I added a section on the writeup not long ago to give more of the big picture. L-36.com/UltimateMastClimbing.php . Check it out. Let me know if that helps.
Hi Alan, thank you for making this video, this has enabled me to climb up my mast for the very first time, I used exactly what you used, I am however going to suggest to myself to use a French prusik knot as it doesn’t lock under full body load, like the traditional prusik that you used, or the klemheist prusik knot, this video has been the only reason I have even attempted to climb anything for the first time let alone a mast! So thank you so much!
Hi David, I am pleased to hear of your success in climbing your mast. Thank you for the note. I typically use the klemheist prusik and have never had an issue with getting down. I am unfamiliar with the French prusik but with the little reading I have done to reply to you I would not use it. What you can do is just loosen your prusik a bit if it is too tight, kind of unwind it a small amount. I think that will give you what you want without getting something that might completely release and give you a scare or worse. You don't want to have something that if you panic and grab it, you fall. You really want to condition yourself that if you think you are going down too fast, let go and let your gear stop you. That said, there are several levels of redundancy when you are repelling down. You could even do it without a prusik and just hold the line with your hand. I wouldn't and many climbers wouldn't but many would as well.
Thank you for posting. Your demonstration of the individual devices & descriptions of advantages/disadvantages of each are very informative. I did not find details of this quality on rock climbing videos.
Thank you Allan for the video and more importantly your website. I've adopted this as my go-to method for solo climbing. Have used it only 3 times now but each time it get's smoother and more comfortable. I have an ATN Mast Climber as well, but don't like it nearly as much as these devices and this method, especially the descent. Cheers.
Thank you Marc. I am pleased you like the method and are using it. I have an ATN Mast Climber as well. I like the chair that came with it although I reinforced it. I think the newer ones are better but on mine the ascenders broke and it was always unscrewing one of the shackles. Scared me. I feel much safer with commercial climbing gear.
I bought all the equipment you listed and used this technique for the first time yesterday to go retrieve my wind transducer. I used my internal halyards as opposed to climbing ropes. The only issue I found was once I was at the top it became apparent that 3 turns on the prusik knot was too much. The knot was bound up tight and I could not release it without disconnecting my harness from it. Those were a few tense moments as I was temporarily only being support by one halyard and the bosuns chair. Once I reattached the prusik with only 2 wraps, the descend went very smoothly.
I am glad it worked out. Climbing rope is smoother as the cover has a tighter weave. That may be why the prusik gave you trouble. The ascenders in this method don't have spikes so at least they won't rip apart your halyards like most climbing ascenders would. Just for future reference, you could have tied the tail of the halyard to your harness before removing the prusik. But sitting stationary is pretty safe as I don't think you are going to slip if you are just sitting there particurally if you are being cautious as I am sure you were.
The diameter of your prusik matters too. If you check on some climbing forums they recommend 3mm below your main rope diameter and also stiffer lines grab less so go for one with the consistency and feel of soft paracord. If your prusik will not release, you're doing it wrong or using the wrong ropes. Practice.
or use the klemheist, similar to the autoblock, both easier to shift when off loaded. Be aware that a bowline is susceptible to untying when not under load! Consider using a figure eight and some half hitches to connect a line to a harness.
Thank you Allen! Great tutorial; bunch of tutorials in fact. I watched this one 50 times as well as reading the explanations on your web site and I managed to use the technique smoothly. Great!
Good timing as I'm looking for a way to mast climb independently of crew on deck. Next step is to buy some gear and test and become comfortable with its operation
I notice in the setup part of the video (at 1:34) that the rappel device and its carabiner are already attached to the sling on the ropeman-to-bosun's-chair carabiner, but later (3:02) they're hooked to your harness below, and you have to move them up. This seems like an opportunity to drop them and have to descend by the method used for the first few feet at the top of the mast. Is there a reason NOT to start with the rappel device clipped to the ropeman as shown at 1:34? If you do that, there's only a brief moment when the carabiner is opened to slip it through the loop in the "descent" line (the red one in your video). The belay device is already semi-secured to that line by the friction of pushing the loop through it. The carabiner is already hooked to the sling (and could even be better secured to it so that if you let go of it, it'd stay attached). This struck me, when I used your setup, to be the one weak point in the system, but if pre-clipping to the upper carabiner is bad for some reason, I'd love to know.
You have a good eye. It clearly either way works but one way is safer as you point out. This video was made with more than one camera. One was on a tripod some distance away. The other was a GoPro that was on a head band. As you cannot see the GoPro in the shots from the main camera, this was clearly also more than one climb. It is the GoPro footage that has the repel device clipped to my chair. I believe you are right and it should be in position so there is less chance of dropping it. The risk of dropping it is low but I obviously decided to avoid the risk when I did the final video. As I recall, I just did not think the GoPro version was good enough and did the second climb with the better camera before I published this.
@@L-36 Thanks for confirming. By the way, I got the system set up and used it, and felt more secure and controlled than I have with any other approach I've used. It DID take a little while to realize that having the foot loops connected closely, so that I could push the connecting strap against the front of the mast, would be a big help. Other than that small hiccup, things went fine.
Many thanks Allen for this video. I have no -absolutly no- experience with climbing and climbing gear so it took me quite a while and many views of the video along with the explanation on your website to understand your concept. But now that's done. I have one question: I find it rather hard (better said very expensive) to get the Sterling Rope Prussik Loop here in Germany. I have however lots of Dyneema 6 mm on my boat which I use for soft shackels. Would you think this would work as Prussik Loop as well? The Dyneema has a pretty slippery surface.
Before using the Sterling Prussik loop I just used a home made loop using a 7mm line from out local climbing store (REI). They even tied it for me. You can see how here www.animatedknots.com/prusik-knot. I would not use Dyneema but it might be fine. The problem is the stuff melts at a low temperature and if it get to that temperature it fails catastrophically and instantly. You would get no warning.
