Genspect Founder Stella O'Malley & The Gay of the Year, Menno Kuijper | Spectrum Street Epistemology
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- Опубліковано 16 лип 2024
- Peter presents Stella O'Malley and Menno Kuijper with various claims about the current transgender movement. Stella, a psychotherapist and author, and Menno, a video creator who is gay, both share a similar gender-critical viewpoint. Though, they disagree on some points, notably on whether the term "trans people" should even be used. This leads to a discussion on the importance of language, especially regarding trans issues. Finally, they discuss autogynephilia and consent.
Stella O’Malley is a psychotherapist, bestselling author, public speaker, and parent with extensive experience in counseling and psychotherapy. Her latest book, "When Kids Say They're Trans," offers a resource for parents who want their children to flourish, but do not believe that hasty medicalization is the best way to ensure long-term health and well-being. Stella is also the founder and Executive Director of Genspect, an international organization that advocates for a healthy approach to sex and gender.
Stella's website: www.stellaomalley.com/about-s...
Stella on X: / stellaomalley3
Other books: www.stellaomalley.com/whatyou...
Menno Kuijper has earned the prestigious award, “Gay of the Year”. He is a satirist and video creator whose content focuses on "a world overrun with gender woo" and how it undermines the rights and freedoms of women, girls, LGB people, and children.
Menno's UA-cam Channel: / @mrmenno
Menno's website: / about
Chapters:
0:00 Intro
0:40 Claims about trans issues
10:40 Claims about language use
21:55 Debrief & Discussion
25:50 Claims about autogynephilia
39:13 Claims about consent
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If you want another funny, more lighthearted SSE on similar topics, watch this one next: ua-cam.com/video/kNPlrosVQsQ/v-deo.htmlsi=5kCYzS18VO08Hw2G
Dear Mr. Peter I would love to see you come to the Midwest of America and do some of these if you could.
Peter, some people aren’t bothered by the cumbersome addition of syllables, like LGTBQ+. I don’t have a strong opinion about this, but wanted to point out that this isn’t a disqualifying condition.
All I have to do is look between my legs to know my sex has changed. Breeders and bleeders aren't transexual and posers don't speak for me. My boyfriends penis doesn't smell like poop
Peter, what's the music playing at the end? It's beautiful.
Thanks for having me, this was great fun! 😉
Congrats on being the Gayest Gay! Well deserved
You are wonderful !
Love you Menno!
Love you from across the pond. Keep up the sanity check. You’re a REAL ONE!
Love you Mr. Menno. ❤😊❤
Mr Menno - Thank Goodness for him - Gives me hope sane clear thinking people still exist.
Adore Mr Menno. You can always rely on Mr Menno to speak truth.
Menno is the rare combination of someone who truly gets it, and is capable of expressing himself at a high and precise level, in English, which is not even his native language! Heading over to his website to up my level of support!❤❤❤❤
Yeah, it's called being gay, lol
I didn't know English is not his first language! What's his native language? Dutch?
The "Be Kind" movement is at the heart of Stella's argument. It's literally saying that kindness is more important than reality.
Not refuting your point but made me remember some things I have heard.
I would argue that what she is actually doing is not kind. The "Be Kind" movement is actually the "Be Nice" movement. When I say something "Kind" I am doing it for you weather or not it causes you pain. When I say something "Nice" I am doing it for my benefit so you think I am a good person.
Nice
- Never want to rock the boat
- Most concerned with not upsetting someone
- Afraid to speak up when they witness unkind behavior
- Worried about being liked
Kind
- Wiling to make waves
- Most concerned with doing what is right
- Willing to speak up and take a stand
- Worried about being kind
Stella did an interview on the Triggernometry channel which better represents her view.
Yes, women are often understanding and kind to their detriment. We do not want to be mean or offensive, but it's gotten so far that we are now the backseat in womanhood. People like Kellie Jay Keen are the ones who will make change. This soft willowing nature is a part of the reason why women were not meant to be leaders in the churches in the olden days because they may lead with their heart rather than their head of law.
I think we should "Be Kind" to people who think they were born in the wrong body in the same way we should "Be Kind" to people who think they have a "personal relationship with Jesus" as was a common claim I was expected to validate growing up in the religious South and that many people with complete impatience for the concept of gender identity think we should fully indulge and never ridicule. Both claims are empirically dubious and ultimately meaningless but we can definitely draw a distinction between people having a right to believe things, having a right to "practice" their beliefs and, in some situations to not ridicule people for them vs the rest of us having to validate them.
