Libertarian REFUSES to have his freedom denied by vegan | Stanford University
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- Опубліковано 28 бер 2022
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TODAY'S VIDEO:
Jed, a libertarian at Stanford University sits down for a debate with Ed.
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How do you think the conversation with Jed went?
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Hello Ed Gaunt ! Huge fan 🙂 I love that you call you’re business none profit when it’s a limited company and that you are acting for a Huge vegan company - ua-cam.com/video/2RfCJoIagAY/v-deo.html
Normally, I can watch the whole thing, no problem. This time, I had to tap out at about 7:30. Your patience and graciousness are incredible.
@@basbleupeaunoire And Mr. Winters’ understanding of metaethics is beyond reproach, which explains why he condones the MURDER of poor, innocent humans before they have the opportunity to even see the light of day. 👶
The fact that he repeatedly asserts that "humans are animals" shows what an abject hypocrite is that MURDEROUS sinner. 😩
Furthermore, it is debatable whether Ed is truly vegan in his outlook, since he recently stated on the national television programme, GBNews, that he believes we ought NOT to ban animal agriculture!
ua-cam.com/video/Sl5GpxLXnuI/v-deo.html
(Go to the 8:15 mark).
Ed! Do a video on scientist rebellion! Mainly vegan scientists doing direct action regarding climate change, which unfortunately is likely the most likely way to reduce the system of animal abuse! SCIENTISTS REBELLION🧬🔬🥼
@@ReverendDr.Thomas What? Biologically, humans are animals. Is this a joke? I don't get it.
Weird that a libertarian basically admits to having their life / morality dictated by an authority. Doesn't sound that free or Liberal.
Its clear he doesnt really think hard about what a libertarian is. Most libertarians dont because its mostly about selfishness. He contradicted himself time and again, showing he is grasping at straws to justify his selfishness.
he's literally a libertarian who relies on authority for moral code 💀 make it make sense
Literally everything that he says is contradictory and he doesn't even notice it. When Ed points out the contradition, he just moves on to a different "argument". Ridiculous.
You're really selfish for supporting vegan diets, completely unbelievable!
@@MrJavacash Please explain
As a “libertarian” does he not realize freedom ends when it infringes on the freedom of others? Hence why murder is illegal.
When libertarians say that, they don't care about anyone else's freedom, they want their own freedom to do WTF they want AND to face no consequences. Its pathological selfishness pretending to be an ideology.
i havent finished the video yet but i hope Ed says that...
edit: and yes, he did.
Someone who starts anything with as an libertarian is a complete piece of garbage and the reason humanity is garbage. Capitalism is poison and the reason why we are in this non-vegan mess in the first place.
Libertarians may have the most selfish ideology I have ever heard. They speak of society but won't do what's needed for said society. Covid 19 protocols, animals, social services, etc
@@satyasyasatyasya5746 I'm afraid you have no idea what libertarianism actually is.
It's fundamentally based on the moral respect and non-aggression principle to others (humans) life for the same symmetrical respect to you. Of course, this is a foundational principle, in practice we every day in order to interact within society, you are implicitly giving away certain degrees of freedom in order to live in society. The limits of these freedom and how they are defined/imposed is the complex and tricky point, where libertarianism is a framework for pushing the limits of humans freedom to its maximum capacity, which history has proven it is the best mechanism for better collective human life, as Karl Popper ellocuently stated.
Libertarianism principles can be also extended to a significant degree to animals, although specism will always and inevitably play a key role here and defending equal freedom principles would be not only unrealistic but also counter-productive.
"Animals should not be given ANY moral consideration, any consideration we give them is "grace". They don't "deserve" anything."
Holy shit this guy is insane. He genuinely thinks the most innocent and defenceless beings on the planet don't deserve any moral consideration whatsoever.
Absolutely vile attitude.
Was also gonna comment that part cuz wow. That hurt my soul to hear.
For a libertarian, he seems too comfortable appealing to authority.
Should we rid the world of Lions, Tiger, Crocodiles plus or the other apex predators. They kill there prey mercilessly, ripping it to pieces, eating it alive sometimes.
@@utube1818 None of those creatures have moral agency, or meaningful agency at all for that matter.
@@utube1818 generally they kill out of necessity. And even in the rare cases of animals that don't, should we base what we as humans do ethically, on the behaviors of other species?
yeahh and defining himself as a part of a collective... many times
I don't think, he had the brain capacity for fully grasping, what being a libertarian actually MEANS...
"If they weren't lower species, why haven't they destroyed us yet?"
- Stanford student, 2022.
🤣🤣🤣
Aaaaahahahahahahhaa this comment has done me 😭😭😭😭
@Harmony May great point
@Harmony May this. Absolutely.
*corona virus entered the chat*
He wants the freedom to take away others freedom.
That is what libertarianism is. They always think they'll be at the top of a libertarian society but they'd be nothing without the social programs and support networks they claim to hate and think we should all do without.
@@satyasyasatyasya5746 Yep, they think they'll be able to take advantage of others for financial gain in a completely unregulated market but more realistically they'll be the ones being taken advantage of. If they were that savvy and manipulative they'd be able to do that now, god knows others are.
@@xtinkerbellax3 In fact, they ARE being taken advantage of right now, in that they are falling for the libertarian grift which serves to weaken any sense of socio-political cohesion and solidarity. They're being duped and their selfishness is whats being used against them.
@@satyasyasatyasya5746 I don't think you should paint them all with such a broad brush
You're misinterpreting everything like vegans always do, how sad and selfish of you!
This guy should be a politician as he doesn't answer a single question Ed gives him.
He did answer. Ed’s paid by corporations to try and sell people on a false premise.
@@lastlime3792 Can you give me the time stamp he says that please?
Dan P re-watch the video. He answered the questions and Ed didn’t have a response that could best his answer/s. It’s not the answers or response Ed wanted which if you watch the video again, Ed needs people to say killing animals for nutrition is wrong otherwise Ed doesn’t have anything but propaganda and money backed by corporations to sell people that it’s morally right to destroy the environment with mass farming and killing animals is okay to protect vegetables and please buy my book. It’s a choice to eat meat or something else(argument he makes is there are other options that don’t kill as many animals and corporations get paid to sell you food but he wants you to also buy processed vitamins....animals will die either to be eaten for food or to make way for his utopia of plants that he makes a profit from selling you🤔if he wasn’t getting paid he wouldn’t be doing what he is doing(which his choice is for money not morals or humanity).
He has answered the questions. It seems to you that you say that only because they don't give you the answers you want to hear.
@@lastlime3792 he didn't answer anything
The guy literally gave no direct answer to the questions when it's quite literally "what do you think about x/should x be allowed in our current system"
He then answers "well x is not illegal in this society" or "well, in a situation that doesn't apply in our current system, it should be allowed"
Note that these are answers to _tangentially related_ questions rather than the questions asked
Dude deserves an award for how gracefully he danced around every damn question he was presented with
Those "dudes" always get rewarded in society, it's about damn time that changed. Why should BS'ers get awarded for being another reason why humanity isn't evolving? Can't even have a conversation with someone who's that closed off to common sense and narcissistic to their core. It's actually a disease in modern society that is plaguing all industries.
Used the same ‘I don’t believe in morality’ argument so many times
The award would be a "promising potential politician award"
Gracefully?
he dodged, not danced, around the questions with his amoral libertarian spiciest logic
You know you’re winning the argument when the libertarian starts basing their arguments on the legal system
He is NOT a Libertarian.
You won the argument good job, did you stop him from eating meat?
Russia reminded us that we’re all still part of nature, the only way you’re trampling on rights, is if you take it by force.
Meaning, you vegans will change nothing unless you take it by force.
As an red blooded American who loves their guns and hunting… good luck with that.
@@Hi-Five-Ghost You need to clarify what your position. As a "red-blooded American" you are FOR taking things by force?
@@trashcarcass nope, I’m just reminding vegans, that life’s not fair, and we’re all still part of nature.
Meaning Russia is a lion taking on Ukraine another lion.
Meaning I’m gonna fight for what I believe in as well, which is my rights as an American, whether or not my ideologies goes against vegan ideologies.
Like hunting and guns.
