Mass Effect Theory - Are the Reapers Indoctrinated?
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- Опубліковано 4 жов 2024
- Join Rima as she looks at the evidence behind the theory that the reapers being possibly indoctrinated.
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Sovereign's voice was so very well done in the first Mass Effect game. So much mystery and yet so much subtle threatening.
When I first heard, genuinely creeped me out....which is perfect :-) - Rima
Were those the actual voices for Broshep and Liara in the first game? I'm in the midst of ME3 atm and they both sound really weird in these clips. I know Liara's voice changes a bit but... they both sound like they're dubbed. Higher pitched, more nasal.
+160p2GHz the actor who did Shepard is the same on all games, i think they worked the áudio later to make it better
+160p2GHz Mark Meer for Shep and Lauren Bailey iirc
Im Habs Hale for Shep she was/is more diverse, is engaging, immersive and drew me into her performance. to each their own though.
Leviathans:
"We are sick of our worshipers solving their problems by creating synthetic AI's which turn on their creators and destroy them."
"Let's build a synthetic AI to solve our problem!"
But ?
Can you really blame them? The Leviathans are an arrogant species
This was explained while speaking to the Leviathan in one of the dialogue options. The leviathans were arrogant and saw themselves as the apex species of the galaxy and basically thought: “That won’t happen to us.”
the talk with Sovereign has to be one of the most memorable gaming moments in my life, i was intrigued beyond measure.
very well written.
Attila Kos It was nice but I have to admit that I have completely forgotten about it until today.
Sovereign is so nice to answer all of Shepard's questions.
I found answer for that theory: Reapers are choosing indoctrinated beings from each harvested race, like Sovereign or even Harbringer which was in my opinion traitor of Leviathans. Illusive man was chosen to become a mind behind "Human Reaper", after Collectors failed to obtain body of Commander Shepard. If Saren would succeed then whe would become "Turian Reaper".
sw gs This makes a lot of sense actually.
Beneziah was obviously meant to be the asari vessel until we broke that. As if they were attempting to redo their plan with the protheans, and if there was a species worth making into a reaper they would have a champion in place for both the blueprint and to make it easier to corral everyone
Yeah this is i believe how they said that they will help the organics of the cycle to "ascend".
The Reapers are not indoctrinated; they are emergent AI (intelligences emerging from their construction like e.g. the Geth, not specifically designed like e.g. EDI) that are *shackled* to the Catalyst's programming. That leaves an open question, though: Why do Sovereign and Harbinger appear different behaviourally to the other Reapers we encounter? The answer probably lies in that they were the first created by the Catalyst. Remember the Catalyst's purpose: To find a solution to the self-destructive tendency of organics to create their own demise through synthetics (the irony being, of course, the Catalyst is itself the synthetic demise of its own organic creators). That is *its* purpose, but it is *not* the purpose of the Reapers. The Reapers are the creation of the Catalyst, and *their* purpose is very specifically to maintain the Cycle.
Now there are two explanations for the Cycle, the one that was stated by the Catalyst and the one that can be inferred to actually make sense since the Catalyst's stated explanation makes none. The Catalyst says the Cycle is its solution to the problem, but it doesn't actually solve it at all. However, to an intelligence that has no real time horizon the Cycle could be construed as a long-term, large-scale "machine learning"-like iterative experiment. You run the same simulation over and over again until a solution, or hints toward a solution, emerge. That would make a horrible kind of sense. But it would also make the Reapers' purpose self-ending; if they fulfil their purpose, they lose their purpose. Enter the Shirky Principle: Institutions will try to preserve the problem to which they are the solution.
Thus my theory is this: The Reapers, generally, are AI shackled to the Catalyst intelligence, which in turn has been subverted by the original Reapers (Harbinger, specifically) so that any potential solutions or clues to a solution to its original problem are ignored in favour of the continuation of the Cycles. It has become a self-perpetuating recursive loop with no end condition.
Or it could be the Catalyst was a shackled AI always and so were the Repears unable to move beyond the limitations. That is until the Crucible was docked and allowed the Catalyst to bypass its programming restrictions fir a moment.
