I am a bloody plasterer but I can't stop watching your videos I love watching a tradesman who know absolutely everything about his trade it's brilliant
Man I wish I had half the knowledge that you do about both plumbing and electrics! It's like being back in school listening to a teacher, great videos keep it up👍👍
Nice job again, I found it much easier to swap my boiler for a Viessmann and ran two extra pipes for priority HW, far less wiring. Zone valves also restrict flow so got rid of them all
As heat loss calculations are so important! Plse could you explain how you would go about assessing a buildings heat loss👍 Your channel is in the top three on UA-cam 🎉
I have just come across your page, I'm an electrician. Whilst looking for X-plan info I found this video and must say well done on the information and presentation. My only advice would be to fit an end cap to your trunking and always segregate ELV and LV circuit for compliance; I appreciate it may have been difficult on this site. Subscribed.
Great video as ever, only thing I’d contribute is that personally I’d segregate ELV (24v) and LB (220v) cabling. This is specified in 18th edition of wiring regs.
Plumbing and heating is a great job. You have to learn new things almost everyday and it never ends. People truly do not appreciate the amount of skill and knowledge that goes into plumbing. I consider myself an advanced beginner. I know guys that have 10x my skill and knowledge and even they are still learning. It truly never ends
For those with existing S Plan systems, there is another option offered by Intergas which offers a form of Domestic Hot Water Priority without having to change any valves. The option is called "S Plan with Outside Weather Compensation". There is a wiring diagram available from Intergas, and you don't need a 'plumbing' diagram because it works with standard S Plan plumbing. The wiring diagram shows a 240V relay is used to disconnect the outdoor weather sensor from the boiler when there is DHW demand - the demand signal operates the relay to disconnect the sensor, and the sensor is reconnected when the demand is satisfied. The option requires a mains cable from the wiring centre where the zone valve for the hot water cylinder is wired to a location where the weather sensor is connected to the boiler. When there is DHW demand, the outdoor weather sensor is disconnected and the boiler flow temperature is what ever is set on the boiler front panel, and when there is no demand, the outdoor weather sensor is connected and the flow temperature will be reduced to that set by the weather compensation curve. Timing for heating and hotwater are controlled by the existing S Plan Two Channel programmer. This is the option I use on my Intergas HRE OV.
You don’t need to disconnect the WC by a relay. The boiler recognises 2 different flow temps - WC and DHW. All you need is a relay that will be controlled by the boiler when there is DHW demand and will interrupt power supply to all heating zone valves. The set up you propose if inferior to the correct method shown in this video, as it will not allow you to range rate the boiler for DHW and the boiler will still think it is doing CH - one with WC and one without. Intergas never had correct wiring or diagrams in their manuals, it was all designed and worked out by people like Rich Burrows or Kimbo. I would suggest avoiding the option you suggest. There are better ways of doing it.
@@UrbanPlumbers I agree that it's not as efficient as the method shown in your video. Your method is definitely better, but it involves more changes to the system, and the S Plan with Weather Compensation is an improvement on not having the weather compensation.
Ok. I get it now. I'd missed that it's wired through the overheat stat and not the normal stat. I'm ready to install it! Looking forward to the updated video when the cylinder NTC is in and wired.
I enjoy watching your videos and also scared with the bombardement of the informations. Some of your videos I've watched 3-4 times to understand better.
@@UrbanPlumbers Your explanations are perfect. It’s just I am new in this area. I don’t mind watching again and again. Could you do a video of your testing tools when you have time. Such as multimeter, tightness test, flue test etc… thanks for all the amazing videos 🙏
This is probably the 20th time watching this and trying to understand what I need to do for my setup. So, I purchase the NormallyOpen valve as you suggested, has 3 wires and need to connect it to HW zone valve to brown wire? Or do I need to trace two new cables from Water tank down to my boiler? They are not close to each other unfortunately. Whereas the controller, it has only a RELAY: COM NC NO, which cables go to that connector? Aiming for Opentherm and PDHW. Please advise
I have a similar setup with my heat pump. A difference is, that I have a valve that will change over from heating to hot water, so only one valve instead of the 2 here.
@@mgbroadsterJ yes and no. It is a really old heat pump that cannot modulate. So that system will run until the return and flow have the needed temperature. The controller will calculate the temperature depending on the outdoor temperature. It will look at the return temperature and calculate that. It is combined with underfloor heating, so a little bit of excess heat can be stored in the floor. On change between hot water or heating it will change the temperature.
Wow what a nice job how much does something like that cost? We have a vented cylinder currently so are considering an upgrade. Anyone near Middlesbrough do as good of a job as this guy?
What is the problem with plastic pipes? I had a full system and combi fitted the plumber gave the choice of all copper, all plastic or copper where it could be seen and plastic under the floors. All the same price Chose copper/plastic. Been there for 20+ years. The plumber warned that mice could be a problem with plastic, but the copper/plastic was good as the joists could be drilled and not notched. Totally silent system. No creaks like copper often has.
Preference mainly. The pipe itself is highly unlikely to cause any issues, but the fittings definitely have a higher failure rate than soldered copper.
I agree with you less noise but I think customer got a fright when looking at all the fittings I use plastic all the time but it is all continues and I drill holes instead of notching.
Fittings will not last as long. They definitely fail more often. Also, not what client was paying for. Also push fit fittings need to be accessible so a no no under tiles or flooring that can’t be easily lifted.
Plastic fittings and brass compression fittings in inaccessible areas are a pain. Tend to find most failures on plastic is at the fittings due to o-rings being sliced on install, pipe not being cut square so it actually degrades, people forgetting to put inserts in etc. Cost wise they're about the same now so it just comes down to longevity and installation time as it's far easier to fit plastic in most cases than copper unless you can follow the valleys and original notches which isn't always practical.