Well, I use a modified old ATN chair I had left over when the ATN system almost killed me and I started this quest for a better and safer way to get up my mast. Imagine my surprise when I was way up on my mast and noticed the shackle had worked itself lose and I was just being held up by luck. I did look for a commercial chair that I could recommend. The Black Diamond was completely unacceptable and is not even rated as life supporting. I made a video on it you can look at. I then bought a Crewlift 40 bosun chair and I like it a lot. However, I have not gotten around to trying it mostly because it is bigger than the one I am using and won't fit in the bag I use to store it. It seems like a much better chair and can go closer to the top because of the way it clips on. Here is an affiliate link to an Amazon page. I get a small commission if you click the link and buy anything. www.amazon.com/Crewsaver-Boating-Sailing-Crewlift-Bosuns/dp/B00UNALRUO/ref=sr_1_8?crid=1QSQ7SG4HKOOZ&keywords=bosun+chair&qid=1702997546&sprefix=bosun+chair%252Caps%252C141&sr=8-8&ufe=app_do%253Aamzn1.fos.d977788f-1483-4f76-90a3-786e4cdc8f10&_encoding=UTF8&tag=l36com-20&linkCode=ur2&linkId=43797345f0b8c6b3fcfb2b686f8099d2&camp=1789&creative=9325
Excellent video and website, thanks. I am going to model your system but I need to be able to work on my spreader ends. If I leave the climbing static ropes fairly slack to allow me to swing out will the system still be manageable? I don't need to do this a lot so perhaps the only way is to have a helper on deck to ease me out. If I do this in a calm marina would it work solo with slack static ropes?
You have to leave the tails slack. It helps to have them weighted as in coil up the excess line but the system will not work if you tie the ends down. Perfect for checking the spreaders.
@@Toob41 At 1:08 I am securing the halyard that raises the climbing line. Being slack is an important advantage and was a goal of all this research. Enjoy. Read the article on L-36.com as well. And be sure use the links to Amazon when you order your gear.🙂
Thanks for a great video. Could a similar setup be used with a single halyard? I am wondering how or if the ATC could be attached at top of mast if using one line which would be under constant load.
Thank you for the kind words. What you are wondering about sounds dangerous. I can note that you can go down without the ATC by just doing everything in reverse you did going up. I would guess there could possible be a sequence where what you are asking about would work. You would have to be on the ascender and put the ATC below that. Then transfer your weight to your feet and release the ropeman, get your weight to the ATC, then release the Roll-n-lock. I don't know and am not inclined to try it as I like to have the redundancy.
@@L-36 Thank you, I was thinking the same thing (putting the ATC below the ascender where there could be slack) but agree it is not ideal at all. I considered using a second prusick safety line around the mast since I only have the one halyard available. My goal of going up is mainly to install my spinnaker halyard which was overlooked when the mast was stepped.
@@CM-ef2fl Personally, I would just climb up and climb down using some form of dual ascenders. I have also used a jib halyard to climb and the main halyard as my safety or visa versa. Just swing the safety around the spreader. Then climb up and reverse the procedure to climb down.
Thanks for all the time spent on these how-to videos. Very informative. The one issue I found (in reviewing your methods) is that there are no dates of upload (in other words, indicating WHICH method you ended up preferring)? I went with the Pretzl Grigri as I saw this same method - almost identical, but using only one line (those crazy climbers : ) - but then watching closely, I noted that the Wild Country Ropeman seems to be a bit safer ... if you were to suddenly let go of your brake. HOWEVER, have you tried their (Wild Country) REVO Belay Device? This seems like a no-fail system, but I am not clear as to whether lowering oneself would be as easy as with the Ropeman? Could you provide your two cemments here ... if you are familiar with the device? Thanks again.
The method in this video is the one I use and I had occasion to use it a couple of weeks ago to retrieve a halyard. There are dates of upload listed under the title btw. I have not used the REVO but I just watched a video on it. I am actually not sure how I would use it, perhaps on the safety line. I can't see how it would be useful on the climbing side. I do like the Ropeman but just the Ropeman 1 as the 2 has teeth and you don't want that. I much prefer this "ultimate" method to the GriGri. Even with my improvements, the GriGri is a bit frightening. This method does require some rigging at the top but the slide down is so smooth and controllable. I really don't recommend the GriGri method. Just too many things that can go wrong.
One issue I have with the grisgris is the thickness of my 'fat' halyard rope is right at the limit of size. Good video. Clear, well presented. Thank you. (One thing that never ceases to puzzle me is with most How To videos about ropes how often they repeat what it is you should never do, and then present the method they recommend like it's a card trick.... )
@@L-36 Thank you for the info/video, it was certainly helpful. I find that using the GriGri is a matter of education and practice as many climbers use it to belay, ascend, and rappel down successfully for many years now. Descending for me is a piece of cake. When I need my break-hand, I tie a knot on a bite (I do not touch the locking carabiner). I would definitely not use existing halyard (climbing gear is designed for climbing ropes and diameter range). Lastly, in my experience I find that trying to be 100% safe can be dangerous for some because of additional complexity. Your call, every one has their comfort level, please seek proper climbing training. You really want to minimize your time up the mast, specially if you are unfortunate to be under way and need to.
Hi, are you happy with the ropeman 1 setup? Im thinking to buy one to try it. You’ve done a lot of testing on this, so you’re the expert around here 😛👏
Allen, I have a fractional rigged sloop, so only have the one (main) halyard going to the top. How would you secure both ascending and descending climbing ropes to the one halyard? The shackle eye is only large enough for one rope to pass through. Thanks for the great video!
Well, you are not going to avoid the one failure can kill you but that is a risk many people take. There is really no way to avoid it as if you halyard fails, you are in trouble. But that is extremely unlikely as your weight is way less than what that line can take. You clearly want to take the main line and put it through the eye of the shackle. The other line can then go on the shackle (tape it closed) or through the loop formed by the knot in the main line. Your chance of having the main line fail is small so anything you do for the backup up there is going to prevent secondary failures of your bosun chair and other equipment which I would assume is higher risk. Whatever you do to tie off the safety line is going to add a small risk compared to the unavoidable risk of having a single halyard. I have the potential for the same issue on my boat because I haul my forestay halyards up to keep them out of the sun. It the retrieval line fails, I will go up with the main halyard and I won't be too concerned.
Nice video thanks! Can you tell me how you would handle a situation in which you have to rely on the prussik and get down again? For examble if your bootchair rips loose of the karabiner. At that point you are hanging stuck on your prussik in your petzel climbing harness.
