The Myth of Scandinavian Socialism
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- Опубліковано 8 лип 2019
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Tons of people who support "Democratic Socialism" argue that the US should be more like Scandinavia, and while there are some great things about Denmark, Sweden, Finland, and Norway, the idea that they're good examples of socialism is a myth.
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Written by Seamus Coughlin & Jen Maffessanti
Animated by Seamus Coughlin
Produced by Sean W. Malone
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Why does the Norwegian navy put bar codes on the sides of their ships? So when they return to port they can Scandinavian.
booo
eeeyyyyyyy!
Awesome!
I'm calling the pun police on you.
That was actually clever when you sound it out. Props to you
As a finnish person I can't believe and am infuriated that you portrayed norway as a heavy metal band member instead of Finland. DO YOU KNOW WHICH COUNTRY IS NUMBER 1 IN HEAVY METAL GROUPS PER CAPITA IN THE WORLD???? IT'S FINLAND
I got so upset about that too!
I'M NOT EVEN FINNISH BUT I'M PISSED 😡
It wasn't heavy metal, it was black metal, which is most commonly associated with Norway (mainly because of Varg Vikernes).
Yeah but if those bands all suck it becomes irrelevant! LOL just kidding lots of good Finnish metal and other music as well. I think the thing with Norway is the dudes shirt said black which I think is pointing out the fact of Norwegian black metal being the first and best in the world of that genre! But hey you did throw out a cool fact there about bands per capita. I had no idea and I’m into metal. Especially stuff coming from Scandinavia!
Nightwish. Nuff said
Socialisn't
niggatunes
pepe the frog harderdaddytoons
You are Seamus Coughlin, right?
pepe the frog is also against racism
@@Buklen No he's racist because he said the N-word
Use the term Nordic countries because that includes Scandinavia, Finland and Iceland
Iceland is already Scandinavia
@@yoavmor9002 Scandinavia only includes Denmark, Sweden and Norway
@@baldurelitraustason662 And Findland.
@@nathanracher2911 No
ua-cam.com/video/TsXMe8H6iyc/v-deo.html
@@yoavmor9002 No Iceland is not Scandinavia
I demand free Viking horns! It is not fair that only the 1% of the 1% can summon lightning!
Vikings didn't wear horned helmets it's completely historically inaccurate
Viking horns are a human right!
@@sheldonj.plankton163 damn, u beat me 2 it! Still though.
you are not worthy!
@@sheldonj.plankton163 You are not horny enough.
So what you're saying is... we'd all be happier with government mandated Viking horns?
...
Makes sense to me.
But I thought it was afrikaners "science" that could call down lightning, not "western people ".
I'm of mostly German/Russian linages so to me 'Large fitness camps', 'sealed chambers with lots of seating capacity' and 'investing in monsanto's old product lines' seems like good and patriotic government mandates. :P
They never touched on the happiness thing because they couldn't counter it.
They have high standards and offer genuine benefits, whereas the US businesses are megalithic and monopolistic. The US business culture is anti-competitive. They play State governments against one another, and exploit the citizens both as employees and customers. This makes their capitalism work. A working soceity makes happy people.
@@Guztav1337 They're also an ethnically homogenous low population with a single shared culture. That usually makes things peaceful and everyone happy.
@@Guztav1337I think you’re meaning Keynesian economics is bad as it has gov intervention meanwhile Hayekian economics is much better
As a black metal fan, I approve of Norway's avatar, now, to watch Call of the Wintermoon while maintaining the Grimness
@@thotslayer9914 wym?
Maybe an anarchist?maybe??? Maybe???
Why you white
But what about the arrival of the winged hussars?
NO THAT'S FINLAND
There are a lot of misleading facts in this article. I can only speak for Denmark, which is the country whose economy I have studied (and lived in).
GDP per capita is lower, yes, but the hourly production of each worker is higher. This means that the GDP per capita is lower because we take more vacations and work less, not because we overall are a poorer country. Whether that trade-off is worth it is debatable, but it's just that: a trade-off. We prioritize less work and more leisure, which results in a slightly lower ability to consume.
And yes, taxes are high. But when comparing take-home pay, it is disingenious not to include the price of healthcare insurance in the US, for instance. Yes, free stuff is not "free", but it's a way to redistribute wealth. In the US, everyone pays the same for healthcare. In Denmark, what you pay for healthcare depends on what you earn. This helps the lower and middle class significantly. This point also applies to college. Like before, it's subjective whether or not you prefer this, but many do.
Also, it is a mixed truth to say that we have scaled the social-democratic systems back for the last 30 years. We spend more and more money on our public sector every year, to compensate for the fact that we currently have a lot of children, a lot of elderly people, and few in the working age (this will obviously improve when the large child generation joins the workforce, and the smaller workforce generation retires).
In Denmark, just 4 days before this video was posted, the left wing in Denmark won their largest victory in modern history, with a promise to cut back the tax cuts and reinvest in the welfare state.
Whether you want to call Scandinavia socialist is up to personal taste. We don't, personally. We call it socialdemocratic. However, in the US, these same policies are called democratic socialist, or just socialist, by the mainstream media. If you define socialism as the Bernie Sanders brand, it wouldn't be inaccurate to call Scandinavia socialist. Different strokes for different folks. But this argument can't be used to discredit Sanders or AOC.
The only thing you are 100% correct about is the fact that we mostly don't have minimum wages, and it is up to unions and employers to negotiate the high wages.
All this confusion comes from the stupid american belief that the definition of socialism is "when government does things"
Your reply is golden
Anyone that watches this video should read this reply
And the reason the Unions are able to do that is because the government gives them protection from the corporations who of course want to bust them like in the US, Where they make it illegal to strike if you make the overlords too much money. Another thing, I remember I saw an American joke about how when "The economy" is bad they have to pocet their pennies and make it through, and then when "The economy" is going well they... get exactly 20 bucks as a thank you. Meanwhile in Norway you actually get that money back via the gowernment spending it on You instead of tax-cuts for the rich. Its funny how people always say Norway is rich becouse of oil when England drills that exact same oil but instead spends it on tasx-cuts. If I reamember corectly the gowernment is alowed to spend 2% of the Oilfund we put all the mony from the oil in each year.
we don't have a lot of Children in Denmark, we do however have a lot of elderly people and next generation on pension is also quite a large generation but since people have gotten 1,7, 1,8 children the past many many years there are to few young people and children
One nit-pick: if we're going to be fair about comparing net incomes, we have to subtract what Americans pay out of pocket for healthcare and other things that are covered by social programs in these nordic countries. That extra tax burden doesn't just disappear, they get at least some value out of it (whether or not it closes the gap can be debated).
True, but most Americans are given health insurance by their employers and that's not counted as part of our income. (Also, how do Nordic countries handle dental and vision because a lot of universal systems don't cover that)
@@Monsuco In Norway we have it for free til we are 16, after that we have to pay for denatal. Its not much tough
The difference is you have a choice in the US of what level of healthcare you take, and even the ability not to take any at all. In all of these countries with "free" services, they tax the living hell out of you and you have to pay the line item for the service whether you want it or not; whether you use it or not; at the price the govornment sets. No cost at the time services are rendered is not no-cost.
@@FEARSWTOR You also have to consider that the US has had a series of major decreases in quality of health care, in both cost of care and quality of such, mostly due to insurances and major hospital corporate control. You have to consider that mediocre health care is better than none, and for many Americans they just cannot afford or get health insurance and work, as many jobs for lower or lower-middle class Americans don't offer good or sometimes any medical protection, making government unemployment safer than employment.
@@tavianbroadhead78 I'll take no healthcare and paying ala carte over mediocre Healthcare that I have to pay $50 a week for any day. The extra $2600 in my pocket easily outweighs 2 $90 doctor visits per year, and anything major such as a broken bone is only covered for the first $3,000 anyway. If you're talking about a country with "free" healthcare, you can count on that weekly amount being far more.
I worked in Scandinavian countries and other eu countries. By far the easiest and best place to do business. Very unburocratic , also hard working and very intelligent people. It has been a pleasure working there. It's not because they are socialist but because the economy is quite free from government burden, that way they can be very productive
its because of regulations that stops the market from becoming such a hostile feudal shitcake like the US
@@magnusorn7313 like what regulations?
@@magnusorn7313 conservative excuses with"regulation"
@@magnusorn7313 the markets there are less regulated than in the US
So they arent socialist
I was quite shocked when I realise just how little tax Americans pay. Some states like Florida or Texas don't pay any income tax at all! Here in Europe we're so used to being taxed at 20% income as an absolute minimum we hardly even think about it. I can live with being taxed if we get the public services but people need to stop pretending that our healthcare is free. It's really not.
Oh god, and I thought WE had high taxes
Only 20%? Where do you pay that little?