I don't think she is saying kindness is "more important than reality." She still holds to the point that there is a biological male/female binary, which is anathema to some of the people who want want her to "be kind" by denying that. In other words, she still adheres to reality. But sometimes, like when you deal with some moron who claims they have a "personal relationship with Jesus" or whatever other ridiculous thing they believe, it is better for all involved to just smile and nod.
Thank you Menno for defending truth, common sense and women's rights! ❤❤❤
100 per cent agree. Would also to add thanks Menno for defending gays and lesbians and of course kids.
The same ‘common sense thinking’ that got Brianna Ghey murdered …
Stella… There is medical treatment. There is no medical transition. There are no “accurate” words for someone who has undergone medical treatment for gender identity reasons, because this is in itself undefined. What if a man has a boob job? What if a woman uses a binder, which is not medical intervention but can cause physical harm? You can’t define “medical transition” accurately for the purpose you’re talking about. This is why language is so important. The activists know it, and we have fallen into their trap. Part of their strategy is to try to conflate gender and sex in law. We have to resist this, and get much better at what language we use. We can’t be so woolly about words.
I know she understands this point as a professional. She knows that this is the reason we have and use medical jargon and medical records. That one word she insists on is so vague.
Was going to say the same thing. It's a marketing term
it's so well put, exactly
well its not even possible to transition. its fake, its not real. a man with an inverted penis and implants on oestrogen is not a woman. its not possible for any mammal to transition from one gender to another. we arent clownfish.
There’s medical intervention- it’s not treatment.
God, the more I watch, the more I love Menno. His strength and passion is fantastic - he’s right!
"Passing" just seems to mean, "being successful at deception".
It also means "not upsetting you so much at first contact, cause you immediately dont perceive the difference"...and in a public context that makes a lot of difference...
(ofc if the relation becomes more intimate than simply 2 ppl in a room you have to go to a whole different lvl of disclosure with the other person)
It is sometimes useful to police people's language - Yes, indeed. For example, it is a disgrace that the Cambridge English Dictionary has rewritten the definition of 'women' to include mentally ill men. This should be said out loud.
"woman" and "man" are biological, sexual, reproductive categories that one is born as, not can identify into.
The term "woman" is already taken.
Julie Bindel
True...and obviously what happened?
That when you try to debate some dude who holds those crazy views they dont even try to put up some kind of argument anymore...they just say: "well the dictionary sais so...see...I am right..." :DDDDD
I always think of the police when discussing the language around trans
If we say trans men are women then how do they describe and then identify who they are looking for whether a talking of a missing person or when in pursuit of a criminal in action?
If a man dressed as a woman who clearly looks like a man in a frock commits a crime and police are called in pursuit - do they describe a man in a dress or a woman wearing a dress and other features?
If articulating details about a missing person to the public- do they go by the details that are visually recognisable or the persons supposed internal gender?
It’s quite ridiculous to even have to ponder these things and down right dangerous in some cases
RIDICULOUS FROM THE GO! TRANSVESTITES HAVE ALWAYS EXISTED AND IN MOST CASES THE TRANSVESTITES WERE AND ARE GAY! WHY DOES SOCIETY EVEN CATER TO GRANTING ADDITIONAL RIGHTS FOR TRANS? THERE IS ALREADY ENOUGH LEGAL PROTECTION FOR THE TRANS INDIVIDUAL EXCEPT FOR CANONIZING THEIR STATUS SO THEY CAN BECOME ELIGIBLE FOR GOVERNMENT HEALTHCARE SERVICES AND HAVE MEDICATIONS/SURGERY FOR FREE AND PAID FOR BY THE TAX PAYERS!
Well thank goodness most of us don't need a dictionary to tell us what a woman is
We all love Menno, a talent & sweetheart.
Menno is a delight and quite articulate. Very likable.
I am pretty active in the gender critical community and I have yet to meet someone who believes everything an AGP does is a sexual act, but it seems pretty absurd to believe that the act of an AGP wearing women’s clothes isn’t intrinsically linked to their sexual fetish with womanhood.
So women wearing women's clothes is inherently sexual?
It's telling that you can't imagine people wearing clothing from other genders that isn't intrinsically fetishized. Women wearing women's clothing is intrinsically linked to their sexual fetish with womanhood? Or are you saying that you think women's clothing is intrinsically linked to their sexual fetish with womanhood? Or... Are you saying that people are intrinsically linked to their social fetish with womanhood regardless of what they are wearing? Do you fetishize womenhood? If that's the only thing you can imagine it's for, then I can't think of any other reason why you think that.
