Thank you 🥰 Wherever possible I try and work a few months out, especially with bigger ticket items. Some stuff only surfaces with extended real-world use
@@DaddyGotCoffeeplease continue, I think it’s overlooked how important this is. I genuinely prefer your reviews and coffee chronicler because of this reason
Very informative review. And can tell you spent a lot of time getting to know this grinder and it's nuances. Way out of my price range but still very enjoyable to watch and learn from. Thanks.
Thank you so much for providing a great review on the MK II. I have a Linea Mini R on order and this seems like a very worthy contender for an espresso only pairing. One of the few reviews out there that have confirmed many of the issues with the original have been resolved.
Owner of an MK1 and later MK2 here. TBH I wasn’t sure what to expect when hearing the grinder was loaned from WW, but this review is just spot on. Really appreciate that honest review. My companion grinder is an EK43 with brew burrs, but occasionally I am using the key to brew. Not a solution to switch between espresso and filter on a daily base due to workflow, but I find the result pleasing showing a different representation of a coffee. Keep it up!
Have been eyeing a conical for a while to supplement my P64 and your review did it for me. Thanks for sharing this. Update: Received it already (super fast shipping) and already pulling some of the best shots I’ve ever had. I was getting very inconsistent results with my P64 using HU burrs and just was not able to pull shots to my liking after months of trial and error. Love this grinder already, looking forward to living with it for a long time.
Great review! I think Key doesn’t get much love since it came out, so well done updating the current state of it. My key MK1 didn’t really have the aforementioned issues past the bean stalling. Once I added the slow feeder and learned to wait and let the torque take control I can now grind even the lightest of lights. That said my Kafatek MC5 pulls better tasting shots consistently at shorter ratios 1:1-1:2. I found the key shines at 1:3-> 1:9 allongé’s.
Thank you for such a practical review. You are so right about people visiting the Weber Workshop website many times before deciding to buy. I’ve lost count of the number of times I’ve done that. In your review, you have addressed most of my concerns, so I think I’ll now go ahead and order one. I currently use a Malkönig X54 to feed my Linea Mini Nordic Edition. The Malkönig is nice, but I really want a single dose grinder and a bit of an upgrade. The fact that the Key looks so beautiful and is so compact is a bonus. Thank you again for a great review, I really appreciate it.
I was in between the key and the philos with the 200 Footprint and looks of the Key are just wow. Heard many, many complaints of the abysmal customer support for not so perfect units, and actually hardly any reviews of the mk2. I wrote to them concerning a the shipping costs and got no answer at all. I finally opted for the philos, and I am impressed so far. But seeing the Key will always be a pleasure. Thanks for covering it in your smooth and laid back style. Best wishes
Great review thanks. Not sure I have seen any other review of the MK2…. Nice to hear all MK1 issues seem to be resolved especially since I should be receiving mine in 2 weeks! 😁
Great video! I've been looking for this review for a long time. I guess folks are either not willing to give the Key 2 a chance, or are a little hesitant to talk about it given all the controversies with the first version. You did a fantastic job. Thank you!
Really good and comprehensive review! I was looking at the original Key for quite awhile and worrying about the alignment issues due to the floating burr design, when I saw the ML2 coming with the secondary support I made the purchase and really happy with the results. But recently released the lid which I don’t have with my purchase is kind of annoying. My favorite way to use it is to use the magic wiper, and no RDT with the weber been cellar, that tube is perfect just pour in, and because of the fully enclosed grinding method, there will me no mess. And since no RDT, the been feeder works like magic.
Another great review, thank you. I just received a Zerno and the Key Mk2 came out in between my pre order of the Zerno and taking delivery (a 6 month window!). If I had it to do over again, I think I go for the Key. The rounded, full body flavor is what a tend to prefer. I recently got into roasting my own beans with a Nucleus Link sample roaster and with the small roast batches I am finding it really challenging to dial in the Zerno before I’ve chewed through all the beans!
Love the review! Was just wondering if getting a P64 or a Key Mk2 would be a better option now. I really like the taste/texture of conicals from my Lagom Casa.
Great Job again! Love your video! Love how you call people just look at them for a long time ... Been having a Niche Zero and Timemore 78S .. and I can't stop going back at the weber.. Maybe I'll pull the trigger at one point .. but lately I'm drinking mostly Milk based espresso so it seems like an overkill lol
Thank you for the review. I own and have used this grinder since August, and I agree that it is “quirky.” Sure, it has a lot of potential, but if you have to use the dial “just so”; you have to shake the tumbler “just so”; you have to RDT “just so.” It’s a little exhausting for everyday use. I added a Mahlkonig E65S GBW to my bar and prefer that workflow much more. Now, the Key is used only for one-off cups in which I want to try a new coffee or do a pour over.
Thanks for sharing this video with us today... Your video has really made me want to delve deeper into seriously considering the purchase of this grinder. I do need to make up my mind on color (black vs white) first. I currently own a black Niche Zero, but I'm leaning toward moving to white? I'm also thinking about upgrading my espresso machine as well. I'm currently using a Quick Mill E61 type dual boiler with rotary pump at present. Both of these higher end items will be costly so I'm not rushing my decisions at this point. Plus, I've even considered getting a flat burr grinder as well... yep, I'm deep down that little rabbit hole for sure 🙂 Thanks again
Thank you! My advice, give this decision a lot of time. Once you get into this price tier you are dealing with big dollar amounts and the taste does vary widely. The Niche Zero is (still) a super solid choice and one of the best value grinders out there for traditional style espresso.
Thanks for this review! Not that I'm even considering a grinder in this tier, but I would expect fewer compromises at the price point. I could have a Philos with multiple burr sets plus a Timemore 078 for filter...