@@makeromaniagreatagain9697 In the UK. That's the basic rate of course. Once you're earning more than £37.7k you start paying 40% on everything over. By European standards yes we're by no means the highest but compared with the rest of the English speaking world - Canada, Australia, USA it's a lot of tax. I wouldn't mind paying taxes if I was actually getting the public services but needless to say despite our high taxes the whole UK public sector is always in a funding crisis. There's never enough money and the staff are constantly miserable and striking for more...
@@themole4369 come to Texas, as long as you’re not going to Austin or Dallas you should be fine
I'm Swedish and I have had enough of it. The only people getting anything out of that money are people who usually aren't even citizens or who shouldn't be, and the politicians. It's theft and it's greed and it's not okay.
Some of the worlds lowest corporate taxes and highest personal tax. Sounds socialist i guess...
Sadly most people don't listen when you point that out. All they say is "free [insert want here]."
Socialism but in a different name
@Donald Smith they still have high wealth inequality. And low taxes and regulations for businesses. Some even have their social security privatized. What makes them closer to capitalist is regulations.
@Donald Smith What makes a nations economy capitalist is that is largely free to function organically with minimal interference from its government. While socialism in its most basic form is when large portions of an economy are centrally regulated/directed by the government. Although a lot of people mistake it for being a large degree of social programs which is where the government provides direct support to a its people in one form or another, often payed for through taxation. The best way to summarise most Scandinavian countries would be as capitalist economies with a larger degree of social programs, which they can more easily afford due to being much smaller countries both in terms of physical size and population.
@Donald Smith the American Middle Class pays 19% income taxes, while the Denmark Middle class pays between 52 and 62%. The lower class in America pay 0% in income taxes, while the Denmark lower class pays 25-32%. If you want Scandinavia, you'll have ta pay for it too.
“*Scandinavian* countries like Finland”
Suomi: *PERKELE!*
- In case you don’t get the joke, Finland is Nordic and not a Scandinavian country, which tends to cause some misconceptions.
@ Cough 1808-09 cough 1917 cough. Terribly sorry, something got caught in my throat...
@Dan Neutron Can you please tell me who these previous unhabitants were? were it Seagulls or seals?
_"Finland is Nordic and not a Scandinavian country"_
I don't see why it can't be Scandinavian since the northern part can be seen as part of the peninsula. It's like saying Russia is not in Europe. You can make a case that Russia is in Europe. Denmark, on the other hand, does not have any of its territory on what could be called the Scandinavian peninsula.
Also, I don't think there is any misconception. Scandinavia can also be a political designation like the "Balkans". Greece and Bulgaria are on the Balkan peninsula but they are never referred to as "the Balkans".
2:51 Another thing, there’s a huge mistake placing the metal-fan avatar as Norwegian. If you live in the Nordic area you know more than well that such avatar could only belong to a Finn.
A smiling, sweet-looking Finn... yeah, sure...
@ Finland is NOT part of Sweden.
It is a common misconception Viking helmets had horns.
Vikings actually had horns and wore helmets made to fit heads with horns.
its a common misconception cartoons need to be accurate
@Viktor Birkeland are you dumb? Did you not read his comment accurately? Are you unable to notice that he is also going along with the joke the OP wrote?
That's actually a common misconception. Vikings grew reindeer antlers and only filed them down to pointy horns whenever sailing out to invade Britain.
I'm glad Norwegian Black Metal is getting the recognition it deserves
I moved to the US (I’m Norwegian), and I was talking to this guy, and then I said I’m from Norway, and he said, oh that socialist country? I’m tired of people thinks Norway is socialist :(
you are right , its a gas/oil pump , simple😉
As much as I love all the videos FEE puts out, Seamus’s videos are my favorites
I like the cartoon format, it's something that even socialists can understand. Then again maybe I'm, being to generous.
Donald Smith double cringe
Donald Smith double cringe
@@zacksima8333 triple cringe
BigBalloon19087 quadruple cringe
2:14 could we keep that blonde screaming viking please?? It's really cool.
*sees Black Metal used for Norway*
Me: *happiness noise*
Öugh!
PERKELE
Im staying in Denmark. Just the health care alone is worth it
facts
@@HWEWSWEW In denmark you get the same health care no matter your income or work releations. So if you get fired and life turns to shit you still got you health. How do the health system in the us take care of people without work and insurence ? Sorry for the spelling.
@@ramone79 Our healthcare crisis didn't begin untill the government created medicare and mediaid because when you artifically simulate demand it gives out no incentive for a lower price. The problem with Universal healthcare is that its shittier than privatized healthcare which is cheaper per person and higher quality than universal healthcare. look at it in this way, imagine looking at our policing system and schooling system and saying "hey, I would love to see that but in healthcare form" Everything that the government does is 10x shittier than the private version and more expensive.
Hunter W I mean if this was true then why do 42 percent of all cancer patients in the US lose their life savings within the first two years of treatment? Medicad doesn’t just take away your debt if you have loads of medical debt
@@HWEWSWEW That's just propaganda constantly being propegated, there is no big american dream or much higher chance to become wealthy in the US. You do in fact, have a much bigger chance to become wealthy if you have fair access to resources, such as education, facilities, and staying healthy without having to pay anything for it. There is much more equal opportunity over here and thus many more people (percentually) have the option to go into a high field or start a business if they want. Also, "most professionals are multi millionaires by the time they are 60" , what kind of professionals are you even talking about? Doctors, dentists, lawyers? Movies may make you believe this but the vast majority, in fact, earn a very average wage.
1:50 Let's cover the things that the higher taxes do though. Numbers time. The average income is about 8k USD higher in Norway and Sweeden than the US so making the piles the same doesn't really convey anything about how a person in the US would fare if they worked in Norway or Sweeden. The average healthcare costs in the USA is 10k USD per person which would be covered by the tax-funded programs in Norway and Sweeden. Average student Debt is in the USA is 31k USD but college is free in Norway and Sweeden. Most Americans won't be able to retire by 65 but the government help allows most to everyone retire in Norway and Sweeden. 1/2 men and 1/3 women will get cancer in their lifetimes so most families in the USA would at some point be getting hit with a fat 41k USD/year cost of medical fees but again, covered in Norway and Sweeden.
Nordic countries are social democracies (high taxation on capitalistic economics) so yes, not socialist! However, you'd have to be either delusional or just uninformed to disvalue the programs Nordic countries have implemented even just from the perspective of the average person between each country.
That's also comparing two wildly different decades of policy on /all/ of those things. "Social reform" won't do much when government interference and "social" reform are the foundations of the issues in American with things like healthcare costs, student debt and retirement.
Fair point. I live in the US and healthcare is a business here that 1000s of business owners, small and big make lot of money using sick people. Government needs to be more forceful when it comes to healthcare and education otherwise things wont improve drastically. But I have no hope that the US government will be forcing drastic change unfortunately. So American will remain as a nation that has 30%+ people struggling with debt, with food insecurity, unable to retire, living pay check to paycheck as they say.
@tjuyftutjyfudt like the US and it's fascination with military domination. Some food for taught.
@tjuyftutjyfudt yeah they are also two capitalist nations, with China even atempting of becoming a superpower. War is an imperialist tool and imperialism is the highest stage of capitalism.
@tjuyftutjyfudt they did so to further defend themselves against the west whom would'nt even let the soviet union exist. But i agree it dosn't give them the right to invade weaker nations but when it came to death or survival they did what they thought they had to do. Plus if you want to talk about anaxation and satalite states, just look what the US did in South America. Just look up opperation condor and you'le get it.
You're right, we're left with less once tax has been paid. However this tax makes sure we don't have to bankrupt ourselves whenever we're in need of care, pursue higher learning or simply feel like going for a walk.
Here's the thing, it is much more difficult to become a millionaire here, but the odds of you becoming a millionaire aren't in your favour anyway. Perhaps more importantly our tax is adjusted, as a general rule we don't offer tax breaks to billionaires. Some people say this is unfair, i.e ''why should I pay for being succesful?'' But actually it is fair, because it means tax has the same impact on all.
Some say our welfare model lets people to leech of of the system, but our high tax allow us to make sure people don't. This sense of security also makes people happier(Yes, there's actually a way to measure this) which is really important when you live in a country where it rains most of the year.
So yeah, it's the little things. But like most things in this world it isn't perfect and no Scandinavian would use the word utopia to describe it, we complain just as much about our government as any other well-off nation.