@@Hi-Five-Ghost You are conflating two seperate issues. First of all, the Ukraine is not "another lion". And for that matter, WE are not lions. Lions will kill cubs when they take over a Pride or territory, and animals will rape, in the wild. Should you be basing your morals on wild animals? Would you kill a child or rape because "life is not fair"? I am an American. I believe in gun rights to protect myself from an unscrupulous government or other attacker(s). I am also vegan. You are not "a part of nature" by FORCIBLY taking another life, whether with a gun or breeding someone into existence to killl them at a fraction of their natural lifespan. If you eat others, that is what you do, whether you kill them yourself, or pay another to do it for you. You seem to place vegans into one ideological box. The fact is, vegans come in all shapes and sizes, sexual orientations, political ideologies, religions, cultures, and ethnic and cultural backgrounds.
Sadly he doesn't realise that the kind of arguments he poses were once used to justify slavery.
oh man your so right! Didn't think of this
I was screaming this the ENTIRE video! Like, dude! YOU were once in THEIR shoes. YOU were oppressed because of your skin color. YOU had no rights!! UGH
I think he does realise this @15:05 and that's why he asked as to why we shouldn't focus on other "more" pressing matters.
@@melissadavis4981 Me too!!!
@MsRafanatic riiiight... I did think at one point he thought of it too and it might have been at that same time... just wished someone would have said it for anyone watching that didn't think of it. Anyways, I hope he takes something away from this conversation.
It’s only in the context of debating veganism that people find “Is it moral to stomp a dog to death on a whim?” to be a challenging question that needs qualifiers before being answered
I was completely flabbergasted over his response to that question. Absolutely ridiculous answer he gave. like he wouldn't try to help the dog if Ed really went off on a pup.
Oh absolutely. They rather back themselves into the most disingenuous and ridiculous statements INSTEAD OF just admitting it's wrong.
You know what would be adorable, if Ed gets a hammer and a puppy in his hands and asks the guy this again. Look me in the eye, look the puppy in the eyes and answer again
there's also the issue of infant circumcision. people rage on about benefits acting like they aren't a sacrifice; chronically infringing on the rights of individuals for the sake of what they personally view as aesthetically pleasing by cutting apart their penis. A simple question of "should we have the right the cut a babies genitals?" becomes difficult to these cutters. They'll dodge around the question just as we see the guy in the video doing. Pulling random points out of their ass but never addressing the actual issue. The mental gymnastics of avoiding answering a question while somehow genuinely believing that they aren't being intellectually dishonest is truly difficult to combat
@@benjaminwescott258oh god, I’m finding the image of ‘Ed really going off on a pup’ absolutely hilarious 😂😂
With many (if not most) people it sadly comes down to the very elementary school argument “I don’t want to and you can’t make me.”😡
you can convince to be vegan if all animals are ready to give each other the same reciprocity, believe in the same basic rights and stop killing each other. this would be a social contract and therefore a vegan argument that I could take seriously.
@@pikapi6993animals dont have a moral compass like human beings do they dont know wrong from right like we do so your argument makes no sense. Also those animals that eat other animals need to eat them to survive, we do not
@@kei-rarararara yes, we do. How many supplements do you take?
And who taught you what is right and wrong? Where can I look up what your definition of right and wrong is? I obviously disagree with it and learned something entirely different
I hope you watched the video because Ed explained it way better. But basically acting in a moral way is using your empathy to recognize when a being is suffering needlessly and pursuing to avoid that. Because we do not need to eat animals or animal products we are continuously acting immorally by putting the animals in factory farms, etc. In terms of the social contract; firstly animals in the wild need to eat other animals to survive, which makes it irrelevant whether they eat animals or not. They argument for veganism isn’t and wasn’t ever that you can’t eat an animal in the context of survival. To add to that, just because something happens in nature does not mean that we should replicate it until it changes in nature. A lion bites a gazelles face off when it is alive and takes it’s time eating while the gazelle is being eaten alive yet I’m sure you’re not an advocate of, or even justify that type of behavior in humans “until the change of behavior is reciprocated by other animals”.
@@sander3649 so it is like avoiding to break up with your partner even though you don't want to be with him anymore, but you have empathy with his suffering and therefore you decide to stay with him? That's what Veganism sounds like to me.
I need to eat animals for survival. Your opinion that humans don't need it is simply wrong. So many people leave veganism because they feel tired and depressed. Meat makes the body happy :) studies confirm that
This guy isn't even a libertarian. He keeps appealing to the law. 🙄🙄
Yeah, when he asked Ed if any of those things (harming various animals) were illegal, I was surprised.
animals are beautifull sentient individual beings
Tbh 9/10 times someone told me they're libertarian they were just a closeted conservative smart enough not to call themself a conservative, 'cause even they know it's not a good look.
@@WhatxDxDxD
It’s “not a good look” in _YOUR_ eyes.
Check out the political compass (I know, not a science, just for reference). Libertarians are non-authoritarian conservatives, Liberals non-authoritarian progressives. Progressives wish to change things, conservatives less so. The idea isn't that whatever the law says is what matters, but that "anything should be allowed [as long as it isn't illegal]". So yeah, conservatives appeal to laws or rules to maintain boundaries, progressives appeal to moral ideas. Doesn't make one or the other any better, communism is part of the progressive spectrum and look how well that's turned out. It's all a matter of balance. Conservatives can be just as moral as progressives, it's just a matter of perspective and how it's measured. Progressives unchecked drift towards chaos, conservatives unchecked drift towards tyranny, neither is optimal.
You can see this guy's brain scrambling like a computer to try and justify his predetermined beliefs while not contradicting himself. "I think only legality matters and not morality, but I support homosexuality fully so in another country where it's illegal I'll try to change the laws." Say what now?
He needs a software update and/or troubleshoot. Does not compute
No, I see a person who wants to discuss and he wants to speak for his view. How interesting would these conversations be if nobody bothered to share their own arguments? These are young people who are studying, processing what they are learning and trying their arguments in discussions. Great.
Yes he is completely non human, zero empathy therefore a psychopath, glad Ed finally brought up empathy at the end it was starting to sound like computer's talking to eachother about mortality
Ed is a master!
@@goranbreskic4304
I see someone trying to defend animal cruelty in any way they can, even if it means going for the most backwards logic they can possibly manage. He’s willing to paint himself as homophobic so long as he can keep torturing animals for his pleasure. I have as much respect and sympathy for him as I’d have for someone defending slavery.
@@funkyfranx
I think he is talking complete gibberish but I don't think that's fair.
He has bought into some kind of Ayn Rand libertarian "selfishness is good" framework. It's remarkably popular with guys this age who think they are just smarter than everyone else and aren't making many friends.
And you can just imagine him on r/libertarian having this nonsense reinforced over and over.
That's why he sat down to talk to Ed. He thinks he's got it all figured out 😳
Random guy: I’m a libertarian
Same guy: morality is whatever the law says
Every libertarian ever
As someone who has been a libertarian of varying strains for almost 20 years, that is completely false. Libertarians oppose the most immoral laws like slavery, jim crow, the drug war, homosexuality bans, and conscription. Libertarians are consistently anti-cop because cops enforce immoral laws. Libertarians don't buy the "I'm just doing my job line". Cops who enforce evil laws are committing evil acts.
anarchist vs libertarian
there's difference
Only a few generations back, this young man’s definition of Government would have treated him dreadfully because of the conventional legalities he speaks so fondly of.
It was only because of protest for change that it stopped. In some States I’m sure it still exists!
I’m astounded that someone who lives in the US and is probably labelled in two so called ‘minority groups’ could be so closed minded to suffering and feel so superior as a sentient being.
Why are you equating human lives with animal lives?
Black people started fighting back and started killing their masters. That's the main reason it all stopped. Animals unfortunately can't fight back.
@@intermilan9731because humans are animals, and our actions don’t exist in an ecological vacuum.
Exactly what I was thinking. ❤
I will never get tired of listening to the way Ed conducts himself in these conversations. Simply amazing.
Laws can say been vegan is the only way you can live so the law can have a certain position and what would you say if the law was on the side of vegans and a plant based eater currently by law was protesting to get meat
Yes, 2 minutes in and I'm so annoyed!!
You can do this as well anyone can don’t just listen be the change you want to be.
@@jackbauer5455 you can try. I do think Ed is a cut above though. There’s plenty of vegans online, many get visibly angry and frustrated in situations like this and their effort then works against their goal.
@@nottopcat5956 he’s definitely the best.
His argument in a nutshell:
- We have canine teeth
- Might makes right
- Legallity = morality, but only in the situations he wants it to be
I'm pretty sure Stanford should have higher standards than this.
good summary
Canine teeth inform diet. Might makes right is your twisted bs.
Legality should follow morality, it is a reflection, or should be a reflection, of the ethics of a society. The ethics being the sum morality of that society.
If you want to investigate a society's view of murder, checking whether they outlawed it is a good first step.
