Its just amazing, how much valuable info, you can pack into these videos! These are much appreciated, as im just starting to get into honing. Thank you!
Good video... i used to hone exclusively with tape years ago to keep the razors looking nice... now most of the time i don't. I get better feedback without tape while honing. I am not against tape. I use it strategically as needed for some of the reasons you mentioned and some others.
Keith you are a blast to watch. I always feel like I pick up something I can use to improve in my own honing. Your commentary is sometimes hysterical and I've said it before but I love your no BS, call it like you see it approach to things. I'd love to try one of your edges some day.
Always feel like I’m watching Bruce Willis at Nakatomi Tower when I watch your videos :-))) ( meant respectively). And the dry humour Sir is holerious (( 4.25. Didn’t kill dumbo for the scales haaaaaa hahahaha))
If I hone new Dovo or new Boker I don't use tape,but if I hone vintage razor in a good state I use tape simply because I use to preserve the good condition of the spine. Cause the razor is really old and not manufactured any more. Both ways of honing shave great.
Awesome video....I have a Mesa Boogie Blue Angle, nothing sounds like a tube amp...and you used on of my favorite words, 'pontificate' which seems to be an epidemic with people today, everyone is an expert.
Now this is what I needed. You answered every question that I have been curious about. Thanks again Kieth! I was thinking that you use the tapes maybe 3-5 time's in your lifetime on a day certain razor, then you keep up maintenance on touch up's. This is where my mind had gonewith this! Newbie honer here! ; ) Greg B.
Very cool Greg - thank you for watching and commenting! Once you tape, all honing has to be done on tape unless you reset the bevel without tape. If I have a trouble razor, I might set the bevel on tape and then do a fast reset without tape - that helps prevent some spine wear some times.
When you remove the tape, you have to re-set the bevel before proceeding, but it goes fast because you've done most of the heavy grinding. This is only for razors that will need a lot of work initially.
Keith: Another informative session Kieth! I did a lot of honing this weekend myself. I think 10 razors in total, of varying value. Regarding the topic, I use tape often and sometimes I do not. Certainly the examples for tape are valid and I agree with them all. Although I have watched a lot of your videos, I cannot say I've seen them all, I am not sure if you've covered this but what is your personal favorite grind on a razor? I suspect wedge/near wedge based on the collection I've seen. If that's the case I'm curious as to why? Best, Ruds
I'm more into visual/physical balance than grind. I don't usually go for flexy blades but I might if the razor gave me that 'extension of my hand' sensation. Mostly, I find that in larger heavier blades but there have been many hollows, framebacks, etc that made me want to hold them and shave with them.
15:10 its almost like they say something and then its foundation now they are a disciple and think its right unless you have everything like that guy then you really meed to see what works for you. every razor pretty mich has a different blade shape, nobody has the exact same stones, different tape and also. everybody hones slightly different so it makes sense how some people make or more complicated than it needs to. but i think that was the problem with my one razor is that the spine is all jacked up i cant tell if its a semi hollow or uneven spine where or kamisori grind. definitely seems to have different bevel angles. sort of like a deba knife ha. maybe thats to extreme but you get what in saying . maybe more 60-40 in
Also, why is it that Belgian hones and coticules do not have grit numbers assigned to them? Measurements are one thing but do natural hones just not have grit count or hardness levels? I suppose what blade you are honing with would answer which hone to use?
Great questions - almost impossible to answer here though, the topic is quite lengthy. The concept is grit is a tricky one to digest, technically - it's a dimension that doesn't tell you enough about the rest of what you need to know about a stone. It's applied to synthetics but it can be misleading - for example, an 8k Norton is not as as fine as a 8k Naniwa. Then you have PSD charts, different abrasive types, and so on. Naturals are a different beast - while some guys assign grits to different natural hones, I don't and I don't see a need to either. But that's just how I look at things.
To remove grease try smearing olive oil on let it sit then just whipe it off. The oil will solve the grease probably. That's how you remove resin from your outdoor blades.
Tape residue comes off the blade when it's lifted by the tape itself; a solvent isn't needed in this situation. I clear sap off tools with alcohol hand sanitizer.
Ahh - no, the slack in the leather takes care of the angle. Funnily enough though, I although I usually do strop with the tape on when I'm done honing. Not for any particular reason though. Sometimes I'll even shave with the tape on too....it's just one of those things I can't really explain.
Hey Duppy, thank you for watching and commenting. If you can read a schematic and wire a dual humbucker circuit with phase and coil tap switches, then you can build an amp. Study first, study a lot. 375VDC is serious stuff, it can kill, so do all your homework first.