Also Viking helmets didn't have horns, likely the tourist office came up with that one. Just like the "throw another shrimp on the barby" was written in the US. You say tomato, Aussies say prawns.
facts, most of the people here just want the US to be #1 at everything
Yeah like, sure it ain't socialist and yada yada, but perhaps they maaaay be doing sooome things right?
elitist douche bag elitist
the US does tax the rich higher but they don't tax them equally to what poor people are taxed🤦🏻♀️ you can see this in basic situations such as a $100 speeding ticket being much more severe to a poor person than to a millionaire or are you too deluded in the mind to comprehend that?
and also multi-millionaire companies do get tax breaks🤦🏻♀️ and a lot of them cheat the system. Millionaires also do not "pioneer" our economy that's the consumers which *gasp* are the middle and poor class. if people stopped fucking buying then the economy would crash. so don't even try and make it seem like rich people are why our economy is great.
and on top of that the programs installed such as free heath care and education are not so "people can flood the country" nordic countries have some of the lowest rates of minorities in general. it is a safety net for their own citizens and that's why they are happier than most other countries including america.
lastly get over yourself and stop screaming in the comments
Yea I agree and obviously the culture in the Nordic countries (specifically the high reputation and respect that individuals such as teachers get in the community) contribute to their overall happiness statistics aswell, but nonetheless the government system of support and development sets up the country for success from the ground up. I think you’ll find that there’s a very small poor class in these countries as a result of this and that’s what I’d refer to as democratic socialism tbh
@elitist douche bag Which is called a social democracy
Should have mentioned how much his butt implant would be taxed.
I know this is an old video but I wanted to point out that the Nordic countries spend very very little on their military. Their military budget is almost nonexistent comparatively. They rely heavily on the UN and the United States for protection. Let that sink in
@GustavIII 1772 The Nordic countries rely on the U.S. and U.N. for their very existence at this point. If you don't know that you're ignorant on the subject.
As I guess I am on your yankee reference
@@pendragonshall Finland's military spending last year was 22% of its budget. Don't pretend that the Nordic countries are a single blob which are entirely homogenous.
@@donthasselthehoff5753 NORDIC COUNTRIES SPEND VERY LITTLE ON THEIR MILITARY.. Finland spends LESS than 2% on average of it's GDP. 22% of it's budget when it's budget is small is STILL VERY LITTLE> UNDER 4 BILLION... They RELY HEAVILY on the U.S. AND the U.N. For protection.. If that hurts your pride or you just feel like fighting then tough. QUit pretending my ass, YOU quit pretending like I'm wrong.
@@pendragonshall Actually Finland spends 3% of its GDP on the military (while the US spends about 3.5%...). Mind telling me how Finland relies on the US when Finland doesn't belong to NATO?
@@donthasselthehoff5753 It's not even 1.5%, your looking at civilian inclusion in that. The U.S. spends more than the ENTIRETY of EUROPE on military. YOU don't know how weak your own military is, is your problem. Start educating yourself and quit trying to argue from ignorance. You don't know what you're really talking about. LOOK IT UP. EDUCATE YOURSELF.. Quit relying on other people/me to explain something easy to look up. And if you don't understand how weak the nordic countries are and how it's the U.S. and sad for you the U.N. are protecting you. You're not paying attention. But hey, we have a bozo in office and an idiotic govt. now so. Don't rely on the U.S. much longer. Now I'm done, if you want to argue it's going to be with yourself. Trying looking at all sides next time and look up data that doesn't actually support what you think and see where you end up. Your military is weak and ours is lead by a moron now so. there you have it
I don’t exactly understand how this is supposed to disprove what they believe? Even if they have higher income tax they’re still provided for in other ways that make it less of a problem. Homelessness is still lower, happiness is still higher, the education system is still way better, healthcare is still accessible, the welfare system is still better, what exactly does this change? This seems like it completely dodged the point, most socialists are fine with taxes as long as other services are provided for free universally, why would this change their mind?
I can tell this channel is more focused on individualism and capitalism. That people should be as free as possible. Which I personally agree with. I personally don't care if a centralized government causes others to be happy. I want my rights to not be tread upon. Maybe that's their point?
Denmark and Norway less ownership class
Boopy Schmoops It’s wrong to assume that the education system is better. On average it might be, but the best American schools outshine any of the Scandinavian. The same is true for healthcare. The best American hospitals are miles ahead of the Scandinavian ones. America is actually fairly economically mobile, the same thing can’t be said about the Scandinavian countries (www.npr.org/sections/money/2014/05/05/308380342/most-americans-make-it-to-the-top-20-percent-at-least-for-a-while?t=1580151307203). It’s also wrong to assume that Scandinavians are happier, considering happiness has a lot to do with culture. Scandinavians are taught to be cheerful and happy no matter what, Americans not so much. Norway also has a high GDP because of their huge oil reserves. And all of that oil money is distributed over 5.5 million people. That’s a lot of money, considering how few people live there. Norway would not be able to finance a lot of their welfare programs if it weren’t for the oil. Circumstances have a lot to say, not only political systems.
Ziggysaurusrex and think about what can happen if oil tanks or goes away...
My mortgage costs between $18k - $19k a year. If I lived in Scandinavia I wouldn't be able to afford my home because of the higher taxes. America has treated me very well. I don't understand all the hate.
I love how the tiny sail barely pushing the longship is a t-shirt that says universal basic income
@Jeff Oliver that's not entirely true. But the way Yang wants to do it... yeah.
I'd purpose taking back 100% government and currency. No more gold or petroleum standard. Which would allow us 2 things.
1. To print additional funds as needed
2. To determine the value of our currency ourselves.
@@thescribe5494 that would cause hyperinflation.
@@thescribe5494
"i dont like the version yang wants which would cause no to a minimal amount of inflation.
instead i wasnt to do what sounds like it was designed just to cause inflation."
@@thescribe5494 Thats literally just a Counterfeit Scheme.
Vikings never wore the horned helmets,
It was something that artist added centuries later.
Real Vikingism has never been tried
I heard the same thing from CGP Gray.
@@markcrawford5810 In Sweden you learn that in school
@@8is Ok.
@@BlueAxeRacer Nobody cares.
that's how it works right? You want more social security, you need to pay higher taxes. If you ask me it'd be worth it, since that means less time spent on worrying and more time spent on living.
Less time borrowing money for medical bills, more time not dead!
I usually don't get these kind of arguments. Like, yeah, you don't have to personally pay insurance but it's not free, you're still paying it, you still end up with less money to live your day to day life since those taxes also generate a cost.
@@coindorni that's the thing, my argument is not based on monetary gain, my argument is based on having less stress and less worrying. Yes you still lose money, but it's also been proven that less stressed people are smarter and harder working - so they can more easily earn the money and/or be happy.
@@coindorni The point is that there is a secure minimum though. With a strong security net, no matter how badly someone fucks up, they are at least guaranteed the BARE MINIMUM to survive. They can always start from square 1 with nothing and work their way back up without having to worry about what will happen. They can just focus on improving their condition.
That is not the case in the US. In the US going bankrupt or homeless is a nightmare. Medical bills haunt our thoughts, and Education is a massive risk that can lead to financial ruin. You can still succeed in the US, but everything is a risk here. Once you fall to the bottom, there is no security net to help you back up. You can keep falling. You can lose everything. Home, a secure food source, healthcare, no access to education, and no way to self improve. And once you fall that far down, your only concern is focused on survival rather than actually bettering yourself.
And this happens a lot in the US. Medical bankruptcy is the leading cause of Bankruptcy in the US. 40 to 50 thousand people die every single year in the US due to lack of sufficient healthcare. There are trillions of dollars of student loan debt in this country and unlike normal debt, you cant even declare bankruptcy on it. We have no housing for the homeless, and are incredibly strict on food security for those who are poor and in need.
Living at the bottom in the US is a nightmare. There is no easy way back up, and while it is TECHNICALLY possible to craw your way back up, thats very rarely the case and it almost always ends in disaster.
The strong social security net shows that Society cares about its citizens and wants to provide the opportunity for anyone to succeed by providing the BARE MINIMUM so that they can always get back up on their feet and try again.
@@eragon78 Ok, it is kind of a long comment considering I only commented like 50 words so I'll try to answer shortly.
First off, education, which main problem you say is student loans. I think the problem here is the student loans themselves, which are overwhelmingly Federal subsidized. This causes increasing prices for colleges, which in the long run makes the next generations more and more likely to fall into debt. But I still agree it's a big problem.
Second off, healthcare. The main problem here are regulations and permissions you need to work as a doctor, especially if you're an immigrant, this makes the offer decrease, and consequently, the prices rise, the same with a pre-defined healthcare business model in the way that it is centralized into big hospitals, before because it was more efficient but now because of regulations, which makes it harder to open a clinic, and the harder it is to enter the competition the less competitive the market is and this usually leads to higher prices. This is according to a book called "The innovator's prescription" by Clayton M. Christensen along with two doctors which I don't remember the name of at the moment.
This system sounds great but it's so hard to implement in other countries. I'm from South America and I'm sure that most people here would support higher taxes if our public services were as efficient as those in Nordic countries. But having one of the most corrupted governments in the world, it makes sense that more and more people are choosing the ancap way lol
that's a really good point
honestly the reason that the Scandinavians implement their policies so well is that they are generally among the least corrupt countries in the world (according to corruption PERCEPTION, key word, studies). regardless of your thoughts on the Nords I think this is a pillar of their societies and that we would need to figure out how they do it regardless of weather their policies are imported or not
Then we also have the fact that if you had an even romotly socialist country the US would just support a military cuop or invasion cuz le freedom
That's one of the issues. There is a culture of assisting the social group and taking advantage of the social nets results social ridicule. This is why Eastern Asian countries can have a fully automated, self check out noodle place but other places can't. There is also the issue of region and population density. With a population of 300 million and a land mass equal to the whole of Europe, it's not easy to regulate things as smaller countries.
