My guess, for the "no cappu after 11 am" rule, is the same as the reason for only getting white sausage until noon in bavaria: cooling. In the times before refrigerators were invented, you had to use up such things as raw veal sausage or milk, that were delivered in the morning by delivery vehicles cooled with ice blocks, while they were fresh.
@@JBthePAdashC they did, they are simply offering an alternative, which as someone born and raised in Italy, I think is generally more likely due to practicality and would further explain why the rule remains from north to south.
@@niccoloreiss842 it’s not an alternative. The comment from Becky Weisfeld completely ignores that James addressed, thoroughly, that even someone with lactose intolerance can still tolerate a smaller amount of lactose without symptoms. That was the basis of the entire beginning of the video. So to come back and comment that lactose intolerance means no lactose ever means that they either didn’t watch the video but are surfing the comments section and adding unfounded opinions/information, or they watched it and ignored it completely. Please note that I found the initial comment, from Sven Kleese, about cooling as an alternative to be a very interesting idea and historically pertinent.
One of my best friends growing up was Italian and from how he explained it to me it has more to do with Italians view on food. Italians view a cappucino as a meal. Having a cappucino only for breakfast isn’t abnormal. They also just don’t eat anything substantial for breakfast compared to other cultures I’ve found. If you are asking for a cappucino later in the day they could get confused because you are ruining your appetite for lunch and dinner, the most important meals of the day. So have espresso later in the day if you need coffee but don’t you dare add milk because that will ruin your appetite for the later meals. Also asking for a cappucino after a meal is an insult because that implys that whoever fed you didn’t do a good enough job because you are still hungry if you can drink a cappucino after a meal, again because they consider a cappucino as a meal supplement. That’s how he explained it to me but this could just as easily be an urban myth!
I'm italian and I've never heard of it, but makes sense. I'd say usually cappuccino and a brioche is a standard breakfast for many people here (not my style but it's common). Probably the last part could be true in the south.
As a barista at Starbucks, yes. 26 oz. lattes with eight pumps of syrup is totally normal here. WE AREN'T A COFFEE PLACE ANYMORE! Anybody want a milkshake with some instant coffee? We call those frappucinos! Quirky, I know.
Started following James about a year ago. As a registered dietitian, I’m extremely impressed with his scientific approach and frequent references to scientific literature. Top notch content, James!
Because of your credentials, are there any details you thought should have been added to this video? Other possible health effects? I often hear people talk about coffee as a laxative, for instance. Do you think this may play into the "No cap after 11" rule?
I used to live in Italy. The rule was actually for no milky drinks after 10:30am. Also, drinking espresso after a heavy meal would help digestion. I found this to be true in practice.
Others seem to have said it as well, but my understanding is rather simple: the milk is filling and slower to digest. Because Italians have rather small and sugary breakfasts: Cappuccino e cornetto (croissant) or brioche (basically, any kind of sweet pastry), it's for the sole purpose of getting on your feet. For example, an old-world farmer's breakfast was known as "zabaione," but NOT the dessert cream confection that we normally now associate with that word. It was literally a raw egg yolk, sugar, and espresso mixed into a paste and drunk like a shot before going out to the fields. It's absolutely delicious, and the dessert is a re-imagining of it. The point of Italian colazione is to get the boost of sugar and caffeine to be able to be alert in the morning...the slow burn of carbs and the heaviness of the milk helps keep you full until lunch. But then, the issue is that during pranzo (lunch) or cena (dinner), you are filling up on food. Whether it's pasta, fish, meat, vegetable, usually Italians at home after a meal will have a piece of fruit and espresso. They culturally forbid the application of a large amount of milk (of course, caffè macchiato is always an option at any hour) in part because the idea is that you won't be able to digest the meal properly because it is so filling, the milk will spoil the taste of whatever else was eaten during the meal, and it ruins the pleasure of enjoying the coffee itself. This is a huge part of Itailan coffee cullture: the taste of the espresso is utmost, and adding sugar or milk in any capacity alters that, and so while exception is made for the morning, it is expected that if you are taking coffee (also note, the word used in Italian is always "prendere," to take, and never "bere," to drink, a coffee) you are doing so also to enjoy that specific flavor, even if it has to be slightly sweetened or lightened via the application of sugar or milk. As someone who is lactose intolerant as far as milk is concerned, though perfectly capable of eating dairy foods, I always get into arguments in Italy because naturally I request things like almond milk for my coffee, and I usually prefer a long drink versus a quick shot. However, in Italy, I always follow the rules, especially after a particularly funny scene I inadvertently caused some years back in Florence after an exquisite meal when I just barely asked for a cappuccino with soy milk during dessert. The entire restaurant froze...it was like a scene in a movie! My friends and colleagues were embarrassed and thus I avoid asking for any sort of milk-based, even nut-milk-based, coffee drinks after 12 noon. One last bit, what you say about butter vs oil is very true, however, don't forget that in Southern Italy is where we make the best soft cheeses: mozzarella, scamorza, and many others. I'm not so certain that lactose malabsorption, though decidedly interesting and quite likely involved, is the main culprit. Thanks for the great videos!