I have the MK1 Key but wish I had the MK2 since the it fixes most of the negatives of the original. Wont complain too much since mine works well enough. I did a mild alignment, added the bean feeder to slow down ingest paired with keeping the rpm around 70 to prevent any jamming on hard beans. Removed the wiper and adding a lid for the magic tumbler yields good consistent results.
Thank you for the review and thanks to WW for loaning it to you to get a Mk2 review out there. After the initial rush of Mk1 reviews when those orders were received it's been pretty quiet out there, so it's good to see that this update has addressed several of those original issues. Edit: It doesn't say the lid is included, but when you add the grinder to the cart it adds the lid for free as a separate item. I have a P64 and a Sette and am considering replacing the Sette. I was initially set on the Casa but decided to wait for reviews and maybe the larger burrs while also not ruling out other options. As part of the spousal approval process I showed my wife photos of grinders that I would consider buying. Based on appearance the Casa and Key were the two winners. Femobook, Aries and MC6 were deemed unattractive and I kinda agree. Obviously the Casa and Key are on two completely different levels. While WW have fixed the issues with their original design, my concerns would be with the customer service if there were any problems. Any company can have good service when looking to get a sale, but how they handle things going wrong is what's important. The bad experiences are going to get put out there and shared more, so the perception is probably skewed by that. However, I haven't seen too many stories about them going out of their way to provide a level of service that would match their premium prices. My P64 just stopped working and Option-O were very quick to respond and review a video to troubleshoot. My grinder is out of warranty, but they have only asked me to pay the shipping fee for the replacement parts. So it's unfortunate that it died, but so far I'm happy that they have lived up to their good reputation (I just paid the invoice, so they haven't had change to ship anything yet)
Thanks for another clear and deep review. I was thinking about this one but I had my doubts about the workflow that you confirmed. Also I tried the Allsense which is great but I will go SD. Are you planing to review the Orbit? What do you think? I saw all the reviews and I think it is great. Testing it now. Thanks and please keep going!
Thank you so much! I have had several requests for an orbit review - it’s on the list. Thankfully both the shots and the overall experience of the key make the workflow quirks palatable - you do come around to it and it’s not been a barrier for use for us and it ranks extremely highly overall in our house. But, they are there. If this is a top factor it’s worth considering for sure.
Thanks. I will wait for the review of the Orbit and you are right, Key II has many excellent points and no grinder is perfect 100%. Thanks for coming back. Have a great weekend!
To date, there hasn't been a single review of MK2 and I don't understand that, because it has managed to eliminate all the problems of the MK 1 and you have a really good grinder that offers a lot of possibilities and can make a lot of people happy!
Great review I have been dying to see someone review the mk2. Sounds like the grinder for me after watching your video. Any chance you are going to review the La Marzocco Mini in the background there? I was trying to find it on your channel but could not.
Amazing! And absolutely! Especially with larger value items I try to give them a lot of time with extended real world use before reviewing - this one is coming soon!
Mazzer burr is really well made. I am sure this grinder and EG-2 can give you very high quality pour over coffee. You should have EG-2 review next time.
Very informative review! How would you compare this grinder against the Mx. Cool Aries, that you had reviewed some months ago? Also, still on the conical grinders front, it would be interesting to see how top-tier espresso hand grinders (e.g., 1zpresso J-Ultra, Kinu M47), stack against them.
Dude, that overview, thanks. I've been having a hard time finding the right grinder for me. Thus far, I've found that flats haven't been for me. I know it is said that burr type matters less than is often stated but that hasn't been my experience so far. I like a grinder that produces a good number of fines as I like those slow, thicky, syrupy shots that are ultra body forward. I tend to like specialty coffee on the darkest end of the spectrum, which really works out to be medium-dark (I've yet to find a specialty coffee that is really a "dark roast", which is okay by me). But I also like more traditional blends, such as Saka that can have up to 60% robusta and I do not want a lot of clarity from such a coffee. People don't tend to talk about grinders from a perspective that would benefit my tastes, which I get but still...Anyway, the point is that you made some things clear that others haven't always done. I think that this one isn't for me as I leans closer to those profiles that I don't prefer. So far, the Sette 270 has given me the best shots for my taste but everything about how it looks, sounds and functions is awful, lol. Outside of the Niche I have yet to find a possible replacement. Do you have any suggestions? Thanks for the videos as always! They are always detailed but this one in particular was crazy!
I've had a Kickstarter ww key and thankfully mine has been good even with light roast. I've never had it fully stall (have a 40 min review). It was a scary review to do at the time because there was a lot of negative reviews or speculations on it and I'm not a pro coffee person but then other reviews like Hoffman came out and it was favorable. The mark 2 has a some improvements and I want a lid to shake the magic tumbler but enough to upgrade and spend that $$
Your review on the MK1 made me feel ok to buy a second hand one. Was definitely an adjustment from my sculptor 078 which I could do anything with pretty well. Sadly mine does stall with light roast. I got the bean feeder and lid, definitely added a lot on shipping, but I'd say both really worth it. Have settled to using highest rpm and just doing espresso with it, but and really loving it for that and a zp6 for pour over. But the grinder has shifted me back to espresso after being pour over focused for a year. Anyway, thanks both for the reviews!
great review 👏. the shot time difference between 30rpm and 150rpm is very interesting, does it means in this grinder the 30rpm is actually create more fines than 150rpm?