@@UrbanPlumbers Ah.. Right. My floors are easily accessible, just decking. The problem was all the pipes had to be run through the ceiling as the ground floor is concrete. The guy who did the installation was an old heating engineer who said plumbing was just common sense. As I remember he didn't use a lot of plastic connectors, but quite a few 'bloody ells'. Lol! The pipe work is almost all hidden and where it can be seen is minimal, behind a door and down a corner painted in are the only two places copper pipework can be seen, obviously under the radiators too. A good job it seems. No leaks so far. Baxi 105e Instant now replaced with an Intergas ECO RF 36 I did my homework on boilers before buying! My next door neighbours is a council job, both done to replace warm air heating from the 70's Hers looks like W. Heath Robinson did it with pipes everywhere.
Great video and well explained wiring solution. Would this X plan solution work with the Intergas HRE OV version of the boiler? I do not want to change the cyclinder as it is relatively new.
Because that way, you can split the boiler flow temperature and kW rating into 2 independent outputs. One for hot water at full rate and one for central heating at much reduced rate and lower flow temperature for greater efficiency. This set up can be over 10% more efficient as compared to standard S or Y plan set-ups. Check my next video coming in 2-3 days with 200L high gain cylinder and 18 minutes full recovery time using hot water priority with a Viessmann boiler.
What a great video! I have a Intergas HRE wired in S plan. My cylinder doesn't have a pocket for NTC so thought I was snookered, but I like the idea of using the existing cylinder stat and overheat stat to 'convince the boiler that the cylinder isn't up to temperature yet' A couple of questions if you don't mind. If you wire the nest up using opentherm, in x plan, and there is formally demand for hot water from the nest time schedule, and demand for heating due to the nest thermostat (I know that hot water priority will mean the wet side will only be serving dhw), will the nest still try and modulate down the flame as it may think that the flow temps are too high for the heating (even though not in use at that time) Second question, can you have x plan, opentherm and have frost / pipe stat protection?
@@UrbanPlumbers super, I still need to work out the finer detail with my installer. I’m still a bit concerned that if there’s a conflict with the nest trying to demand both, it may modulate down . I’m fitting a AIC tank in tank cylinder which has a high transfer equivalency (41kw) due to the capacity, but the 40sb only fires 75% in DHW mode (not sure why - the other rated boilers can fire 100%). I just hope o don’t run into any matching issues like a chap has suggest previously about delta T
Why not fit a combi. Use the DHW side with a brass pump, to heat a cheaper direct cylinder. Cylinder stat switches brass pump, which activates combi flow switch. Only needs 15mm pipe between combi and cylinder. *Much* simpler and quicker. No complex, potentially troublesome. zone valves needed and complex wiring.
So how is this piped? Does it go Cylinder hot outlet>Tee(one goes off to demand eg shower>boiler cold inlet> boiler dhw outlet> brass pump> cylinder cold inlet? This seems really weird.
Also, how would it work properly, since when you're using water, the cylinder stat will not be satisfied and trigger the pump meaning you'll cycle hot water into the boiler, reducing potential flow rates as well as wasting hot water since it'll just mix with cold going into the cylinder inlet.
@@Saaj2 Flow and return from combi to cylinder using the fresh water section of combi. *1)* Hot outlet of combi to top of cylinder. Using a Surrey flange into cylinder draw-off, or into a cylinder port. *2)* From bottom of cylinder using a cylinder port or tee into cylinder cold feed at the cylinder, or again use a Surrey flange. Into combi cold feed. Have brass pump on return pipe from cylinder. *3)* cylinder stat only switches brass pump.
I like how copper pipes look, how more durable they are compared to plastic pipes. But where I had a combi installed plumbers use solely plastic piping as if that were the only way to go. Can anyone inform us why plastic is bad?
Plastic should not be used within 1 meter of the boiler or so. Nothing wrong with it, just will not last as long as copper and I personally would not trust push fit fittings. Have seen some properties flooded by a faulty push fit already.
@@UrbanPlumbers Thank you for the response. As far as I could see, they use a tool to heat connecting pipes and mold them together. Is it the same as using push fittings? I was not able to find anyone in trade to use copper pipes in that location.
yes, there is a bypass. The gate valve is not on the flow. It is linking flow and return to the cylinder. In most cases is stays closed. It is there in case you get what is called a coil resonance, which can happen with this cylinder.
Hi looking to install a new unvented cylinder tank system boiler and considering solar panels to heat hot water haven’t done domestic work for a few years. I like Intergas boilers but as this is my own home looking for most energy efficient over the years. What would you recommend?
No, strangely it is the other way round to a normally closed valve. See here: www.bes.co.uk/honeywell-home-v4043b-motorised-zone-valve-2-port-22mm-14500/?ref=gs&gclid=Cj0KCQjw8IaGBhCHARIsAGIRRYoZDeEnCiDK_p1pUA3pMts0Hl2eYY7gA17m05mpNbVwYcq7uThg2soaAv-rEALw_wcB
I do not quite remember now, but I think it was just a nut that needed tightening that was ok when not pressurized but once everything was on mains it started leaking
The boiler's output should be matched to the max kW capacity of the cylinder's coil. If the boiler is set too high you get boiler cycling. What was the kW of the coil?
@@UrbanPlumbers If a coil is rated at say 12kW by the makers, then obviously do not set the boiler's kW to say 18kW. If the delta T narrow as the cylinder is being heated up, does the boiler modulate down to avoid cycling? If so, and the coil is too large the delta T will be too large, then the boiler modulates down the flow temp to get the delta T within the desired range for the boiler.
@@UrbanPlumbers I suspect only one coil should be connected (coil too big) as the boiler may modulate down on initial reheat, not dumping all its heat into the cylinder, until the return pipe warms up, keeping the F&R inside the delta T. But the 25mins reheat sounds about right for an 18kW boiler. So, the there may be no penalty in reheat time, and the boiler operating at a lower more efficient temperature.