Yeah, the same I would say about Ukraine. We have pretty much no trust to government.
Ok, so those policies that they have in Scandinavia and that, as we said, are not socialists, does anybody want them in other places? Because I'm not Scandinavian but I think that those policies quite make sense. Now someone will think "no! Public healthcare is too much socialist!" Ok I guess
I mean, it's a package deal. Sanders isn't promoting this for example. Sweden has this with very high middle class taxes and taxes in general, very high flat-rate social security contributions that apply to businesses if all sizes, a high Value Added Tax. The population at large carries a high tax burden vs the US. So you have to be willing to give up a lot of financial liberty - that is, freedom to decide what to spend your money on - to get all this. If a Swede decides he just wants an associates degree level education and not a PHD, he doesn't get a tax refund.
Sanders' very much is proposing a diet version of Socialism, skewing the tax burden heavily towards the top 1% to fund the programs. That's not what Sweden does.
So if people want to champion the Nordic Welfare model, then that's fine enough, that's a discussion worth having. But when someine holds up Sweden as a golden example while proposing wealth tax, high estate tax, excessively high marginal taxes specifically for millionaires, high corporate taxes, high property taxes as a means to pay for it like Sanders' does, they are being pretty dishonest or ignorant because Sweden has none of those things and that's not how Sweden works.
@@Nuvendil Stiiiiiiiiiilll not Socialism. High taxes on the rich still isnt socialism. Its just a market capitalist economy with high taxes on the rich. Thats all it is.
Socialism means that the community owns the means of production in some way. Taxes have nothing to do with this. Taxes arent controlling the means of production, but rather, taxes are just taking a portion of the generated wealth and using it for government programs whatever they may be.
So yea, even if you want to argue that what Bernie is doing is different, its still not Socialism.
@@eragon78 no, taxes are actually theft, and that's true independent of them being high just for the very rich or for everyone. it might not be socialism, but it is social democracy/keynesian economy, which while not a bad, it's still pretty bad.
@@jonathacirilo5745
if you think taxation is theft, then are you an anarchist? Personally I dont really debate with anarchist as its a waste of time, so I usually like knowing that ahead of time.
Also, having high taxes on the rich isnt social democracy/keynesian, unless you believe thats what the US is. Its called a marginal tax rate, and its something that every modern country on earth does. So unless you want to argue that the US is a social democracy or keynesian economy, then youre point doesnt work here. Because thats just how marginal tax rates work.
A lot of the Nordic country policies are literally everywhere BUT the US. Nordic countries do manage to do better than the rest of Europe, Canada, and Oceania because of great policy decisions, but in the end anything is better than the nightmarish dystopia that some people call a dream.
Personally I think its very much a "you get what you pay for" type of situation. Americans don't pay a lot, but they don't get a lot in return. What they do get is overpriced for the quality, but that's my opinion. There are things about the Nordics as well people don't consider, like how culturally you're punished for being successful or how for five to six months out of the year some cities have to put up blue lightbulbs due to the total darkness and the depression it can cause people to have. You won't get obscenely rich in the Nordics unless you're in certain sectors, but you can live a full life. The US can have a private healthcare market, same as the Nordics and many other nations, but what the US gets wrong in my eyes is that in other nations private healthcare is supplementary to whatever the state provides- or in Germany the state regulates what the companies provide (afaik not their rates).
I agree, 'you get what you pay for' is pretty accurate. For america, it links pretty closely to the core idea behind the constitution: individualism. You fail or succeed based on your own merits. The government's job is to make a fair playing field and to make sure people don't harm eachother (physically or in specific non-physical ways). There's a reason why the american dream is to go from rags to riches, it's because to get there you need to work hard and prove yourself through merit.
If these high taxes were voluntary, it would be more accurate to say that. It is really expensive living here and if you want to make any serious money, you ought to look for work elsewhere. We also have really shitty public schools, health care, etc. It's being clogged up by non-productive immigrants, too.
@Donald Smith Americans don't think taxes are evil, Americans are simply more inclined to doubt that the government can provide a service as well as our workforce can. This belief comes mostly from experience (the most well documented example being the railroad services of the 1800s). Considering how the nordic states are cutting back their tax rates and their welfare, I'd have to say that they're starting to agree that a government service isn't as effective as a business mostly due to incentives of government being non-existent and incentives of business being providing the best possible service (unless a monopoly exists).
@brian, look at "Where in the world is it easiest to get rich?" from TedX. Scandinavia, has most rich persons per 1 capita and it's easiest to go from rags to riches!
Otherwise yes I agree, of course one can complain about taxes like this channel, ignoring what you get from those which to be fair has to be counted all together.
@Donald Smith
The Average middle class American:
Makes $59,000 in Income
Is taxed -11,000
Has $48,000
Pays for Healthcare -7,500
Has $40,500
Over the course of a 25 year long career, pays off -1,500 in Student Debt
Has $39,000 after healthcare and education
The Average middle class Swede
Makes $62,000 in Income
Is taxed -32,000
Has $30,000
Pays medical Deductible -1,200
Has $29,000 after Healthcare and education
I know which one I would want.
To make it clear , Finland is the only nordic country where terms negotiated by the unions are applied (in most cases) to all, also those who aren’t part of those unions. In other words, with the exception of Finland, the nordic countries have absolutely nothing even resembling a minimum wage.
Also, of the nordic countries Finland has the most regulated labour markets and the highest taxes. Finland also ”just happens” to be behind other nordic countries in almost everything; unemployment, labour market participation, GDP growth, real income growth etc.
Cheers from Finland!
So, what you said about Sweden has more taxes thus makes less money in the end is overlooking how much we Americans have to pay on:
healthcare, transit, education, maternal leave, retirement ect.
Also Scandinavian governments have a much higher approval rating.
Exactly. Nobody cares about how much money you have because a large amount of that money is spent on essential services, which are provided without cost after taxes have been paid.
American Healthcare could be less expensive if it was a freer market (nowadays its a government-private mixed abomination)
Me being Swedish:
:)
sorry i dont speak arabic, can you translate?
@@8jijjoo126 I'm a translator from swedistan and he said "please rape our women"
@@brokeindio5072 Islamophobe! It's not rape if it's not by a straight white man.
Me being finnish
Giv us Skåne tilbage >:c
I shared this to someone who tired to use "Scandinavian socialism" in an argument, and he comes back at it as "this video is just disinformation"
Because it is
@@spilltea4241 what is the disinformation ? I'm from Denmark and don't really see the disinformation, except Finland is not a Scandinavian country, something Americans will never learn left or right wing
One thing I stuggle with as a libertarian is when people mention the norwegian oil fund. The norwegian government owns all the land that has oil. Private companies drill the oil, but gets taxed heavily. The government then put the money into an oil fund. The government only uses intrest from the fund. This seems to be a good use of government. How do I respond to this? Can libertarians agree with this, or do we have to be against this?
Okay well 1. Libertarians differ in belief ALL THE TIME so don't throw away the label ;) 2. If we split libertarians in half we'd have Consequencial and Ethical libertarians. Ethical believe in peaceful voluntaryism and are anti-coercion and force. From an Ethical Lib view this is DEFINITELY immoral but consequencailists could argue either way. I'd have to do more research on the subject but I'm not a fan :)
Sounds like an economic conflict of interest to me.
@@christianhinojosa848 Thanks for the info :D
Control of trillion dollar funds by a government that can`t run social security efficiently ffs. What do you think will happen? Also, taxing specific companies higher than others is almost impossible in USA because it is a country of rule of law, and ``for the better of the people`` is not a valid response when people ask why they are taxed twice or thrice more than a firm in another sector. These pseudo-socialist countries are extremely fast in making and passing laws, effectively ratifying their mistakes before they become gangrenous. Government of USA tries to represent all her 325m+ citizens equally,so it is cumbersome, slow, and inefficient. Just like the USSR, and China. central planning cannot work in large states that span through a continent, but it seems that a socialist-capitalist hybrid society can be stable at least for a couple of decades, but as you can see in Europe, people are not happy at all, there are riots in some countries and people show overt dissent to the government in others.
So, no, such a system cannot work in a country as diverse as USA, and it works in Norway only for now, as problems that cannot be solved by central planning will arise, eventually. A libertarian should know this more than anyone else...
@Jan Kristian why do you think it seems like a good use of government? What is the state spending that money on? Do you think they are doing a better job of spending that money than the oil companies would? In general, I would say a core tenet of libertarians is the belief that private individuals and companies will spend their own money more wisely than those of the state. Consider all the money spent on the bureaucracy such as managing the fund and paying for state employees salaries.
That money should be kept and spent by the oil companies as they see it fit. They would spend it on new innovations, expansion and help reduce costs. And if I'm not mistaken Norway pays much higher costs in terms of oil and energy. Oil is used to power every other industry, so it stands to reason, that this scheme probably helps increase the cost of everything in Norway. If you think I'm wrong, feel free to correct me.
