I was about to say, "I'm glad to hear it".. I mean, I'm not glad that you might have gotten something ruined, I'm glad to hear it's not just me (as well)
I recommend for the varnish before the oils a gloss varnish (i use ak gloss varnish) and before putting one the acrilys a matt varnish (here I also use ak ultra matt)
Videos like this where you highlight a failure and use it as a learning exercise, then inform us of the steps, are absolutely invaluable. Thanks for your time, amazing work as always!
This explains it all! Half a year of failures The only good thing is that as I thought I was the failure I moved on and found that I actually enjoy just painting with oils as on a canvas 😆
"Face the storm. Obtain the rattle can." -- Modellers and painters, seeking heroism in an unheroic age. Also, a quick clean way to do yellow (our true holy grail).
I really like how the blue undercoat looks, gives a really stark look that stands out against the warm martian base though the magenta/pink undercoat makes them look more in place with their environment
The late still Great Bob Ross used to say that technique is just a mistake you can repeat. I have found this to ring true in my decades of painting and drawing. It is just as true now that I am turning my brushes to minis. Thank you for another awesome video and for keeping the parts most would cut out, so we can all learn from it.
💛💛💛 Putting that yellow on and seeing it magic happen is really the best bit of this technique. I really like that you've shown us all a non-airbrush way to do this
I have done a similar test, undercoating yellow with several colors, and have found that I like the unique tone of orange-brown I get when undershading with Liquitex Deep Violet (PR122 + PV23RS), the most. Which is a purple, not really a violet. Compared to just magenta (PR122), it looks a little less cartoony, but also less boring that undercoating with a regular orange-brown like Mournfang Brown.
Beautiful work! A few episodes back you did a simple oil wash. I fell in love with it right away. I hadn't thought about using it as a starting point. Coincidentally I had printed a tank and wanted to do a yellow scheme. Alex to the rescue with a new wepon for my Arsenal. I will pot some pics on the discord as i work. Lata love from NC!
I hated painting yellow until I found out about basing pink first. Obviously the contrast has made things simpler, but it certainly saved me some money on some overpriced citadel pots that nearly ended up in the bin.
Fascinating, from a scientific perspective as well as an artistic one. I would be impressed, but it is you after all Alex 😄 You always do amazing work. 💕
honestly this whole oil paint approach to underpainting has really changed how I approach things. I used the slapchop method for my orks, and it looks great - really grimy and dark in the way I was looking for. But, when I went to paint my astra militarum models the slapchop method didn't match up to what I wanted. Then came your previous video, like a thunderbolt from the sky, just at the right time. you're right that the preparation part of this method isn't quick (and sometimes is even slower in my draughty English house), but the speed with which a model can get an excellent paint job for the time invested actually applying colour can't be beaten. I've even used it to paint a chimera - with contrast paint! Mind blown. So I guess what I'm trying to say is thanks for yet more excellent videos.
I think I lean ever so slightly to the Bright Pink, but it's between Pink and Magenta. I like the warmth. Also, phenomenal content. Such a well put together video.
I've loved your style since the very beginning! Listening to you talk about painting is like a zen thing. Plus, the subtle humour makes me smile everytime 😀 Very good video Alex! Almost makes me want to start an Imperial Fists army... almost 😉
I've had this solvent based spray paint removal problem happen a couple of times on terrain. I now clear coat between the priming and oil wash step using an acrylic clear coat.
Given that yellow is one of the primary colors for a lot of the classic 40k art it's awesome to see a relatively challenging color tackled so masterfully in a grim dark manner.
It is also recommended to spray a gloss varnish over the primer before using an oil wash. This prevents reactivation (usually not a concern!) as well as help the oil wash flow better and require less cleanup. It also helps the oil wash not bind with some primers that aren't super smooth like from an airbrush. You can then use a matte varnish to help keep the contrast paints from not sticking to the gloss surface.
I always look forward to your videos. I don't expect I'll recommend you to my mother, but I have to several friends, most of whom don't care about mini painting at all.
Thank you for this, a little bit of sunshine in what had been a pretty crappy day. And thank you for showing the whole process bumps and all. Thanks Alex!
First of your videos I have watched... been on a painting kick lately and it really helps me to keep going to watch paint content, regardless of whose. This, however, was amazing. More entertaining that informative in a way (and that's fine), but the production value, comedy, and actual storytelling is phenomenal. Can't say enough positive about this content. Keep it up, I truly enjoyed this.
What I would love to see as a potential future "challenge" is how you'd paint a "factory-fresh" paint job on the armor of some guys who might care a bit too much about the appearance of their equipment. You know, almost like an antithesis to the dirt filter you want to achieve with the final Agrax Earthshade + Medium step.
17:55 Perhaps the favorite can change with base in mind? A much darker base might altered the mindset if magenta was say apposing a dark greenish blue or blue primary. Might be a interesting test for yourself to add a extra layer of forethought. Always trying to find those myself, but here the thought occurred because of the mars like end result.
I've been super enthusiastic about championing oil washes for ages. Except I've moved house, and now my hobby room is (temporarily) also my work office and also my bedroom. Painting with solvents isn't an option right now. In the old house, I never did manage to get the wiping technique to work. I found it easier in the end to do a targeted pinwash, and clean up any mistakes with a brush dipped in white spirit.