Great video, extremely informative! Just a quick question, is an external programmer needed for the hot water? Or can you control hot water times with the Honeywell programmer you installed on this job? I understand this would be difficult unless using boiler brand controls with the correct boiler. 👍🏼
yes of course. There are special 117L high gain vented cyliners. You can get them from Intergas Shop. You can still set up PDHW with a regural vented cylinder, but the coil is usually pretty small in those, so you would have to range the boiler to the coil.
@@UrbanPlumbers Also, I have an Intergas 18OV, heat only. How would the pump be wired? And since there is no overheat stat on the open vent cylinder how would the wiring be altered for that? Thanks again!
Excellent video. I really enjoyed it. Does the Intergas boiler have an expansion vessel built in, or is it in the stand-off kit? Boiler is much neater without the stand-off bracket like you’ve installed it.
Intergas HRE don’t have a build in vessel. You can get a jig with a vessel though. I much prefer robi kits to integrated vessels, as you can get a bigger vessel and install it remotely. Easier to service or replace external vessel too.
@@UrbanPlumbers Thanks for replying. I agree with you, the robi kits are a better solution. Our local suppliers did promote Intergas boilers a while back and I fitted a few of the Rapids, but they did have some burner ignition issues and intergas didn't really have enough service engineers to respond quickly so the supplier stopped promoting them. But I do like them.
Ever come across a HRE where doesn’t seem to be responding to a demand for hot water under x plan Parameter 1 set to 1 4 to 75 Parameter A To option 6 As per the supplement guide Even with no connections across x4 - 9&10 doesn’t respond to hot water demand
@@UrbanPlumbers yes! About 10 minutes afterwards I realised Since you replied so quickly - any thoughts on how to have water set hotter than 65? Set point on front panel seems to be limited to 65, but I’ve added mixing valve so wanted to store water hotter . Seem to cycling a bit on hot water so might have a bit of tuning to sort out. Cylinder is rated at 31kw
@@bobwylie158 set the DHW kW lower if it's cycling. It should not cycle on DHW water. I have never seen one cycle on DHW. You can set higher DHW in the installer parameters.
@@UrbanPlumbers I can see the flow temp for heating cylinder (parameter n) but not a way to have cylinder storage temp apart from the front panel (seems to be limited to 65) I’m trying to down modulate the hre 40 SB to 60% on pdhw and see how that goes but not confident from last nights test
@@UrbanPlumbers I can see the flow temp for heating cylinder (parameter n) but not a way to have cylinder storage temp apart from the front panel (seems to be limited to 65) I’m trying to down modulate the hre 40 SB to 60% on pdhw and see how that goes but not confident from last nights test
Neat and tidy job, like how you label stuff to make it easy for the next plumber. I think you are the first plumber to install X-plan on youtube. I know Intergas prefers X-plan to W-plan but they don't explain why. Is it because 2 port valves are more reliable than 3 port valves?
It is because in heating mode valves are not energised. If you use 3 port instead it is energised in heating. Since heating is on more than DHW 3 port will fail quicker than NO and NC 2 port.
Nice one thanks for sharing, looking forward to getting intergass boilier with xplan myself. Just to share, I believe you can also use a diverter valve (or mid position rewired to diverter) inverted (so A side is hot water) so the heating side is in a relaxed state to increase the life of those valves too. 🤓
they are years behind Vaillant and Viessmann, poor modulation, and poor build quality, notoriously difficult to work on. Horrible boilers. The customer service is good - that's about it.
@ 8:25 Someone really love bosch group boilers :))))) .... I have some feallings for them too :))) They are not that bad but they are not good either...
@@UrbanPlumbers 4000 It is somewhat a honest boiler; 8000 It is more reliable and a little bit easier to clean but i still hate that I have to use strong chemichals to cleant the internal deposits …. + I cant like any Bosch boilers because they do not have a low water pressure sensor or equivalent… If I really insist I can install one that I can connect to the electronic board on the ports for external security devices…. I have a very long love and hate relatioship with Bosch group products …
Can somebody confirm this please?! With PDHW , does it mean hot water will always kick in automatically as soon as the temperature drops in the cylinder tank?? Or will it be controlled by human to say "switch HW on now or on schedule" I have 16yrs old cylinder tank and don't think it be a fast recovery technology and surely wouldn't want HW to kick in a lot of times through the day because 1)will be expensive and 2) heating be off during HW cycle 3) if PDHW is worth on a such old cylinder tank? If this can be clarified please!
It can be done both ways - always on or timed. On vaillant you can set the DT between store temp and when the DHW kicks in as well, marine gas that if you set temp to 60 in the cylinder then you can adjust how many degrees below 60 the store needs to drop before the boiler kicks in to recharge the cylinder.
@@UrbanPlumbers There is a 5 core wire between the boiler and cylinder. You are using the earth conductor in the cable for the switched live, 2 for the NTC, 2 for Live and Neutral. Since the cable is carrying mains voltages, it should have an earth conductor. If you did it by the book, you should have run an extra cable. For example if a nail goes through the live conductor, there is no earth for it to reference through and the nail stays live becoming an electrocution risk. Since most properties you work in should have functioning RCDs, I would just forget about the earth. If you do an install in a property with an old fusebox, you should definitely run the extra conductors.
Isn’t the earth cable to protect the exposed metal at the end it’s connected to? We are not concerned with mechanical damage or should he be using swa cable
@@EdthePlumber An RCD or RCBO, continually monitors the Line (Active) and Return (Neutral) wires to ensure they are _in balance._ That is, inflow = outflow. If they are not in balance something is wrong so it trips cutting off the supply. The Earth is not part of this sensing, so technically the RCD can protect without an earth connection. BTW, it is now recommended that each circuit is fitted with an RCBO (combined mcb and RCD). Electricity always wants to go back to where it was generated. So if there is a fault with the L touching a metal part of an appliance, when you touch the metal, the electricity will want to get back to its source via _you._ So having a wire (the earth wire, or CPC as Sparks call it) from the metal parts, _paralleling_ the Neutral wire (the return to source) ensures the full flow will not go fully through you, as you have a higher resistance than the earth wire. Note the earth and Neutral wires are _joined_ at the main fuse head coming in from the DNO.
