One of the reasons why One Piece side characters felt so alive and relevant even if they didn't show up a lot was because they were always doing something else progressing their own stories/adventures even if they're not in the spotlight. Characters like Ace/Koby/Buggy sometimes got a tiny bite-szied stories at the title page, but when they do come back and they become impactful because they didn't do nothing at the background or just changed new clothes. They are living alongside the straw hats in the same universe
Even if One Piece suffers from some issues. I'll give it credit over a couple of animes on the fact that it certainly feels like the world is in motion even if we don't see all of it.
Yea the cover stories and the world view breaks make the world feel more alive. Even in the current arc without spoiling we've been 1 month away from the straw hats just to focus on side characters. Oda really treats his world and characters with respects as if they are MCs.
I was an unironic tenten fan watching naruto growing up. She stood out to me as the only one of the four genin girls whose primary motivation was getting stronger for Herself and not for the recognition of the guy they crushed on. Then she was a nothing.
@@TyandOnGoing Tsunade is garbage. Except her most of the female characters were awesome since they shouldn't get any screen time, character development and should only be used as a love interest because Shounen is for boys, except some garbage characters like Ten Ten most female characters in that show is how they should be written in Shounen
I love how side characters and team work matters in black clover. So even weaker characters skills play a huge major role in fights even if they’re abilities aren’t offensive
i thought the black bulls would be a pretty mid cast of side characters beside a few at the start of the story, but now I love them all so much they really feel like a family. Tabata did a good job
One example of a Shonen that really does its side characters justice is Hunter x Hunter. Granted it isn't really a classic shonen anime, but almost every single character feels like a real person existing separately from the main characters. Even the main characters are separate from the other main characters. It's an absolute masterpiece in my opinion, mostly because of the characters. By far my favorite anime.
@@Jinfwjump I think by HxH not being classic he means HxH is not as popular as other mainstream action shonen anime's such as Naruto , Demon Slayer , Dragon Ball Z , Bleach, My Hero Academia, Black Clover, Jujutsu Kaisen , Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood , Fairy Tail
tabata really did a great job mixing up his main plot + his side characters + mc ... village arc - magna . dungeon arc - luck . cave arc - gauche . under water temple - all the black bulls and their team work . witches forest - vanessa . royal knights - finral ,zora elf - henry ... heart - grey .. all of them had their individual arcs that tabata gave and kept his main plot moving along side them ... as the story goes asta yuno noelle all get their moments developments etc ... characters like yami , william , nozel ,fuego ,mereo even WK julius all had their moments stories .... tabata managed all their stories and his plot made a single story
I think One Piece is the only show I watched where they dedicate an entire long ass arc to flesh out a side character, with said arc becoming one of the best in the series.
I really appreciate that you show Haikyuu as a successful attempt at balancing a larger supporting cast. The show manages to not only balance the main team, but also give us at least 1-2 players from many of the rival teams to both root against and later root for.
I have to admit that near the end of the series it got a bit exhausting for me, and felt like the emphasis on the opponent was killing the momentum during the game, when reading in a weekly publication format. Introducing all those 2-3 flashbacks in 1 set out of two or three during the match made it hard to remember the highlights of the game imo.
I think Magna from Black Clover is the big standout when it comes to successfully giving side characters stuff to do, at least to me. Tabata has gotten better overtime at scaling an arc's batch of villains close to each other so his ensemble can feel more capable and awesome. I also think "raid boss" style villains like Madara and Kaido (though a weakened "raid boss" typically finishes in a 1v1 against the MC) are great ways for a shonen mangaka to keep the teamwork fresh and creative.
It has some good side chatacter development like Bachira, Barou and Reo, but the others like Chigiri, Nagi and Kunigamis I feel they just have a small moment and then cool moments but they don’t get that much development, it’s mainly Isagi
It’s also ironic that Blue lock side characters have some development while they shouldn’t. Blue Lock isn’t supposed to let everyone advance it’s supposed to show how difficult the sport is by not letting everyone pass. But [spoiler] now you can see all players still be here playing defense or even goal while they have been only taught to be strikers. This make absolutely no sense
I think a lot of Mangaka underestimate the power of offscreen developments. One of the thing that I find really consistent with One Piece that made it stood out was the offscreen developments. Offscreen developments allows the side characters to have the illusion of actually growing and in effect the whole world feels larger than life or just simply felt like it's moving outside the main characters. And the best part is that through that, the side characters can easily have one or two highlight moments that can easily satisfy most fans. I don't think I need that much screen time from Rock Lee or Kiba, but at least give me one scene where I can clearly see some growth in their characters rather than making them feel stagnant and just background characters. Going back to One Piece, I think it's no exaggeration to say that one of the best part about the manga is the SBS and Cover stories. How we see the world is moving outside the main characters' perspectives. Thanks to this offscreen methods, even the most obscure side characters can feel important to the world and story. Some great example of this are Helmeppo and Bellamy. Both went from a 1 dimensional douchebag to actually redeemable and in Bellamy's case tragic character arc. And most of the heavy lifting came from their offscreen developments. The next time we met Helmeppo, he's a lot stronger and is very loyal to his friend. Meanwhile, the next time we met Bellamy, he's a lot more humble and kind towards other. And the conclusion of Bellamy's character was literally done on a cover story with him being a designer. If Naruto had just one scene where Rock Lee get to outperform Gaara like how Might Guy does with Kakakshi in his Madara's fight, I would've been happy. I don't need to see Rock Lee's training arc, all I want is something that can show off his growth.
yeah but oda gets to do that because of his expansive and well build world other shonen either their world isnt that well build (ex:fary tail,naruto) or their world is too small to alow such things(ex:chainsaw man)
I'd even say BC treats the side characters so well it gets confusing in story. Like how is damn near EVERY Black Bull member an arcane level mage?? I get that Yami went out his way to recruit weirdos and outcasts, some of which are royals but they just get randomly busted abilities at a certain point in the story I'm like aight man. I know it's to have them be relevant in fights later in the series but watching NINE side characters get a hax ability in one year after being third rate mages their whole lives breaks my immersion just a little bit
@buddbrown6858 yami knew they were powerful and saw potential, that's why he recruited them, if you think about it the Black bulls never even got much missions until Asta and Noelle came, so they didn't really have a chance to go all out, like yami for example
I really do love One Piece soo much. Oda writes in such a good way where every arc , each character has some really insightful dialouge or moment and when paired with their character overall gives them such a great developed feel. Even after a characters major development is finished , we still see them being focused on in such small and subtle ways that makes One Piece a treat to re-read in bulk. Its especially apparent when hyper-focusing on a single characters development while re-reading. Recently , I re-read some really key arcs with Nami and my love for that character sky rocketed all over again. This usually happens in Post-timeskip where Oda doesn't have time to give each character dedicated focus , so he gives them crumbs littered throughout the story and when the reader experiences this , its amazing.
An actually smart video that explains why side characters get left behind, instead of just whining about it. To bring up the point that it is actually a conundrum and extremely hard to keep all of them relevant. Keep up more smart and nuanced videos like this, but also lower your background music. Your voice gets a bit lost sometimes
Hey glad you enjoyed the video! Yeah it's not easy to keep or make all these characters relevant. And I'm sure it's tough on the writers Also I'll try to balance the music better next time👍
i think most of the problems stem from the fact, that these shows are entirely built around a single powersystem, only characters that excel at that one particular skill set can be relevant. dragon ball and naruto are about fighting, food wars is about cooking, ace attorney is about crime solving etc, what if there was one anime that was about everything? (just not at the same time) shows like adventure time and mlp have several power systems, yet weak characters can still play important roles, as not every problem is solved by fighting alone. the closest anime i can think of, is one piece, its mostly about fighting, but sometimes sanji enters a cooking competition, some of which are more epic than the actual fights.
I personally believe that anko is the most underutilized female character in naruto, (maybe second to sakura) but her potential was crazy, her story of being orochimaru’s daughter would’ve been really cool to explore further. I think she should’ve been Sasuke’s teacher in the chunin exam instead of kakashi, that way the connection between orochimaru would’ve been even more present. I also think it would’ve been really cool if she could’ve been the sakura to Kakashi and guy’s, naruto and sasuke. just food for thought
I think black clover does a great job at building up side characters, like the black bulls felt generic at the start but slowly you get to see the deeper layers in each member and new members through every arc. It isnt just the black bulls either, captains like Nozel, Charlotte, Mereoleona and other characters get well built too. Its amazing to see everyone progress and develop as the story goes on. Also shoutout to my goat Magna beating one of the strongest villains as a side characters in a non bs way. Its my favorite fight in the series for sure
My main issue with this many characters is that you can always have them and they can be this super cool characters that only get to shine one time but it's the author's responsibility whenever they plant a seed in the story, they actually need to let it grow. A lot of author's tend to hype or set up a certain character only to drop the ball with them. They always bite more than they can chew. Tbh, I don't really have an issue with Kiba myself cause there's nothing to expect from him in terms of growth. Kishimoto made clearly set him up to be just a fodder characters to just add an element of quirkiness to the world. Despite being my fav side characters at least early on in the story, purely out of his cool design and power, since it was clear he's not important and wasn't tease to have his own personal character arc, I wasn't really disappointed with his character. Like you said, it all depends on the intention of the managaka. And I think that argument can apply on each individual characters in a series. But then comes Rock Lee who was teased to have major arc revolving him. He literally had a backstory fleshed out and has a whole fight where there's a lot of drama and tension to it. We were made clear of his goals and insecurities of being chakraless. But then Kishimoto done nothing to properly conclude his arc. Comparing him to Kiba who had mainly had gag fight with Naruto, Rock Lee were actually presented as someone that can potentially be important. Or at least were given a reason for fans to get invested in, only for Kishimoto just made him into a background character. Another example is Momo, who also were set up to be someone special and important given the fact that she was set up as a recommended student and has shown to have massive insecurities for unable to keep up with the weight of expectations of being said recommended student, only for it to amount to nothing. I don't mind Koji, cause at least, throughout the story he was never being set up to have any relevancy to the main plot or to have any personal arc. I think he served his role just fine even if he's nothing more than a background character cause that's how Horikoshi set him up. Point being, you are allowed to have an expansive and diverse cast of side characters and not expand upon them, but it if you decided to expand on them, don't half assed it and actually give them a closure.
kishimoto really hyped rock lee up to the same level as gaara and sasuke and even naruto…and then other than in the kazekage arc bro doesn’t even exist to the story
Yeah, part of issue isn’t even them being or not being in the story If the story can’t support them anymore, it’d be nice to just see them retire or simply shuffle out gracefully for the new cast like db did with Bulma and Roshi or what HxH and jojo does with almost all they’re characters. If anything, the fact that they’re time onscreen was established to be short and often with an ending just ends with them leaving a stronger impression in our mind due to how fleeting they were and able to go out on top. Their impact has value because they’re story HAS an ending, which infinitely better than constantly bringing back and benching a character over and over again. Like??? I don’t think Gohan fans actually care about him being a fighter as much as they say. Really they just want closure for the poor guy, rather than having to learn the same things over and over again and watch the story bring him back just to bench him because they have 0 ideas for what they want him to do. I mean??? It’s part of why fans are in less of a hurry to bring back characters like Bulma, Krillin or Roshi.
as someone who is making a very character centric manga with the intention of creating an ensemble roster, this video has given me confidence that I'm on the right track
I found the topic of Giorno in Golden Wind to be interesting, because I personally felt like he was a much more well developed version of what they tried to do with Jotaro in part 3. Yes, he's in the background until he needs to act, but he does so with purpose. He states from the start that he aims to be the boss, and shows traits that better fit a leader than a shounen protagonist. Namely, he's able to trust his team and delegate tasks, as well as encourage their growth as individuals. He's often seen in the middling episodes offering small bits of help, but never just solving the problem like Jotaro did. I actually liked that a lot about him, despite most people I hear from just finding him boring or lacking. It's like... cool to see (or not see) this more introverted protag act in a way that doesn't break his nature, but still gets things done.