To get down if hung from your harness and the prussik you use your feet to lift yourself up and release pressure on the prussik so you can lower it. It goes like this. Let's say the rope is hanging straight down between your feet with your feet crossed so your right foot is above your left and the right foot is on the left side of the rope and left foot on the right side of the rope. Then use your left foot to move the rope so your feet are on their normal side. The rope will now be going down the outside of both feet. Raise your left foot which brings the rope up. Bring the left foot over the right and put your feet together so the bottom of your left foot is on the rope and the top of your right foot. Now with the left foot above the right and the rope is between them you can now stand up and release pressure on the prussik. Lower the prussik and release pressure on your feet. Repeat and you can get down. I guess I need to make a video on how to do this.
hello and thanks for all your hard work. I am however rather confused - do you have a diagram showing where all the lines and carabiners are connected? There are so many in the video I can't see which is which!
@@kevinmcbride7043 I will work on it. Might take a couple of days as I have engine issues on the boat I need to look into. Hopefully I don't need a new engine...
What do you do if you need both hands on top of the mast? I use your climbing setup and I need to change my windtransducer incl masthead and cable. I am able to stand at the top but I need both my hands for the job. I guess securing my upper body someway would help.
My suggestion is to secure the harness to the mast. Take a line or soem webbing from the harness around the mast and tie it off. The harness should steady you enough that you can feel safe using both hands. As with all new methods, practice it when you are close to the deck until you are comfortable that it is safe.
I am using the chair from my old top climber. I modified it so it would be stronger as I didn't trust it. I have purchased a crew saver chair and intend to use it for any big project. It is reasonably priced and looks even safer. I tried a Black Diamond and made a video about it. Not a good choice. Not really a bosun chair. More a place to rest if you are mountain climbing.
Hello, your linksays you use a climbing rope. Can yo please clarify? Do you have a dedicated line attached just for climbing? If so, how is it attached? I have Petzl ascenders but they have the teeth you spoke of and I am concerning they will damage my halyards if I climb on those.
I would use your pant inseam measurement as the distance from your feet to the carabiner. It isn't super critical as it just determines where the ascender will be on the line and a bit higher or lower doesn't change it as you just are going to pull it up to what works for standing up. I used a sewing machine but I recommend that you use water knots. Use a long piece of tubular webbing and make foot loops on each end. Then in the center you can put a knot to make the loop that the carabiner goes through. There are some videos on how to do water knots but I think that just forming the loop and making a single simple knot using the doubled over webbing is equivalent. Check that and make sure I am right. It would not kill you if they came undone but it would be annoying. The advantage of using knots is that it is adjustable. Roughly (hope this is right) if your inseam is 30 and you want the foot loops to be 10 and you want 3 inches of webbing past the knot then the total length would be (30 + 10 + 3) times 2 for the two legs. Then add 15 inches for the three knots. That is 101 inches so maybe use 10 feet or 1/3 of a 30 foot roll from REI and you have some extra in case I made a mistake or you are taller.
I just tried a water knot per the instructions and it is the same as just tying a simple knot in the doubled over webbing. So, take the webbing and fold it so that 18-20 inches are folded over then tie a knot leaving 3-5 inches hanging out. That will form a loop for your foot. Do that on both ends then tie a third knot half way up for the carabiner.
Thanks for the comment. I am using the Rope Man 1 ascender because it does not have sharp teeth that would grab the rope on the way down. I think the teeth of most ascenders are designed for ice and that is just not an issue on a boat, at least not when I am climbing my mast. I don't understand the second half of your question because I do use the prussik and an ATC on the repell. I like having the Rope Man there as if I ever want to stop, all I need to do is let go.
@@L-36 Hi Allen, yeah my comment was a bit rushed, sorry about that, I was talking about a petzl ascender so that you can remove it from the system when you are repelling - i would think its better to have a hand on the atc line and a hand on the prussik while repelling, holding the ascender open to repel just seems wrong. I'm looking for my own system and I think ill do a mix of things, that incudes your system, but also this method for the transition from ascend to descend ua-cam.com/video/YfUN59p5y_0/v-deo.html&ab_channel=SaddleHunting - and this system for the prussik/atc repel ua-cam.com/video/RoGyj1xg-wU/v-deo.html&ab_channel=LiveRogue - also im looking for a better way to secure the halyard, i think the best would be to tie an anchor strap to the mast itself and anchor the halyard to that, i read what you said about having the line away from the mast so the next best way would be to secure it to a bulkhead via a chain plate. I'm 6'2 and 110kg so i need the entire system to be very strong. its good that you have done a lot of testing different systems but i don't want to be my own guinea pig :) - spring is here and i really need to replace my halyard restrainer so i can go sailing!!
@@superformOG Well, there are lots of ways to rig things. If you followed the link to my website you can read about the versions I have tried and read a bit more on this method. One of the main differences between the methods you linked and mine is that I always have two ropes so if one breaks, the other will save me. All the standard methods are single rope and while this is similar, it is always 100% redundant. There isn't any single failure that will kill me. I recall using the top climber and looking down and seeing that the motion of going up had completely unscrewed one of the shackles. It didn't release the chair but if it had, I would have been killed. That really frightened me and is one of the reasons I went with mountain climbing gear and 100% redundancy. I think you are talking about securing the bottom of the rope. No need to do that with this technique and several reasons not to. After you are up a few feet, the weight of the rope keeps it in place. It does help if you coil up excess rope and give a bit more weight on the line but it isn't necessary. Good luck with your boat.
@@L-36 i was talking about securing the anchor end of the halyard - i dont trust winches or cleats - i have 3 chain plates on each side, i think ill make a system that connects to all 3 and up to a single point that i tie a bowline into.
@@superformOG OK, got it. My spinnaker halyards are set up for 1000 pound loads when using my free flying jib. I don't worry at all about the couple of hundred pounds I would present. I use horn cleats so no mechanisms to fail. Also, there are two halyards. But basically the loads your winches and cleats are holding is going to be way more than your weight. I personally would worry more about what it at the top of the mast. My halyards are internal with my new mast so I no longer worry about the blocks at the top.
Here's what I don't understand ... Allen uses two halyards. One of the halyards is tied off to his red climbing line using a bowline connected to the bosun's chair; the other to his waist harness. What is the point of tieing off the red climbing line to a halyard when one could just use the halyard by itself? That halyard is still under tension and has potential to break, regardless of the added red climbing line. Why not just use the two halyards as is? Note: I understand he is using two halyards. I just don't understand the point of the red climbing line tied to one of the halyards.
