great info, 1 con that could be converted to a pro.. haha my Lithium bank batteries have built in heaters so the BMS takes care of them when need to charge them. And it does work.. I am in Montreal, and when we leave for Florida in December it well under 32F. When on the road we love taking a lunch break warming up food, powering the Ac or heating system and pulling into over night stop and I can appreciate having all the comfort and all the power I need to get me though the night with out using a noisy generator. Yes I know if a heavy price tag but I did the instal my self with all the great rv solar vides out there. 1 more great PRO, you might to add is your not limited to camp grounds with hook ups. We now want to explore more and thats a big Pro for us who want to travel to more off grid locations, and having 100% sustainable renewable power. Lithium, prices have dropped in price. There are more and more brands are popping up and Epoch has some interesting products and pricing. Battle Born was the goto but if you shop around there are plenty now a days.
I feel in todays RV scenario there really is NO reason someone should be using Lead acid batteries instead of lithium, you can convert to lithium for a 3rd of the price of Battleborn and have a great set up. I bought 3 - 100AH Chens batteries from Amazon that have built in heaters and bluetooth connection to my phone and installed them in my C class after upgrading my BIM and switching a switch on my converter and through the app on my solar charge manager. I know each coach is different but the capacity difference I got from the lithium is astounding! Not even in the same game! I installed a 2K watt inverter with a remote switch and put the switch and a 110 outlet that is inverter only near the stairs inside the coach. This is great for anything I need to run 110 while traveling without having to start the generator. I used to "campgrounds with full hook ups camp only " before I got a Motorhome, now with the Motorhome it is a mix of boondocking and full hook ups. So that said it is nice to run the coffee maker in the morning or anytime we stop while traveling and not have to crank up the gen. We sometimes stop while traveling in a mall parking lot etc and make a quick meal, it is nice to run a fan instead of the gen and a/c etc. then get back on the road. My main point is the basic unreliability of the modern RV LOL, with all the possibilities of a break down of many systems, unexpected traffic jams or just a simple change of plans while traveling it is SO nice to know you have that little extra source of power if needed. The fridge could run 3 days from what I have and I can ad the furnace etc. The Chens batteries were torn apart and tested by Will on diy solar channel and they got a thumbs up from him. I don't have an unlimited budget so I chose them, HOWEVER, if money was no object I would have got the battleborn, just to be clear. At any rate if you have spent a big chunk of money on an RV, just a little more to get the lithium upgrade makes you RV purchase a WHOLE LOT more comfortable in my opinion. I am a retired Auto tech so I did all my own work and to me it isn't hard to do, some people might think different but there is a lot of info out there on this to follow. I think your video is spot on but I just wanted to share my input in case someone wanted to hear from a "self converter" out there. Please keep up the great videos my friend and happy camping to all.
Duane, thank you for another excellent video. We upgraded to lithium three years ago and have been extremely pleased. Our 2022 Winnebago came with a 12V compressor fridge. The lead acid batteries could not handle it if we boondocked for a single day. Even with new batteries. Every point you mentioned is spot on, including reasons not to make the investment. If we didn’t have a 12V fridge or if we spent most of our time hooked to shore power , we wouldn’t have made the change. We had Battle Born in our Winnebago and loved them. Last month we downsized to a new Entegra Class C and went to lithium after two trips. But, we gambled with Epoch batteries. Less than half the price, and so far so good. BattleBorn is still top shelf but I’ve read lots of positive reviews on the Epoch. Time will tell. Thank you for your videos and recommendations.
Hi Anthony. I'm so glad that lithium batteries have worked out so well for you. And you are right that 12 volt fridge/freezers require a LOT more battery power than people think when you aren't plugged in to shore power. I'm also glad to hear that Epoch batteries are working well for you so far. Thanks for mentioning them in your comment. Have lots of safe and happy travels in your Entegra Class C!
We have a small RV. Our lead /acid batteries last about 4yrs. I looked into cost /benefit ratio for us and it makes sense to stay with our setup. I don't have to change our electrical system, the batteries are a 1/4 the price, and we don't have any problem charging them with our solar system. I think you have to look how you use your electrical system and what makes sense for you.
I made the same cost analysis and came to the same conclusion for our motorhome. Switching to lithium batteries isn't for everyone. Thanks for watching!