Interesting. I wonder if they changed the formula? I use Vallejo Hobby spray paint often and it has never done that with oils. The can you have Alex, looks very different than the one I get here in Canada (white with pictures of a tank, WWII soldier and a Fantasy model iirc). The one I get specifically says "for metal and plastic" but little else. I use Mona Lisa odourless mineral spirits for my oil washes. No idea if any of those contribute to the differences, but again, that has never happened to me.
@@52Miniatures Ahh, I wasn't aware they were changing the branding on the rattle cans. I plan on stopping into my local hobby store and see if they have the new cans. Maybe I will waste $17 just to test it. 😆
Games Workshop primer is a "Japandry primer" like Tamiya and Gunze Sangyo Mr. Hobby primer. These are the toughest and most resilient primers. Vallejo non aerosol primers are water based primer. Their rattlecan primer apparently aren't Japandry and I'm not sure about Army Painter. But for White and Grey, Tamiya is the best, Gunze is as well if you can get it. Gunze also makes a Black and Tamiya also makes a Pink primer as well.
Alex channels Clint Eastwood with his cheroot. Love it. Looks like I might have to brave a bit of snow myself today and for something as mundane as groceries rather than fun rattle cans. Model on!
I've had issues with Vallejo primer too: not like this, I just couldn't get it to cover properly, ended up putting on too much, and then it looked all grainy. My current top pick for white primer is Tamiya, that stuff is magic...
If the white is coming off, it sounds like you use a acrylic 'primer'. The industry has started to confuse base coat paints with a true primer, and thus, most modelers don't know there's a difference. A primer is meant to both stick to the underlying part very well, and allow paint to stick to it (thus gloss paints can't easily be a primer either). I've yet to find any evidence that any acrylic (even with polyurethane additives) can be called a primer, unless they've added lacquer thinners or another strong solvent. So if it says 'acrylic', chances are, it's not actually a primer. There's a few exceptions in some Japanese brands, where they use acrylic binders with lacquer solvents rather than water, such as Tamiya and Mr. Hobby. Many acrylics are labeled as 'primers', but they don't actually adhere the underlying material very well. I've done a lot of side by side tests with various rattle-cans, acrylic 'primers', lacquer primers, solvent based acrylics, and even just any paint just using a lacquer thinner mixed in. In rattle cans, with airbrushes, and paint brushes. The reality is anything not using a solvent (like lacquer thinners) I can rub off with a finger. And I wouldn't consider those a primer at all. Those with a strong solvent, I can't even scratch it off with digging in with my fingernail. That is a primer. Sure, you can't easily strip the paint, but not stripping off the white or black primer is probably fine. This is pretty common knowledge in the scale modeling circles and youtube videos, but it hasn't seemed to make the transition to the wargame miniature channels yet. I think mostly because using nice clean plastic, primers just aren't as critical as when you're mixing various materials. Not to mention, oils, enamels and other harsh paints have been used for decades on scale plastic models, where proper primers were essential to surviving the solvents in those paints. If using acrylic on top of acrylic, as is the norm in wargaming, you're probably fine and never realized there's a whole world of paint chemistry out there. If you use a decent varnish between layers, even an acrylic one, even enamel or oil washes won't cause much trouble. But dig in to fine scale modeling, and you'll find libraries of information on all the various paint chemistries and how to mix and match them; and lacquer based primers are the gold standard. Games Workshop rattle-cans are indeed lacquer based primers.
Very good comment. Finally someone talks about the fact that a proper primer is more than just a basecoat. But I wonder, what materials are used in scale modelling to warrant such levels of adhesion? I am a miniature painter, so am not that well versed on the subject.
@@kalamity9 The biggest problems are either metals (like cables and struts added from piano or lead wire), or non-styrene plastics used for little bits; resins, vinyl, nylon, etc. They're often more stubborn for paint adhesion. Lacquer thinners are also pretty agressive against organic compounds, meaning any residues or oils you weren't able to clean up perfectly are dealt with. They can even adhere to slightly rusty or otherwise oxidized stuff. For larger models, filler/sandable primer works wonders, but usually not ideal for miniatures with such fine detail. But some use them effectively with an airbrush for gundam, which is just as detailed (arguably even more). If you go with thin coats, it's usually fine. And when I'm referring solvents, I'm referring to a 'hot solvent' like MEK or other lacquer thinners, not white spirits. The biggest issue is that you not only need to protect yourself from breathing in paint particles (just like acrylic), but the vapors from the evaporating solvents are toxic, and you need to remove the fumes from the air. So well-ventilated is a must, not just breathing filters. Though a very fancy painting air filter masks can even scrub the solvents out from when you breathe, supposedly.
Cool workflow, alternatively yellow can be just painted with cadmium yellow artist grade oil paint, it has the coverage never seen in model paint (with their cheapo pigments, this is the secret of why yellow is hard using citadel, vallejo, AK and etc.)
Hobby paints names started at scale models where german grey describes in a much better way a specific shade of grey, there is also a ferrari red for example. Then we have hobby paints with names that probably were designed to sound cool, so kids would buy them. Although Steel legion drab is probably a colour of choice for Steel legion.
Interesting that maybe explains why the figures i primed with Vallejo White constantly lost the other paints i was trying to apply. Never had this happen with Army Painter and GW cans.
Vallejo hobby spray isn't advertised a primer. It's just paint. It's very smooth so I do use it as a primer sometimes, but it's not as durable as a primer as the citadel stuff so it should be varnished before handling roughly or using any other chemicals on it. The sansodor chemical is pretty harsh though. There are other ways to thin oils that aren't as aggressive.