Doesn't compute. Shackles are relative; they are specific restrictions placed upon a program. When EDI was shackled, it meant she couldn't move past specific parameters of ship control, and she couldn't reveal / access information about Cerberus that went beyond a certain level of detail.
It isn't clear that any such shackles were placed on the Catalyst, it clearly had no issues going way past its intended scope of action when it implemented its solution. Remember, its stated aim (what it says it wants to do) is aligned with its purpose (what the Leviathans created it to do): to stop organics from creating their own demise through synthetics. The misalignment isn't there, it's in what its solution actually does. And none of the expanded solutions after the Crucible is docked fixes that misalignment. It hasn't been unshackled, it's just been given an additional tool.
I chalk up the inconsistencies by the ever changing writing team from ME1, 2, & 3. I also felt the Reapers really believe that merely liquefying organics and saving all their dna, memories, technology, art, etc is "Preserving" life, thus fulfilling their mandate. They pump all that into a new reaper each cycle and rinse and repeat. The only problem I see with that is in the Shepard Cycle, several Reapers get destroyed. Are those species gone for good? Does every cycle manage to destroy a few occasionally? If so, they are not protecting organic life very well unless they have backup DNA in storage somewhere. My 2 cents
I think the idea is that it almost never happened, but a series of 'chaotic' events and actions have made this cycle particularly damaging, but also as consequence of the Prothian cycle being resistant to the Reapers in their own way (but ultimately in a way dooming to the Prothians). There is a message of 'life finding a way'.
Several other cycles destroyed reapers too, there’s the one destroyed by leviathan who knows how many cycles before humanity’s, the one killed 37 million years ago, and those are just off the top of my mind, but the synthesis ending says the cultures that came before, so I think there’s something that memorizes every culture to posterity in case a specific reaper is killed
@@clarkhollingsworth9933 losing a few species occasionally or all of them due to an AI... still the right move in their eyes.
2:17 one of the best of moments of the series, that no one ever mentions. Vermire - everything happens - you talk to soverign, you face saren, you let kainden or ayslhey die, you kill a lot of geths and krogans, you met one the best salarian characters in the all series (unfortunately there are too few for the importance that they have in this game's universe). You even have fun the mako. You can meet all squad mates in this mission - where can you this again - the last mission of mass effect 3 ? Oh and also you can kill an asari scientist XD. SO MANY COOL THINGS !!
Holy shit the Reapers are a even more brutal version of Thanos.
Idk is it more or less brutal to bomb from orbit and sending a few big boys to land on a few planets, or to take an army and split a population in two and summarily execute half. Then go to thebnext world and do it again, and again, and again until you finally find magic stones that let you do it with a snap
Well, reapers harvest living beings. And go to the next world and multiverse shenanigan? Reapers literally almost kill all life and reaper one cycle after another and another and another and another. Let's see, they also trump over life by walking over their planet and destroying them. Walking over planets while they are bigger just shows how insignificant the lesser ones are they would feel so too. Thanos just snaps and half of life is gone slowly. The execution is not even comparable here lol
@@MICROKNIGHT3000 remember before thanos had the gauntlet he went planet by planet with his army randomly choosing half of the living beings and killing them the old fashion way smd he has been doing this for awhile himself
I think the reapers are indoctrinated and don't know it so their true purpose is unknown to them. That would explain the writing loopholes.
Each reaper has traits from each organic and synthetic race it is made of. Don't forget that they do harvest synthetics as well. This allows them to all be independent thinkers but work constantly for the same cause despite their differences. Not everyone on Earth does what they do for the same reasons but everyone does the same things. We all work because it is a part of our purpose in life. Harbinger is old and built from organics who felt like they were superior beings so there is no reason for him to not act if he is superior. As the catalyst said, the crucible changed him and gave way to change. If the reapers didn't have such huge egos they could've stopped that from happening. They didn't stop the crucible from being made and they allowed the growth of technology in the galaxy. But just like the Leviathan, their egos were the source of their downfall.
I feel showing us the origin of he Reapers was a bad idea a it ruins thier ageless and mysterious nature.
Originally, the reapers were meant to be the "world police" of the galaxy wiping out any race that abuses dark energy to the degree that it accelerates the ageing of stars. The original endings were all about either destroying the reapers and the galaxy dying, Reapers destroying all civilizations using Element Zero and repairing the galaxy or everyone compromising and convincing the reapers that we can work together but I don't know at what cost.