Just because legality and morality are not the exact same doesn't mean there isn't a clear relation.
@@Cowz19999 murder IS illegal.
@@gianthills I see that went straight over your head...
What is and isn't illegal depends on the country you're in. Good thing I didn't specify and real countries or societies cause it's a hypothetical.
Ed has so much integrity in how he communicates and I hugely respect him for that. He is non-combative, fair, and respectful. Ed is awesome! It it sad that very few people he interviews bring the same integrity and fairness. We humans can be so selfish.
I love shellfish. Do these count?
He’s so respectful to even people who don’t respect him
He is a good person and is genuine. However, he is very wrong. That is the tragic part.
He trying to convert other people to his own dumb beliefs. He a danger to society!
And Ed never lets other people try to convince him to be un-vegan. He a hypocrite. It is not a one-way street. All vegans are the same.
Thank you for making these videos! You're the best Ed!
"I don't want to and I don't believe there’s any obligation." - Also uttered by every racist slave owner and men forcing themselves on women. The moment you put YOURSELF in THEIR shoes is the instant you begin to THINK of it differently.
Well said.
I think given the man in question is African-American, I think there are plenty of other examples you could have gone with in order to make the same point. This is distateful.
exactly my thoughts. it's so tiring to see how cognitive dissonance kicks in and instead of humbly accepting being wrong, no. he will try to rationalize everything as long as it means he has no obligation to stop funding literally a systematic holocaust. but that is how ignorant people act who never truly suffered in their lifes. but the whole body language, the clothes - it's obvious that he cares a lot about what the hivemind thinks of him. thats probably also why he doesnt really dare to state an own opinion as if he doesn't even have one - no instead he behaves like some form of representative of the hive mind. the willful ignorance is so tiring, especially if they all shrug systematic murder off as if there is not even an obligation to speak about such obvious immoral tragedies.
@@swarming1092 I agree as well as a black vegan, it’s a really tacky example that isolates a large part of the community
He looks like he´s from overseas. Slavery doesn´t resonate with them.
"as a libertarian" oh god
😄
That's a bad start .
i’m a borderline libertarian too lol. supporting individual liberties means, if nothing else, not violating the liberty and autonomy of others, aka not eating animals. and ofc u can support free markets and drug legalization and all the rest while also being vegan. bad arguments from this guy 🤧
@@VeganSanatani Better than as a vegan.
I know, saw that comment while watching and it made me laugh out loud immediately 🤣. The more so called academically bright some people more, the less common sense they have. Comments such as "animals are lower than humans" not even astute enough to question their own rhetoric and question the reasons for their own misguided (by no fault of their own) beliefs.
It beggars belief to listen to such nonscence based on paradigms that so called "intelligent " people don't wish to question, consider from different perspectives to bring about an understanding of actual "Truth".
Good grief!
As a libertarian, the natural conclusion I came to was to become vegan so as not to infringe upon the rights of other individuals.
Hilarious
@@binathere2574 Logical.
That actually makes a lot of sense. You are using your liberty and freedom to choose to live in a way that allows other sentient beings to live a life of happiness and freedom and not be enslaved and murdered for other people's pleasure. If human animals deserve to be free, so do non human animals. You might be the world's first altruistic libertarian.
Very true!
As a lifelong libertarian, this is pretty much where I'm at now. Vegetarian for 2 months, currently transitioning to veganism.
I visibly cringed and was in deep pain when he starts off the discussion with "but canines tho". Can't believe that's still an argument. Don't know if I can sit through this one.
yeah, canines and protein in 2022, just from a trend-awareness perspective are beyond cringe. he should have gone with the post 2020 trend of "crop deaths" 😂 smh i can't with these avoiditerians
Somehow I don't think my teeth would be able to rip a live animal apart! I've never understood the 'humans have canines and so were made to eat meat" argument!!!
@@margb8161 I have thumbs and hands therefore anything I can do with them I should do! It's fucking braindead.
@@BugJuiceFlavor You probably missed it, but the comment you were referring to talked about eating live animals (example: cheetahs eating their live prey), not meat-eating humans chewing on *cooked* food with their molars.
@@BugJuiceFlavor are we primal humans now?
When people use *"Live & let live"* as an argument AGAINST veganism with ZERO sense of irony. 👌🤦♂
Human tho... wait
American citizen human tho
@@tinyjungle_ wait, productive American citizens tho
chickens, fish, and pigs eat meat. your comment is just stupid, and your vegan cult veiws are invalid
@@carolinafantinati9514 wait, dog tho
It's not a live and let live argument, it's a live and don't impose your ideologies on me argument. Live and let live is the leftie hippie perspective, why don't we just like change the world for the better by singing kumbaya together dude, wouldn't that just be like so rad? The libertarian perspective is just don't tell me what to do if I'm not violating any laws. They can still be open to reason like this man was, but they don't believe in moral imposition, and even though I am vegan neither do I. I didn't become a vegan because stupid obnoxious hippies who think they're always morally right and superior, just like every communist has in the past, told me to, but because it makes sense to me, because I had the free time and interest/motivation to explore veganism, new recipes, looking for hours upon hours at grocery store ingredients lists, etc. Put another way I had the privilege of time, money and energy to invest in something new. If I was always exposed to stupid obnoxious arrogant vegans who were trying to force me to eat plants I would probably become one of those people that would eat meat in front of vegans for shit and giggles. I don't care about your self-righteousness, moral superiority complex or virtue signaling. I care about reason, positive impact, and not bothering other people needlessly on behalf of my moral superiority and white savior complex, something you guys could learn from so you don't end up like someone like Stalin and accidentally end up killing hundreds of times the number that Adolf killed under the self-delusion that you can't do anything wrong if your ideas makes you feel good.
This guy's argument is literally if the governments says it's good I follow. He's literally just avoiding admitting his stance
The thing that gets me about his "is it legal" argument is that as a Black man, he should know about the Jim Crow era and Black Codes - things that were legal and the government said were okay that were obviously not okay and not morally justifiable.
@@emetatron I agree, however, I admire Ed for not raising all that. I'm sure you do too. It was the elephant in the room which made the whole thing quite ironic and not in the respondent's favour. I've heard carnists protest that veganism can't be justified on the basis of comparisons with MLK's fight for racial equality. However, I recently heard that MLK's wife was vegan. I could be wrong... but it does draw the relationship between racial inequality and carnism a bit closer.
WHILE BEING LIBERTARIAN...the dudes who don't want any government, want government to dictate what they feel. insane
@@emetatron I don't think he ever said that it was I just think he was using that as an excuse also you have to look at the position/ perspective people are coming from if he did start talking about that I'm sure you could make an argument that it would be more justifiable to argue for the rights and freedoms of the poor, the millions who are dying of starvation, the over explotation of many places in Africa especially Congo. I do agree with Ed btw, but the question about caring about other things is a good one, and truly we can only care about so much in this world, and the fact of the matter is although it isn't wants that makes it "right" but it is wants that makes it drive, In other words it is Ed's wants that drive him to do what he does and care for the things he does equally, more, or less than anything else, even when it was Illegal to keep slaves it was wants that keep white people, white supremacists, kkk groups to keep doing what they WANT they didn't care about rights so he arguing more for wants while not really acknowledging "rights" that's why he agreed with alot of what he said I thought it was a great conversation tho Ed is great to listen to
and he completely contradicts himself 2 minutes later by saying "in a country where homosexuality is illegal, i support it fully and we should try to change the laws"
He said it is cruel, still he will do it because he wants to. This really is sad, because this means we live in a deliberately cruel world full of narcissists
please help us shut down Pet Rescue Center. They upload 3 videos a day. Report their channel. Spread the news. Don't write too many negative comments because they will delete them and block you. and don't try to talk to the viewers because they are absolute morons who believe everything they see. A man yesterday donated 50 dollars. I live in Vietnam and the police are laughing at me. Help, please.
That's a pretty big jump. "Hey, that Hitler guy was a mass murderer. That's really sad because it means we live in a world full of mass murderers."
I don’t think it’s that simple. There are many cruel things about human nature for sure, but you have to remember we have all been raised in a world that deliberately shields us from the actual harm associated with our decisions. We are deliberately raised to “other” animals, and we have a hard time connecting our decisions to their harm. Even if someone is a compassionate person in their heart, changing the way they’ve always thought doesn’t usually happen in one conversation.
@@annebannan9817 yes I tend to agree. Some of us are more capable of change, some others are programs of the Matrix or agents who promote evil industries for greed.