Keith V. Johnson yeah totally! That’s why I haven’t jumped in yet, need to know exactly what I’m doing down to the last capacitor I don’t wanna end up brown bread 💀. 👍
lolz im commenting as i watch and that tape residue. sonce this whole covid thing. there no rubbing alcohol so i just use cheap after shave on my spine or the clean the edge is i have strop paste. or even is use it for residue on my Arkansas. i use after shave on that too works lime a charm
Yup - there's lots of ways to remove tape residue, AS is one, nail polish remover, turpentine, lighter fluid, mineral spirits, etc. It always comes off when I just use the tape though. Maybe cheap tape is gummier but 3M tape picks the glue right up off the metal without issue. Thank you for watching and commenting!
Hey Keith, love your videos. I bought my 2nd ''need to work on'' razor. The first one i had a bad experience with (heavy hone wear, twisted spine...) was able to make it sharp, couldn't shave with it comfortably. So here i am with my 2nd one and it's looking good. I noticed it had a weird spine thickness to blade width ratio. Calculated the bevel angle and came to 8.67 degree. Would you recommend using multiple layers of tape and try to get it to at least 13?
What I would suggest is getting a razor that isn't jacked up, honing on multiple layers of tape adds problems to the mix. Until you know what you are doing, you want to work with blades that aren't so problematic. That angle measurement is very low. Did you calculate the bevel's angle based on the width of the blade from the apex of the edge to the uppermost line of spinewear or did you measure from the apex of the edge to the top of the spine?
@@KeithVJohnson1 Used my micrometer on the tangent (contact point) on the spine. For both the thickness and width. Gave me the hypothenus and opposite dimension of the angle (flat .1inch thickness (.2/2) and .657 hyp) Very thin spine for the width. With almost no hone wear. And yes Alfred field co wasn't too known for his razors. Razor is in good shape otherwise that why i gave it a go. Deffinitely gonna check that next ones.
If your spine is .2"wide, then that is 5.08 mm. For that width to be a part of geometry creating a bevel angle of 8.67˚ you would need a blade width of over 30 mm. Is it possible that you have calculated angle per side, instead of the inclusive angle? Your .657 Hypotenuse suggest that is the case.
copy paste this link into your browser, it will auto download a bevel angle calculator. www.coticule.be/wedges.html?file=tl_files/barts_pics/Bevel_angle_calculation.xls
@@KeithVJohnson1 See, that's why i ask questions. I assumed the angle was calculated per side (so inclusive should be 26 for a 13 per side) Thanks for clarifying that for a newbie. Much apreciated.
Hey Keith, I love your channel brother , I know that you can't be absolutely correct on every everything, but I sure think you are , the bad thing about that is , when someone try to tell me something about this world of razors, I say ,Keith don't do it like that . lol . But for real , I love your channel, I was like one of your earliest subscribers, I believe I was like in the mid 40s . But anyways, I need to ask you something, and i know this is gonna kinda make me sound kinda ignore , BUT nevertheless, I need to ask you anyway . When you hone with tape, do you go ahead and strop it with the tape still on it ? Thanks bro
Hi, thank you for your support, the nice comment and kind words too; it's always good to read stuff like that. Always remember - there are many paths to the top of the mountain..... about tape, I will leave tape on for stropping initially sometimes but not because I need to, more like I'm being lazy. If you take the tape off after honing, the natural curve in the strop, along with the 'give' in the leather or material, will make up for the difference in the bevel's angle.
I'm the odd ball. I usually use tape. For me, I get better feedback from the edge. Use it mainly out of habit.....it's how I started. End of the day, who cares? Do what works for you , rub some steel on a stone, shave, and be happy.
I thought my stone had something catching the edge till I put a piece of tape. It turns out it was something on the spine catching the edge of the stone not the edge of the razor. I had been polishing the stone for days trying to get it smooth till I figured out it was the razor spine lol
Hi there Keith, Nice vídeo, I’d like to add a situation happened to me, I bought a razor that the vendor prepared the blade with tape, now I’m at the point to regain the edge after 1,5 months shaving. The question is, is that much a of a difference to do it with or without taping the spine or I need resetting the bevel? Thanks in advance!!!
Hello, thank you for watching and commenting. If the razor was honed on tape initially, then it has to be honed on tape continually. The only way to avoid using tape to hone that blade is by resetting the bevel without tape. The reset usually goes pretty quickly if the existing geometry is still in good condition. Happy Honing!
I got a Brian brown razor. He told me he honed it with tape. I don’t like to use tape. Do you think it will mess the bevel up if I start honing it without tape when I get it or should I continue using tape like he did ?