@@Saaj2 A nail can be driven into only a Line (live) conductor - the earth is untouched. The nail will be live. Touch it in bare feet on wet floor, then all the current tries to run through _you,_ back to it source (the generator/transformer). If no RCD is fitted then the only protection is the MCB, which may not trip until maybe 40 amps has ran through _you._ By then you may be dead. That is why without RCD protection _bonding_ of metal parts was mandatory. That is joining all the metal parts together - no taking them to earth. That is if you touch a live metal part of an appliance at 240v, then grab a pipe, the pipe will also be at 240v, with current not running right through _you._ If you have full RCD protection, ugly, complex and expensive bonding is unnecessary.
Why do plumber's keep saying 18kw system boiler is not enough for 11 radiators, shower and bath. 24kW is better and will not use more - they said 😟 thought 18kw is more than enough
Intergas great boiler. They deserved to be top brand beating installers choice brand. Sad. I would still not prefer Intergas X plan. I would confused my mates in gas industry. Go with flow. S plan sensible option.
S plan is definitely not a sensible option. Industry has to change and people need to get educated. Domestic gas has been dumbed down for years now and it has to change.
@@UrbanPlumbers Let's see how high Gas price change the Domestic industry. Nest, Tado and Hive are all wired on 240v, calling it smart to fool users. Always struggle to explain boiler sizing and next challenge is to explain low flow temp design. Thanks for all your efforts on UA-cam. You are a top range Gas Engineer. Thanks for bothering to reply.
Because you would have to upgrade gas, will have less efficiency, poorer hot water performance, no chance of connecting solar in the future, no use of 2 showers at the same time, more internal components on combi to go wrong, I could go on and on. Combi boiler is what makes this industry so poor in both design and understanding of how heating and hot systems work. In this case combi installation was the same price as unvented when you take into account cost of gas upgrades and need for 40kW boiler
@@UrbanPlumbers you big mistakes, combi boiler at 32kwh you can use 3 showers and all heaters at the same time. Your knowledge brother is obsolete. You need to study the latest generation. So that your be coming customer can save money. Stop introducing very old and inefficient idea. Thanks
@James don’t have a clue??? I’m professional installer of combi boiler. I covered electric and plumbing. I always recommend to all my customers to change a combi boiler. All my customers are happy with my recommendation. I I’m installed as will baseboard heater. Probably this guy don’t know the latest generation.
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
I am a bloody plasterer but I can't stop watching your videos I love watching a tradesman who know absolutely everything about his trade it's brilliant
Man I wish I had half the knowledge that you do about both plumbing and electrics! It's like being back in school listening to a teacher, great videos keep it up👍👍
Thanks for watching!
Nice job again, I found it much easier to swap my boiler for a Viessmann and ran two extra pipes for priority HW, far less wiring. Zone valves also restrict flow so got rid of them all
As heat loss calculations are so important! Plse could you explain how you would go about assessing a buildings heat loss👍 Your channel is in the top three on UA-cam 🎉
I will make a full video about it soon
I like these intergas boilers.The more I learn about them it will be our next combi boiler.
Remember about robust scale protection for them
He knows his business Good teacher.I remember at Tech School there was one teacher like him in Rotterdam.Very few and far between.
Cheers mate.
I have just come across your page, I'm an electrician. Whilst looking for X-plan info I found this video and must say well done on the information and presentation. My only advice would be to fit an end cap to your trunking and always segregate ELV and LV circuit for compliance; I appreciate it may have been difficult on this site. Subscribed.
trouble is, every single boiler does x plan in a different way. You have to wire them all differently. Nice that electricians are wising up to this!
Great video, I’m an intergas fan and your product knowledge is awesome.
Thank you
Great video as ever, only thing I’d contribute is that personally I’d segregate ELV (24v) and LB (220v) cabling. This is specified in 18th edition of wiring regs.
Sensible thing or do really
The more I watch your videos, the more I like plumbing.
Plumbing and heating is a great job. You have to learn new things almost everyday and it never ends. People truly do not appreciate the amount of skill and knowledge that goes into plumbing. I consider myself an advanced beginner. I know guys that have 10x my skill and knowledge and even they are still learning.
It truly never ends
Superb work love these vids . Great system in the winter once the hot water is up to temperature they will have heating full power
👍👍👍👍👍
Thanks 👍
Wow.. lots of information. But yes I enjoyed it. Thank you.
Thanks 🙏
Very nice job Sir 👍 Them core fix for dot & dab are brilliant
thank you Sir!
Nice to actually see a plumber use a bender
For those with existing S Plan systems, there is another option offered by Intergas which offers a form of Domestic Hot Water Priority without having to change any valves. The option is called "S Plan with Outside Weather Compensation". There is a wiring diagram available from Intergas, and you don't need a 'plumbing' diagram because it works with standard S Plan plumbing. The wiring diagram shows a 240V relay is used to disconnect the outdoor weather sensor from the boiler when there is DHW demand - the demand signal operates the relay to disconnect the sensor, and the sensor is reconnected when the demand is satisfied. The option requires a mains cable from the wiring centre where the zone valve for the hot water cylinder is wired to a location where the weather sensor is connected to the boiler. When there is DHW demand, the outdoor weather sensor is disconnected and the boiler flow temperature is what ever is set on the boiler front panel, and when there is no demand, the outdoor weather sensor is connected and the flow temperature will be reduced to that set by the weather compensation curve. Timing for heating and hotwater are controlled by the existing S Plan Two Channel programmer. This is the option I use on my Intergas HRE OV.