I've recently been in a traditional restaurant in Florence and there was a sign in the entrance that read: Caffè €1.50 Cappuccino €5.000 So it makes sense that people would look at you shocked if you ordered a cappuccino at dinner. I would too and I'm not even Italian! 🤣😂
He said the milk line between north and south was due to the heat spoiling the milk since it has a lot of bacteria in it. Obviously cheese would strive off such a fermentation process since it's basically long rotting milk... Hence why the South- I guess- flourish in cheeses...
Right? I'm going to start using some of his videos as my bedtime sleepscapes... And just to be clear... sleepscapes work because they are interesting while calming. They keep you focused on a story or topic so that your mind doesn't wander and start stressing you. It's not the same as a "this is putting me to sleep" boring thing at all. :)
I'm Italian, have been living here since I was born. There really is no good reason why we typically only drink cappuccino in the morning, it's just a cultural thing. We tend to associate breakfast with sweetness, the most popular and "quintessential" Italian breakfast is cappuccino and a croissant/brioche, so we are naturally inclined to think of cappuccino as something you drink in the morning. But then again it's lot like the bartender is gonna deny you a cappuccino at 4pm. They might think it's a little weird but nothing more
I did a bicycle tour of Italy (Mantua to Venice) as an obvious American and ordered many cappuccinos after noon. Every single time they tried to talk me out of it. Later I found out that they may have had to get stuff dirty for me. I went from feeling like a proud rebel to feeling guilty about it.
Yup! Visited Italy many times and have drank many a café au lait... Coffee with milk and all of them after 16h(4pm)... And this in rome, Florence and just across the french border.
I only drink milk coffee if any. I don't drink coffee after 3 pm in Moscow time - it's 13:00 in Rome, not that far. Then I have a problem - what to drink with dessert? Unlike Russia, Italy isn't a tea country
Hi James, from a fellow Italian and a molecular biologist who really appreciated you talking about malabsorption instead of intolerance. Big heart for you. Anyway, the reason why most of Italians drink cappuccino only before 12am (not 11), it is just related to its heaviness. Drinking a cappuccino an hour before lunch or close to "aperitivo" before lunch its just difficult to take. Which is not related to lactose malabsorption - can you imagine an Italian who doesn't eat ice cream in the afternoon or after dinner? CRAZY ahahaha. We are weird people who love to keep it simple, that's our style. Same for espresso shots. When we order a single cup of espresso it is implicit for what I call normal shot with 7 gr of coffee. There is no double or even triple shots of espresso for a single cup, it is just too much. Same for food, simple cooking (even if for foreigners it doesn't look simple, it really is) simple and fresh ingredients only. Our cappuccino is 100-125 ml of milk and a normal shot of espresso. Nothing to compare, FORTUNATELY, with those huge cup Americans use to prepare now. Triple shot and 2 300 ml of milk. It will kill me, and I am a coffee and cappuccino lover.
The 'not having it too close to lunch' makes sense, but then what about eating or drinking anything else in that 11-12 window? And also then what's the issue with having a cappuccino AFTER lunch?
@@stevendunkelman6205 as another italian (weirdly enough I'm about to get my degree in biotechnology, funny coincidence with the comment above) I can tell you that it's not a rule by any mean. I personally don't have any issues with drinking cappuccino or coffee whenever during the day ( generally a double or triple shot if I make it for myself), and I've never been "judged" for ordering a cappuccino in the afternoon lol. I think it's more of a thing in the south of italy, and for turists in general since bar and restaurant owners tend to lump in turists by nationality ( the way germans are known here to drink cappuccino during the meal, that for some unknown reason angers people in the restoration industry).
I am totally aware of the Italian desire to not experience "heaviness" as a result of a meal/drink. Perhaps this is a case of inherited wisdom delle Mamme. I am a dairy machine and do not know firsthand, but would a side effect of drinking too much milk for a lactose malabsorber be a sensation of indigestion? Thus, it could be lumped in generally with the idea of feeling heavy? I just see so many cases in Italy where there are these rules in the kitchen that are religiously followed, but the reasoning behind them always seem a bit.... suspect. I don't doubt that there is some real core of wisdom, but no one really seems to pick at it - with Italians I find that having a critical mass of opinion trumps actual proof in many contexts. I can't tell you how many times my wife (who I met while she was doing a PhD at Imperial College) has expected me to accept the wisdom of "Everyone says..." On the other hand, this may be a case of me being suspicious having had too many discussions about getting colds from having wet hair or the dangers of cervicale because of fans/air conditioning. ;)
I think that as well as for most of cases there is not 1 answer. As I said before, most of Italians follow this rule. And as someone else said, it is most followed in southern Italy than in northern Italy. About drinking for example a spritz before lunch and feeling it less heavy, it is just like it is. I mean, milk is heavy, especially because bar use whole milk. Aperitivo instead it is just few pieces of bread, pizza or salami, and a slightly alcoholic drink which "open or prepare " the stomach for lunch. About the rules we follow, many are just the way things should be cooked. Pasta al dente (not overcooked, it allow you to chew it better, taste it more and digest it better). Tomato sauce with fresh tomatoes and so on. I personally don't follow the "cappuccino rule". But I find it easier drinking a macchiato after lunch compared to a cappuccino. Even if our cappuccino is 100 ml of milk.