Thanks to my grandma buying me a terrible sweater that I hated how it looked and loved how it felt, I like to wear women's clothing. I got bullied because of the shirt, and people called me gay, even though it was a man's shirt. That taught me to care significantly less about what other people think about what I wear. Women's clothing has a lot more going on than men's clothing by ways of cuts and silhouettes, and it usually feels better on my skin. I can't find a pair of black lace sneakers or boots anywhere, but I found a pair of size 15 high heel black lace boots that I've worn out. I don't feel any more intrinsically fetishistic wearing women's clothing than when wearing men's clothing. I'm a cis-het man. I don't feel like a woman, and I'm not trying to pass as a woman. If you're saying that men dressing like women is for sexual gratification, you might be right sometimes. Probably much rarer than you'd think. I just wish that clothing wasn't gendered so we can all have more options. I think it's super dumb to think people's identities are restricted to their clothing.
To me this about finding the line of tolerance. Someone wearing every day women's clothes and minding their own business shouldn't adversely effect others and be quite possible within the bounds of liberal consensus.
This shifts as clothes become more overtly sexual and in the context of location.
It's not acceptable to impose one's own fetish upon the unwilling and use public exhibition to satisfy that fetish.
At the same time I think the idea of clothing being defined as strictly male or female is needlessly reductive and limiting.
In a typically wishy washy liberal fashion this all relies on mutual respect and co-operation.
@Dandy_Atheist Let's be real and honest. An AGP wearing women's clothing is attached to that person's fetish because their fetish is acting/dressing as a woman.
Not all men who wear women's clothes are AGP.
@@Dandy_Atheist Did you deliberately misrepresent @alciammonroe or do you genuinely not understand what was said?
Peter, Menno and Stella, thank you for doing this. It’s so good to see people who hold differing views being willing to discuss these respectfully and listen to each other. The GC movement has become quite divided of late. ❤️❤️❤️
The recent division seems to be between academics and journalists vs regular people with basic common sense that are fed up with lies.
No, it hasn't.
@@ncorp2668Yes, it's an attempt to split the Terfs, and it's not working.
@ncorp No, I was referring to division within. There’s been a schism that has deepened due to differing views around AGPs like Debbie Hayton.
KJK referred to people who feel that Debbie is on ‘our side’ as ‘gender-critical light’. I think Debbie has something to say that’s worth hearing and I find him likeable. I don’t think we should alienate people on the basis that we don’t agree with everything they say or do. That makes us part of the ‘cancel culture’. If their heart is in the right place and they share the same main objectives, why be vitriolic?
@@gilly5094 Yes, we are referring to the same division. I think there is room to acknowledge when anyone is correct on a thing, regardless of who they are and where they stand, but integrity is also important, and if someone considers themselves to be critical of ftshists going where they don't belong, then I would implore that person to research how/why such a ftsh has played out the way it has and how the crossing of boundaries is inherent to it.
Thank you Menno, so honest and clear
Menno is right. We need language as clear and concise possible in this.
specific language so we know what we have in front and stop the deceiving lies trap scam
Well, it's not CONCISE to say, "Men who larp as women" or "Men who think they are women", or "Men who have undergone medical interventions to take on the secondary sex characteristics of women." I'll give you clear, but CONCISE? No.
Thank you Mr Meno!! Voice of reason and objective reality.
Lovely to see you on here Menno!
Loved doing it! 😀
Regarding language to describe men who have medicalized themselves by chemical or surgical castration, we do have a word which more accurately describes them: "eunuchs". I agree with Menno. Using the term "trans" infers that a person can actually change sex when they factually cannot. I'm not aware of an existing comparable word for women who have surgically altered their sexual characteristics. De-feminized women?
Spayed, maybe? Lol!
Btw, sorry to be pedantic, but you need to replace the word "infers" with "implies", because inference is done by the recipient of the information. Also, a word (trans) can only imply, it can't infer. Only a person can infer. They receive info, and interpret it, by inferring ideas from what they hear.
I'm just obsessed with accuracy. Please, excuse me.
Female-to-male 'trans-sexuals' (FtM) - they are rare, but they do exist - call themselves 'TransMen'.
Yes, I was thinking castrated male. We do have the language, but people do not want to use it.
Yes, ‘eunuch’ is the word for men who are castrated. Castrated men who are pumped with oestrogen and have developed breasts are not women.
@@zeldagoblin Spayed? maybe not. lol! Female cats are spayed, males are neutered. We don't have a word to describe women whose sex organs have been removed because when a woman has a hysterectomy they don't necessarily remove ovaries.
Menno
I have never heard of Menno Kujiper before but I would like to say "Thank You" for your honesty and also for making some very valid points.
Glad you have discovered Mr Menno. He is a great parodist and singer! He has made quite a lot of U-tube videos.