You don’t need to disconnect the WC by a relay. The boiler recognises 2 different flow temps - WC and DHW. All you need is a relay that will be controlled by the boiler when there is DHW demand and will interrupt power supply to all heating zone valves.
The set up you propose if inferior to the correct method shown in this video, as it will not allow you to range rate the boiler for DHW and the boiler will still think it is doing CH - one with WC and one without.
Intergas never had correct wiring or diagrams in their manuals, it was all designed and worked out by people like Rich Burrows or Kimbo.
I would suggest avoiding the option you suggest. There are better ways of doing it.
@@UrbanPlumbers I agree that it's not as efficient as the method shown in your video. Your method is definitely better, but it involves more changes to the system, and the S Plan with Weather Compensation is an improvement on not having the weather compensation.
Ok. I get it now. I'd missed that it's wired through the overheat stat and not the normal stat. I'm ready to install it! Looking forward to the updated video when the cylinder NTC is in and wired.
I enjoy watching your videos and also scared with the bombardement of the informations. Some of your videos I've watched 3-4 times to understand better.
It is simple stuff, really. Maybe I am not explaining it in the best way!
@@UrbanPlumbers Your explanations are perfect. It’s just I am new in this area. I don’t mind watching again and again. Could you do a video of your testing tools when you have time. Such as multimeter, tightness test, flue test etc… thanks for all the amazing videos 🙏
Top quality, really well done 👍
thank you !
Hi great video! What press fit gun are you using please? Many thanks
Geberit aco103
Can you use any unvented cylinder ?
I'm thinking about how you would secure the NcT
Brilliant as always.. very informative... thanks for uploading
Thanks Lee! 🙏
Do you have to change a diagram in the boiler every year ?
Great info. On the wiring tho do u not need a permanent live on the grey wire for the zone valve as u normally would?
This is probably the 20th time watching this and trying to understand what I need to do for my setup.
So, I purchase the NormallyOpen valve as you suggested, has 3 wires and need to connect it to HW zone valve to brown wire?
Or do I need to trace two new cables from Water tank down to my boiler? They are not close to each other unfortunately.
Whereas the controller, it has only a RELAY: COM NC NO, which cables go to that connector?
Aiming for Opentherm and PDHW.
Please advise
Thanks for the like, but would appreciate advise as I am stuck but nobody can help :(
I have a similar setup with my heat pump.
A difference is, that I have a valve that will change over from heating to hot water, so only one valve instead of the 2 here.
Does it up the flow temp ?
@@mgbroadsterJ yes and no. It is a really old heat pump that cannot modulate. So that system will run until the return and flow have the needed temperature. The controller will calculate the temperature depending on the outdoor temperature. It will look at the return temperature and calculate that.
It is combined with underfloor heating, so a little bit of excess heat can be stored in the floor.
On change between hot water or heating it will change the temperature.
Wow what a nice job how much does something like that cost? We have a vented cylinder currently so are considering an upgrade. Anyone near Middlesbrough do as good of a job as this guy?
I hate to talk about money on YT as it gives wrong impression - all jobs are different. If you really want to know - email me.
What is the problem with plastic pipes?
I had a full system and combi fitted the plumber gave the choice of all copper, all plastic or copper where it could be seen and plastic under the floors. All the same price Chose copper/plastic. Been there for 20+ years.
The plumber warned that mice could be a problem with plastic, but the copper/plastic was good as the joists could be drilled and not notched.
Totally silent system. No creaks like copper often has.
Preference mainly. The pipe itself is highly unlikely to cause any issues, but the fittings definitely have a higher failure rate than soldered copper.
I agree with you less noise but I think customer got a fright when looking at all the fittings I use plastic all the time but it is all continues and I drill holes instead of notching.
Fittings will not last as long. They definitely fail more often. Also, not what client was paying for. Also push fit fittings need to be accessible so a no no under tiles or flooring that can’t be easily lifted.
Plastic fittings and brass compression fittings in inaccessible areas are a pain. Tend to find most failures on plastic is at the fittings due to o-rings being sliced on install, pipe not being cut square so it actually degrades, people forgetting to put inserts in etc. Cost wise they're about the same now so it just comes down to longevity and installation time as it's far easier to fit plastic in most cases than copper unless you can follow the valleys and original notches which isn't always practical.
@@UrbanPlumbers Ah.. Right. My floors are easily accessible, just decking.
The problem was all the pipes had to be run through the ceiling as the ground floor is concrete.
The guy who did the installation was an old heating engineer who said plumbing was just common sense.
As I remember he didn't use a lot of plastic connectors, but quite a few 'bloody ells'. Lol!
The pipe work is almost all hidden and where it can be seen is minimal, behind a door and down a corner painted in are the only two places copper pipework can be seen, obviously under the radiators too.
A good job it seems. No leaks so far.
Baxi 105e Instant now replaced with an Intergas ECO RF 36
I did my homework on boilers before buying!
My next door neighbours is a council job, both done to replace warm air heating from the 70's Hers looks like W. Heath Robinson did it with pipes everywhere.
Also I assume if I got a multi zone heating I can fit that as normal after the normally open zone valve.
or you can use 3 port diverter instead
Why does it go in the cylinder and back out ?
Great video and well explained wiring solution. Would this X plan solution work with the Intergas HRE OV version of the boiler? I do not want to change the cyclinder as it is relatively new.
Yes will work the same way
That's a great regeneration time for a big cylinder. Why does the hot water have priority over the heating though?
Because that way, you can split the boiler flow temperature and kW rating into 2 independent outputs. One for hot water at full rate and one for central heating at much reduced rate and lower flow temperature for greater efficiency.
This set up can be over 10% more efficient as compared to standard S or Y plan set-ups.