Going by his way of thinking, slavery would never have been looked upon as a bad thing, and even if it was, so what, HE wants to do it so sod everyone else, hypocrite.
During this entire interview this so-called Libertarian blurted-out every excuse imaginable to justify his addiction. He could have just stated what he said at the end: "I don't want to." And this is what nearly all non-vegans really mean when confronted with reasons to denounce their food addictions of animal flesh.
It's because of people that think and argue like him that it took so long for all people to have equal rights by law.
Animals arent people. No matter how much you try to change the meanings of words, you fail.
This what I thought immediately. I am always struck by the fact that particularly women or People of Colour deny other beings their equal rights. They should know how it is to be deprived of fundamental rights...
@@zinswurst5691 animals are not people. If you believe every being has equal rights maybe you can prevent animals from hunting each other. Maybe a goat should be permitted to vote?
@@zinswurst5691 Women and black ppl aren't deprived of any fundamental rights, it's naive to think "oh because you're a woman you have fewer rights, therefore you should understand oppression" when the reality is women have the same rights as men in many parts of the world, like in the USA where this interview takes place. So they don't know real oppression. It has been a minute since all people have the same rights in "developed" countries, so younger generations in particular, don't know any oppression other than the occasional treatment of individuals or the one that comes from ignorance believing they have less rights.
@@GenshinIdiot "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.” -- George Santayana
I believe no one should be given a free pass to exploit and abuse animals irrespective of their ethnic/political/religious/economic background if they're in a position to be vegan.
Coming from a dark skinned person from India.
Which state bro?
why the fuck would your last sentence matter? lmfao.....
@@FixdalOK Maharashtra.
@@MukulVyas5 Cool! I visited Mumbai back in 2012, loved the place.
@@FixdalOK Nice to know. But Mumbai sucks IMO. 😶😅
This young person that Ed is interviewing is fascinating. Like so many gifted people this young person is so brainwashed that they cannot have a reasoned conversation. Fascinating.
Gifted? He was as dull as dishwater!
He is just reciting what he has been taught, just a robot that’s been programmed without the ability to think for himself.
"gifted"?, why?, laughable.
_"We can't think about the animals while there is still human exploitation."_
sounds like
_"We can't think about women's rights while there are still enslaved men."_
As if not eating carnist foods is that difficult anyway...
Just cuz it has the same sentence framing doesn't mean it's the same thing
@@jessie6600 Same thing. "Can't think of one problem while there are other problems".
@@Azarilh okay ur right they’re pretty much the same. But, the implication in both of those is that one problem is way bigger and more pressing than another so it should be taken care of first.
@@jessie6600 It's not difficult to simply not discriminate multiple categories of groups, on a personal level.
I think his arguments were clumsy and he made some very questionable and scary statements but the dialogue was very respectful and calm. The conversation went around in circles but I do appreciate how they both spoke.
He was much more composed than that damn Native Americans Ate Meat So I Can Too girl
@@veganvanguard8273 yes, she was a scary individual!!!
Also remember that Earthly Ed is much more prepare. When he goes and does this he knows what he is doing the people that talk to him are just stumbling in not necessarily being prepared at all.
The point of these coversation is exactly that, to HAVE a conversation. This means people's thoughts are not necessarily completely elaborated. Bit that's what earthly Ed is trying to do to provoke people to think more.
Important work
Yeah like when Ed asked him if he would be ok with him stomping a dog to death and he was just like well is that legal here? Like wtfff
@@gracepearson5905 it seems he'd rather die on that hill, than admit it leads to very problematic implications. Definitely a wtf moment
Some humans just argue for the sake of it. They couldn't care less about how the most innocent, gentle and the voiceless are violated as long as they are filling their greedy mean SPIRTS. Thank you Ed for your GRACE.
This is a student. He wants to debate, yes. Where is the problem? It doesn't mean he is greedy and mean. Goodness. You do understand that it's hard for most people to question their own established traditions, habits, childhood memories, and so on? These things often take time and you rarely change your mind the very second you hear a better argument. It's also very hard to accept that you yourself have been supporting a cruel system. I'm vegan, but I just read a horrofying article about pig's slaughter in my country (Sweden), written by a vet student. I had no idea such methods were still used in Sweden and I can tell you that if it wasn't written by an expert in animals, I would have doubted the accuracy. It is simply hard to believe when you've always been told how humane we are to pigs in Sweden.
This is literally a stand to invite people to have a debate. What do you think it was going to happen?
Spirits come and go like everything else if you allow them to.
So tell why vegans support abortion.
@@mirodski1662 That when you are told that an innocent individual is stabbed to death and their body chopped into pieces because of your choices, should naturally make you stop supporting this and live a life free of cruelty and violence.
It’s seems like this man sat down because he likes to hear himself speak and he values being able to formulate responses, regardless of how unreasonable devoid of empathy those responses are.
“I do not operate with the idea of morality” i would appreciate it if every meat eater entering a debate opened with this it would make things so much easier
Yes, vegans who also kill animals (and humans by malnourishment) have the moral highground🤣
@@kekkers5751 you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about and it's incredibly embarrassing and hilarious
@@nigel615 ua-cam.com/video/pN4LT_f86AU/v-deo.html
What a pompous, deluded worldview one must have to believe that 90+% of the world have no morality simply because you disagree with their dietary choices. Demonising and ostracising everyone else isn't exactly a good way of spreading your message.
@@LionXV1 get mad lol
"i could stop abusing children but i don't want to"
🤦🏻
Well that's illegal, so he wouldn't say that.
More like tiny human babies. Don't the left already unapologetically mass kill these with no sense of irony whatsoever because they just couldn't possibly think of the idea of pulling out at the end?
@@Szandi90 legality ≠ morality
@@Szandi90 of course he wouldn't. that's why it's so ridiculous.
This dude is literally saying that you should have the choice to stomp kick a dog to death if you wanted to.
This is why I can't talk to people like this, I'd lose my shit.
HUGE respect to you, Ed! You have a tremendous amount of patience and empathy. Thanks for all the work you do!
Well, at least consistent. Mostly it's the double standards with different animals...I'd lose my shit on that too.
@@kleinefussel9 Why? Some animals are bred to eat. Others are bred to be pets. What's wrong with that
The thing is, we don’t need to eat animals for sustenance. We can get our proteins and nutrients from a vegan diet. We don’t need to kill animals. Therefore, is it moral to needlessly kill someone ?
Libtard talk 😢
@@intermilan9731 First of all, that entirely depends on culture - horses, dogs, guinea pigs, rabbits, are all considered pets by some and food by another. Secondly, our breeding for traits changes nothing about an animal's sentience. A beef cow may have more edible muscle than an Arabian horse, but both animals experience equal pain, joy, fear, and pleasure. Causing pain and suffering in a cow and removing its potential to experience joy and pleasure by slaughtering it young is unchanged by the fact it carries more meat.
"We're better off focusing on our own species and getting our own house in order.."
I'm pretty sure that if we as a species went fully plant-based, we'd be partially reversing climate change and systematically improving health.
Ed's ability to pick up on where someone's morality is currently sitting and then walk them step-by-step through analogies to the point where their starting point seems completely irrational is truly brilliant!
8:27 "I do not operate with the idea for morality."
It's really reckless for the robotic engineering students to let their projects wander around the school like this.
Hahaha . I also thought he sounded and talks like a robot
Ah ah, after this nonsense fest, your comment cheered me up ! 😆
Maybe he is a ‘fresh’ ‘Eternals’ droid:)
🤣😭💀
@Sarah Perkins rotflol 😂💀😆
The "libertarian" is one of the biggest excuse machines I've ever seen. He's vying to be the Master Chef of word salad....
Spends too much time in libertarian grift forums I'd guess.
Which one is jed?
I'm Libertarian, I leave animals alone and want to Defund animal ag subsidies that make meat so cheap also stop fining childfree tons to not over-populate when 52% of wildlife has been killed off. Sure pros and cons but gov has not been great to animals or wildlife
@@BirdmanVeganFuture oh thats awesome..see, that sounds libertarian..this dude sounds like the opposite of one, doesn't he? Cuz i know libertartian folks to want government to F off more so, while this dude wants government to control the way he thinks. ya?
you everywhere :D
It’s so scary to realize that a lot of people think like Jed. They follow the rules and don’t step outside the line. Will do whatever they’re told, never question their actions or consider how they affect others. This mentality is not progressive or productive but is limiting.
Meat taste good---end of discussion.
Nicely done. It is so interesting to see how your arguments have developed and how you've developed this style of going down the same paths that they always want to go down, showing them it is a dead end and then showing them a simpler path. They never want to go of course, insisting that maybe they can climb over or go around, but you always lead them back.
