you have a nice perfectly flat surface there i think a lot of people overtighten because their floor is not level and they think they can somehow stop the rocking if they tighten it enough. plus, a high spot puts all the pressure on one point.
if the bottom is not supported the force is in tension rather than compression and porcelain is not very strong in tension. The wax is mainly compressed by the weight of the toilet itself and the bolts just hold it in position.
Sparky here having removed and set 4 toilets. Technically the 4th one is the same toilet as the 3rd. I don't know if it was over tightening or just the cheap plastic flange but it started getting loose. Tried tightening it more and that didn't do much so I figured the plastic gave way and just to make it a little more secure until I could get time to go to the hardware store I tried tightening the other closet bolt and heard a loud pop. Porcelain thankfully wasn't broke, but the weight of the toilet was the only thing holding that in place for several days until I had time to deal with it over the weekend. Learned that metal repair flange brackets exist. Whose bright idea was it to design plastic to hold a metal bolt I'll never know.
Congratulations.. My oldest grandson is only 12 but unfortunately his mom is nauseatingly liberal and doesn't lift a finger to encourage the boy's education. He'll probably come along looking for a better job someday when poor math skills and even worse work ethics find him unemployed...
Controversial take, he wasted a ton of time getting that 4.0 just to go be a plumber. Plumbers a great job but not one you need a 4.0 for. Would’ve been better off spending that time learning plumbing back then
I'm not a licensed plumber but I sure have replaced and reset a lot of toilets, I use a nutdriver only; don't use any type of handle as the lever effect makes it difficult to feel just how tight the nuts are. With a nutdriver, your palm is your torque wrench.
American Standard uses hand tightened plastic nuts to hold the toilet in place. The toilets seem to be designed for installation by non plumbers and the hand tightened nuts eliminate the need for a wrench to tighten the toilet in place, but my guess is that they designed the nuts to reduce the likelihood of over tightening the nuts by non plumbers.FWIW, this toilet was about a quarter inch out of flat. I thought that was a lot and I thought about taking it back, but I didn't feel like it, so I shimmed it.
That was an eye opener for me. I have broken a toilet when installing it. I was young and used to mechanical work so definitely overtightened it. Since then I have always been afraid to tighten them too much. I have thought the wax ring was too high or too large as some of the toilets I installed still rocked a bit. I see now I didn't use the right techniques to secure it.
Just go back and forth with each bolt just like when you are suppose to tighten a wheel on a car. As so it is flush and doesn't rock left/right then it's good. If you try to screw in one bolt all the way down you risk putting too much stress unevenly.
I don’t install them very often, but I’ve done it for friends and family enough times that this was a fascinating test to watch; super interesting and exciting at the end! Never considered using a torque wrench, but your test was well thought out and executed. I’m totally sure I’ve never achieved 20 ft-lbs torque in my installs, and was grimacing with every additional increase near the end, perhaps we all were! Never thought it would be THAT much to the fracture point, and that number will probably vary from toilet to toilet, but now we all have a number etched in our brains not to exceed. I’ll definitely bring y torque wrench along for the next one, thanks a ton, for an interesting and applicable video!! LarryS
Nice video! I'd be interested in seeing how the washer size affects the torque needed to break the toilet. I've killed a toilet using smaller washers than you used and im almost sure i wasnt applying 19 ft-lb of torque.
OK, we've seen how much torque it takes to BREAK a toilet, so what is the ideal range tightness???? I've digital inch/pound torque wrench so what do I aim for???
Thanks for the video. The only things I would mention about the type of torque wrench you used is that the spring needs to be "worked" before using it. This ensures that the set torque is accurate. This just entails changing the setting the full range multiple times. Also, the spring is recommended to be calibrated every so often.
Earlier this year I replaced my Peerless 1.6 GPF toilet that clogged every time you used it with a proper vintage full flush toilet which actually works, and although I have installed toilets in the past, tightening the bolts always makes me nervous. Luckily the install went great, and the toilet is working well although I could have probably made them a bit tighter, it doesn't shift.
@@OCC_Plumbing_and_RestorationsIt is a pretty nice toilet, it is a Celite with a side push button which is supposedly sort of rare. I quite like it, I got it from a house that was being remodled.