I mean, there are different types of paint - not only “just paint”? White spirit or turpentine does not dissolve cured acrylic paint. So the Vallejo spray must be a solvent based paint, not an acrylic paint. This has nothing to do with if it’s durable or if it’s a primer or not. There are solvent based primers for example; they would also dissolve in white spirit… I’m curious what you mean about sansodour being a harsh chemical? What do you use for oil paint that is not as “harsh”?
@@52Miniatures Perhaps I should explain a bit more. I use vallejo spray a lot as a primer, but it needs a varnish. For example I'm working on a bust right now that was primed with Vallejo Model spray. I used the vallejo product because I knew it wouldn't clog the fine texture of the clothing. I didn't varnish and while I was doing the first washes of color with my airbrush I tried to lift a mistake with water, but even gentle rubbing removed some of the paint. I touched it up with more spray and then I brush varnished the model using a matte acrylic varnish from Coat D'Arms and it became durable. Vallejo's spray was designed for smooth application for additional layers of color after the priming is already done, not as a durable topcoat and not as a primer. It's just paint. Actual primers have hardeners and strong binders like glue and they are made from absorbent toothy fillers like calcium chalk that take additional layers of paint well and most importantly real primer has chemicals in it which actually etch the surface of the model for better adhesion. My father taught me that for a model to properly take the first layer of paint it should be sanded with a smooth sandpaper and he would make me do it though its a tedious a process to sand plastic. But we can avoid this in miniature painting with specially formulated primers that can etch the surface or that have especially strong binders and a toothy texture. The special formulation is why a priming layer is so hard to remove when stripping the paint off an old mini. Sansodor is a refined petrol chemical. It's the same thing as mineral spirits, but of a better quality. They refine the chemical to remove some of the bad odor and to slow the evaporation rate which also helps with the odor; hence the name sansodor, but it's origins are the same as hardware store turpentine. The best product on the market like Sansodor is called Gamsol and is made by Gamblin (the name means Gamblin Solvent), but even it has some odor, however those two products are comparable. Though odorless mineral spirits are modified to slow the evaporation rate they still evaporate rather quickly. Being extracted from oil they are oil solvents. They are very thin too. Because they are so thin they penetrate previous layers of paint rather easily and so if used as you did to lift early layers the chemical will sink into the paint getting trapped between the paint and the model. They will lift the paint as they evaporate. This is something that old sources warned us about and it's why previous generations of model makers thought oil paint and acrylics were entirely incompatible, but oil painters know differently. Using a more durable primer or varnishing the previous layer helps to prevent this because the evaporation doesn't affect a more durable layer as much and the better sealed surface helps to prevent penetration in the first place. But even if you don't try to lift any paint from a previous layer a layer of Vallejo spray isn't very durable and so it should be varnished, because as I said even rubbing it a bit will lift it. It's excellent for zenithal highlights though because of it's smooth application and it's ideal for preserving detail. More mild chemicals you can use to dissolve oil paint include water with plain white bar soap like ivory soap or Kirk's castile soap or clear dish soap, or glycerin based soaps like shaving soap from Colonel Conk, and so on. Soap isn't good to use on canvas because it embeds itself into the fibers, but it has a lot of uses. Soap and water can clean out your oil painting brushes really well. It'll remove a lot more pigment than mineral spirits alone will because it's a thick lubricant and a detergent that pushes the pigment away from the brush and it should be used after using mineral spirits or acetone based brush cleaner and paint remover to stop the attack of the hairs. And while speaking of it acetone can be diluted to remove oil paint and acrylic paint and it can be used a stripper. Mineral spirits of various kinds are pretty harsh on your brushes. So after washing it out you should add hair conditioner to your brushes. Though they sell special brush conditioner the kind you shower with works fine or you can make some from lanolin and olive oil or some aloe from your garden. You just rinse it out before you use the brush the next time. Some oil painters never allow their brushes to fully dry and use olive oil, mineral oil, or baby oil in their brushes as a conditioner or as a rinse to prevent the paint drying on their brushes between sessions, though too much in your paint can cause problems and it would be especially easy to use too much when miniature painting. Orange oil solvents used to clean up with too though some of these can be pretty aggressive, but many people can tolerate them better than they can petrol chemicals. You can also use mean green or simply green though these will color your model green and they will attack some topcoats used on cheap chromed plastic, but they are very good for cleaning resin models with a toothbrush to remove release chemicals left over during the molding process and of course we use them in 3d printing a lot. They are powerful degreasers, but also have a foaming detergent. The old school way of degreasing automotive parts or gun parts was to use leaded gasoline, but thankfully nobody really does that now. We have safer alternatives. Alcohol like isopropyl alcohol, vodka, wine, etc. will also work and are used in egg tempera painting, but they should be diluted with water for different strengths. No more than a 10% alcohol solution should be tried on the first pass. The old masters thinned oil paint with spike lavender oil (spikenard) which contains natural turpenes. This is what I use when I am painting on canvas or wood, but you can't use it on most plastics and you can't use a plastic palette when using it. And of course rather than thinning oil paint you can remove it as you fatten it with additional oil. That'll impart much more gloss however even to the areas you've removed the pigment from. You can use hardening oils like linseed, safflower, walnut, etc. or non drying oils like olive oil or vegetable oil. Non-drying oils must be used sparingly or the paint may not polymerize correctly. But if you put a little olive oil onto a Q-tip and dab most of it off a paper towel you can lift oil paint from the surface pretty easily unless it's already started to harden. That's why it's best to use only a small amount of thinner when painting with oils on models. The drawback of using less thinner during oil wash though is more gloss so a varnish with a matte coat like Testor's Dullcote after a layer you don't want to impart gloss to is a good idea. A lot of old bust painters would apply that with an airbrush after an oil layer.
