Hey. I have Carborundum No. 102. I tried to sharpen a razor with it. Using an optical microscope at 80x magnification, I observed multiple chips the size of half the thickness of a woman's hair. I saw exactly the same picture when using Soviet barber hones for razors based on electrocorundum of 15 and 10 microns. In addition, they are very slow compared to modern synthetic stones. Especially from Naniwa Chosera. I came across a comment by a Soviet barber who claimed that they had never used electrocorundum-based stones for rough sharpening razors. I suppose it was the same in Western countries. Carborundum and Electrocorundum are approximately the same. In work, these stones are also very similar.
The Carborundum 102 was supposed to be used as a touch up stone and it needs to be loaded with a grease, or lubricant. At this point in history those stones must be recharged. When set up correctly, the work very quickly. Carborundum hones are Silicon Carbide, different than Corundum (Alox) chemically, and crystalline structure wise too. I know for sure there were corundum based razor hones made in the USA, fairly certain that it was natural corundum though.
Really great video Keith. I love the contrast of that super old steel and the hot red Alfa Romeo scales. And the scales are a period-correct shape. Really fun stuff Keith.
Thank you for watching and commenting Jeffrey, I agree, the contrast makes it 'pop', very thin stuff too, 1/32" - make for a nice light set of slabs for a short lil' demon blade. Happy Honing!
From one honer to another... I am also not a huge fan of Carborundum, but I also recently revisted my pre conceptions about them. Highly interesting video Keith. Cheers, Adam Agnello
Breath of fresh air a new vid ty Keith a lot of guys would walk past that stone but there's something to be said bout a vintage stone you just never know what its capable of doing this is what sets you apart from the herd. You put the time and effort I always say curious minds often get rewarded cheers
Awesome video and discussion. Always enjoy looking at the old Sheffield's wear patterns and grit markings, sort of a csi what the previous owner had available at the time and where in the u.s. or the world that particular razor had traveled through. We could assume the owner wanted a sharp blade and had at least above average skill level due to the abundance of necessity of the times, but what he had available while on the trail, ship or train for weeks at a time. That's were my curiosity really opens up that rabbit hole, stones that hadn't been lapped, whale oil lamps for lighting, one stone kits. A guys shave with his trusty Sheffield before showing up in town, then the razor sat in a pack for a hundred years. The history of a tarnished blade! What will our last blades say in a hundred years :)
Watched again and see you used a 140 Atoma to flatten the hone surface. And that this left the surface with what I call more "tooth" than usual. This would account for the speed in cutting and after a while as the surface is burnished during honing, it's not so toothy any more. That would account for the polished bevel set. I see also in your other videos you like to leave the surface of any stone/hone not very well polished, but leaving it at a worn out 140 is rare for you, I think. I am going to try this myself to see how it works. I lap stones to a mirror polish and this probably is not as helpful as I think it is. I'll have to see. Thanks for the vid. So much info.
@@larrymc4373 It's not rare for me to do so, me showing it on video is not that common though Remember, I hone every day so there's a lot going on that people never see. I leave some stones with the 140x surface regularly. But yes, leaving the surface a little grittier will add speed to this stone. Long ago it was common practice to surface barber hones with coarse emory paper on one side, and a finer paper on the other. Same principal. I've always found that lapping to a mirror polish on hones is usually counterproductive and often problematic.
I know I’m late to the party this was 3 years ago! 😮 are there any barber hones that consistently give good results still? These are new to me so forgive me for being a total newbie in the conversation.
Yeah, it's been a minute since this was posted.Your topic is a totally different subject that what the video is about though, and I like to keep the comments/conversations focused on topic. that said, you'll find that opinions on b-hones vary but you almost never read posts where people rely on them exclusively or even regularly.
@@KeithVJohnson1 thank you Keith! Yeah sorry about that, they look like fun stones, I like videos like this where you explore vintage stones like this. I also saw your video about “honing in the 1800” I believe it was called and that was also very interesting. Anyways Keith have a good Sunday.
always happy to see a new video from you. Would you ever consider doing videos on the valve amp and guitar stuff you do? I think you mentioned before that you also build amps and the like and it'd be really cool to hear your expertise in that area.
I barely have time to do these honing vids, can't possibly get into taping exploits in another discipline .Thank you for watching and commenting! Happy Honing!