If you want to hone that razor without tape, then you'll have to reset the bevel's angle without tape. It's not a big deal really - one piece of tape usually creates about a 1˚ difference. Generally speaking, that small of a variance can be honed out pretty quickly/easily. You shouldn't have to hone it for a good long while though; at first, it'll just need a touch up. At that point, you might consider whether or not you want to do a bevel reset just so you can do a touchup without tape.
Brian might have some feedback for you on this - he knows his razors, grinds and steel better than anyone. I would highly suggest emailing him and asking him what he thinks. But - typically, to use tape or not is just a personal choice; sorta like whether or not you want chunky or creamy peanut butter. There is not right or wrong here, there is only you and your razor and how you want to work with it. Whichever way you choose will be fine.
I really love your no-nonsense approach and learned quite a bit from this video. Thank´s a lot!
Awesome, thank you for watching and commenting too! Happy Honing!
Its just amazing, how much valuable info, you can pack into these videos! These are much appreciated, as im just starting to get into honing. Thank you!
Thank you for watching and commenting, it's always good to hear when someone's learning and enjoying the process.
One of the best tape-or-no-tape explanations. Nice job Keith.
Thanks James!
Good video... i used to hone exclusively with tape years ago to keep the razors looking nice... now most of the time i don't. I get better feedback without tape while honing. I am not against tape. I use it strategically as needed for some of the reasons you mentioned and some others.
Happy Honing!
that stone sounds frigging amazing. yea the blogs sound like fun im glad im not on them.
Thank you for watching and commenting! Happy Honing!
You're right Keith, who would've thought a silly little piece of tape could cause so much controversy? Great vid, thanks for giving us your thoughts.
Happy Honing!
Keith you are a blast to watch. I always feel like I pick up something I can use to improve in my own honing. Your commentary is sometimes hysterical and I've said it before but I love your no BS, call it like you see it approach to things. I'd love to try one of your edges some day.
Thanks for the great comment Greg - much appreciated.
Always feel like I’m watching Bruce Willis at Nakatomi Tower when I watch your videos :-))) ( meant respectively). And the dry humour Sir is holerious (( 4.25. Didn’t kill dumbo for the scales haaaaaa hahahaha))
Thank you for watching and the kind words too!
“It’s just tape...and this is just a razor.”
Our Gamma is truly a straight razor master.
There is no spoon!!!!
Matrix - great flick
If I hone new Dovo or new Boker I don't use tape,but if I hone vintage razor in a good state I use tape simply because I use to preserve the good condition of the spine. Cause the razor is really old and not manufactured any more. Both ways of honing shave great.
dunno only reason I can see is not screwing up the spine polish but just clear tape can cover that
No angst perceived. You exude calm, which is a welcome and necessary accompaniment to straight shaving.
Thank you - and thank you for watching too!
Great video Keith , you tell it like you see it , I like that .
Happy Honing!
Awesome video....I have a Mesa Boogie Blue Angle, nothing sounds like a tube amp...and you used on of my favorite words, 'pontificate' which seems to be an epidemic with people today, everyone is an expert.
*one of
*Blue Angel
Very cool and thank you. Mesa gear is good stuff for sure.
this guy is funny in a serious way
Thanks for watching Rod!
Now this is what I needed. You answered every question that I have been curious about. Thanks again Kieth! I was thinking that you use the tapes maybe 3-5 time's in your lifetime on a day certain razor, then you keep up maintenance on touch up's.
This is where my mind had gonewith this! Newbie honer here! ; ) Greg B.
Very cool Greg - thank you for watching and commenting! Once you tape, all honing has to be done on tape unless you reset the bevel without tape. If I have a trouble razor, I might set the bevel on tape and then do a fast reset without tape - that helps prevent some spine wear some times.
@@KeithVJohnson1 tape on the bevel set to take off more metal... then off. I see!
When you remove the tape, you have to re-set the bevel before proceeding, but it goes fast because you've done most of the heavy grinding. This is only for razors that will need a lot of work initially.
Keith:
Another informative session Kieth! I did a lot of honing this weekend myself. I think 10 razors in total, of varying value.
Regarding the topic, I use tape often and sometimes I do not. Certainly the examples for tape are valid and I agree with them all.
Although I have watched a lot of your videos, I cannot say I've seen them all, I am not sure if you've covered this but what is your personal favorite grind on a razor? I suspect wedge/near wedge based on the collection I've seen. If that's the case I'm curious as to why?