@@jameshoffmann THANK YOU Actually! And no, you're not one of my favorite UA-camrs, you are my favorite UA-camr. I even had a dream meeting you in a coffee shop once and spoke to you at a table. Thank You for waking up something in me, and provoking me to go on a Coffee knowledge, experimenting rampage for the past 10 months. You're awesome.
Italians "No cuppachino after 11. It's too heavy" Italian American restaurants: "Here's your 1 lb of pasta noodles drowned in alfredo. Would you like espresso after your 4 glasses of red wine?"
@@pinkopat oh I wasn't trying to make an argument. Just kinda playful jesting. But actually, do ppl in Italy not eat Alfredo sauce?? Is it tomato or nothing? Because in my city here in canada there is an Italian place run by 100% Italians and their Alfredo is the best I've had anywhere in my life.
@@kdids if by Alfredo sauce, you mean that heavy cream and cheese based sauce that can drive you into a food coma: no. You aren't going to find it anywhere in Italy. But if you mean the light cheese and butter sauce that somehow became that heavy monstrosity: yes. You can find it. But outside of Rome, you'll likely find it by a different name. Fettuccini al burro (or -al triplo burro for the actual dish which was later called Fettuccini Alfredo).
Italian here, the "no cappuccino in the afternoon" thing isn't really taken as seriously as most people make it out to be. At least here in the north, might be more felt in the south. Just don't order a cappuccino along with a pizza or we'll make fun of you forever. Looking at you, German tourists!
I love that the German tourist is such a joke all around Europe. I thought it was a British thing, then found out my Danish best friend cracked jokes about them as well, and it's kind of a Scandi thing. And now I have found an Italian who also cracks jokes about German tourists. Moral of the story: Don't act like a German tourist 😄
@@BlueHen123 Don't talk rot. He gives what he believes is the *likely* origin. He then supports that with facts about lactose digestion. If this is the case then there is no way Italians would have known the exact reason historically because the understanding of lactose and the problems it gives people is only very recent. None of the information is bad. He doesn't declare that his answer is definitely true, just in his opinion that's it's likely.
"raw milk can only be served fresh in the morning" - he literally said that in the video. Didn't mention refrigeration specifically but he said that the tradition may have been something to do with not being able to keep the milk fresh in hotter climates, which was the reason that people with low lactose absorbtion may have developed that way.
Mike Brady no that traces back to developing tolerance for lactose in broader genome. But what i’m saying is more concerned with technological availability in the past 100 years which may have indirectly impacted culture. Similar to the tradition of making cured meat and alot of french cuisine recipes
italians also eat cheese with almost every meal (especially pasta), in pesto there's cheese, actually there's some kind of grana in anything italian lol. also cheese and meat platters.. this video is really BS. meditarranean cuisine is based on diary.
I worked for a company which was part of The Fiat Group, and have worked with many Italians. One Italian work colleague explained to me that the coffee bars, and other shops too, had to pay a considerably higher unit price for electricity in the afternoon than they paid in the morning, and as the steamer for frothing the milk for a cappuccino uses a lot of electricity they often refused to serve cappuccinos in the afternoon. The price of electricity fluctuates with demand, and the air-conditioning units have to work harder when the midday sun is out and for a few hours afterwards, and that is why the demand goes up at those times. That was all explained to me in a rather animated manner after I had suggested that the habit of no cappuccinos after midday might have something to do with the amount of flying insects which seem to wake up at midday and then head for the nearest milky drink available. Apparently cigarettes are the best way of keeping insects away from you, I must have smoked the wrong brand though because I would get lots of bites on summer evenings in Turin.
My boss from Pisa would agree. Thriftiness prevails as well as custom. To save some money on the dairy you just kept it for the mornings, it was a breakfast thing. He wouldn't shy away from cheese, yogurt, puddings, or ice cream. He is 81 and very healthy diet oriented, except for ICE CREAM of all kinds. Never causes him a spot of trouble.
@@momkatmax I'd presume that keeping a fridge for milk to stay fresh whole day would cost some money. But the steam wand? Does it really consume that much more than an espresso machine?
Italian here too: the ‘no cappuccino after 11am’ rule is an old say from classy people, it’s a rule of behaviors, not anything with diet. Just like you don’t drink alcohol in the morning cause it’ll make you look bad, you don’t drink cappuccino after 11am, cause the day is moving forward and you should get a wine!
