Are You Overwhelmed By Army List Building?
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- Опубліковано 7 вер 2024
- Coming up with your army list for a game system, especially when you're new to wargaming, has been described as "overwhelming" - but it doesn't need to be. Uncle Atom has some simple guidelines for you to follow.
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"Smashing landraiders together on the table"- is that what the kids are calling it these days?
i thought it was called "two guys throw money at each other
At least he didn't say Baneblades...That'd be "swordfighting."
I'm the complete opposite to be honest, the list building is one of my favorite parts of the game! I love theorycrafting new lists and ideas!...... (only to buy the minis and never paint them! X_x)
I feel like this is fairly common, and it's why commission artists are a thing.
I just buy the models I think look cool for the army I play and then plan a list later and add models. Works for me.
Being limited on resources, I make myself make some lists that are at least moderately competitive. But having originally been a miniature collector/painter, after collecting the minis for my list I go back & get the figures I really like that aren't considered that competitive.
word, and with my three army's i did the same, i bought a starter box, and maybe 1-2 other's i thought to be cool ( i knew the org chart place so i could play the) but tldr i didnt care really about list building, i bought some models and painted them one by one, one squad at a time, never assemble all and i was done when i was done - to me it never matters to get something done quick, the way to the goal is what makes the hobby a enjoyfull expirience - but i dont play compeditively - i play for fun and i want to see stuff explode - i dont really care on which side the explosion is :-D
Yup, I’m more into it for the craft personally and the game incidentally.
That can *really* backfire. Better to research what PLAYSTYLE you like, and pick models that play that way, that you ALSO think look cool!
Seems like a really bad way to go about it. I'd rather not waste money on models I'm never gonna use given they're already way to expensive as is.
There is a shocking lack of helpful information on this topic. Thank you sir!
I understand, and this is just the most basic, beginner information designed to help get you down the right path. I hope it helps. Thanks for watching!
First, miniatures are just markers. They're pretty markers that I've spent way too much money on, but they're just markers. It's entirely possible to play any game with much simpler markers (say bases with labels of what might eventually be on them). With that, a simple, practical way to build an army:
1) Pick an army that seems fun for whatever reason.
2) Build a list without worrying too much about it and make up proxy markers for the army.
3) Play a game with that proxied army. If your friends tell you that's not legal, find new friends.
4) If you still like the army after you have played it a few times, start buying models. If not, start over with a new army.
5) Buy only the figures every list for that army needs and start painting them. If you're not an accomplished painter, paint the rank and file first, because they're not what people pick up to stare at anyway. By the time that you get to the leaders, you'll be a better painter.
6) Play more games, using your painted figures and markers for whatever else. Each game, tweak the units you're using and find out how to set up the army to work with the way your brain works.
7) As you play, you'll figure out what you really need for your version of the army. Buy the stuff you know you want and paint it too.
8) Iterate until the army is fully painted.
9) Start over with a new army. (Not required, but realistically, .... 8-) )
That is a good way to do it. And I love point three.
One thing to add, don't feel pressured to buy and paint minis when you first start playing. I know from personal experience how much it sucks to plop down your cardboard proxys and paper on bases against lovingly crafted and well painted armies week after week against effective strangers.
"We each have a dozen land raiders and fight each other" you know... that sounds tempting
One other thing I would highly suggest before even buying rules is to find the subreddit for the game you want to play. For example I’ve just recently started painting up an army for Star Wars Legion, and the people over at the SWL subreddit have been INCREDIBLY helpful for a newbie to SWL like me.
I'm primarily a Bolt Action player and list building is aided by the theatre selectors in the army books. You choose your period and use the units/vehicles that were available at that point in time. What I always try to do is pick a theatre list and then research to find an actual division, regiment etc that fought in the campaign or battle and frame my list around that. Often my lists are 100% likely to lose but broadly historical and I'm perfectly fine with that :)
I built 3 1000 pts 40k lists before I realized that detachments exist. Luckily, I had everything required for atleast a batallion.