He’s a very beautiful person, he cares deeply about women and children and the rights of same sex attracted people. I adore him ❤️
A few minutes in, and Menno is spot on.
Menno is brilliant and articulates so well how many of us feel about gender ideology and its harms. I’ll be generous and say I think Stella is not getting how important language is in legitimising a thing like “transition”. You cannot actually transition from one sex to another and using language that implies you can goes a long way to normalising something that really is harmful and does not need to be normalised.
So well said! At the press conference after the Lakewood shooting the police were trying to so carefully use correct pronouns for the assailant. I get so tired of people kow towing to the trans community.
I‘m so confused about Stella‘s behaviour. She is for sure intelligent enough to understand the simple and very obviously true point you just made here and many others in our circles have made.
What is the her motivation behind that?
I like Stella as a person and she does solid work, but I think she's actually suffering from what TRAs suffer from, which is an entrenchment in how their thinking has constructed their world. In her case, she has this organisation and the very many other organisations and people who will revolve around that organisation. For her to change her stance would be very hard and the world around her would have to change. I can't imagine she'll be able to make that shift, but we'll see.
@@Ciara-ASMRI think you’re probably right. It also seems to me that she lacks rigour with her own thinking.
@@GreenWhitePurple Yes, and now that I think of it, I detected also some defensiveness. With Mr. Menno and KJK, they very rarely seem to actually conceive of their own...personhood in the exchange. They pursue their goals and ideals above all else. Whereas when I note defensiveness in Stella, such as when she was talking about all the work that went into that Genspect conference (which is undoubtedly true that it was a tonne of work) and she even highlighted her own feelings on the matter, or rather, her own hurt feelings, it showed that she is centering herself somewhat. Not in any horrendous way; I do have a lot of compassion and respect for her. But that defensiveness just gives me pause.
Yay! So happy you have Mr Menno on!!!!
I love Mr Menno. I'm a fan 👏
Just saw the story about the 50 yr old AGP in Canada that identified as a 13 yr old girl so he could swim and change with young girls. SCREAMS DANGER and the adults in the room subjected their children to a MAP. I would be pulling my child out of that situation.
Don't call them map, they don't deserve any tidy moniker, call them exactly what they are and always have been
#savethechildren
That’s absurd!And a danger to young children.Why are things like this even allowed?
and the idiot mothers went along with it. They allowed it to happen
BRAVO Mr. Menno!
My man Menno out here speaking straight facts 💯. Stella needs to wake up and face the truth asap.
As Jordan Peterson reminds us, women are high on agreeableness.
@@saltburner2 Come on. There are so many women speaking the truth about trans. Menno is the only man who comes close to the level of clarity that WOMEN have brought to this morass.
Straight facts? How dare you
@@CrystalViolent there are many women telling the truth about trans, but there are also many women who support this madness. I know I've lost more female friends over this than male friends. On average women are more agreeable than men, that doesn't mean every woman is more agreeable than every man.
14:23 Here's a word meant to obfuscate reality: *microaggression* . People typically latch onto the "aggression" part to create a sense of something being harmful/threatening, but what about the "micro" part? A micrometer is 1×10^(-6) of a meter... a *million* times smaller. A microaggression is negligibly small compared to an actual act of aggression. If someone complains about microaggressions, they are - almost by definition - overreacting.
Mr. Menno 🙌💐
Menno!!! It's always great to see you!
Love to see menno on here!
Peter, here is an obvious point I think more people need to say out loud when discussing this stuff: Pronouns refer to sex not gender. Sex is almost always accurately observable, whereas gender is an invisible, subjective feeling, unknowable to others.
When the pronoun discussion comes up, I ask, Why do you believe pronouns refer to gender and not sex?
@@porgguy4962For some ppl. Pronouns become nuanced if a trans person completely looks like opposite sex and nobody know they're trans. Ex. A trans man is a female, but if I didn't know he was trans and he passed very well, it naturally make sense to use he/him.
@@cole5669 yep, a confounding variable.
Menno is such a king.
I love love love mr Menno.....he truly gets it ❤️
17:10 Peter, the best illustration of how crucial (to use Menno’s term) language is to this whole discussion… is right there in the word “gender” itself.
Up until the 70s, the word was only used in the field of linguistics.
Mr Menno is spot on about using the word Trans. The claim is that people have dysphoria, so we should call them Body Dysphoric. Body Dysphoric Man instead of Transwoman. Body Dysphoric Woman instead of Transman. Then we’re having a truthful discussion - well, truthful if someone really is Dysphoric, but I think you could argue that thinking it for whatever reason ( social contagion, homophobia etc ) does actually bring dysphoria.