Climbing gear can be hard on a halyard and in my case where the halyards are dyneema it just would not work. The descender in particular is fussy about line diameter of the line and the toughness of the cover. Climbing line has a much tougher cover and has some stretch, which can be good if something goes wrong. It really depends on what kind of line you have on your halyard and how much you want to protect them. I have not tried using a descender on Sta-set so I can't say if it would work with the ATC. Make sure whatever rope you use is compatible with the gear you are using. REI is a good source of both information and rope if you are near one. Or you can just try your halyards. I have to admit, when I am trying things in my attic, I use retired line from my boat. Just test it and be confident in the backup.
I think a lot of work at the top might be done from slightly lower sitting in the chair as you are really way above the top if you stand. But that said if you wanted to really stand in the foot straps what you would want to add is a belt loop that goes around you and the mast so you don't have to hold yourself up. This is a pretty standard thing that tree climbers use and you might find some videos on them. I have not tried it although I have been meaning to. What people do is but it through some kind of cam like the rollin lock so you can adjust the tension but I think a prusik would work. But I have not tried it. You are pretty well secured so I would personally feel safe going up and trying something but it might be prudent to try is first lower down. Anyway, without a belt to hold you to the mast, one hand has to do that and if you are working at the top, you probably want both hands free. Look on UA-cam for Lineman's belt. Good luck.
The GriGri method is pretty easy but has a few issues. The main thing I don't like is all the re-rigging at the top. Half the time I could go to the top and find that I had rigged it wrong at the bottom which made it difficult to get it re-rigged correctly. You also have to re-rig if you want to get all the way to the top of the mast. Without re-rigging it can be downright terrifying going down. All the re-rigging makes it much more complicated. I used it for a couple of years but quit. This method is pretty easy if you leave the gear partially rigged when it is put away.
@@UpstateDS I started using climbing line for the GriGri. It is very picky about the line. Also, my halyards are Amsteel so I need to either use some yacht braid or climbing line. Climbing line also has some give in case something does go wrong. The cover is much stronger on climbing line. I once stripped the cover off a line in a rope clutch. It is just another layer of safety. You just need to know how to tie a bowline and I think every sailor does.
It's rappel, not reppel, and I'd not call this the ultimate at all. I can't for the life of me work out why you use the prusik to descend instead of the belay device?
Thank you for the correction. I can hardly spell my own name. I use the ATC for descending. The prussic just acts as an auto break on the ATC. I find this much preferable to going down using a GriGri, which is very difficult to control by comparison. I have used the GriGri for mast climbing many times and cannot recommend it. This method is much better. Also, the prussic is already on the line as the safety so no re-rigging at the top is not necessary except installing the ATC and releasing the roll-n-lock. Everything can be done with hardware secured so that there is no danger of dropping it on the deck. These are all factors that make this the ultimate method for me. If you have a better method that you have actually used please share.
@@L-36 I agree the GriGri has it's place, but I like simplicity. I even tried a Tibloc instead of the Prusik but the Tibloc shredded the rope and sometimes was very difficult to undo. I always go back to the same method: Prusik for safety line, twin ascenders for going up, and a figure 8 belay for abseiling back down. Simple, inexpensive, historically proven and safe. I might make a video one time of the setup, and show how it works.
@@mymobile5014 If you follow my website, you know I tried many methods for unassisted mast climbing. I started with twin ascenders and the prusik for the safety line. I would go down with the ascenders which was fine for mast painting (sand going up, paint going down) but not as good now that I have an aluminum mast that does not need painting. In general, I found ascenders that have teeth, like used in mountain climbing where they need to work on wet frozen rope, to be less than ideal on a boat. I used a micro-cender but had to up the size of the spring wire and ultimately it was taken off the market as even with stiffer wire, it would tend to slip. The Ropeman 1 is ideal. It has lots of grip and no teath. The rollinlock is much easier to use than an ascender because you can just pull on the rope instead of messing with the lower ascender. And of course, I tried using a GriGri but it is just too easy to rig it wrong at the bottom which gives issues at the top and the way I re-rig it at the top generates a lot of "feedback". But I found the rerigging necessary for a safe descent. The ATC works great, is easy to rig, and always tied in so cannot hit the deck and leave me stranded. I have a figure 8 device but prefer the ATC for reasons mentioned. I also like the idea that if I let go, I stop even if the main line were to fail because the prusik will lock the ATC. Anyway, this is why I call it the ultimate but that is only within the context of what I have tried but that is a lot.
@@L-36 That was the problem with the Tibloc, the teeth were very aggressive. The teeth on my ascenders are more like ribs which jam, a bit like the jammer on a mainsheet? I prefer the figure 8 which also ties on, simply because I find them quicker and easier to set up and use than an atc. The main difference though is I climb on 3 ropes, one sling to each ascender to a rope each, both attached to the harness. The Prusik is on a 3rd rope. I love the redundancy so I can go up and do anything I like knowing that if the worst came to the worst I couldn't really have done more. Except dismast and do it on the hard haha
I added a section on the writeup not long ago to give more of the big picture. L-36.com/UltimateMastClimbing.php . Check it out. Let me know if that helps.
Thanks, you should sticky this post to the top!
@@mikenichols619 Done. Thanks, great idea.
Hi Alan, thank you for making this video, this has enabled me to climb up my mast for the very first time, I used exactly what you used, I am however going to suggest to myself to use a French prusik knot as it doesn’t lock under full body load, like the traditional prusik that you used, or the klemheist prusik knot, this video has been the only reason I have even attempted to climb anything for the first time let alone a mast! So thank you so much!
Hi David, I am pleased to hear of your success in climbing your mast. Thank you for the note.
I typically use the klemheist prusik and have never had an issue with getting down. I am unfamiliar with the French prusik but with the little reading I have done to reply to you I would not use it. What you can do is just loosen your prusik a bit if it is too tight, kind of unwind it a small amount. I think that will give you what you want without getting something that might completely release and give you a scare or worse. You don't want to have something that if you panic and grab it, you fall. You really want to condition yourself that if you think you are going down too fast, let go and let your gear stop you. That said, there are several levels of redundancy when you are repelling down. You could even do it without a prusik and just hold the line with your hand. I wouldn't and many climbers wouldn't but many would as well.
Thank you for posting. Your demonstration of the individual devices & descriptions of advantages/disadvantages of each are very informative. I did not find details of this quality on rock climbing videos.
Thank you. Glad you found it informative.