Problem with side characters is that they do a lot of "Goes nowhere does nothing" after being introduced or being reintroduced i.e. former villain becomes ally trope. A lot of this has to do with Editor manipulation of what makes your manga the most popular so new characters have to be constantly introduced to rise the stakes or keep readers interested. It's not like making a story on your own in a vacuum. It's one of the reasons why American attempts at a anime like style like Avatar for example seem to have a more meaty story because we realize that it's important to focus on a strong central cast of characters rather than dumping a bunch of characters with weird quirks like saying "ka" at the end of your sentences. You know what I mean, ka?
Fantastic video. I never thought about it before about authors not wanting to take attention away from the main character before. I also really like smaller main casts. Your example of Yu Yu Hakusho shows how everyone in that smaller cast can be well developed.
Dragonball should have been on that thumbnail over one piece. One piece has arguably the best side characters in all of shonen. Meanwhile Dragonball is the Goku and Vegeta show when Goku isn’t stealing Vegeta’s spotlight to make it the Goku show cough Moro arc cough resurrection F cough
I think the issue with a lot of shonen is each one seems to be trying be the next Dragonball or One Piece where they endure for decades and continuously get more content. And this problem extends to more than just the the creators, but the editors and people in power who want another long running series. So if a series was meant to last like 100 chapters, its extended, and what was meant to be the right amount of moments for a supporting character to get their time to shine is now insufficient because the increased length.
It's absolutely understandable that developing side characters in shoenen isn't always possible due to time constraints, but I'll never forgive Naruto for doing Rock Lee dirty as they did
@@turkeysgotmorecloutthanyou your talking about the village hidden in the show time every village besides konoha has basically zero background besides the kage which makes it irrelevant
@@Gpoeit village hidden in the sand is the first village that we are actively told about. They play a big roll in their introduction arc and we learn about the characters in the village and the politics that led to them doing what they did. What more do you want??? Unless you want a one piece style arc where the most boring characters imaginable take up lots of space, it’s a lot better this way. We learn enough about the village, we don’t need long segments of time devoted to it. Gaara has amazing development
@@turkeysgotmorecloutthanyou actually that's exactly what I want fun characters from other villages that actually mean something. maybe if kisihmoto fleshed out other villages and made them stronger Boruto could have avoided many of the problems it faces now
I saw that Shinso from MHA when you said “character that fades into irrelevancy” and I FELT THAT SO HARD. It was by far my favorite from the first season…..then NOTHING.
I mean as you stated, many side casts were never meant to be anything more than measuring sticks for the main character to show where they were and how far they've come. I used to understand why people felt such annoyance over how Kishimoto did his side cast until I realized that as you said he introduced these characters and fleshed them out somewhat to not be nondescript background characters but they were never meant to be as important as people would like to believe. As soon as the Akatsuki was introduced and Sasuke left the village, it was VERY clear that the story was shifting to not only focus on Naruto at that point, but Sasuke. They were always going to have the most importance and they were always highlighted as the two "special" characters in the series so of course everyone else would fade into obscurity. They were only really needed in the chunin exam and in the Sasuke retrival arc. I would say that the only side characters who were really necessary and given enough screen time to show this were Shikamaru and Hinata. Fairy Tail had its main cast, but weirdly enough I never felt that Mashima did a complete disservice to his sidecast. I definitely think there were moments where the side characters got to shine and have their own importance. But I definitely think Haikyuu perfectly did their side cast justice, same with Blue Lock. There is no character in Blue Lock that the author acts like is expendable unless he very CLEARLY indicates their story is over. You also made an excellent point about how fleshing out side characters has to fall within the plot of the show. One piece, its expected. With sports anime, its also expected. With Fairy Tail, its expected. I would also say its expected with Bleach simply because the story starts off with Ichigo being ingratiated into a different society than his and through that more races were discovered so expanding on that made sense and I also think Bleach did as well as they could with their side cast. With MHA, I'll give Hirokoshi some slack, because the story is supposed to be Izuku recounting his journey so obviously more focus would be on the characters he was in closer proximity to when it come to his journey, also he does try to keep the other classmates relevant. The vigilante arc definitely showed that and this final arc is showing that as well. To wrap up my thoughts, I just feel like fans would enjoy series more if they realized what it is for some characters. You can love a side character but you can't really be so mad over them not playing a larger role when it was very clear they were being used as a device to develop the MC and move the plot along. It happens all the time in different forms of literature. It is what it is.
well said. I think Naruto is a pretty flagrant example of not giving side characters anything to do (great series but deserves every mention it gets here), it's definitely important for readers to realize a lot of these characters were never intended to be important. You liking them more than the protagonist doesn't mean the author should stop the story they want to tell to shoehorn it in
Glad you talked about this issue, as I think about it a lot. I think generally the biggest problem is strength, since a lot of shonen are battle-ridden. As such, when a character is much weaker than the main MC, they are just limited in what they can do in the story and battles when the author doesn't want them to become stronger.
One of the reasons I love black clover is that it doesn't have this problem that is arguably common in battle shonens. The main cast aside from mc get their own screen time and moments, and even outside of that main cast there are plenty of characters that aren't forgotten. Also although the power system is kinda cliche (magic), tabata wrote it in a very creative and good way that makes most of the side characters not be left behind and have their chances to shine (if you read the manga, you already know magna vs....🌚) Great video btw ^^
I never read the manga unfortunately but Black clover succeeds with it's side characters with the way it handles their arcs. They'll explore a side character or 2 for an arc, but actually give a conclusion to their specific arc before sidelining them for awhile. And if they don't fully conclude the arc the mangaka teased early on in the arc, theyll pick it up in the future. So far I haven't seen too many times where tabata teases a character moment or arc and then drops it. There's tons of side characters but they are either obviously side characters or he delivers what he promises.
@@plaecholder I couldn't agree more, if you're not caught up with the manga you should read it, you definitely won't be disappointed, The spade kingdom raid is some of the most shonen battle shit I've ever read, and a lot of side characters had their goated moments . And if you dont have anything spoiled, the reading will be even better. The manga is not hard/heavy to read at all and tabata's art is great. Current arc is also going crazy. The anime ended in chapter 270 btw.
This is one of the reasons I hate Black Clover, it has this problem that most Shounen doesn't have, which is giving characters screen time. Side characters shouldn't have any development, personality, and should stay in the side because the story isn't about them, it's about the MC, and side characters should be thrown away as soon as their isn't any reason for them in the story, which is why Black Clover is complete Garbage and Naruto did it right by focusing on characters who the story is actually about
I think the best large ensemble anime’s are the ones where a group of characters are the main protagonist, with 1-2 taking center stage (Soul Eater w/Maka&Soul, or Gundam IBO w/Orga&Mikazuki). Those main protagonists’ character arcs may get the most focus, but they aren’t inherently linked to plot progression. This opens up other characters to do plot relevant stuff and allows the cool moments to be shared with the group.
I think a problem Shonen has is authors tend to want to have an interesting and cool looking cast of character but don't want to put in the surrounding support you need for such a thing. Allowing off screen growth that keeps up a bit with the main cast, keeping them tied to the plot in some way, making the main cast and supporting cast have strong meaningful bonds and moments, etc. And the power scaling they end up using just becomes unsustainable. Like in Dragon Ball in which characters like Dyspo which spec in one thing (ie. speed) feel out of place when Goku and Vegeta and other characters are jack of all trades and still whoop his butt. When "The Fastest in the Universe" is a laughable title cuz Frieza literally exists. To be fair, Dragon Ball isn't supposed to be taken seriously since the author loves his gags but you get what I mean. Rock Lee may be training to be the strongest taijutsu specialist but since he isn't written to be part of the plot and is just relegated to set dressing Naruto and Sasuke get power boosts that invalidate the techniques and styles of whole bloodlines and moves the series further away from what made the early ninja fights nice imo. To the point where even right now in Boruto with Rock Lee probably being in his prime he'd still lose to One Eyed Sasuke and Sage Hokage Naruto without using the Eight Gate and literally dying. Because Naruto and Sasuke are supposed to be the strongest until Boruto, Kawaki and Sarada grow up. Actually also that just reminded me. Why hasn't Rock Lee and any of the others done anything in Boruto? Wasn't the whole point of a lot of the fights that the bad guys are forcing the good guys to use taijutsu more so why not whip out 7th Gate Adult Rock Lee which is probably stronger than Might Guy ever was 💀
What makes boruto even worse is that it's monthly manga and nothing happened it's monthly while Naruto was weekly it makes some mistake but we can excuse since how hard it was to work and you can't to focuses on everything
If mha followed black clovers approach to side characters it would be so much better in that department. Make 1a smaller and link every character there to the idea of this broken hero society similar to how every black bull member is linked to the broken class society. Have arcs focused on a particular character and them dealing with their struggles in contrast to the villain of that arc who also suffers from hero society.
Yeah mha has alot of characters that unfortunately just don't have much of a connection to the main plot, and honestly, they aren't really strong enough to participate very often. There's alot to work with with but it's not easy to get it all to work.
Yeh i dunno about that one, like yeh my hero has cool characters but not everyone needs to be relevant imo, it would one drag out the story way longer than needed especially when the characters themselves are pretty straight forward " they just would want to heros. Except for a few of them they did go over some characters back stories and the discrimination they faced and how their actions counterpart the villains ( wont spoil because i dont know you and will respect anyone potentially reading this comment). I just feel it makes it feel more real because not everyone is important tbh... EXCEPT for one piece, its side characters are so good oda is a god and he wrote sanji perfectly.
@@black_deus @Blâck Deüs I do read the manga🙂. Also keep in mind that this video was made almost a year ago before alot of the suffering happening now had happened. But also the stuff for example with Koda and shoji took basicly until the end of the series to happen, and it would be nice to get a little bit more of that throughout the whole series. I'm definitely not saying Koda needs to be bakugo levels of important lol, but it would be nice to get a bit more from them throughout the series
@@krow14 I get where you're coming from. I don't think everyone can or should todoroki or bakugo levels of important, its just disappointing to see a character who seems cool not really get a chance to do anything or make them tick. And because they aren't really relevant there really isn't a reason to. It can just feel disappointing some time. Also it is nice to see characters like Koda getting a bit more stuff going on now.
Currently, I've been rewatching Naruto, after 15 long years.... I was so sure that Lee would have a mention here xD I wholeheartedly agree with everything you said!
W video and soundtrack all around good job, me personally I disagree on the black clover point b/c I think it still falls into that same trap of having too many characters falling into obscurity.