Ed's patience is... admirable, yes, that's the word... admirable.
I praise Ed for it. I would be screaming at these people because they're arguments are so dumb.
the moment he said "as a libertarian .." I already knew exactly how Ed would go about debunking his talking points... brilliant job once again @Earthing Ed
Yes, Mr. Winters’ understanding of metaethics is beyond reproach, which explains why he condones the MURDER of poor, innocent humans before they have the opportunity to even see the light of day. 👶
The fact that he repeatedly asserts that "humans are animals" shows what an abject hypocrite is that MURDEROUS sinner. 😩
Furthermore, it is debatable whether Ed is truly vegan in his outlook, since he recently stated on the national television programme, GBNews, that he believes we ought NOT to ban animal agriculture!
ua-cam.com/video/Sl5GpxLXnuI/v-deo.html
(Go to the 8:15 mark).
A beautiful discussion. Great job on this one, Ed!
No, this was not a discussion. Ed's "discussion" partner didn't answer a single question really and only responded with questions towards Ed. (which he did respond all to)
Slaves: "We're suffering, we're dying. Please. Help"
Master: "Interesting argument dear sir, while I am not saying you are incorrect in your argument persay, the law as it is written gives us the right to treat you as property, therefore I think it is moral, because we have decided it is between ourselves. When the law changes, I might help support your argument"
Yep.. definitely the kind of mindset that drives change. Passive af...
Also master: "I really respect your opinion. Maybe a couple of centuries from now, we'll have that public debate"
I think the comparison with slavery is a little crass...
@@user-cy7dx1wh3d it's pretty fkn similar my dude. They're just our species
@@user-cy7dx1wh3d Why is it crass? We are animals before we are human. And also, comparing two systems of oppression doesn't undermine the victim in either; in fact, drawing such analogies heightens the oppressions of both.
@@user-cy7dx1wh3d why?
Thank you, Ed. It’s apparent that he doesn’t “want” to acknowledge animal rights, but you gave him every intelligent reason to so. At least this video will help other empathetic humans!!! 🙏🏻🐮🐷🐶🐓
Show me the the part in the constitution where it says animals have rights and get to vote.
@@gianthills Show me the part where other cognitively impaired individuals, such as human babies, are allowed to vote.
@@radiocorrective Human babies do vote as soon as they're old enough. Let me know when you can make the case for animals.
@@gianthills You entirely missed the point. I could continue and expand my argument but it's unnecessary because you'd still not understand the orginal point. Why exactly would you want cognitively impaired individuals to vote? And why do you think one deserves to be opressed, exploited and harmed overall if they are not capable of voting? Since when does intelligence decide who it is fine to discriminate against? If you are of lower intelligence than me, does that mean I get to decide how to use you for my own benefit? Might makes right is it? With power doesn't come great responsibility it seems, more like great exploitation of the innocent, weak and defenseless.
Reply when you've understood my orginal clowning of your take lmao
@@radiocorrective YOU miss the point. animals are NOT people. bye bye.
This superhuman level of patience is exactly what I seek to emulate in my own outreach conversations.
Watching your debates inspired me to get up off my ass and start filming public conversations just like this and I'm so happy I did!
Amazing work!
👏 👏 👏
Well done 👏 ✔ 👍🏼
Leeettssss gooooooo
I love your work too
@@jys365 Thanks! Happy to hear it!
Ed: Solid argument
This guy: “Ultimately” + complete nonsense
No you just don’t understand or you just not listening properly
@@johnfreeman9358 please explain it to us, then.
😆😆😆
@@johnfreeman9358 🤡
This guy is living proof that you don't need to be smart to get into elite level schools...
You just need to be a good speaker and convincing.
right, just be a human supremacist.
Can't believe he is in Stanford 🤦♂
I guarantee he’s smarter than you
I understand you want to support veganism, lets not strip people of their capabilities in their respective field just because they dont agree to the premise
"As a libertarian I think I have the right to take away the liberty of other animals"
We are OMINORES, therefore eating animals is not immoral. Every species of animal, including humans, is healthiest and happiest eating that which they've evolved to eat. We don't feed omnivores in zoos vegan diets for that exact reason, even though they could survive on plants.
What is disturbing is your lack of compassion for the many humans who suffer immensely (especially those with autoimmune disorders) as a result of your guilt tripping them into thinking they're doing something immoral by eating the diet their ancestors have been eating for literally millions of years. Truly pathetic.
@@justinberber9848 just because we have the physical capacity to do sth, it‘s not automatically moral. There is no necessity to exploit other animals, so there’s definitely a moral issue when we‘re doing it.
@@justinberber9848 ok genius, first of all, we are all facultative omnivores, we can literally cut all animal products from our diets and be completely healthy adopting a whole plant based diet, which its proven by lots scientific research (big studies from organisations like the ADA and the PNAS) that I believe you didn't know. We literally lack from a lot of obligated omnivores characteristics, that's probably why meat is directly linked to diabetes2 and coronary heart disease.
We are not wild animals, we have gigantic chains of mass production in which innocent animals are brought to existence to be exploited by humans UNNECESSARILY. When all this suffering becomes unnecesary (due to the social, economic and cultural conditions we have now, like going to a market and buy stuff), therefore, individually supporting animal farming for an, I repeat, unnecessary reason, it is not morally justifiable
@@justinberber9848 bruh you even thrown that ancestors shit argument 💀lmaaao. Like if you know what ancestors had been eating everywhere in the world, like if modern refrigeration systems were from thousands of years ago. Come on...
@@justinberber9848 and the comparison with our ancestors is so mediocre. Longevity doesn’t equal Morality. With that kind of lethargic thinking, rape, enslavement and violence would be still socially accepted. You‘re just outing yourself as an insecure and static small cog.
Whenever someone suggests we focus on human rights before animal rights, I have to question what humanitarian efforts they're involved in that makes them incapable of reaching for a block of tofu instead of meat in the supermarket. I find the people making this claim rarely stand for anything that doesn't directly affect them. "I don't want to" is probably the only honest thing Jed said
Kinda agree, but I don't think his other statements were necessarily not honest. He will just hopefully see that they are empty and change them!
@@birchtree14 He justified some pretty horrible things, so I was assuming he didn't actually believe them and was just going along with it to appear logically consistent. Was giving him the benefit of the doubt but who knows 🤷🏻♀️
1. Someone doesn't need to be involved in anything to have that opinion.
2. Your anecdote of what you "find" about people standing for things doesn't substantiate the position that anyone ought consider animal rights. It also is not sufficient evidence to determine anything about Jed.
3. Your unsubstantiated assumption about Jed's honesty is just a baseless personal attack against him that has nothing to do with his positions.
@@cloudoftime is this Jed responding? If so, feel free to illuminate me if the things I've clearly framed as *assumptions are incorrect. Likewise, feel free to tell me your argument against veganism
*note the deliberate use of words in my comment such as "I feel like" and "probably" to avoid making erroneous claims
@@cloudoftime of course people don’t need to be involved with anything in order to have an opinion, that’s not at all what they were saying. What they were saying is that Jed was disingenuous when it came to Ed’s points and it came across as him not caring about “smaller” issues because there are a number of “larger” issues plaguing our world. A similar train of thought to “why are you depressed? Don’t you know that people have it worse than you?”, social justice issues aren’t mutually exclusive, just like Ed said. If you are in a position where you have the ability to go vegan then going vegan does not harm your ability to advocate for other social issues. Individual veganism is about you reducing the suffering that you contribute to and it is also about not supporting the very industry that treats living, sentient beings with the ability to feel physical and emotional pain as a resource to fuel human selfishness. You don’t lose anything by going vegan, it doesn’t harm you, it doesn’t take away your ability to function regularly. We have the wonderful opportunity to be able to sustain ourselves without needlessly harming an animal. When the change is so minimal then why bother saying “we should focus on other, more pressing issues” if not to try and justify your contribution to the animal farming industry? It doesn’t make sense to try and dismiss veganism in that way. But when someone does say that in response to why they aren’t vegan it implies that they are too focused and that they are too involved in other humanitarian/social justice issues to make that transition into veganism. It implies that they cannot make that individual switch because they’re too busy advocating for other causes, but they rarely ever are. It’s ridiculous to me to even cover this because, like I said before, if in a position to be vegan the switch into veganism is not at all taxing for you. You are still allocating the same time to eat, you’re just not eating meat. Being vegan doesn’t mean that you are immediately a vegan activist, and can therefore not allocate the same amount of time that you dedicate towards other forms of activism, it just means that you are trying to do better as an individual by not eliminating meat and other animal products from your diet.