Thank you Allan for the video and more importantly your website. I've adopted this as my go-to method for solo climbing. Have used it only 3 times now but each time it get's smoother and more comfortable. I have an ATN Mast Climber as well, but don't like it nearly as much as these devices and this method, especially the descent. Cheers.
Thank you Marc. I am pleased you like the method and are using it. I have an ATN Mast Climber as well. I like the chair that came with it although I reinforced it. I think the newer ones are better but on mine the ascenders broke and it was always unscrewing one of the shackles. Scared me. I feel much safer with commercial climbing gear.
I bought all the equipment you listed and used this technique for the first time yesterday to go retrieve my wind transducer. I used my internal halyards as opposed to climbing ropes. The only issue I found was once I was at the top it became apparent that 3 turns on the prusik knot was too much. The knot was bound up tight and I could not release it without disconnecting my harness from it. Those were a few tense moments as I was temporarily only being support by one halyard and the bosuns chair. Once I reattached the prusik with only 2 wraps, the descend went very smoothly.
I am glad it worked out. Climbing rope is smoother as the cover has a tighter weave. That may be why the prusik gave you trouble. The ascenders in this method don't have spikes so at least they won't rip apart your halyards like most climbing ascenders would. Just for future reference, you could have tied the tail of the halyard to your harness before removing the prusik. But sitting stationary is pretty safe as I don't think you are going to slip if you are just sitting there particurally if you are being cautious as I am sure you were.
The diameter of your prusik matters too. If you check on some climbing forums they recommend 3mm below your main rope diameter and also stiffer lines grab less so go for one with the consistency and feel of soft paracord. If your prusik will not release, you're doing it wrong or using the wrong ropes. Practice.
You can use an auto block instead of a prusik knot, it opens easy and is the best for a backup below the ATC.
or use the klemheist, similar to the autoblock, both easier to shift when off loaded. Be aware that a bowline is susceptible to untying when not under load! Consider using a figure eight and some half hitches to connect a line to a harness.
Getting above the top of the mast easily is key for me. This system seems to do the trick. Thank you for the video.
Thanks for the comment. Be sure to check out the web page and feel free to ask me anything. There is a contact tab on
L-36.com and I always reply.
Thank you Allen! Great tutorial; bunch of tutorials in fact. I watched this one 50 times as well as reading the explanations on your web site and I managed to use the technique smoothly. Great!
Thank you. Glad to hear it worked for you.
I might have to watch it 100 times
There is a recall on some of the Ropeman 1 ascenders (Orange. Batch 05A0722) . www.wildcountry.com/en-us/product-recall
Clever and well thought out.
Thank you.
Thank you, very helpful.
You are welcome.
This is so fantastic, but so complicated! I would need guidance.
Good timing as I'm looking for a way to mast climb independently of crew on deck. Next step is to buy some gear and test and become comfortable with its operation
Be sure to go to the website for more explanation. You can follow links to Amazon there once you feel comfortable with what you want to do.
This is great. Thanks.
Thank you.
That was pretty awesome. Def want to do it this way
Thank you. I appreciate your comment. Please follow the links on
L-36.com/UltimateMastClimbing.php as Amazon will help the channel if you do.
loved it. great thought gone into this
Thank you. It is my third generation system and I think the best of the bunch. The first one is still the simplest one though.
I notice in the setup part of the video (at 1:34) that the rappel device and its carabiner are already attached to the sling on the ropeman-to-bosun's-chair carabiner, but later (3:02) they're hooked to your harness below, and you have to move them up. This seems like an opportunity to drop them and have to descend by the method used for the first few feet at the top of the mast. Is there a reason NOT to start with the rappel device clipped to the ropeman as shown at 1:34? If you do that, there's only a brief moment when the carabiner is opened to slip it through the loop in the "descent" line (the red one in your video). The belay device is already semi-secured to that line by the friction of pushing the loop through it. The carabiner is already hooked to the sling (and could even be better secured to it so that if you let go of it, it'd stay attached). This struck me, when I used your setup, to be the one weak point in the system, but if pre-clipping to the upper carabiner is bad for some reason, I'd love to know.
You have a good eye. It clearly either way works but one way is safer as you point out. This video was made with more than one camera. One was on a tripod some distance away. The other was a GoPro that was on a head band. As you cannot see the GoPro in the shots from the main camera, this was clearly also more than one climb. It is the GoPro footage that has the repel device clipped to my chair. I believe you are right and it should be in position so there is less chance of dropping it. The risk of dropping it is low but I obviously decided to avoid the risk when I did the final video. As I recall, I just did not think the GoPro version was good enough and did the second climb with the better camera before I published this.
@@L-36 Thanks for confirming. By the way, I got the system set up and used it, and felt more secure and controlled than I have with any other approach I've used. It DID take a little while to realize that having the foot loops connected closely, so that I could push the connecting strap against the front of the mast, would be a big help. Other than that small hiccup, things went fine.
@@johnhughes1595 I am happy it is working out for you. It is always nice to hear success stories. Good comment about the foot loops.
Great info!
Thank you.
Many thanks Allen for this video. I have no -absolutly no- experience with climbing and climbing gear so it took me quite a while and many views of the video along with the explanation on your website to understand your concept. But now that's done.
I have one question: I find it rather hard (better said very expensive) to get the Sterling Rope Prussik Loop here in Germany. I have however lots of Dyneema 6 mm on my boat which I use for soft shackels. Would you think this would work as Prussik Loop as well? The Dyneema has a pretty slippery surface.
Before using the Sterling Prussik loop I just used a home made loop using a 7mm line from out local climbing store (REI). They even tied it for me. You can see how here www.animatedknots.com/prusik-knot. I would not use Dyneema but it might be fine. The problem is the stuff melts at a low temperature and if it get to that temperature it fails catastrophically and instantly. You would get no warning.
@@L-36 🙏🙏
Very nice video
Thank you!
Allen - what brand of bosun's chair are you using/recommend? Thanks again for the great video.