I had the exact same issue while painting a bust. I primed it in Vallejo black and gave it a cenital with wraithbone. I applied a thick layer of oils an forgot about the miniature for a couple of hours. When I tried to remove the oils, I removed the base coat too. I was so confused, I use oils and acrylics all the time...
Alternatively, skip the oil paint step, imperial fist yellow over white/wrath bone > wash with 1:1:1 mix of agrax/casandoa yellow/contrast medium all over > drybrush/stipple white > 2:1 imperial fist yellow/contrast medium on just the parts you stippled/drybrushed > done. Just make sure the imperial fist yellow dries fully because it doesn't like washes if it's not. I've had spots that turned fuzzy for some reason when not fully dry. But even then should cut down the wait time and need for oils all together...
Love the effect generated by the magenta and am trying it myself. Stumbling over the contrast paint tho, it just pools and refuses to cover panels of the models… Perhaps my medium mix was too high, but did the same neat out of the pot?!? 😢
The LED bulb above the spray box looks like the ceramic type featured on _BigClive’s_ tear down and reverse engineering video a couple days ago. He’s of the opinion it’s designed to last a really long time.
one of the best mini painting youtubers out.
Thank you humbly Anthoni
I have had this exact issue with Vallejo primer! It's actually a relief that it's not just me.
I was about to say, "I'm glad to hear it".. I mean, I'm not glad that you might have gotten something ruined, I'm glad to hear it's not just me (as well)
Just varnish before applying your oils; it'll work just fine. No need to dispose of your rattle can primers.
@@worm1618 Indeed, but I wanted this example to have as few steps as possible.
I have had the same problem with vallejo white primer in the airbrush.
I recommend for the varnish before the oils a gloss varnish (i use ak gloss varnish) and before putting one the acrilys a matt varnish (here I also use ak ultra matt)
Videos like this where you highlight a failure and use it as a learning exercise, then inform us of the steps, are absolutely invaluable. Thanks for your time, amazing work as always!
I love it that you show when things go wrong.
This is more than a hobby video. It’s a public service announcement. Thank you!!
I appreciate it Luddite
Quality in every second of this channel
congratulations, you are the fist youtuber to paint yellow that does not have a heavy orange vibe
Also massive respect for
being a content creator who actually tells people to be responsible and careful with some products.
I appreciate it N 👍
This explains it all!
Half a year of failures
The only good thing is that as I thought I was the failure I moved on and found that I actually enjoy just painting with oils as on a canvas 😆
Thanks so much for this my friend. Every time I think I'm out, you draw me back in and make me want to paint some tiny men... Keep up the good work!
So glad to hear it. Thanks T
Love the effect of the magenta. I always start with a hot pink when I'm painting lava, gives such a strong blast of colour to the oranges
"Face the storm. Obtain the rattle can." -- Modellers and painters, seeking heroism in an unheroic age. Also, a quick clean way to do yellow (our true holy grail).
🙌
I really like how the blue undercoat looks, gives a really stark look that stands out against the warm martian base though the magenta/pink undercoat makes them look more in place with their environment
Yellow on top of pink also makes a really fun gradient.
The late still Great Bob Ross used to say that technique is just a mistake you can repeat. I have found this to ring true in my decades of painting and drawing. It is just as true now that I am turning my brushes to minis. Thank you for another awesome video and for keeping the parts most would cut out, so we can all learn from it.
💛💛💛
Putting that yellow on and seeing it magic happen is really the best bit of this technique. I really like that you've shown us all a non-airbrush way to do this
💜 Thanks man!
No matter how many of your videos I watch, I'm always amazed at your production.
Thank you Derek! I appreciate it
Absolutely ADORE the Fistful of Dollars reference/homage!
✌️
I have done a similar test, undercoating yellow with several colors, and have found that I like the unique tone of orange-brown I get when undershading with Liquitex Deep Violet (PR122 + PV23RS), the most. Which is a purple, not really a violet. Compared to just magenta (PR122), it looks a little less cartoony, but also less boring that undercoating with a regular orange-brown like Mournfang Brown.
your previous yellow space marine was incredible, so excited to see how these turn out!
I really like videos that focus in on one of the colors we "fear". Vincy V has also done a series, glad to see you also take up the challenge.
nice, my man having a smoke too! you love to see it. i smoke my pipe and paint minis often, its an amazing combo.
Thanks!
Great video! Grateful for the entertainment and your company while I paint. 😊
Great video, showed both the successes and failures that come with the hobby (well, a vallejo fail perhaps), and definitely a good way of doing yellow
Thanks Michael!
I so love the way you always have a Story on your Videos.
Thanks TFTF!
That magenta one is glorious! Glad I saw this before I started painting. Stort tack!
Love that bright pink undercoat!