Best,
Ruds
I'm more into visual/physical balance than grind. I don't usually go for flexy blades but I might if the razor gave me that 'extension of my hand' sensation. Mostly, I find that in larger heavier blades but there have been many hollows, framebacks, etc that made me want to hold them and shave with them.
Keith V. Johnson cool! I prefer flexy blades so far on my journey.
Useful, informative and helpful, thank you!
You are very welcome and thank you very much!
15:10 its almost like they say something and then its foundation now they are a disciple and think its right unless you have everything like that guy then you really meed to see what works for you. every razor pretty mich has a different blade shape, nobody has the exact same stones, different tape and also. everybody hones slightly different so it makes sense how some people make or more complicated than it needs to.
but i think that was the problem with my one razor is that the spine is all jacked up i cant tell if its a semi hollow or uneven spine where or kamisori grind. definitely seems to have different bevel angles. sort of like a deba knife ha. maybe thats to extreme but you get what in saying . maybe more 60-40 in
That's the effect of the expertitis virus. Or the Pied Piper complex. Maybe both. Lol....
Also, why is it that Belgian hones and coticules do not have grit numbers assigned to them? Measurements are one thing but do natural hones just not have grit count or hardness levels? I suppose what blade you are honing with would answer which hone to use?
Great questions - almost impossible to answer here though, the topic is quite lengthy. The concept is grit is a tricky one to digest, technically - it's a dimension that doesn't tell you enough about the rest of what you need to know about a stone. It's applied to synthetics but it can be misleading - for example, an 8k Norton is not as as fine as a 8k Naniwa. Then you have PSD charts, different abrasive types, and so on. Naturals are a different beast - while some guys assign grits to different natural hones, I don't and I don't see a need to either. But that's just how I look at things.
To remove grease try smearing olive oil on let it sit then just whipe it off.
The oil will solve the grease probably.
That's how you remove resin from your outdoor blades.
Are you teferring to the part about removing tape residue?
Keith V. Johnson jeah I did mean residue...
Tape residue comes off the blade when it's lifted by the tape itself; a solvent isn't needed in this situation. I clear sap off tools with alcohol hand sanitizer.
Nothing wrong with using tape. I don't think your beard cares whether or not your blade was taped😜
sorry do you need to use tape when you strop if you used tape to hone
Ahh - no, the slack in the leather takes care of the angle. Funnily enough though, I although I usually do strop with the tape on when I'm done honing. Not for any particular reason though. Sometimes I'll even shave with the tape on too....it's just one of those things I can't really explain.
yes tube amps are the shit.
Damn you should do some videos on tube amps I love working on and wiring guitars and have always wanted to build my own valve amp! 🤘 ps Awesome vid
Hey Duppy, thank you for watching and commenting. If you can read a schematic and wire a dual humbucker circuit with phase and coil tap switches, then you can build an amp. Study first, study a lot. 375VDC is serious stuff, it can kill, so do all your homework first.
Keith V. Johnson yeah totally! That’s why I haven’t jumped in yet, need to know exactly what I’m doing down to the last capacitor I don’t wanna end up brown bread 💀. 👍
thats some big nasty blades there ;) . me likey. and i like the idea of a hardly hollow, should be a sturdy edge .
lolz im commenting as i watch and that tape residue. sonce this whole covid thing. there no rubbing alcohol so i just use cheap after shave on my spine or the clean the edge is i have strop paste. or even is use it for residue on my Arkansas. i use after shave on that too works lime a charm
Yup - there's lots of ways to remove tape residue, AS is one, nail polish remover, turpentine, lighter fluid, mineral spirits, etc. It always comes off when I just use the tape though. Maybe cheap tape is gummier but 3M tape picks the glue right up off the metal without issue. Thank you for watching and commenting!
Were can I get that blood stained finishing stone ?
Blood spot Kiita are rare and they do not show up for sale often.
Hey Keith, love your videos. I bought my 2nd ''need to work on'' razor. The first one i had a bad experience with (heavy hone wear, twisted spine...) was able to make it sharp, couldn't shave with it comfortably. So here i am with my 2nd one and it's looking good. I noticed it had a weird spine thickness to blade width ratio. Calculated the bevel angle and came to 8.67 degree. Would you recommend using multiple layers of tape and try to get it to at least 13?
What I would suggest is getting a razor that isn't jacked up, honing on multiple layers of tape adds problems to the mix. Until you know what you are doing, you want to work with blades that aren't so problematic.
That angle measurement is very low. Did you calculate the bevel's angle based on the width of the blade from the apex of the edge to the uppermost line of spinewear or did you measure from the apex of the edge to the top of the spine?