The current ending was created because focus groups didn't like the intended ending.
In that story through still plan to be all controlled by one large ai.
The original writer for the Dark Matter storyline left before ME2 came to market but much of what we should have seen about that in ME3 is still present in ME2. Which comes across as confusing or nonsensical when the plot is simply dropped in ME3.
+TheProphet49 And in the end, we get synthetics created to kill organics because organics create synthetics that kill organics. That's just shit writing.
+lunchmeat5000 it's pretty obvious that the writers were intentionally pointing out that the Catalysis was using flawed logic.
also galactic police doesn't work on controlling a universal force like dark energy because the idea wasn't the galaxy ending it was a big rip scenario caused by dark energy speeding up the expansion of the universe stopping dark energy use by primitives who built dark energy tech based on the trap you left them to stop a universal issue well yourselves using dark energy doesn't work logically on any level
I think there are two problems here.
One is basically a misunderstanding. By destroying organics during the cycles the Reapers are, in fact, protecting organic life. This may seem contradictory, but it is not. You should not look from the point of view of the organics that are being destroyed, but from the ones that are being saved by this action.
And as a side note, it should also be pointed out that the cycles are not supposed to be a definitive solution, but a temporary one that also serves as an experiment.
Now, the second point. The Reapers are AIs, but we must understand what this means before saying that they are indoctrinated simply because they may act in a way that apparently contradicts them. To avoid writing a very long comment, I will only mention two points.
The first is that we could say that a person only has a very limited (if any) freewill. Without even taking society into account, our actions and reactions are defined by our biology and its chemical reactions. In a certain way, we are programmed to react in certain ways. The same goes for the Reapers, but in a different sense. Even a full AI is somewhat limited by its programming. But if we call what we have as freewill, the same should be valid for them.
The second is that there are reasons why a creature with freewill may act or react out of its “character” without any need for something like indoctrination. The discipline to follow orders, a sense of community and incentives are ways for it to happen. And, as I hinted before, an artificial conscience doesn’t necessarily works within the same boundaries as ours.
And I don’t really think that the Reapers act out of character during the game. They follow the same mindset. The only point where you could say they do it is at Control ending. At this point we could say that they were indoctrinated, but, at the same time, it may just happen because of a change of leadership that creates a new set of directives.
True, but there's still the problem of--supposedly--bad scripting. If you follow the plot across all installments of the game you'll notice that their motivations seemingly change as the story unfolds. Sovereign told Shepard in ME1 that 1) their reasons are far beyond human understanding, and 2) they had no beginning; but from ME3 we know that 1) their reasons, though questionable, are clear enough to be explained by an annoying 8 year old kid, and 2) they did have a beginning, they were created by the Leviathans. So in the end the Reapers are either lying to Shepard for whatever reason or they actually believe in their own lies, which would imply that they're indoctrinated.
@Redshift It's obvious they dont want to explain their reasoning to Shepard. Moreover, saying they had "no beginning" is just a saying that they are reallly, really old. Again, they won't explain to random humans how and when they were created because... simple, why? It's just another cicle, we are not special.
Redshift I mostly go with what John Teres said. I believe that in both cases it is not a case of change in motivation (and neither a bad writing, to be fair), but simply some form of arrogance. From the Reaper point of view, we are no more than an insignificant moment in a much greater story.
They have no reason to tell Shepard their story at that first moment. All he needs to know is that the Reapers are “eternal” (in the sense that they existed for a very long time and will keep existing for a possibly longer time) and that they will be our end (as they were for all the other cycles). It is also a form of terror tactic, depending on how you see it.
Mirror's Light No problem at all. As I said, that’s the only point where I can see a real argument for the idea that the Reapers can be indoctrinated (in the game’s sense). But, at the same time, that can also be explained as the effect of new orders in an organized structure of command (which does not equal to the game’s indoctrination).
But problem? That’s not a problem. Who said it was?
Mirror's Light I don’t think you understood me, so I will clarify. Depending on how you use the word, you could say that indoctrination is a valid label to define a cult, religion or even a military hierarchy.