@@Krytern Serbian here, people love to drink rakija here, it is a 40-50% alcohol fruit brandy (mostly plum brandy) that people drink in the morning to '' warm up for the day '' it is extremely strong and it is part of the culture, my dad has been drinking a shot of rakija in the morning for about 20 years and to me it is crazy
As an Italian I was prepared to argue, but this actually makes a lot of sense and lines up with geographical and genetic differences. I think it’s a very rational explanation. Someone definitely did his homework.
I have to disagree with James and you, if you agree with him on the reason for no Cappuccino after 11am rule. As an Italian, are you saying Milk isn't served in any form after 11am? How about ice cream? This was posted by someone else, but I'm more inclined to believe her reasoning as to why there's a no Cappuccino rule after 11am and that's because at the time this came about, there wasn't refrigeration to keep milk after 11am. Say a farmer milked his cows at 6am.. maybe it soured by 11am? Makes more sense to me than saying most people can tolerate 150ml of milk, and Italian Cappuccinos usually only have 100ml of milk.. and because of that, they don't drink it after 11am. WTH? If you can tolerate 150ml, what difference does it make what time you have it, when it's only 100ml?
@@crabjoe First of all, the 11am it's not an actual "rule", but it is strange and unusual to have a cappuccino after lunchtime. The fact that milk doesn't keep without a fridge is the reason why italians (and warmer countries) use oil to cook and not butter. It sets the genetic divergence for low lactose tolerance due to availability of fresh dairy products. Ice cream does indeed have milk in it, but again in small amounts. Also, ice cream is normally (WAS normally) served in relatively small portions, and if it's a working day, you won't see many people having ice cream in their lunch break. Cappuccino is known to make you run to the toilet, and while it's perfectly fine to do that first thing in the morning, it's inconvenient to have your stomach and intestine rumble all day while you are at work. Then, while the first cappuccino of the day is well within your tolerance limits, the next one already puts you into the "brown" zone. Italian routine is go to work, before going in you normally stop for a coffee/breakfast, which consists in guess what, a cappuccino and a pastry. Cappuccino is heavy to digest, due to the low lactose tolerance of humans, and after 11am you are pretty much approaching lunchtime, you wouldn't want to spoil your appetite by having a cup of milk. Remember that italians have larger meals at lunchtime, unlike northern countries that have a quick sandwich at the desk, italian offices close for even 2 hours, allowing people to go home to eat. A cappuccino is also considered "heavy", and after a meal (both at home or outside) you wouldn't want an extra thing to digest that will make you sleepy, you want something small and snappy like an espresso, that doesn't affect your digestion, so you're able to get up and do things, instead of being full and lethargic.
@@SimonWoodburyForget Based on what I've heard, most of the world is lactose intolerant. The only group of people that aren't are those of Northern European heritage. Me personally, I've always hated the taste of straight milk. As a child, I was forced to have a glass every morning.
@@SimonWoodburyForget It's true that the majority of the world's population is lactose intolerant. I just googled it and they estimate is 68%. As for having lactase added to milk, maybe they do in different places, depending on the population?. Maybe not if milk isn't sold in the same volumes as it's sold in North American? I myself have a mild case of lactose intolerance. If I eat dairy products, if say a cheese pizza, which if one of my favorite foods, if the cheese is a high quality cheese, I'm running to the rest room within 3 mins of my meal. If it was made with crap cheese, the stuff with a lot of oil, I'm perfectly fine.. I know a few others like myself with varying degrees of intolerance. Years ago, I worked with a guy that had it so bad, before he ate, he took a lactaid pill. He was scared to risk eating anything that might have lactose in it.
@@SimonWoodburyForget .. its nice that you live in your own world where everything is a lie unless you believe it. You might want to rethink this line of thinking.. give Google a try and read the articles. BTW, Google doesn't tell you anything other than where the information is. Then its up to you to decide if you trust the article(s) you read.
Great video, unsurprisingly! The only thing I'd like to add is that italians love to fancy (?) themselves as extremely delicate and fragile creatures and often end up being too apprehensive towards themselves for some weird reason, and that goes way beyond just cappuccino drinking habits. Must be because growing up there, especially in the south (though nowadays I feel it makes a lot less sense to use this distinction) many "mamme" are often overprotective and children grow up with this idea that anything could potentially hurt/kill them. It's the country with the mildest winters in Europe and yet many are always worried about "colpo di freddo" wich is basically the fear of gettig a cold, even just from a light summer breeze XD. I remember going to the beach there as a child and they would give me or my family weird looks for swimming right after finishing my "panino". Nowadays young people laugh at this things and are becoming cultural memes but many still have this attitude towards life and are pretty vocal about it, wich is even funnier, especially if you consider the fact that all this precautions are taken even by people that are heavy smokers or live a very unhealty life, but when it comes to eating they suddenly become hyper-health conscious. Never ceases to amaze me... :D
I like the scientific approach, and the hypothesis is very intriguing. However, as an Italian, non-lactose intolerant (pretty much the opposite) my very own explanation is somewhat different, while related to digestion. Breakfast in Italy is generally light and sweet (if any food is eaten at all), so cappuccino can be perfectly suitable. During the rest of the day, however, Italians tend to consume coffee on two different occasions: right after a meal, and during a break at work. Now, espresso is more suitable right after a meal and we all share this experience: bitterness helps better digestion. During coffee breaks you may see Italians drinking cappuccino anyway, but for what concerns me, since I needed "a break", the kick of the espresso is a requirement.