Love your videos. They’re full of great information. Some respectful feedback: you’ll get more accurate torques from the wrench by putting your hand in the dead center of the handle. John Cadogan, an automotive expert and engineer, did a deep dive series of videos on this topic.
I have always been worried about breaking a PVC flange when installing a toilet no so much the actual toilet. I have seen a few broken flanges when I pull toilets. I am a huge fan of 5/16 bolts also!
I found the best practice is to use a straight edge and check the floor for flatness, then install the gasket and toilet. Additional shims along the front,stop any movement.
This is why i use nylon toilet bokts because if somebody falls into it, it will break the bolt and not the toilet. And if you tighten them to much the bolt breaks and thats it...
That's a good demonstration. But the older china is a lot more sturdy than the newer china. Also gotta take into effect that every casting is going to be different, having different empurities and voids.
As an apprentice,i broke the bottom by the bolt, the whole tank corner changing a handle (or attempting to change- dadgum reverse direction got me on that), and the tank from tank to bowl bolts to the center AND all of the way to the outside edge. They made me learn a lot of stuff the hard way
Then there's how tight to tighten the bolts that hold the tank to the bowl. Had a friend who had to replace the entire toilet after overtightening the tank to the bowl. Always makes me more nervous to tighten the tank to the bowl than the closet bolts that hold down the toilet.
Yeah I agree I had to cut old bolts and replace them once super scary porcelain on porcelain I got lucky and nothing broke but I thought it was gonna happen for sure😂
I broke my first one in a factory, placing toilets on flat floors. I learned to sit on the toilet first to help seat the wax ring, wiggle my butt a bit, get up and tighten the bolts until I get nervous. Worked 99% of the time. Occasionally had to tighten a few a little more, but my technique worked out well.
I never broke a toilet but let me tell you something. When i first learned to install toilets i took all day to install a toilet because i was using a ratchet to tighten the bolts. I didnt break the toilet but i kept breaking the bolts and it kept rocking. I was an apprentice but i was non union so i had no one there to ask what i was doing wrong until the journeyman came back from the store and laughed and told me to use a crescent wrench because a ratchet would overtighten the bolts. I had always worked on cars so i was just more familiar with using ratchets. Anyways as i started working on my own i realized the best tool for removing and installing toilet bolts is BY FAR a 7/16 nut driver. My person favorite is klein tools’ 9-in-1 pass through nut driver, its honestly maybe my favorite tool in my whole truck I literally never go into a house without one its so useful. Nowadays i can replace a toilet in about 20 minutes but every time i install i always remember the time I spent a full day trying to figure out what the hell i did wrong. Also P.S for the record I actually HAVE broken a toilet before but not by overtightening it, it simply slipped out of my hands onetime and shattered, i ended up paying for it out of pocket so i definitely learned my lesson
hey man good one 8yrs plumbing here i had my share of stories as well 😂, hey what was that tool pass through driver again? i definitely can use one will make my life easier
I HATE pulling toilets. That being said, when I get toilet bolts tight enough and it still wobbles...i recommend a pull and reset to inspect the flange bc THATS likely the problem. I tightened up a loose toilet with nylon bolts about a week ago, hearda tick/crack whatever. Now the base of the johny bolt can shift, a caught thread can slip, it made me nervous tho! Even tho thats the hole point of nylon bolts from what ive heard...no callbacks yet and its 2nd floor so I imagine id have heard back by now
In not a plumber but I've changed out several toilets. You should not tighten a wobbly toilet down. If your floor isn't level, use plaster of Paris to level the toilet then tighten down the bolts. I only go about 1/2 turn past hand right.
I have only broken a couple of bowls. Usually, I will tighten it up until I think it is too loose and flush it; if it leaks, I will tighten it up again. I am retired now but I have had more trouble with the tanks. I have broken more than a few of them, installing floats and flush valves, and nowadays, if you break a tank, you almost have to buy a whole new toilet because it is hard to find a tank to fit. I worked in apartment maintenance, so I have replaced a lot of toilets. It is sooo easy to get them too tight.
