Bosch Smart System Review: LED Remote, Kiox 300, Flow App
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- Опубліковано 4 лип 2024
- The Bosch Smart System is a new generation of electric bike hardware that is internet enabled. It tracks rides, allows users to adjust Eco and Turbo assist settings, and update firmware using the Flow smartphone application. In this video, I explore the buttons and operation of the LED Remote, the Kiox 300 display panel, and the Flow app. Some of the considerations I discovered during the research and testing of this hardware were as follows:
- Bosch Smart System components are not backwards compatible with prior generations of Bosch Ebike systems.
- I think it would be easier to find the smartphone app if it were named "Bosch Smart Systems" instead of "Flow".
- The Flow app is currently setup to adjust the bike and do mapping more than act as a display while riding... but that could change with future updates.
- The Kiox 300 display panel is removable, and the bike can be operated purely with the LED Remote.
- The LED Remote has five blue LEDs that represent charge level, when one increment is half empty, the LED turns white. This gives you 10% steps for a more precise readout!
- I suspect that the Kiox 300 runs entirely off of the ebike battery and does not have a rechargeable coin battery inside like the Bosch Intuvia and original Bosch Kiox displays.
- Both the LED Remote and Kiox 300 adjust to ambient light automatically so they won't be too dim or too bright.
- The Kiox 300 screen is about 2" diagonal, which isn't as large as I was expecting, the glass is wider and taller than the actual screen below.
- The Flow smartphone app lets you adjust Eco and Turbo assist levels, including top speed. The Tour+ and eMTB assist levels are not adjustable.
- The bottom edge of the LED remote has a USB-C port that is labeled for diagnostics and 5 volts and 600 ma/h but it does not provide charging support for portable electronics. I confirmed this with a Bosch representative. To me, this is too bad considering the new high capacity PowerTube 750 batteries, and the prior generation of displays that did offer charging (Intuvia, original Kiox, and Nyon). With this information, the positioning at the base of the control pad is less important... originally I was frustrated that a charging cable would interfere with a dropper lever and get in the way of the left grip depending on your hand position.
0:00 Introduction to Bosch Smart System
1:14 LED Remote activation and functions
2:59 Activating lights and walk mode
3:34 USB-C charging port and diagnostics
6:25 Bosch Flow smartphone app (Smart System app)
9:28 Bosch Kiox 300 activation and menus
13:08 Kiox 300 settings (changing units km/h to mph)
14:55 Powering off, Outro screens (ride stats)
15:48 Conclusion and site resources - Авто та транспорт
I reached out to Bosch to clarify the USB-C port on the Kiox 300, and unfortunately it does not offer charging... which is too bad considering the new high capacity PowerTube 750 batteries, and the prior generation of displays that did offer charging (Intuvia, original Kiox, and Nyon). With this information, the positioning is less important.
Really? I was so happy I had a usb-c port I could use... I actually tried it with a few adaptors I had, but none of them worked. Now I understand why.
Isn't there anything that can be done for this to be used? Why is it there?
Thanks
Bummer. I was excited too!
Thanks for wrapping up the year with another great video. You’re my go to resource for staying current with ebikes. Love your thoughtful approach and positive attitude. Stay warm!
Hey, thanks so much! I'm glad you enjoy the videos and positive energy, thanks for reciprocating with your comment :D
Happy New Year, and I like your username! I read Ready Player 1 when it came out and was an original backer of the first Oculus Rift on Kickstarter. Are you into VR too?
The bosh led remote has a small battery and can be operated whith no cables attached.
The usb port is for charge the small battery.
Thank you for this brief - and very struggled to get going 😊
Fantastic tutorial on the Bosch Kiox 300 👍thanks for the video, always informative
Thanks. Just got a gen 3 9.8. Really enjoyed this insight.
Another very thorough and informative review.. thank you .
thanks for all that good info i just got a new bike with this system. It will be a lot to get use to . My first E Bike.
I've ridden a Rail and it is such a sweet bike!
We are having 77 degree weather here in Coastal Georgia. Later this week, we will enjoy 81 degrees.
Stay safe!
🚲🚲🚲
That’s wonderful! I’ve been out scraping the snow off of my car and shoveling the driveway the past few days… bit it’s good exercise and kind of fun! Georgia would be a nice break. I drove through on one of my review trips years ago and liked Atlanta. I hear that they’ve been filming there a lot because the scenery is good and taxes are low!