Is there any truth to lactose intolerance being wide spread in Italy? As a European, I believe it's established that most Europeans are lactose tolerant. As we've been herding kettle for thousands of years here.
@@MariusWM actually it is the opposite. Lactose malabsorbtion is least common in people of European decent (which was the reason stupid medias at one point advertised drinking milk as a neo nazi hobby). You can read more about that on Wikipedia.
It is definitely related to the tradition of drinking something bitter, like a good "amaro", after a large meal to help the digestion while a sweeter drink like a cappuccino would not do (and make digestion even harder). Breakfast in most of Italy is light and sweet, so a cappuccino fits in very well, whereas usually a lunch isn't sweet, and quite heavy (on carbs especially). A coffee, and a strong one at that, is reputed to help in kicking away the "carbs crash" after lunch and be back at work without feeling sleepy. A cappuccino won't do it as well (not in actual caffeine content but more in feeling of intensity).
On weekdays my last coffee is at 3:30pm but you better believe on Friday night I'll have one at 8pm after dinner cause it doesn't matter when I get up on Saturday morning
@@SmallSpoonBrigade Yeah perhaps that's why. But I think that the mane reason is that we often drink a coffee after dinner, which can finish pretty late since we start eating at 9 or even 10PM during the summer.
Very interesting video! However, as a French-Italian who happily switches between cappuccino and café au lait, I like to think it's another example of totally arbitrary rule we Italians have like "you don't use cream sauce with that kind of pasta", "you only use dry pasta in this recipe" or "you can eat these two things separated in the same meal, but you can never put them together in the same dish" 😂
@mipmipmipmipmip Oh they use Chicken in Italy in dishes, trust me but they are using spices on the chicken so as to not have bland meal. How you cook the chicken for Italian dishes makes a big difference in the meal.
As an Italian lad myself I 100% agree, I think old school Italians have nonsensical rules abt food that I'll never fully grasp. Between Italian millennials anything goes tho
All cultures have their norms and they don't all make sense in today's context. We have a lot more options now so we can reinvent rules, e.g. have a cappuccino with oat milk.
From a doctor's point of view, that was a very nice review of the basic pathology and epidemiology of lactose malabsorption due to lactase deficiency! Thank you for that and for the beautiful content you create :)
Even more than his encyclopedic knowledge of all things coffee, I am always astonished by James' remarkable ability to succinctly and clearly relay information to the audience and in the best formulation and choice of words.
@@feronanthus9756 But scientists have found evidence supporting the big bang theory. Or are you saying you believe the universe is cyclical? If so that means the number of tomorrows are also infinite...
My guess was that: Milk is collected in the morning, and goes off quickly in hot Italian weather. So they only have milk in the morning while it was still fresh. (Before fridges were common) However I am not a 19th-20th century Italian dairy farmer, so I don't know when they were milking their cows.
Based on what he said about the amount of milk in the Italian cappuccino, what difference is it going to make what time they have it? Your reasoning for the 11am rule sounds more logical to me.
@@crabjoe the difference is that everybody wants to have a cup of coffee in the morning, but they can't have more than one so they "strategically" position it at 11AM which is technically still morning, but closer to the middle of the day (that's my take at least)
I am pretty certain it is both a cow milking thing and a gut thing, as someone lactose intolerant. If you have a cappuccino as late breakfast, the only thing you risk in your guts if you get diarrhoea is food you already thoroughly digested. Coffee makes you poop anyway too. If you drink milk later you're going to lose valuable nutrients you never actually got a chance to absorb, making you feel worse off and sleep poorly.
That was so beautifully put, clearly articulated and so a sign of the changing times. Back in the day, some 15-20 years ago I used to sell food intolerance tests.i remember being round at my sister’s house, she was a junior doctor at the time with two house guests who were also both medics. I was asked what I did for a living and upon sharing a couple of stories I was met “Don’t go bringing any of that shit to us mate, we’re gastroenterologists.” So, thank you James for a lovely, simple explanation of a condition most encounter but few understand.
Honestly as an Italian it just feels weird to drink cappuccino in the evening because we usually think of it as something for breakfast. For most of us it's just like the idea of eating cereal for lunch/dinner. It's just...weird.
A lot of that is how you grow up. When I lived overseas, I had to get used to some pretty weird breakfast foods. Well, weird from my point of view, but normal for most Chinese. Congee was probably the one that was closest to something that I'd consider a breakfast food. But, there'd be noodles and steamed buns and bean curds. Finding out that the barbecue pork stuffed buns that I'd been getting in the US were actually a breakfast food was a bit of a shocker.