I snug it up till and it feels tight and it dont move. If it does move and i feel its tight enough id rther shim it then keep tightening. Ill tell you one thing if you ever set a toilet in a cold house dont tighten all the way. Leave room for expansion when it warms back up.
havent broke one but i had some issues installing using a foam ring as it was harder to compress and the toilet would wobble, had to sit on the toilet and then tighten the bolts to make it feel like it wasnt going to break on tightening. But after using bleach cleaner and melting the ring causing a leak i just went for the trusty wax ring, also found the bleach based in tank cleaner also melted the rubber seals between the tank and the bowl, and the washers on the tank bolts
Im looking to move to the dallas area. I have 1 year plumbing experience and 3 years as a construction laborer. How hard will be to find a plumbing apprenticeship when i move?
With so many different toilets that have been produced, testing one is better than doing none. Lots of variables to consider making a torque wrench a tool to use for this purpose. If the manufacturer stated what torque to use, that would be ideal in a perfect world. Not all floors are even so if there is a sag where the bolts are being tightened, it may be possible that it would crack even with a manufacturers recommendation. Tightening a base has always made me a little nervous even though I have never broken a toilet. Maybe an insert that would take al the torque could be cast into the base such as a tube of steel anchored in the porcelain, then maybe a torque wrench value would become a standard. Great idea for an invention. Thanks for doing this.
Was he tightening both sides, or just the one we saw? Because I think if he did both sides it would have broken faster. There was hardly any tension from the other side.
Interesting !! Thanks Roger. I use a gear wrench and grip it very lightly about 3" from the nut to gently tighten. That's my torque wrench. Looking cold in your shop man! I also warm the wax ring in cold conditions to get a good squish.
busted toilets are often on out of level floors or loose flanges that just keep getting tightened in a perfect world the bolts dont need very tight and caulk helps a lot
It probably broke earlier in that cold shop than it would in a warm home I’ve broken several toilets, buts its always been the one I’m already replacing if the bolts aren’t cooperating when pulling
The base of the toilet is square, which likely increases structural integrity. It also looks like it's thick as hell compared to a more modern toilet. The area with the bolthole on my toilet is only like 1/2 inch thick.
I have sat many a toilet over my 40 years as a homeowner and never broke the bowl overtightening the flange nuts; however, I did break a cast iron flange that was not anchored to the floor. Got to admit, tightening those bolts always makes me cringe a bit. After I set the bowl down on the new wax ring, I carefully on the toilet to seat the wax ring, then run the nuts down then tighten ever so carefully.
This was putting the toilet on a nice clean flat floor. Put it on a not so flat cement or tile floor, something hard and may have little bumps or any debris under the toilet it might snap a lot sooner.
Did you just do one side of the toilet? That absolutely matters when doing this, the porcelain fights being yanked down on both sides and causes it to split. I'm guessing that's why it took you so long to break it. I've broken a toilet with 2 fingers and a small adjustable and it definitely isnt almost 20ft lbs lol.
The only time I've ever broken a toilet at the base is on the old one when the bolts would not come off and it was just too hard to cut them off, so out came the ball peen hammer and with a few taps it was up
For the record I’m not a plumber, but an HVAC service tech. During the slow season the residential company I used to work for would have me go out and replace toilets at various places (I’ve done 14 total). I’ve always just slowly tighten those nuts down in slow increments, one after the other, until the toilet didn’t feel wobbly anymore. It was always a nerve wracking experience. One time while tightening one of the nuts down, the end of my ratchet made contact with the toilet making a loud clanking sound, made me jump a mile as I thought I broke it. 🤣
thanks for the video. of course, the click is nice but cannot hear over the music. was even hard to break out your voice at times but i think i got the jist.
Man the first crapper I put in I cracked it ugggg, I've done it a few other times since and even put a porcelain toilet in a bus and haven't cracked on since, once you do it you just kinda how how much is enough lol.
I broke a PVC flange by overtightening once when I first started, but never a toilet. As long as the toilet is sitting flat and not rocking, all you need to do is snug the bolt. To rock the toilet at that point, you would have to stretch the bolt or bend or break the flange. Physics says that ain't happening under normal circumstances. If the floor is not flat, install shims to keep it from rocking and add grout to create a flat base for the toilet to sit on.