Another great video Duane. This is a subject that one can get deep into the weeds explaining all the differences in battery types and technology, charging rates, wire sizing, converter types, Lithium (electric bicycles) Vs Lithium Iron Phosphate (RV) and such. Not to mention Solar recharging and converter recharging and the managing of both of those capabilities at the same time. Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries available for RVs can charge at a much higher (2 - 2.5 times) the amperage than Lead Acid type. Say in the neighborhood of 3-4 amps lead acid - Verses - 8-10 amps for a Lithium Iron Phosphate.. Lithium batteries can take that much higher charge amperage. That relates to the faster charging you mention. Keeping the conversation simple and generic, but yet informative, as you mention, it should prod an RV owner to do their own research and get educated before making any switch in RV battery technology.
Thanks for the positive feedback. You are so right that it's a subject that can get very involved quickly, especially when solar power is in the mix. But I just wanted this video to help RVers decide whether they really need lithium batteries or not.
Very informative video, Duane. I’m planning on replacing my 6v lead acid house batteries (with Lithium) when they no longer can maintain a charge. My new to me Safari Simba passed its prebuy inspection with these batteries and they seemed to be in good shape. I installed a self heating LiFePO4 (Lithium Iron Phosphate) battery in my van conversion, with the following results: Higher voltage (12.8v) which allowed the use of a 12v compressor fridge without activating the fridge’s low voltage cutoff. A ‘flatter’ voltage curve (ie higher voltage even when the battery was 90% discharged) Tested to -20C (-4F, I live in Canada) and was still able to discharge and charge. BTW, a lot of the negative hype about Lithium came from Lithium Polymer batteries (very different from Lithium Iron Phosphate) I personally wouldn’t hesitate to use them on my Class A, especially the self heating ones. They’re more expensive than the regular Li batteries, but well worth it IMHO.
Thanks for adding that information to the discussion on lithium batteries. They certainly have a lot of advantages to consider as you have experienced already. Have safe and happy travels in your Safari!
I remember with my old Airstream 23FB, running the heat run overnight would kill the batteries, and after a few times they had to be replaced. Most shops would replace them the first time only. One year we bought 5 pairs of replacements at about $100 each, $200+ for the pair. Li-ion may be expensive but in the long run less expensive.
Lead-acid batteries can't be quick charged do to the Peukert effect. nor discharged, it's efficiency get bad, the bigger the load, the less efficient they get. Also battery life is shorten if you discharge the battery beyond 50%. I have 3 - 100@ hr lithums in parallel in my Van. What a game changer! I keep them charged at about 90% to extend their life. (have solar on roof, DC-DC inverter, AC charger, and a small gas 800 watt inverter generator) It's nice to have some redundancy. Good Video, informative for all.
I always enjoy your videos! 🙂 Ok, I have a single AGM in my rv. Why can't I just replace the battery to a lithium using my existing lead acid charge controller? Ir seems to me I would benefit from the lighter weight of battery as you suggest, and even it won't hurt the lithium if I can't charge it up completely, I will still have more battery then AGM. Your thoughts, please? Thx
It's not a bad idea to replace your AGM battery with lithium instead. But always make sure to match the converter's charging capability with the specific lithium requirements for charging. If you do, your upgrade should go very smoothly.
Some converters ( chargers) do both with a dip switch. There is a different volt and amp value between AGM and Lithium thats the main reason. I would look into your brand and see if it an option. Or you could call your Rv brand manufacture and ask. If not it will add fee's to your battery swap.
Great video. It’s easy to get caught up with the whole solar/Lithium fad. It really does depend on your needs. Although I upgraded to two lithium batteries just because of the ability to go below fifty percent. From a capacity perspective way more than I need. But I don’t mind that.
Hi Mike. You make a good point. There are some good reasons why RVers who mostly stay in campgrounds might want to upgrade to lithium batteries including saving the extra weight and space that can be used for cargo, or the long lifespan, etc. But honestly, it's not something that everybody needs to run out and do just because others say that lithium is the only way to go. Thanks for watching and leaving a nice comment!
Hello. Thank you for this very instructable video. I have two questions for you: When installing lithium batteries, do the wiring need to be changed? I heard that you should not charge a lithium battery more than 80% of its capacity, is this a myth?