Ah I’d always heard lactose intolerance explained as a particularly Asian trait, never an Italian one! This is so enlightening, thank you. I’ve stuck with (blessed) oat milk since I work in a quiet environment, but now I feel emboldened to experiment with amounts. I’ve always found steamed milk to be kinder on the guts than cold milk though.
I'm Asian and I'm glad my malabsorption is moderate. I'll take that 120ml milk limit any time of the day accompanied by some form of pastry. But espresso? Anytime! 😍
Yea. My doctor in America told me you are from subcontinent. People over there are lactose intolerant. Because people generation after generation could not get milk. I told him nonsense. I am from Punjab. Where mothers give you a big glass of yogurt drink as you wake and a big glass of milk as are about to sleeep and whole day in the villages people eat and drink yogurt and lassi. Curries all are made with yogurt in them. Our fridges never run out of butter. I don’t knew where these western doctors got this idea that only cold area people can consume dairy. And there is some arbitrary line across the northern hemisphere. What piece of crock.
Your videos are just so engrossing James, I honestly never expected to love them as much as I do now when I first happened upon your channel. The soft speech, the handy and interesting information and the engaging storytelling make for quite an excellent experience.
The reason is that coffee in Italy has a function (actually more than one, that's why we love it) in everyday life. Espresso is used to improve digestion after lunch, leaving a more 'neutral' aftertaste in your mouth. Ending lunch with milk would have the opposite effect, causing a heavier breath and uneasy digestion. We also have espresso after dinner and mostly for the same reasons. It's allowed to have an 'amaro' (called 'the coffee killer') after coffee because alcohol helps with digestion as well. A cappuccino or caffelatte (latte) is what you would have for breakfast because until lunch there are no meals in between, so a more substantial drink is auspicable to keep you going. In Italy every 'food rule' is there to maximise the pleasure, that's another reason why we only drink single shots, more often :D
@@val26874 It's becoming an option in cafes but I personally don't know any Italian drinking drip coffee, sometimes addressed as 'dirty water' lol. The coffee flavour of an Americano is generally perceived as too diluted and with too much caffeine, so not appealing.
Well, instead of actually doing "caffé filtro", many restaurants and cafes simply pour you a shot in a cappuccino cup and serve it with some hot water on the side so that's most likely the culprit of making the coffee taste like "watered down dirt water". The greatest majority of restaurants and cafes only have espresso machines so they try to accomodate that way.
@@cdgonepotatoes4219 That is actually the definition of "caffè americano" in Italy: a single or double shot of espresso in a cappuccino cup and some hot water poured into it. In some coffee places the water is served on the side, so you can pour by yourself the quantity you prefer. This is of course very different from actual American coffee, that for Italians is more like a very strong, warming and tasty tea. Especially during Winter, it is becoming quite common in large northern cities thanks to McCafés and Starbucks or similar venues.
As many already said, is more a cultural thing, since cappuccino and brioche are a classic breakfast. If you ask for a cappuccino after a meal it's like eating a full meal and then asking for egg bacon and beans as a dessert. Just weird. It's okay for an afternoon snack tho, but it must far from lunch or dinner.
Exactly! cappuccino isn' t usually drank after lunch or dinner, but I' ve never ever heard of no cappuccino after 11 am ( i' m Italian). Many drink cappuccino as an afernoon break for example and I drink at 5 pm when I finish working
È VITATO, CI SONO DELLE LEGGI, LA NOSTRA COSTITUZIONE PARLA CHIARISSIMO! Seriously, in Italy cappuccino is a breakfast drink, served with a cornetto (croissant) or biscotti (cookies). Your hypothesis about the origin of this tradition is really interesting, but I have a stronger explanation: fresh milk has been delivered in the morning for ages, we gradually developed a habit that became tradition. We also eat tons of cheese.
Had some great discussions about this with my Italian colleagues, they felt horrible for us and told all kind of anecdotes about this. But in the end they needed to admit that it didn't make sense to not drink milk after 11, but eat mozzerella or burrata with lunch or diner. It was funny as we did together a research on the origin of the cappucino. And how they almost 'died' of needing to admit that the origin comes from Austria where they had Kapuziner Coffee. The Italians called the monks Cappucini. And because of the white and brown clothing they wore the coffee became named after that. And it widely became know as cappucino as in Italy they invented the industrialization te eventually the perfection of coffee how we know it nowadays. With a kettle, and a lever to pressure hot water to a cup with freshgrinded coffee, and steampressure to froth the milk.
My best friend is Italian. I was taught this very important point when I stayed with his family in Reggio di Calabria. Got some very odd looks in the coffee bars when I ordered cappuccino in the afternoon.
