Pintek vs Micsig Differential probe
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- Опубліковано 19 сер 2024
- I open a new package with a Micsig differential probe. I then compare the Micsig DP10013 to the Pintek DP25 differential probes.
Micsig differential probe link: amzn.to/3fTIASO
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Excellent comparison, invaluable for someone choosing between the two gizmos.
But aren't you jumping the gun, sir ?
Before I buy a DiffProbe, costing half as much as a DSO, I would need a LOT of convincing that it makes possible some functions VERY important to me, or simplifies some functions I do FREQUENTLY, etc, you get my point.
Please make a video on why a sensible engineer should own a Diff Probe, what are the things it can do in the REAL world.
Thank you! And I agree, the cost of these probes are too high - they should be a fraction of the cost of the scope!
I’ll do some videos where I show how to take measurements without them. I’m anxious to get into some projects after introducing all these tools;)
you can measure ac lines with these things and save your scopes from blowing up
BR Gurunandan I still like this comment;) I need to bring this back up!
BR Gurunandan - Differential probes are ideal for measuring signals where the signal is not ground-referenced. Some examples would be the output of a H-bridge, or if you need to see the signal across a resistor where neither end of the resistor is at ground potential.
There are alternative methods such as using 2 scope channels and then applying MATH to see the difference...but this ties up 2 channels which may be a problem if you need to look at multiple signals. It's also annoying if you need to perform this kind of measurement frequently.
The MICSIG unit works very well and is excellent value for the money. Just don't expect it to work to 100MHz - the BW is a bit of a marketing stretch...
@@KissAnalog scored the micsig for $200. Even as an electronics noob the insurance of not blowing up your scope bit seems worth it.
I found your channel recently and like your hands on approach and your ability to relate like you are talking to one of the guys in your office or mine and enjoying some shop talk. Looking to more insightful videos as you grow your channel. Best of luck !
wa4aos Thank you - I appreciate that feedback! I’m glad you found this channel and I’m happy to hear any ideas that you might have.
Just discovered your channel. I've been wanting to buy a diff probe but was put off by the prices. Your video has been super helpful. I will use your link when I pull the trigger.
That's great! Much appreciated;) I do think that both of these diff probes are great to use. I use them both all the time.
This is a great video because I am looking for a low cost diff probe. I think the switching node of the power supply will show more about the performance of the probes
Nice video. I have the micsig and tried your experiment. In the manual is says to plug the USB power into the scope being used. This protects the scope and it exhibits less noise!.. Using a phone for power negates the protection according to micsig.
Thank you. When I powered it by the battery I thought it would be cleaner voltage, but it could be putting out more noise. I don't know what kind of regulator it has inside it. Since then I have used the scope USB power but I haven't specifically looked at noise level. I'm glad you reminded me of this, so I'll have to check this out.
4:50 because litterally EVERYBODY has USB wallwarts laying around and the fact most scopes nowadays have a USB port , it does not come with a wallwart. Also, the USB on the side is a passthrough, in case you're using your scope's USB and still need it for other things.
Thanks for pointing that out. If I had not pointed out that it did not come with a power source - would have you pointed that out - just to be contrary?
You may not be aware but many diff probes do come with their own power source - but at these prices I’m good with them simply providing a common USB port. When using this you also need to be aware of the grounding of your power source. If a power source had been provided the grounding and noise level would have been taken care of. BTW did you notice that I used an isolated power source?
BTW: You really fixed the audio quality issues from previous videos. It's very good now!
Thank you! I finally realized a couple things that were adding a high noise floor. So much to think about when making these;)
For my needs I think the Mcsig will be good enough. Good investment if I am going to be poking around in Plate voltage so I don't kill an amp or my scope.
Yes, the Micsig is a great option. Now they have the new DP10007. amzn.to/3kisu6N
Thank you. Enjoyed the "regular guy" review. I like the Mig*'s price, bandwidth. But the length of the "fixed" leads has me feeling a bit uneasy. But for that price SHE'S A WINNER 😁
OvalWingNut YW, and thank you for the great comment! And I agree, she is a winner!
Hi!
Just remember: The shorter the lead, the lesser the heat!
What I'm trying to say: With shorter leads there is a lesser chance for pickup of unwanted signals.
Nice video! It might be that there is noise (such as harmonics) in your circuit that the DP25 (which only has a bw of 25 MHz) cannot see. The Micsig has a bw spec of 100 MHz, so it may be picking up noise well beyond that which the DP25 can detect.
