Jim Cornette on NWA Promoters' Picks For World Champion
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- Опубліковано 5 жов 2024
- From Episode 248 of Jim Cornette's Drive Thru
Artwork by Travis Heckel!
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NWA meetings sound like mobster negotiations in the movies.
It was a monopoly for the most part so you're probably pretty close on that.
You're not far wrong. Even the promoters that everyone tended to like -- Frank Tunney, Sam, Vince Sr. -- were no strangers to playing nasty when they had to.
There's a good interview/documentary with Lou Thesz on youtube from the 80's. In it he gives his opinion on each NWA champion/world champion since it's inception with Hackenshimidt.
That sounds very interesting, thank you!
Huh? The NWA's inception was 1948 and Orville Brown was the first champion.
@@MrNWA4Life He typed "NWA champion/world champion", not merely NWA Champion. Hackenschmidt is widely recognized as the first wrestling world champion and this predates the NWA World Championship.
What is it called?
I love it when cornie talks about NWA. You should do a NWA segment everyday . I love the history of wrestling before I got to watch it my wrestling viewership started in 83 as a five-year-old.. so this stuff is always fun to listen to
You forgot about "Whipper" Billy Watson out of Toronto.
Actually, when Dusty won his second title in 1981 he was working in Georgia. When he won the first time he was in Florida.
Cornette is so awesome. Great knowledge. This video is great education on history of the NWA.
The NWA schedule in the days of Thez was 200 dates spread out over 40 weeks Thez got 10% of the gate plus travel and another 3% that was split up between Sam Munchnick and Strangler Lewis
I know how important the NWA was to Jim, but damn, it was easier to book an international war than the world champion.
To be a fly on the wall in those meetings.
Frank Tunney in Toronto backed both Funks as well as Harley . Dusty laid a huge egg in Toronto in 81. Frank Tunney was also pushing Dewey Robertson in the early 80's.
Lou Thesz vs Bruno Sammartino happened in 1963 in Toronto. It supposedly drew about 9,000. Thesz did the match as heel. The match ended in a new double-count out where Thesz at the end of the count moved an arm to barely touch Bruno and was declared the winner.
Negotiating the booking for the match and the finish must of been a nightmare.
@Jim Turner, & sadly there's no footage here on YT of Bruno working with Lou.
Bruno was a God in Toronto in the 1960s (T.O. had the largest Italian community in North America at that time), but Toronto was in a down-turn at that point, and even Bruno couldn't pop the house more than ~9000 between '63 and '68 (at that point, Maple Leaf Gardens was SRO at about 12,000 for wrestling; after the renovations in 1971-ish, 14,500 was SRP). But it was Bruno's work in T.O. prior to 63 that made Vince Sr., decide to go with him over Rogers. Bruno also had a good run in Montreal during his "NYC blackball days".
I don't know who was booking for Tunney then, it could have been Billy Watson, but he didn't do a lot of booking during those years. Ed Farhat and others would take over post-1968, but 1963? You may wanna talk to Jim Melby or Greg Oliver about that....
Jack Brisco and Harley Race couldn't have been defeated by anyone. Except Danny Hodge.
I wish Jim cornette would just write a book about all the wrestling territories and how ppl traveled from place to place. Also the pay for wrestling. I think alot of these new wrestler's would appreciate the business more if they knew the history of it.
It's crazy guys like HHH, Punk, Cena, Orton, etc have been of politicking.. and they all have to some level, but back then it was crazy. The top guys basically didn't do jobs at all. For decades
At least not "in front of 70,000 people at The Superdome!"😏😂🎤🐴💎💸🤼♂️B.W.
"Bruno wasn't trained in shoot wrestling"
Google- Bruno trained in wrestling in high school and by the university of Pittsburgh coach......🤷🏿♂️
But would that be enough to be a shoot wrestler in the pros? Not sure.
High school. Really. That's the hill you want to die on
I think Corny means Bruno was not the shoot wrestler Thez. A comparison would be someone like prime Triple H or John Cena both incredibly strong but no match for Kurt Angle.
Rogers was a controversial choice. He was one of the least trusted guys in the business in that era and had a whole gang of guys around him that he would get card positions for. The rogers era lasted a long time, but they were done with him as a true NWA champion in a few months.
Rogers hurt alot of wrestlers. Crippling people he worked with is why he was so unpopular behind the scenes. Even the guys in the Northeast eventually figured him out and got rid of him.
List them all
@Jim Tuner Rogers wasn’t reliable but him being on the card was like printing money.
He also used to say "Screw your friends, become friends with your enemies so you can screw them too."
@@philipclarke9696 Yeah. He drew money. But he was better used (in my opinion) as a specialty wrestler rather than as a champion. He needed to be kept on a short leash and put in against only guys who could take of themselves. He especially needed to be kept out of any position where he could get leverage over a promotion. Better as a special event challenger than as a champion.