@@KeithVJohnson1 Used my micrometer on the tangent (contact point) on the spine. For both the thickness and width. Gave me the hypothenus and opposite dimension of the angle (flat .1inch thickness (.2/2) and .657 hyp) Very thin spine for the width. With almost no hone wear.
And yes Alfred field co wasn't too known for his razors. Razor is in good shape otherwise that why i gave it a go. Deffinitely gonna check that next ones.
If your spine is .2"wide, then that is 5.08 mm. For that width to be a part of geometry creating a bevel angle of 8.67˚ you would need a blade width of over 30 mm. Is it possible that you have calculated angle per side, instead of the inclusive angle? Your .657 Hypotenuse suggest that is the case.
copy paste this link into your browser, it will auto download a bevel angle calculator. www.coticule.be/wedges.html?file=tl_files/barts_pics/Bevel_angle_calculation.xls
@@KeithVJohnson1 See, that's why i ask questions. I assumed the angle was calculated per side (so inclusive should be 26 for a 13 per side) Thanks for clarifying that for a newbie. Much apreciated.
Hey Keith, I love your channel brother , I know that you can't be absolutely correct on every everything, but I sure think you are , the bad thing about that is , when someone try to tell me something about this world of razors, I say ,Keith don't do it like that . lol . But for real , I love your channel, I was like one of your earliest subscribers, I believe I was like in the mid 40s . But anyways, I need to ask you something, and i know this is gonna kinda make me sound kinda ignore , BUT nevertheless, I need to ask you anyway . When you hone with tape, do you go ahead and strop it with the tape still on it ? Thanks bro
Hi, thank you for your support, the nice comment and kind words too; it's always good to read stuff like that. Always remember - there are many paths to the top of the mountain..... about tape, I will leave tape on for stropping initially sometimes but not because I need to, more like I'm being lazy. If you take the tape off after honing, the natural curve in the strop, along with the 'give' in the leather or material, will make up for the difference in the bevel's angle.
Ok , thanks bro , thats exactly what I was needing to know . Thank you so much for getting back to me.
You're very welcome!
Smooth stone... damn.
I'm the odd ball. I usually use tape. For me, I get better feedback from the edge. Use it mainly out of habit.....it's how I started. End of the day, who cares? Do what works for you , rub some steel on a stone, shave, and be happy.
I thought my stone had something catching the edge till I put a piece of tape. It turns out it was something on the spine catching the edge of the stone not the edge of the razor. I had been polishing the stone for days trying to get it smooth till I figured out it was the razor spine lol
Happy Honing!
Hi there Keith,
Nice vídeo, I’d like to add a situation happened to me, I bought a razor that the vendor prepared the blade with tape, now I’m at the point to regain the edge after 1,5 months shaving. The question is, is that much a of a difference to do it with or without taping the spine or I need resetting the bevel? Thanks in advance!!!
Hello, thank you for watching and commenting. If the razor was honed on tape initially, then it has to be honed on tape continually. The only way to avoid using tape to hone that blade is by resetting the bevel without tape. The reset usually goes pretty quickly if the existing geometry is still in good condition. Happy Honing!
I got a Brian brown razor. He told me he honed it with tape. I don’t like to use tape. Do you think it will mess the bevel up if I start honing it without tape when I get it or should I continue using tape like he did ?
If you want to hone that razor without tape, then you'll have to reset the bevel's angle without tape. It's not a big deal really - one piece of tape usually creates about a 1˚ difference. Generally speaking, that small of a variance can be honed out pretty quickly/easily.
You shouldn't have to hone it for a good long while though; at first, it'll just need a touch up. At that point, you might consider whether or not you want to do a bevel reset just so you can do a touchup without tape.
Keith V. Johnson so do you think I should just continue using tape ?
Brian might have some feedback for you on this - he knows his razors, grinds and steel better than anyone. I would highly suggest emailing him and asking him what he thinks.
But - typically, to use tape or not is just a personal choice; sorta like whether or not you want chunky or creamy peanut butter. There is not right or wrong here, there is only you and your razor and how you want to work with it. Whichever way you choose will be fine.
Bevel angle calculator????? Please make my life with wedges a tad easier!
www.coticule.be/wedges.html?file=tl_files/barts_pics/Bevel_angle_calculation.xls
Keith V. Johnson thank you bud. Always a helpful friend!
Keith V. Johnson great tool from the good days of coticule.be
do you need to stropwould take if you home with tape
Could you rephrase that please? I'm not sure what you are asking exactly.
you build your own amps? me too. go figure.
I've been out of that obsession for a short while but yeah... audio and guitar amps.
Lol