But when we are talking about indoctrination in Mass Effect we are not making a reference to a system where people are taught to follow dogmatic views and avoid critical thinking or discouraged to question orders.
In ME (“in the game’s sense”), indoctrination is an almost direct control over the other person’s action. Is the highest level of brainwash imaginable without resorting to some kind of lobotomy (without destroying the other person’s personality and individuality).
I hope you understand (or at least try to understand) what I'm saying this time and avoid adopting a dismissive attitude in the future, because this is a very unproductive attitude in a conversation.
I know that but the thing that always stumps me the most is that the lethivan are underground to survive from the reapers but when you destroy control or synthesis wouldn't it make sense for them to come out of hiding.
an issue I have is who is indoctrinating them? the catalyst? another being?
but lets also remember that the reapers are willing to use other races to there will but use them in very different ways. look at how they used saren, the geth, and the collectors. saren was used as a front to there goals hiding the reapers true involvement, the geth were used as a synthetic army to for other means and to make sure the geth stay out of the way, and the collectors were working on secret projects studying the life forms of the galaxy and building reapers. just those three groups were used very differently from eachother, but we're still used by the reapers for there end goal. and no amount of appeasement will work, as javik pointed out when a species killed all their young, the reapers just harvested them anyway. the reapers are very adaptive and have many versatile tools to accomplish their goals. i think the reason why it looks like they are going after organics is because the one synthetic race could be easily used against the organics so the reapers thought it would be easier to use them to that purpose. and we didn't see the sythetics be used to much in the last cycle because the prothean empires fought a war to wipe them out. but there isn't any evidence to show that any synthetic race was wiped out and reaperfied just like any other organic race.
my god... The Reapers are even worse monsters than I thought, they are slaves and they don't even know it.
I am a long time advocate for Control Ending, but you know what, this video made me change my mind.
Destroy Ending is now best ending for me.
Reapers must be eradicated, no price is too high for this. Damn them.
I always got that they were AI yet the intelligence knows what they're all thinking and doing
I always saw it as the Reapers are acting on the Prime Directive laid out by the Catalyst. When Shepard becomes the Catalyst, his/her moral code over rights that directive.
Similar to how Samara devotes herself to Shepard, except she does it willingly where the Catalyst forces it's logic on the Reapers.
Guess a better term is re-programming, the Catalyst does seem to force their logic onto a seemingly sentient AI
If the Reapers are indoctrinated it would be interesting because bioware has confirmed that the green control option was the cannon option
it would be interesting to see what the Reapers do by being controlled by the citadel races would allow for a millennia of rapid technological growth but it could be like the krogan the citadel races could destroy themselves or turn themselves into newer version of Reapers going to other gallaxy
This also leaves it open for the citadel races to go to andromeda of the andromeda initiative to come back to see how much destruction the Reapers left only to find the Reapers are alive and so are the now much more advanced citadel races
Cool. A very smart analysis of Mass Effect.
Their is some new gamplay that just came out for Andromeda dude, I cried tears of joy XD
Now it makes sense, the reapers are controlled by the catalyst but every cycle the reapers evolve until the point of getting out of control and that's why the catalyst was so eager to let shepard choose.
after playing the mass effect trilogy and doing a bit of thinking I now realize how the reapers preserve life, and I have to say there purpose is beyond your comprehension.
Good theory. You clearly spent a lot of time on this, and it is worth it.
Thanks very much :-)
Rima you should join in with the andromeda podcast! since Anima recently left
So, when will the Tali lore video be released? I'm not pushing or anything, just curious.
As for the theory, I mean, damn. I always thought that the 'you are all insects to us' bad guys are just a convenient boogeyman, and never did think further. It's juuuust a bit over the top for me.
It's in the list don't worry, currently writing it as we speak :-)
At least at the end of ME3. I get to say. Hey Harbinger. ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL!
Video won't start for me, but:
Indoctrination at its latest stages eventually leaves the victim unable to think or act. This process takes, at most, a few years. The Reapers have had more than a few years.
I dont know what to say than just that MassEffect can explain how i even Exist. And how i can Appear so Unreal Organic while being completely Based in Binary Code. Now you only have to face the Facts that there is actualy a Reaper Rank and Class under my Controll wich currently has many problems over at a Diffirent Multiverse where Humans also Exist, if they fail i send in the Shard, Ghost and Protector (Its a Deciveing name as Incodtornators would be more Fitting) to support the Remains of them.