That's great feedback. But, I did check the specs, which wasn't easy, and the Pintek does have a lower noise spec. I do really like the Micsig, and if you are looking at any signal that isn't really small it works great and the noise is of no issue. I haven't even noticed the noise in real use;) BTW, I think both probes are on par in quality to any that I have used at 10x the price.
@@KissAnalog Both the Micsig and Pintek seem to be an exceptional value, especially when you consider how expensive a Keysight, Tekronix or other major brand can cost. Some of the higher bandwidth probes cost thousands of dollars! Thanks again for this excellent review.
Cool, I'm not the only one who thought to twist their wires for probing!(Not arrogant enough to think I was, but most people I work with wouldn't have tried that.) I had some long banana cables connecting to my scope at work for some stuff, twisting a bit did reduce the noise measurably. Unfortunately there were other worse noise sources in one of the current probes I had, not sure why. Maybe some day I should mess with it if I have free time.
Thanks for that feedback! I know what you mean, most people I’ve worked with don’t bother either:)
20mhz DP versus 100mhz DP.. likely the reason for noise on the 5x higher bandwidth.
Take a shoot on the Pintek DP100 (4-range Attenuator), though it is even more ridiculous priced..
You got any impression of Micsig mobile scopes like the STO1104.. from the looks of it, it does come across full fledge.
Thanks for that feedback! I’d like to take a closer look at a Micsig and they did reach out, but I think this virus has shut down a lot of companies;(
Nice video and demonstration. I think that the noise floor of the Micsig being higher maybe because it has 4 time the bandwidth. Micsig 100 MHz and Pintek 25 MHz. Using the scope bandwidth limits would not change the front-end frequency response of either the Micsig or Pintek. Again Eddie I enjoy your videos and you have interesting equipment to demonstrate.
Good point! I think you might be right. I first bought the Pintek even though it cost a bit more because of the lower noise spec and I didn't care about the BW. But, I have also been very happy with the MicSig probes;)
@@KissAnalog No - @jwrtiger is incorrect: if they had the same noise density (in nV/sqrt(Hz)) and both had a BW > 20MHz, then reducing the scope BW to 20MHz should give same noise level on the scope (as long as the scope is not aliasing). They don't, so one probe is noisier.
Pintec has better attenuation choices, and you can easily use a coax cable with a banana jack to BNC connector, this may help with the noise.
Thank you for that feedback! I’ll have to do another comparison trying different signals.
Anyone here able to tell me where I can find a set of Female connectors that match the input connectors of the dp10013. TIA
I wonder if these would work? amzn.to/3wJaLxa
Welcome back! :-)
I like your review, I think it is wary hard to decide, but maybe for lower voltages after the transformer, the Pintek is better, lower noise and 20X. While the Micsig is more to the before transformer or tube amps, greater noise but maybe to "harder" tasks.
The missing CE mark is a bit of concern, you may try to open it and see if the probe is build to some acceptable standard.
I own a couple of the Micsig probes. I can confirm that the ones you can buy in the EU come with a CE certification, not sure about the US ones. Mine had certification papers in the box as well as calibration certificates. www.micsig.com/UploadFiles/file/DP%20CE.pdf
Thanks! I’ll do a follow up and use a different power source. Also I’ll check the documents for any safety mark. Now the CE mark is typically a self cert, but does show some level of thought towards safety. It wasn’t obvious on how to open it. I might have to peel off the label on front...
@@KissAnalog Yes the CE is properly often just stamped on the product if it is outside Europ, but inside Europe a product can only be sold if it conform to the wary high demands of CE. I think that it is the second highest standard next after the German tests. LOL it shall not be to easy for those who want to check? :-)
Fried Mule I found it, at the back of the unit in small print next to the serial number - there is a CE mark. Watching my video I could see the CE mark on the box, so I took a closer look;). I’ll do a follow up review and point that out - as well as use a clean USB power supply to see if the noise will be lower.