Here in Central Florida it's 81 all week. We've been having amazing weather.
Nice! I've driven all through Florida many times and love the state! I remember the bugs on one stretch of road heading South that would get all over the car, and they had these pull off stations with water to clean it off because apparently they were acidic and could harm the paint or something. It's a wild place! What are your favorite spots durkadur27?
Thanks for the great detail. Do you know if the display can be removed to make room for a kids seat mount?
Thanks for the great review. Do you think it is worth the upgrade from the purion? I have just bought a bike with that display. Many thanks
I also drive a Bosch and the one thing I really wished for, is some kind of security system. Now they call it Smart System, but it’s not even smart enough to protect the bike a little bit :( .
I saw recently a system with RFID. How smart would it be, when you lock your bike with your Flow App? Other brands do exactly this.
The point is, bycycle theft is on a absolutely unbelievable level now. Here in Germany, over 260.000 bikes got stolen in 2020 and Bosch comes with a Smart System without a real bike protection.
You can remove the Kiox, but what happens, when you put another one on it? Does it work? If yes, it’s a critical failure.
What I wish for is a system, that your Kiox completely locks the system when it’s removed and you’re not able to reboot it, with another Kiox. If your Kiox gets broken, you need a new one specific with your internal key. Another way would be a fingerprint reader or an RFID chip.
What do you think about bike security systems?
Great questions and insights Benjamin. I wonder if any Kiox 300 would work, and if that would make a stolen ebike usable and resellable. Sorry to hear about all of the theft where you're at. I had a nice bike stolen earlier this year, had only ridden two times and the thief cut through a gated garage and a folding ABUS lock I was using :(
I like your ideas about security and RFID, especially if it didn't require a subscription the way that cellular security devices like the Boomerang do.
Good point. The older Kiox and the new Nyon can both have the lock feature added via the app that 'locks' the motor to that particular display so no other display can be used rendering the motor inoperable without the correct display.
I guess the reason the new Smart System doesn't have the feature is that the Kiox isn't required to operate the motor on the new Smart System, you can do it just with the remote. As the remote isn't easily removable then a 'lock' system that requires a particular display to be connected would mean you wouldn't be able to just use the remote on its own. It does seem a step backward though.
@@BDX55 super good point.
Thank you!!! I know it's been a year since the vid, but I just bought a Cannondale Moterra Neo 3 and it came with zero information on the Kioxx 300. The Bosch site is a bit useless, IMHO. I downloaded the paper manual. And I even watched their UA-cam video. Just not the easy/helpful. Your video did a great job of explaining the buttons in a way Bosch didn't.
I have just ordered the same bike how do you find it? Have you chipped it?
I absolutely love the bike. I mean it is HEAVY. But my regular is a custom carbon stumpy, so this with a motor and heavy battery, expected. No chip. Too early. I just registered the warranty.@@lewiskent6207
Hello. Thank you for this comprhensive vid. What kind of system are you using to fix the Kiox 300 on the frame ? 🙏
I'm very new to ebikes but wondering... Does the Smart System prevent the pedals from turning or lock the fork, when in lock mode? I know the motor will disengage when removing the kiosk display but the thief can still pedal away. 🇨🇦
Just subscribed, very nice info man💯🔥
Thanks for the video! 💯
Thanks for the encouragement Roy! I had to shoot in parts because my hands were getting pretty cold for this one :D
It’s a neat system, and I’m glad that Trek had a bike with it that I could test ride. Anyway, happy Holidays!! Hope you’re well :)
love the tech
I saw that you could buy Kiox 300 standalone, is it possible to replace the Kiox 8025 and have old remote control be able to control it? If you just want that smart feature of being able to upgrade software for your soft and hardware. Or is update only available in the Flow app and not the Bosch ebike Connect? Recently bought Trekking 10 and didn't notice any Trekking 11 in the stores so totally missed it out. So maybe in the near future it would be nice to just upgrade your old Trekking bikes with this new hardware instead of having to buy a whole new bike.
Love the observation of the charger port
Maybe round 2 👍
Be safe riding
Bike Week Hobo 🛵
Thanks BRAXTON! I hope you're having a good time riding and being safe too. Still snow on the ground here, but it's kind of fun to run around in :)
Great video. Thank you..