Having lived in Spain for some time the traditions are similar here. Except they have a cafe con leche in the morning and then in the afternoon will go for a cortado or cafe solo (espresso). The reasoning I have heard is that it is heavier and therefore compliments a light breakfast better than a post lunch pick me up. Interestingly, when I lived in Italy the majority of people would actually just drink espressos all day. Even in the morning. Not so many went for the cappuccino. We would meet at the coffee bar before work and choke back an espresso followed by a shot of water and then huddle into the office, but this could have been a time thing I guess
@@SimonWoodburyForget depends on what you're using it for. If you're frying an egg, you use either butter or olive oil. We don't use that vegetable shortening crap of yours though in the Mediterranean
@@SimonWoodburyForget they're categorized as fats and can be used for frying foods. That's where the similarities end. We DO NOT use vegetable shortening or seed oils in our cooking. There are no benefits.
I’ve just discovered your channel. I love how soothing and calming your voice is. You’re up there with the soothing voice greats like Mr. Rogers, Bob Ross, and Morgan Freeman. 😊
After having my first and probably only bistecca Fiorentina, the restaurant asked me if I’d like any coffee with my dessert. I said sure, I’d like a cappuccino. This was a huge mistake, and they laughed at me for a solid minute. Then when I jokingly asked why they’d serve cheesecake for dessert if dairy was bad after 11, I got some very angry stares by the owner. Still a 10/10 experience, best steak of my life.
Yeah, it seems like that's the other half of this. There are social standards for certain gatherings and establishments in certain countries that are good to know about and flout only after consideration. This is mainly a defense against that one person you know who insists that your 3pm latte from a cafe in Ohio is Doing It Wrong because they read something on the internet once.
Ryan, you must've been typing your comment when James noted that cheese has 5% of the lactose milk has. Besides, who wants cheesecake after a bistecca fiorentina?
My wife, a northern Italian, says this video should be titled,"why southern italians can't handle their milk." They literally eat salami and polenta covered in fresh cream before they go skiing. And cappuccinos ARE much bigger than that in the north.
I’m originally from northern Italy and the cappuccinos you get there are usually quite small compared to your average cappuccinos in the UK or US - I’d say they are closer to a flat white in size.
I went to a small local osteria in Florence a couple of summers back. The waiter explained to us that you shouldn't drink cappuccino after 11 am, because of the sun in the afternoon. He told us that the heat of the sun can upset the milk in your stomach and make the cappuccino feel heavy on your stomach when walking in the sun during the rest of the day.
Glucose and Galactose sound like a pair of 80s cartoon villains. "Holy Snapping Jacket-Buttons, Batman! Galactose has stolen the Ultimate Space Mallet!"
Last time I was in Italy I asked a local "If you stop drinking cappuccino after breakfast because of difficulty digesting milk, why is it that you can eat gelato all day long?" She just grinned and, using her hands, gave me the best explanation I ever heard. She said "We do it... because we do it."
Another explanation is that the higher fat content in gelato slows digestion, which means that the lactose reaches the gut more slowly and does not produce a whole bunch of gas/discomfort all at once. For the same reason, people who are lactose sensitive tend to have a better time eating ice cream than drinking a glass of milk
I guess I’m Italian at heart! I’ve been following that rule for a long time, with some exceptions of course! Love coffee and love learning about all aspects of coffee through your channel! ✨
I was told in Italy that actually they don’t drink milky coffees later because espresso after meals can accelerate and support digestion as it increases vascularity in the stomach. While milky drinks slow it down. Also my guess is that the Mediterranean breakfast is sweet like one croissant with a milky so sweet hot drink like coffee. That’s why they prefer cappuccino in the morning. I liked your explanation very much too, there might be an observation by people during centuries behind it. Very interesting topic. 👏
Also, there seems to be some digestion issue with milk + coffee that coffee or milk alone don't have. I used to get cappuccino to feel satiated for longer, and to slow down the coffee adsorbtion. It works decently well.
I'm guessing that due to his interest in all things coffee, he likely already has and maybe he isn't mentioning it because he holds it in similar esteem to ColdBrew
@@bengardner3408 I bet you buy foods branded as keto lol I wasnt trying a keto diet, but recently, out of curiosity, I put a thin slice of butter on top of my grounds in my pour over, after the blooming phase. It was great. It was smoother, creamier, and brought out the flavors of my coffee.
Hi James, I greatly enjoy all your videos for their depth and value, but on this one my friend, you out did yourself! Amazing the amount of knowledge, facts, and explanations you give us! Thanks for all your hard work bringing us these videos!
Growing up one of my best friends was Italian, the dad explain to me, that the only time they would have cappuccinos is in the morning, because it helpsto fill you up and gives you energy, but for the rest of the day you would drink espresso because you don't need to fill up anymore you just simply want to enjoy the coffee and get the boost that the coffee gets you.
Netflix is gonna pick you up for something some day. Mark my words. You’ve got a vibe for everybody, man. Thanks for even thinking to make this video, didn’t know it was a thing.
I found out pretty early in life that I'm not lactose intolerant in the slightest... yet coffee with milk still often makes me feel a bit off. No idea why. I'm tempted by a bowl of cornflakes now, though....