Great video! I haven’t really seen many people discussing this topic. Your script writing and and editing is on point, you really captured my attention. I see the music has already been addressed so other than that, loved what you had to say. Keep it up
Mercy For side characters like Akaginu too from Hell's Paradise Edit:That Hottie literally just died in 3rd episode other good side characters also got killed :(
A show where the same truck driver has accidentally killed multiple teens who became Isekai protagonists in different worlds. Each time the driver is not in trouble because it can clearly be proven its not his fault (dashcam footage). A detective suspects foul play and infiltrates this truck drivers group therapy session circle. Realises the driver is innocent, then gets run over by the driver. Driver now has PTSD for accidentally killing not just another person, but a close friend. In his final moments, all the victims he killed appear before him and tell him its not his fault. They talk about the lives they lived in other world, and that was only possible because of the driver. The driver smiles, and passes away. [End of 6 episode mini series]
Thats what i love about fairy tail and one piece the characters we love from the begining can still be usefull and meaningfull at the end, that its not only the natsu and luffy show 😊
Scrolling through the comment section and I don't think has mentioned about Katekyo Hitman Reborn!'s cast! I would love someone to analyze that series!
The shonen with the best side cast I've watched is black clover by far, the way every one of the black bulls is fleshed out and explored is just incredible.
When it comes to large casts in shows I think the best examples are star trek TNG and DS9. They pulled it off by not just having their characters get more development as the show runs, but also have those characters represent different ideologies and have different motives that bounce of each other, thus creating a unique dynamic for the whole show
Dude I love the fact that you reference Picolo because Picolo is literally one of my favourite DBZ characters after Gohan and Cell ...The best Picolo moment is him vs 17..I get goosebumps watching their fight👍🔥💯🔥😁👍
I think this is probably a problem that shonen has more than a lot of other types of writing because of the way it's usually structured. like in the Dragon Ball Z power scaling example... if the only type of problem that the series presents to the characters is the type that can be solved with increasingly escalating powers, then yeah... you're gonna have a lot of characters fall off when they can't keep up. but there are other types of problems and solutions that can exist in a narrative. I just think shonen tends to under utilize them, proportionally speaking. for example... Golden Kamuy is one of my favorite series, and it's a seinen historical fiction, so magic powers don't even exist in this narrative. that means that the plot has to rely on literally anything else when it comes to conflict, and solutions. and that makes it more compelling... literally the plot can become more tense when the characters are disempowered by the circumstances they find themselves in. and very niche problems may require very niche solutions, which is where the supporting cast can actually get dragged back _into_ relevancy, over and over again. anyway, my example is this: in Golden Kamuy, there is a character introduced named Shiraishi Yoshitake. and he's an idiot. primarily, he's used as a comic relief character, but there are two things about him that are really important. one is that, as part of the main plot of the story, the protagonists are going around looking for escaped prisoners with tattoos on their skins that, when pieced together, form a map of encoded instructions that leads to a huge cache of stolen ainu gold. Shiraishi is one of those prisoners, so they need him. on top of that, Shiraishi's one special skill is that he's the escape king. he can break out of damn near anywhere, and was actually in prison for so long in the first place, because after his initial crime, he kept breaking out and getting caught again. he's broken out of almost every prison in the region, and they literally cannot figure out how to stop him from doing this. so, when the main crew REALLY needs to talk to someone important to the plot, who is being held in a maximum security prison that they can't just waltz on into... they need Shiraishi's help, to break _in._ the best part is that Shiraishi is a dumbass. they buy a bunch of grenades to use when they get to the prison, as part of their plan, but then while they're at a hotel along the way, there's a fire and Shiraishi accidentally drops the bag of grenades into the burning basement, so they lose them all, and also blow up the hotel. then Shiraishi loses almost all of the rest of their money betting on horse races, because he's trying to win and pay them back for the materials he lost. they only _actually_ make their money back because one of their traveling companions replaces a jockey in the race, and wins when he was supposed to throw the race on purpose. this runs their group afoul of a yakuza leader, who was the one trying to rig the race, and ended up losing a bunch of money instead... and there's a whole side bit where that guy tries to murder them. and on top of that, Shiraishi randomly gets detained again because he's recognized by the military as a prison escapee, and he keeps evading their attempts to rescue him, because for a moment there he's convinced that the protagonist has figured out that, all throughout their journey so far, Shiraishi has been threatened into passing information to a rival faction that is also pursuing the gold. so Shiraishi thinks the protagonist is gonna kill him, even though that's not actually the case, and they can't clear up the misunderstanding until they get Shiraishi back from the military, in spite of Shiraishi's own attempts to foil their efforts, because he's a dumbass. the result is that Shiraishi is one of my favorite characters in the entire damn series. he's endlessly entertaining, he's like a friggin loony toon, and you can't power scale him out of relevancy because wtf would that even _mean_ in this context?? and also, by the time they actually use his niche skill for the niche purpose that it was good for... Shiraishi and the rest of the crew have grown close enough that he _decides_ to keep traveling with them, because these people are _important_ to each other... and they don't _need_ another reason! and his niche skill can still come in handy whenever it happens to fit the bill, it's great, and he also never stops being funny, which is also great, and it really is just that easy. and Shiraishi is just a minor example... a _lot_ of characters in this story become and remain interesting because of the complex interplay of their motives and utility to one another in this way. that guy who took the role of the jockey? he's got so much going on under the surface, that he upends literally everything they think they know about what they're doing, on several occasions. it's just really solid writing! like, ask yourself why you stay friends with any of your actual IRL people that you hang out with. none of you are magic, and there's no threat against the fate of the world for you to deal with... the truth is, people can be engaging by their own merit, just because they're entertaining to listen to, or fun to be around. charisma goes a long way, and when a character has it, it's valid to just let them exist, and be that. and to that end... I think it can also pay off, in a big way, to curb some of the shonen formula's basic excesses. don't overload the cast with too many characters. use what you've got first, then see if there's room for anyone else. if you keep introducing people who would be satisfying to get to know, and then dropping them as soon as you design another guy who looks cool, you're just gonna frustrate the audience, and then none of it will matter. if even the author isn't willing to dedicate themselves to the characters, what reason does the audience have to do the same?
Which is why shows with tight knit, colorful casts that has great banter with each other are my favorite. CSM Part1, Konosuba and Kaguya-sama are the most prominent example
i feel like there's too much focus on the main character when there not complex enough to carry all that time add the Main character wants to be strongest X and it just becomes too boring watching him single handily carry the whole thing for god knows how long . like go over all these shounen shows did the mc really need all this fights did we really need to see him say he wont give up for 100th time lets go one step further does the MC really need to take out every big bad of an arc ? One punch man is a good example we all know what Sitama deal is we all know no one can or will keep up with him but the Author use that and keeps him on the side until hes truly needed and gives time for the more complex and less op characters a chance to show off and also let the moments when MC step up actually stand out instead of being a weekly routine .
Thank you for giving me some insight on what's been going on here. The idea is to sew your cast more integrally with the narrative, but how could the Black Bulls improve this aspect because it doesn't feel fully realized. (I'm looking at Charmy and the painting captain) Personally I think a lot of these problems can be solved by having a revolving door of characters where we can see offscreen developments. This makes the characters feel fleshed out more and helps with the worldbuilding. It could even have an unforeseen effect on the core characters, like take Tien becoming a Dojo Master in Super. This could've inspired Goku or at least plant the seed that other strong fighters won't get stronger without help. He needs to pay forward what's been sewn into him, eventually this leads to Pan and Uub. To hammer this idea home for the audience, we could see Tien's years of offscreen training payoff with some highlight moments that can give more important characters a run for their money, but him finding satisfaction in his continuous effort despite having new priorities.
If you've caught up with the Black Clover manga (I don't want to spoil you), you'll understand that Charmy will likely be an impostant character in the final arc that's unfolding. And we'll probably get her backstory too, so it's just a matter of time.
No one does justice to its side characters as well as One Piece. It is unrivaled in this department. Moving the ongoing worldwide developments without even showing a single Strawhat is something while giving focus about what a side character is currently doing is another. But the most mind-boggling about how Oda writes his side characters is that he writes them with as much thought and care as he does writing a Strawhat crew member. Think about Bon Clay back in Alabasta. Oda didnt just write a gag character in the LGBTQ spectrum there, he wrote a moving and talking theme. As all throughout the Alabasta Arc, it was telling Vivi's development as she deepens her relationship with the Strawhats. How she found precious friends that will not abandon her fight. It was on that arc where the iconic Luffy punching a woman because she was willing to sacrifice herself for her people and Luffy made her realize that the Strawhat crew is her friends now and that she needs to depend on them from there on forward. And then there's this character Bon Clay who got lost and found in the Going Merry. He suddenly made friends with the Strawhats and they immediately bonded and laughing with each other. He also showed his powers wherein he could copy their faces. Then later on he was picked up by his crew and was saddened by the fact that he will now be leaving Luffy and co. But before he left, he quoted that "Friendship doesn't depend on the length of time spent together." Now this quote rings so true for both the Strawhats + Vivi and the Baroque Works. While the Strawhats and Vivi just met days ago inside Laboon, they immediately forged this precious connection and became loyal friends with each other while on the other hand, Baroque Works who've been working together for God knows how many years now still hates each other and even stab each other's backs. Even Crocodile and Miss All Sunday who've been there the longest doesnt hold a single shred of trust with each other and Crocodile even tried to kill her. So, yes. Oda was indeed consistent here with what he wrote about "Friendship doesnt depend of the length of time spent together" and he did this through Bon Clay. But Oda the madlad didnt even stop here. Remember Bon Clay's copy fruit that he revealed to the Strawhats? Vivi eventually recognized it and is now panicking how they'll be sure that Bon Clay wont portray as one of the Strawhats and sabotage all their hardwork to save Alabasta. In order to counter Bon Clay's powers, they marked their arms with the "X" signifying their friendship. And this really indeed help them recognize the real from the fake. Now fast forward, Crocodile is now defeated, people now realize how Crocodile was the mastermind that caused the Civil War, the Strawhats now were able to feast on their hard earned palace food, and now they're bound to leave Alabasta. Vivi, who now really has deep connection with the Strawhats, is now put on a dilemma whether to join the Strawhats and leave or stay for her country. She ultimately decides the latter. She loves her people so much that she is now ready to say goodbye to her precious friends. But how could she when the Marines are around. They'll suspect her if she will outright say that they are friends and tag her as a pirate. What does the Strawhats do? They just remained quite and did the iconic gesture. All of their hands raised showing the "X" that proves that they are friends and Vivi immediately gets it and cries in relief and happiness. And we wouldnt have gotten this scene if it wasnt for Mr. 2 Bon Clay and his powers. Oda made Bon Clay the representation of the theme of friendship all throughout this arc. The one who exclaimed "Friendship doesnt depend on the length of time spent together" during the beginning of the arc was the same guy used by Oda as the closing scene of the arc as well as he was the only reason why the Strawhat had the X = Friendship mark on each of their arms. That scene was what made Vivi an honorary Strawhat member. And you think Oda ended Bon Clay's role here? ABSOLUTELY NO. After getting blasted off to Amazon Lily, Luffy, all by himself, eventually knew that Ace is gonna get executed. Of course he wouldnt let that happen so he goes to Impel Down all by himself. And just when we thought Luffy is just gonna accomplish this incredible feat all by himself, we were shown that Bon Clay was there. And it perfectly made sense since Baroque Works executives would naturally get sent to Impel Down. In an arc where Luffy has no friends, Bon Clay filled that role in the most hardcore manner possible. He eventually sacrificed himself to let Luffy get past the Gates of Justice. Of course Bon Clay would do that. After all, he represents the theme of Friendship. And this is just one of the many side characters in One Piece that Oda put a lot of thought of. Of course, I personally think that Bon Clay was the side character Oda spent a lot of thought for. But damn this is a primary example of how Oda writes his side characters. He'll put a lot of love, thought, and time fleshing out his side characters. Hell, even the Supernova who he just thought of and wrote within 1 week as he was writing Sabaody now plays major roles in the late arcs especially Law, Bonney, and Kidd. Oda is an unparalleled writer when it comes to writing side characters. No other mangaka come close to him on this aspect of writing a manga series.