@@Jim-Tuner He also liked to go to a territory with his "crew" of friends, burn them out, leave the territory when it's about to go down and crash.
Bruno was not the in-ring worker that all the other prominent NWA champions were, I don't think it would of worked in places other than the northeast.
There's only about a handful of prominent NWA World champions and Bruno was just as good of a worker (whatever you're trying to imply with that term) as Dusty was.
@@quentinkaasa47- Harley Race and Jack Briscoe are Ric Flair were great workers better than Bruno was. Bruno mostly kicked and stomped his opponents. Harley, Jack and Ric actually wrestled. 🤔👍!!
@@harrydaniels2788 Backlund could do a variety of wrestling maneuvers too, doesn't mean he was overall a great worker.
@@quentinkaasa47 - I watched some Bob Backlund matches on UA-cam and he was boring. Even his promos were boring but the guy could wrestle.
Bruno could wrestle scientifically but he played to big crowds who just wanted him to kick and bloody the main heel of the moment. He was not a great seller though and a world champion has to be able to make others look great. That was def not Bruno's thing.
Bruno vs thez In MSG what a sight that'll be
What is the Atlanta incident that Brian references around 8:45?
Probably the Gunkel's
I'm no expert, but I've always read/heard that Thesz wasn't as big of a draw in the northeast as he was in most of the rest of the country.
Thesz drew in the northeast. But an ethnic champion like Bruno drew better. The other problem with Thesz (generally) is that if he came to a town, he would crush the local guy. That was good for Thesz, but bad for business in that town.
LOVE this upload and going over the extremely interesting history and politics of the NWA World Title. I would've LOVED to have been in the room for those NWA National meetings in the 50s, 60s, and 70s
I love hearing Corny talk about old school topics like this :)
McMahon Sr actually sat on the NWA board for periods. He was one of the men who gave Flair the nod in 81.
Gagne too, I think Gagne was actually kept on the entire time for the most part.
@@maxxdahl6062 Unofficially, I think. Verne had points in St. Louis, and he and Sam were always friendly, but I don't recall him on any of the membership lists for the annual meetings then. But he was a voice that would have been listened to, even if he didn't have a vote.
@@Travlr013 I think he was there, undocumented if I'm not mistaken. I seem to remember people saying he still got a vote for champion, etc. As did vince sr.
@@maxxdahl6062 Not all (promoter) members had a vote on who would be Champion; they had to be on the Championship Committee, which I THINK was limited to 7 people. Verne, not being an official member wouldn't have been there for that, Sam's friend or not.
@@Travlr013 Not all, that is correct. Paul Boesch nor Joe Blanchard would be able to. But I've heard people such as Flair say both Verne and Vince Sr voted for his first championship run in what 1979? Long after they both broke away from the NWA. Granted it was an amicable split.
Fun Game for the Chat. Let’s say they did this today between the “promoters” today. So let’s say Vince, TK, NJPW, Billy Corgan, and whoever runs IMPACT.: who would they pick to be NWA Champ? It’s gotta be Roman ?
Is Roman the draw or is the brand the draw ?
Brock Lesnar?
if not brock, then cody or bryan danielson
@@ronniejdio9411 When Roman takes vacation, the viewer ship dips. Sometimes as low as Raw. He might not be Prime Hulk Hogan, but he is money.
@@ronniejdio9411 that’s a great point. I’m not sure. Last weeks ratings were up, but like you alluded too was that because Roman Returned or people wanted to see Vince
In my Opinion Jim Cornett is the Most influential Non wrestling Talent in the History of the Business.....
Not even in top 50
@@kevindouglas5333 then you don't know the business got it
Vince McMahon by far and it isn't even close. 90% of fans wouldn't be fans without Vince and the WWE.
@@dibslin2.081 pfft Vince stole from people don't get me wrong he did do a lot but Hes ruined as many careers as founded But I can see that..Still say Jimmy>> Vince
NO, that's Heyman
Man I love the (G)old school wrestling talk.
Is Charlie from Starkville Brandon Walker?
I love how the NWA World's Heavyweight Championship has the old Canadian flag. Great art.
Weirdly , the Maple Leaf flag had been around for nearly 10 years by the time that belt was made....
@@Travlr013 I didn't know that. I wonder why they kept the old design on?
Lou Thez v Bruno Sanmartino at Madison Square Garden in the mid 60s probably could have pulled in 7 figure gate easy
@, & I'm sure if Bruno would've worked with Verne, that they could've made alot of $ like 6 or 7 figures also
Sounds like Eddie Graham is the answer.
When was the "Deposit" idea-situation invented involving the NWA World Champion?
I am surprised they didn't make Verne champion, he was about as legit as it got.
