingrid in Vienna. Very best regards, Chris 👍 (Plus Rossella & Emma)
Hi, good video. I did this some time ago. A few comments that I hope will add to your video.
1. The strength of Dyneema means that even 6 mm will be stronger than s/s wire. But on my top guardrail I’ve used 8 mm as it “looks” better!
2. I use split poly tubing over the Dyneema where it runs through the stanchions.
3. One should use “closed” thimbles for Dyneema, just as for s/s wire. Only slightly more expensive.
4. I also use a combination of cowhitch and lanyard to tension the guardrails. I don’t share the concerns voiced by some of how difficult Dyneema is to cut. You only need to cut one strand. A sharp knife will do the job. The “stretch worry” is solved by the lanyard.
5. Finally, I also use single strand Dyneema. Agree that it is incredibly easy to splice.
Enjoy your canal trip!
Thanks for the comment and tips Bill. 🙂 Fair winds, Chris 👍
Excellent video and one that had no trouble at all watching all the way through! Are you planning on "upgrading" your standing rigging with dyneema?
Hi there, thank you. :-) I have looked into this but we've decided to replace like for like. We're unstepping the mast for the Inland Waterways, so we can take this opportunity to post our old rigging to Jimmy Green Marine and they can make up our new rigging ready for us to fit when we arrive in the Mediterranean. Fair winds, Chris 👍
Nice to have you back! Great video! I did the same a year before an realy happy
Glad to hear that! Cheers, Chris 👍
Lovely job Chris, if it was my choice I wouldn’t use dynema for the lashings. In the event of a MOB you’d want to be able to cut the lashing with a bread knife or what ever comes to hand, as you know you’ll struggle to cut the lashings without a ceramic knife.
Para cord or the like would be better.
I will also be doing this job on my Bavaria 320
Glad you’re back!
Hi there, thanks for watching & commenting. It does actually cut with Poundland-esque box cutter (like I used in this video). If you have a knife capable of cutting a sheet or halyard, it will make short work of a lashing if you want it cut. Bear in mind the original stainless lifelines can't be cut with a knife...
I hope you enjoy this job as much as I did. Check the pinned comment for competitively priced Dyneema. Cheers, Chris 👍
@SailingBritaly To add to you 1T of tools you might want a decent set of Scissors. D16 from Premium Ropes or Scissors for FibreOptic cable work well. Reserve them for Dyneema ie keep them for best. No one can have too many tools can they?
Hi Greg, yes the proper scissors for Dyneema are very handy. I used to use them when reterminating ROV umbilicals and fibre-optics. You can never, ever have too many tools... :-) Cheers, Chris 👍
Thanks, really appreciated your video
Wow, thank you so much Stephan, this is our first ever "Super Thanks"! Very best regards, Chris, Rossella & Emma 🙂
Great videos
Thank you Don 🙏
Bonjour ,
Belle astuce avec l’utilisation de la dynema.
Vous êtes toujours sur Nieuport?
On the point that a prone to have friction you can put a tube roller around the line.
Nice on Chris could you use the turn buckles with the dyneema and eye? Would be easier to tension..
Safe watch
Thanks Richie. I suppose you could but there is no need as you can easily get tension on with the lashing. If I wanted to I could easily get enough tension on these to bend the stanchions inboard... Chris 👍
great again
Thank you John! 🙏👍
welcome back!
Dynema is very strong, but it is also not UV resistant and after a few years it breaks down and loses its strength. What are your experiences?
Thank you! I had it on a 4x4 winch about a decade ago and loved it. Only time will tell in this application, but Herb over at The Rigging Doctor has had his standing rigging in place for 9 years with no UV covers and it's still good, so I reckon these lifelines will last 5 years at least. Total cost was $135 USD, so that's good value in my mind. Cheers, Chris 👍
I was under the impression Dyneema was quiet UV resistant and should last a long while. As @SailingBritaly uses 6mm this is well over spec breaking strength wise for this. Chaffe or heat damage from rubbing with sheets is likely to be the main issue over time.
i used plastic cable protector to slip ofet stantion areas.
Thanks for the video. Could you do an update in a years time on how it's faired. I'd be really interested to see if you tie your fenders off them or the stanchions whether they'll chafe through or not.
I can post updates no problem. Bear in mind these are standard fit items on many new boats these days... For example Gone with the Wynns' new catamaran has Dyneema lifelines and I doubt that the factory would fit these if fender lines chafe through them in a year. Fair winds, Chris 👍
@@SailingBritaly Ah really?! I didn't know they're factory fitted these day. Now you've mentioned it I'll probably see them everywhere now :D Cheers for the reply . T
...and it floats, so it'll never get caught around your prop. I see a lot of comment about UV. As I understand it, it is very UV resistant. There is a good reason that insurance companies life ss rigging at 10 years. Ss is great until it isn't, you won't know when that will be because the failure is usually hidden.