I'm not aware of any need for wiring changes when lithium batteries are installed but as I said in the video, it may call for replacing your RV converter to be sure that the charging capabilities are compatible with lithium batteries. And with the correct charger you can charge lithium batteries to 100%.
In addition to converter compatibility, I've heard lithium batteries can damage your alternator. I have a 2024 Jayco Whitehawk with a factory installed solar panel. What upgrades are needed to protect my truck?
Here is an RVing forum discussion that covers a lot of the technical information you need - www.irv2.com/forums/f87/alternator-burn-out-from-lithium-batteries-558284.html
The RV Geeks created a nice article about how to store lithium batteries in the winter. They provide a lot more information than I can include in this post. So here is the link for that article - www.thervgeeks.com/how-to-store-lithium-rv-batteries-for-winter/
Generally a good review. I would agree Lithium can be great, the key is cost and usage. You need LITHIUM IRON PHOSPHATE technology. There are other lithium chemistries that do have fire risk like many of the small rechargeable batteries for phones, devices and tools. Then you need a quality battery as well as external devices like chargers, converters, and alternators for that can manage lithium. So switching to Lithium is costly and involved. The cost goes well beyond the batteries No way is Lithium going to last 10 times longer. 3-5 probably. I use both, and am transitioning to Lithium in my boat, will also use it in an RV. However, it is only for those that need lots of power and plan to use it a lot. Also Battleborn is great, but overpriced. There are other options. Victron is the best for all the chargers and management devices
great info, 1 con that could be converted to a pro.. haha my Lithium bank batteries have built in heaters so the BMS takes care of them when need to charge them. And it does work.. I am in Montreal, and when we leave for Florida in December it well under 32F. When on the road we love taking a lunch break warming up food, powering the Ac or heating system and pulling into over night stop and I can appreciate having all the comfort and all the power I need to get me though the night with out using a noisy generator. Yes I know if a heavy price tag but I did the instal my self with all the great rv solar vides out there.
1 more great PRO, you might to add is your not limited to camp grounds with hook ups. We now want to explore more and thats a big Pro for us who want to travel to more off grid locations, and having 100% sustainable renewable power.
Lithium, prices have dropped in price. There are more and more brands are popping up and Epoch has some interesting products and pricing. Battle Born was the goto but if you shop around there are plenty now a days.
Thanks for the added points you made in this discussion. Have safe and happy RV travels!
I feel in todays RV scenario there really is NO reason someone should be using Lead acid batteries instead of lithium, you can convert to lithium for a 3rd of the price of Battleborn and have a great set up. I bought 3 - 100AH Chens batteries from Amazon that have built in heaters and bluetooth connection to my phone and installed them in my C class after upgrading my BIM and switching a switch on my converter and through the app on my solar charge manager.
I know each coach is different but the capacity difference I got from the lithium is astounding! Not even in the same game! I installed a 2K watt inverter with a remote switch and put the switch and a 110 outlet that is inverter only near the stairs inside the coach. This is great for anything I need to run 110 while traveling without having to start the generator.
I used to "campgrounds with full hook ups camp only " before I got a Motorhome, now with the Motorhome it is a mix of boondocking and full hook ups. So that said it is nice to run the coffee maker in the morning or anytime we stop while traveling and not have to crank up the gen. We sometimes stop while traveling in a mall parking lot etc and make a quick meal, it is nice to run a fan instead of the gen and a/c etc. then get back on the road.
My main point is the basic unreliability of the modern RV LOL, with all the possibilities of a break down of many systems, unexpected traffic jams or just a simple change of plans while traveling it is SO nice to know you have that little extra source of power if needed. The fridge could run 3 days from what I have and I can ad the furnace etc.
The Chens batteries were torn apart and tested by Will on diy solar channel and they got a thumbs up from him. I don't have an unlimited budget so I chose them, HOWEVER, if money was no object I would have got the battleborn, just to be clear. At any rate if you have spent a big chunk of money on an RV, just a little more to get the lithium upgrade makes you RV purchase a WHOLE LOT more comfortable in my opinion.
I am a retired Auto tech so I did all my own work and to me it isn't hard to do, some people might think different but there is a lot of info out there on this to follow. I think your video is spot on but I just wanted to share my input in case someone wanted to hear from a "self converter" out there. Please keep up the great videos my friend and happy camping to all.
Thanks for sharing your perspective and experience here Bill. I'm sure it will be helpful for others. Safe and happy travels to you!