Broadly agree but dysphoria just means a crippling unease so "body" is too broad . Could apply to people like me who hate their features. Sex dysphoria might be a better descriptor.
Language should reflect reality not convenience. Especially when it is language that influences law and policy.
Mr Menno - this guy absolutely rocks. Love him!
Menno is the perfect person to have this debate. He is totally unbiased, he simply deals in reality.
No one is totally unbiased.
@@manchegocheese997 How about he’s NOT a radical leftist who he has been infected by the mind virus of the LGBT-Bully Cult…. Better?
@@maxxwellbeing9449 Not a particularly high standard tho...
If we realistically look at the world (and dont live just on Twitter) that describes at least 90% of the population... :DDDD
@@dimercamparini If you think at least 90% of the population is "totally unbiased," then YOU are not dealing in reality! 😄 Here in the U.S. we are more polarized than at any time since our Civil War & the tribalism is fed by different news sources giving each side different "news" (propaganda) & thinking they are unbiased while the other side is either stupid, insane, or evil.
@@DonnaBrooks When I said that 90% of the population does that I was referring to the "deals in reality" part...not the "being totally unbiased part".
And I was specifically comparing that to the "twitter sphere" because in that particular environment instead, the vast majority DONT deal in reality, but actually live in fantasyland...
(objective truths exists and the vast majority of the world still acknowledge them even if, looking at the media and at social networks, that doesnt seem to be the case...but is just a false/twisted image)
On the other hand, obviously noone is completely unbiased on anything...so that would be the 100% of the population in the "biased" status (not just 90%)...but my reply wasnt meant to talk about that...I hope is more clear now...
Thanks Peter, it's always great to see a new SSE video drop, especially when your guests are so brilliantly chosen.
Our pleasure!
This whole thing about how someone presents is all a smokescreen. The law needs to step up and protect our sex-based language and legal documents must stay true to biological reality. Most of us were never puritans and very liberal with live and let live mentality, till this hit our schools, infiltrated our public sector and major institutions, and our language was changed to nonsensical garbage. Wear what you like but male or female cannot be changed, whatever else society chooses to add as an ‘extra’ gender/identity marker.
100%
Thank you for keeping it real Mr Menno🥰
Why not use ‘mentally I’ll’ as a catch-all?
Mr Menno is really just saying what clear minded, honest people are thinking.
I wish this one could have gone on for longer! It's always good when the participants don't always agree, as the conversation that comes out is that much more interesting. Plus Mr. Menno is always fun, and I respect Stella's dedication to her profession.
every psycho cult member could be described as ''dedicated''. you are experiencing weaponized empathy. stella is on the pee dough side. children cant consent to AGP role playing perversions. she is an artist - a turd painter
She's not licenced and no record of her on the register.
Came to watch this after people were talking about it in KJK's live chat. Wow, she is so wrong. We don't "need a word", we already have one, and that word is "pretending", a perfectly good word.
Menno talks sincerely and legitimately for sex, same-sex attracted people, women, and children.
I used to support Stella and Genspect. I've wavered since hearing her defend an interview with David/Debbie Hayton where she ignored AGP, despite this hugely impacting on his family, which is what the programme was about. Sge claims that in her many years in education to qualify as a psychotherapist, she had never heard of transvestitism, AGP, and other paraphillias. In all her courses, she never covered abnormal psychology or sexology or seen the documentories about self-confessed AGP crossdressers and transvestites of 70s/80s? I did. And during my psychology course back in the 90s, at undergraduate level.
Her excuses come hard but seem off.
I dunno. 🤔
Anyway, great pairing. Loved Menno 😍
I feel the same way…Ray Blanchard should have been one of the first books to read once diving into the madness from a psychotherapist angle….it‘s not really new, is it?!
@@lynnm6413and @shawa1
Stella O'Malley and Sasha Ayad interviewed Ray Blanchard on 4 feb 2022 in episode 61 of their podcast "Gender a wider lens".
Idem, Michael Bailey on 14 jan 2022.
What I díd hear Stella say, is that she didn't know what an AGP is, when she featured in the 2018 channel 4 documentary, in which she visited D. Hayton.
@shawa1 Did yóu know what an AGP is in 2018?
You write about "all her courses". What courses do you mean? Did you attend them yourself? I don't understand that part of your comment.
edit @shawa1
I think I understand now what you mean: You mean the courses that Stella herself attended for her education?
@@EarthlingEveryman-zv7bs Yes, I understood that quite clearly.
However, I fail to see your point.