Great video. I wonder if the faster shots at higher rpm was more boulders. If you were shaking fines probably were less. If you didn’t shake I bet your shot times would increase at higher rpm settings
The Baby T is still here! Currently getting a full service:) I did think about comparing against the Aries and Monolith. Unfortunately I didn’t have either on hand to shoot out directly (the aries was a loaner as well). I would need to put them side by side for a proper taste comparison. Although they’re in a similar overall zone it’s been about a year since I’ve brewed on aries. I will say fidelity on aries is lacking a little for me on espresso in comparison to the key (I think 35 Microns vs 5 per step?) but it’s also it’s in a totally different price range - I think the most affordable 83mm single dose by a big stretch. Side note, I’m not sure who manufactures the aries burr but it is not a Mazzer.
i got a rok grinder and loved it for pourover. I also started experimenting with blind shaking for pourover and i agree, the grounds looks more homogenized
Great Review! I am a Niche Zero owner and I do lever shots for espresso only drinks. But would like to get either the Key or the Lagom 64 or the Zerno for If you can only have one what is your pick please, or just keep the Niche. Thank You!
It’s such a hard pick because with flat burr grinders you also get into burr selection which has a HUGE impact. It’s all so taste and preference dependent. If possible I would suggest trying to find some owners of higher end flat burr grinders near you and ask if you can try some espresso compared to your zero. The key will come in between the zero and the flats. Less body and more clarity than the zero, slightly thicker, sweeter and more blended than a lot of the popular flats. And… the Niche is still a great grinder for the price for espresso!
Great video, Justin. Only found out you were at the Taipei Coffee Expo last year after the fact. Hope I can get a picture in if you decide to visit again this year ^_^
Thank you! I LOVED my time in Taipei. It was so short but it was incredible. It was actually just before the expo, on year I hope to make that expo! The coffee scene in Taipei is incredible!
@@DaddyGotCoffee pretty much all the issues you mentioned about it. I have an mkI and yeah don’t want to go down the road of regret again on it until there’s nothing to complain about. For example ease of bean loading and retention is just a minor geometry issue they could easily fix.
I do not own a niche zero but I feel like the quality of espresso it makes is the best value for quality. KM2 looks amazing and I’m sure makes great espresso but it feels like major diminishing returns from what you can get from niche at its price point, IMO.
By shaking the ground I don't think it homogenize the grounds. As if you put sand marbles and bigger stones in a jar and shaked it around the smaller the particle the lower it would sit.
My brain had me convinced that lower rpm creates less fines. In my experience lately with the grinders that I own, it appears slow feeding at higher rpm creates the least amount of fines
Yeah I don’t totally know what is happening. It’s almost like the PSD peak shifts coarser at higher rpm and finer at low rpm?? When dialing in at the same grind setting at both low and high rpm, I still find higher body and more blended flavor? I don’t have a laser analyzer to know for sure but I did JUST get a DiFluid omni last night so I’m gonna have a look with that. One day I’ll have to tools to know for sure!
I have a version 1, and I kept hearing like the burrs hit each other/weird sounds on the gears when they rotate.. it’s such a horrible product Weber didn’t bother helping me with it when I emailed them years ago..
It really does and feels like no compromises were made in that way. I always say that gear spends more time on your counter doing nothing for you to look at than it does grinding or making coffee. It should look good and this is one of the best looking grinders out there imo.
After going through the full video review now, as an owner of a Niche Zero, it doesn’t seem this would add anything to my coffee bar. Maybe some upside in some situations, but more workflow hassle at 3 times the cost. I don’t think this is a win from WW.
The Zero offers wild value for dollar in the standard espresso arena, no arguments there. Still a fantastic grinder. The Key is definitely a different tier of build, totally different budget, bit of a different taste profile with more flexibility, and definitely with some compromises in order to realize the other factors. Weber makes their design decisions without apology and that’s another reason takes around their products can be a little polar. But, you’re right - the Zero is awesome.
@@DaddyGotCoffee yes I should be more generous. Build quality, appearance, and space (minimal) are off the charts with this product. Very high class. Just may not be the right answer for my next move. But the WW EG1 (I think that’s the big dog) may be.
aha so in this video I am going to be told that all the reasons my Niche Zero "suck" are actually and quite coincidentally the reasons why this Weber is great -- the reason being that I only paid $500 bucks as opposed to $2200, got it 😂 I will keep saving my pennies til I can get a Zerno thanks
hehe I know it is, I was being needlessly sardonic, sorry -- but I do crave an eventual change to a flat burr grinder -- if only because I do want to mix in regular pour over at home and not just do shots and lattes every day -- and the Niche isn't so good at that, and I'd gladly trade the unctuousness of having less uniform particle distribution, for a little more clarity; especially because I've got a piqued interest in natural process coffee (for espresso too!) and I feel like my Niche doesn't do it justice... and at least for these reasons it does sound like this Weber would just be a bit more of the same, albeit in a very refined, very beautiful package. @@DaddyGotCoffee
I went in with eyes open on this one especially given the reported issues of the MkI. I tested this unit pretty exhaustively to see if they had been resolved or not. According to both my experience and basically everything I can find online, the issues from the MkI have been resolved in the MkII, aside from the workflow items I pointed out which are a tradeoff of the design. As to the customer service, I recognize the uniqueness of my position here, that being said my only experience with any of their team has been positive. Anyone who has had a personal negative experience with their customer support team I would welcome to comment, likewise for those who have had a positive experience. As for the Kafatek, yeah I would love to review that for sure.
@@DaddyGotCoffee Not gonna lie, this and the review does sound pretty promising. I just find the thing that happened with sprometheus very off-putting...
@@brmbltbr4the quality is not always there and if you question it you get told to take a hike. Many owners have issues but choose to keep quiet and sell them on
Something that I watch most coffee creators do is to use a little spouted ceramic dosing cup that doesn’t let you view the beans properly. This is a trend that needs to go away, everyone buys them because they see everyone else using them. I just got into coffee myself but was still able to recognize this is an inferior system. Laying all the beans flat allows you to easily spot any quakers or small stones that may have found their way into even high end coffee. This also allows you to evenly spray the beans so that you don’t have wet beans on top and dry ones underneath resulting in no need to shake them. This and WDT/Leveling instead of shaker cups appear to me to be the two trends that content creators are still pushing that is holding back people’s coffee experience.