I hope that this maybe clarified a few doubts in your mind on the basis of veganism. I’m not addressing the rest of your points because they are beyond the scope of veganism.
If you have any other questions regarding veganism I would love to talk to you further in order to better inform you about what being vegan is. I’m not here to judge you or attack you for anything, I just want to have an open and sincere conversation with you (or anyone reading this for that matter) in regards to veganism and why I chose to be vegan. You can reach me on Instagram, my username is agnosthetic.
This must be really exhausting for Ed. The struggle is real. Let's choose compassion. ❤
Yes, as a libertarian you want to be able to do anything your body, life and head wanted you to do, as long as you don't violate the freedom and the life of others though. By killing a libertarian animal, you take its liberty away. How do you want to deserve freedom but never permit freedom? Doesn't feel right.
Libertarianism is based on contract rights and the principle of non aggression, if a "libertarian animal" can consent to NAP with you and respect your private property rights and also respect all the rights/rules/laws within the libertarian contract jurisdiction , then yes, killing such animal would be a crime, as you both agreed that you wouldn't kill each other as part of a contract.
I agree with you, but wtf is a "libertarian animal"
Animal don't come under human concepts. Human concepts are for our fellow society members, not for random chickens and cattle
"It is only when we become concerned for the totality of sentient beings that our morality attains it's highest level." - Charles Darwin
which text is this from?
@@Xonline9 Matthieu Ricard mentions this quote is his book A Plea for the Animals. I did not have free access to his bibliography though. Hope this is helpful have a wonderful day
*its
@@christophebedard696 That's also where I got it from! 🙊The note at the back of the book says The Decent of Man, and Selection in Relation to Sex.
@@Sergio2006A Autocorrect happens.
17:19 “30% of difference in taste pleasure.. that lasts only for 15 minutes.. has more value than their whole life and existence and everything that they hold valuable to them.. gone” …. This broke me 💔😭
it’s even more sad that the guy doesn’t even acknowledge what ed said and instead responds with something unrelated
Pretty sad to hear
@@rogergalindo7318 Agree 😔
I followed Mic the Vegan for quite a while but as someone who suffers from depression & low self esteem, my own health wasn’t enough to make me go vegan. Finding your videos & learning about the ethics was. I love animals, and now I can truly say it with pride. ❤
Amber. I hope your health is much better than it has ever been. Thank you for choosing compassion. All the best.
The irony here is he Jed wanting to get our own house in order but fails to see that he is the type of people who is preventing that from happening. Ed's patience is extraordinary!
Ed, you’ve changed me from eating a plant based diet as much as possible for health reasons, to eating no animal products for moral and health reasons. Going to try and switch to not purchasing things like leather or wool soon. Doing brilliant 🤩
Hell yeah!
great to hear !
i have to say, the hardest part about going vegan for me had nothing to do with food, the hardest part was no more leather. finding non leather shoes that suit my taste is so hard that when i find a pair of shoes i like i just buy 2 for when the first pair wears out. also no more leather jackets... how am i supposed to let the world know how cool i am?
You can be proud of yourself Joe. Thank you for being Vegan.
Great! Keep it up!
One word for this guy - conceited (not Ed, obviously). Asks a question which Ed answers and all he does is completely ignore Ed's response and tries to sound smart again. What a closed-minded person.
And he thinks he’s so open minded
I really hope he does reflect back on this conversation later on. Unfortunately it takes some people a few days to process things. Hopefully he does self reflect...
You guys are really terrible judges of character, both historically and currently. Fortunately Ed isn't, you should pay more attention to him. He's given up far quicker on many people that everyone in the comment section loved, because no offense you're acting like naive and gullible children who thinks everytime a person smiles or pretends to be on your side they're super cool, your judgements are like that of children watching the teletubbies - teletubbies smile? Teletubbies good!!!!
@@SourceChan What are you on about? Historically and currently? Huh? Your comment is very confusing
@@smifaye In previous videos and in this one, namely your comment.
I wish this guy would just answer one question directly rather than pulling out his philosophy bag and answering questions with irrelevant questions. Great job Ed.
Another fail argument against veganism. “I’m libertarian”. Well, that is a new one
He's not a Libertarian.
@@trashcarcass not even close
Ed's monologue from around 22:40 was really quite powerful and brilliantly said. Such a credit to the vegan movement to have someone as talented as Vegan Jesus on our side
The most impressive thing about that monologue is that he didn't attack the man's ridiculous world view about how we're all better off and how we're proven right because the animals haven't destroyed us. It's crazy talk. I mean, first, are we better off? With animal agriculture? Certainly not. And secondly, every other species of animal on the planet has not been destroyed. Humans have existed for 200,000 years. CROCODILES HAVE EXISTED FOR 250 MILLION YEARS! You cannot say that everything we do is right and justified simply because we exist.
I’m 100% convinced that they guy being interviewed is a meat eating robot
What I love about this debates is how it shows how ridiculous non-vegan arguments are, and how being a vegan is a no brainer.
It’s not though. If I want to eat chicken then I’ll eat chicken and won’t feel bad about it.
@@thewhitesaucecompany I don’t know what’s funnier: your unoriginality or your grasp of the English language 😂.
@@llamatreee you don’t feel bad because you have no idea how it feels like to be the victim.
@@thewhitesaucecompany I’m a victim of your attempts to speak English. It’s causing me immense pain to read your scribbles.
The only weirdo are Ed and Vegans.
Once again Ed displays superhuman patience
How did this guy make it to Stanford lmao “might makes right” and “canines tho” within the first 60 seconds
He’s probably extremely book smart and excels in a different field. Veganism is new to a lot of people so even really intelligent people will have odd takes about it
@@mochimochi6357 that’s true I’ve seen otherwise smart people make some of the absolute worst arguments against veganism, Neil degrasse Tyson Literally used “plants feel pain tho”
he uses big words
So there's this thing called quotas. . .
@@ZwrotPL dang- that's inappropriate
I kinda find it crazy he wouldn't stop someone abusing a dog...
He would, he just doesn't want to admit it to a vegan.
Also crazy he had to ask if it was legal !
by the sounds of..he has no sense of personal morals.
he's one of those people who doesn't do evil because of the law. scary that such people exist.
Everything he focuses on was mainly about legality.
@@spaceylacey83 no, this man wouldn't help
Yeah that was sad. We are not machines programmed by some laws, we are human beings!
Wow, Ed! You were amazing throughout this interview. You consistently deduced the main concept in an argument and returned to it whenever the subject veered off track. You have such an amazingly amiable and thoughtful way of changing hearts and minds. Grateful for you as a leader in spreading the compassionate word.
All opinions aside I am very impressed that both sides were able to have a mature conversation without getting emotional or angry...if we could all communicate like this our country would be in a better place. Thanks Ed for setting a great example of how it is done.
it's easy when you don't have any stake in the discussion. no matter the outcome of the discussion you know nothing changes so you don't get emotional...
sadly some people get emotional even in this case.
The animals want their "freedom" just like Jed does.....
@ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ٴ Babys with brain damage don't care about our wants so why should we care about theirs?
@ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ٴ Why? I want to know your reasons. I wouldn't kill a baby human nor a baby cow
@ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ٴ What is this logic?
You really want me to hate the word "libertarian" don't you ?
Meanwhile, the Political Compass Tests wants you to hate everyone who hates it 😂
Props for the comedy factor lol, much appreciated and needed in these comment sections😁
Libertarianism is about respecting others equal rights, to not unjustly deny freedom to others, to basically let others do what they want as long as they dont touch or endanger others property. If he doesn't want his freedom denied, he shouldn't deny it to the animals. animals own themselves. humans and animals have equal rights.