Beautiful work! A few episodes back you did a simple oil wash. I fell in love with it right away. I hadn't thought about using it as a starting point. Coincidentally I had printed a tank and wanted to do a yellow scheme. Alex to the rescue with a new wepon for my Arsenal. I will pot some pics on the discord as i work. Lata love from NC!
Thanks Charles and please do! It would be cool to see the tank.
Bravo! That’s a brilliant recipe for yellow, and by extension pretty much every other lighter color combo.
Great stuff friend 👏 👍
Thanks for sharing your journey
Thanks Mark!
As a new hobby painter that has been having trouble painting yellow, this video has given me everything I need to paint it well!!
Great to hear Larry!
Came here to learn how to paint yellow. Ended up watching a videographical work of art. And learned how to paint yellow. Success.
Welcome Giz 👋
The painting content is as always amazing, but the story of overcoming adversity with your first primer was supremely enjoyable.
thank you for vanquishing the solvent bandits on our behalf, you're like a modern hobby Clint Eastwood!
Pow pow!
Superb video, not only did you show the yellow but also how to actually make an oil wash, thank you.
this is my first video of yours I have watched. SOLD ! I am now a fan thank you, I hear the call of my hobby desk once again !
Glad to hear it! Welcome to the channel
I hated painting yellow until I found out about basing pink first. Obviously the contrast has made things simpler, but it certainly saved me some money on some overpriced citadel pots that nearly ended up in the bin.
This is very helpful! I love the failures included in the videos, it definitely adds to see the process overall.
8:22 This scene... très magnifique
The subtle difference between the shadows created are so great, almost as if it is the same company but in different enviroments
Fascinating, from a scientific perspective as well as an artistic one. I would be impressed, but it is you after all Alex 😄 You always do amazing work. 💕
Well thank you good sir 🖖
@@52Miniatures
Peace and long life 🖖
Really liked the magenta underpainting. I've used pink in the past, but ill be using a deeper hue next time. Thanks for another helpful video Alex!
Thanks The End!
This video was a two-fer; education on Vallejo primer composition and beautiful yellow marine exhibition. Well done on both!
Thanks John!
"Alex of 52 miniatures. Known by moms everywhere." new slogan. :D
Hah! Love it
Very timely- I’ve got some yellow feathers on a skink headdress that are just not working. Lots of ideas here!
honestly this whole oil paint approach to underpainting has really changed how I approach things. I used the slapchop method for my orks, and it looks great - really grimy and dark in the way I was looking for. But, when I went to paint my astra militarum models the slapchop method didn't match up to what I wanted. Then came your previous video, like a thunderbolt from the sky, just at the right time. you're right that the preparation part of this method isn't quick (and sometimes is even slower in my draughty English house), but the speed with which a model can get an excellent paint job for the time invested actually applying colour can't be beaten. I've even used it to paint a chimera - with contrast paint! Mind blown. So I guess what I'm trying to say is thanks for yet more excellent videos.
Great to hear Niko, thanks 🙏
The shot of you leaving home and lighting a cigarette was epic. Subscribed
Welcome to the channel!
I think I lean ever so slightly to the Bright Pink, but it's between Pink and Magenta. I like the warmth. Also, phenomenal content. Such a well put together video.
I've loved your style since the very beginning! Listening to you talk about painting is like a zen thing. Plus, the subtle humour makes me smile everytime 😀 Very good video Alex! Almost makes me want to start an Imperial Fists army... almost 😉
Thanks man, and good to hear from you. I hope all is well.
@@52Miniatures I'm great, thanks for asking! Just busy, as we all are, aren't we? Anyway, have a very pleasant day! :)
I've had this solvent based spray paint removal problem happen a couple of times on terrain. I now clear coat between the priming and oil wash step using an acrylic clear coat.
Given that yellow is one of the primary colors for a lot of the classic 40k art it's awesome to see a relatively challenging color tackled so masterfully in a grim dark manner.
Thank you Steffon!
You are the most inspiring UA-camr! Thank you so much for your videos!
Thank you J! I appreciate it 👋
Fantastic video. Well spoken. Overcoming your surprise priming adversary was both informative and made for an interesting narrative.
What a journey! 😄I do love yellow-gamboge, goldenrod, saffron, lemony, Turner-y, whatever I can get my hands on. I enjoyed seeing your techniques.
Great K, thank you 🙏
It is also recommended to spray a gloss varnish over the primer before using an oil wash. This prevents reactivation (usually not a concern!) as well as help the oil wash flow better and require less cleanup. It also helps the oil wash not bind with some primers that aren't super smooth like from an airbrush. You can then use a matte varnish to help keep the contrast paints from not sticking to the gloss surface.
Really appreciate your content sir, especially showing test and fails/accidents with products. Very soothing tutorials great quality as always.
Thank you very much, I appreciate it.
I always look forward to your videos. I don't expect I'll recommend you to my mother, but I have to several friends, most of whom don't care about mini painting at all.
Thanks Andrew!
Thank you for this, a little bit of sunshine in what had been a pretty crappy day. And thank you for showing the whole process bumps and all. Thanks Alex!
Sorry to hear about the bad day but I’m glad to hear the video helped 👍
First of your videos I have watched... been on a painting kick lately and it really helps me to keep going to watch paint content, regardless of whose. This, however, was amazing. More entertaining that informative in a way (and that's fine), but the production value, comedy, and actual storytelling is phenomenal. Can't say enough positive about this content. Keep it up, I truly enjoyed this.