What? You've got a Zerno Z1 also. Which grinder is better? The Weber Key Mk2 vs. Zerno Z1? _That is the question._ Don't dodge it, either. It's not a question of flat vs. conical. You can only keep one. Which one?
Hahahaha fun question! Tbh though, it’s so personal and taste dependent that I would be hesitant to give an answer lest people take it and run and end up with something counter to their taste. It also depends on which burrs are in the Z1, I have not tried every option yet. My take: dosing into the grinder, I like the zerno. Puck prep workflow, I love the shaking of the key, and I’m going to be trying to find the right shaker to implement on the zerno. No WDT is dreamy. Aesthetics, I would lean to the key although both are beautiful - they wouldn’t have stuck on my bar for so long if not! Espresso only taste, man the HUs are so good, I didn’t think anything would have a shot at them. But, some coffees the key has absolutely delivered a better, if more blended shot. Mixed espresso/filter use - I would actually take the Key over the zerno with HUs. MPs on the zerno I can enjoy but wouldn’t take as my only option. I would like to try the CV2s on the Z1. I will say after doing this review there is big appeal to having both a conical and flat on bar at the same time. Genuinely different strengths, weaknesses and taste profiles make them incredibly complimentary.
@@DaddyGotCoffee Oh no! 🤣 You didn't answer the question though. Most people don't have the money nor want to have two grinders on the bar. You didn't choose one. You had an internal contest in your brain. If this were Squid Games, you'd be dead... 🤣
@@davidhunternyc1 hahahaha, this probably won’t satisfy you either, but if you really put me in this situation I would probably save up more money and take my chances with an EG1. Both of these grinders leave some compromises on the table that would hold me back from choosing them as a do-it-all-for-espresso-and-filter-and-you-can’t-have-any-other-grinders grinder to be comfortable with this amount of spend. I have not found an all-rounder in 64mm that doesn’t still leave me wanting in some area, assuming a single burr set (haven’t tried CV2s). Final answer. Which would YOU choose given the same situation?
@@DaddyGotCoffee Ooooo... _SNAP!_ Got me on this one. Yes, you made a decision but getting an answer was like trying to squeeze blood from a turnip. Which would I choose? Between the two, I would choose the Zerno Z1. I prioritize simplicity and ergonomic efficiency over all else... but... but... that's not a fair question! I don't have either, hence why I watch your channel. You're the expert here, not me. My decision is a fool's game, choosing something I've never used before and know nothing about. I use a Kafatek MC4. It too has its compromises. I hate to list them here because I love the owner of Kafatek so much, Denis Basaric. Sometimes I think about "downgrading" though. Yes, that's right. The Kafatek is too much of machine for me. I used to roast my own coffee. Light roasted. Hints of grass, plums, and honeysuckle. Blah, blah, blah, blah. I don't care anymore. I want coffee to taste like coffee. If anything a medium to dark roasted profile, like caramel, chocolate, hazelnut... and coffee... is my preference. Give me a simple cappuccino and call it a day. I hate too grind settings that travel. Going from espresso to French Press grinds is ridiculous. Like you said, there's not one perfect coffee grinder. All of them, no matter the price, has compromises. I'm surprised, however, that in 2024, there isn't a grinder that reduces the compromises to a bare minimum. With espresso machines, there are a few that exist at many different price points, built with the least amount of compromises possible. Stay awesome !!!
Conical Burr grinders are the opposite to Flat Burr when it comes to RPM.. it is not unique to Webber. Faster RPM in a conocal burr grinder means faster shot
Really appreciate you taking months to use this before reviewing to get a full picture of how it can perform. ❤
Thank you 🥰 Wherever possible I try and work a few months out, especially with bigger ticket items. Some stuff only surfaces with extended real-world use
@@DaddyGotCoffeeplease continue, I think it’s overlooked how important this is. I genuinely prefer your reviews and coffee chronicler because of this reason
Very informative review. And can tell you spent a lot of time getting to know this grinder and it's nuances. Way out of my price range but still very enjoyable to watch and learn from. Thanks.
Thank you so much! Glad you enjoyed!
Thank you so much for providing a great review on the MK II. I have a Linea Mini R on order and this seems like a very worthy contender for an espresso only pairing. One of the few reviews out there that have confirmed many of the issues with the original have been resolved.
You’re welcome! I was a little nervous with some of the things I had read. The MkII delivers!
Owner of an MK1 and later MK2 here. TBH I wasn’t sure what to expect when hearing the grinder was loaned from WW, but this review is just spot on. Really appreciate that honest review. My companion grinder is an EK43 with brew burrs, but occasionally I am using the key to brew. Not a solution to switch between espresso and filter on a daily base due to workflow, but I find the result pleasing showing a different representation of a coffee. Keep it up!
Have been eyeing a conical for a while to supplement my P64 and your review did it for me. Thanks for sharing this.
Update:
Received it already (super fast shipping) and already pulling some of the best shots I’ve ever had.
I was getting very inconsistent results with my P64 using HU burrs and just was not able to pull shots to my liking after months of trial and error.
Love this grinder already, looking forward to living with it for a long time.
Great review! I think Key doesn’t get much love since it came out, so well done updating the current state of it. My key MK1 didn’t really have the aforementioned issues past the bean stalling. Once I added the slow feeder and learned to wait and let the torque take control I can now grind even the lightest of lights.
That said my Kafatek MC5 pulls better tasting shots consistently at shorter ratios 1:1-1:2. I found the key shines at 1:3-> 1:9 allongé’s.
I would love to review the kafatek. I’m often in the 1:2.5 zone. Will have to try longer!