Duane, thank you for another excellent video. We upgraded to lithium three years ago and have been extremely pleased.
Our 2022 Winnebago came with a 12V compressor fridge. The lead acid batteries could not handle it if we boondocked for a single day. Even with new batteries.
Every point you mentioned is spot on, including reasons not to make the investment. If we didn’t have a 12V fridge or if we spent most of our time hooked to shore power , we wouldn’t have made the change.
We had Battle Born in our Winnebago and loved them.
Last month we downsized to a new Entegra Class C and went to lithium after two trips. But, we gambled with Epoch batteries. Less than half the price, and so far so good. BattleBorn is still top shelf but I’ve read lots of positive reviews on the Epoch. Time will tell.
Thank you for your videos and recommendations.
Hi Anthony. I'm so glad that lithium batteries have worked out so well for you. And you are right that 12 volt fridge/freezers require a LOT more battery power than people think when you aren't plugged in to shore power. I'm also glad to hear that Epoch batteries are working well for you so far. Thanks for mentioning them in your comment. Have lots of safe and happy travels in your Entegra Class C!
We have a small RV. Our lead /acid batteries last about 4yrs. I looked into cost /benefit ratio for us and it makes sense to stay with our setup. I don't have to change our electrical system, the batteries are a 1/4 the price, and we don't have any problem charging them with our solar system. I think you have to look how you use your electrical system and what makes sense for you.
I made the same cost analysis and came to the same conclusion for our motorhome. Switching to lithium batteries isn't for everyone. Thanks for watching!
Another great video Duane. This is a subject that one can get deep into the weeds explaining all the differences in battery types and technology, charging rates, wire sizing, converter types, Lithium (electric bicycles) Vs Lithium Iron Phosphate (RV) and such. Not to mention Solar recharging and converter recharging and the managing of both of those capabilities at the same time.
Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries available for RVs can charge at a much higher (2 - 2.5 times) the amperage than Lead Acid type. Say in the neighborhood of 3-4 amps lead acid - Verses - 8-10 amps for a Lithium Iron Phosphate.. Lithium batteries can take that much higher charge amperage. That relates to the faster charging you mention.
Keeping the conversation simple and generic, but yet informative, as you mention, it should prod an RV owner to do their own research and get educated before making any switch in RV battery technology.
Thanks for the positive feedback. You are so right that it's a subject that can get very involved quickly, especially when solar power is in the mix. But I just wanted this video to help RVers decide whether they really need lithium batteries or not.
Very informative video, Duane.
I’m planning on replacing my 6v lead acid house batteries (with Lithium) when they no longer can maintain a charge. My new to me Safari Simba passed its prebuy inspection with these batteries and they seemed to be in good shape.
I installed a self heating LiFePO4 (Lithium Iron Phosphate) battery in my van conversion, with the following results:
Higher voltage (12.8v) which allowed the use of a 12v compressor fridge without activating the fridge’s low voltage cutoff.
A ‘flatter’ voltage curve (ie higher voltage even when the battery was 90% discharged)
Tested to -20C (-4F, I live in Canada) and was still able to discharge and charge.
BTW, a lot of the negative hype about Lithium came from Lithium Polymer batteries (very different from Lithium Iron Phosphate)
I personally wouldn’t hesitate to use them on my Class A, especially the self heating ones. They’re more expensive than the regular Li batteries, but well worth it IMHO.
Thanks for adding that information to the discussion on lithium batteries. They certainly have a lot of advantages to consider as you have experienced already. Have safe and happy travels in your Safari!
I remember with my old Airstream 23FB, running the heat run overnight would kill the batteries, and after a few times they had to be replaced. Most shops would replace them the first time only. One year we bought 5 pairs of replacements at about $100 each, $200+ for the pair. Li-ion may be expensive but in the long run less expensive.
Good point. For some, lithium batteries may actually save them money over time. Thanks for watching!
@ - I commented at the beginning, you spoke of this while I was watching. Thanks for humoring me!
Are you saying you had to replace the batteries 5 times in one year? What kind of heater did you have? I run my heater overnight with no problem.