Keep in mind, most of the scandinavian nations (with the notable exception of Sweden) are part of NATO. Which means they dont have to spend a considerable portion of their GDP on defense. Their security interests are assured by the strong arm of NATO, ie the US and UK.
In addition, 80% of all medical innovations and research are produced here in the US, precisely because our healthcare system hasnt been socialized. Innovations which we gladly market to the whole world
Youre welcome, scandinavia
ironically the same people clamoring for socialism in the US are the same ones harping on about cutting military spending despite it being a meager fraction of spending compared to healthcare and welfare etc. We really should cut back and let those countries fend for themselves. I would love to see how great their socialist models work then
@@tacticalrants8559 "cutting military spending despite it being a meager fraction of spending compared to healthcare and welfare"
media.nationalpriorities.org/uploads/discretionary_spending_pie%2C_2015_enacted.png
Nellsism Where are you getting this 80 percent number from?
Thank you so much for this video, so annoyed by americans telling me that my country is socalist when we rank higher on the ease of doing buisness index than the united states, we are actually in a sense more capitalistic than the united states.
What country do you live in? If you don't mind me asking.
It comes from all the republicans here and propaganda that Taxes = Socialism.
Its just a trigger word to make people go blind with rage when anyone wants to increase taxes for any reason.
@@eragon78 eh, Democratic senators were the ones pointing towards the Nordic countries and saying how they're "socialist successes." Like with most things in the US, both parties have a role in this.
@@Blu_Jay07 Half of democrats are just republicans when it comes to policy but with a "D" by their name.
So yea, the Democrats are pretty stupid on this front too, but theyre hardly representative of actually left wing beliefs. Theyre figureheads for corporations and are weak when it comes to actual progressive issues.
But yea, both parties do tend to screw it up youre right.
well scandinavia has a socalist welfare system.
I love how you guys used the portrayal of Norway with a stereotypical Norwegian Black Metal artist. Absolute perfection lmao
too bad the video is garbage
'Is it socialism?' would depend on one's theory of socialism. Technically by Marxist theory this does qualify as socialism but not of a Marxist variety. It's what Marx and Engels called 'Bourgeois Socialism' wherein productive relations remain capitalist but the problems therein are alleviated through social welfare. So it really depends on where you are coming from when you say something is 'socialist'.
@Alfa&Omega 00000 semantics
@thunder key idk if I'm missinterpreting what you're trying to say, but social democracy is still socialism. It's a type of socialism, just how Marxism is a type of socialism. It isn't any more right or wrong to call either social democracy or marxism socialism, they both are.
@@ludde12345678950 I politely disagree, as Marxism advocates to go against Capitalism. A Social Democracy still values free markets and corporate powers. That is simply not Socialism.
@@ludde12345678950 Free market capitalism with a strong social safety net (social democracy) is not Socialism.
It is however the last stop before you reach the realm of Socialists.
Social democrats hate Socialists, they even kill prominent Marxists (Rosa Luxembourg)
@@Javier-rl1of +1
1:50 dude you've got to deduce healthcare and education spending from the US take home. If not your graph is just dishonest.
That would be pretty arbitrary, and not how international income comparisons are made. But also... I'd recommend this:
ua-cam.com/video/jq3vVbdgMuQ/v-deo.html
@@FEEonline It absolutely is how international income comparisons are made. Purchasing power is an obvious one, but healthcare and education as OP said also factors in. Earning more liquid money in the US but still paying immensly more for education, and running the risk of massive costs for any and all medical problems comparatively sets the benefit of that away quickly. Just raw liquid income is very nonsensical to compare, you need to also mention financial/welfare security in the sense that I listed above.
@@chrisboelens2640 I didn't say it wasn't worth talking about in terms of standards of living, but it is not how we compare income in an apples to apples way, because it adds a ton of arbitrary complexity.
If you're going to chart per capita, PPP income, you chart that, not that plus or minus a bunch of expenses and transfers that allow you to make the data look better or worse.
@@FEEonline Bruh, if you are actually doing international income comparisons, then start with the average income of a person in each country instead of using the same number. Otherwise, you're just comparing tax rates, not income. 51k USD in the US is 8k higher than the median income in the USA, but only average in Norway.
@@TheCodeOfArt average income comparisons have to be adjusted for purchasing power and standard of living.
When you do that, you get this.
fee.org/articles/most-of-europe-is-a-lot-poorer-than-most-of-the-united-states/
fee.org/articles/the-poorest-20-of-americans-are-richer-than-most-nations-of-europe/
scandinavian countries are social democracies which means they aren't even socialist. I know I know social democracy and democratic socialism sound similiar but they are not the same thing. Democratic socialism is socialist but social democracy is a free market economy but with adjustments that make it easier for people to live.
You said its not soicalist but then you claimed it's soicalist 🤔
Good good! You pointed out some excellent legislation aspects here. Also, not only do they tax higher working citizens more, they smartly redistribute the taxes to pay for community benefiting services like free healthcare and education.
YES, compared to the US thier citizens actually make less after deducting taxes. However healthcare and education are included in thier taxes while ours are not. When you readjust for the added in cost of insurance and education, the Scandinavian counties tie or come out ahead
They don't, actually. But that's been a point I have already replied to on these threads more than once.
Actually, um, and this is where we get to the fun bit about a person's accepted trusted sources, I believe they DO.
I would love to see your sources on the matter, you know, besides the links hosted by, you know, yourself (which also makes them naturally implicitly biased, just, btw)
Furthermore, after reading some of those articles themselves, Scananavian Socialism/Capitalism IS what we're talking about when we say Democratic Socialism. Socialization at it's heart is community (government, central, ect) owned and run programs, sometimes outside of a free market completely.
You CAN, and most frequently, have both. You have have socialised healthcare but free market t-shirts. You can have a socialised education AND a corresponding free market education system in the same nation-state.
China has free markets within it's own boarders and the US has a Socialised military.
Good, strong, welfare programs that universally cover a population IS also a form of socialism in its own context. Singapore is a great example of this. It is simultaneously one of the MOST free markets in the world, but also heavily Socialised to the point housing is almost entirely controlled by the state and given it one of the lowest homeless populations by percentage in the world.
Yes, Scandinavian countries are free market Capitalists. Yes, they are also ideal democratic socialists. They are both because they are a MIXED system, the best of both worlds while meditating the negatives of both
I'm not having this conversation again with you.
@@FEEonline dude, ALL your cited sources at the bottom of your video discription.... Are your own articles
I mean, big brain moves, it's hard for people to tell you you're wrong when the only one you're talking to is yourself, but
At least PRETEND that you acknowledge that there's valid points to counter-arguments against your agenda
@@legendcat8913 and if you actually read those articles, you'd find they overwhelmingly cite academic sources, data collected by governments and other third party agencies with no connection to FEE, and original research. Some of which are written by folks who have studied these issues extensively themselves, many of which are also republished from other places.
this animator needs his own channel.
He does it's called freedomtoons
ALL HAIL SEAMUS COUGHLIN REGARDLESS OF HIS POLITICAL LEANINGS!
Scandinavia Denmark, Norway and Sweden.
Nordic contrys: Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Finland and Island.
Nordic contrys: Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Finland and Island PLUS Greenland, the Faroe Islands and Áland
A bit of a weakness here: you argue first that ‘They used to have far higher tax rates but they’ve been trimming down’ and then you argue ‘Ah but their GDP has been decreasing recently’. This would make it sound like the high tax rates were great for their GDP but now they are getting less social-democratic their GDP is decreasing...
You should mention that these are on different time scales, and also that in the wide view over the last few centuries, the Nordic countries have done so well because they took classical liberal and free market values on board in the earlier 19th century - with Norway booming more after independence and further after oil was discovered. And honestly the reasons for the recent GDP per capita decrease are very complex and not very large, so much as oscillations dependent on complicated interactions with the global market. I wouldn’t even raise this point tbh.
"it's negotiated industry to industry, between unions and businesses usually"
*HIGH PITCHED SYNDICALIST SCREECHING*
Well said. However, your argument leaves out some key points. Number one, the taxes in Scandinavian countries may be higher, and their take home pay lower. However, They get a lot for their taxes. Their government does pay for their people's healthcare, higher education, and child care. All of these would be expenses that people would have to pay out of pocket for. As a result depending on how much a person made individually, some people may or may not be able to afford these things. It's a trade-off. Number two, any country that invests heavily in the education of its citizens from the highest class to the lowest class will do better. The reason for this is that education is the gateway out of poverty. The more educated citizens are the more productive they can be. More productivity means more wealth. This is true anywhere (even in the US).
1. The Nordic model isn't socialist it's social democracy which is basically socialism in a capitalist framework. You have to have the means of production seized by government to be socialist.
2. Even if they've had to cut back on safety net funding they are still much better off than the average American because those benefits are still enough to this day to give people a decent amount of living.