Considering a 1/4” bolt would never be torqued past 30ft lbs in metal applications bolts held in plastic flanges would obviously indicate very low torque.
Not for nothing, I feel like the porcelain quality from that era would hold up better than any toilet today...just like every thing else in plumbing.. And damn! 19ft/lb? You could throw a tire on a car and the lugnuts would be tight enough to drive halfway across town in a shop 😂
I have removed and replaced hundreds of toilets and never broke one tighten it down but one made a horrible sound and oh sh@@ but it never broke, but I have destroyed two bowls with a toilet ager. Blew right out the side.
I've never broken a toilet, but I have pulled MANY bolts through flanges. Not sure why so home builders use these stupid flimsy stamped steel flanges. Even if you don't "overtighten" the bolts, the flange itself can't support the weight of an average adult shifting on the seat.
Just a DYIer here. Braking a Toilet is always a concern for me. I will say that you are using your torque wrench incorrectly. You are suppose to grip it by the handle. The knurled part of it. If it is gripped above or at the bottom like you did, The wrench will torque incorrectly. Many do not believe this, but you can watch tubers, doing this test. Keep up the good videos.
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
you have a nice perfectly flat surface there i think a lot of people overtighten because their floor is not level and they think they can somehow stop the rocking if they tighten it enough. plus, a high spot puts all the pressure on one point.
if the bottom is not supported the force is in tension rather than compression and porcelain is not very strong in tension. The wax is mainly compressed by the weight of the toilet itself and the bolts just hold it in position.
Sparky here having removed and set 4 toilets. Technically the 4th one is the same toilet as the 3rd. I don't know if it was over tightening or just the cheap plastic flange but it started getting loose. Tried tightening it more and that didn't do much so I figured the plastic gave way and just to make it a little more secure until I could get time to go to the hardware store I tried tightening the other closet bolt and heard a loud pop. Porcelain thankfully wasn't broke, but the weight of the toilet was the only thing holding that in place for several days until I had time to deal with it over the weekend. Learned that metal repair flange brackets exist. Whose bright idea was it to design plastic to hold a metal bolt I'll never know.
My grandson turned 18 today, confirmed he entering a plumbing apprenticeship. He is also a 4.0 gpa student. Color me proud!
Congratulations.. My oldest grandson is only 12 but unfortunately his mom is nauseatingly liberal and doesn't lift a finger to encourage the boy's education. He'll probably come along looking for a better job someday when poor math skills and even worse work ethics find him unemployed...
Waste of a good brain
He has a 4.0 GPA and WANTS to become a PLUMBER?. .. 😅
Controversial take, he wasted a ton of time getting that 4.0 just to go be a plumber. Plumbers a great job but not one you need a 4.0 for. Would’ve been better off spending that time learning plumbing back then
4.0 gpa? He should be doing something more than being a plumber. Nothing wrong with being a plumber but it seems like a waste of his brain power.
I'm not a licensed plumber but I sure have replaced and reset a lot of toilets, I use a nutdriver only; don't use any type of handle as the lever effect makes it difficult to feel just how tight the nuts are. With a nutdriver, your palm is your torque wrench.
That's a great idea/reason.
American Standard uses hand tightened plastic nuts to hold the toilet in place. The toilets seem to be designed for installation by non plumbers and the hand tightened nuts eliminate the need for a wrench to tighten the toilet in place, but my guess is that they designed the nuts to reduce the likelihood of over tightening the nuts by non plumbers.FWIW, this toilet was about a quarter inch out of flat. I thought that was a lot and I thought about taking it back, but I didn't feel like it, so I shimmed it.
That was an eye opener for me. I have broken a toilet when installing it. I was young and used to mechanical work so definitely overtightened it. Since then I have always been afraid to tighten them too much. I have thought the wax ring was too high or too large as some of the toilets I installed still rocked a bit. I see now I didn't use the right techniques to secure it.
Just go back and forth with each bolt just like when you are suppose to tighten a wheel on a car. As so it is flush and doesn't rock left/right then it's good.
If you try to screw in one bolt all the way down you risk putting too much stress unevenly.
I sit on it while I tighten the flange bolts. Rock yourself around a little till the toilet stops settling, before tightening.