What u mean by slow feeder? Is there any upgrade available for mk1? I mostly drink medium light beans.
Thank you for such a practical review. You are so right about people visiting the Weber Workshop website many times before deciding to buy. I’ve lost count of the number of times I’ve done that. In your review, you have addressed most of my concerns, so I think I’ll now go ahead and order one. I currently use a Malkönig X54 to feed my Linea Mini Nordic Edition. The Malkönig is nice, but I really want a single dose grinder and a bit of an upgrade. The fact that the Key looks so beautiful and is so compact is a bonus. Thank you again for a great review, I really appreciate it.
I was in between the key and the philos with the 200
Footprint and looks of the Key are just wow.
Heard many, many complaints of the abysmal customer support for not so perfect units, and actually hardly any reviews of the mk2. I wrote to them concerning a the shipping costs and got no answer at all.
I finally opted for the philos, and I am impressed so far. But seeing the Key will always be a pleasure.
Thanks for covering it in your smooth and laid back style.
Best wishes
Great review thanks. Not sure I have seen any other review of the MK2…. Nice to hear all MK1 issues seem to be resolved especially since I should be receiving mine in 2 weeks! 😁
My take, you’ll love it!
Great video! I've been looking for this review for a long time. I guess folks are either not willing to give the Key 2 a chance, or are a little hesitant to talk about it given all the controversies with the first version. You did a fantastic job. Thank you!
You’re welcome!!
Really good and comprehensive review! I was looking at the original Key for quite awhile and worrying about the alignment issues due to the floating burr design, when I saw the ML2 coming with the secondary support I made the purchase and really happy with the results. But recently released the lid which I don’t have with my purchase is kind of annoying. My favorite way to use it is to use the magic wiper, and no RDT with the weber been cellar, that tube is perfect just pour in, and because of the fully enclosed grinding method, there will me no mess. And since no RDT, the been feeder works like magic.
Another great review, thank you. I just received a Zerno and the Key Mk2 came out in between my pre order of the Zerno and taking delivery (a 6 month window!). If I had it to do over again, I think I go for the Key. The rounded, full body flavor is what a tend to prefer. I recently got into roasting my own beans with a Nucleus Link sample roaster and with the small roast batches I am finding it really challenging to dial in the Zerno before I’ve chewed through all the beans!
Love the review! Was just wondering if getting a P64 or a Key Mk2 would be a better option now. I really like the taste/texture of conicals from my Lagom Casa.
Which coffee bean dosing cup are you using? Also the wood portafilter holder? Where is that from?
Thanks for the amazing video!
The pf holder is by Basics Machine Shop and available at Eight Ounce! The doser is by Ceramica Studio!
Great Job again! Love your video! Love how you call people just look at them for a long time ... Been having a Niche Zero and Timemore 78S .. and I can't stop going back at the weber.. Maybe I'll pull the trigger at one point .. but lately I'm drinking mostly Milk based espresso so it seems like an overkill lol
Thank you for the review. I own and have used this grinder since August, and I agree that it is “quirky.” Sure, it has a lot of potential, but if you have to use the dial “just so”; you have to shake the tumbler “just so”; you have to RDT “just so.” It’s a little exhausting for everyday use. I added a Mahlkonig E65S GBW to my bar and prefer that workflow much more. Now, the Key is used only for one-off cups in which I want to try a new coffee or do a pour over.
Thanks for sharing this video with us today... Your video has really made me want to delve deeper into seriously considering the purchase of this grinder. I do need to make up my mind on color (black vs white) first. I currently own a black Niche Zero, but I'm leaning toward moving to white? I'm also thinking about upgrading my espresso machine as well. I'm currently using a Quick Mill E61 type dual boiler with rotary pump at present. Both of these higher end items will be costly so I'm not rushing my decisions at this point. Plus, I've even considered getting a flat burr grinder as well... yep, I'm deep down that little rabbit hole for sure 🙂 Thanks again
Thank you! My advice, give this decision a lot of time. Once you get into this price tier you are dealing with big dollar amounts and the taste does vary widely. The Niche Zero is (still) a super solid choice and one of the best value grinders out there for traditional style espresso.
Thanks for this review!
Not that I'm even considering a grinder in this tier, but I would expect fewer compromises at the price point.
I could have a Philos with multiple burr sets plus a Timemore 078 for filter...
I have the MK1 Key but wish I had the MK2 since the it fixes most of the negatives of the original. Wont complain too much since mine works well enough. I did a mild alignment, added the bean feeder to slow down ingest paired with keeping the rpm around 70 to prevent any jamming on hard beans. Removed the wiper and adding a lid for the magic tumbler yields good consistent results.
Thank you for the review and thanks to WW for loaning it to you to get a Mk2 review out there. After the initial rush of Mk1 reviews when those orders were received it's been pretty quiet out there, so it's good to see that this update has addressed several of those original issues.
Edit: It doesn't say the lid is included, but when you add the grinder to the cart it adds the lid for free as a separate item.
I have a P64 and a Sette and am considering replacing the Sette. I was initially set on the Casa but decided to wait for reviews and maybe the larger burrs while also not ruling out other options. As part of the spousal approval process I showed my wife photos of grinders that I would consider buying. Based on appearance the Casa and Key were the two winners. Femobook, Aries and MC6 were deemed unattractive and I kinda agree.
Obviously the Casa and Key are on two completely different levels. While WW have fixed the issues with their original design, my concerns would be with the customer service if there were any problems. Any company can have good service when looking to get a sale, but how they handle things going wrong is what's important. The bad experiences are going to get put out there and shared more, so the perception is probably skewed by that. However, I haven't seen too many stories about them going out of their way to provide a level of service that would match their premium prices.