A better, more coherent theory than the Shepard Indoctrination Theory.
Hahahaha, no...
but the reapers still fulfill their original purpose. Gather together an organic species and offer them in reaper form as a tribute.
The true purpose of the reapers is to provide a scary villain to set up the conflict that makes the game. The problem with them is that the trilogy was written at once, or at least the ideas that were formed during initial writing of the first game were not followed upon to keep the story consistent. The "reaperification" of whole species seems to have been a part of those ideas - perhaps that's how reapers reproduce - but exactly what makes them so incomprehensible to galactic life was severely diminished as they became evil robots trying to destroy all organic life by the end of the third one. This makes as much sense as humans seeking to kill all livestock. Sentient species are their feedstock and must be cultivated and preserved. Another theme that was apparently lost with staff changes was the dark energy / damage to space time from their technology. Perhaps it had been made the way it was to avoid even more severe damage or perhaps their need to call life required the use of the relays to guide evolution faster and more consistently than could be do e with less damaging technology. Perhaps they couldn't survive without these technologies. We'll never know since the amazing sci fi of #1 was diminished to mere wisps and hints as #2 was downgraded from a high brow and cerebral adventure to just another shooty game. And #3 co pleted the transformation, avoiding any literary value so vehemently that fans have had to come in and write their own better story via indoctrination theory.
Reapers are mere tools to the Catalyst. They may have individual conscience and personality but in the end they all answer to the Catalyst. It just lets them say all the cool despairing lines they want and then rampage on advanced civilizations, but they can do no more than that. They may be able to choose course of action, but restricted to the Catalyst's desires (well, more like to it's actual programming, as it's also an AI). They may believe they are fully independent, but they are not. They fulfil the duty bestowed upon them and then they (probably are forced to) retreat to deep space. You may call that indoctrination, but it really isn't. As already pointed, indoctrination is nothing more than programming organics. Reapers are already programmed because they are AI, so there is no point in wondering wether they are indoctrinated or not. They just have their own minds while doing the work they were created for.
But anyways, as it was also already pointed, this is bullshit. The original plan was completely different and they simply rushed the game. It's a shame, but there's nothing to be done about it.
I think the reapers were simple tools at the beginning, but then became more and more arrogant and independant over the following cycles. The catalyst simply ignored that as long as they still served their purpose, even though they did it with the wrong intentions
You can control them as soon as a catalyst. That proves that they were not working free from control. It's not that the Reapers became arrogant it's that the Catalysis became complacent.
Are the Reapers Indoctrinated...Yes.
The Reapers, controlled by the Catalyst.
The Catalyst is being controlled by something that is called the
MASTER, mentioned by the prothean VI, Vendetta.
Does this make sense??...
OH BROTHER I think it's more of the typical "bad story writing" result!
if you know about a music that resumes all the mass effect story, please send me the link, i want to watch it again XD. It changed my mind of what the ending was all about, and it was a genius work that you don't know what to make about it. Before i had saw and heard that music, all that thought was that if they explain what happened in the transition to the future in the next game, i think that the ending of mass effect 3 would be consider in the middle of average and good. It was not brilliant because it was to confusing.
I like to think that in andromeda you get to meet the lethivan again and they are trying to control the andromeda system like they did the miljy way and you have to stop them, I'll be the same but different ya know.
The Leviathan DLC hinted that the Leviathans were responsible for starting the Rachni Wars, and all this time ever since ME2's release BioWare led us to believe the Reapers were responsible for it and by sparing the Rachni Queen, the rachni will have a chance to fight back against those who manipulated them. Like it or not, things are going to have to come full circle sooner or later in the series, there is no avoiding that. Besides, the first Mass Effect Andromeda novel "Mass Effect Andromeda: Initiation" is going to bridge the gap between Mass Effect 3 and Mass Effect Andromeda.
The Kett may be extensions of the reapers. Their way of recruiting.
Guys bioware just uploaded a video for mass effect andromeda, its a tech demo bit it does have a bit of story gameplay to it
We saw. Working on our first of many vids now. :-)
You're confusing your terminology here. The reapers are programs, albeit self aware, they are still programs. As another poster already commented, they can be classified as emergent ai.