Very nice job. Have to do the same in some time
Thanks Henri, it's an enjoyable job. 👍
Wotcher! Welcome back!
Hi Ruaraidh, good to hear from you - hope you're well! Chris 👍
great work
Thank you Tibor, hope you're well! 👍
Damn u Chris.
I was surfing sailing vids in the bath and just about to get out when you came on.
Got freezing and had to top up with hot.😢
😂 Talk about full immersion viewing... Please remember my total lack of culpability when your next gas bill arrives. Cheers, Chris 👍
geat video thanks for sharing cheers
Thank you for watching & commenting Nicolas. :-) Chris 👍
How do you counter the UV damage? We use dyneema for our dinghy davits and oversize it considerably (about 10mm) to allow for the effects of UV damage. However, we only get a few years before we need to replace it or shorten the lines. We cover the winch every-time to minimize exposure to the sun.
Hi there,
I'm not sure what kind of dyneema you're using and if there is any chafe involved at all, but this is how the seller described the product we bought:
"This rope is made up of a 12 strand construction, easy to splice and has excellent resistance to UV light and chemicals.
Manufactured with a durable coating to extend the life of this rope.
Dyneema Rope
High Strength
Low Weight
High Strength
Easy to Splice
UV resistance"
Of course, sellers have an axe to grind, so only time will tell how this lasts in the real world given our unique set of circumstances.
One thing I would say is that if you're using 10 mm Dyneema for your dinghy, this has a breaking strain of something like 10,000 kg. So perhaps even if a section of it is looking very 'fuzzy' and worn, you will still have a huge amount of load carrying capacity in the undamaged internal fibres which have been protected from UV damage by the outer fibres: Perhaps you can leave it longer before replacing / shortening it?
Fair winds,
Chris 👍
The 10mm allows for extended life before change out. No chaffing. The cover for the winch protects the majority of the dyneema, other than whats in the sun. We use a couple of soft shackles and these suffer the most. Had one totally fail, but we have a minimum of 4 secure points for the dinghy and the other 3 held. Changed the lot out and do so every couple of years as a precaution. The dyneema seller stated it was UV resistant. A sailmaker colleague has recommended that we should sheave the dyneema with an outer cover.
Good video, try cutting the Dyneema with a ceramic knife, it's better. It's fine with the cheapest ceramic knife.
Thank you. I just used what I had on board - the cheap box cutter worked fine. Chris 👍
Nice & calm spoken video Chris, what I did ‘Dyneemanizing’ my Corsair-31 trimaran:consider using a Dremel and special polishing bit (much smoother and quicker) and shove 10-15 cm purpose made Dyneema anti chafe sleeves over the stanchion parts (iso the whipping) and where you ‘usually’ step over when going on/off boat and when sheets touch. and maybe use closed thimbles to prevent compression chafe (esp when you do standing rigging) there will be a setting and stretching up to 2% of length. So I guesstimate about 10-15 cm in your case. Allow the lashing for that. (They will also grow…..) I find 50-60x diameter and 10 cm taper will do fine in a LOCKED Brummel. have a safe season! youtube.com/@robertdevries-trimaran-sailing?si=dJJ-yEyXKkYkHkXy
Thank you for the tips Robert, fair winds! 👍
Just a little question? If tried Dyneema and its a great material but it does strech a lot, until its settles did you take this into consideration?
I left around 8" of space for the lashings, so I guess there's room for up to about 6" of constructional stretch. They seem good so far: time will tell! 👍
Have you ever tried cold shrink instead of heat shrink? 3M make it and it's a pretty good alternative when you want to cover something heat sensitive, or it's awkward to actually apply heat due to location.
Never heard of it but I'll definitely look it up - thank you very much for the tip! Chris 👍
Neat.
👍
No gate?
We were just replacing like for like: the original factory lifelines had no gate, so we went the same way.
Why not SS tubing? Dyneema degrades in sunlight.
Hi Tom, this particular Dyneema is described thus:
"This rope is made up of a 12 strand construction, easy to splice and has excellent resistance to UV light and chemicals.
Manufactured with a durable coating to extend the life of this rope.
Dyneema Rope
High Strength
Low Weight
High Strength
Easy to Splice
UV resistance"
Of course UV will have some effect, but the flipside is that it will not be subject to crevice corrosion in areas where seawater is present, unlike stainless wire & terminals.
HI'm happy we went down this route but I guess we'll see how we feel 5 years from now.
Cheers,
Chris 👍
:)
Cheers Jon! :-) :-) :-)
Metti telecamera a posto
In che senso Luigi?
@@SailingBritaly nel senso che non si vede niente