My P64 just stopped working and Option-O were very quick to respond and review a video to troubleshoot. My grinder is out of warranty, but they have only asked me to pay the shipping fee for the replacement parts. So it's unfortunate that it died, but so far I'm happy that they have lived up to their good reputation (I just paid the invoice, so they haven't had change to ship anything yet)
Would be fun to try one. Unfortunately I just missed Douglas while travelling in Japan. Would have been cool to see the actual Weber Workshop!
Thanks for another clear and deep review. I was thinking about this one but I had my doubts about the workflow that you confirmed. Also I tried the Allsense which is great but I will go SD. Are you planing to review the Orbit? What do you think? I saw all the reviews and I think it is great. Testing it now. Thanks and please keep going!
Thank you so much! I have had several requests for an orbit review - it’s on the list. Thankfully both the shots and the overall experience of the key make the workflow quirks palatable - you do come around to it and it’s not been a barrier for use for us and it ranks extremely highly overall in our house. But, they are there. If this is a top factor it’s worth considering for sure.
Thanks. I will wait for the review of the Orbit and you are right, Key II has many excellent points and no grinder is perfect 100%. Thanks for coming back. Have a great weekend!
To date, there hasn't been a single review of MK2 and I don't understand that, because it has managed to eliminate all the problems of the MK 1 and you have a really good grinder that offers a lot of possibilities and can make a lot of people happy!
Great review I have been dying to see someone review the mk2. Sounds like the grinder for me after watching your video. Any chance you are going to review the La Marzocco Mini in the background there? I was trying to find it on your channel but could not.
Amazing! And absolutely! Especially with larger value items I try to give them a lot of time with extended real world use before reviewing - this one is coming soon!
Espresso comparison this and the current Lagom Casa for medium-med. light roast?
Mazzer burr is really well made. I am sure this grinder and EG-2 can give you very high quality pour over coffee. You should have EG-2 review next time.
👀👀👀
This looks inspired by the Versalab M4 grinder which i have. The HG-1 which I also had also reminded me of the Versalab.
Would you consider a grinder comparison or recommendations video for immersion brews? I feel so left out as a 100% immersion guy.
I’ve got a long list but this is a great idea. I’ve got AP Premium and Bird reviews coming too
Very informative review! How would you compare this grinder against the Mx. Cool Aries, that you had reviewed some months ago? Also, still on the conical grinders front, it would be interesting to see how top-tier espresso hand grinders (e.g., 1zpresso J-Ultra, Kinu M47), stack against them.
Dude, that overview, thanks. I've been having a hard time finding the right grinder for me. Thus far, I've found that flats haven't been for me. I know it is said that burr type matters less than is often stated but that hasn't been my experience so far. I like a grinder that produces a good number of fines as I like those slow, thicky, syrupy shots that are ultra body forward. I tend to like specialty coffee on the darkest end of the spectrum, which really works out to be medium-dark (I've yet to find a specialty coffee that is really a "dark roast", which is okay by me). But I also like more traditional blends, such as Saka that can have up to 60% robusta and I do not want a lot of clarity from such a coffee. People don't tend to talk about grinders from a perspective that would benefit my tastes, which I get but still...Anyway, the point is that you made some things clear that others haven't always done.
I think that this one isn't for me as I leans closer to those profiles that I don't prefer. So far, the Sette 270 has given me the best shots for my taste but everything about how it looks, sounds and functions is awful, lol. Outside of the Niche I have yet to find a possible replacement. Do you have any suggestions?
Thanks for the videos as always! They are always detailed but this one in particular was crazy!
For stuff in this price range surely the WUG2 and the Monolith Conical have to be in your comparisons?
Once I get them they absolutely will be :)
I would love to see those as a comparison! Wug most tbh. Maybe also the heddone honne? Never seen anything in that but seems super spec for the price.
@@DaddyGotCoffee yes its time to get you an MC6 to test out
I've had a Kickstarter ww key and thankfully mine has been good even with light roast. I've never had it fully stall (have a 40 min review). It was a scary review to do at the time because there was a lot of negative reviews or speculations on it and I'm not a pro coffee person but then other reviews like Hoffman came out and it was favorable. The mark 2 has a some improvements and I want a lid to shake the magic tumbler but enough to upgrade and spend that $$
Take my word on this one, get that lid!! Totally worth it! Thank you for sharing this!
@@DaddyGotCoffee I just saw they sell the lid separately! but the shipping is probably going to be ridiculous >.< cheers!
Your review on the MK1 made me feel ok to buy a second hand one. Was definitely an adjustment from my sculptor 078 which I could do anything with pretty well. Sadly mine does stall with light roast. I got the bean feeder and lid, definitely added a lot on shipping, but I'd say both really worth it. Have settled to using highest rpm and just doing espresso with it, but and really loving it for that and a zp6 for pour over. But the grinder has shifted me back to espresso after being pour over focused for a year.
Anyway, thanks both for the reviews!
great review 👏. the shot time difference between 30rpm and 150rpm is very interesting, does it means in this grinder the 30rpm is actually create more fines than 150rpm?
From just a taste in the cup pov, for Italian style espressos, how would you compare this to the Fiorenzato All Ground Sense?
Great video. I wonder if the faster shots at higher rpm was more boulders. If you were shaking fines probably were less. If you didn’t shake I bet your shot times would increase at higher rpm settings
That’s a fun idea! I was indeed shaking across the board while running these tests. Will have to try this!
@@DaddyGotCoffee next you need to review the sg1 😂
@@Howie-bz5pe 🤣🪨☕️
What happened to the Baby-T? And why not compare it to the Mx Aries, since the burr is so similar?