I mean, unless a story is a coming of age or slice of life narrative, I don't think side characters should be strictly important to the plot. In some action-centered stories, their role can be short and at times, irrelevant, and that's okay.
I think the beauty of one piece comes from the fact that the supporting characters actually "support" the protagonist. Luffy will always be th strongest fighter but because of the weaknesses oda gives him his crew supplements where he's lacking. Luffy can't cook, he can't helm a ship, he can't read the poneglyphs he can't navigste the ship and he can't cure diseases. The supporting cast have clearly defined roles that Oda can use them for. Then he builds the opposition and arc around the straw hats as a collective making sure everyone has a role to play in saving the day that way you can't say a character is useless when by way of the arc's design they are necessary.
Oda handles it in One Piece so well because ALL the Strawhats are main characters. He develops the crew and then lets all of the 1000 other characters bounce off them in fun and interesting ways.
Well even then, he does struggle to always give them stuff to do, so there can be times where 2-3 arcs go before we get another storyline for said character. So even he struggles with it to some degree. But while that is happening, his spending that time fleshing out the world and secondary characters ala Law, Fujitora, Pudding, The Scabbards, etc.
@@weewer3369 which is still a problem since that means that even if ussop does get a ton of development in egg head or Elbaf, there is virtually no journey to actually got him their. This is a problem most straw hats have as well but ussop is a major contributor.
@@turkeysgotmorecloutthanyou Yeah that would be 3 arcs since the last significant moment for Usopp, but you gotta understand that this is still better than most series that never circle around with the side characters and have no end game plans for them, every straw hat at least has a few pitstops. I think it'd be also worse if every arc was just focusing on Luffy or Zoro or Nami or something like that, but even in the arcs where Usopp might not get any love, Oda is definitely spending time on OTHER side characters even if they're not always straw. So because of these reasons OP is not perfect at this but its also nowhere near the worst.
Excellent video especially at should the writer do this, not to mention the pressure at working a ruthless business like the manga world where if a story doesn’t sell, it will be canceled.
This is one thing that I think superhero comics do better than shonen, since each hero has their own individual series. Batman and Green Lantern might take a bit of a backseat and let Superman and Flash handle big bad guy in Justice League, but they have their own series and do just as important work. Green Lantern goes around the galaxy helping other plants besides Earth and Batman helps common people from mob bosses. It might be a "smaller" threat, but it's more intimate and relatable. Also, even Justice League comics, even if Batman takes a backseat, he usually makes a plan to defeat the bad guy and all the Justice League has to coordinate and work as a team to defeat the bad guy. In shonen, many of this team work is not done, with fights resorting to the MC and the Villain, with perhaps the MC's rival helping out. Shonen also has a problem with world building - since we're always following the MC, we see everything from his perspective. We can't go to other places where he isn't (usually, there can be episodes where we follow other characters for a bried period). When they go to another place, they don't anything, which can be good since we don't know anything so we learn at the same pace of the MC but it also can turn into episodes of exposition non-stop, because there wasn't an organic way to world build. Also, in the end, shonens are usually written and drawn by the same person, which must be both physically and mentally exhaustive, so no wonder many mangakas simply use the same trope such as power-ups and ditch side characters.
Love the video! Currently writing a story myself and this video helped and inspired me what to do with the side characters. And as a tip can you maybe turn the volume of the background a little bit down? Your voice is getting blocked
To be honest, only like five members of class 1 A feel like non characters. Midoriya (obviously), Todoroki, Iida, Bakugou, Uraraka and Kirishima are real characters with full on character arc, a lot of other characters have moments and fights and hobbies we know about that flesh them out and only like Sato, Koda, Ojiro and Sero are just characters with almost nothing to them. Even then it is understandable considering they are not the only cast and there are characters like Aizawa, All might and other characters relating to the good guys who need development, and that is without mentioning all of the bad guys who are all S tier with almost no exceptions in my opinion.
I'd say a good example of good side characters in shonen would be Shaman King (mostly the manga). They are very well fleshed out, they stay strong enough to fight other characters during the whole series. Hell, some of the villains are stronger than them and the protagonist is not even the stronger in his group, which in my opinion makes for a great dynamic between them
There are also editorial stuff. For example, in yugioh, joey wheeler was supposed to surpass yugi and defeat him at the end of battle city, since he was an avatar for the audience, the new duelist growing and learning the game. But Takahashi's editor thought that would be a disapointing ending
Id say the issue comes down to two main points. The first is the format series. These are weekly/ bi weekly series that that have closely involved editors that will suggest changes at the drop of a hat(see yugioh going from a manga focused on all forms of games to primarily focusing on card games). The secod is the size of the world not being compatible with the size of the narrative. Sticking with yugioh, the world is presented in to where yug naturally have three friends(four if you're exclusively looking at the manga) yet the story only really had room for those who are skilled at games , or have strong connection to ancient egypt. So characters are separated in importance based on that.
The problem with the big side cast trope is when there are good characters in the big cast that get a lack of screen time. Not every side character is meant to play a big role but when you have a good side character and they get pushed to the side that’s when it hurts the show
Yeah Gintama is textbook of character-focused storytelling. The plot maybe cliche and average but the execution is superb. The author put extra effort to create hilarious and unique individuals who seem diverse but actually all of them are kind of insane in different way 😅 Gintama also make the MC deserve his spot without making him perfect or too op, his personality is nasty yet not trashy and his strength is always expected, acknowledged and proved despite not being the strongest being in the universe. the side characters are super interesting and fleshed out but none of them can overshadowed the MC.
This is my biggest issue with so many anime, I can get over dumb side characters like koda or Kiba were never really build as more then what we got but characters like Shino from Naruto or even ida from mha were heavily set up and then completely dropped!
I like how the straw hats are good in there own thing but bad in others that’s why they have to stick to there roles to the end same with others like vivi or garp, I also like the side characters in code geass since I could care if someone as small as rivalz trying to get screen time by protecting Nina
I think at the end of the day side characters have their purpose and main character/main characters have their purpose. Mains, are mains for a reason and the driving force of the story. They gotta see it through the end and finish.
a few random thoughts: tenshinhan does get his one moment in the cell arc (cell even lampshades it) kuroko's basketball is terrible, i read it as it was coming out and when it was over i was like why did i even bother, then read it a few years after in one go and was still like this stinks lol undead unluck is a current series that is giving each character their shine while clearly focused on andy and fuuko
I was just think about this, Rip Todo (no he didn’t die, I just wish he was in the series more 😢) Anyway, great video! Only critique is the music is a bit too loud
Jojo avoids this problem by keeping its scope contained and having enough secondary antagonists for most of the side characters to have their limelight
Just watched your Gon video and this one. Fantastic content my friend. I feel as though this isn't your first rodeo. You're going to keep growing quickly if you keep up the great content my friend. Engaging and entertaining work.
Honestly as far as traditional long running Shonen.... I thin only The OP crew and Fairy Tail do a good job at keeping everyone relevant. Like even in the later arcs they all help save each other or a true moment to shine.
If you were to write off Brook and Franky after their introduction arc, nothing changes. Post timeskip only needs the monster trio, jinbie, and Robin to function cause of how replaceable the straw hats are
Unrelated kinda, but the music is like louder than your voice, should be like 15% lower. 👍(I THINK i get what youre going for making the music loud but it's like too loud)
seems like the solution to this is 2 fold: have the characters do plot important stuff in the background (because they have their own lives to live) and then show up again once in a while to be important to the plot (not arbitrarily, but like well written) and have characters leave the cast for good, (sports anime does this with characters retiring, or graduating,i reckon battle shounen can achieve something similar.)
Hey everyone, thanks for watching! I know the music is kinda loud, so I'll lower it for my next video. Thanks for bearing with it.🙂
thank you
What’s the name of the song?
What’s the name of the song?
@@devonmiller113 did any of y’all find it?
@@risenssbu7344 any luck?
One of the reasons why One Piece side characters felt so alive and relevant even if they didn't show up a lot was because they were always doing something else progressing their own stories/adventures even if they're not in the spotlight. Characters like Ace/Koby/Buggy sometimes got a tiny bite-szied stories at the title page, but when they do come back and they become impactful because they didn't do nothing at the background or just changed new clothes. They are living alongside the straw hats in the same universe
Even if One Piece suffers from some issues. I'll give it credit over a couple of animes on the fact that it certainly feels like the world is in motion even if we don't see all of it.
No other author would take the time to flesh out a characters like Senior Pink, otherwise everything would be as long as One Piece.
@@mvshenhon8966 Even though Oda's kinda fumbling with this recently. The world's gonna get a lot smaller soon.
Yea the cover stories and the world view breaks make the world feel more alive. Even in the current arc without spoiling we've been 1 month away from the straw hats just to focus on side characters. Oda really treats his world and characters with respects as if they are MCs.
Yeah that was pre-ts. Post timeskip a lot characters have just become gags.
I was an unironic tenten fan watching naruto growing up. She stood out to me as the only one of the four genin girls whose primary motivation was getting stronger for Herself and not for the recognition of the guy they crushed on. Then she was a nothing.
fr her use of weapons was so interesting. She was the most like a ninja to me since she relied more on tools than powers.
Which is a weaker motivation and doesn't deserve any attention from author
It one thing to be a side character in Naruto it even worse to be a female character in Naruto. Atleast tsunade is good.
@@TyandOnGoing Tsunade is garbage. Except her most of the female characters were awesome since they shouldn't get any screen time, character development and should only be used as a love interest because Shounen is for boys, except some garbage characters like Ten Ten most female characters in that show is how they should be written in Shounen
@@kyleward7417 you speak like an incel
I love how side characters and team work matters in black clover. So even weaker characters skills play a huge major role in fights even if they’re abilities aren’t offensive
black clover is weird asf with a flying plane version of their base
Yeah the black bulls are the best part of the manga
i thought the black bulls would be a pretty mid cast of side characters beside a few at the start of the story, but now I love them all so much they really feel like a family. Tabata did a good job
Black Clover has a pretty bad start in the beginning but I felt the side characters have always been done justice even in the shows worst moments.
That's also how it is in my hero academia
One example of a Shonen that really does its side characters justice is Hunter x Hunter. Granted it isn't really a classic shonen anime, but almost every single character feels like a real person existing separately from the main characters. Even the main characters are separate from the other main characters. It's an absolute masterpiece in my opinion, mostly because of the characters. By far my favorite anime.
Yes! HXH is one of my faves too, and it's really good at fleshing out and using its characters. Like the phantom troupe or even the zodiacs
I also think Fullmetal Alchemist brotherhood does a good job with side characters but yeah HxH is best at it.
How is hunter x hunter not a classic?