@@theguyjt7921I do the same, seems to work for me
I don’t install them very often, but I’ve done it for friends and family enough times that this was a fascinating test to watch; super interesting and exciting at the end! Never considered using a torque wrench, but your test was well thought out and executed. I’m totally sure I’ve never achieved 20 ft-lbs torque in my installs, and was grimacing with every additional increase near the end, perhaps we all were! Never thought it would be THAT much to the fracture point, and that number will probably vary from toilet to toilet, but now we all have a number etched in our brains not to exceed. I’ll definitely bring y torque wrench along for the next one, thanks a ton, for an interesting and applicable video!!
LarryS
That's one tough toilet
Our toilet was set with plastic nuts. We had to replace the nuts a couple times but the toilet is still good to go.
Nice video! I'd be interested in seeing how the washer size affects the torque needed to break the toilet. I've killed a toilet using smaller washers than you used and im almost sure i wasnt applying 19 ft-lb of torque.
OK, we've seen how much torque it takes to BREAK a toilet, so what is the ideal range tightness???? I've digital inch/pound torque wrench so what do I aim for???
Thanks for the video. The only things I would mention about the type of torque wrench you used is that the spring needs to be "worked" before using it. This ensures that the set torque is accurate. This just entails changing the setting the full range multiple times. Also, the spring is recommended to be calibrated every so often.
Earlier this year I replaced my Peerless 1.6 GPF toilet that clogged every time you used it with a proper vintage full flush toilet which actually works, and although I have installed toilets in the past, tightening the bolts always makes me nervous. Luckily the install went great, and the toilet is working well although I could have probably made them a bit tighter, it doesn't shift.
Awesome choice
@@OCC_Plumbing_and_RestorationsIt is a pretty nice toilet, it is a Celite with a side push button which is supposedly sort of rare. I quite like it, I got it from a house that was being remodled.
Love your videos. They’re full of great information.
Some respectful feedback: you’ll get more accurate torques from the wrench by putting your hand in the dead center of the handle. John Cadogan, an automotive expert and engineer, did a deep dive series of videos on this topic.
I have always been worried about breaking a PVC flange when installing a toilet no so much the actual toilet. I have seen a few broken flanges when I pull toilets. I am a huge fan of 5/16 bolts also!
I found the best practice is to use a straight edge and check the floor for flatness, then install the gasket and toilet.
Additional shims along the front,stop any movement.
This is why i use nylon toilet bokts because if somebody falls into it, it will break the bolt and not the toilet. And if you tighten them to much the bolt breaks and thats it...
Roger, this is the most butt puckering video yet. I love it!😂
😂😂
That's a good demonstration. But the older china is a lot more sturdy than the newer china. Also gotta take into effect that every casting is going to be different, having different empurities and voids.
Very true...this china is something else...the bolts kept breaking before the toilet did! It deserves a gold star for strength
Newer china is made in china
As an apprentice,i broke the bottom by the bolt, the whole tank corner changing a handle (or attempting to change- dadgum reverse direction got me on that), and the tank from tank to bowl bolts to the center AND all of the way to the outside edge. They made me learn a lot of stuff the hard way
What size is that hole in the bottom of the pan please. Great videos btw.
Then there's how tight to tighten the bolts that hold the tank to the bowl. Had a friend who had to replace the entire toilet after overtightening the tank to the bowl. Always makes me more nervous to tighten the tank to the bowl than the closet bolts that hold down the toilet.
Yeah I agree I had to cut old bolts and replace them once super scary porcelain on porcelain I got lucky and nothing broke but I thought it was gonna happen for sure😂
1 time is all it takes. Been there, not a fun discussion with your client. I paid for the replacement, and I got a life lesson. Roger keeps it REAL!
I broke my first one in a factory, placing toilets on flat floors. I learned to sit on the toilet first to help seat the wax ring, wiggle my butt a bit, get up and tighten the bolts until I get nervous. Worked 99% of the time. Occasionally had to tighten a few a little more, but my technique worked out well.
What about the tightness on the tank bolts? how much pressure to make the tank or bowl crack?
Thank you!!! Very important knowledge you can't find
I never broke a toilet but let me tell you something.