She went to the Haytons for a documentary, is a psychotherapist and should have read up on the topic beforehand.
Now that she has, she still doesn’t get it.
It‘s not a good look to be purposefully obtuse and naive.
@@lynnm6413 Could you give the title of the book by Blanchard that you refer to?
@@EarthlingEveryman-zv7bs Yes, it is called
Clinical Management of Gender Identity Disorders in Children and Adults
1990, 224 pages
Mr. Menno sometimes comes up in my list of recommended videos...very likable dude and great videos (perfectly edited)...he is great! :)
Really interesting, Menno made some brilliant points. What I really like is that it promotes thinking about the topic and hopefully understanding 👏
Question 1. I can think of a word to describe people who think they are the opposite sex...deluded. There doesn't need to be a special category because they are not transitioning. They remain what they are as one cannot change sex. There may be a medical term such as "post operative men/women who've had genital surgery & bilateral mastectomies and who take wrong sex morhones.
The “I have no idea yet” mat should be one step behind the “Neutral” mat.
And that last question should have been asked again with added to it “Assuming the sexual act is safe, sane and legal”
A man calling themselves a woman doesn’t make them a woman as much as calling an apple a banana makes it a banana. Taking the stem off of the apple still doesn’t make it a banana.
We can't police clothing but if we raise awareness and talk about what AGP is, then we put back the stigma that has always existed about exhibiting fetish in public. It doesn't matter the style really or whether kids are around - women are uncomfortable and should have the freedom to avoid those men and at the very least not be forced to play along. We can't stop them from coming to public places but if everyone knows exactly what it is then they will feel the shame that always kept it where it belongs in the past. Since we normalised it and made it a sexuality just like being gay it's made it okay to rub it in our faces and it's really not okay.
TBH, if it's a PUBLIC space (and not some kind of segregated space for women) is totally YOUR prerogative to leave if you feel so offended...
What if some man is offended by women who wear trousers or have super short hair cuts??? :DDDDDD
@@dimercampariniConsent comes first. If someone flashes you, you can leave. But the boundary has already been crossed. The same can be said for AGPs who sexually signal to themselves in public.
@@PussyWillowFairy You can only be "offended" AFTER a boudry is actually and evidently crossed...NON before...there is no "pre-offense"... :DD
(you cant "imagine" a thing and be offended by it in advance...better, you can, but I really dont care about it, is not, and should not be, my or anybody else's concern...we are not living in a Minority Report "pre-crime" world...)
Mr.Menno and Stella!? Loved this episode, wish it was much longer!
Please have Mr.Menno on again, he's so much fun!
Loving this and particularly you Mr Menno ❤
“But if thought corrupts language, language can also corrupt thought."
Orwell
Wow we can't use lots of syllables...i am fine with "men who have had med interventions" or acronym of some kind. It's not that big a deal.
Right? If the medical community had no qualms about imposing their "sex assigned at birth" nonsense on us, they can handle lots of syllables to describe men in womanface.
I liked the approach Genspect took to this awhile back but I've lost respect for them as they have gone too far into affirming and believing in trans identity. Even what she does with "we have to have a word" is placating people who have an identity based on cognitive dissonance. Mr. Menno is spot on when he notes that much of the language is about obfuscation.
Having a word to describe a phenomenon doesnt automatically means that you agree with said phenomenon, or even that you think that is real...we have LOTS of words to describe abstract concepts and things that are absolutely not real...
(one out of many that a very large number of ppl seems to like and use, for example: "god") :DDD
Regarding Stella's wish for words:
Notice that out of the three hashtags under this video one has the word trans in it, two have the word gender in them:
#transgender
#genderidentity
Peter Boghossian has probably some reservations about the notion of genderidentity, but still he uses the word.
How else would people be able to find this video?
Probably it would be a good thing if the language about this subject evolves.
It would be optimal if "neutral" words could be found, that where acceptible for all parties concerned in this game. However, that is a tall order...
@@dimercamparini If you look at their website, you'll see they have a trans-identifying person on their board. I paid close attention to them back when I was in the early process of detransition in 2021/22. I can appreciate not wanting to take too hard a stance as an organization that wants to help people with gender questions (particularly children), but their affirmation of "true trans" can be dangerous to those they want to help
@@DJPRobertson1987 "they have a trans-identifying person on their board"
So what?
There are plenty of T-ppl completely against the recent gender ideology and the alphabet cult.
Being a T-person doesnt mean automatically that you are in favor of self-ID or transitioning children or other stupid things like that...