Love your videos man, Learned a LOT from watching you but "his lip fuz will wipe off with a napkin" OMG I'm crying from laughing you are the cats pajamas!
wow nice to see you K.J. and very nice video. pushing the envelope is needed some time and videos like yours make me less chicken. last picture was impressive the fine edge and gruesome chips remove. Wish you fine. thank you.
This was an interesting video/experiment Keith. I saw a cheap 118S Razor Hone in very good condition after I watched this video, so I decided to pick it up for shits and giggles. I know it's different then the 103, but thought it would be interesting to check out. I already have a nice old 8" Pike Swaty and a smaller Apart Barbers hone, so the 118S will make a nice addition to my small collection. I also checked out your write-up on the Naniwa Fuji 8K. Do you still feel the same way about that stone, i.e., has Naniwa kept up the quality since you last tested it? Thanks man.
The 118s is an 'unfilled' stone - to use it at full capability it has to be soaked in a lubricant before use .The old instructions suggest putting it in a pot of heated vaseline until it stops soaking in the petroleum jelly. Without doing that, the stone will be pretty coarse and wear quickly. The Nani Fuji is probably the finest 8k out there but I prefer Jyunpaku.for the tastier feedback. Naniwa had issues with Super Stones and Chosera Pro stones - it seems the problems with the Supers are still ongoing. I am not certain about the Pros. I don't believe the Gouken series were ever affected but I would proceed with caution with any Nani purchase at this point.
@@KeithVJohnson1 - Yeah, I remember you talking about some Naniwa stones cracking on people (not you personally, but other users), though I think that's limited to their splash and go stones, but I imagine most of the stones they make now are splash and go. Buyer beware I guess. I've never heard of Jyunpaku stones before, did you do a video or a write-up on them? The 118S just arrived in the mail a few minutes ago. The packaging looks fairly modern, similar to the size of a pack of cigarettes, it's really interesting. You lift the top of the box off to remove the hone, I like the way they packaged it. I'd like to nail down the manufacturing date, it looks and feels like it's from the 1950's or 1960's, maybe even a little later then that. It looks like NOS. I don't think it's ever been used before. The stone feels fine to the touch, but there is a slightly abrasive feel to the hone, conditioning it would definitely tone down that slight roughness. I was going to ask you how I should go about conditioning the stone. Is the petroleum jelly the best method, or is there another method that would work just as well? I think the stone is made of silicon carbide, at least that's what it looks like to me. Thanks for the interesting videos, I enjoy them a lot. Some of your one-liners crack me up Keith. I hope you continue making these videos for a long time to come.
hey while we're talking about setting bevels i got a question, could you do a quick video about the 'ideal angle' thing, yknow when people say the bevel should be somewhere between 15 and 17 degrees for the perfect shave? what got me thinking about it is that im making a razor myself for the first time and i used that bevel calculator equation everyone talks about and made a 7/8 razor, about half way through on a whim i decided to compare the dimensions to a parker frame back i bought from you a while back, i was surprised that the spine thickness on the parker was the same as the razor i made but the blade was a lot narrower than mine so i figure the bevel angle is way more obtuse than the 'ideal angle' so i started wondering just how critical that exact angle is, maybe its a lot more forgiving than I've been led to believe. i think you've touched on this subject in some other videos but i thought it'd be interesting to get your thoughts on it if you got a minute anyway thanks for uploading i always look forward to your videos i always learn a lot
Hi, thanks for checking in, watching and commenting too! There is no one single 'perfect bevel' angle. The basic range that people rely on is somewhere between 15 and 17 deg. Problem with the bevel angle calculator is twofold - most people don't measure correctly and there is no way to factor in variations along the geometry; e.g. a smile, or less than parallel spine. But that 15-17 degree range works fine, going under that, many or even most razors won't hold an edge for too long, or at all. Going over that you can feel the blade's cutting efficacy start to fall off and edge retention seems to fall off quick too. Another consideration is that this is not a perfect equation - some steels will hold edges under 15 deg. And some wedges are impossible to get under 19 deg. So we live with what we have. Yet - every single time I actually have been able to reduce the bevel angle on a wedge or similar it has shaved better - to a point. Some Sheffield blades start to lose edge retention faster than others when the angle is being reduced incrementally. So there's that. Several times - I've walked blades up and down the range of angles by grinding and then replacing the dimension with tape. As a general rule of thumb; thinner angles shave better. Minimal Edge Width is a major determining factor in overall sharpness and thinner bevel angles create a thinner edge width. At the end of the day, there has to be a balance or synchronicity between the steel's capabilities due to make-up, HT&T, etc, the actual angle across the entire blade, the efficiency and credibility of the sharpening process, etc.