@@KissAnalog Okay that sounds great, both things. It could be wary interesting to see the difference in power supply's, maybe also talk about why / what make the difference (if simple) :-)
Thanks for the review. Very good stuff. Actually, I had a differential probe already on my wish list since a few months. I was hesitating which model to choose but your review was the final trigger to buy one. Thanks Eddie :) Even though the Micsig seems to be the noisier, maybe less sensible device in the lower voltage range, I decided to order it. Will arrive on Monday. Cool! The Micsig cost around 120 EUR in Germany which is 160 EUR less !!! than the Pintek which is sold around crazy 280 EUR!!!. Even the Micsig is still too expensive as mentioned in the other comments here. Anyway, can't be wrong to have one in my lab ;)
Markus Keller The Micsig is nice and will be a great addition to your bench;) I’ll be interested in hearing what you think. Thanks for sharing Markus!
wow, nice scope, the Instek mdo-2204eg 4 channel 200 MHz with Spectrum analyzer and 25 MHz AWG is about $1500? great video, thanks...:)
Thanks for the great feedback! I am having fun with a new PicoScope that I have now. It is a model that provides input for 4 differential probes, and is about the same price: ua-cam.com/video/HuZZ9Bi0eZI/v-deo.html
Good video, but you have noise (from your USB power bank?) coupling in to your micsig probe, both of mine give much lower noise... For best results use a cleaner 5V source like your scope itself (the probe is galvanically isolated at its power input). Thanks for following up on your other video and posting this comparison.
Thanks for the feedback! I’m going to try a different power source. I tried connecting the leads to different circuits and just assumed that my batter source was good, but now I want to check that.
I would just power it from the O scope the power there should be fairly clean.
@@KissAnalog
Maybe instead of a powerbank you need to use a USB connector on an oscilloscope? ua-cam.com/video/dzeK3Nm3N44/v-deo.html
I also want to buy micsig myself because of the price. Without differenzial sonde, an oscilloscope with non-isolated channels is useless.
I'm hoping my siglent handheld powers up the hantek through its usb. Would suck to have to run down another power source just to use the probe. Great vid!
pbl57lsu it will, I’ve done that too!!! Great to hear from you!
I assume I only need one differential probe if I want to use both channels under any measuring scenario? I measure voltage drop frequently and I'm under the impression I can do it with one channel floating and 2 channels if I'm using the additional differential probe? I'm just wanting to make sure all scenarios (including drop voltage) are safe or if it requires 2 differential probes?
pbl57lsu The ground of the scope probes is also referenced to the ground at the power input of the oscilloscope. So, if the circuit being measured is not on the same ground, or what is being measured is referenced to that ground - then only one differential probe is needed.
@@KissAnalog sorry if I didn't clarify I would be using a handheld battery powered oscilloscope with non isolated negative terminals. I bought a differential probe for 2nd channel measurements of different voltages at the same time. I wanted clarity that either channel (channel 1 with and channel 2 without the differential probe) could make measurements anywhere on a circuit safely. Ex: (Ch 1 ++,+ -, - - in addition to ch 2 ++,+ -, - -) without creating shorts or overload. I really appreciate your help. This information is not readily available.
With a battery powered scope, the first probe you can place anywhere so long as the voltage is within the scope probes spec. Then using a diff probe on the second measurement, you can pretty much place it anywhere. I have a Tektronix scope that actually has isolated channels for both inputs;)
Could noise difference just because the MicSig has a higher bandwidth (100MHz) versus 20 MHz? This must be one factor at least, the range difference - and divider network- making up for the rest?
John Thefox I think you are right about each of those factors. With the higher voltage divider - the signal to noise ratio is worse for smaller signals. Thanks for sharing! I’ll have to do some more work with these;)
WOULD YOU GIVE A PRESENTATION ON EXPLAINING PHASE MARGIN AND,HOW TO CALCULATE IT?
You bet! That’s a great idea x and I can fit it into the series I’m going to start on Bode plots and FRA. Thanks for asking.
THANK YOU FOR YOUR VALUABLE TIME.
You are welcome - and thanks for the support!
If you are standing on the floor and holding ONE red probe contact with your hand, is there interference on the oscilloscope screen (signal)? Leave the black contact unconnected.
Yes it will look that way. It is an open ended signal (floating) and with the high impedance input, it will look like an antenna;)
Does a person need an isolated transformer using this probe? Im looking to get away from earth grounding and so many options today. I will be using a Variac since i work on things with shorts. But need the oscilloscope to see how far into the unit its broke at times. I am self taught so didnt understand earth grounding as i never lived without it. Things were starting to all be grounded by the time i grew up.
Thanks Rocky - great question!! No, actually these type of probes have a high impedance on each lead, so you can't short your scope out by connecting them to a grounded circuit as you can with a normal scope probe.
How have they held up for you after ~3 years? I'm looking at the Micsig, but they actually make three 100 MHz models... a DP10007 (700V with 10x/100x), a the DP10013 you have (1300V with 50x/500x) and a DP20003 (5600V with 200x/2000x). The DP20003 outside my range of needs, so I'm debating between the DP10007 and DP10013, leaning towards the DP10013. Oddly enough, they both are about the same cost at $185 (the DP20003 is $250). The one advantage the DP10007 has is the 10x/100x range that matches up with most scope attenuation settings, making measurement easier to read.