@@Jinfwjump I think by HxH not being classic he means HxH is not as popular as other mainstream action shonen anime's such as Naruto , Demon Slayer , Dragon Ball Z , Bleach, My Hero Academia, Black Clover, Jujutsu Kaisen , Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood , Fairy Tail
@@Jinfwjump "not classic" as in "not traditional." As in, it doesn't follow the traditional style that most shonen action series do.
tabata really did a great job mixing up his main plot + his side characters + mc ...
village arc - magna .
dungeon arc - luck .
cave arc - gauche .
under water temple - all the black bulls and their team work .
witches forest - vanessa .
royal knights - finral ,zora
elf - henry ...
heart - grey ..
all of them had their individual arcs that tabata gave and kept his main plot moving along side them ... as the story goes asta yuno noelle all get their moments developments etc ... characters like yami , william , nozel ,fuego ,mereo even WK julius all had their moments stories .... tabata managed all their stories and his plot made a single story
I think One Piece is the only show I watched where they dedicate an entire long ass arc to flesh out a side character, with said arc becoming one of the best in the series.
I hope you're not talking about Robin
@@zomebody5529 I'm talking about Sanji
@@hugorodriguez8672 I agree, WCI is my favorite post timeskip arc
Well the crew is pretty damn important.
Bro these last 3 chapters are so damn fire the straw hats is not even in those 3. That's how you know Oda knows how to flesh out the side characters.
I really appreciate that you show Haikyuu as a successful attempt at balancing a larger supporting cast. The show manages to not only balance the main team, but also give us at least 1-2 players from many of the rival teams to both root against and later root for.
Fr
I have to admit that near the end of the series it got a bit exhausting for me, and felt like the emphasis on the opponent was killing the momentum during the game, when reading in a weekly publication format. Introducing all those 2-3 flashbacks in 1 set out of two or three during the match made it hard to remember the highlights of the game imo.
Actually One Piece is really good to give a well personality and stories to side characters who actually got screen time and attention🌸
I think Magna from Black Clover is the big standout when it comes to successfully giving side characters stuff to do, at least to me.
Tabata has gotten better overtime at scaling an arc's batch of villains close to each other so his ensemble can feel more capable and awesome.
I also think "raid boss" style villains like Madara and Kaido (though a weakened "raid boss" typically finishes in a 1v1 against the MC) are great ways for a shonen mangaka to keep the teamwork fresh and creative.
I couldn’t agree more, was thinking about Magna for this whole video.
His fight at the end of the last major arc in the manga was amazing
god that magna fight was so peak
Blue Lock is a good example of the supporting cast growing with the mc. IT is such an excellent way to show the cast keep leveling up
peak mid
@@biggpimpin actually well said
It has some good side chatacter development like Bachira, Barou and Reo, but the others like Chigiri, Nagi and Kunigamis I feel they just have a small moment and then cool moments but they don’t get that much development, it’s mainly Isagi
@@biggpimpin True, Bluecock is better
It’s also ironic that Blue lock side characters have some development while they shouldn’t. Blue Lock isn’t supposed to let everyone advance it’s supposed to show how difficult the sport is by not letting everyone pass. But [spoiler] now you can see all players still be here playing defense or even goal while they have been only taught to be strikers. This make absolutely no sense
I think a lot of Mangaka underestimate the power of offscreen developments. One of the thing that I find really consistent with One Piece that made it stood out was the offscreen developments. Offscreen developments allows the side characters to have the illusion of actually growing and in effect the whole world feels larger than life or just simply felt like it's moving outside the main characters. And the best part is that through that, the side characters can easily have one or two highlight moments that can easily satisfy most fans. I don't think I need that much screen time from Rock Lee or Kiba, but at least give me one scene where I can clearly see some growth in their characters rather than making them feel stagnant and just background characters.
Going back to One Piece, I think it's no exaggeration to say that one of the best part about the manga is the SBS and Cover stories. How we see the world is moving outside the main characters' perspectives. Thanks to this offscreen methods, even the most obscure side characters can feel important to the world and story. Some great example of this are Helmeppo and Bellamy. Both went from a 1 dimensional douchebag to actually redeemable and in Bellamy's case tragic character arc. And most of the heavy lifting came from their offscreen developments. The next time we met Helmeppo, he's a lot stronger and is very loyal to his friend. Meanwhile, the next time we met Bellamy, he's a lot more humble and kind towards other. And the conclusion of Bellamy's character was literally done on a cover story with him being a designer. If Naruto had just one scene where Rock Lee get to outperform Gaara like how Might Guy does with Kakakshi in his Madara's fight, I would've been happy. I don't need to see Rock Lee's training arc, all I want is something that can show off his growth.
That's so facts good catch
Great comment. Captured my thoughts very well.
yeah but oda gets to do that because of his expansive and well build world other shonen either their world isnt that well build (ex:fary tail,naruto) or their world is too small to alow such things(ex:chainsaw man)
Oda goes out of his way to focus on his side characters sometimes to the point where the SHs are side characters.
@@asura7915 naruto has amazing world building, don’t know what you are talking about
Just want to point out Black Clover treats its side characters rather well they all get their individual moments to shine
I'd even say BC treats the side characters so well it gets confusing in story. Like how is damn near EVERY Black Bull member an arcane level mage?? I get that Yami went out his way to recruit weirdos and outcasts, some of which are royals but they just get randomly busted abilities at a certain point in the story I'm like aight man. I know it's to have them be relevant in fights later in the series but watching NINE side characters get a hax ability in one year after being third rate mages their whole lives breaks my immersion just a little bit
@buddbrown6858 yami knew they were powerful and saw potential, that's why he recruited them, if you think about it the Black bulls never even got much missions until Asta and Noelle came, so they didn't really have a chance to go all out, like yami for example
I really do love One Piece soo much. Oda writes in such a good way where every arc , each character has some really insightful dialouge or moment and when paired with their character overall gives them such a great developed feel. Even after a characters major development is finished , we still see them being focused on in such small and subtle ways that makes One Piece a treat to re-read in bulk. Its especially apparent when hyper-focusing on a single characters development while re-reading. Recently , I re-read some really key arcs with Nami and my love for that character sky rocketed all over again. This usually happens in Post-timeskip where Oda doesn't have time to give each character dedicated focus , so he gives them crumbs littered throughout the story and when the reader experiences this , its amazing.
An actually smart video that explains why side characters get left behind, instead of just whining about it. To bring up the point that it is actually a conundrum and extremely hard to keep all of them relevant.
Keep up more smart and nuanced videos like this, but also lower your background music. Your voice gets a bit lost sometimes
Hey glad you enjoyed the video! Yeah it's not easy to keep or make all these characters relevant. And I'm sure it's tough on the writers
Also I'll try to balance the music better next time👍
yea this vid is fire (the good kind)
@@hdsadventure3179no one says fire to a bad vid
i think most of the problems stem from the fact, that these shows are entirely built around a single powersystem, only characters that excel at that one particular skill set can be relevant.
dragon ball and naruto are about fighting, food wars is about cooking, ace attorney is about crime solving etc, what if there was one anime that was about everything? (just not at the same time)
shows like adventure time and mlp have several power systems, yet weak characters can still play important roles, as not every problem is solved by fighting alone.
the closest anime i can think of, is one piece, its mostly about fighting, but sometimes sanji enters a cooking competition, some of which are more epic than the actual fights.
I personally believe that anko is the most underutilized female character in naruto, (maybe second to sakura) but her potential was crazy, her story of being orochimaru’s daughter would’ve been really cool to explore further. I think she should’ve been Sasuke’s teacher in the chunin exam instead of kakashi, that way the connection between orochimaru would’ve been even more present. I also think it would’ve been really cool if she could’ve been the sakura to Kakashi and guy’s, naruto and sasuke. just food for thought
Hate to be that guy but Anko was Orochimaru’s apprentice not daughter.
I do agree with you though that Anko is wasted potential.
She is so underutilized that i forgot she existed
She's his student btw but yeah, her connection with Oro could've been a story arc itself.
I think black clover does a great job at building up side characters, like the black bulls felt generic at the start but slowly you get to see the deeper layers in each member and new members through every arc. It isnt just the black bulls either, captains like Nozel, Charlotte, Mereoleona and other characters get well built too. Its amazing to see everyone progress and develop as the story goes on. Also shoutout to my goat Magna beating one of the strongest villains as a side characters in a non bs way. Its my favorite fight in the series for sure
My main issue with this many characters is that you can always have them and they can be this super cool characters that only get to shine one time but it's the author's responsibility whenever they plant a seed in the story, they actually need to let it grow. A lot of author's tend to hype or set up a certain character only to drop the ball with them. They always bite more than they can chew. Tbh, I don't really have an issue with Kiba myself cause there's nothing to expect from him in terms of growth. Kishimoto made clearly set him up to be just a fodder characters to just add an element of quirkiness to the world. Despite being my fav side characters at least early on in the story, purely out of his cool design and power, since it was clear he's not important and wasn't tease to have his own personal character arc, I wasn't really disappointed with his character. Like you said, it all depends on the intention of the managaka. And I think that argument can apply on each individual characters in a series. But then comes Rock Lee who was teased to have major arc revolving him. He literally had a backstory fleshed out and has a whole fight where there's a lot of drama and tension to it. We were made clear of his goals and insecurities of being chakraless. But then Kishimoto done nothing to properly conclude his arc. Comparing him to Kiba who had mainly had gag fight with Naruto, Rock Lee were actually presented as someone that can potentially be important. Or at least were given a reason for fans to get invested in, only for Kishimoto just made him into a background character.
Another example is Momo, who also were set up to be someone special and important given the fact that she was set up as a recommended student and has shown to have massive insecurities for unable to keep up with the weight of expectations of being said recommended student, only for it to amount to nothing. I don't mind Koji, cause at least, throughout the story he was never being set up to have any relevancy to the main plot or to have any personal arc. I think he served his role just fine even if he's nothing more than a background character cause that's how Horikoshi set him up. Point being, you are allowed to have an expansive and diverse cast of side characters and not expand upon them, but it if you decided to expand on them, don't half assed it and actually give them a closure.
MHA gotta have the worst side cast of all time
All the big 3 have rlly good side casts
kishimoto really hyped rock lee up to the same level as gaara and sasuke and even naruto…and then other than in the kazekage arc bro doesn’t even exist to the story
@@jimbo7551 true and in bleach with chad , ichigo and uryus dads , some of the captains
Yeah, part of issue isn’t even them being or not being in the story
If the story can’t support them anymore, it’d be nice to just see them retire or simply shuffle out gracefully for the new cast like db did with Bulma and Roshi or what HxH and jojo does with almost all they’re characters.
If anything, the fact that they’re time onscreen was established to be short and often with an ending just ends with them leaving a stronger impression in our mind due to how fleeting they were and able to go out on top.
Their impact has value because they’re story HAS an ending, which infinitely better than constantly bringing back and benching a character over and over again.
Like??? I don’t think Gohan fans actually care about him being a fighter as much as they say. Really they just want closure for the poor guy, rather than having to learn the same things over and over again and watch the story bring him back just to bench him because they have 0 ideas for what they want him to do.
I mean???
It’s part of why fans are in less of a hurry to bring back characters like Bulma, Krillin or Roshi.
One of the reasons i love bc , side cast is really well developed 🔥
They'e called a supporting cast because they're there to support to the main characters in some way.
as someone who is making a very character centric manga with the intention of creating an ensemble roster, this video has given me confidence that I'm on the right track
I found the topic of Giorno in Golden Wind to be interesting, because I personally felt like he was a much more well developed version of what they tried to do with Jotaro in part 3. Yes, he's in the background until he needs to act, but he does so with purpose. He states from the start that he aims to be the boss, and shows traits that better fit a leader than a shounen protagonist. Namely, he's able to trust his team and delegate tasks, as well as encourage their growth as individuals. He's often seen in the middling episodes offering small bits of help, but never just solving the problem like Jotaro did. I actually liked that a lot about him, despite most people I hear from just finding him boring or lacking. It's like... cool to see (or not see) this more introverted protag act in a way that doesn't break his nature, but still gets things done.