Never heard his Magic Spoon Commercial..... That was too much...LOL
Cereal sounds good, I think I'll get those 4 boxes. :::Goes to website::
Chris Rock's Cheap Pete Voice: "FORTY DOLLAS?? GOOD LORD That's a lotta money".
Anyone on here remember a wrestler by name of Sonny King when in WWWF. Just don't hear to much about Sonny King.
Yes!
He was a manager in Florida around 76 & 77. It was Sony Kings army.
@@tommylewis7558 Thanks, I remember seeing I remember seeing Sonny King and Chief Jay Strongbow were tag team partners in the WWWF .
Managed The Moondogs in NWA Georgia. Was a Heel Manager for The Fullers in NWA Southeastern. There's a clip on here where the very menacing Sonny King and his heavies threaten Big Red Reese and the very young Rick Morton on TV in Memphis. S.K.'s trademark was a lollipop in the style of heroic Seventies TV Detective "Kojak" as played by the equally clean shaven Telly Savalas.🤔👮♂️🎤🤼♂️B.W.
Remember him in Memphis he tagged for a time with Rick Morton
i love this Shit... Cornette has a memory like an elephant... nwa territory history is like a godfather movie....
I get really high and listen to these , I always forget the ad at the end so I’m just confused about Jim ranting about something weirdly specific like magic spoon
Artwork is fire!!!!
These are the segments I could listen to for an hour. I love the territory stuff.
Could Lou have been mad at Buddy because Buddy walked into Lou's hometown and outdrew him? Can exactly say that? Have to come up with something.
We need a clip of Cornette talking about 80s wwf and WrestleMania 3
Email him a question about it.
He's commented on it before, if I remember right he liked it for the "attraction" but as an actual product he wouldn't put it above many of the starrcades.
@@Cruising_On_Lake_Havasoma How do you send an email to the podcast?
@@omarhosam8880 He says it at the beginning of every episode. I forget what the email is off hand. They have a Twatter account too.
On June 21, 1981 in Atlanta GA Dusty Rhodes scored a controversial victory over Harley Race to steal the NWA World Heavyweight Title for the second time. This began an 88 day title reign of terror which saw Rhodes do anything and everything underhanded and unsportsman-like to illegally retain the title. All of a sudden top contenders like Tommy Rich and Mr. Wrestling 2 could no longer get Championship matches. At least in the CWF a top contender, the Assassin, came forward. Dusty Rhodes faced the Assassin on August 11, 1981 when the Assassin defeated Dusty Rhodes by DQ. On August 12, 1981 in Miami the Assassin again defeated Dusty Rhodes by DQ. On the next night in Jacksonville Dusty Rhodes and the Assassin fought to a Double DQ. Do you notice a pattern here? That's right Dusty Rhodes got himself disqualified over and over again to retain the title. And the corrupt CWF and NWA protected their so-called "champion." It should be noted that the NWA and GCW waived the DQ rule for the June 21, 1981 match in Atlanta where Rhodes stole the title from Harley Race. But as soon as Rhodes stole the title the DQ rule was put back in place. On August 16, 1981 Rhodes ran away from the Assassin and the match ended in a double count out. Rhodes kept on running all the way out of Florida. It wasn't until the end of August that Rhodes worked up the courage to return to Florida. The Rhodes championship reign of terror finally ended on September 17, 1981 in Kansas City, KS when Ric Flair, a better man, won the NWA World Heavyweight Championship fair and square, without controversy.
I wonder if this was because Harley didn't want to put Flair over.
Exactly as I remember it.
Nice cut and paste job.
@@johngallagher72Harley didn't seem to have a problem with Flair at the first starrcade
Starkville Charlie is the man! MY FB BUDDY AND JIM YOUR THE BEST BROTHER
That's the longest money I've ever seen. 💸
When will Tony Khan try to bring in the NWA World Title to AEW to Crown yet another New Champion and Add to their Plethora of Belts?!….
When he throws enough of his daddy's money at Billy Pumpkin to walk away?
@@stevegyles3190 But Billy anit gonna go out like that. even though TK could buy the Alliance just like that.(he brought the very troublesome ROH,so come on)
@@Filmation77 Billy is smart enough not to bleed money though. If his shows can't draw enough to pay the talent, he'll shut down. Everyone has a magic number.
Pretty simple.. if you don't like... don't watch.. stop being a keyboard warrior 🙄
@@stevegyles3190 but remember he shut down before during the first wave of the pandemic,and a lot of his NWA talent were loyal to him to their credit,they even helped with Billy C's "Carnyland" concept (remember that) and I actually liked the IDEA of it. Even Eli Drake/L.A. Knight/whatever hes called on Smackdown now, stayed as long as he could,for NO Money, until NXT came calling.i think he'll only give up the NWA if it doesn't INSPIRE him anymore. And Billy's a real fan he was even president of Impact until Dixie Carter, pretty much swindled Him out of a few million
That Belt is The most beautiful 🤩
Mentioning Rock in the same breath with Hogan and Flair is ridiculous.