Check my next video coming in 2-3 days with 200L high gain cylinder and 18 minutes full recovery time using hot water priority with a Viessmann boiler.
@@UrbanPlumbers yeah, ok. Now I get it, very good work.
Marking the crimped after inserting it into the fitting i see. Cheeky
What a great video! I have a Intergas HRE wired in S plan. My cylinder doesn't have a pocket for NTC so thought I was snookered, but I like the idea of using the existing cylinder stat and overheat stat to 'convince the boiler that the cylinder isn't up to temperature yet'
A couple of questions if you don't mind. If you wire the nest up using opentherm, in x plan, and there is formally demand for hot water from the nest time schedule, and demand for heating due to the nest thermostat (I know that hot water priority will mean the wet side will only be serving dhw), will the nest still try and modulate down the flame as it may think that the flow temps are too high for the heating (even though not in use at that time)
Second question, can you have x plan, opentherm and have frost / pipe stat protection?
Yes you can have nest and 2 flow temperatures and open therm. Frost protection is also possible.
You don’t need pocket for ntc, you can slide it behind cylinder insulation or behind cylinder stat.
@@UrbanPlumbers super, I still need to work out the finer detail with my installer. I’m still a bit concerned that if there’s a conflict with the nest trying to demand both, it may modulate down .
I’m fitting a AIC tank in tank cylinder which has a high transfer equivalency (41kw) due to the capacity, but the 40sb only fires 75% in DHW mode (not sure why - the other rated boilers can fire 100%). I just hope o don’t run into any matching issues like a chap has suggest previously about delta T
@@bobwylie158
You are better off with DHW priority. Fast DHW reheat, then the CH modulates to what the WC dictates.
@@johnburns4017 forgive me , x plan is intergas’ variant on priority hot water is it not ?
Why not fit a combi. Use the DHW side with a brass pump, to heat a cheaper direct cylinder. Cylinder stat switches brass pump, which activates combi flow switch. Only needs 15mm pipe between combi and cylinder.
*Much* simpler and quicker. No complex, potentially troublesome. zone valves needed and complex wiring.
So how is this piped? Does it go Cylinder hot outlet>Tee(one goes off to demand eg shower>boiler cold inlet> boiler dhw outlet> brass pump> cylinder cold inlet? This seems really weird.
Also, how would it work properly, since when you're using water, the cylinder stat will not be satisfied and trigger the pump meaning you'll cycle hot water into the boiler, reducing potential flow rates as well as wasting hot water since it'll just mix with cold going into the cylinder inlet.
@@Saaj2
Flow and return from combi to cylinder using the fresh water section of combi.
*1)* Hot outlet of combi to top of cylinder. Using a Surrey flange into cylinder draw-off, or into a cylinder port.
*2)* From bottom of cylinder using a cylinder port or tee into cylinder cold feed at the cylinder, or again use a Surrey flange. Into combi cold feed. Have brass pump on return pipe from cylinder.
*3)* cylinder stat only switches brass pump.
@@Saaj2
When cyl' stat switches on the pump circulation will only be between combi and cylinder. Only needs a cheaper direct cylinder.
Great knowledge, really well explained, thanks 👍🏻
Glad it was helpful!
I like how copper pipes look, how more durable they are compared to plastic pipes. But where I had a combi installed plumbers use solely plastic piping as if that were the only way to go. Can anyone inform us why plastic is bad?
Plastic should not be used within 1 meter of the boiler or so. Nothing wrong with it, just will not last as long as copper and I personally would not trust push fit fittings. Have seen some properties flooded by a faulty push fit already.
@@UrbanPlumbers Thank you for the response. As far as I could see, they use a tool to heat connecting pipes and mold them together. Is it the same as using push fittings? I was not able to find anyone in trade to use copper pipes in that location.
You have removed the video about Opentherm with PDHW on NEST with IDEAL VOGUE. Is there a reason?
can we see it again? Unable to access it
Yes, there was a mistake in those videos that I need to correct
@@UrbanPlumbers thanks, when are we seeing updated video? Any time soon 😳 ?
Or maybe you have a link to an updated wiring diagram pls?
What’s the gate valve on the cylinder flow for? You have a separate auto bypass?
yes, there is a bypass. The gate valve is not on the flow. It is linking flow and return to the cylinder. In most cases is stays closed. It is there in case you get what is called a coil resonance, which can happen with this cylinder.
question: why is the filling loop always seeming to be done in braided tube rather than solid? is there a reason?
Yes, makes it easier to install as well as the fact that it is supposed to be removed after installation and put aside
Hi looking to install a new unvented cylinder tank system boiler and considering solar panels to heat hot water haven’t done domestic work for a few years. I like Intergas boilers but as this is my own home looking for most energy efficient over the years.
What would you recommend?
Intergas Xlusive combi used as a system or a Viessmann 200
What is the link on the cylinder? Is it a dual coil ?
Yes twin coil
@@UrbanPlumbers Why does the pipe go in and back out ? I'm talking about the cylinder .
You seem like a great installer but why do you combustion check with case off?
I do both. Adjust with case off re test with case on. On Intergas you usually have to adjust minimum rate on the gas valve.
Top video brother. Keep it up 👍🏻
Cheers
Isn't the V4043B physically the wrong way around?
No, strangely it is the other way round to a normally closed valve. See here:
www.bes.co.uk/honeywell-home-v4043b-motorised-zone-valve-2-port-22mm-14500/?ref=gs&gclid=Cj0KCQjw8IaGBhCHARIsAGIRRYoZDeEnCiDK_p1pUA3pMts0Hl2eYY7gA17m05mpNbVwYcq7uThg2soaAv-rEALw_wcB
@@UrbanPlumbers definitely confused me for a moment. Thanks for clarifying
what caused the toilet leak? and where did the leak come from?