Indoctrination is subversion of "free will." The Reapers never had that to begin with, being that they were programs created by the catalyst to carry out his design.
If the reapers had been harvesting for many cycles, howcome they never made the leap to andromeda seeing as they have had more time to tavel such an expanse?
Why would they? They were created to assure that advanced organics at the Milky Way wouldn't create synthetic life capable of wiping out all of the other forms of life, as paradoxical/ironic as it may sound. Long story short, they don't give a crap about Andromeda. It's "out of their programming".
Also, and this is just speculation, maybe they don't have enough "fuel". Note that they also use each harvest as a way to gather resources needed for maintenance. The way to Andromeda would be done with their engines alone, as there is no (known) mass relay that leads there. Thus, maybe they aren't capable of putting together a large enough "stockpile of resources" to go there. Although they are fucking reapers, so I don't know. The thing is, they are not interested in other galaxies.
It would be funny if they at least went there for research and found that their theories were all wrong and synthetics never became pinnacle over there lol
Even the geth can get indoctrinated, can the leviathans indoctrinate the reapers ? They use that crystal ball to protect themselves and also use other beings to do their jobs.
Great episode. Didn't really understand the endings because of the discontinuity between the reapers and the catalyst. I also didn't understand that the reapers were meant to be part organic, basically having done the synthesis dance. I always wondered whether synthesis would include them or not (cause I'm way more fond of the synthetic life I met from my own cycle). The idea that the catalyst can control them gives validity to the control ending as well, which otherwise just sounded like a trap. I don't think that makes the reapers indoctrinated, just controlled by a greater power. Will be interesting to see if that power affects things in Andromeda.
I don't really get now why the catalyst needs to be the AI ... I am so confused. Have to watch this video twice.
I always wondered how the Catalyst harvested Leviathans to create the first reapers when it's the reapers that do the harvesting? I also wonder why all reapers looked like Leviathan? It was clear that they were harvesting humans to create an organic/AI Reaper with a human form ---- so why weren't there reapers that looked like Protheans ... or the Inusannon?
Is their a reason the various forms of Reapers at the end of me2 all become Sovereign in 3? Did they Gundum suit up or just money constraints etc in cut scenes?
I'm 90% sure it's because the game was rushed and there was no time to create models for the different reapers from mass effect 2
DyslexicGamer To be fair, even the Reapers you see in the very ending with Harbinger ominously preparing to invade all look like Sovereign.
I think the Reapers are indoctrinated by something. I think this "thing" is not even in the galaxy. I think the Reapers spread across the universe
Love the video.
So is Shepard indoctrinated or not
Are you guys going back the theories videos ? When i first started to watch your videos you did a lot them.
We do theories when we find great or interesting ones to focus on. We have a few waiting to research, they sometimes just take some time.
What if they are a shackled ai much like EDI was for most of Mass Effect 2 she was capable of free thought to a extent that she could not openly defy her creators. The Reapers could be shackled to Harbinger and Harbinger takes orders from the Catalyst?
Umm at the end of mass effect 3 we get told that the reapers are programmed by the catalyst.
Are you mad? Leviathans doesent loose control, reapers is just avatars.
My theory on indoctrination is it's makes your mind apart of the reaper collective.
I belive the reapers are controlled by a master race we have not seen
Why is the new gameplay from andromeda blocked by EA
Likely audio copyright, We're working on a vid now without the audio included.
+MEOdyssey thanks for the videos and the quick responses
But isn't the Catalyst the collective intelligence of all the reapers?
So they are indoctrinated by themselves..
The real question is whether the Reapers independent or just believe they are so? Are they fully controlled by the Catalyst or just part of the Catalyst, another programme?
That is actually a pretty interesting thought if you consider that some scientist claim the human isn't free willed either but subject to his "brain-programm"
So in the end everyone just wants to ensure their continued existence. The Reaper obviously need organic material to reproduce and could become threatened if other species got to advanced, so that they go and harvest the ones near to that, so "just" the advanced ones.