Bruno was a class act.
I remember nwa did that invasion angle in 98 with Jim cornette. It was great until they came up with the new midnight express. Who were Bob Holly and Bart Gunn. Great wrestler's but the tag team was so silly and they deserved better.
Awesome Shoot Today Jim!!😎🐐🐐
I fell in Chicago
Harley Race was the best NWA champion. I got to see Brisco, Dory, Nick Bockwinkle, Sammartino etc. during their numerous Australian tours in the mid 1960s thru to the mid 70s. Harley put over local champion, Ron Miller, in 1977, then wrestled 2 great (not boring) title matches with Miller. Brisco was boring. Funk wasn't much better. Sammartino was so predictable. In my opinion, the best wrestler I ever saw was Ray Stevens, who should have been WWWF or NWA champion.
Jim Cornette is the best goddamn pitchman. I'm ready to buy a car from him, and I don't even need one.
So uhh, last night was something lol
There is a name that has not been spoken of in a long time. I like the guy too and got to see him in action and I believe my mother and her friend got to eat breakfast with him and some of the other guys Like Bruno, Andrae the giant, Haystack, Cheif Jay strong bow, those are the guys I remember as a kid just being able to hang out with at these events in Worchester mass I believe it was during Vince's father days.
Was she a ring rat????
Funk Sr was a Rascally ring villian
Jr was the skilled ring technician but he could be villainous as needed
Terry Funk acts just like his Dad
3:23
"I've hung and I've bung" - Hulk Hogan
Fuck ima have to get some Magic spoon they must be doin something right half the YT channels watch plugged them 🥣
Peanut butter is excellent!
@@travismcdonald6576 Can never go wrong with peanut butter.
I looked it up. Too expensive for me.
@@maitreyas.4902 It is pricey.
Overpriced.
Do you like nature?
Do you like boys?
About to listen to Jim's reaction to Roe vs Wade
Roe had a foot on the ropes!
I’m sure he will blame trump
@@josephcolella3107 And it would be well placed. He appointed the pieces of shit to the SCOTUS.
@@josephcolella3107 IT IS LOL YOU DIDNT SEE THE “WHITE LIFE” COMMENT? LOL IT ALL STEMS FROM HIM AND HIS RACIST BELIEFS
@@josephcolella3107 lol yeah, orange man bad.
What about the time hulk Hogan said he could pin anyone 1 2 3 in the locker room as long as it was in the 🛏️ bedroom. Yeah good times. 🍖 It was raining 🌧️ men . That was the forecast when they were together I guess 🤔. It was the WWF at the time in talking about
Hogan wasn't in the NWA for any length of time before going to the AWA and then to the WWF.
@@maxxdahl6062 Hogan was briefly NWA World Champion.
If you count Fujinami, you gotta count Hogan too.
@@danielburger1775 No one counts that, not even the NWA.
@@maxxdahl6062 And the point is, using the exact same reasoning, nobody should count Fujinami either.
What next, recognizing Sid from Havoc 90?
@@danielburger1775 If the NWA doesn't count it. Why should anyone else? That's like saying Carpentier was a legitimate NWA champion too. When no one but maybe 2 promoters recognized it.
First
CONGRATULATIONS... for being 1st you win.... SWEET FUCK ALL....had you been 2nd or 3rd you would have won.... NOT A DAMN THING
Nobody gives a fuck.
Of course Cornette is somewhat bias to Thesz as NWA champ. Although I am partial to NWA and that style of wrestling, as opposed to the garbage McMahon Sr. promoted, I wonder if Thesz, at 50, could have beaten a 30 years old Sammartino if it came to a shoot regardless of his extensive shoot background and training. FJB!
In 1966 Lou Thesz is 50 years old, Bruno Sammartino is 31. Thesz is a fantastic wrestler, that short arm scissors take down was a predictable but indefensible move. He was a talented mat man. However forcefully taking on a young super strong man would have been impossible as a shoot. Sammartino would have wiped the mat with him. Look at Sammartino vs Giant Baba in this time period, he could grapple. Don’t think that by watching Sammartino’s grudge matches in the 70s, that’s all there was to him. Some say Buddy Rogers was a better wrestler than Sammartino. That he was, but he couldn’t out power him. Take a look at a young Bruno Sammartino man handling Buddy before the historic title change. ua-cam.com/video/4nkUFI86bnY/v-deo.html
The best promoter besides Vince Mcmahon was Jack Tunney out of Toronto.
Graham
And look what happened to him later.
@@lewissmith3896 FAX
Ric Flair always spoke very fondly of Frank and Jack Tunney as well as Eddie Graham.🤔🎤🐴💎🇨🇦🍊🌊☀️🌴🤼♂️B.W.
Try again