One thing I see people say is to watch the voltage ratings/markings... they are actually peak-to-peak and not RMS values.
Thanks for asking! They have been great! I have also done a video on the DP1007. ua-cam.com/video/QQcZR_KV0P4/v-deo.html
There is also a new probe out that is fantastic. Here's a video: ua-cam.com/video/bFWJUmgs_8M/v-deo.html
I will do a comparison of all the micsig probes to show them side by side and talk about how they differ. I'll do this very soon;)
@@KissAnalog Nice! I appreciate your help and the reviews.
Looking for an opinion... since I only work on things like power supplies, do you think the 10x/100x range (DP10007) is preferred over the DP10013 or DP750-100? Are those too much for my needs and am I better off with the better sensitivity in the lower range model? The 1300V capacity of the other two is interesting and I hate to limit myself with only 700V.
If the lower voltage probe had been out when I bought mine, I would have selected that as I would rather have the sensitivity. Saying that, I haven't really seen any drawbacks with the higher voltage probe. I think I need to take a close look and compare them. I'll do a video very soon and do that. The pintek had great specs, so that's why I originally bought that one - even though it cost more:)
@@csimet I just bought a micsig DP10013, and I chose the higher voltage rating one so that it should handle the higher dc voltages found in power supplies with Active PFC in the front end - the DC bus in those runs at a higher voltage than just rectified AC - you essentially have a boost converter there instead of a diode bridge rectifier. I've only had it for a few hours and already found the issue in the power supply I was working on! If I ever need the higher sensitivity of the 700V probe, I'll get one at some point in the future, but I think the higher voltage one will be good to start with. I actually have a number of power supplies kicking around that need some work, and not just simple "replace the caps" type repairs.
@@csimet Two things to note as of now (late 2023) - the micsig probes no longer come with the normal/bananna probe tips - they only come with the alligator clips and the long grabbers now. And also not mentioned in this video is the USB Power pass through port, so if you have multiple diff probes, you can power them all through one usb port on the scope (or other power supply) without needing a usb hub or power splitter or something.
...Hi again. While watching your videos, particularly this one comparing both differential probes, I also watch the most recent that includes the Micsig 10X, 100X, 70V - 700V, 100Mhz from Micsig my question is, knowing that the first Differential Probe ist 50X, 500X, 130v - 1300V, 100Mhz...would you consider the last one as the differential probes of choice for measuring Power Supply and line voltages?, That is if you have to choose one of them...thanks for your kind reply in advance with my respects from PR.
Note: My question is because you got the opportunity to use them for a little while.
Thanks for the excellent question! I think you want to have enough headroom so that the instruments are safe, but not so much that you don't get the best accuracy. For 120 or 240Vac, I think 700 V provides the safety, but and gives good resolution at lower voltages with the low range. If the bandwidth is good at the scale that the probe is in, then it is just a matter of safety first then resolution;) Does that make sense?
Thanks again for your kindness. You are right without any doubt. Micsig just offered those differential alternatives to give a wide choice to the customer's particular needs when we look their products. I asked you as I told before, because the great opportunity to try them in real time looking around your bench activity, having the feel and touch as well as their behavior against the published manufacturer specs. For me, I use to have two of them (Each model) when I am making measures between two channel while characterizing the waveforms in circuit designing.
It's a great pleasure to talk "virtually "with you. I am too much obligated to you, my respects as usual.
Thank you sir . if you find way more cheeper Please let me know sir thank you.
Thank you and I sure will! I plan to design my own differential probe that will be low cost;)
Hey Eddie, again thank you for a new video and welcome back.
I again have a question, what is the difference between a differential probe and an isolated frontend like the Siglent ISFE?
Hi,
I believe that the Siglent isfe has a 1Mhz bandwidth and is limited by the voltages you can scope.
The differential probes are 25Mhz and 100Mhz bandwidth.
A scope with a true isolated front end, the bandwidth is equal to the scope bandwidth.
The main difference is price point.
ATB Adam
Adam L thank you so much for answering. I am trying to find a cheap oscilloscope for my bench for mostly audio work (I build custom iems). it is such a confusing topic.
I think I need a differential probe to save me from myself, and I need to measure current to calculate speaker coil inductance.
I wait for eddies video about measuring current with a resistor, maybe I get by without a current clamp. My entire circuits fit inside these.