I dont know what "true trans" means...but if it means that a person has cronic body dysphoria and he wants to appear similar to the other sx to feel better (as a consenting, mature minded, adult)...living his own life and doing his own things without interfering and trampling on the rights of the opposite sx...I have no problem about that...
Mr Mennos is a legend, whose is based in reality
A single word will always be redefined and used to confuse and obfuscate.
This is why descriptive terms that are unambiguous are required. Tough if that's a pain to say every time, but better to do that and be clear than to be misunderstood.
Only Mr Menno is being realistic here.
To Stella’s first or second point - even the term “medically transitioned” is misleading because it suggests it is possible to “transition” from one sex to another, in any kind of way. It is not. The accurate way to describe that is to say “a person who has underwent surgery in order to attempt to appear to be the other sex”. There is no “transitioning”, there is no changing from one sex to another.
Its like using 'top surgery' or 'bottom surgery'. No. Much better to use the longer more honest Elective bilateral mastectomy etc
Good conversation. I think both made interesting points. I agree more with Menno, but I really like this conversation.
I would like to say personally I agree mostly with Menno but I very much appreciate both Menno and Stella for doing this. And Peter of course.
“People who have medically transitioned” is a misnomer, what is “transitioned”? What have they “transitioned” to? Their sex is the same, their brain is the same, their bones are the same, it’s purely aesthetic, nothing changes about them as a ‘person’.
It’s as significant as “people who have had a boob job” or “person who has had a tattoo” - it doesn’t matter or mean anything, one’s iDeNtiTy changes nothing about the person they are.
Menno articulates this perfectly. He is a breath of fresh air
I love that Dutch-Englishman . Always got great takes, great character too.
I love Menno, 5 minutes in and already nailing it with truth telling precision accuracy. Unfortunately he is dealing with a lot of people who are simply not the brightest bulbs in the daffodil farm. 💡
What a ridiculous suggestion to say we need one word to describe a person who has had genital cosmetic surgery.
Hey, Mr Menno, mixing with a philosopher and a I‘m-not-sure-psychologist…
Congrats for your award
And thanks for picking apart and explaining about the „ cis“. Never was comfortable about it but could not put my finger on it
Thank you gay man of the year.
Damn, I really enjoyed Menno Kuijper's answers. What an impressive fellow.
My concern is when a minority group are changing language that has been used and well defined by the majority for years. How are they allowed to "correct" my language? By all means invent a new word.
Watching this reminds me the power of words and ideas. If our ability to communicate with one another is broken down, how do we ask for help or defeat evil in the world? I think I agree with the gentleman in the video about the word tr ans. 7:06
Lol his laugh 8:36 so cute 😆😅🤣
You should check out his channel - he is a wonderful man and so very clever.
I’m on the first question. I agree with Menno - where do you draw the line? When do they ‘become’ trans? How much medical transition? Just hormones? Hormones and breast implants? Hormones, breast implants and vaginoplasty? I don’t get Stella’s point here at all….
Stella might mean well but based on this interview she is not gender critical in any way, she seems very “tru trans” to me.
This was so good. I’ve thought about these questions a great deal yet there were still things that got me thinking! 👍🏼
Also, it’s good to see in real time that sometimes, even if you think something’s cut and dry, it may not be that simple.
Thanks Peter, Stella, and Mr Menno!
Oh my gosh!! Another episode with folks i am fans of!
This was a great episode. I see the points on both sides, and like the comradary they shared.
Camaraderie.
@@caroldonaldson5936 cum-rod-dairy
I totally get what Stella is saying about needing a word to differentiate between people who claim to be trans and people who have medically transitioned. However, the sticking point for me is that drugs/operations do not change their sex.
As long as whatever word we use clearly acknowledges what sex a person is, I have no issue.
The term trans suggests that that person is literally the opposite sex to their actual sex. If the term trans meant that the person dresses up to emulate the other sex, but we are free to acknowledge their actual sex, I have no issue. So actually for me, these terms are arbitrary. What's important is the meaning behind them, how we understand these terms culturally.
Mr. Menno is awesome. Love his content.
This was fantastic! More of this please. I'm going to go through your videos & see if you've done anymore of these thought provoking exercises. It was great! Thank you!
Stella said we need a word to describe people who have medically transitioned amd that its reasonable to use "trans" for that.
Question: what have they transitioned between? They've transitioned from what to what?
only in 2024 is "you look extremely gay today" a compliment. hahaha
Go back just 200 years, and it would also have been a compliment….a unisex one, no less
Haha!! True!!
That guy was brilliant. Worth listening to.
My Menno !!!!!!
Yes Mr Menno keeps it real 🕊🙏🏻🕊
Great video! Apparenly Stella not licenced and seems ignorant of issues, more interested in men liking her than a professional in this debate. More of Mr Menno!