Is it possible to connect the borsch power meter with a garmin watch to be able to measure vo2 max for cycling?
So, charging with the USB-C port is not possible. What about the connecting cable between motor, LED remote and Kiox300? Do you think it might be possible to grab power from this cable to charge the phone? Or maybe 3D prtinting an adapter plate at the Kiox300 to take power from here?
When I upgraded my intuvia remote with the new smartphone hub I was disappointed that the buttons were so much harder to push. Happy that the new ones seem easier to press.
Also wondering if this smart system is the end to the speedbox type chips 😅.
The buttons really are much easier to push, and more satisfying. The left/right and +/- buttons are on rockers, so the whole button is firm plastic that teeter-totters and has more travel and isn't as flexible as the big flexy buttons on the Purion that didn't always press down consistently and seemed vulnerable to being snagged and ripped off.
As for the "speed dongles" and other tech that allows for adjustments to bike performance... you make a good observation. I think that the combination of this new system with more regular software updates combined with their newer rear wheel speed sensor (that goes on the disc brake rotor or mount vs. the chain stay mounted ones that could be covered or more easily physically changed) does make it increasingly difficult to change how the bike performs. Time will tell... where there's a will, there's a way! At least Bosch has a speed motor option, unlike Shimano.
Hi, I want to know is possible to use a smartphone app instead Kiosk 300 to display information during a ride? Similarly, if you have a smartphone or watch, are you likely to use maps from smartphones displayed in Kiosk 300? I want to use just 1 display on the bike, not two; what is the current state if I need navigation.
Yeah, from what I can tell it is possible to use your smartphone with the Bosch Flow app to display a map and some limited stats (ride time, distance, avg speed, elevation, avg power, avg cadence) while riding... but it does not appear to show current speed, range estimate, and other details that are displayed on the Kiox 300. That list of stats and the views available to a smartphone (or other electronics like a watch) might change with software updates. I believe all of that information is made available and some ebike manufacturers will probably introduce their own apps using info from Bosch. Here's more clarity on the eBike Flow App: www.bosch-ebike.com/en/products/ebike-flow-app
Wow! That system and bike are really cool but its amazing that some ebikes are $13k and even some daily driver trucks are pushing $80k these days. Sadly, as quality and technology improve some of us may be priced out of both of these markets in the future. Cool to dream though. 😄
It’s wild how sophisticated and refined some of these ebikes can be. I appreciate your positivity here, vs being angry or hurt by the pricing. This is a top of the line product, like a very fancy sports car or something… it’s neat to see, but not really designed for the average rider or even competition level rider. To me it’s like an elite super car. Nice to see that there are still many $1,500 Ebikes out there :)
Thanks for another awesome review !!!
"The Flow smartphone app lets you adjust Eco and Turbo assist levels, including top speed. The Tour+ and eMTB assist levels are not adjustable." *Sorry dude that is just dumb. Now if what you are saying is it auto-adjust the 2 and 3 levels depending on what you set for bottom and top ? That is still just dumb (I will explain if you want.)
So only 2 levels are adjustable ? I am not really surprised at whatever the gestapo of ebikes does. After all, they only rent you the bike for life. Iow, they set the speed you can go (speed limiter) verses you owning the bike and being able to go what speed you want. (okay that will fire up the borged luddites lol)🤣
* with st-unlocker on my shim steps motor all assist levels are 0-100% torque adjustable and it really does make a difference having the middle settings at the level you want for a smooth transition.
(Same with Mission Control on Special Ed bikes.)
Will it work with speedbox?
I have to ask, i have a problem with my bosch remote like in the video, as soon as i start pedaling no matter the mode im in it always turn orange, is it because i don’t have the kiox 300 display yet or is it smoe problem with the remote?(bike is new btw)
how did you install the kiox 300 on the knock block without the wires?
Is the remote bolted to bike on one side with no support on other? Reason I ask is because that make it more likely to break in a crash. Like that the other display can be removed sometimes less is more. Seems like it should be recessed in to the frame like other companies do thou.
Yeah, the clamp that mounts to the handlebar appears to raise the base of the LED Remote about 5mm and the top of the LED Remote is about 2.5cm above the bar. The whole thing can be rotated forward or back, but it is definitely the highest thing on the bar (if you flipped the bike over, the plastic LED Remote would be the first thing to touch, followed by the right grip and possibly the right grip locker and right brake housing clamp. I would agree that the LED remote is definitely more likely to break in a crash where the bike flips completely... but the plastic is very tough from what I can tell, and I like how easy the buttons are to reach in this position.