@@bvegannow1936 Here's the issue. Are you going to deny the freedom of an ant to live by walking in the forest and stepping on it? Are you going to deny the freedom of your or your family's or friend's pets by not allowing them to roam freely? Everyone has to set their pretty arbitrary threshold for everything somewhere. I agree that causing pain and suffering and ultimately killing farm animals for a hamburger is not worth it, "which is why" I'm vegan, though I'm not sure how long I would necessarily persist (in terms of years) if there were no meat substitutes around; if I couldn't make plant-based burgers I'd be very sad because it's one of my favorite foods (admittedly not before I went vegan, but after, but I enjoyed other meaty foods from time to time before that, hamburgers were okay too). The safest and easiest logical approach is simply to base the threshold on laws, that is also the general Libertarian principle, do whatever you want unless it's illegal, safe and easy approach to maximize LIBERTY, which regardless of others views is actually of significant moral importance, we all know what happens when freedoms dwindle, not only does humans suffer and die, but so does everyone and everything else, so it's all a balancing game between liberty, rights and traditions or order imo (too much liberty and rights and no traditions results in chaos and confusion, in the extreme no traditions could mean no shared language for example, or endless obscure dialects where nobody understands anyone else anymore). Everything we do have consequences to everyone else. I agree that farming animals for taste pleasure easily reaches the threshold of immorality or senselessness or irrationality, but it's important to recognize that literally everyone's thresholds are the same, and if we all try to MAXIMIZE MORALITY, we all end up literally "not living" (not sure if this word is an automatic youtube censorship word or not), because all living is to some degree at the expense of others. So you and I might agree with being vegan, but would you go ultravegan if that meant say Maximally avoiding the death of insects at the cost of all your freedoms to do most or all things that aren't strictly necessary for your survival (like grocery shopping or going to work, but no walks in parks, going to the gym, doing sports, hanging out with friends IRL, etc)? As a Liberal who cares so much about morality, why wouldn't you, do you only care about farm animals but not insects?
@@SourceChan Definition of “veganism” as:
"A philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude-as far as is possible and practicable-all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose; and by extension, promotes the development and use of animal-free alternatives for the benefit of humans, animals and the environment. In dietary terms it denotes the practice of dispensing with all products derived wholly or partly from animals."
Veganism is about not intentionally needlessly exploiting or being cruel to animals.
Unintentionally stepping on an ant is often part of life, and i dont think killing yourself to try to avoid as much harm as possible is the right thing to do.
I think pets should have as much freedom as possible as long as it doesnt put them or others in too much danger. I typically think cats should usually be able to free roam outside and come and go as they please. Ideally dogs would have a large area out in the country where they could come and go as they please without worry of being hit by a car. Confining pets for their own benifit, like u would for a baby, i dont think is immoral. If u let your baby crawl in a busy street and didnt care, u might be criminally charged for being irresponsible.
Liberty and rights matter. if people have liberty and rights, they can choose to or not to do traditional things as long as it doesn't violate others rights.
Basically dont intentionally needlessly use animal products, or products tested on animals, or sugar filtered thru bone char, or support zoos or needless horse back riding.
U can still go to the gym...
All animals have equal rights. I dont intentionally needlessly go out of my way to harm insects either such as going out to hunt them or kill them for pleasure to needlessly eat them or to kill them out in the wild just for fun. I care about insects like farm animals. I dont want people breeding insects to eat them either, or to feed to other animals they have bred into existence. I dont want them to keep insects needlessness confined either, such as to kidnap them from the wild to put on display in a jar for entertainment or decoration.
About 2/3rd in and this debate was actually touching. Despite the student's seemingly cold exterior, it seems like he actually has a heart. I like how he actually asked questions and let Ed explain his points from his pov.
Too much heart is bad. You become a vegan.
Are you joking? He has absolutely no heart at all. He said "Animals should not be given ANY moral consideration, any consideration we give them is "grace". They don't "deserve" anything." He has a highly oppressive and entirely self centered attitude. It's because of people like him who get into power that atrocities have happened throughout history.
@@jsparrowau You do realize that Hitler was vegan?
@@intermilan9731 Firstly, Hitler was not vegan, it's a myth. His favorite foods were caviar and trout - look it up. Secondly, let's say he was vegan, how would that prove anything at all? Jeffrey Dahmer and Ted Bundy were meat eaters, does that mean that all meat eaters are murderers?
Try to have some critical thinking skills before you write foolish comments.
@@intermilan9731 This is not true
'doesn't believe in morality'
'argues it's right/wrong to do things, based on what the laws permit'
I think this man walked away with a lot to think about, in a good way. Often times you will not get someone to admit to become vegan on the spot, in fact when someone does it's probably just to get out of the conversation. The way he was nodding all throughout Edds last argument tells me he really got some new information to process.
Nicely said. Great comment from someone that really understands empathy. You are putting yourself into the perspective of this student rather than just writing them off as so many have done in this discussion.
This is it. Conversations like this are all about planting the seed, and not at all about instantaneous conversion. It's not how people changing their minds works.
@@collectionofatoms1876 It should work like that but the ego gets in the way.
@@nvmffs Yes, for some people. But you don't know what happened after this video. 1 day after. 1 month after. Maybe he had time to sit with this information and it changed his opinion.
As much as I hated almost every word that came out of this guy’s mouth, I don’t think everything he said reflects his true core beliefs. It’s been documented how people start blathering when confronted with veganism. Educated people react the worst because they have a pretty high confidence on their cemented opinions and are less likely to simply concede during an argument.
100% agree. This guy is not the psychopath he makes himself out to be; he's just found a way to justify his actions that appear on the surface to be consistent.
@@parameshnat yeah, and he even budged ever so slightly. Most people have never thought it through (even if they think they have) because they've never been asked to. I wouldn't be shocked if we found out one day that he went veggie or vegan.
@@parker.100 - This, 100 percent.
I think you accidentally stumbled upon a half truth here with the wrong perspective. It's pretty clear that this person means what he says, he was consistent throughout and expressed a very clear and genuine sentiment of actually respecting not only Ed's conviction but his seemingly accurate understanding and expression of the moral problem they're both confronted with. It's just an ideological battle between the ideas or perspectives of whether it's fine or not to impose your moral beliefs on others. Libertarians don't think so, they're open to reason, but they don't care if you're the pope, if there's no mandate to respect your authority they won't respect your authority on anything other than its own merits. More liberal views are aligned with the idea that we HAVE to impose our morality on others, or else everyone's gonna turn into a raving psychopathic lunatic!!!! We have to like save the world at any cost!!! Both perspectives at the extreme pans out horribly, neither one is better than the other, it all depends on the individual you're talking to which, if you want to become like Ed, is something you'll have to work through instead of assuming that every person with a different perspective has some cognitive bias or deficiency, any overgeneralization like that is itself an indication of a cognitive bias or deficiency. There might be a correlation between education or intelligence and some level of intellectual arrogance, but assuming that every person who disagrees with you is suffering from this bias is an indication that you're suffering from a bias, and I assume that to be the case here since I see no indication that this man is arrogant unless you can point it out to me. He's reasonable stubborn, I don't know if you've noticed but so is Ed, it's hard to notice with the people you look up to, much easier to recognize in people you disagree with, isn't it? But both people expressed genuine interest and appreciation of the conversation and each other's perspectives, I'm sure Ed is longer in his journey than the Libertarian is and probably learned less from the conversation, the Libertarian is seemingly in college after all so there's probably an age difference there, but both people clearly enjoyed and appreciated the conversation even if there's some fundamental ideological differences.
@@SourceChan in what ways is Ed stubborn?
I loved how you pushed the debate to empathy. In the end (while all your arguments make sense) it’s a question of whether someone is willing to feel the pain animals go through or not. The question if someone dares to look. Everything else is just rationalizing yourself out of it, probably because you’re afraid.
Ed, I appreciate so much that you have these conversations. We cannot grow as a society without learning and respectfully challenging each other’s beliefs.
PS loved the book and happy I preordered it, worth the wait ❤️
Did this guy just low-key imply that tourists visiting the US are not protected under US law? For someone who keeps leaning on the law, he doesn't seem to understand how it works.
Oh god... the implications!
haha i was thinking the same thing... yeah humans have rights in america even if they aren't citizens. if tourists had no rights my summer job at ben and jerry's would have been waaaaaaay more fun.
Yay tourist nuggets, coming in the nearest supermarket
@@PrimalShutter omg noo 😂🤚🏼
They don't have all the rights citizens do, I believe that is the point he was making.
You were in good form there Ed, the guy was running around chasing his tail quite a few times haha. All being said though, what really saddens me (watching this video and many others) is how certain people will do everything they can to assert their position, and they, from the start, have absolutely no intention of listening to what's being said, or reconsidering their opinion. The vast majority of vegans today weren't born into veganism, in fact very few were, so at some point their worldview (as paying animal abusers) was challenged, and after pondering the new information that was given to them, they realised that what they had believed for (probably) most of their lives was wrong, and they changed.
I've just discovered your work. You are WONDERFUL. You do so much for this movement every day, and I am in awe of your commitment to respectful discussion without resorting to insults and shaming (which IMO is bad for the animals). Cue Montell Jordan lol
For a libertarian he’s very preoccupied with laws and systems!