I love opinions like yours that understand how interesting of a character Giorno is
@@JackofNoTrades100 Thank you! ♥
Problem with side characters is that they do a lot of "Goes nowhere does nothing" after being introduced or being reintroduced i.e. former villain becomes ally trope. A lot of this has to do with Editor manipulation of what makes your manga the most popular so new characters have to be constantly introduced to rise the stakes or keep readers interested. It's not like making a story on your own in a vacuum. It's one of the reasons why American attempts at a anime like style like Avatar for example seem to have a more meaty story because we realize that it's important to focus on a strong central cast of characters rather than dumping a bunch of characters with weird quirks like saying "ka" at the end of your sentences. You know what I mean, ka?
Fantastic video. I never thought about it before about authors not wanting to take attention away from the main character before. I also really like smaller main casts. Your example of Yu Yu Hakusho shows how everyone in that smaller cast can be well developed.
Dragonball should have been on that thumbnail over one piece. One piece has arguably the best side characters in all of shonen. Meanwhile Dragonball is the Goku and Vegeta show when Goku isn’t stealing Vegeta’s spotlight to make it the Goku show cough Moro arc cough resurrection F cough
One piece in the thumbnail, get more views
I think the issue with a lot of shonen is each one seems to be trying be the next Dragonball or One Piece where they endure for decades and continuously get more content. And this problem extends to more than just the the creators, but the editors and people in power who want another long running series. So if a series was meant to last like 100 chapters, its extended, and what was meant to be the right amount of moments for a supporting character to get their time to shine is now insufficient because the increased length.
It's absolutely understandable that developing side characters in shoenen isn't always possible due to time constraints, but I'll never forgive Naruto for doing Rock Lee dirty as they did
Rock lee, gara, neji etc
@@Gpoeit gaara was the kage of his respective village and was involved in most arcs Tf?
@@turkeysgotmorecloutthanyou your talking about the village hidden in the show time every village besides konoha has basically zero background besides the kage which makes it irrelevant
@@Gpoeit village hidden in the sand is the first village that we are actively told about. They play a big roll in their introduction arc and we learn about the characters in the village and the politics that led to them doing what they did.
What more do you want???
Unless you want a one piece style arc where the most boring characters imaginable take up lots of space, it’s a lot better this way.
We learn enough about the village, we don’t need long segments of time devoted to it.
Gaara has amazing development
@@turkeysgotmorecloutthanyou actually that's exactly what I want fun characters from other villages that actually mean something. maybe if kisihmoto fleshed out other villages and made them stronger Boruto could have avoided many of the problems it faces now
Thank you for giving hitman reborn a shoutout as an example of an anime or manga that does a good job of giving there side characters shine
Side characters need to be expanded during filler.
I saw that Shinso from MHA when you said “character that fades into irrelevancy” and I FELT THAT SO HARD. It was by far my favorite from the first season…..then NOTHING.
I mean as you stated, many side casts were never meant to be anything more than measuring sticks for the main character to show where they were and how far they've come. I used to understand why people felt such annoyance over how Kishimoto did his side cast until I realized that as you said he introduced these characters and fleshed them out somewhat to not be nondescript background characters but they were never meant to be as important as people would like to believe. As soon as the Akatsuki was introduced and Sasuke left the village, it was VERY clear that the story was shifting to not only focus on Naruto at that point, but Sasuke. They were always going to have the most importance and they were always highlighted as the two "special" characters in the series so of course everyone else would fade into obscurity. They were only really needed in the chunin exam and in the Sasuke retrival arc. I would say that the only side characters who were really necessary and given enough screen time to show this were Shikamaru and Hinata.
Fairy Tail had its main cast, but weirdly enough I never felt that Mashima did a complete disservice to his sidecast. I definitely think there were moments where the side characters got to shine and have their own importance. But I definitely think Haikyuu perfectly did their side cast justice, same with Blue Lock. There is no character in Blue Lock that the author acts like is expendable unless he very CLEARLY indicates their story is over. You also made an excellent point about how fleshing out side characters has to fall within the plot of the show. One piece, its expected. With sports anime, its also expected. With Fairy Tail, its expected. I would also say its expected with Bleach simply because the story starts off with Ichigo being ingratiated into a different society than his and through that more races were discovered so expanding on that made sense and I also think Bleach did as well as they could with their side cast. With MHA, I'll give Hirokoshi some slack, because the story is supposed to be Izuku recounting his journey so obviously more focus would be on the characters he was in closer proximity to when it come to his journey, also he does try to keep the other classmates relevant. The vigilante arc definitely showed that and this final arc is showing that as well.
To wrap up my thoughts, I just feel like fans would enjoy series more if they realized what it is for some characters. You can love a side character but you can't really be so mad over them not playing a larger role when it was very clear they were being used as a device to develop the MC and move the plot along. It happens all the time in different forms of literature. It is what it is.
well said. I think Naruto is a pretty flagrant example of not giving side characters anything to do (great series but deserves every mention it gets here), it's definitely important for readers to realize a lot of these characters were never intended to be important. You liking them more than the protagonist doesn't mean the author should stop the story they want to tell to shoehorn it in
Glad you talked about this issue, as I think about it a lot. I think generally the biggest problem is strength, since a lot of shonen are battle-ridden. As such, when a character is much weaker than the main MC, they are just limited in what they can do in the story and battles when the author doesn't want them to become stronger.
This is one of the reason I love small scale shonens like demon slayer and jujutsu kaisen(except gojo and sukuna)
Black Clover: "I suffer no such weakness"
Black clover: And yet I manage to be worse Shounen than all of them
Tabata is very good at managing characters
One of the reasons I love black clover is that it doesn't have this problem that is arguably common in battle shonens. The main cast aside from mc get their own screen time and moments, and even outside of that main cast there are plenty of characters that aren't forgotten. Also although the power system is kinda cliche (magic), tabata wrote it in a very creative and good way that makes most of the side characters not be left behind and have their chances to shine (if you read the manga, you already know magna vs....🌚)
Great video btw ^^
I never read the manga unfortunately but Black clover succeeds with it's side characters with the way it handles their arcs. They'll explore a side character or 2 for an arc, but actually give a conclusion to their specific arc before sidelining them for awhile. And if they don't fully conclude the arc the mangaka teased early on in the arc, theyll pick it up in the future. So far I haven't seen too many times where tabata teases a character moment or arc and then drops it. There's tons of side characters but they are either obviously side characters or he delivers what he promises.
@@plaecholder I couldn't agree more, if you're not caught up with the manga you should read it, you definitely won't be disappointed, The spade kingdom raid is some of the most shonen battle shit I've ever read, and a lot of side characters had their goated moments . And if you dont have anything spoiled, the reading will be even better. The manga is not hard/heavy to read at all and tabata's art is great. Current arc is also going crazy.
The anime ended in chapter 270 btw.
yea but mid characterization lolz
This is one of the reasons I hate Black Clover, it has this problem that most Shounen doesn't have, which is giving characters screen time. Side characters shouldn't have any development, personality, and should stay in the side because the story isn't about them, it's about the MC, and side characters should be thrown away as soon as their isn't any reason for them in the story, which is why Black Clover is complete Garbage and Naruto did it right by focusing on characters who the story is actually about
@@hydrocy.9165 nice bait
I think the best large ensemble anime’s are the ones where a group of characters are the main protagonist, with 1-2 taking center stage (Soul Eater w/Maka&Soul, or Gundam IBO w/Orga&Mikazuki).
Those main protagonists’ character arcs may get the most focus, but they aren’t inherently linked to plot progression. This opens up other characters to do plot relevant stuff and allows the cool moments to be shared with the group.
Don't sleep on my boy tien he held off cell for like 30 minutes or something😭
I think a problem Shonen has is authors tend to want to have an interesting and cool looking cast of character but don't want to put in the surrounding support you need for such a thing. Allowing off screen growth that keeps up a bit with the main cast, keeping them tied to the plot in some way, making the main cast and supporting cast have strong meaningful bonds and moments, etc.
And the power scaling they end up using just becomes unsustainable. Like in Dragon Ball in which characters like Dyspo which spec in one thing (ie. speed) feel out of place when Goku and Vegeta and other characters are jack of all trades and still whoop his butt. When "The Fastest in the Universe" is a laughable title cuz Frieza literally exists. To be fair, Dragon Ball isn't supposed to be taken seriously since the author loves his gags but you get what I mean. Rock Lee may be training to be the strongest taijutsu specialist but since he isn't written to be part of the plot and is just relegated to set dressing Naruto and Sasuke get power boosts that invalidate the techniques and styles of whole bloodlines and moves the series further away from what made the early ninja fights nice imo.
To the point where even right now in Boruto with Rock Lee probably being in his prime he'd still lose to One Eyed Sasuke and Sage Hokage Naruto without using the Eight Gate and literally dying. Because Naruto and Sasuke are supposed to be the strongest until Boruto, Kawaki and Sarada grow up.
Actually also that just reminded me. Why hasn't Rock Lee and any of the others done anything in Boruto? Wasn't the whole point of a lot of the fights that the bad guys are forcing the good guys to use taijutsu more so why not whip out 7th Gate Adult Rock Lee which is probably stronger than Might Guy ever was 💀
What makes boruto even worse is that it's monthly manga and nothing happened it's monthly while Naruto was weekly it makes some mistake but we can excuse since how hard it was to work and you can't to focuses on everything
Black Bulls are one of most well done “main” side casts I have seen. They feel like a family and every single one of them matter to the Black Bulls
If mha followed black clovers approach to side characters it would be so much better in that department.
Make 1a smaller and link every character there to the idea of this broken hero society similar to how every black bull member is linked to the broken class society.
Have arcs focused on a particular character and them dealing with their struggles in contrast to the villain of that arc who also suffers from hero society.
Yeah mha has alot of characters that unfortunately just don't have much of a connection to the main plot, and honestly, they aren't really strong enough to participate very often. There's alot to work with with but it's not easy to get it all to work.
Yeh i dunno about that one, like yeh my hero has cool characters but not everyone needs to be relevant imo, it would one drag out the story way longer than needed especially when the characters themselves are pretty straight forward " they just would want to heros. Except for a few of them they did go over some characters back stories and the discrimination they faced and how their actions counterpart the villains ( wont spoil because i dont know you and will respect anyone potentially reading this comment). I just feel it makes it feel more real because not everyone is important tbh... EXCEPT for one piece, its side characters are so good oda is a god and he wrote sanji perfectly.
lol this person Obvs does not read the manga. Rn a lot of characters are getting showtime and even complete backstories like Shoji and Koda. So no
@@black_deus @Blâck Deüs I do read the manga🙂. Also keep in mind that this video was made almost a year ago before alot of the suffering happening now had happened. But also the stuff for example with Koda and shoji took basicly until the end of the series to happen, and it would be nice to get a little bit more of that throughout the whole series. I'm definitely not saying Koda needs to be bakugo levels of important lol, but it would be nice to get a bit more from them throughout the series
@@krow14 I get where you're coming from.
I don't think everyone can or should todoroki or bakugo levels of important, its just disappointing to see a character who seems cool not really get a chance to do anything or make them tick. And because they aren't really relevant there really isn't a reason to. It can just feel disappointing some time. Also it is nice to see characters like Koda getting a bit more stuff going on now.