Good lord, the stuff around 9:39 feels like the EXACT situation I'm in. Over the last year I've been slowly trying to get my listing to something that can actually win at the 2k level (still no luck thus far, but I feel like that's also because A: vanilla CSM and B: heavily ITC area, so there's a lot of top-level meta to boot). I've been given models by various people they weren't using that helped expand my arsenal, but honestly the stuff I've been given I've either never used or just not gotten a good combo of things to make work. The Land Raider and old Iron Warrior warpsmith guy I was given in particular is the prime example of this. I plan that later on in the current Escalation event to try and give it a spin, but as it stands about the models I've gained of the gifts that's been most useful is the metal Obliterators, a few heavy weapons and a termie sorceror. The near constant year of getting my shit kicked in certainly isn't helping my mood either as I try to find some meta to get at least middle road foothold instead of middle of the pack bottom brackets even on the 'casual' tourney events. My plan for holiday/birthdays is to get my guard stuff I also have sitting around as well, but that listing is also far better planned, so I hope that even with a 'not meta' addition in the form of a Baneblade variant, I may have better luck with both playstyle and unit options, not to mention the fact I'm glitzing them up as renegade guardsmen so kinda also in a decent hobby groove.
15:14 That sir, is how you get pink eye.
Probably true. Thanks for watching!
addition to number 1 , if you plan on playing Bolt Action , get their starter-pack. The best starter pack in the game.
You get the box and you have everything to start playing (after building the models). Complete rulebook , a bit of scenery, 2x quick rule reference sheets , dice , a written guide on how to build you models (like what guns etc you need.) and that guide also guides you to your first game step by step.
Can't get easier into the hobby.
Thinking about whether or not you want to paint all of the models before you commit is a mistake a made several times as a rookie. I like the *idea* of horde armies. I don't like the tedious work of horde armies. I went through Imperial Guard and Skaven before I figured that out.
not knowing the play style/strategy you prefer ... kind of makes building lists really hard.
I do like what Battlefront has done with its 'slow grow league' for 'flames of war' where you build lists in segments, so it is easier to manage.
There's Escalation campaigns if you want to do the same in Warhammer 40k!
I am a big Excel nerd and I build my own table using excel for list building. I have learned to use query boxes so that nowadays I just update the points or stat's as they change without having to rewrite the whole sheet. Though I do admit there was a little more work involved when they made bikers fast attack. The other advantage of doing it this way is you learn the weapons and points really well. So now I key letters and numbers and my spread sheet populates the fields for HQ, Elite, Troops etc.. And it makes it so much easier to trial your own ideas.
I love building lists but I don't play (yet). It is a bit overwhelming so I'll definitely commit more to using Battlescribe. I keep seeing it but it feels awkward to use. Guess some more time on it will get me over the hump and help deal with the ungodly amount of options out there :)
Over time its less akward I find. Having an army and building the list feel so different because your quantifying something that requires imagination I guess lol
As a guy who works in the user interface and user experience field for mobile app development - I’ll admit, it’s a steep learning curve. I’d love to see them consider a redesign to make it more accessible to newer users. Thanks for watching!
@@tabletopminions Even if they used some images for models it would feel better
@@voultronix761 I know I’m 2 years late but man starting out I like cosmetics more then what’s meta if I think it looks cool I want it in my army
Something I did as well is made multiple lists that ramped up to the full list. Which was a lot of “listhammering” but I do enjoy that. It also allowed me to have smaller list I could play while still getting and painting models. Just a thought.
Super helpful video, Sir! I buy and paint Tyranids, but have never played them. I've played Space Hulk using Genestealers, but that's all. I don't even own a codex! Someday that may change and this video will be my inspiration!
Just wanted to say thank you, I recently turned 40 and your videos have given me the confidence to start printing minis. Such a wealth of information and inspiration on this channel.
Great video. It´s a very good advice to buy the models after the rules, otherwise you´ll end up with Valkyries and Chimeras that will probably never be used, totally didn´t happen to me...
Especially if the game of choice is 40k or AoS, there are lots of good Batreps to watch, really helped me deciding which army I want to play.
Your tip on using BattleScribe really fulfilled the last piece I needed to start teaching Mom to play before affording the core book. Regardless I absolutely intend to get the core kill team book and starter kit, so relax GW lol but I'm a bit broke and mum doesn't wanna glue up her Quins without knowing what she's doing.
Haven’t watched the video yet but I had this moment this morning. Looking forward to watching this Uncle Atom!