@@KeithVJohnson1 thanks a lot! i know there's going to be plenty of variation in my blade's geometry, this is the first time I've tried to grind bevels that precise and its a wedge on top of that, sounds like grinding that bevel on the hones is going to get interesting when i finally get to it
Hey Keith, I've just cleaned out my father's stuff and found a carbourandom, all black and needs cleaning. What did you let it soak in before cleaning? Thanks for sharing all the great content! Best Mikael
Honestly don't remember what I did to that one. But - keep in mind that soaking a stone means some stuff comes out but other stuff soaks in deeper. And, if you use something like oven cleaner, then you have to re-soak and neutralize the sodium hydroxide. If you don't need that level of aggressive action I'd say just try to wash it off with soap/water. You might need a stiff nylon brush to clear the gunk off. Lapping removes most of the issue anyway usually. But these things will wear a diamond plate so go easy.
I have an old shefield i am absolutely butchering lol been workin on it for a couple hours and the geometry is still trash, it rolls towards the front and heel on one side
It never fails, when I watch any of your YT content, I always learn something new.
Hey. I have Carborundum No. 102. I tried to sharpen a razor with it. Using an optical microscope at 80x magnification, I observed multiple chips the size of half the thickness of a woman's hair. I saw exactly the same picture when using Soviet barber hones for razors based on electrocorundum of 15 and 10 microns. In addition, they are very slow compared to modern synthetic stones. Especially from Naniwa Chosera. I came across a comment by a Soviet barber who claimed that they had never used electrocorundum-based stones for rough sharpening razors. I suppose it was the same in Western countries. Carborundum and Electrocorundum are approximately the same. In work, these stones are also very similar.
The Carborundum 102 was supposed to be used as a touch up stone and it needs to be loaded with a grease, or lubricant. At this point in history those stones must be recharged. When set up correctly, the work very quickly. Carborundum hones are Silicon Carbide, different than Corundum (Alox) chemically, and crystalline structure wise too. I know for sure there were corundum based razor hones made in the USA, fairly certain that it was natural corundum though.
Really great video Keith. I love the contrast of that super old steel and the hot red Alfa Romeo scales. And the scales are a period-correct shape. Really fun stuff Keith.
Thank you for watching and commenting Jeffrey, I agree, the contrast makes it 'pop', very thin stuff too, 1/32" - make for a nice light set of slabs for a short lil' demon blade. Happy Honing!
From one honer to another... I am also not a huge fan of Carborundum, but I also recently revisted my pre conceptions about them. Highly interesting video Keith.
Cheers,
Adam Agnello
Breath of fresh air a new vid ty Keith a lot of guys would walk past that stone but there's something to be said bout a vintage stone you just never know what its capable of doing this is what sets you apart from the herd. You put the time and effort I always say curious minds often get rewarded cheers
Thank you Johnny, always good to see you in the comments, Happy Honing!
Awesome job, Keith. Thanks for the video!
You're welcome Chris, and thank you for watching and commenting!
Awesome video and discussion. Always enjoy looking at the old Sheffield's wear patterns and grit markings, sort of a csi what the previous owner had available at the time and where in the u.s. or the world that particular razor had traveled through. We could assume the owner wanted a sharp blade and had at least above average skill level due to the abundance of necessity of the times, but what he had available while on the trail, ship or train for weeks at a time. That's were my curiosity really opens up that rabbit hole, stones that hadn't been lapped, whale oil lamps for lighting, one stone kits. A guys shave with his trusty Sheffield before showing up in town, then the razor sat in a pack for a hundred years. The history of a tarnished blade! What will our last blades say in a hundred years :)
Hi James, great points, I do always think about where my razors have been and what they have heard...
I always enjoy the information you provide thank you
Thank you Gary, happy honing!
You gotta love those wonky bevels.
Immediate swarf buildup and seems fast but leaves a polish on the bevel. Cool. Great video.
Thanks for checking out my new Vid Larry - Happy Honing !