Currently, I've been rewatching Naruto, after 15 long years.... I was so sure that Lee would have a mention here xD I wholeheartedly agree with everything you said!
lol lee is definitely part of the discussion, my boy didn't even get to win one fight
W video and soundtrack all around good job, me personally I disagree on the black clover point b/c I think it still falls into that same trap of having too many characters falling into obscurity.
Great video! I haven’t really seen many people discussing this topic. Your script writing and and editing is on point, you really captured my attention. I see the music has already been addressed so other than that, loved what you had to say. Keep it up
Mercy For side characters like Akaginu too from Hell's Paradise
Edit:That Hottie literally just died in 3rd episode other good side characters also got killed :(
A show where the same truck driver has accidentally killed multiple teens who became Isekai protagonists in different worlds.
Each time the driver is not in trouble because it can clearly be proven its not his fault (dashcam footage). A detective suspects foul play and infiltrates this truck drivers group therapy session circle. Realises the driver is innocent, then gets run over by the driver. Driver now has PTSD for accidentally killing not just another person, but a close friend. In his final moments, all the victims he killed appear before him and tell him its not his fault. They talk about the lives they lived in other world, and that was only possible because of the driver. The driver smiles, and passes away. [End of 6 episode mini series]
Another excellent video with some truly exquisite editing 💖
Thank you! I'm glad you've liked my stuff so far😭
It's crazy, I uploaded this almost a year ago and suddenly, people are finding it 😂
21:15 As a Black Clover fan I love it when we get a mention, but its crazy to hear praise. Thank you kind sir.
Thats what i love about fairy tail and one piece the characters we love from the begining can still be usefull and meaningfull at the end, that its not only the natsu and luffy show 😊
Scrolling through the comment section and I don't think has mentioned about Katekyo Hitman Reborn!'s cast!
I would love someone to analyze that series!
Impressive and high quality video. Subscribed
One piece is the undisputed king when it commes to side caracthers
Very good video! I never even asked myself these questions as a writer. I will write differently with this in mind
The shonen with the best side cast I've watched is black clover by far, the way every one of the black bulls is fleshed out and explored is just incredible.
When it comes to large casts in shows I think the best examples are star trek TNG and DS9. They pulled it off by not just having their characters get more development as the show runs, but also have those characters represent different ideologies and have different motives that bounce of each other, thus creating a unique dynamic for the whole show
Dude I love the fact that you reference Picolo because Picolo is literally one of my favourite DBZ characters after Gohan and Cell ...The best Picolo moment is him vs 17..I get goosebumps watching their fight👍🔥💯🔥😁👍
I think this is probably a problem that shonen has more than a lot of other types of writing because of the way it's usually structured. like in the Dragon Ball Z power scaling example... if the only type of problem that the series presents to the characters is the type that can be solved with increasingly escalating powers, then yeah... you're gonna have a lot of characters fall off when they can't keep up. but there are other types of problems and solutions that can exist in a narrative. I just think shonen tends to under utilize them, proportionally speaking.
for example... Golden Kamuy is one of my favorite series, and it's a seinen historical fiction, so magic powers don't even exist in this narrative. that means that the plot has to rely on literally anything else when it comes to conflict, and solutions. and that makes it more compelling... literally the plot can become more tense when the characters are disempowered by the circumstances they find themselves in. and very niche problems may require very niche solutions, which is where the supporting cast can actually get dragged back _into_ relevancy, over and over again.
anyway, my example is this: in Golden Kamuy, there is a character introduced named Shiraishi Yoshitake. and he's an idiot. primarily, he's used as a comic relief character, but there are two things about him that are really important. one is that, as part of the main plot of the story, the protagonists are going around looking for escaped prisoners with tattoos on their skins that, when pieced together, form a map of encoded instructions that leads to a huge cache of stolen ainu gold. Shiraishi is one of those prisoners, so they need him. on top of that, Shiraishi's one special skill is that he's the escape king. he can break out of damn near anywhere, and was actually in prison for so long in the first place, because after his initial crime, he kept breaking out and getting caught again. he's broken out of almost every prison in the region, and they literally cannot figure out how to stop him from doing this. so, when the main crew REALLY needs to talk to someone important to the plot, who is being held in a maximum security prison that they can't just waltz on into... they need Shiraishi's help, to break _in._
the best part is that Shiraishi is a dumbass. they buy a bunch of grenades to use when they get to the prison, as part of their plan, but then while they're at a hotel along the way, there's a fire and Shiraishi accidentally drops the bag of grenades into the burning basement, so they lose them all, and also blow up the hotel. then Shiraishi loses almost all of the rest of their money betting on horse races, because he's trying to win and pay them back for the materials he lost. they only _actually_ make their money back because one of their traveling companions replaces a jockey in the race, and wins when he was supposed to throw the race on purpose. this runs their group afoul of a yakuza leader, who was the one trying to rig the race, and ended up losing a bunch of money instead... and there's a whole side bit where that guy tries to murder them. and on top of that, Shiraishi randomly gets detained again because he's recognized by the military as a prison escapee, and he keeps evading their attempts to rescue him, because for a moment there he's convinced that the protagonist has figured out that, all throughout their journey so far, Shiraishi has been threatened into passing information to a rival faction that is also pursuing the gold. so Shiraishi thinks the protagonist is gonna kill him, even though that's not actually the case, and they can't clear up the misunderstanding until they get Shiraishi back from the military, in spite of Shiraishi's own attempts to foil their efforts, because he's a dumbass.
the result is that Shiraishi is one of my favorite characters in the entire damn series. he's endlessly entertaining, he's like a friggin loony toon, and you can't power scale him out of relevancy because wtf would that even _mean_ in this context?? and also, by the time they actually use his niche skill for the niche purpose that it was good for... Shiraishi and the rest of the crew have grown close enough that he _decides_ to keep traveling with them, because these people are _important_ to each other... and they don't _need_ another reason! and his niche skill can still come in handy whenever it happens to fit the bill, it's great, and he also never stops being funny, which is also great, and it really is just that easy. and Shiraishi is just a minor example... a _lot_ of characters in this story become and remain interesting because of the complex interplay of their motives and utility to one another in this way. that guy who took the role of the jockey? he's got so much going on under the surface, that he upends literally everything they think they know about what they're doing, on several occasions. it's just really solid writing!
like, ask yourself why you stay friends with any of your actual IRL people that you hang out with. none of you are magic, and there's no threat against the fate of the world for you to deal with... the truth is, people can be engaging by their own merit, just because they're entertaining to listen to, or fun to be around. charisma goes a long way, and when a character has it, it's valid to just let them exist, and be that.
and to that end... I think it can also pay off, in a big way, to curb some of the shonen formula's basic excesses. don't overload the cast with too many characters. use what you've got first, then see if there's room for anyone else. if you keep introducing people who would be satisfying to get to know, and then dropping them as soon as you design another guy who looks cool, you're just gonna frustrate the audience, and then none of it will matter. if even the author isn't willing to dedicate themselves to the characters, what reason does the audience have to do the same?
Which is why shows with tight knit, colorful casts that has great banter with each other are my favorite. CSM Part1, Konosuba and Kaguya-sama are the most prominent example
Definitely like this exploration of the why in siding the side characters. Keep on this kind of content.
i feel like there's too much focus on the main character when there not complex enough to carry all that time add the Main character wants to be strongest X and it just becomes too boring watching him single handily carry the whole thing for god knows how long . like go over all these shounen shows did the mc really need all this fights did we really need to see him say he wont give up for 100th time lets go one step further does the MC really need to take out every big bad of an arc ? One punch man is a good example we all know what Sitama deal is we all know no one can or will keep up with him but the Author use that and keeps him on the side until hes truly needed and gives time for the more complex and less op characters a chance to show off and also let the moments when MC step up actually stand out instead of being a weekly routine .
But there's like 11 different characters in class when A that are actually relevant to the story and everybody else has their moments
I miss when Tien had more screentime and importance to the story :
Thank you for giving me some insight on what's been going on here. The idea is to sew your cast more integrally with the narrative, but how could the Black Bulls improve this aspect because it doesn't feel fully realized. (I'm looking at Charmy and the painting captain)
Personally I think a lot of these problems can be solved by having a revolving door of characters where we can see offscreen developments. This makes the characters feel fleshed out more and helps with the worldbuilding.
It could even have an unforeseen effect on the core characters, like take Tien becoming a Dojo Master in Super. This could've inspired Goku or at least plant the seed that other strong fighters won't get stronger without help. He needs to pay forward what's been sewn into him, eventually this leads to Pan and Uub.
To hammer this idea home for the audience, we could see Tien's years of offscreen training payoff with some highlight moments that can give more important characters a run for their money, but him finding satisfaction in his continuous effort despite having new priorities.
If you've caught up with the Black Clover manga (I don't want to spoil you), you'll understand that Charmy will likely be an impostant character in the final arc that's unfolding. And we'll probably get her backstory too, so it's just a matter of time.
No one does justice to its side characters as well as One Piece. It is unrivaled in this department. Moving the ongoing worldwide developments without even showing a single Strawhat is something while giving focus about what a side character is currently doing is another. But the most mind-boggling about how Oda writes his side characters is that he writes them with as much thought and care as he does writing a Strawhat crew member.
Think about Bon Clay back in Alabasta. Oda didnt just write a gag character in the LGBTQ spectrum there, he wrote a moving and talking theme. As all throughout the Alabasta Arc, it was telling Vivi's development as she deepens her relationship with the Strawhats. How she found precious friends that will not abandon her fight. It was on that arc where the iconic Luffy punching a woman because she was willing to sacrifice herself for her people and Luffy made her realize that the Strawhat crew is her friends now and that she needs to depend on them from there on forward.
And then there's this character Bon Clay who got lost and found in the Going Merry. He suddenly made friends with the Strawhats and they immediately bonded and laughing with each other. He also showed his powers wherein he could copy their faces. Then later on he was picked up by his crew and was saddened by the fact that he will now be leaving Luffy and co. But before he left, he quoted that "Friendship doesn't depend on the length of time spent together." Now this quote rings so true for both the Strawhats + Vivi and the Baroque Works. While the Strawhats and Vivi just met days ago inside Laboon, they immediately forged this precious connection and became loyal friends with each other while on the other hand, Baroque Works who've been working together for God knows how many years now still hates each other and even stab each other's backs. Even Crocodile and Miss All Sunday who've been there the longest doesnt hold a single shred of trust with each other and Crocodile even tried to kill her. So, yes. Oda was indeed consistent here with what he wrote about "Friendship doesnt depend of the length of time spent together" and he did this through Bon Clay. But Oda the madlad didnt even stop here.
Remember Bon Clay's copy fruit that he revealed to the Strawhats? Vivi eventually recognized it and is now panicking how they'll be sure that Bon Clay wont portray as one of the Strawhats and sabotage all their hardwork to save Alabasta. In order to counter Bon Clay's powers, they marked their arms with the "X" signifying their friendship. And this really indeed help them recognize the real from the fake. Now fast forward, Crocodile is now defeated, people now realize how Crocodile was the mastermind that caused the Civil War, the Strawhats now were able to feast on their hard earned palace food, and now they're bound to leave Alabasta. Vivi, who now really has deep connection with the Strawhats, is now put on a dilemma whether to join the Strawhats and leave or stay for her country. She ultimately decides the latter. She loves her people so much that she is now ready to say goodbye to her precious friends. But how could she when the Marines are around. They'll suspect her if she will outright say that they are friends and tag her as a pirate. What does the Strawhats do? They just remained quite and did the iconic gesture. All of their hands raised showing the "X" that proves that they are friends and Vivi immediately gets it and cries in relief and happiness. And we wouldnt have gotten this scene if it wasnt for Mr. 2 Bon Clay and his powers. Oda made Bon Clay the representation of the theme of friendship all throughout this arc. The one who exclaimed "Friendship doesnt depend on the length of time spent together" during the beginning of the arc was the same guy used by Oda as the closing scene of the arc as well as he was the only reason why the Strawhat had the X = Friendship mark on each of their arms. That scene was what made Vivi an honorary Strawhat member. And you think Oda ended Bon Clay's role here? ABSOLUTELY NO.