I would also recommend building and painting one unit at a time, in my experience it’s a lot easier to end up with armies full of gray plastic and just primed minis if you build and start one then build another new unit or model and another, I know it’s hard , sometimes you get a new model and you wanna build and start it even though your in the middle of another. But I would say it’s worth it to finish one then build paint the next, finish the next, etc... also looking at whole armies of un painted dudes can be a lot more daunting and make it harder to get motivated to paint, doing your one unit isn’t.
Thanks Uncle Atom! Once again, dropping knowledge bombs and encouragement. I have to admit, that building a list intimidates me to the point of inaction (I’d rather build and paint plastic). I was a 3rd/4th addition player and the compulsory list (2 troops, 1 HQ) made it less intimidating and easier to build my army. Fast forward to 8th Ed. and all the fancy new point costs and models...yargh! I am glad to hear that there are finally some electronic list builders out there. In the “good ‘ol days,” there were pitifully few. As a suggestion for a topic, could you perhaps do an episode (or two, maybe a series?) and show an example of what you do when you build a list? I know I would find it helpful and I have to believe I’m not the only one. Thanks again Uncle Atom! You are the best! Love the T-shirt in this episode as well!
(40k recommendation)
I recommend starting with a base for the army. Maybe some infantry and troop transports for them (I'd start with 2), and 1 character you think is awesome as hell. I think this is great because those units will never go out of style. You maybe use more or less as time progresses but in some capacity they should always be included. Then, play afew small games. Dont get upset when you lose, but think "okay, my guys were really struggling against THIS. What units could I buy to counter that?". Then it becomes time to think about heavy support, fast attack, elites, more characters, etc. 9th Is very objective based and i think starting here is important with that in mind. I've found people are really scared to take transports bc of the fear of them blowing up. From someone who consistently runs them it's actually rather rare for that to happen.
Too late I already buy a lot of models. But it's typicall for IG player.
I don't mind list building for most normal games. The one that I HATE building a list for is Infinity. Especially for tournaments. 3 totally different scenarios with totally different roles required for completion within 3 turns along with random objectives being generated, and you have 2 lists that you can make for the entire thing. So freaking stressful.
I'm eagerly awaiting the tabletop minis equivalent of Keyforge!
I’d tell you it’s Warhammer Underworlds, but then there’s actual deck building in that, so no. Close, though. Thanks for watching!
@@tabletopminions Very true!
Awesome video. I imagine new players would find it really helpful. Only thing I would add is its a good idea to play with proxy units, that is to say pretending one unit is another or that this drink can is a dreadnought. Doing so is a really good way to see if you want to play with that unit or army style and really helped me work out which models to get for 40k.
Since I don't know much about 40k, I simply chose a chapter I liked the look of and went on ebay and got cheap 2nd-hand models. I still haven't bought a codex, but I am still not close to even trying to play. Thanks COVID
Oh thank the Emperor you made this video. I just started building my first army, and figuring out what to get next all seems so daunting. Can't wait to watch this!
As usual, your t-shirt game is on point Sir!
I have had issues with list building, after collecting W40k models for a couple of decades I fell into DG with 8th edition and started playing with some friends.
But I was all shades of crap, took me ages to come up with a competitive army, but I was happily embracing my defeats, to a point where they were under pressure not to lose to me!
But really just wanted to have a chance of winning so with Battlescribe and TabletopTactics tactica videos I now have an DG army that does not suck and won on its last outing (Mortarion is a beast)
Part of the reason for my struggles was that I was never a DG fan, having got into the hobby from the lore and BL, just don't really feel them.
My current project is a World Eater army that I had been collecting for years, but knew it would not be good unless I embraced Khorne and went full Berserker. Man I feel this army. Cannot wait to get 50+ berserkers rampaging across the table.
So much more motivated and excited and that’s due to playing the army and style I want. Building a list before building and painting.
The List building helped me realise that I want my berserkers to have a Chain Axe and Chain Sword to get the extra attacks and -1 AP so I could build them accordingly.
I may still suck but it will be full throttle and skulls will be taken.
I just got back from Wasteland Weekend (a Mad Max festival in the desert) and Uncle Adam is wearing an MFP shirt. It's enough to make me cry.
List building is one of the funnest parts of the hobby, nothing more satisfying than a finished list that includes all required tools to survive in battle ^^
Live this video- gives a lot of sound advice for getting into the hobby
Really well thought out tips here.