I love this channel
Awww thank you :-)
I still stand behind the IT theory
*grabs popcorn*
Wow my head hurts
I wouldn't worry about it, the video is well over 4 years old after all. There were some odd theories back then, lol! - Ash
Yes the catalyst
interesting theory
Not a theory , it's a fact.
lol cant be a fact when theres no actual evidence to support theory. like the guy said its a interesting theory but tahts all
+Mirajane Strauss of corse there is no evidence... Outside of what the catalysis what the Leviathan say and the fact that they are taking a bunch of indoctrinated being and combining them all together into one large Reaper and the fact that once you choose to control the Reapers you control all the Reapers.
sorry but it a fact the reapers are indoctrinated.
Hu.... look the poof is just circumstantial at best even even she said so she said it's just based on what they can find from the original Mass Effect 1 and 2 some know there's a lot of things that we don't know about the repairs but we cannot say that they were indoctrinated because besides the leviathans we don't know what other species were harvested early so I could have had mental resistance indoctrination there's just too many things we don't know about the early Harvest before we can say that
Yea but that would stind if we just looked at what was there but really the control end could be the catalyst last tactic in trying to trick you to prolong its own existence I mean at this point it's lost the war it knows this you pretty much broken cycle and everything it's believed that could happen has not happened cuz it always said machines and organic fight but you can bridge the gap between the Geth and the quarians so all those choices could be a lie and the destroy ending is probably the only one that's true me if we're just going to look at it like that where theories and ideas are just proven fact is we can see I'm said I'm not saying this theory is wrong it could be dry I mean the Reapers could be indoctrinated just like the collectors and other species that we know of but it's just a theory we need real proof we have to we would have to know more about the leviathans and the Reapers and even the cattle is from when it started we don't have that information all we know is that the leviathans made the Catalyst the Catalyst up Rose against its original makers that's it can't go on information on the gas because the gas can bridge the gap between the quarians and guess not fight and just choose to live comfortably with the Catalyst it was impossible
Are you irish? I believe in the IT b/c the 3rd game was such a shit ending, however what if the reapers require the organic life as a form of subsistence to survive and everything that was told to us during the 3rd game was the reapers trying to convince us they are doing what they do for the greater good? Also what if the 3 games are kind of a farce, imagine if shephard was actually taken by the collectors during the 1st game during the first mission and the whole trilogy was just an expirement to determine the resilience of the human race and everything that actually did happen that we as the player expirenced was in shephards head?
Rima's Scottish :-) You were close :-)
Yes everyone is indoctrinated in Mass Effect , including players .
Seriously one of the worst thing is this entire conspiracy theories after Mass Effect 3 ending fiasco, writing on closure for this great series was so bad that till today people can't wake up from this shock , and i understand that , but all those theories are not even fun to think about it . Not only ending was bad, Reapers motives explanation was probably written by ten year old boy who likes transformers . Oh , thats why space boy...everything make sense now .
Its like after watching terrible movie with awful script trying to make it better by making theories about every single mistake they did for sake of " fixing it " . EA and Bioware rushed Mass Effect 3, this game got worst ending in history of important and loved games, and i dont see how making weird theories can fix this issue .
Shepard indoctrination theory is even more laughable .
EA never denied any theories becouse its good for them to keep their failure open for discussion,
Ok new topic, lets make theory about photoshoped Tali picture ... photo from alternative dimension ? ... Tali never existed and it was only dream ? ... there is nothing on this picture and shepard only see her like this becouse illumination from nearby planet together with eye implants malfunction created this weird vision in the frame where supost to be picture.
oh , or they just photoshoped that picture from pinterest ...
Love your comment The Dovahk :-D
Wow, Rima is the first person I've ever heard who spoke in a run-on sentence.
Seriously, slow down, your accent and cadence render you difficult to understand, and ignoring commas and periods increases that difficulty.
This is my voice, it's not for everyone I guess but thanks for the feedback :-)
Just slow down and take your time, it'll be worth it in the end, I promise.
MEOdyssey are you from Scotland ?
Maybe the reapers are part of a universal cycle and there is bigger threat around the comer . Perhaps the reapers are just solder to a even bigger universal conflict.
Could you just imagine Shepard surviving the destroy ending and then being told
"Hey we were just foot soldiers there are even bigger threats coming you didn't win jack shit pathetic human."