Thank you K, much appreciated.
What I would love to see as a potential future "challenge" is how you'd paint a "factory-fresh" paint job on the armor of some guys who might care a bit too much about the appearance of their equipment. You know, almost like an antithesis to the dirt filter you want to achieve with the final Agrax Earthshade + Medium step.
This is like a professional artist using a colouring book
Thank you for braving those arduous conditions to make this video!!
Yellow is a hard colour, but I do like these contrast paints.
17:55 Perhaps the favorite can change with base in mind? A much darker base might altered the mindset if magenta was say apposing a dark greenish blue or blue primary. Might be a interesting test for yourself to add a extra layer of forethought. Always trying to find those myself, but here the thought occurred because of the mars like end result.
I love the "existential crisis" vibe this video gives off!
It was! :)
Those guns look amazing
Thanks! Pretty swift workflow. Black contrast paint and then over bush lightly with silvery metallic paint
Lovely work Alex. Like it how watching your vids is like witnessing artwork in progress. Not just the minis, the whole video. Top job once more
Thank you B!
This is the first video of yours I have seen. I’m eager to see more. Loved it!
Glad to hear it, welcome to the channel.
I've been super enthusiastic about championing oil washes for ages. Except I've moved house, and now my hobby room is (temporarily) also my work office and also my bedroom. Painting with solvents isn't an option right now.
In the old house, I never did manage to get the wiping technique to work. I found it easier in the end to do a targeted pinwash, and clean up any mistakes with a brush dipped in white spirit.
I'm positive that the vast majority of moms would indeed be delighted to have you recommended to them. 😊
Counting on it!
A true storyteller
Interesting. I wonder if they changed the formula? I use Vallejo Hobby spray paint often and it has never done that with oils. The can you have Alex, looks very different than the one I get here in Canada (white with pictures of a tank, WWII soldier and a Fantasy model iirc). The one I get specifically says "for metal and plastic" but little else. I use Mona Lisa odourless mineral spirits for my oil washes. No idea if any of those contribute to the differences, but again, that has never happened to me.
This was a fresh delivery, it's their new logo on, like the way the game colour bottles look now. I don't know if they have altered the formula.
@@52Miniatures Ahh, I wasn't aware they were changing the branding on the rattle cans. I plan on stopping into my local hobby store and see if they have the new cans. Maybe I will waste $17 just to test it. 😆
Bro I am drunk watching this video and god damn what a rollercoaster. This is cinema.
Games Workshop primer is a "Japandry primer" like Tamiya and Gunze Sangyo Mr. Hobby primer. These are the toughest and most resilient primers. Vallejo non aerosol primers are water based primer. Their rattlecan primer apparently aren't Japandry and I'm not sure about Army Painter. But for White and Grey, Tamiya is the best, Gunze is as well if you can get it. Gunze also makes a Black and Tamiya also makes a Pink primer as well.
Alex channels Clint Eastwood with his cheroot. Love it. Looks like I might have to brave a bit of snow myself today and for something as mundane as groceries rather than fun rattle cans. Model on!
The snow is back here again, again.
You get me excited to try new things! Much love!
Great to hear M!
I've had issues with Vallejo primer too: not like this, I just couldn't get it to cover properly, ended up putting on too much, and then it looked all grainy.
My current top pick for white primer is Tamiya, that stuff is magic...
If the white is coming off, it sounds like you use a acrylic 'primer'. The industry has started to confuse base coat paints with a true primer, and thus, most modelers don't know there's a difference. A primer is meant to both stick to the underlying part very well, and allow paint to stick to it (thus gloss paints can't easily be a primer either). I've yet to find any evidence that any acrylic (even with polyurethane additives) can be called a primer, unless they've added lacquer thinners or another strong solvent. So if it says 'acrylic', chances are, it's not actually a primer. There's a few exceptions in some Japanese brands, where they use acrylic binders with lacquer solvents rather than water, such as Tamiya and Mr. Hobby.
Many acrylics are labeled as 'primers', but they don't actually adhere the underlying material very well. I've done a lot of side by side tests with various rattle-cans, acrylic 'primers', lacquer primers, solvent based acrylics, and even just any paint just using a lacquer thinner mixed in. In rattle cans, with airbrushes, and paint brushes. The reality is anything not using a solvent (like lacquer thinners) I can rub off with a finger. And I wouldn't consider those a primer at all. Those with a strong solvent, I can't even scratch it off with digging in with my fingernail. That is a primer. Sure, you can't easily strip the paint, but not stripping off the white or black primer is probably fine.
This is pretty common knowledge in the scale modeling circles and youtube videos, but it hasn't seemed to make the transition to the wargame miniature channels yet. I think mostly because using nice clean plastic, primers just aren't as critical as when you're mixing various materials. Not to mention, oils, enamels and other harsh paints have been used for decades on scale plastic models, where proper primers were essential to surviving the solvents in those paints. If using acrylic on top of acrylic, as is the norm in wargaming, you're probably fine and never realized there's a whole world of paint chemistry out there. If you use a decent varnish between layers, even an acrylic one, even enamel or oil washes won't cause much trouble. But dig in to fine scale modeling, and you'll find libraries of information on all the various paint chemistries and how to mix and match them; and lacquer based primers are the gold standard. Games Workshop rattle-cans are indeed lacquer based primers.