The Baby T is still here! Currently getting a full service:) I did think about comparing against the Aries and Monolith. Unfortunately I didn’t have either on hand to shoot out directly (the aries was a loaner as well). I would need to put them side by side for a proper taste comparison. Although they’re in a similar overall zone it’s been about a year since I’ve brewed on aries. I will say fidelity on aries is lacking a little for me on espresso in comparison to the key (I think 35
Microns vs 5 per step?) but it’s also it’s in a totally different price range - I think the most affordable 83mm single dose by a big stretch. Side note, I’m not sure who manufactures the aries burr but it is not a Mazzer.
Great review very much appreciated. Also way out my budget and I am a Fellow Ode guy at my rate.
i got a rok grinder and loved it for pourover. I also started experimenting with blind shaking for pourover and i agree, the grounds looks more homogenized
Yesss! It was fun to dig out my Rok for these clips!
Great Review! I am a Niche Zero owner and I do lever shots for espresso only drinks. But would like to get either the Key or the Lagom 64 or the Zerno for If you can only have one what is your pick please, or just keep the Niche. Thank You!
It’s such a hard pick because with flat burr grinders you also get into burr selection which has a HUGE impact. It’s all so taste and preference dependent. If possible I would suggest trying to find some owners of higher end flat burr grinders near you and ask if you can try some espresso compared to your zero. The key will come in between the zero and the flats. Less body and more clarity than the zero, slightly thicker, sweeter and more blended than a lot of the popular flats. And… the Niche is still a great grinder for the price for espresso!
@@DaddyGotCoffee Thank you!!
How do you like your espresso machine? Have you done a review of it I can review? I enjoy your content buddy, keep up the good work.
I love it - def has its compromises but the experience and espresso is so good. Review is coming!
Don’t think I have ever heard the phrase: ‘cup of espresso’, until now 😂❤
I bought mine 4 months ago I love it
I can see why!
Great video, Justin. Only found out you were at the Taipei Coffee Expo last year after the fact. Hope I can get a picture in if you decide to visit again this year ^_^
Thank you! I LOVED my time in Taipei. It was so short but it was incredible. It was actually just before the expo, on year I hope to make that expo! The coffee scene in Taipei is incredible!
@@DaddyGotCoffee Glad you enjoyed your time in Taipei. Hope you get to visit here again soon!
@@lilteyangthank you! Me too!
Waiting for mkIII
Out of curiosity, what changes are you hoping for??
@@DaddyGotCoffee pretty much all the issues you mentioned about it. I have an mkI and yeah don’t want to go down the road of regret again on it until there’s nothing to complain about. For example ease of bean loading and retention is just a minor geometry issue they could easily fix.
I do not own a niche zero but I feel like the quality of espresso it makes is the best value for quality. KM2 looks amazing and I’m sure makes great espresso but it feels like major diminishing returns from what you can get from niche at its price point, IMO.
It’s really hard to beat the Niche for value and standard espresso. Such a solid grinder
By shaking the ground I don't think it homogenize the grounds. As if you put sand marbles and bigger stones in a jar and shaked it around the smaller the particle the lower it would sit.
Excellent video...
Thank you!
My brain had me convinced that lower rpm creates less fines. In my experience lately with the grinders that I own, it appears slow feeding at higher rpm creates the least amount of fines
Yeah I don’t totally know what is happening. It’s almost like the PSD peak shifts coarser at higher rpm and finer at low rpm?? When dialing in at the same grind setting at both low and high rpm, I still find higher body and more blended flavor? I don’t have a laser analyzer to know for sure but I did JUST get a DiFluid omni last night so I’m gonna have a look with that. One day I’ll have to tools to know for sure!
I have a version 1, and I kept hearing like the burrs hit each other/weird sounds on the gears when they rotate.. it’s such a horrible product Weber didn’t bother helping me with it when I emailed them years ago..
It 100% looks as cool as anything though
It really does and feels like no compromises were made in that way. I always say that gear spends more time on your counter doing nothing for you to look at than it does grinding or making coffee. It should look good and this is one of the best looking grinders out there imo.
I think the HG2 Mk2 is a better buy than the key but this is a nice unit too.
After going through the full video review now, as an owner of a Niche Zero, it doesn’t seem this would add anything to my coffee bar. Maybe some upside in some situations, but more workflow hassle at 3 times the cost. I don’t think this is a win from WW.
The Zero offers wild value for dollar in the standard espresso arena, no arguments there. Still a fantastic grinder. The Key is definitely a different tier of build, totally different budget, bit of a different taste profile with more flexibility, and definitely with some compromises in order to realize the other factors. Weber makes their design decisions without apology and that’s another reason takes around their products can be a little polar. But, you’re right - the Zero is awesome.
@@DaddyGotCoffee yes I should be more generous. Build quality, appearance, and space (minimal) are off the charts with this product. Very high class. Just may not be the right answer for my next move. But the WW EG1 (I think that’s the big dog) may be.
@@juice7546👀👀👀👀😮💨😮💨😮💨
For 2k. It better grind it, pull a shot, and bring it to you with a smile!
aha so in this video I am going to be told that all the reasons my Niche Zero "suck" are actually and quite coincidentally the reasons why this Weber is great -- the reason being that I only paid $500 bucks as opposed to $2200, got it 😂
I will keep saving my pennies til I can get a Zerno thanks
Niche Zero is an absolutely fantastic grinder for traditional espresso and anyone who says otherwise is 🤪
hehe I know it is, I was being needlessly sardonic, sorry -- but I do crave an eventual change to a flat burr grinder -- if only because I do want to mix in regular pour over at home and not just do shots and lattes every day -- and the Niche isn't so good at that, and I'd gladly trade the unctuousness of having less uniform particle distribution, for a little more clarity; especially because I've got a piqued interest in natural process coffee (for espresso too!) and I feel like my Niche doesn't do it justice... and at least for these reasons it does sound like this Weber would just be a bit more of the same, albeit in a very refined, very beautiful package. @@DaddyGotCoffee
There is the Kafatek conical and the key has some bad rep... I wouldn't buy something this expensive, if the customer support is so bad.