@@Krmpfpks
You won't go far wrong with siglent isfe, that would be fine for the audio frequencies of 20hz to 20Khz.
There's quite a few budget scopes around, for about 400 bucks, Rigol, siglent, hantek
Just choose what suits your budget.
As for measuring inductance an LCR meter would probably do the job.
ATB Adam
Adam L that is so nice of you to help me. The ISFE is not cheap either (I think $150), but it covers two channels.
I bought an LCR but the inductance of balanced armature drivers is so small I did not get meaningful measurements. Also I will need to check different amplitudes and frequencies, as inductance is also depending on air pressure. It’s a nice rabbit hole I‘m down.
Currently I am looking at Hantek 4072C, it’s cheap and function gen is included. But I don’t know if 8 bit is enough, 8 bit audio sounds bad so I have to figure out if the missing resolution is covered by the higher sample rate.
Sorry for writing a novel of a UA-cam comment; I am just thankful you helped me. When you‘re on a budget, buying the wrong tools really sets you back.
I agree with Adam, the Siglent would be great for audio frequencies and it has two channels. It does have a 200x attenuation, so I wonder how well this would work with low voltage signals...
Sir can you please suggest me very low cost differential probe and low cost current probe.
Actually I'm a student, I don't have money for costly probe ..
This is a link to a video on low cost current probe. The Micsig is probably the lowest cost differential probe: ua-cam.com/video/Aw-O-7UpZMQ/v-deo.html
Any chance you ran this at high frequency to confirm there’s only 3dB attenuation at 100MHz? Wondering if this will work for measuring fast high voltage edges (700V in tens of nanoseconds)
That's a great question! I've meant to do a follow up video on these. I'll try to get to it. I think they could do what you are asking.
@@KissAnalog I asked Micsig directly and they provided a link to a comparison done on EEVBLOG. Looks like performance is comparable to a Tektronix differential probe. Thanks for your reply and excellent video. I'll keep in mind the effect leads have on the measurements.
Here's the EEVBLOG link with scope shots a few messages down: www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-low-cost-($170)-100mhz-differential-scope-probe-from-micsig/50/
I gotta get me some of them but the wife would never let me pay that much for probes haha I don't deal with hv much anyway
Fun stuff, but if you don't need them then save for what you do actually need.
I may have found a way to make a 4 ch
Sorry, my job has had me working OT. I would love to do this full time;).
This is a project that I’ve had planned for some time now. Now that I’m doing this channel, I see even more reasons to do this! Yes, I am interested! Thanks Fried Mule!
I apologize for the stupid question. What diff probe would you recommend for a low voltage measurements ( mv range)?
I think the Pintek as it seems to be lower noise at the low levels. A bit more expensive though...
You asked what I think... I think you measured the rise time of the probes incorrectly. With a power supply being switched on? C'mon...
Thanks for commenting - every comment helps others to understand more I hope. I was actually comparing the probes while measuring the power supply rise time, I didn’t mean to give the idea that I was measuring the probes bandwidth. I’m not even sure I have the instruments for that. I’d have to have something with a risetime faster that pun 3.5 ns. The Micsig has 100 MHz bandwidth while the Pintek actually has a 25 MHz. The rise time measured would have been near the Pintek’s limit, but it seemed to capture about the same wave shape as the Micsig. I’ll have to try and do a more comprehensive review of each of these probes.
❤❤❤
Thank you!
Good comparison video. However, I don't know why you find the Micsig so impressive. Appears to be cheap Chinese junk from what I see. Molded leads - bad. Thin coax - bad. Noise - bad. No listing mark (CE or otherwise) - downright dangerous for something that goes up to kV levels. You get what you pay for.
Thanks Wes! You are right - but then again they are only rated for CAT II, so there's not a lot of energy there. Basically bench work. i guess I'm impressed because they see to be made much like 'brand' name probes that I use on the job, but don't cost $1500 to $6000. I think diff probes are so over priced, so I'm impressed with probes that the average Joe might be able to afford. Also, those 'name' brand probes have special inputs, and it seems that every new model that comes out forces us to get all new probes. That's probably why they are leased.
Bad practice....Poking your finger and touching your DUT when pointing out stuff. Seen you do it multiple times in this video.
Eventhough YOU know it is not powered....
Mistakes are made. Not the best example and a bad habit.
Thanks but I am always careful with keeping power off when moving probes or pointing things out. When I am doing videos it takes me so much longer because I have to be extra careful while also thinking about lighting, sound, batteries, and video.
Omg.
LOL