Very good comment. Finally someone talks about the fact that a proper primer is more than just a basecoat. But I wonder, what materials are used in scale modelling to warrant such levels of adhesion? I am a miniature painter, so am not that well versed on the subject.
@@kalamity9 The biggest problems are either metals (like cables and struts added from piano or lead wire), or non-styrene plastics used for little bits; resins, vinyl, nylon, etc. They're often more stubborn for paint adhesion. Lacquer thinners are also pretty agressive against organic compounds, meaning any residues or oils you weren't able to clean up perfectly are dealt with. They can even adhere to slightly rusty or otherwise oxidized stuff. For larger models, filler/sandable primer works wonders, but usually not ideal for miniatures with such fine detail. But some use them effectively with an airbrush for gundam, which is just as detailed (arguably even more). If you go with thin coats, it's usually fine. And when I'm referring solvents, I'm referring to a 'hot solvent' like MEK or other lacquer thinners, not white spirits.
The biggest issue is that you not only need to protect yourself from breathing in paint particles (just like acrylic), but the vapors from the evaporating solvents are toxic, and you need to remove the fumes from the air. So well-ventilated is a must, not just breathing filters. Though a very fancy painting air filter masks can even scrub the solvents out from when you breathe, supposedly.
Thank you for the deep dive S! I appreciate it.
And yes, GW primer so far is some of the best out there for rattlecan.
Fantastic as always, thanks!
Thanks again Alex!
Great video, love the walkthrough. I've been sitting on a few marines I really want to do this with.
Cool workflow, alternatively yellow can be just painted with cadmium yellow artist grade oil paint, it has the coverage never seen in model paint (with their cheapo pigments, this is the secret of why yellow is hard using citadel, vallejo, AK and etc.)
Hobby paints names started at scale models where german grey describes in a much better way a specific shade of grey, there is also a ferrari red for example. Then we have hobby paints with names that probably were designed to sound cool, so kids would buy them. Although Steel legion drab is probably a colour of choice for Steel legion.
Im curious, do you like rattlecan priming more than airbrush priming or do you just not have one? Oil washes work really well with airbrushing too
I used a can in this video to make it more approachable to those without an airbrush.
Interesting that maybe explains why the figures i primed with Vallejo White constantly lost the other paints i was trying to apply.
Never had this happen with Army Painter and GW cans.
Vallejo hobby spray isn't advertised a primer. It's just paint. It's very smooth so I do use it as a primer sometimes, but it's not as durable as a primer as the citadel stuff so it should be varnished before handling roughly or using any other chemicals on it. The sansodor chemical is pretty harsh though. There are other ways to thin oils that aren't as aggressive.
I mean, there are different types of paint - not only “just paint”? White spirit or turpentine does not dissolve cured acrylic paint. So the Vallejo spray must be a solvent based paint, not an acrylic paint. This has nothing to do with if it’s durable or if it’s a primer or not. There are solvent based primers for example; they would also dissolve in white spirit… I’m curious what you mean about sansodour being a harsh chemical? What do you use for oil paint that is not as “harsh”?
@@52Miniatures Perhaps I should explain a bit more. I use vallejo spray a lot as a primer, but it needs a varnish. For example I'm working on a bust right now that was primed with Vallejo Model spray. I used the vallejo product because I knew it wouldn't clog the fine texture of the clothing. I didn't varnish and while I was doing the first washes of color with my airbrush I tried to lift a mistake with water, but even gentle rubbing removed some of the paint. I touched it up with more spray and then I brush varnished the model using a matte acrylic varnish from Coat D'Arms and it became durable.
Vallejo's spray was designed for smooth application for additional layers of color after the priming is already done, not as a durable topcoat and not as a primer. It's just paint.
Actual primers have hardeners and strong binders like glue and they are made from absorbent toothy fillers like calcium chalk that take additional layers of paint well and most importantly real primer has chemicals in it which actually etch the surface of the model for better adhesion.
My father taught me that for a model to properly take the first layer of paint it should be sanded with a smooth sandpaper and he would make me do it though its a tedious a process to sand plastic.
But we can avoid this in miniature painting with specially formulated primers that can etch the surface or that have especially strong binders and a toothy texture. The special formulation is why a priming layer is so hard to remove when stripping the paint off an old mini.
Sansodor is a refined petrol chemical. It's the same thing as mineral spirits, but of a better quality. They refine the chemical to remove some of the bad odor and to slow the evaporation rate which also helps with the odor; hence the name sansodor, but it's origins are the same as hardware store turpentine.
The best product on the market like Sansodor is called Gamsol and is made by Gamblin (the name means Gamblin Solvent), but even it has some odor, however those two products are comparable.
Though odorless mineral spirits are modified to slow the evaporation rate they still evaporate rather quickly. Being extracted from oil they are oil solvents. They are very thin too. Because they are so thin they penetrate previous layers of paint rather easily and so if used as you did to lift early layers the chemical will sink into the paint getting trapped between the paint and the model. They will lift the paint as they evaporate. This is something that old sources warned us about and it's why previous generations of model makers thought oil paint and acrylics were entirely incompatible, but oil painters know differently.
Using a more durable primer or varnishing the previous layer helps to prevent this because the evaporation doesn't affect a more durable layer as much and the better sealed surface helps to prevent penetration in the first place.
But even if you don't try to lift any paint from a previous layer a layer of Vallejo spray isn't very durable and so it should be varnished, because as I said even rubbing it a bit will lift it.
