You’re very good. Can totally tell you put hours behind those mezzo tempo executions to build the muscle memory. And it’s really nice to see some Vadi done so well. Please keep posting, I’ll watch every video!
I've been writing a class out based on just this, I'm calling it "How I learned to stop worrying and love the Mill Wheel" Awesome and informative as always :)
Super interesting. When you say that the lunge is the basis of all Italian fencing, are you mainly speaking of the Bolognese and rapier traditions? It is not clear to me at all that Fiore uses any kind of lunge footwork, at least in the way the lunge is conceptualized in later sources.
Look at the first scholar and first master of fiore, to me, it reads as a constraint at the tips and pushing a thrust with a lunge, clear as day. You can see vadi talk about this as well in chapter 3, and of course bolo and rapier, but Fiore does to me, lunge as well, similar enough to vadi, except with less emphasis. Who knows, might do a whole series on that in the future 🤔
@@Sinestrahema I think Fiore has something similar to the demi lunge you mention with his simple step and his "opening/advance" (autocorrect is fighting the Italian word way too hard) but I would say it is much smaller than a full lunging step
@@ryankolick4117 yep, Demi-Lunge = half lunge. I'm not trying to say there's a rapier-esque full lunge in Fiore, the half lunge is though. It's just shorter to write lunge than Demi-Lunge and at the end of the day, Demi-Lunge is still a lunge.
@@Sinestrahema I would argue it's even smaller than that as Fiore is working with both a shorter sword than Vadi and coming to stretto is, while not always preferred, an accepted outcome a more balanced stance is more preferred. Plus Fiore tends to be more offline than toward the opponent. In all truth though that is mostly disagreement of the semantics of direction and distance/degree of lunge, the mechanics of the action remains the same
Some interesting stuff here. I wouldn't agree about the demi lunge being foundational for Italian footwork, as it first appears in Vadi whereas Fiore is much closer to the Lichtenauer footwork. I'd argue that this is the "style of the ancestors" Vadi refers to, as Fiore's guards tend to be predominantly left leg forward and almost invariably have the sword on the opposite side to the leading leg or central, neither of which Vadi uses. It's lovely seeing you use the rotare so nicely. Also some excellent cutting behind the blade so effectively - it's something I'm intending to incorporate into my own fencing now I'm more familar with Vadi. I notice you don't seem to use Vadi's constrained footwork starters as much - is there any reason for this?
Well, I just fundementally disagree. Yes I agree Fiore passes more consistently and doesn't have the discordant parries as I *attempted* to pointed out in the video, but to say there's no half lunge in the source is wrong to my read and the updated translations I use, when I get to fiore you'll see why! As for the constrained footwork, are you talking about demi-lunge? If so, it's mostly because I've been trying to work passes and rotare *back* into my fencing by using the thrust from sagittaria to breve longeza to enter. Thanks for the convo!
@@Sinestrahema None of the pictorial material in either the Getty, Dossi or Latin manuscripts show any indication of a lunge like step - the feet are, if anything, closer together than shown in the guards. It also doesn't follow that Vadi would seek to distinguish his footwork system from Fiore or spend time describing it if they both used the same footwork. If you have other evidence then I am ofc interested to hear it. Beyond that, love your work, thank you for all the effort you go to.
You’re very good.
Can totally tell you put hours behind those mezzo tempo executions to build the muscle memory. And it’s really nice to see some Vadi done so well.
Please keep posting, I’ll watch every video!
I've been writing a class out based on just this, I'm calling it "How I learned to stop worrying and love the Mill Wheel" Awesome and informative as always :)
Okay congratulations, I've always been curious but I'm definitely getting into this because this is very cool 🤘🏾
I love the doublet, where’d you get it from?
Super interesting. When you say that the lunge is the basis of all Italian fencing, are you mainly speaking of the Bolognese and rapier traditions? It is not clear to me at all that Fiore uses any kind of lunge footwork, at least in the way the lunge is conceptualized in later sources.
Look at the first scholar and first master of fiore, to me, it reads as a constraint at the tips and pushing a thrust with a lunge, clear as day. You can see vadi talk about this as well in chapter 3, and of course bolo and rapier, but Fiore does to me, lunge as well, similar enough to vadi, except with less emphasis. Who knows, might do a whole series on that in the future 🤔
@@Sinestrahema I think Fiore has something similar to the demi lunge you mention with his simple step and his "opening/advance" (autocorrect is fighting the Italian word way too hard) but I would say it is much smaller than a full lunging step
@@ryankolick4117 yep, Demi-Lunge = half lunge. I'm not trying to say there's a rapier-esque full lunge in Fiore, the half lunge is though. It's just shorter to write lunge than Demi-Lunge and at the end of the day, Demi-Lunge is still a lunge.
@@Sinestrahema I would argue it's even smaller than that as Fiore is working with both a shorter sword than Vadi and coming to stretto is, while not always preferred, an accepted outcome a more balanced stance is more preferred. Plus Fiore tends to be more offline than toward the opponent.
In all truth though that is mostly disagreement of the semantics of direction and distance/degree of lunge, the mechanics of the action remains the same
@@Sinestrahema is that a lunge, or an advancing step? I think I may be confused about terminology here.
Some interesting stuff here. I wouldn't agree about the demi lunge being foundational for Italian footwork, as it first appears in Vadi whereas Fiore is much closer to the Lichtenauer footwork. I'd argue that this is the "style of the ancestors" Vadi refers to, as Fiore's guards tend to be predominantly left leg forward and almost invariably have the sword on the opposite side to the leading leg or central, neither of which Vadi uses.
It's lovely seeing you use the rotare so nicely. Also some excellent cutting behind the blade so effectively - it's something I'm intending to incorporate into my own fencing now I'm more familar with Vadi. I notice you don't seem to use Vadi's constrained footwork starters as much - is there any reason for this?
I agree.
@@frankheninja1 about the footwork?
Well, I just fundementally disagree. Yes I agree Fiore passes more consistently and doesn't have the discordant parries as I *attempted* to pointed out in the video, but to say there's no half lunge in the source is wrong to my read and the updated translations I use, when I get to fiore you'll see why!
As for the constrained footwork, are you talking about demi-lunge? If so, it's mostly because I've been trying to work passes and rotare *back* into my fencing by using the thrust from sagittaria to breve longeza to enter.
Thanks for the convo!
@@alexhunt7810 yessir.
@@Sinestrahema None of the pictorial material in either the Getty, Dossi or Latin manuscripts show any indication of a lunge like step - the feet are, if anything, closer together than shown in the guards. It also doesn't follow that Vadi would seek to distinguish his footwork system from Fiore or spend time describing it if they both used the same footwork. If you have other evidence then I am ofc interested to hear it. Beyond that, love your work, thank you for all the effort you go to.