Well, I use a modified old ATN chair I had left over when the ATN system almost killed me and I started this quest for a better and safer way to get up my mast. Imagine my surprise when I was way up on my mast and noticed the shackle had worked itself lose and I was just being held up by luck. I did look for a commercial chair that I could recommend. The Black Diamond was completely unacceptable and is not even rated as life supporting. I made a video on it you can look at. I then bought a Crewlift 40 bosun chair and I like it a lot. However, I have not gotten around to trying it mostly because it is bigger than the one I am using and won't fit in the bag I use to store it. It seems like a much better chair and can go closer to the top because of the way it clips on. Here is an affiliate link to an Amazon page. I get a small commission if you click the link and buy anything.
www.amazon.com/Crewsaver-Boating-Sailing-Crewlift-Bosuns/dp/B00UNALRUO/ref=sr_1_8?crid=1QSQ7SG4HKOOZ&keywords=bosun+chair&qid=1702997546&sprefix=bosun+chair%252Caps%252C141&sr=8-8&ufe=app_do%253Aamzn1.fos.d977788f-1483-4f76-90a3-786e4cdc8f10&_encoding=UTF8&tag=l36com-20&linkCode=ur2&linkId=43797345f0b8c6b3fcfb2b686f8099d2&camp=1789&creative=9325
Excellent video and website, thanks. I am going to model your system but I need to be able to work on my spreader ends. If I leave the climbing static ropes fairly slack to allow me to swing out will the system still be manageable? I don't need to do this a lot so perhaps the only way is to have a helper on deck to ease me out. If I do this in a calm marina would it work solo with slack static ropes?
You have to leave the tails slack. It helps to have them weighted as in coil up the excess line but the system will not work if you tie the ends down. Perfect for checking the spreaders.
@@L-36 Thanks Allen. I will have to study the setup again as I thought at 1:08 you tightened the tails but I see at 2:14 they are slack.
@@Toob41 At 1:08 I am securing the halyard that raises the climbing line. Being slack is an important advantage and was a goal of all this research. Enjoy.
Read the article on L-36.com as well. And be sure use the links to Amazon when you order your gear.🙂
@@L-36 Thank you 👍
Thanks for a great video. Could a similar setup be used with a single halyard? I am wondering how or if the ATC could be attached at top of mast if using one line which would be under constant load.
Thank you for the kind words. What you are wondering about sounds dangerous. I can note that you can go down without the ATC by just doing everything in reverse you did going up. I would guess there could possible be a sequence where what you are asking about would work. You would have to be on the ascender and put the ATC below that. Then transfer your weight to your feet and release the ropeman, get your weight to the ATC, then release the Roll-n-lock. I don't know and am not inclined to try it as I like to have the redundancy.
@@L-36 Thank you, I was thinking the same thing (putting the ATC below the ascender where there could be slack) but agree it is not ideal at all. I considered using a second prusick safety line around the mast since I only have the one halyard available. My goal of going up is mainly to install my spinnaker halyard which was overlooked when the mast was stepped.
@@CM-ef2fl Personally, I would just climb up and climb down using some form of dual ascenders. I have also used a jib halyard to climb and the main halyard as my safety or visa versa. Just swing the safety around the spreader. Then climb up and reverse the procedure to climb down.
better to avoid even the eye of the shackle; tie above
Thanks for all the time spent on these how-to videos. Very informative. The one issue I found (in reviewing your methods) is that there are no dates of upload (in other words, indicating WHICH method you ended up preferring)? I went with the Pretzl Grigri as I saw this same method - almost identical, but using only one line (those crazy climbers : ) - but then watching closely, I noted that the Wild Country Ropeman seems to be a bit safer ... if you were to suddenly let go of your brake. HOWEVER, have you tried their (Wild Country) REVO Belay Device? This seems like a no-fail system, but I am not clear as to whether lowering oneself would be as easy as with the Ropeman? Could you provide your two cemments here ... if you are familiar with the device? Thanks again.
The method in this video is the one I use and I had occasion to use it a couple of weeks ago to retrieve a halyard. There are dates of upload listed under the title btw. I have not used the REVO but I just watched a video on it. I am actually not sure how I would use it, perhaps on the safety line. I can't see how it would be useful on the climbing side. I do like the Ropeman but just the Ropeman 1 as the 2 has teeth and you don't want that. I much prefer this "ultimate" method to the GriGri. Even with my improvements, the GriGri is a bit frightening. This method does require some rigging at the top but the slide down is so smooth and controllable. I really don't recommend the GriGri method. Just too many things that can go wrong.
One issue I have with the grisgris is the thickness of my 'fat' halyard rope is right at the limit of size. Good video. Clear, well presented. Thank you.
(One thing that never ceases to puzzle me is with most How To videos about ropes how often they repeat what it is you should never do, and then present the method they recommend like it's a card trick.... )
@@L-36 Thank you for the info/video, it was certainly helpful. I find that using the GriGri is a matter of education and practice as many climbers use it to belay, ascend, and rappel down successfully for many years now. Descending for me is a piece of cake. When I need my break-hand, I tie a knot on a bite (I do not touch the locking carabiner). I would definitely not use existing halyard (climbing gear is designed for climbing ropes and diameter range). Lastly, in my experience I find that trying to be 100% safe can be dangerous for some because of additional complexity. Your call, every one has their comfort level, please seek proper climbing training. You really want to minimize your time up the mast, specially if you are unfortunate to be under way and need to.
Hi, are you happy with the ropeman 1 setup? Im thinking to buy one to try it. You’ve done a lot of testing on this, so you’re the expert around here 😛👏
I think it is a good product. I would recommend it. Use this link and help support the channel amzn.to/2B6yT2v
Allen, I have a fractional rigged sloop, so only have the one (main) halyard going to the top. How would you secure both ascending and descending climbing ropes to the one halyard? The shackle eye is only large enough for one rope to pass through. Thanks for the great video!
Well, you are not going to avoid the one failure can kill you but that is a risk many people take. There is really no way to avoid it as if you halyard fails, you are in trouble. But that is extremely unlikely as your weight is way less than what that line can take. You clearly want to take the main line and put it through the eye of the shackle. The other line can then go on the shackle (tape it closed) or through the loop formed by the knot in the main line. Your chance of having the main line fail is small so anything you do for the backup up there is going to prevent secondary failures of your bosun chair and other equipment which I would assume is higher risk. Whatever you do to tie off the safety line is going to add a small risk compared to the unavoidable risk of having a single halyard.
I have the potential for the same issue on my boat because I haul my forestay halyards up to keep them out of the sun. It the retrieval line fails, I will go up with the main halyard and I won't be too concerned.
Nice video thanks! Can you tell me how you would handle a situation in which you have to rely on the prussik and get down again? For examble if your bootchair rips loose of the karabiner. At that point you are hanging stuck on your prussik in your petzel climbing harness.