Hi. Any suggestion on a full suppention belt drive ebike with throttle? I live in the USA
Hmm, that's a tough one. I think DOST is working on a bike like this (but it's probably a ways out).
I have read multiple reports and manuals and I am fairly certain that the USB-C is NOT an output, but it ACCEPTS 5V 600mA. This seems to be meant to hook a power bank up to your bike to keep the KIOX running or to charge the battery to use your bikes light if the main battery has drained. (Explains the weird placement of the port too)
Interesting… I wish I had the correct cable to test it because the manual does say 5v 600mA charging, but it also says for diagnostics. I’m going to reach out to my Bosch contacts.
Update, I just heard back from Bosch about the USB-C port, and you are correct. It is not designed to charge portable electronic devices... which is too bad given the high capacity PowerTube 750 and how the Intuvia, original Kiox, and Nyon all provided this feature with Micro USB. I've sticked a comment to the top here with this information to help others. Thanks again DSP!
Was the screen placement like that from the factory? I just went to the local bike shop to buy a bike with the smart system (led remote) but without the screen. I requested for them to place the screen as well. When asking if the position from the video is possible they told me that it has to be like that from the factory that he can not place the 'screen cradle' on that top bar. Do you know if the wires go in the frame/if it's brand specific? For now he can only place it on my bar directly.
Your shop is correct, the Kiox 300 is mounted in a very unique position on this electric bike. I have rarely seen it since doing this video. Most of the time it is mounted on the handlebar at the center, just above the stem. I believe this was a custom design from Trek that helps to protect the display in the event of a crash. It also creates space on the handlebar for other accessories, and makes the bike look stealthier. The downside is that you have to look lower in order to read the display, which could be uncomfortable and distracting.
The new digital led remote its amazing for them pureon 200
If I could I would buy the hole lot and find out what one fits me. Believe it or not the most simplified it is to use have the most advanced technology not the other way around. I have a Bosch dishwasher and other kitchen appliances.
Just got that system today on my new cube mmmmmm,😊😊😊😊
The location of that Kiox display is a deal-breaker for me. I think it's dangerous where they positioned the Kiox - and Trek knows it, because of the distracted warning message that appears on the Kiox. No such message appears on my Purion display which is on my handlebar.
Kort. The Gen 1 Kiox charges from the Bosch battery system, not a seperate battery.
Hi Rob! I also thought that was the case, but I did a bunch of searching and found posts talking about it having a separate battery. I believe the original Kiox can also be turned on when not attached to the bike and it will stay on for a short time. Here's one of the sources I used www.emtbforums.com/community/threads/kiox-display-need-charging.14102/ I'd love your feedback if this is incorrect or I'm missing something.
Est-ce que c'est possible de l'avoir en français ?
Vous demandez des sous-titres en français ou vous espérez avoir une autre vidéo avec un son en français ? Je ne parle qu'anglais et j'ai utilisé Google Translate pour répondre :)
No hint on the price for these electronic and carbon fiber
Hi Douglas, I do not know the replacement prices for the individual parts of the Smart System, if that's what you're asking? This particular Trek Rail 9.9 XX1 AXS is listed here for $13,549 USD www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/bikes/mountain-bikes/electric-mountain-bikes/rail/rail-9-9-xx1-axs/p/35678/
I think the display screen is mounted way too Low for any rider to use effectively during a ride. Should be on the handlebars instead
I agree that it would be more convenient to read if it was handlebar mounted… the position on this particular bike was Trek’s decision and may be for protection if the bike goes down. Other ebikes with the Kiox 300 do have it mounted on the handlebar.
Kinda meh really.
Yeah, I'm excited for the potential and grateful that the app is clean... I like the positioning and buttons of the LED Remote, but it kind of offers what we have with current generation Kiox right now.
To far
Once again this guy talks for 17 minutes on the information that he imported could've been covered in 8 to 10 minutes. I think he likes to hear himself talk.
Thanks for the feedback, I do my best to keep things clear and focused but do tend to take more time going into detail. I also had to break this one up a bit due to the cold weather and some information fixes... and still got a couple of things wrong. Doing my best ;)