Listen, I don't agree with all of Stella's positions-- I was more in line with Menno here, overall-- but I really don't understand this hostility and, frankly, cattiness towards her. "She only thinks X or Y to appease men" is something that I've heard sooo many feminists resort to when they encounter a woman who doesn't believe what they think she *should* believe (and I've seen this used against out and proud lesbians, ffs); it can't possibly be that a grown, adult woman with her own mind came to those conclusions via logic and rationality, or her own experiences and deeply held principles-- it's clearly all about men!
@@somni2246extremely well said! Thank you! 👏
"more interested in men liking her"
LOL...can you possibly use more "radical feminist" concepts, pls?! :DDDDDD
(next time just define her a "pick me"...that is the proper and approved insult of your tribe!) :DDDDDD
@@somni2246 Thank you! I get so sick of the groupthink, the sycophantic devotion toward some people and the hate pile-on of others. None of these people have a single independent thought. It's a hivemind & if you criticize it, they'll attack you.
Stella seems to consider the use of "trans" as originating with "transition," but it really comes from "transexual" and/or "transgender." The prefix "trans" means "across" or "to cross" between two things (which, ironically, actually confirms the binary of male/female.) For example, "transcontinental" means "across the continent" or "crossing between one coast to the other coast." Similarly, "transatlantic" means crossing from one side of the Atlantic to the other (again, between two things.)
Menno is correct that humans can't actually transition into the opposite sex, so the use of trans as in "transitioned" is even more wrong than using "trans" as in someone who is living/presenting "across" from their biological sex.
I'll go further in saying that I find it ironic that we describe a man who presents as female as a "trans-woman" and a woman who presents as male as a "trans-man." That seems backwards to me. A male who is "transsexual/transgender" is presenting trans (across) from his biological sex, which is male. A female who is "transsexual/transgender" is presenting trans (across) from her biological sex, which is female. So in replacing the "sexual/gender" part of "transsexual/transgender" with their biological sex (which is what they are crossing FROM,) a male who is transexual/transgender would actually be "trans-male" and a female transsexual/transgender would be "trans-female."
The trans activists have purposefully changed that to be the complete opposite by calling a transsexual/transgender male a "trans woman" and a transsexual/transgender female a "trans male." This change is what allows them to say scientifically inaccurate things like "A trans woman is a woman."
Totally agree, I was really irritated when they did that. Can't believe it's been a decade or more since they played that switcharoony. Soon after that the word cis was introduced, it was an instant rejection from me.
I love Mr Menno!
This was great and I love love love Menno so much!!! He is awesome!!
Stella is being dishonest here. The backlash over that man was because many women that attended the conference believed it was a safe space for women impacted by gender. I think she's right that they couldn't have done much to get rid of him at the time but was there not a social media post promoting his book with a photo of him smiling in his woman costume? It's probably also unfair to say that a Genspect conference has to be or should be a "safe space" or geared towards women's safety and dignity or some kind of community of support when it's an org for professionals but it was very poorly dealt with in the aftermath when perhaps a few carefully worded posts apologising to women that were upset and explaining that he was not there as a special invited guest or being promoted could have smoothed things over?
When I hear "safe space" IN ANY CONTEXT and coming from any "side", these days, my skin crawls...
All of this should have been kept countercultural and not mainstreamed. Even though I am a lesbian I feel that the ideal that should be modeled to children is a committed heterosexual relationship. Obviously gay people and even those that are 'trans' should not be denied housing or employment or harassed. The best thing for children is to not be exposed to this nonsense. Those that are gay will figure it out.
Preach, kids need to know what "normal" is before figuring out what isn't!
Monsieur Menno - j'adore you. You take a stand and draw clear boundaries. Stella is way too lenient.
Excellent episode! One of my favourites so far, really got me thinking!
Let me point out a flaw in Peter Boghossian's point of view that anyone who won't change their mind is an extremist: Reality exists outside of ourselves. Someone who has millions of years of evidence for one side of an argument that refuses to change their mind (because the reality did not change, only linguistic tricks) is not an extremist.
He is not saying that you are an extremist...he sais that if you are completely unable to change your mind (in the eventuality/possibility of new evidence) your point of view is only ideological (blind faith based) and not fact/evidence based (and therefore not particularly clever or valid).
He actually expressed this concept a lot of times in many videos, and that is obviously correct.
Menno!!! ❤️❤️❤️
Love these nuanced discussions and debates with level headed people to balance out the street debates
only 8 minutes in and thoroughly enjoying this, thank you. Great guests yet again