I’m new to the miniatures wargaming hobby and am often overwhelmed by the number of “good” rule sets out there... in a good way. Half the fun for me is all the thought that’s put into the prep for all the advice given in this video... do I want historic vs non-historic wargaming, which historic period of interest, what/where are all the supporting rule sets, the optimal scale, miniatures/companies I like.
I liked MERCS and backed their Recon KS and bought all the factions. I hope to them some day... Haha. I also really like the Myth Boardgame those guys made. Hundreds of minis just waiting in boxes to be built and painted.
Also, When I built my first X-Wing Squadroni themed mine after the 104th Battalion and it was accurate from the show. I went 1-3-2 as my record. My losses were 1pt or less. Not too shabby. I didn't want to play X-Wing for competitive reasons, just to recreate battles from the Clone Wars.
11:53 for this exact reason i started playing tyranids in kill team, i just bought a bunch of termagants, some warriors and i converted one of them to be a lictor and i was good to go
Most of the list building I do is on my chamber pot. It's where I can really think, and come up with ideas.
After I spent about half a year playing a craftworld kill team I decided to jump to an army. I wanted to have a wraithknight because they look so cool. I got one at nearly half US price, added the units from my kill team and started building around that. 1 battalion with a super-heavy aux at 50 power. Balanced? No, but I "like these models"!
So when you build a list on the toilet, and. you actually run that list, does that mean you have the runs?
uncle atom, no good using that as a throw away line. i need a video on how to become a table top "Force of Nature". to bring life to your favorite game and to sweep away games that you disfavor with but a whim
Hey!! I was one of those folks asking for this exact topic. Thank you!
This video designed to make you feel whelmed rather than overwhelmed. I'm definitely feeling the aster.
Wow, whelmed IS actually a word. I was going to ask is whelmed even a word, but when the spell checker didn't highlight the word I decided to look it up. So if nothing else this video has taught me a new word.
I always buy the models I like and then look if/what army is possible.
I bought mixed dwarf / Order 2 or 3 years ago. Now the new book is out. I mean, sometimes your lil dudes just have to wait until their time has come
Btw - I bought just a few models because of their warscroll - still havent painted them/stopped painted them/hadnt had fun painting them(All Stormcasts, Bloodreavers Slaughterpriest) -> will never do that again.
My question for you (after doing as much research as I can) is can you get into the mini-world without anybody to play with? I love the Age of Sigmar lore and am tempted to buy all the books and make an army and start painting but if I have nobody to play with (closest game store is 2 hours away) should I even bother???
I say yes. You'll start out spending much more time at the hobby table than the game table anyway. It'll be worth it to make a few day trips out to the game store once you have an army (call and ask if/when people play AOS). You can get some games in and ask around there if anyone else is from your direction, then best case scenario play at their house. :)
I'm not sure I ever feel overwhelmed, but gosh list building really can be a rabbit hole. Something GW introduced a little while back is the faction benefits and I find it's easy to get stuck in a loop optimising for one benefit / faction and then thinking it might work better with another faction/benefit. But hey, now those units don't make sense, so you end up starting over... Have spent many happy hours 'crafting' in that way.
Fluff armies FTW.
What are your thoughts on the Lord of the Rings Strategy Battle Game? Personally, even though it seems like Games Workshop’s forgotten third game, it’s got easy to follow gameplay, straightforward list-building rules, and fun skirmish gameplay. If you like the IP, it’s a good gateway game, in my opinion.
"...and that would be a lot of videos...PACHOW!"
Where'd ya score the Mad Max shirt?! :O GOOSE LIVES!
this is why I don't play tactical games that use lists for points and balanced play. just set up your forces and see what works! if I own it, I want to use it. and depending on the game, there may be a smaller or larger size army on the table. play for fun!
do not be afraid of slow building your armies it is perfectly acceptible to only add a unit or two in a long period of time
Nice shirt. The Goose?
Yes
Great info
Its honestly why im having a hard time wanting to get into 40k because of all the different weapon types and combinations that all have different point costs.