I do not quite remember now, but I think it was just a nut that needed tightening that was ok when not pressurized but once everything was on mains it started leaking
@@UrbanPlumbers thankyou
Hi did you upload this one again?
Yes, had some spelling errors in the previous one
The boiler's output should be matched to the max kW capacity of the cylinder's coil. If the boiler is set too high you get boiler cycling. What was the kW of the coil?
It’s 18kW boiler with twin coil cylinder linked together. One coil can take around 20kW so I guess it is 18kW going into 40kW coil.
@@UrbanPlumbers
If a coil is rated at say 12kW by the makers, then obviously do not set the boiler's kW to say 18kW. If the delta T narrow as the cylinder is being heated up, does the boiler modulate down to avoid cycling?
If so, and the coil is too large the delta T will be too large, then the boiler modulates down the flow temp to get the delta T within the desired range for the boiler.
How do you calculate the coil output then?
@@UrbanPlumbers
I suspect only one coil should be connected (coil too big) as the boiler may modulate down on initial reheat, not dumping all its heat into the cylinder, until the return pipe warms up, keeping the F&R inside the delta T. But the 25mins reheat sounds about right for an 18kW boiler. So, the there may be no penalty in reheat time, and the boiler operating at a lower more efficient temperature.
@@UrbanPlumbers
Makers give the coil output in their literature.
Great video, extremely informative! Just a quick question, is an external programmer needed for the hot water? Or can you control hot water times with the Honeywell programmer you installed on this job? I understand this would be difficult unless using boiler brand controls with the correct boiler. 👍🏼
You could control it with one device without a programmer - nest or similar
Would it work with a standard open vent cylinder?
yes of course. There are special 117L high gain vented cyliners. You can get them from Intergas Shop.
You can still set up PDHW with a regural vented cylinder, but the coil is usually pretty small in those, so you would have to range the boiler to the coil.
@@UrbanPlumbers Also, I have an Intergas 18OV, heat only. How would the pump be wired? And since there is no overheat stat on the open vent cylinder how would the wiring be altered for that?
Thanks again!
Excellent video. I really enjoyed it. Does the Intergas boiler have an expansion vessel built in, or is it in the stand-off kit? Boiler is much neater without the stand-off bracket like you’ve installed it.
Intergas HRE don’t have a build in vessel. You can get a jig with a vessel though. I much prefer robi kits to integrated vessels, as you can get a bigger vessel and install it remotely. Easier to service or replace external vessel too.
There are other Intergas boilers with build in vessels: rapid and extreme
@@UrbanPlumbers Thanks for replying. I agree with you, the robi kits are a better solution. Our local suppliers did promote Intergas boilers a while back and I fitted a few of the Rapids, but they did have some burner ignition issues and intergas didn't really have enough service engineers to respond quickly so the supplier stopped promoting them. But I do like them.
Ever come across a HRE where doesn’t seem to be responding to a demand for hot water under x plan
Parameter 1 set to 1
4 to 75
Parameter A To option 6
As per the supplement guide
Even with no connections across x4 - 9&10 doesn’t respond to hot water demand
Yes, there is a button on the face of the boiler that needs to be pressed. I kid you not - on some HRE it is invisible !
@@UrbanPlumbers yes! About 10 minutes afterwards I realised
Since you replied so quickly - any thoughts on how to have water set hotter than 65? Set point on front panel seems to be limited to 65, but I’ve added mixing valve so wanted to store water hotter . Seem to cycling a bit on hot water so might have a bit of tuning to sort out. Cylinder is rated at 31kw
@@bobwylie158 set the DHW kW lower if it's cycling. It should not cycle on DHW water. I have never seen one cycle on DHW.
You can set higher DHW in the installer parameters.
@@UrbanPlumbers I can see the flow temp for heating cylinder (parameter n) but not a way to have cylinder storage temp apart from the front panel (seems to be limited to 65)
I’m trying to down modulate the hre 40 SB to 60% on pdhw and see how that goes but not confident from last nights test
@@UrbanPlumbers I can see the flow temp for heating cylinder (parameter n) but not a way to have cylinder storage temp apart from the front panel (seems to be limited to 65)
I’m trying to down modulate the hre 40 SB to 60% on pdhw and see how that goes but not confident from last nights test
Good video thanks what press fittings do you use?
Some weird brand that I get cheap online form direct plumbing supplies
Bloody brilliant video, top man! 😎
Glad you enjoyed it
Neat and tidy job, like how you label stuff to make it easy for the next plumber. I think you are the first plumber to install X-plan on youtube. I know Intergas prefers X-plan to W-plan but they don't explain why. Is it because 2 port valves are more reliable than 3 port valves?
It is because in heating mode valves are not energised. If you use 3 port instead it is energised in heating. Since heating is on more than DHW 3 port will fail quicker than NO and NC 2 port.
Nice one thanks for sharing, looking forward to getting intergass boilier with xplan myself.
Just to share, I believe you can also use a diverter valve (or mid position rewired to diverter) inverted (so A side is hot water) so the heating side is in a relaxed state to increase the life of those valves too. 🤓
Presume the lower coil is for Solar ?
Yes
What’s wrong with using plastic where it’s not seen ?
Nothing wrong. It’s just that push fit fittings are supposed to be accessible.
I work in social housing and that’s how we do it cos its cheaper and faster. always wondered the reason for running in copper under floor cheers pal 👍
On a different level.class
Thank you
What’s wrong with Worcester boilers?
they are years behind Vaillant and Viessmann, poor modulation, and poor build quality, notoriously difficult to work on. Horrible boilers. The customer service is good - that's about it.
Ply wood is better on don and dab ,for standard radiators .
@ 8:25 Someone really love bosch group boilers :))))) .... I have some feallings for them too :))) They are not that bad but they are not good either...