To get down if hung from your harness and the prussik you use your feet to lift yourself up and release pressure on the prussik so you can lower it. It goes like this. Let's say the rope is hanging straight down between your feet with your feet crossed so your right foot is above your left and the right foot is on the left side of the rope and left foot on the right side of the rope. Then use your left foot to move the rope so your feet are on their normal side. The rope will now be going down the outside of both feet. Raise your left foot which brings the rope up. Bring the left foot over the right and put your feet together so the bottom of your left foot is on the rope and the top of your right foot. Now with the left foot above the right and the rope is between them you can now stand up and release pressure on the prussik. Lower the prussik and release pressure on your feet. Repeat and you can get down.
I guess I need to make a video on how to do this.
@@L-36 A video would be great
hello and thanks for all your hard work. I am however rather confused - do you have a diagram showing where all the lines and carabiners are connected? There are so many in the video I can't see which is which!
Did you read the article? l-36.com/UltimateMastClimbing.php. If that doesn't help, let me know and I will try and make it clear.
@@L-36 hi yes I did read it - what I was hoping for was a diagram showing the position of all the components
@@kevinmcbride7043 I will work on it. Might take a couple of days as I have engine issues on the boat I need to look into. Hopefully I don't need a new engine...
See above. l-36.com/umc.jpg
Thank you
You are welcome.
What do you do if you need both hands on top of the mast? I use your climbing setup and I need to change my windtransducer incl masthead and cable. I am able to stand at the top but I need both my hands for the job. I guess securing my upper body someway would help.
My suggestion is to secure the harness to the mast. Take a line or soem webbing from the harness around the mast and tie it off. The harness should steady you enough that you can feel safe using both hands.
As with all new methods, practice it when you are close to the deck until you are comfortable that it is safe.
i could not see what model/make of bosun chair you are using. Can you please let me know.
I am using the chair from my old top climber. I modified it so it would be stronger as I didn't trust it. I have purchased a crew saver chair and intend to use it for any big project. It is reasonably priced and looks even safer. I tried a Black Diamond and made a video about it. Not a good choice. Not really a bosun chair. More a place to rest if you are mountain climbing.
Hello, your linksays you use a climbing rope. Can yo please clarify? Do you have a dedicated line attached just for climbing? If so, how is it attached? I have Petzl ascenders but they have the teeth you spoke of and I am concerning they will damage my halyards if I climb on those.
I tie a static climbing rope to the eye of the shackle on my halyard and haul it up the mast. You will see this at the 1:00 mark in the video.
@@L-36 Brilliant idea! Thanks.
How long are the slings? How do you creat the looped sling for your feet?
I would use your pant inseam measurement as the distance from your feet to the carabiner. It isn't super critical as it just determines where the ascender will be on the line and a bit higher or lower doesn't change it as you just are going to pull it up to what works for standing up. I used a sewing machine but I recommend that you use water knots. Use a long piece of tubular webbing and make foot loops on each end. Then in the center you can put a knot to make the loop that the carabiner goes through. There are some videos on how to do water knots but I think that just forming the loop and making a single simple knot using the doubled over webbing is equivalent. Check that and make sure I am right. It would not kill you if they came undone but it would be annoying. The advantage of using knots is that it is adjustable.
Roughly (hope this is right) if your inseam is 30 and you want the foot loops to be 10 and you want 3 inches of webbing past the knot then the total length would be (30 + 10 + 3) times 2 for the two legs. Then add 15 inches for the three knots. That is 101 inches so maybe use 10 feet or 1/3 of a 30 foot roll from REI and you have some extra in case I made a mistake or you are taller.
I just tried a water knot per the instructions and it is the same as just tying a simple knot in the doubled over webbing. So, take the webbing and fold it so that 18-20 inches are folded over then tie a knot leaving 3-5 inches hanging out. That will form a loop for your foot. Do that on both ends then tie a third knot half way up for the carabiner.
Thanks
why not use an ascender on top and when repelling use the atc and the prussik?
Thanks for the comment. I am using the Rope Man 1 ascender because it does not have sharp teeth that would grab the rope on the way down. I think the teeth of most ascenders are designed for ice and that is just not an issue on a boat, at least not when I am climbing my mast. I don't understand the second half of your question because I do use the prussik and an ATC on the repell. I like having the Rope Man there as if I ever want to stop, all I need to do is let go.
@@L-36 Hi Allen, yeah my comment was a bit rushed, sorry about that, I was talking about a petzl ascender so that you can remove it from the system when you are repelling - i would think its better to have a hand on the atc line and a hand on the prussik while repelling, holding the ascender open to repel just seems wrong. I'm looking for my own system and I think ill do a mix of things, that incudes your system, but also this method for the transition from ascend to descend ua-cam.com/video/YfUN59p5y_0/v-deo.html&ab_channel=SaddleHunting - and this system for the prussik/atc repel ua-cam.com/video/RoGyj1xg-wU/v-deo.html&ab_channel=LiveRogue - also im looking for a better way to secure the halyard, i think the best would be to tie an anchor strap to the mast itself and anchor the halyard to that, i read what you said about having the line away from the mast so the next best way would be to secure it to a bulkhead via a chain plate. I'm 6'2 and 110kg so i need the entire system to be very strong. its good that you have done a lot of testing different systems but i don't want to be my own guinea pig :) - spring is here and i really need to replace my halyard restrainer so i can go sailing!!
@@superformOG Well, there are lots of ways to rig things. If you followed the link to my website you can read about the versions I have tried and read a bit more on this method. One of the main differences between the methods you linked and mine is that I always have two ropes so if one breaks, the other will save me. All the standard methods are single rope and while this is similar, it is always 100% redundant. There isn't any single failure that will kill me.
I recall using the top climber and looking down and seeing that the motion of going up had completely unscrewed one of the shackles. It didn't release the chair but if it had, I would have been killed. That really frightened me and is one of the reasons I went with mountain climbing gear and 100% redundancy.
I think you are talking about securing the bottom of the rope. No need to do that with this technique and several reasons not to. After you are up a few feet, the weight of the rope keeps it in place. It does help if you coil up excess rope and give a bit more weight on the line but it isn't necessary.
Good luck with your boat.
@@L-36 i was talking about securing the anchor end of the halyard - i dont trust winches or cleats - i have 3 chain plates on each side, i think ill make a system that connects to all 3 and up to a single point that i tie a bowline into.