It’s wild how these people argue when it’s obvious that they are wrong.
What about the freedom of animals?
most people could not give two shits since they see animals as mindless drones.
He doesn't give a shi- He just doesn't. You can't debate someone into a sense of empathy and he just doesn't have one.
@ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ٴ nah you don't need to believe animals are worth as much or more than people, just that the way they taste is not as valuable as their lives. I'd imagine you quite like cats, dogs, dolphins & turtles and you would prefer they would not be killed needlessly. You're already half way to being vegan lol.
As for the vitamins thing, that is not correct at all. There's a reason why you're told to eat your greens mate, and it's because they contain more vitamins and minerals than you can find in a chicken breast or sirloin steak.
@ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ٴ If you believe your taste is more important than an animal's life then you would be fine with eating dog or foie gras, do you consider those foods moral?
You're right that meat has more protein than plants but most meat eaters have TOO much protein. It's not recommended for the average man to eat more than around 0.8g protein per kg, I don't work in kg so for a 200lb man you'd want around 72g of protein, which is easy to hit on a plant based diet. I easily consume 100-120g of protein a day since I weight lift.
Dairy is in fact bad for bones, also consider that our ancient ancestors did not drink milk so it doesn't make sense for it to be a dietary staple. Milk is speculated to be a cause of Osteoporosis, you can look it up!
@ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ٴ You say "life of a human being", does veganism result in your death or does it result in you not using animal products? Are your taste buds more important than their lives?
It's interesting to see two people who seem equally certain of their world views have a discussion. It seems like Jed had put a lot of thought in his position. Maybe he will challenge his assumptions someday.
I loved your conversation with Jed!! I enjoyed hearing Jed's points and how you deconstructed them, Ed. Thank you for your amazing work💜💜
I’m going to say it: I really do feel extra disappointed when historically oppressed groups refuse to make the connection 🤷🏼♀️🤷🏼♀️🤷🏼♀️
To animals? Because that’s what non-Caucasians are to you, right? Animals?
@@theopportuneson699 go try to stir drama with someone else with that kind of disgusting assumptions because I won’t even tolerate it.
@@fabygoo Then don’t have racial prejudice lady.
@@theopportuneson699 LOL do you wanna type your original comment again so we can talk about your racial prejudice? Please.
@@fabygoo Clearly, I haven’t edited any of the above comments…
You should try and point out the circularity of his argument. He's essentially both arguing that we don't want to go around and kill each other because it's against our established laws, but also that we needed to create laws so that we don't go around killing each other. You have to ask why we wanted to create that law in the first place. If the only reason not to go around killing each other is that it's against the law, then there's actually no inherent reason to do anything about a society where people are going around killing each other and that's determined as acceptable.
facts!
Yeah loads of circular reasoning in general. His stance at the end is that veganism isn't morally obligatory, so there's no reason to push for vegan laws. But if laws are what make something moral, then there is no political project he can support justifiably, since any change of laws is de facto not the legal state of affairs. Any political project must come from a moral position, but he thinks morality isn't real and only current legality matters. I genuinely don't know how he could argue for a change in anything without contradicting that logic.
"He's essentially both arguing that we don't want to go around and kill each other because it's against our established laws, but also that we needed to create laws so that we don't go around killing each other. You have to ask why we wanted to create that law in the first place."
I don't think that's circular, that's surely how society began. If murder is legal, nobody's safe. By agreeing to a truce, we disincentivise bad actors by collectively punishing them, thus improving our own lives. He's saying we don't kill other humans because they could kill us, so it's in our own interest to outlaw that. Whereas there is no such social contract with other animals because allowing the killing of chickens for food doesn't reduce our own safety, in fact it provides us with pleasure.
I don't agree with him because I believe there is a moral obligation not to unnecessarily inflict pain on other sentient beings if it can be easily avoided.
The main problem with his argument is that in his ideal world there are no protections for any minority groups. If everything is legal unless outlawed by majority vote, there is no reason to give a fuck about anyone else's problems. Why should I protect animals when I like eating them? Why should I free black people when I like enslaving them?... There's no fairness, it just changes from 'might is right' to 'majority is right'. But to be fair, this is basically how society operates already, and it's hard to come up with another system which isn't flawed.
All of this intellectual discussion just to end at “I don’t want to” what a shame..
Props to Ed for trying his best, I couldn’t have done better myself! 🌿💗
That's all this is. Ed just wants to be vegan. He can't justify why it's acceptable to kill non-human animals in "extreme" situations. He just feels what he call "moral". Nothing was really that intellectual here though. There were a number of claims about morality and justification, but it was all just expression of subjective standards. Ed didn't provide an objective substantiation for his prescriptions.
@@cloudoftime He has before. I don't want to put words in his mouth, but roughly it went:
You do have a choice: you could just starve to death rather than kill and eat a non-human animal. And that would be the end, except the non-human animal would live a bit longer and whatever resources you would have gone on to consume would not be consumed. BUT, if you do kill and eat the non-human animal in a situation of extreme necessity, you could go on to convince others to avoid killing unnecessarily, making your survival a net decrease in overall suffering despite the suffering you caused in that moment.
One thing to keep in mind is that he doesn't necessarily believe it's a *good* argument, he just says things like, "an argument can be made." That's why a lot of vegans focus so intently on our current meat industry, which is overwhelmingly comprised of factory farms. That is much more difficult to defend, morally speaking.
@@lmelior This would be a subjective preference still. That isn't a substantiation for objective values.
That said, killing and suffering are distinct concepts. Reducing killing doesn't necessarily reduce suffering. And reducing suffering doesn't reduce death. And I see vegan activists talk all the time about how bad death is, but what is bad about death? What makes the death of a cow at 2 years worse than the death of a cow at 20 years? And that's not even making the distinction between _how_ the death happens. Slow, suffering natural death or much quicker man-made death?
Also, it's not just about killing and eating non-human animals. Vegans cause the death and suffering of countless beings just by continuing to exist. From pesticides, to vehicle travel and transportation, vegans are responsible for so much death and suffering just by choosing to continue existing as a vegan.
But there is also an assumption being made that the number of total beings suffering or dying is important. Vegan activists often appeal to the numbers of animals in the food industry, as though these numbers have more significance because of how high they are. Every being has their own experience. A cow in a factory farm can't experience the suffering of the cow in the next factory farm. It also can't experience that other cow's death. Adding suffering together is just a flawed calculation, and a misrepresentation of how subjective experience works. 1,000,000,000,000,000 deaths of non-human animals is no worse than the death of 1.
Very much had the feeling the guy was already thinking of his next talking point while Ed was still responding to his previous one.
I love the way that Ed tries his damn-est to NOT look inpatient with his guests
It’s funny how people say stupid things and then Ed makes them realize how stupid their arguments are and yet they still double down on their own stupidity to try and justify themselves. “iS It LeGal?🥴” 🤦🏽♂️
This guy was highly intelligent yet stupid at the same time!! My God his arguments got absolutely obliterated, yet he still stubbornly clung to them probably because of his Stamford pride
Sadly doubling down is a common response to be confronted with information that goes against your own beliefs.
Genuinely cannot believe that this dude basically thinks that people have a right to stomp a dog to death...or intentionally harm any animal for that matter.
You think it right to stomp a cow.
I feel smarter every time I watch one of Ed’s videos!
This guy is so used to winning debates. I bet he’s going to replay this conversation in his head endlessly to understand how he was schooled by Ed.
I think this is the most forceful I've seen Ed. I like it. I think that's the only way to respond to an argument that essentially boils down to 'I can, so I will'. I don't think people realize when they say things like 'I don't believe in an intrinsic morality' that they're essentially telling us: I do whatever makes me feel good, as long as my society let's me get away with.
@@dBakaj You have to be forceful when someone is using logical fallacies to arbitrarily justify hurting others for pleasure. This isn't some ordinary argument about a complex issue where both sides have positives and negatives. In this scenario, Ed is arguing that animals deserve SOME moral consideration. This is undoubtedly true and their are no negatives to giving animals this moral consideration except for slightly disappointed taste buds. There is no argument here.
@@dBakaj correct, so why choose to be cruel?
@@jibjubby it isn’t cruel
@@alipetuniashow What would you call it?
ua-cam.com/video/uJXSYMhtwvU/v-deo.html
@@alipetuniashow Killing isn't cruel?
It's pretty easy to see the practices that occur in slaughter houses are cruel if you just consider putting your pet cat or dog in the same place as the chicken you buy off the shelf
LOVED IT! that was the best debate I heard so far