3. Maybe the poverty rate can't be measured statistically but it's clear that their poverty isn't even close to ours. All of the schools are all
funded the same way so all kids including rich kids get the same level and funding of education unlike the US. They make it so that everyone uses and is invested in the school system and they kick our asses in education. In fact our education rating is ranked amongst those in developing countries so that's scary. Also all of those people who are in poverty still get all of the benefits of those safety nets so even though they may be in poverty they still have things like free healthcare to get them by while people in poverty in the US fend for themselves.
4. So just to save argument let's say that Americans do make 10 grand more than Nordic countries. You're not including all the safety nets they get in return for those taxes (Free healthcare and pre-k-college, daycare assistance, stipends for college, etc. All of those things cost way beyond 10 grand in a year if an American had all of those safety nets and that's not including all of them.
5. GDP per capita may be lower but their quality of life is much more better than ours. If you look at the top 10 countries that are ranked to have the best quality of life all Nordic countries are in the top 10 while the US is not.
6. This point isn't relevant based on the fact that they have a living wage at the end of the day and how government mandates it is irrelevant as long as it's being mandated.
7. You guys always say that all of these problems can be solved without government mandates or that "charity will fix it." but those aren't actual solutions to the problem of inequality. People have no incentive to be charitable and charity and volunteering can only go so far and when we're talking about funding a whole country and their needs bases on a voluntary system then that is simply basing your economic beliefs on theory and not practices that were already done in not only US history but world history. 1. If that system worked then why isn't there at least one country that has successfully solved the issue of poverty or inequality via laissez faire capitalism or capitalism with little to no regulations for safety nets and 2. We had the same system you advocate for for over 145 years in this country and it failed us hence why the government and people like FDR stepped in. If we want everyone to benefit off of capitalism then there has to be guaranteed opportunity for all and not just the billionaire class. Without workers there would be no CEOs or corporations. There would be no capitalism in general. We're not trying to take away property rights we're just asking to give workers security and oppurtunity. Another person's right the greed does not trump someone's right to life and Liberty. If we had a system where everyone was being productive in society and weren't basing majority of their time worrying about bills then people would be happier and more wealthier and free financially and individually.
"I believe that all people, should be born into a world that values them not for their utility but their humanity. I believe in a world where a human being means to be free from cruelty and exploration. I believe in a world where one person's right to greed does not outweigh another person's right to freedom or to life or to happiness. I believe in a world where everyone is entitled to everything they need to live and to prosper and to be happy, not as a right earned through labor but as a right of their birth!" TJ Kirk
2:36
*sigh* (starts playing “Twilight of the thunder God”)
I think this one is even more on point: ua-cam.com/video/CZ_VFJn2kJM/v-deo.html
Okay so Im from Finland and let me tell you about the taxes. Lets say someone makes 150k € per year in Finland. Theres 37% tax for making 150k € in a year. BUT that’s not it. Then there’s regional taxes, which in the capital, Helsinki are 16%. So if you live in Helsinki and you make 150k € in a year, out of that 150k 53% of it is taken away. Thats crazy!!
That's horrible.
Yes and we don't get anything quality in exchange. Schools are bad, Finland's PISA ranking is decreasing, and public healthcare sucks with extreme waiting times, rationing, and death panels. Majority of people in Finland actually are buying private healthcare insurances or getting them from their employers. If anybody asks me, I would cut Finland's tax rates to the bare minimum and stopped all the socialist welfare.
Disagree with a lot of things in this video, starting at around 1:20
1:20 - Yes, its quite useless to compare poverty rates from nation to nation using the different poverty lines, but they are useful at showing the level of inequality in a country. The US having a high disposable income but high % of their population below their poverty line shows that they are very unequal - this shows in other statistics too.
The USA’s GINI Coefficient, one of the standard ways of measuring inequality (where 0 means a nation is perfectly equal and 1 meaning a nation is absolutely unequal) is 0.45 compare that with Scandinavian nations with Norway at 0.26, Sweden at 0.24, Finland at 0.27, Denmark at 0.29, and Iceland at 0.28.
worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/gini-coefficient-by-country
1:30 - The World Bank has released data on poverty rates worldwide as there are ways of measuring international poverty, for example the Poverty headcount ratio at $1.90 a day.
Every Scandinavian nation has either 0.1% or 0.2% of its population living under $1.90 a day, its similar across Western Europe. Compare that with the USA where a significantly higher 1.2% live under $1.90 a day; thats on par with Bulgaria at 1.3%, Bhutan at 1.5%, and Costa Rica at 1.4%.
data.worldbank.org/indicator/SI.POV.DDAY (From the World Bank)
2:09 Norway’s high GDP Per Capita is not higher than the USA’s just because of its petroleum reserves. Its a lot more complicated - for example, Norway is one of the most productive nations in the OECD, productivity means wages are higher. Another reason why wages are higher (this is also linked with productivity) is because Norway have strong workers rights protections which drive up labour costs and wages.
data.oecd.org/lprdty/gdp-per-hour-worked.htm
time.com/4621185/worker-productivity-countries/
smallbusinessprices.co.uk/workers-rights-index/
2:13 - This is a massive exaggeration. Norway’s GDP Per Capita decreased slightly in the late 2000s, I wonder why that was? Remember the 2008 Financial Crisis and the worldwide recession that followed? The exact same thing happened to the USA. Norway’s GDP Per Capita increased from $87,413 in 2011 to $92,556 in 2019.
tradingeconomics.com/norway/gdp-per-capita
2:20 - It is irrelevant whether the Government sets the minimum wage.
There are loads of other reasons why Scandinavian nations perform better than the USA on international rankings, they have much better education systems and rank higher in healthcare (and they are not crippled by medical costs).
worldtop20.org/worldbesteducationsystem - Finland, Denmark, Norway, and Sweden all rank higher than the US in Education
www.who.int/healthinfo/paper30.pdf?ua=1 - Norway, Iceland, Sweden and Finland all rank higher than the US in Healthcare
To finish all Scandinavian nations rank higher than the USA in HDI (Human Development Index), HDI measures GNI (Gross National Income) Per Capita, Literacy Rate, and Life Expectancy.
Norway ranks 1 in the world and Sweden and Iceland are also in the top 10. Finland is at 12 and the USA is at a lower 15.
hdr.undp.org/en/content/2019-human-development-index-ranking
And would you say that equality of outcome is a good thing?
Red. equality of outcome isn’t the same as equality of opportunity
@@red.4712 Its not equality of outcome. Nobody is arguing that the index should be 0. But a very very high index is ALSO bad, and actually worse.
Its a balancing act. An Index of 0.2 to 0.3 seems about Ideal. The US is about double that of the rest of the developed world.
All the wealth in the US pools to the top few percent of earners. The country as a whole may be rich, but the average person does not see most of that wealth.
Whats important when measuring the health of a society is the health of the people in that society. If only a small fraction of the population is actually seeing the wealth that the country generates, then only a small number of people in that country are feeling the full benefits of that wealth.
This is why lower indexes tend to be better as long as they arent TOO low. There is still a balance of course since you still need higher earnings to incentivize people to excel.
Bob: We need to be like Scandinavia!
Seamus: I'm about to ruin this man's career
-we need to be more like scadinavia
+scandinavia is not socialist
-but lets still adopt their policies
+BuT tHoSe ArE sOcIaLiSt PoLiCiEs
@@magnusorn7313 Exactly. These people are tards.
Magnús Örn Their policies would fall to shit here.
@@earthwax7946 only because of the corrupt unstable government that is incompetent at everything, just overthrow it, thats why you armed your citizens, yes? oh wait, you also created the largest military in human history...
@@magnusorn7313 as well as brain washed citizens who actually buy into the idea that getting fucked on a regular basis is just american freedom or some nonsense.
I don't like the wage comparison, becuase in the US I have to pay about 1400 a year in insurance, and 3600 in student loan payments which birngs it a lot closer.
Most employers cover the required health insurance though, and the student loan payments are no one's fault except your own (they are not a required payment, unlike insurance).
@@DBArtsCreators I don't know how it works at other companies but my employer takes about 116 out of my pay checks every month to pay for my insurance. Doesn't feel much different than a tax to me.
@@DBArtsCreators How is his student loan his fault?
@@JeremyPezmanTaylor
It's about triple that out of pocket,a nd without the monthly payments.
Quite a bit different than a tax considering you can opt out of the insurance for most companies (and it only because an offense to not have health insurance with ObamaCare, and that is something we've been trying to repeal).
Regardless, it is not a tax. A tax is taken out by the government and is outside on your control on whether or not to pay.
@@kalsabrain1370
He decided to go to college, and thus decided to take out a student loan (or his parents made the decision, in which case he has my condolences. It was still a privately-made choice though, not something forced on him by the government).