Watched again and see you used a 140 Atoma to flatten the hone surface. And that this left the surface with what I call more "tooth" than usual. This would account for the speed in cutting and after a while as the surface is burnished during honing, it's not so toothy any more. That would account for the polished bevel set. I see also in your other videos you like to leave the surface of any stone/hone not very well polished, but leaving it at a worn out 140 is rare for you, I think. I am going to try this myself to see how it works. I lap stones to a mirror polish and this probably is not as helpful as I think it is. I'll have to see. Thanks for the vid. So much info.
@@larrymc4373 It's not rare for me to do so, me showing it on video is not that common though Remember, I hone every day so there's a lot going on that people never see. I leave some stones with the 140x surface regularly. But yes, leaving the surface a little grittier will add speed to this stone. Long ago it was common practice to surface barber hones with coarse emory paper on one side, and a finer paper on the other. Same principal. I've always found that lapping to a mirror polish on hones is usually counterproductive and often problematic.
I know I’m late to the party this was 3 years ago! 😮 are there any barber hones that consistently give good results still? These are new to me so forgive me for being a total newbie in the conversation.
Yeah, it's been a minute since this was posted.Your topic is a totally different subject that what the video is about though, and I like to keep the comments/conversations focused on topic. that said, you'll find that opinions on b-hones vary but you almost never read posts where people rely on them exclusively or even regularly.
@@KeithVJohnson1 thank you Keith! Yeah sorry about that, they look like fun stones, I like videos like this where you explore vintage stones like this. I also saw your video about “honing in the 1800” I believe it was called and that was also very interesting. Anyways Keith have a good Sunday.
I actually think you were creating particle acceleration! Think about it - heh heh!! Steel particles!!
always happy to see a new video from you. Would you ever consider doing videos on the valve amp and guitar stuff you do? I think you mentioned before that you also build amps and the like and it'd be really cool to hear your expertise in that area.
I barely have time to do these honing vids, can't possibly get into taping exploits in another discipline .Thank you for watching and commenting! Happy Honing!
Love your videos man, Learned a LOT from watching you but "his lip fuz will wipe off with a napkin" OMG I'm crying from laughing you are the cats pajamas!
Hey Ray, thank you watching and commenting - Cat's PJs? Wow - ty!
Nice work Keith, Thanks for an interesting watch (I don't mean a Casio...)
You're welcome Julio, and thank you for watching and commenting!
Cool vidéo, I would have thought a carborundum stone would be too coarse to shave off of, that's interesting it could be used as a barber's hone.
The barber hone versions were a bit finer. I have used a tool-type carbo to set bevels before though.
wow nice to see you K.J. and very nice video. pushing the envelope is needed some time and videos like yours make me less chicken. last picture was impressive the fine edge and gruesome chips remove. Wish you fine. thank you.
Thank you Francesco, experimentation is part of the game, get to it ! And Happy Honing!
Salute 🇮🇹 Keith!
Thank You for watching and commenting!
This was an interesting video/experiment Keith. I saw a cheap 118S Razor Hone in very good condition after I watched this video, so I decided to pick it up for shits and giggles. I know it's different then the 103, but thought it would be interesting to check out. I already have a nice old 8" Pike Swaty and a smaller Apart Barbers hone, so the 118S will make a nice addition to my small collection. I also checked out your write-up on the Naniwa Fuji 8K. Do you still feel the same way about that stone, i.e., has Naniwa kept up the quality since you last tested it? Thanks man.
The 118s is an 'unfilled' stone - to use it at full capability it has to be soaked in a lubricant before use .The old instructions suggest putting it in a pot of heated vaseline until it stops soaking in the petroleum jelly. Without doing that, the stone will be pretty coarse and wear quickly. The Nani Fuji is probably the finest 8k out there but I prefer Jyunpaku.for the tastier feedback. Naniwa had issues with Super Stones and Chosera Pro stones - it seems the problems with the Supers are still ongoing. I am not certain about the Pros. I don't believe the Gouken series were ever affected but I would proceed with caution with any Nani purchase at this point.
@@KeithVJohnson1 - Yeah, I remember you talking about some Naniwa stones cracking on people (not you personally, but other users), though I think that's limited to their splash and go stones, but I imagine most of the stones they make now are splash and go. Buyer beware I guess.
I've never heard of Jyunpaku stones before, did you do a video or a write-up on them?
The 118S just arrived in the mail a few minutes ago. The packaging looks fairly modern, similar to the size of a pack of cigarettes, it's really interesting. You lift the top of the box off to remove the hone, I like the way they packaged it.