I went in with eyes open on this one especially given the reported issues of the MkI. I tested this unit pretty exhaustively to see if they had been resolved or not. According to both my experience and basically everything I can find online, the issues from the MkI have been resolved in the MkII, aside from the workflow items I pointed out which are a tradeoff of the design. As to the customer service, I recognize the uniqueness of my position here, that being said my only experience with any of their team has been positive. Anyone who has had a personal negative experience with their customer support team I would welcome to comment, likewise for those who have had a positive experience.
As for the Kafatek, yeah I would love to review that for sure.
@@DaddyGotCoffee Not gonna lie, this and the review does sound pretty promising. I just find the thing that happened with sprometheus very off-putting...
Kafatek customer service isn’t without horror stories (of which I was one)
@@robertgregorywest What happened? Or can I read somewhere?
@@brmbltbr4the quality is not always there and if you question it you get told to take a hike. Many owners have issues but choose to keep quiet and sell them on
Something that I watch most coffee creators do is to use a little spouted ceramic dosing cup that doesn’t let you view the beans properly. This is a trend that needs to go away, everyone buys them because they see everyone else using them. I just got into coffee myself but was still able to recognize this is an inferior system. Laying all the beans flat allows you to easily spot any quakers or small stones that may have found their way into even high end coffee. This also allows you to evenly spray the beans so that you don’t have wet beans on top and dry ones underneath resulting in no need to shake them. This and WDT/Leveling instead of shaker cups appear to me to be the two trends that content creators are still pushing that is holding back people’s coffee experience.
Where is your Espresso Drinking Face?? I thought that was your trademark?
What? You've got a Zerno Z1 also. Which grinder is better? The Weber Key Mk2 vs. Zerno Z1? _That is the question._ Don't dodge it, either. It's not a question of flat vs. conical. You can only keep one. Which one?
Hahahaha fun question! Tbh though, it’s so personal and taste dependent that I would be hesitant to give an answer lest people take it and run and end up with something counter to their taste. It also depends on which burrs are in the Z1, I have not tried every option yet.
My take: dosing into the grinder, I like the zerno. Puck prep workflow, I love the shaking of the key, and I’m going to be trying to find the right shaker to implement on the zerno. No WDT is dreamy. Aesthetics, I would lean to the key although both are beautiful - they wouldn’t have stuck on my bar for so long if not! Espresso only taste, man the HUs are so good, I didn’t think anything would have a shot at them. But, some coffees the key has absolutely delivered a better, if more blended shot. Mixed espresso/filter use - I would actually take the Key over the zerno with HUs. MPs on the zerno I can enjoy but wouldn’t take as my only option. I would like to try the CV2s on the Z1. I will say after doing this review there is big appeal to having both a conical and flat on bar at the same time. Genuinely different strengths, weaknesses and taste profiles make them incredibly complimentary.
@@DaddyGotCoffee Oh no! 🤣 You didn't answer the question though. Most people don't have the money nor want to have two grinders on the bar. You didn't choose one. You had an internal contest in your brain. If this were Squid Games, you'd be dead... 🤣
@@davidhunternyc1 hahahaha, this probably won’t satisfy you either, but if you really put me in this situation I would probably save up more money and take my chances with an EG1. Both of these grinders leave some compromises on the table that would hold me back from choosing them as a do-it-all-for-espresso-and-filter-and-you-can’t-have-any-other-grinders grinder to be comfortable with this amount of spend. I have not found an all-rounder in 64mm that doesn’t still leave me wanting in some area, assuming a single burr set (haven’t tried CV2s). Final answer. Which would YOU choose given the same situation?
@@DaddyGotCoffee Ooooo... _SNAP!_ Got me on this one. Yes, you made a decision but getting an answer was like trying to squeeze blood from a turnip. Which would I choose? Between the two, I would choose the Zerno Z1. I prioritize simplicity and ergonomic efficiency over all else... but... but... that's not a fair question! I don't have either, hence why I watch your channel. You're the expert here, not me. My decision is a fool's game, choosing something I've never used before and know nothing about. I use a Kafatek MC4. It too has its compromises. I hate to list them here because I love the owner of Kafatek so much, Denis Basaric. Sometimes I think about "downgrading" though. Yes, that's right. The Kafatek is too much of machine for me. I used to roast my own coffee. Light roasted. Hints of grass, plums, and honeysuckle. Blah, blah, blah, blah. I don't care anymore. I want coffee to taste like coffee. If anything a medium to dark roasted profile, like caramel, chocolate, hazelnut... and coffee... is my preference. Give me a simple cappuccino and call it a day. I hate too grind settings that travel. Going from espresso to French Press grinds is ridiculous. Like you said, there's not one perfect coffee grinder. All of them, no matter the price, has compromises. I'm surprised, however, that in 2024, there isn't a grinder that reduces the compromises to a bare minimum. With espresso machines, there are a few that exist at many different price points, built with the least amount of compromises possible. Stay awesome !!!
@@davidhunternyc1why not Wug2 and have ‘both’ the Mazzer 83 as well as the SSP 80mm ULF or something?
Based on the customer service alone, do not buy from them. Avoid at all costs.
Conical Burr grinders are the opposite to Flat Burr when it comes to RPM.. it is not unique to Webber. Faster RPM in a conocal burr grinder means faster shot
I haven’t used a ton of variable speed conicals, but the Aries presented this way as well for me.
@@DaddyGotCoffeeyeah, if get the chance to review the Varia VS6 with conicals, you’ll see it as well :-)
Would love to review it!
Your kitchen is not diverse enough