You don't need to go to college to get a job. If you training in a vocation from a vocational high school (most of which are free public schools), or look for a trade to apprentice in (which is paid education basically - includes carpentry, electrical, plumping, etc), you can get a job in something else. If you also really want a higher education - go to a library, study what you want for their cheap to free prices, and PROVE what you know to potential employers (as most college degrees are worthless - few things they offer are on the level of surgery and teaching).
I love how horn helmets are EVERYWHERE.
Not to mention in Finlands case, their happiness score doesn’t explain everything. They have this unique cultural norm that state that no matter how you feel in life, you must always say your happy. It’s their way of saving face. In other words, those miserable people in the population will say they are happy regardless of their situation.
Lies
not true Finland is amazing objectively
Seeing the Metalhead was an accurate description of Norway.
0:28-The happiness level can't be argued!!
If peoples in Scandinavia have a happier lifestyle with their system,then it IS better!!
But their system isn't better. Saying because they are happier means their system is better is just stupid as happiness is highly subjective not to mention other potential variables that have nothing to do with the system and the people and culture and so on.
@@kordellswoffer1520
good system=better working country=better living conditions=more happiness
THAT'S IT!
@@kordellswoffer1520 Do you have any arguments for why their system isn’t better?
@@twinleaf3076 any arguments for it being better.
@@kordellswoffer1520
But the system IS better though.
I would've preferred avatars as nightwish as Finland, sabaton as Sweden, Dimmu Borjir as Norway, and Denmark as the south park troll Danish dance.
I know you included his name in the credits, but I feel like you should also include a link to Seamus' channel, Freedom Toons as well.
Still a good video tho
Sweden's strong public finances, sound banking system, political stability and well-performing economy make it a robust place to run a business. Sweden boasts excellent infrastructure through extensive public investments. ... It is also one of the top countries in the world in terms of R&D investments, in relation to GDP.
How is that a FREE Healthcare when they're PAYING for it through Taxes?
For youngsters, people studying, people unemployed, and people retired - for all of them it is FREE
in USA these same people would not get the same level of medical care, unless they had paid into the system - and that is pretty hard for a youngster, student or a unemployed
The truth is the horns weren’t on the helmets. Vikings actually had horns, and the helmets had holes in them for the Viking horns to go through. This held the helmet in place and looked cool too!
You misplaced Finland and Norway, Finland is the one digging hard rock
I agree. Let's be more like Sweden:
No federal minimum wage
Unrestricted school choice
Privatized social security
Tightly controlled immigration
A culturally homogeneous population
Minimal industrial regulation
I'm down. :P
@Alfa&Omega 00000 technically it's not free, it's just paid for by everyone in the country rather than just yourself. So you need to help pay for the medical bill of the guy that crashed his car into your house :P.
@Alfa&Omega 00000 no...that's not how my example works. That's not how any of this works. I think that people should pay for their own expenses. This system of making it free just makes it so that everyone else pays for your expenses, which I think is stupid
@@blegher amen, not everybody crashes a car into other peoples houses haha
@@blegher minimal indudtrial regulations??
@@blegher i doubt you live on this planet, you must be deprived of oxygen on the moon somewhere
1:04 "They've been trimming back both their social programs and their levels of Taxation since the 1990's"
Hmm I wonder what happened in 1991..
Are you saying that the Nordic countries began adopting more conservative fiscal policies as a direct result of Sweden winning Eurovision in 1991? 🤔😂
No major socialist countries collapsed in that period so I can't see what's going on.
also in scandinavia it's socially taboo to say that you're unhappy with A) your life B) The country
It is?
The two worst things about this video:
1. It’s so fucking biased
2. UA-cam’s algorithm really shoved it in my face
I feel like Bob is a major strawman.
Just a feeling.
He should go ice fishing.
Yeah, thank you. This vid is pretty cringe.
I don't think so. I think Bob is a caricature, yes, but all the points he's brought up are points that have been brought up when I've talked to people in favour of swedish socialism before.
@@hufflepufflez3293 I will admit that when a lot of people talk about the issue they take a very dumbed down view of it. If anything the video seems like low hanging fruit instead of the socialist light version which wants to make college cheaper based on grades and degrees.
So a doctor doesn't have to spend 8 years gathering dept and another 25 years screwing over patients in order to pay off the dept. Should it be free? No. But it shouldn't be as expensive either.
Anti trust laws and some level of citizens deciding where their tax dollars go would be a great start to the discussion instead of the furthest left argument of "Everything is free and you don't own anything."
It would be like if people on the left only argued against religious zealots who are young earth creationist and believe their great grandparents rode dinosaurs.
@@dudeistpreist5721 hey man the video was supposed to be comical I understand why see it as a bit cringe in its presentation but it still has good points about people’s thoughts on “Nordic socialism” which in reality the Nordic government have very big social nets/welfare policies that is backed and paid for by their capitalist economy. Not a socialist planned economy.
Wait finland doesnt have a minimum wage, well we kinda do but it just say that workers have right to "fair compensation for their work"
So you have no minimum wage
@@seanrobinson2270 they have one its just not government mandated, instead it democratically decided without the government involvement, which is kind of a true and kind of false
depending on how you define government this is mart of it as its a democratic institution that everyone is part of but eh
@@magnusorn7313 if it is not illegal for me to employ someone at any wage then there is no minimum wage, is it illegal?
@@seanrobinson2270 minimum wage is not defined on the bases of legality
try again
@@seanrobinson2270 "the lowest wage permitted by law or by a special agreement"
unions are a form of special agreement
People who are for socialism are like free healthcare and education but none of them consider the taxes
When the US government shows it can responsibly use money and political power, I might trust it to expand social programs
Vickings talking about pillaging gold from an English church "Its Free!"
AND THEY DON’T LET MINORITIES IN.
Where can I find the source on Norway gdp decline?
Yes, they have market freedom. That’s the capitalist part. The social part is that a lot of tax from this market freedom goes to help the people. This might stimulate people to get a job and pay tax themselves. If public college didn’t cost like just 200$ a year (and at least in Norway you can get great conditions on student loans from a government fund, which will also give you like 40% of your loan for free if you graduate), fewer people would get a degree and start earning lots of money to pay tax from. This tax can help the next generation. Yes you have people that uses the system for their advantage, but you also have a lot of people that use the system to get success. If you really want to look at this in a cold way, you could say: if someone got cheap healthcare, they could continue working and pay taxes and it would be worth it if everybody did this. But if the worker died because of expensive healthcare, they couldn’t pay taxes anymore. Healthy people make money for the government so the government can pay people that are struggling with things like bad health or no education. But we still almost have the market freedom of the US. It benefits everyone. People feel free and people get help. Win-win. Except if you get insanely rich, then you feel like you’ve paid enough tax, get bitter and move to a country with lower/no taxation of accumulated wealth and people either look at you as a traitor or they understand.
0:43🤘🏻🇳🇴 Norway🤘🏻
Hei, snakker du Norsk?!
How do you dare to use FACTS, REASON and COMMON SENSE in an argument!
Reality is an attack, and your facts are insults!!! REEEEEEEEEE!
Way better than their funder: Prager U
@Jonathan Williams yes. Look at the facebook page.
Brit living in Norway atm. I'm here because even after the 40% tax i still earn more than twice what I would in the UK. Pretty sure it's cos of the oil, not socialism. I've also worked/lived in Finland and Sweden and the quality of life for most people is incredibly high when compared with most of Europe and probably the US too. Its not really the tax that gets you its more just the cost of living that really gets you. I just spent about $60 on three days shopping, not fancy stuff either, if I wasn't working in a restaurant the trip would probably come to less of a net gain, financially speaking.
You think about earning more but you don't really think about the cost of living. It never matters how much you earn, but what you can get with it. In the end of the day you really aren't better off.
Not to mention that the entire population of Scandinavia is roughly equivalent to the population of California, about a tenth of the United States population.
And for this small population, they have IKEA, Volvo, Saab (defense), and a dozen other massive companies supporting them.
Please include LEGO ^^
What is your opinion on private prisons? I am under the opinion the prison ssystem should not be for profit because then you get the three strikes law that screws minor offenders for ever.
Not just that but they the lobby of the government for ever stricter laws mandatory minimums and people serve more time in private prisons then in public prisons even though they're supposed to give the same number of days off for good behavior
Jon Bilgutay the incentives are all messed up. Same with healthcare in many ways.
This is a way bigger conversation than is probably possible to have on this thread, but having produced a documentary about a rehabilitation program that was based out of a private prison in Texas, I think the private prison issue is often overblown and somewhat confused. First, they're a fairly small part of the overall prison system -- just 8.5% of inmates are in private facilities as of 2016. Secondly, the incentives that private prisons face are essentially the same as government-run prisons, and the lobbying mentioned above is also being done by public prison-workers' unions. Both get more funding on the basis of having more inmates in their facilities. Both operate based on rules set by the various state correctional departments, and obey edicts coming from politicians. Private prisons are also a little easier to shut down if they are poorly managed, since they're chartered by the state and can have those charters pretty easily rescinded (compared to a public facility). That makes them a little bit more accountable, in theory, than the public prisons.