I actually like 4000 and 8000
@@UrbanPlumbers 4000 It is somewhat a honest boiler; 8000 It is more reliable and a little bit easier to clean but i still hate that I have to use strong chemichals to cleant the internal deposits …. + I cant like any Bosch boilers because they do not have a low water pressure sensor or equivalent… If I really insist I can install one that I can connect to the electronic board on the ports for external security devices…. I have a very long love and hate relatioship with Bosch group products …
Can somebody confirm this please?!
With PDHW , does it mean hot water will always kick in automatically as soon as the temperature drops in the cylinder tank??
Or will it be controlled by human to say "switch HW on now or on schedule"
I have 16yrs old cylinder tank and don't think it be a fast recovery technology and surely wouldn't want HW to kick in a lot of times through the day because 1)will be expensive and 2) heating be off during HW cycle 3) if PDHW is worth on a such old cylinder tank?
If this can be clarified please!
It can be done both ways - always on or timed. On vaillant you can set the DT between store temp and when the DHW kicks in as well, marine gas that if you set temp to 60 in the cylinder then you can adjust how many degrees below 60 the store needs to drop before the boiler kicks in to recharge the cylinder.
Thorough job excellent 👏
Thank you!
Hi lovely plumbing work ! But you will need a cable with more conductors, sorry. (As per Regulation 514.4.2 of BS7671).
What do you mean by that?
@@UrbanPlumbers There is a 5 core wire between the boiler and cylinder. You are using the earth conductor in the cable for the switched live, 2 for the NTC, 2 for Live and Neutral. Since the cable is carrying mains voltages, it should have an earth conductor. If you did it by the book, you should have run an extra cable.
For example if a nail goes through the live conductor, there is no earth for it to reference through and the nail stays live becoming an electrocution risk. Since most properties you work in should have functioning RCDs, I would just forget about the earth. If you do an install in a property with an old fusebox, you should definitely run the extra conductors.
Isn’t the earth cable to protect the exposed metal at the end it’s connected to? We are not concerned with mechanical damage or should he be using swa cable
@@EdthePlumber
An RCD or RCBO, continually monitors the Line (Active) and Return (Neutral) wires to ensure they are _in balance._ That is, inflow = outflow. If they are not in balance something is wrong so it trips cutting off the supply.
The Earth is not part of this sensing, so technically the RCD can protect without an earth connection.
BTW, it is now recommended that each circuit is fitted with an RCBO (combined mcb and RCD).
Electricity always wants to go back to where it was generated. So if there is a fault with the L touching a metal part of an appliance, when you touch the metal, the electricity will want to get back to its source via _you._ So having a wire (the earth wire, or CPC as Sparks call it) from the metal parts, _paralleling_ the Neutral wire (the return to source) ensures the full flow will not go fully through you, as you have a higher resistance than the earth wire. Note the earth and Neutral wires are _joined_ at the main fuse head coming in from the DNO.
@@Saaj2
A nail can be driven into only a Line (live) conductor - the earth is untouched. The nail will be live. Touch it in bare feet on wet floor, then all the current tries to run through _you,_ back to it source (the generator/transformer). If no RCD is fitted then the only protection is the MCB, which may not trip until maybe 40 amps has ran through _you._ By then you may be dead. That is why without RCD protection _bonding_ of metal parts was mandatory. That is joining all the metal parts together - no taking them to earth. That is if you touch a live metal part of an appliance at 240v, then grab a pipe, the pipe will also be at 240v, with current not running right through _you._ If you have full RCD protection, ugly, complex and expensive bonding is unnecessary.
Wow do you know your stuff keep up the good work
thanks !
great video
Thanks !
@@UrbanPlumbers how long did that took you ?
Very nice 👌 good job ..
Thanks a lot 😊
Why do plumber's keep saying 18kw system boiler is not enough for 11 radiators, shower and bath. 24kW is better and will not use more - they said 😟 thought 18kw is more than enough
Intergas makes 12kW just sadly not for UK
🤯 Subbed
Welcome :)
Man you are funny 🤣😂🤣
That a manual bypass again 🙈🙈🙈
Auto by pass mate, gate valve is just for the cylinder coil not the system
@@UrbanPlumbers 👍
Intergas great boiler. They deserved to be top brand beating installers choice brand. Sad.
I would still not prefer Intergas X plan.
I would confused my mates in gas industry. Go with flow. S plan sensible option.
S plan is definitely not a sensible option. Industry has to change and people need to get educated. Domestic gas has been dumbed down for years now and it has to change.
@@UrbanPlumbers Let's see how high Gas price change the Domestic industry.
Nest, Tado and Hive are all wired on 240v, calling it smart to fool users.
Always struggle to explain boiler sizing and next challenge is to explain low flow temp design.
Thanks for all your efforts on UA-cam. You are a top range Gas Engineer.
Thanks for bothering to reply.
Useless… why not use combi boiler, no need tank and cylinder.
Because you would have to upgrade gas, will have less efficiency, poorer hot water performance, no chance of connecting solar in the future, no use of 2 showers at the same time, more internal components on combi to go wrong, I could go on and on. Combi boiler is what makes this industry so poor in both design and understanding of how heating and hot systems work.
In this case combi installation was the same price as unvented when you take into account cost of gas upgrades and need for 40kW boiler
@@UrbanPlumbers you big mistakes, combi boiler at 32kwh you can use 3 showers and all heaters at the same time. Your knowledge brother is obsolete. You need to study the latest generation. So that your be coming customer can save money. Stop introducing very old and inefficient idea. Thanks
@@meetbol9039 yiu have no idea what you are talking about mate
Yes I I’m clearly out of planet of obsolete idea like yours. I’m on new generation Dude!
@James don’t have a clue??? I’m professional installer of combi boiler. I covered electric and plumbing. I always recommend to all my customers to change a combi boiler. All my customers are happy with my recommendation. I I’m installed as will baseboard heater. Probably this guy don’t know the latest generation.