When i first learned to install toilets i took all day to install a toilet because i was using a ratchet to tighten the bolts. I didnt break the toilet but i kept breaking the bolts and it kept rocking. I was an apprentice but i was non union so i had no one there to ask what i was doing wrong until the journeyman came back from the store and laughed and told me to use a crescent wrench because a ratchet would overtighten the bolts. I had always worked on cars so i was just more familiar with using ratchets. Anyways as i started working on my own i realized the best tool for removing and installing toilet bolts is BY FAR a 7/16 nut driver. My person favorite is klein tools’ 9-in-1 pass through nut driver, its honestly maybe my favorite tool in my whole truck I literally never go into a house without one its so useful.
Nowadays i can replace a toilet in about 20 minutes but every time i install i always remember the time I spent a full day trying to figure out what the hell i did wrong.
Also P.S for the record I actually HAVE broken a toilet before but not by overtightening it, it simply slipped out of my hands onetime and shattered, i ended up paying for it out of pocket so i definitely learned my lesson
hey man good one 8yrs plumbing here i had my share of stories as well 😂, hey what was that tool pass through driver again? i definitely can use one will make my life easier
@@menashelandau4293 klein tools 9-in-1 pass through nut driver its 29.99 at Home Depot id reccomend buying it online
@@menashelandau4293Did uou ever figure it out? I'd also like to buy my own, seems handy
I HATE pulling toilets. That being said, when I get toilet bolts tight enough and it still wobbles...i recommend a pull and reset to inspect the flange bc THATS likely the problem. I tightened up a loose toilet with nylon bolts about a week ago, hearda tick/crack whatever. Now the base of the johny bolt can shift, a caught thread can slip, it made me nervous tho! Even tho thats the hole point of nylon bolts from what ive heard...no callbacks yet and its 2nd floor so I imagine id have heard back by now
In not a plumber but I've changed out several toilets. You should not tighten a wobbly toilet down. If your floor isn't level, use plaster of Paris to level the toilet then tighten down the bolts. I only go about 1/2 turn past hand right.
As soon as you hear the Crack of the porcelain and the crying of your wallet.
By then you're SOL
Been there before lol ffs
Wouldn’t the pvc flange crack before the porcelain toilet?
@@AzeveidoMateusit takes Alot to break that porcelain doesn't need much just a tap from any tool will shatter it
@@AzeveidoMateusnot likely unless it's old and brittle. The ceramic is more delicate.
That was pretty funny. I have found the flange breaks before the toilet. It looked like you had the toilet on a metal flange.
I'm like you Roger, 1 broken in 50 years plumbing learned my lesson as an apprentice 😢😢
Thanks, I as a home owner broke a $250 toilet once. The big box store took it back even after I told them I think I tightened it too much
I have only broken a couple of bowls. Usually, I will tighten it up until I think it is too loose and flush it; if it leaks, I will tighten it up again. I am retired now but I have had more trouble with the tanks. I have broken more than a few of them, installing floats and flush valves, and nowadays, if you break a tank, you almost have to buy a whole new toilet because it is hard to find a tank to fit. I worked in apartment maintenance, so I have replaced a lot of toilets. It is sooo easy to get them too tight.
I snug it up till and it feels tight and it dont move. If it does move and i feel its tight enough id rther shim it then keep tightening. Ill tell you one thing if you ever set a toilet in a cold house dont tighten all the way. Leave room for expansion when it warms back up.
Thanks for sharing.
Not a professional plumber but put in a few toilets in my time and I like using German torque, guten-tight.
That is hilarious. I busted out when you said you broke a toilet . I broke the first one
havent broke one but i had some issues installing using a foam ring as it was harder to compress and the toilet would wobble, had to sit on the toilet and then tighten the bolts to make it feel like it wasnt going to break on tightening.
But after using bleach cleaner and melting the ring causing a leak i just went for the trusty wax ring, also found the bleach based in tank cleaner also melted the rubber seals between the tank and the bowl, and the washers on the tank bolts
Im looking to move to the dallas area. I have 1 year plumbing experience and 3 years as a construction laborer. How hard will be to find a plumbing apprenticeship when i move?
How many ft lbs is 20 inch lbs ?