After getting blasted off to Amazon Lily, Luffy, all by himself, eventually knew that Ace is gonna get executed. Of course he wouldnt let that happen so he goes to Impel Down all by himself. And just when we thought Luffy is just gonna accomplish this incredible feat all by himself, we were shown that Bon Clay was there. And it perfectly made sense since Baroque Works executives would naturally get sent to Impel Down. In an arc where Luffy has no friends, Bon Clay filled that role in the most hardcore manner possible. He eventually sacrificed himself to let Luffy get past the Gates of Justice. Of course Bon Clay would do that. After all, he represents the theme of Friendship.
And this is just one of the many side characters in One Piece that Oda put a lot of thought of. Of course, I personally think that Bon Clay was the side character Oda spent a lot of thought for. But damn this is a primary example of how Oda writes his side characters. He'll put a lot of love, thought, and time fleshing out his side characters. Hell, even the Supernova who he just thought of and wrote within 1 week as he was writing Sabaody now plays major roles in the late arcs especially Law, Bonney, and Kidd. Oda is an unparalleled writer when it comes to writing side characters. No other mangaka come close to him on this aspect of writing a manga series.
I mean, unless a story is a coming of age or slice of life narrative, I don't think side characters should be strictly important to the plot. In some action-centered stories, their role can be short and at times, irrelevant, and that's okay.
One of the only UA-camrs who supports Reborn. Big ups, love the video :)
this is why i love world trigger. the side characters are as awesome as the main cast maybe more.
I think the beauty of one piece comes from the fact that the supporting characters actually "support" the protagonist. Luffy will always be th strongest fighter but because of the weaknesses oda gives him his crew supplements where he's lacking. Luffy can't cook, he can't helm a ship, he can't read the poneglyphs he can't navigste the ship and he can't cure diseases. The supporting cast have clearly defined roles that Oda can use them for. Then he builds the opposition and arc around the straw hats as a collective making sure everyone has a role to play in saving the day that way you can't say a character is useless when by way of the arc's design they are necessary.
Oda handles it in One Piece so well because ALL the Strawhats are main characters. He develops the crew and then lets all of the 1000 other characters bounce off them in fun and interesting ways.
Well even then, he does struggle to always give them stuff to do, so there can be times where 2-3 arcs go before we get another storyline for said character. So even he struggles with it to some degree. But while that is happening, his spending that time fleshing out the world and secondary characters ala Law, Fujitora, Pudding, The Scabbards, etc.
Ussop hasn’t done anything in over a decade just so you remember
@@turkeysgotmorecloutthanyou Dressrosa's content wasn't 10 years ago...though soon.
@@weewer3369 which is still a problem since that means that even if ussop does get a ton of development in egg head or Elbaf, there is virtually no journey to actually got him their.
This is a problem most straw hats have as well but ussop is a major contributor.
@@turkeysgotmorecloutthanyou Yeah that would be 3 arcs since the last significant moment for Usopp, but you gotta understand that this is still better than most series that never circle around with the side characters and have no end game plans for them, every straw hat at least has a few pitstops.
I think it'd be also worse if every arc was just focusing on Luffy or Zoro or Nami or something like that, but even in the arcs where Usopp might not get any love, Oda is definitely spending time on OTHER side characters even if they're not always straw.
So because of these reasons OP is not perfect at this but its also nowhere near the worst.
Excellent video especially at should the writer do this, not to mention the pressure at working a ruthless business like the manga world where if a story doesn’t sell, it will be canceled.
This is one thing that I think superhero comics do better than shonen, since each hero has their own individual series. Batman and Green Lantern might take a bit of a backseat and let Superman and Flash handle big bad guy in Justice League, but they have their own series and do just as important work. Green Lantern goes around the galaxy helping other plants besides Earth and Batman helps common people from mob bosses. It might be a "smaller" threat, but it's more intimate and relatable.
Also, even Justice League comics, even if Batman takes a backseat, he usually makes a plan to defeat the bad guy and all the Justice League has to coordinate and work as a team to defeat the bad guy. In shonen, many of this team work is not done, with fights resorting to the MC and the Villain, with perhaps the MC's rival helping out.
Shonen also has a problem with world building - since we're always following the MC, we see everything from his perspective. We can't go to other places where he isn't (usually, there can be episodes where we follow other characters for a bried period). When they go to another place, they don't anything, which can be good since we don't know anything so we learn at the same pace of the MC but it also can turn into episodes of exposition non-stop, because there wasn't an organic way to world build.
Also, in the end, shonens are usually written and drawn by the same person, which must be both physically and mentally exhaustive, so no wonder many mangakas simply use the same trope such as power-ups and ditch side characters.
Love the video! Currently writing a story myself and this video helped and inspired me what to do with the side characters. And as a tip can you maybe turn the volume of the background a little bit down? Your voice is getting blocked
Wow, I'm glad my video could help even if a little bit! Also yeah, I've been getting comments about the music so I'll keep it lowered in the future 🙂
To be honest, only like five members of class 1 A feel like non characters. Midoriya (obviously), Todoroki, Iida, Bakugou, Uraraka and Kirishima are real characters with full on character arc, a lot of other characters have moments and fights and hobbies we know about that flesh them out and only like Sato, Koda, Ojiro and Sero are just characters with almost nothing to them. Even then it is understandable considering they are not the only cast and there are characters like Aizawa, All might and other characters relating to the good guys who need development, and that is without mentioning all of the bad guys who are all S tier with almost no exceptions in my opinion.
I see what you're saying, but there's way more than five for example Koji, Ida, tentocol, aoyama, tokoyami ect even invisible girl
I'd say a good example of good side characters in shonen would be Shaman King (mostly the manga). They are very well fleshed out, they stay strong enough to fight other characters during the whole series. Hell, some of the villains are stronger than them and the protagonist is not even the stronger in his group, which in my opinion makes for a great dynamic between them
There are also editorial stuff. For example, in yugioh, joey wheeler was supposed to surpass yugi and defeat him at the end of battle city, since he was an avatar for the audience, the new duelist growing and learning the game. But Takahashi's editor thought that would be a disapointing ending
Id say the issue comes down to two main points.
The first is the format series. These are weekly/ bi weekly series that that have closely involved editors that will suggest changes at the drop of a hat(see yugioh going from a manga focused on all forms of games to primarily focusing on card games).
The secod is the size of the world not being compatible with the size of the narrative. Sticking with yugioh, the world is presented in to where yug naturally have three friends(four if you're exclusively looking at the manga) yet the story only really had room for those who are skilled at games , or have strong connection to ancient egypt. So characters are separated in importance based on that.
The problem with the big side cast trope is when there are good characters in the big cast that get a lack of screen time. Not every side character is meant to play a big role but when you have a good side character and they get pushed to the side that’s when it hurts the show
Gintama is top tier when it comes to side characters
Yeah Gintama is textbook of character-focused storytelling. The plot maybe cliche and average but the execution is superb. The author put extra effort to create hilarious and unique individuals who seem diverse but actually all of them are kind of insane in different way 😅 Gintama also make the MC deserve his spot without making him perfect or too op, his personality is nasty yet not trashy and his strength is always expected, acknowledged and proved despite not being the strongest being in the universe. the side characters are super interesting and fleshed out but none of them can overshadowed the MC.
This is my biggest issue with so many anime, I can get over dumb side characters like koda or Kiba were never really build as more then what we got but characters like Shino from Naruto or even ida from mha were heavily set up and then completely dropped!
Really good video, but criminal to not have included eyeshield 21 and his INSANE job at side- charactering
One show I can say kept a small group to focus on and stayed true to the side characters is ippo
Really really good vid man, can’t wait to se your channel’s growth!!🤝
Writing side characters sucks but it’s needed lol I’m trying now and it’s terrible
Great video! Keep up the great work!
I like how the straw hats are good in there own thing but bad in others that’s why they have to stick to there roles to the end same with others like vivi or garp, I also like the side characters in code geass since I could care if someone as small as rivalz trying to get screen time by protecting Nina
I think at the end of the day side characters have their purpose and main character/main characters have their purpose. Mains, are mains for a reason and the driving force of the story. They gotta see it through the end and finish.
Whoa, I was watching thinking this was some 100k+ sub youtuber. You deserve more views and subs man.
Thanks! Maybe one day I'll reach that level 🫡
honestly for a small youtuber really impressive video!
a few random thoughts:
tenshinhan does get his one moment in the cell arc (cell even lampshades it)
kuroko's basketball is terrible, i read it as it was coming out and when it was over i was like why did i even bother, then read it a few years after in one go and was still like this stinks lol
undead unluck is a current series that is giving each character their shine while clearly focused on andy and fuuko
Fantastic thumbnail I hope this video grows
Good video man, but you shoud have turned down the volume of the music, I almost can't hear you
I was just think about this, Rip Todo (no he didn’t die, I just wish he was in the series more 😢)
Anyway, great video! Only critique is the music is a bit too loud
1:14 the accidental grope is a classic
Jojo avoids this problem by keeping its scope contained and having enough secondary antagonists for most of the side characters to have their limelight
Shout-out to the original Saint Seiya manga for keeping all characters relevant.
That super statement aged like milk beast gohan and orange picalo staring intensely
Just watched your Gon video and this one. Fantastic content my friend. I feel as though this isn't your first rodeo.
You're going to keep growing quickly if you keep up the great content my friend.
Engaging and entertaining work.
Thank you! I really appreciate it and I'm glad you liked the videos.
Hopefully I can keep it up hahaha
Honestly as far as traditional long running Shonen.... I thin only The OP crew and Fairy Tail do a good job at keeping everyone relevant. Like even in the later arcs they all help save each other or a true moment to shine.
Also, narratively, all the Strawhats are main characters.
If you were to write off Brook and Franky after their introduction arc, nothing changes.
Post timeskip only needs the monster trio, jinbie, and Robin to function cause of how replaceable the straw hats are
@@turkeysgotmorecloutthanyou Goku avatar
@@MrDoctorJudge obscure anime character in banana pfp
@@turkeysgotmorecloutthanyou you definitely don't rember anything from whole cake island
Unrelated kinda, but the music is like louder than your voice, should be like 15% lower. 👍(I THINK i get what youre going for making the music loud but it's like too loud)
seems like the solution to this is 2 fold:
have the characters do plot important stuff in the background (because they have their own lives to live)
and then show up again once in a while to be important to the plot (not arbitrarily, but like well written)
and
have characters leave the cast for good,
(sports anime does this with characters retiring, or graduating,i reckon battle shounen can achieve something similar.)
I repeat. For Naruto, the Sasuke retrival arc showed us how side characters can be fleshed out and given moments.
It's weekly manga issue if you don't deliver in time they will cut the down and another issue is thier health issues
Why your background music so fucking hype bro💀