I'd like to nail down the manufacturing date, it looks and feels like it's from the 1950's or 1960's, maybe even a little later then that. It looks like NOS. I don't think it's ever been used before.
The stone feels fine to the touch, but there is a slightly abrasive feel to the hone, conditioning it would definitely tone down that slight roughness.
I was going to ask you how I should go about conditioning the stone. Is the petroleum jelly the best method, or is there another method that would work just as well? I think the stone is made of silicon carbide, at least that's what it looks like to me.
Thanks for the interesting videos, I enjoy them a lot. Some of your one-liners crack me up Keith. I hope you continue making these videos for a long time to come.
hey while we're talking about setting bevels i got a question, could you do a quick video about the 'ideal angle' thing, yknow when people say the bevel should be somewhere between 15 and 17 degrees for the perfect shave? what got me thinking about it is that im making a razor myself for the first time and i used that bevel calculator equation everyone talks about and made a 7/8 razor, about half way through on a whim i decided to compare the dimensions to a parker frame back i bought from you a while back, i was surprised that the spine thickness on the parker was the same as the razor i made but the blade was a lot narrower than mine so i figure the bevel angle is way more obtuse than the 'ideal angle' so i started wondering just how critical that exact angle is, maybe its a lot more forgiving than I've been led to believe.
i think you've touched on this subject in some other videos but i thought it'd be interesting to get your thoughts on it if you got a minute
anyway thanks for uploading i always look forward to your videos i always learn a lot
Hi, thanks for checking in, watching and commenting too!
There is no one single 'perfect bevel' angle.
The basic range that people rely on is somewhere between 15 and 17 deg. Problem with the bevel angle calculator is twofold - most people don't measure correctly and there is no way to factor in variations along the geometry; e.g. a smile, or less than parallel spine.
But that 15-17 degree range works fine, going under that, many or even most razors won't hold an edge for too long, or at all. Going over that you can feel the blade's cutting efficacy start to fall off and edge retention seems to fall off quick too. Another consideration is that this is not a perfect equation - some steels will hold edges under 15 deg. And some wedges are impossible to get under 19 deg. So we live with what we have.
Yet - every single time I actually have been able to reduce the bevel angle on a wedge or similar it has shaved better - to a point. Some Sheffield blades start to lose edge retention faster than others when the angle is being reduced incrementally. So there's that.
Several times - I've walked blades up and down the range of angles by grinding and then replacing the dimension with tape. As a general rule of thumb; thinner angles shave better. Minimal Edge Width is a major determining factor in overall sharpness and thinner bevel angles create a thinner edge width.
At the end of the day, there has to be a balance or synchronicity between the steel's capabilities due to make-up, HT&T, etc, the actual angle across the entire blade, the efficiency and credibility of the sharpening process, etc.
@@KeithVJohnson1 thanks a lot! i know there's going to be plenty of variation in my blade's geometry, this is the first time I've tried to grind bevels that precise and its a wedge on top of that, sounds like grinding that bevel on the hones is going to get interesting when i finally get to it
@@steelforge08 everything is an experiment, and there is much joy is in the journey.
Hey Keith, I've just cleaned out my father's stuff and found a carbourandom, all black and needs cleaning. What did you let it soak in before cleaning? Thanks for sharing all the great content! Best Mikael
Honestly don't remember what I did to that one. But - keep in mind that soaking a stone means some stuff comes out but other stuff soaks in deeper. And, if you use something like oven cleaner, then you have to re-soak and neutralize the sodium hydroxide. If you don't need that level of aggressive action I'd say just try to wash it off with soap/water. You might need a stiff nylon brush to clear the gunk off. Lapping removes most of the issue anyway usually. But these things will wear a diamond plate so go easy.
@@KeithVJohnson1 thank you Keith, looking forward to try out the Tomo Nagura I bought from you;)
@@Polartrucker Cool ! You're welcome and happy honing!
thats all i got out right now.... oh wait heres five more stones. LMAO.
Thank you for watching and commenting!
Nice video
Thank You for watching and commenting Samuel!
I have an old shefield i am absolutely butchering lol been workin on it for a couple hours and the geometry is still trash, it rolls towards the front and heel on one side
A lot of vintage razors have a lot of wear from use, and many were sorta not perfect to start off with. So they can take a while, sometimes.