Lead-acid batteries can't be quick charged do to the Peukert effect. nor discharged, it's efficiency get bad, the bigger the load, the less efficient they get. Also battery life is shorten if you discharge the battery beyond 50%. I have 3 - 100@ hr lithums in parallel in my Van. What a game changer! I keep them charged at about 90% to extend their life. (have solar on roof, DC-DC inverter, AC charger, and a small gas 800 watt inverter generator) It's nice to have some redundancy. Good Video, informative for all.
It sounds like you have a nice setup there and lithium batteries are perfect for your needs. Thanks for sharing it with us!
I always enjoy your videos! 🙂 Ok, I have a single AGM in my rv. Why can't I just replace the battery to a lithium using my existing lead acid charge controller? Ir seems to me I would benefit from the lighter weight of battery as you suggest, and even it won't hurt the lithium if I can't charge it up completely, I will still have more battery then AGM. Your thoughts, please? Thx
It's not a bad idea to replace your AGM battery with lithium instead. But always make sure to match the converter's charging capability with the specific lithium requirements for charging. If you do, your upgrade should go very smoothly.
Some converters ( chargers) do both with a dip switch. There is a different volt and amp value between AGM and Lithium thats the main reason. I would look into your brand and see if it an option. Or you could call your Rv brand manufacture and ask. If not it will add fee's to your battery swap.
Very informative video. I will be forwarding this video to my RV friends. Thank you.
I'm glad that it's helpful for you and thanks for sharing it with others. It's much appreciated!
Great video. It’s easy to get caught up with the whole solar/Lithium fad. It really does depend on your needs. Although I upgraded to two lithium batteries just because of the ability to go below fifty percent. From a capacity perspective way more than I need. But I don’t mind that.
Hi Mike. You make a good point. There are some good reasons why RVers who mostly stay in campgrounds might want to upgrade to lithium batteries including saving the extra weight and space that can be used for cargo, or the long lifespan, etc. But honestly, it's not something that everybody needs to run out and do just because others say that lithium is the only way to go. Thanks for watching and leaving a nice comment!
Some of the higher quality LifePo4 batteries have built in heating elements which will allow you to charge them in colder temperatures.
Good point. Thanks for contributing that to the discussion!
I’m currently looking at Big Beard Batteries, American made!
I've heard good things about them too. Thanks for watching!
American assembled using lithium cells made in China .
😊
Hello. Thank you for this very instructable video. I have two questions for you: When installing lithium batteries, do the wiring need to be changed? I heard that you should not charge a lithium battery more than 80% of its capacity, is this a myth?
I'm not aware of any need for wiring changes when lithium batteries are installed but as I said in the video, it may call for replacing your RV converter to be sure that the charging capabilities are compatible with lithium batteries. And with the correct charger you can charge lithium batteries to 100%.
In addition to converter compatibility, I've heard lithium batteries can damage your alternator. I have a 2024 Jayco Whitehawk with a factory installed solar panel. What upgrades are needed to protect my truck?
Here is an RVing forum discussion that covers a lot of the technical information you need - www.irv2.com/forums/f87/alternator-burn-out-from-lithium-batteries-558284.html
More great information....Thanks
Glad you enjoyed it Joe. Thanks for watching!
I live in Wyoming. Should I store a lithium battery inside the house in the winter?
The RV Geeks created a nice article about how to store lithium batteries in the winter. They provide a lot more information than I can include in this post. So here is the link for that article - www.thervgeeks.com/how-to-store-lithium-rv-batteries-for-winter/
i started whit deep-cycle 5 yr ago now solar station's came down in $ Bluetti ac180 it has everthing in it
Thanks for the recommendation. And thanks for commenting too!
Generally a good review.
I would agree Lithium can be great, the key is cost and usage.
You need LITHIUM IRON PHOSPHATE technology. There are other lithium chemistries that do have fire risk like many of the small rechargeable batteries for phones, devices and tools.
Then you need a quality battery as well as external devices like chargers, converters, and alternators for that can manage lithium.
So switching to Lithium is costly and involved.
The cost goes well beyond the batteries
No way is Lithium going to last 10 times longer.
3-5 probably.
I use both, and am transitioning to Lithium in my boat, will also use it in an RV.
However, it is only for those that need lots of power and plan to use it a lot.
Also Battleborn is great, but overpriced.
There are other options.
Victron is the best for all the chargers and management devices
Thanks for sharing your opinion.
10x as long or even 5x as long is 15-30 yrs!
Lets just say that they last much longer than the typical lead acid battery. Thanks for watching!