The real problem here, in my view, is just not the nominally "private" quality of prisons in the US... it's the ludicrous number of criminal laws, and the draconian enforcement mechanisms like Mandatory Minimum Sentencing that came out of the drug war.
--Sean W. Malone
Director of Media
Do not confuse private for-profit prisons with free markets and capitalism. It is a monopoly with a 3rd party payer system. I would actually prefer private prisons if there was choice and control by those imprisoned. As it works now it is a way to funnel money to politician's friends as they insulate themselves from blame by saying (look it was a for-profit prison). It is also great anti-capitalist and prostate PR.
@@FEEonline I might not agree with everything you have to say on this channel, but damn do you guys present a great point without malice. The reason why I like this channel so much is because you take these topics that are often pumped up to be big hard-hitting left-right issues and bring in not just a rebuttal but nuance and understanding. Every media outlet has an agenda, but its how you present it that matters, and you guys have a great way of getting your point across that doesn't devolve into Fox News levels of outright lies. Keep up the good work.
Also, your movie reviews/breakdowns are a nice new addition. I hope to see more of them in the future.
Higher everything (just don't mention the suicide rate).
Actually the suicide rate is almost equal (Sweden 13.8 vs U.S 13.7 per 100,000) or lower
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate
Bob doesn't want other people to be happier. Bob wants the free stuff.
Mate that Norwegian black metal reference was golden.
Norway is cool, but no way more metal fans than Finland
Good another soapbox. Speaking of unions, can you make a video about them? Sure they have problems here but I wouldn’t mind joining one if they acted more like they do in Nordic countries.
The social programs here are a bunch of jokes. As for the "happiness"; it derives from culture and attitude. We shouldn't be happy. I wish we were more discontent about shit we shouldn't have to put up with.
Milligram At least nobody goes bankrupt because of medical debt in Scandinavia. Also, having some of the lowest violent crime rates in the world and cheap college must be nice.
@@nicolasleroux5302 I would love to make a bargain with the left of this country and get them their "free" health care and even college but cut down on regulation, employment protection and all the useless shit the state engages in.
@@nicolasleroux5302 the low crime rate is a result of the population being majority european descent. same is true for areas with majority european descent in USA, Canada, South America (Argentina, Chile and some areas of Brasil).
Also "cheap" college is bullshit. The majority of college courses need to be eliminated as they are completely useless. It costs a lot let and has a much better return on investment if they spent money on skills based training.
If anything the only reason the nordic model hasn't completely fallen apart yet is because they are (at least for now) still majority european descent.
Tactical Rants I guess Ukraine, Serbia and Greece don’t count on that population being mostly european descent stat eh? Where’s the link between the 2 lol?
Tactical Rants the reasons point more to economics seeing how poor and unstable those countries are. If you can’t pay cops then you can’t catch criminals
if you are wondering why Finland is mentioned alongside scandinavian countries, it's because of the Nordic model countries use, which includes free market with the robust Welfare system, but that model, however like other economic models, it isn't immune to debt though.
That's Social Democracy, not Democratic Socialism. Social Democracy is the Norm of the left in the US nowadays. Also I'm a Hoppean Anarcho-Capitalist myself.
It's not really true to say Norway has been cutting down on social programs since the 90's. They have actually expanded the reach of most programs, but have lowered costs by reducing administration costs.
He was referring to Denmark.
Well, if you get the same wage in Sweden you may get less money, but the money you get is worth more to you because people in Sweden value it more - things are cheaper in Sweden.
and overall life is, in my eyes, better in sweden.
Exactly. American's say that Nordics are losers because they pay high tax but they completely ignore their $5 million hospital bills and terrible wages to begin with.
but, where are they going on that boat
Scandinavia or USA?
(I think Scandinavia because they were on before the debunking and he said "we need to be more like Scandinavia!"
What is the song used in this video?
Stateless Nations Are Better Than Nation States, Because They:
*Preserve The Culture Of The Nation
*Prevents Bad Multiculturalism
*Preserve The Character And The Design Of The Nations' Cities
im a bit skeptical on your claims but mostly so on the last one, how does that work?
A:Socialism never works
B: Norway is socialist and they're doing great
A:they're not socialist they're capitalist countries with strong welfare policies
B:then let's adopt those policies
A:not that's socialism
High income tax and low business tax?
Sounds like socialism to me.
@@genghiskhan5701 forgot to factor in the VAT and that the income tax is only high in the higher brackets
trimmed back social programs are still social programs. its seems your facts show that social programs like heathcare and higher education are a good thing in moderation not that we are better off without them like you seem to conclude.
john harrison As a socdem I find this kind of argument used in the video frustrating because it’s pretty much planting a premise I agree with (excessive social programs are not good) and then takes it to another extreme.
Yes, I know modern social democracy isn’t a heavy welfare state and they’ve trimmed down on the programs. That’s literally what I an asking for.
@@connorchristian5455 another problem is that they dont have to pay for military, the US is responsible for their protection. Thats actually in my opinion the best argument for the US lowering their military; why should we pay so that everybody else we are allied with doesnt have to
They're cutting off more, and more as time goes on. His argument is that eventually, all of the programs will be gone.
Jaron Marles But... What's the reason for this kind of determinism?
@Donald Smith He wasn't talking about expenses. He was saying that Nordic countries are offering less social programs as time goes on. That's what he means by "trimmed down".
i was just trying to find educational videos on otter but somehow got here instead
anyone know where i can learn more about sea otters?
would you consider otters socialist?
Wait, so if we go with the Scandinavian model we get viking horns? I'm sold, yep, pucker up, Saxony, prepare to get raided.
Should that not have been "pucker up, Saxony, prepare to get _sacked_"?
You can’t genuinely compare tax rates between the two countries while leaving out the benefits you get in return vs the cost Americans pay for those same services out-of-pocket.
A real comparison would be Swedish tax rates vs American tax rates *plus* student loan debt, medical debt, insurance premiums, deductibles, the cost of childcare, etc., not to mention the lack of financial security for American mothers on unpaid leave or workers who have to take time off for medical emergencies without compensation.
If you’re going to compare real take-home-pay, do it comprehensively.
He knows but this video is meant to manipulate
Viking nerver have horns on ther helmet
Check out big brain at Chad.
ua-cam.com/video/Hrm-rPSCIBw/v-deo.html
You've gotten drunk Seamus.
A. Poverty is relative because what matters is whether goods and services are affordable (which they are in those countries), not absolute as you claim
B. Poverty doesn't matter if you are satisfied with life as it is
C. I don't mind paying more taxes. This argument may make sense to some people but I think it's a reasonable price to pay to live in those countries where everything is paid for by the community in place of the individual.
D. The fact that the living wages are negotiated by companies and not the government does nothing to prove that it is a bad thing.
E. Who doesn't want cheaper healthcare, cheaper vacations, cheaper education, better maternal leave and a decent minimum wage? Not me certainly.
The point about the "Take home" amount of money is misleading. Yes, you are in theory left with more money in the US, but insurance costs way more, housing costs way more, electricity costs more, medication (even basic) costs way more, sudden expenses can put you in debt for even the rest of your life, EVEN if you have top tier insurance (which costs.. well, way way more). Childcare costs way more, education (private) costs way more (these two are monthly or yearly expenses that need to be mentioned, in the US), when in the Nordics, all free, in a way.
I found a video here on UA-cam that compared the US and Denmark on the amount of money you are ACTUALLY left with after all expenses, and guess who was left with more? DENMARK.
That's not true at all. The vast majority of goods and services cost *less* in the US than in Scandinavian countries. Health care is one of the only truly notable exceptions, but we've done several videos on why that is as well which would be worth checking out.
For example:
www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Denmark/United-States/Cost-of-living
Local purchasing power is 39% higher in the US than Denmark.
Utilities (garbage, water, electricity) cost 49% more in Denmark than the US.
The cost of a comparable car is 2z higher in Denmark than the US.
Rent is considerably higher. Groceries cost more. Clothes are much more expensive.
The list is pretty long. And this is true for most of Europe, actually.
So... Whatever other video you watched, probably didn't tell you the truth.
Also, it might be worth noting that a lot of the difference between total spending on health care isn't about policy, but about differences in culture and behavior among individuals.
sciencenordic.com/culture-denmark-forskerzonen/how-does-denmark-have-better-healthcare-than-the-us-for-less-money/1451158
Health care would cost Americans a lot less if we were (in general) less fat, had better diets, exercised more, drove cars a lot less, and so on.
@@FEEonline I went back to the video and I actually noticed it was based on their own spending compared to the average in Denmark. And as I do know prices, wages etc. widely change based on the state you're in in the US, I guess it's kind of hard to compare. In the context of wanting to move and because of that comparing, it would probably be best to compare by state and not the whole US.
@@FEEonline Yeah I know this actually, but it's still true that even giving birth can put you trough hard times financially. The US system charges for stupid stuff and unnecessarily much. Because they're allowed to.
@@FEEonline I wish I can bookmark comments.