@@superformOG OK, got it. My spinnaker halyards are set up for 1000 pound loads when using my free flying jib. I don't worry at all about the couple of hundred pounds I would present. I use horn cleats so no mechanisms to fail. Also, there are two halyards. But basically the loads your winches and cleats are holding is going to be way more than your weight. I personally would worry more about what it at the top of the mast. My halyards are internal with my new mast so I no longer worry about the blocks at the top.
Here's what I don't understand ... Allen uses two halyards. One of the halyards is tied off to his red climbing line using a bowline connected to the bosun's chair; the other to his waist harness.
What is the point of tieing off the red climbing line to a halyard when one could just use the halyard by itself? That halyard is still under tension and has potential to break, regardless of the added red climbing line. Why not just use the two halyards as is?
Note: I understand he is using two halyards. I just don't understand the point of the red climbing line tied to one of the halyards.
Climbing gear can be hard on a halyard and in my case where the halyards are dyneema it just would not work. The descender in particular is fussy about line diameter of the line and the toughness of the cover. Climbing line has a much tougher cover and has some stretch, which can be good if something goes wrong. It really depends on what kind of line you have on your halyard and how much you want to protect them. I have not tried using a descender on Sta-set so I can't say if it would work with the ATC. Make sure whatever rope you use is compatible with the gear you are using. REI is a good source of both information and rope if you are near one. Or you can just try your halyards. I have to admit, when I am trying things in my attic, I use retired line from my boat. Just test it and be confident in the backup.
Gotcha. Thank you for the detailed answer. Terrific instruction and method (even though I need to watch it numerous times). Cheers. @@L-36
With the proper footware, do you believe that you could work at the top of the mast relatively comfortably for an extended period of time? (ie 1+hour)
I think a lot of work at the top might be done from slightly lower sitting in the chair as you are really way above the top if you stand. But that said if you wanted to really stand in the foot straps what you would want to add is a belt loop that goes around you and the mast so you don't have to hold yourself up. This is a pretty standard thing that tree climbers use and you might find some videos on them. I have not tried it although I have been meaning to. What people do is but it through some kind of cam like the rollin lock so you can adjust the tension but I think a prusik would work. But I have not tried it. You are pretty well secured so I would personally feel safe going up and trying something but it might be prudent to try is first lower down. Anyway, without a belt to hold you to the mast, one hand has to do that and if you are working at the top, you probably want both hands free. Look on UA-cam for Lineman's belt. Good luck.
This is way more complex than a simple grigri, ascender and pulley combo imo
The GriGri method is pretty easy but has a few issues. The main thing I don't like is all the re-rigging at the top. Half the time I could go to the top and find that I had rigged it wrong at the bottom which made it difficult to get it re-rigged correctly. You also have to re-rig if you want to get all the way to the top of the mast. Without re-rigging it can be downright terrifying going down. All the re-rigging makes it much more complicated. I used it for a couple of years but quit. This method is pretty easy if you leave the gear partially rigged when it is put away.
@@L-36 can I ask also….why run a separate line up connected to the halyard….why not just use the halyard itself? One less knot to worry about
@@UpstateDS I started using climbing line for the GriGri. It is very picky about the line. Also, my halyards are Amsteel so I need to either use some yacht braid or climbing line. Climbing line also has some give in case something does go wrong. The cover is much stronger on climbing line. I once stripped the cover off a line in a rope clutch. It is just another layer of safety. You just need to know how to tie a bowline and I think every sailor does.
@@L-36 that's what I thought was the reason. Thanks for the info!
It's rappel, not reppel, and I'd not call this the ultimate at all. I can't for the life of me work out why you use the prusik to descend instead of the belay device?
Thank you for the correction. I can hardly spell my own name. I use the ATC for descending. The prussic just acts as an auto break on the ATC. I find this much preferable to going down using a GriGri, which is very difficult to control by comparison. I have used the GriGri for mast climbing many times and cannot recommend it. This method is much better. Also, the prussic is already on the line as the safety so no re-rigging at the top is not necessary except installing the ATC and releasing the roll-n-lock. Everything can be done with hardware secured so that there is no danger of dropping it on the deck. These are all factors that make this the ultimate method for me. If you have a better method that you have actually used please share.
@@L-36 I agree the GriGri has it's place, but I like simplicity. I even tried a Tibloc instead of the Prusik but the Tibloc shredded the rope and sometimes was very difficult to undo.
I always go back to the same method: Prusik for safety line, twin ascenders for going up, and a figure 8 belay for abseiling back down.
Simple, inexpensive, historically proven and safe.
I might make a video one time of the setup, and show how it works.
@@mymobile5014 If you follow my website, you know I tried many methods for unassisted mast climbing. I started with twin ascenders and the prusik for the safety line. I would go down with the ascenders which was fine for mast painting (sand going up, paint going down) but not as good now that I have an aluminum mast that does not need painting. In general, I found ascenders that have teeth, like used in mountain climbing where they need to work on wet frozen rope, to be less than ideal on a boat. I used a micro-cender but had to up the size of the spring wire and ultimately it was taken off the market as even with stiffer wire, it would tend to slip. The Ropeman 1 is ideal. It has lots of grip and no teath. The rollinlock is much easier to use than an ascender because you can just pull on the rope instead of messing with the lower ascender. And of course, I tried using a GriGri but it is just too easy to rig it wrong at the bottom which gives issues at the top and the way I re-rig it at the top generates a lot of "feedback". But I found the rerigging necessary for a safe descent. The ATC works great, is easy to rig, and always tied in so cannot hit the deck and leave me stranded. I have a figure 8 device but prefer the ATC for reasons mentioned. I also like the idea that if I let go, I stop even if the main line were to fail because the prusik will lock the ATC. Anyway, this is why I call it the ultimate but that is only within the context of what I have tried but that is a lot.
@@L-36 That was the problem with the Tibloc, the teeth were very aggressive. The teeth on my ascenders are more like ribs which jam, a bit like the jammer on a mainsheet?
I prefer the figure 8 which also ties on, simply because I find them quicker and easier to set up and use than an atc.
The main difference though is I climb on 3 ropes, one sling to each ascender to a rope each, both attached to the harness. The Prusik is on a 3rd rope. I love the redundancy so I can go up and do anything I like knowing that if the worst came to the worst I couldn't really have done more.
Except dismast and do it on the hard haha