It's excellent for zenithal highlights though because of it's smooth application and it's ideal for preserving detail.
More mild chemicals you can use to dissolve oil paint include water with plain white bar soap like ivory soap or Kirk's castile soap or clear dish soap, or glycerin based soaps like shaving soap from Colonel Conk, and so on.
Soap isn't good to use on canvas because it embeds itself into the fibers, but it has a lot of uses. Soap and water can clean out your oil painting brushes really well. It'll remove a lot more pigment than mineral spirits alone will because it's a thick lubricant and a detergent that pushes the pigment away from the brush and it should be used after using mineral spirits or acetone based brush cleaner and paint remover to stop the attack of the hairs. And while speaking of it acetone can be diluted to remove oil paint and acrylic paint and it can be used a stripper.
Mineral spirits of various kinds are pretty harsh on your brushes. So after washing it out you should add hair conditioner to your brushes. Though they sell special brush conditioner the kind you shower with works fine or you can make some from lanolin and olive oil or some aloe from your garden. You just rinse it out before you use the brush the next time.
Some oil painters never allow their brushes to fully dry and use olive oil, mineral oil, or baby oil in their brushes as a conditioner or as a rinse to prevent the paint drying on their brushes between sessions, though too much in your paint can cause problems and it would be especially easy to use too much when miniature painting.
Orange oil solvents used to clean up with too though some of these can be pretty aggressive, but many people can tolerate them better than they can petrol chemicals.
You can also use mean green or simply green though these will color your model green and they will attack some topcoats used on cheap chromed plastic, but they are very good for cleaning resin models with a toothbrush to remove release chemicals left over during the molding process and of course we use them in 3d printing a lot. They are powerful degreasers, but also have a foaming detergent. The old school way of degreasing automotive parts or gun parts was to use leaded gasoline, but thankfully nobody really does that now. We have safer alternatives.
Alcohol like isopropyl alcohol, vodka, wine, etc. will also work and are used in egg tempera painting, but they should be diluted with water for different strengths. No more than a 10% alcohol solution should be tried on the first pass.
The old masters thinned oil paint with spike lavender oil (spikenard) which contains natural turpenes. This is what I use when I am painting on canvas or wood, but you can't use it on most plastics and you can't use a plastic palette when using it.
And of course rather than thinning oil paint you can remove it as you fatten it with additional oil. That'll impart much more gloss however even to the areas you've removed the pigment from. You can use hardening oils like linseed, safflower, walnut, etc. or non drying oils like olive oil or vegetable oil. Non-drying oils must be used sparingly or the paint may not polymerize correctly. But if you put a little olive oil onto a Q-tip and dab most of it off a paper towel you can lift oil paint from the surface pretty easily unless it's already started to harden. That's why it's best to use only a small amount of thinner when painting with oils on models.
The drawback of using less thinner during oil wash though is more gloss so a varnish with a matte coat like Testor's Dullcote after a layer you don't want to impart gloss to is a good idea. A lot of old bust painters would apply that with an airbrush after an oil layer.
Another great video, thanks Alex! Certainly getting your content value for money out of this box set! 😂 Any clever plans to cover the vehicles?
I think so! at least the two legged thing.
I had some white ink that was removed by oil spirts too. I think it is a durability issue though rather than a reactivation.
In my case it was definitely some kind of reactivation. As no other rattle cans had the same issue and I've never had that effect before.
I wish you had uploaded this one 2 months earlier as i have been a "Vallejo" victim on my Nighthaunt project...I love you anyway! 😜
I always love your content 52. The pace and style of your videos is superb. As usual informative and entertaining. ;_
Great video mate, Shame ive just finished 4k of imperial fists for heresy! May use this on some centre piece large models!
great stuff, as always! Magenta is the nicest but the side by side comparisons were very informative!
sweet glad you did this my friend.
Thanks Matt!
@@52Miniatures no problem my friend. they look awesome
very beautiful
I had the exact same issue while painting a bust. I primed it in Vallejo black and gave it a cenital with wraithbone. I applied a thick layer of oils an forgot about the miniature for a couple of hours. When I tried to remove the oils, I removed the base coat too. I was so confused, I use oils and acrylics all the time...
It must be solvent based paint in the cans
Alternatively, skip the oil paint step, imperial fist yellow over white/wrath bone > wash with 1:1:1 mix of agrax/casandoa yellow/contrast medium all over > drybrush/stipple white > 2:1 imperial fist yellow/contrast medium on just the parts you stippled/drybrushed > done. Just make sure the imperial fist yellow dries fully because it doesn't like washes if it's not. I've had spots that turned fuzzy for some reason when not fully dry. But even then should cut down the wait time and need for oils all together...
Love the effect generated by the magenta and am trying it myself. Stumbling over the contrast paint tho, it just pools and refuses to cover panels of the models… Perhaps my medium mix was too high, but did the same neat out of the pot?!? 😢
I don’t know honestly. Maybe the surface underneath is too glossy?
@@52Miniatures thanks for responding. Maybe? I used an Army Painter spray primer, may try another brand next time.
Would love to see this method using the airbrush. I like seeing options man. This was great. Wash Posh?
The LED bulb above the spray box looks like the ceramic type featured on _BigClive’s_ tear down and reverse engineering video a couple days ago. He’s of the opinion it’s designed to last a really long time.
Cool. Thank you for sharing.