12 in-lbs per ft-lb. Therefore, 20÷12≈1.66 ft-lbs
With so many different toilets that have been produced, testing one is better than doing none. Lots of variables to consider making a torque wrench a tool to use for this purpose. If the manufacturer stated what torque to use, that would be ideal in a perfect world. Not all floors are even so if there is a sag where the bolts are being tightened, it may be possible that it would crack even with a manufacturers recommendation. Tightening a base has always made me a little nervous even though I have never broken a toilet. Maybe an insert that would take al the torque could be cast into the base such as a tube of steel anchored in the porcelain, then maybe a torque wrench value would become a standard. Great idea for an invention. Thanks for doing this.
Was he tightening both sides, or just the one we saw? Because I think if he did both sides it would have broken faster. There was hardly any tension from the other side.
Interesting !! Thanks Roger. I use a gear wrench and grip it very lightly about 3" from the nut to gently tighten. That's my torque wrench.
Looking cold in your shop man! I also warm the wax ring in cold conditions to get a good squish.
You're a smart man! It was a bit chilly when we filmed this...ready for the heat to be back!
@@RogerWakefield get you a heater in there man.
Choke up on a ratchet, basically holding it next to the nut/bolt, to avoid over torqueing.
Thats definitely a better sturdier looking base than I've ever seen or used on a toilet.
busted toilets are often on out of level floors or loose flanges that just keep getting tightened in a perfect world the bolts dont need very tight and caulk helps a lot
It probably broke earlier in that cold shop than it would in a warm home
I’ve broken several toilets, buts its always been the one I’m already replacing if the bolts aren’t cooperating when pulling
Yeah that's one thing we thought about while testing, the temp was around 35-40° when we filmed this.
The base of the toilet is square, which likely increases structural integrity. It also looks like it's thick as hell compared to a more modern toilet. The area with the bolthole on my toilet is only like 1/2 inch thick.
Yes😫 I have. I just had to turn it a little more 😭
I have sat many a toilet over my 40 years as a homeowner and never broke the bowl overtightening the flange nuts; however, I did break a cast iron flange that was not anchored to the floor. Got to admit, tightening those bolts always makes me cringe a bit. After I set the bowl down on the new wax ring, I carefully on the toilet to seat the wax ring, then run the nuts down then tighten ever so carefully.
This was putting the toilet on a nice clean flat floor. Put it on a not so flat cement or tile floor, something hard and may have little bumps or any debris under the toilet it might snap a lot sooner.
Nylon closet nuts make a world of difference especially on uneven surfaces like tile GAH
Fun fact! That toilet is an eljer hygeian, they’re pretty rare
Really?! Couldn’t find a name on it anywhere
@@RogerWakefield yep! The label probably got worn off, its an old toilet
Did you just do one side of the toilet? That absolutely matters when doing this, the porcelain fights being yanked down on both sides and causes it to split. I'm guessing that's why it took you so long to break it. I've broken a toilet with 2 fingers and a small adjustable and it definitely isnt almost 20ft lbs lol.
I tightened down both sides, one side just cracked before the other
I think he did both sides with different wrenches and the side that he did broke
@@RogerWakefieldyou beat me to it 😅
I was told by pros to use a small wrench (like 6 inch) and use your finger. Once
It gets
Hard with just ur finger ur good.
Like you said, once you break one, you know what it feels like and you never go that far again.
Oh I agree
The only time I've ever broken a toilet at the base is on the old one when the bolts would not come off and it was just too hard to cut them off, so out came the ball peen hammer and with a few taps it was up
DO THIS ON TANK BOLTS! Please 🙏
I don’t put the bolts too tight at all, but I do use plaster of Paris to make sure it’s secure
For the record I’m not a plumber, but an HVAC service tech. During the slow season the residential company I used to work for would have me go out and replace toilets at various places (I’ve done 14 total). I’ve always just slowly tighten those nuts down in slow increments, one after the other, until the toilet didn’t feel wobbly anymore. It was always a nerve wracking experience. One time while tightening one of the nuts down, the end of my ratchet made contact with the toilet making a loud clanking sound, made me jump a mile as I thought I broke it. 🤣
I kept tightening until the toilet stopped wobbling. Then I probably turned the nuts a few more times and called it a day.