Can you make videos on using battle scribe. Different point values etc. I am having issues, figuring out mt army. I have death guard but there is supposed to be a way to run nurglings etc that are daemons without death guard keyword but are still in the death guard codex and still get the death guard bonus. Basically the setup in the app beyond basic setup it is confusing. Thank you for your help. Joe
This is that sweet sweet content. Love it Atom.
As an Orks player, the biggest struggle I have, is that no matter what I come up with in lists, it always ends up as "ALL DA DAKKA! WAAAAAGH!!!!!", lol.
Boyz before toyz
As a guard player, I just look at all the models, and just say, "FOR THE EMPEROR! PURCHASE THE DEATHSTRIKE!" (or something like that. a deathstrike is a tank with a massive missle on it.
Could someone explain to me why a 40k vehicle is $100 or more? You can purchase a 1/35 scale armor kit, with hundreds of parts, for $60 or less. Thanks
great vid
Hello TM thank you for the videos... I am looking for videos on how to run a good game demos for miniatures and borad games for new player. I can not find any good ones. And you give me any tips
List building is not my favorite. I'm always "afraid" the list I build will be "bad" especially if I loose that first game. However, I've on occasion built lists for armies I don't even play just for "fun"
Hey does the app show command point abilities? I can't figure out how to see what I can spend my command points on.
40k's Strategems are in the core rulebook and faction codices + supplement books
I have a somewhat off topic 40K question. I recently picked up the dark imperium set for the death guard and am looking to get the codex to expand into a real army. The guys at the LGS told me to maybe wait on buying the codex because it's old and might be updated soon. Would you suggest I wait for GW to release a new death guard codex or just pick up the current one? Thanks!
If you don't mind painting without playing, then wait. If you want to play as you paint then you need the current codex. The problem with either of these choices is you don't have any idea of what may or may not be changed, if at all. IMO, the best choice is to have the RULES, it'll help no matter any changes and the lore is great!
holy crap, this video was made especially for me
Build an army that's fluffy and hope it works. I don't think you can get to hung up on a "competitive" list. I think it says a lot about the individual who just want to "win". Of course this is personal and people can do as they please. We spend a lot of money on our hobby so the individual should get the experience they desire from it. In the end, its just plastic.
In German: „patschau“. 😂👍🏻
My difficulty is wanting to get a variety regardless of effectiveness.
I am overwhelmed
Dig the shirt!
It's so hard to actually get a grip with how to put an army together in GWs games I always find listbuilding so badly explained and vague in their books or is it just me who feels that way? There has to be a less confusing way
dude, i wouldn't recommend using android battlescribe to my worst killteam-playing enemy. it crashes your phone when trying to make a space marine team. ever since elites came out, the huge amount of special variants of units available due to chapter doctrines overloads the app. not even a Galaxy S10 can whitstand it
That’s odd, I haven’t had any trouble on my iPhone X with BattleScribe - and I mostly build Kill Team lists. Thanks for watching!
That's wierd all I use is android to make all my list from killteam to sigmar and 40k. Not even a "new" one. May wanna get your phone check out.
I build and paint what looks good to me now. List building is too cornfusing!
nice t-shirt! :-)
Wish I watched this video $700 ago.
I love list building
battlescripe is just genius in linst building
"Step 1 dont buy any models" *me who already bought a starter kit* ope oops lol
Yes it’s stupid. I wish GW would have na app for it but it would probably cost $100. But damn using battle scribe for the first time without a book is like random selecting al sorts of shit to no avail.
👆
I fail at Step 1.....🥴
I was actually looking for you to, you know, SAY these rules that you want me to go "look up" This is literally me now looking it up, and i found this unhelpful
#3, I DO LIKE THESE MODELS? Dyslexia moment.
That would be a well-built sentence in many other languages. Uncle Atom is simply not determined in which language he would like to talk about building an army.
Switch "Do" and "I" and it will be correct.
If you're trying to be competitive, take some time to learn statistics and linear regression models. Most wargames on the market are nothing more than keeping statistics in your favor. Especially GW games.
Hi, I am also a toilet-lister.
Definitely, for busy people, would be better pre built armies, so just pick and play.
"Downloading the rules if they are a free download"... all rules are free downloads. :3
And if they aren’t they’re free if you torrent them
Is it me or the video is sliiiightly desinc with the audio?
It's just you.
A bunch of puds who just showed up, lol
This comment is for the UA-cam algorithm.