So far so good.
thanks for the video. of course, the click is nice but cannot hear over the music. was even hard to break out your voice at times but i think i got the jist.
The shape of that base definitely seems stronger than the plain flat ones.
Don't be fooled, it's all hollow in there
I learned the hard way- 😞 Now i use the wing nuts and hand tighten.
Do it with the tank full I was done about to walk out and had mine crack on me
Man the first crapper I put in I cracked it ugggg, I've done it a few other times since and even put a porcelain toilet in a bus and haven't cracked on since, once you do it you just kinda how how much is enough lol.
Use the German torque - Guten tight
It depends on if the flange is solid or not lol
I broke a PVC flange by overtightening once when I first started, but never a toilet. As long as the toilet is sitting flat and not rocking, all you need to do is snug the bolt. To rock the toilet at that point, you would have to stretch the bolt or bend or break the flange. Physics says that ain't happening under normal circumstances. If the floor is not flat, install shims to keep it from rocking and add grout to create a flat base for the toilet to sit on.
I am looking at replacing my toilet, can I instead use a 1/2" impact wrench to tighten it down? It seems this method would be much quicker
Funny!!! Good luck,hope the toilet store is nearby!
Yup, waaay quicker ... lol😂
I've never broken a toilet but I have pulled the bolts through the pot flange more than once
I have an old school toilet that has four bolts.
I'll bet you couldn't get half that on one of the $100 glacier bay specials
Considering a 1/4” bolt would never be torqued past 30ft lbs in metal applications bolts held in plastic flanges would obviously indicate very low torque.
As with tightening anything down, just tighten down until it starts making bad noises. Then go back half a turn.
Not for nothing, I feel like the porcelain quality from that era would hold up better than any toilet today...just like every thing else in plumbing..
And damn! 19ft/lb? You could throw a tire on a car and the lugnuts would be tight enough to drive halfway across town in a shop 😂
All it takes is one to learn
All fun and games until the flings comes off and you gotta figure out how to put it back on
That table is sooooo flat I bet would bust way less without a perfect surface
Finger tight and one half turn more. Rock toilet to see if it’s secure.
Flange goes crazy 😂
That water closet flange was beefy AF... Try a Pro-Flo toilet.. bet it breaks at 100 in lbs
I have removed and replaced hundreds of toilets and never broke one tighten it down but one made a horrible sound and oh sh@@ but it never broke, but I have destroyed two bowls with a toilet ager. Blew right out the side.
That was nerve racking lol
Very true 😂
I haven't broken a toilet yet, but I've broken a water heater gas control valve.
I think you could have gotten a few more foot pounds out of it if you used a rubber washer underneath the metal one.
I'm more worried about breaking the plastic Oatey flange before breaking the toilet.
Toilet shouldn't be so tight that it can hold up a house it just needs to be tight enough to keep you from falling over.
Personally, I use your approach, but mostly just pray.
These days the flange would break before the toilet
Worse, you may break the flange! I use German torque "Gutten' snug".
I think a new toilet would have broken a lot earlier. Just the quality of the porcelain.
This is y i hate plumbing one time i over tighted a shower head it cracked and started leaking
If you did that test on an uneven typical floor surface it would fail way sooner. Also, not all toilets are created equal.
Tighten till ya here a crunch then keep going till it cracks, even worse on a PVC flange 😂😂 my coworker knows
if the torque wrench makes a click, it;s tight enough. if the toilet makes a click, it's too tight.
Great rule of thumb
What is the point of including the wax in the fail test??
I've never broken a toilet, but I have pulled MANY bolts through flanges. Not sure why so home builders use these stupid flimsy stamped steel flanges. Even if you don't "overtighten" the bolts, the flange itself can't support the weight of an average adult shifting on the seat.
Just a DYIer here. Braking a Toilet is always a concern for me. I will say that you are using your torque wrench incorrectly. You are suppose to grip it by the handle. The knurled part of it. If it is gripped above or at the bottom like you did, The wrench will torque incorrectly. Many do not believe this, but you can watch tubers, doing this test. Keep up the good videos.
Lol, use a nut runner.. what in the hell would have that much space for that big ass wrench
Small tool that won’t allow enough torque to over tighten . Those plastic nut drivers are almost idiot proof