I am Scandinavian. Our trad food contains milk and cream. When I grew up, I heard every now and then that Scandinavians were the only culture that wasn't lactose intolerant due drinking milk as a long tradition.
Very interesting! But I would like it more with the references and sources to the studies that you mention. I like to check sources, and me being Spanish, I would like to see if there are any results about Spain.
I went to Italy with the Navy and person from the uso came to tell us about local customs. One was this rule about cappuccino, because it was the'90s drink of choice in the US. The other thing that stuck in my head was use your thumb to say you wanted one of something. If you used your pointer finger you will probably get two.
Same for France the rule applies as well, reasons why if you have ever seen Tour De France or Giro De Italia, they use the thumb as the one during the countdown for the individual time trials and stage starts.
"drink what you want, when you want in Italy" - except when the barista shames you for ordering cappuccino after 11am, and hang their head like a disappointed parent.
This matches up exactly with my experiences…. Born half Italian and at approx. 21 years of age, I began to experience stomach distress. It got progressively worse and every doctor wanted to test for lactose malabsorbtion, but I told them, “That can’t be it! I drink milk like you breath air”! Anyways, that was it and it was like losing the greatest love of my life. Over a year of struggling to get used to “NO MILK”. I use a splash of heavy whipping cream in my coffee. It has less than .01% of lactose in it naturally. Zero issues. Thanks for the informative video!
@@poolahpot In fairness, I did try RAW, grass fed milk. I was living in upstate New York at the time and there was a dairy where you could leave a dollar and fill up with 1 gal of milk from the tanks before they were ever pumped out and taken to processing. It was the honor system and I’d fill up two half gallon old school glass milk jugs. By morning, they’d separate into about half milk fat and milk. It was sooo delicious! My stomach went wild! My problems became the worst they ever did. That’s what led to the doctor visit on a morning when I hadn’t eaten and finally getting the subsequent lactose test. For me, the only difference that made was the most extreme symptoms to date. I’ve become accustomed to it now that it’s 40 yrs later and with lactose free milk, I can have all I want.
@@bobchevallier8456 Yep, same here. I enjoyed half&half, but after a few days, I’d start to react…. I avoided Heavy Whipping Cream because I thought it had to be worse. Then I read some documentation about how it has less than .01% of lactose sugars in it. Made sense since it’s all milk FATS, not sugars. Been using it with zero issues. Costco Horizon Organic is a pretty good deal and it lasts a long time. Good luck!
As a lactose intolerant since birth and overall very allergic person, thank you for this very informative video, there still is a lot of people that thinks we're just being fuzzy (tell that to my poor mum when she was trying to breast feed me as a baby and I kept throwing up the Exorcist style)
Super interesting ... when I'm in Italy, I've always been afraid to order a cappuccino in the afternoon because of the comments I would get (my wife, on the other hand, orders away, and couldn't care less!). I always thought it was just one of those customs with a reason lost to history, but this makes SO MUCH sense ... thank you! :-)
I love this explanation, it provides insights of a possible root cause for this 11am rule. Obviously now there are also cultural factors that kicked in. I am not lactose intollerant but for me drinking cappuccino in the afternoon is unconcievable. It reminds me of those turists traps in Rome's city centers with waiters grabbing customers from the pavement; there you can see a constant presence of cappuccini for lunch, aperitivo, dinner; you can also see people eating at 4pm (ewwwww) and pizzas with all kind of crap on top.
I'm italian and I drink cappuccino whenever I want and I surely have nothing against tourists ordering cappuccinos in my bar after lunch. Nice of you trying to give part of the reasons to intolerance to lactose, but the truth is that sometimes culture can be intollerant to other's habits.
Italian here, the answer has already been mentioned in another comments and it's much simpler than this video makes it to be: cappuccino is just too big as a beverage to drink at the end of a meal or as a 2min break in the afternoo (wich is the meaning of a normal coffe)
In Italy you drink coffe everyday and multiple times a day; not the same with ice cream. Ice cream is eaten just sometimes and it is usually considered an exception, so the “negative consequences” (filling and heaviness) of an ice cream are tolerated because they are not an habits (in my family sometimes we even skip a meal if we had an ice cream). On the contrary coffe assumption is an habits in Italy, so this “rule” Is born naturally based on the experience of drinking constantly beverage based on coffe (which lead to prefers heavy coffee beverage, like cappuccino, in the morning since Italian breakfast is quite light and lighter coffe drink after the noon since lunch and dinner are instead really filling meals).
Many "lactose" intolerants can actually still drink real milk by simply making the switch from A1 casein protein dairy to A2 beta casein, such as Desi milk, A2 bred dairy cows, goat milk, etc.
Nope, nope, nope. If I have goat’s cheese, I’ll be doubled over in pain and running to the toilet. The type of protein in dairy doesn’t have anything to do with the amount of lactose.
@@TheLoopyTiger that's why I had lactose in quotes. Truly lactose intolerant people still need to avoid anything with lactose, but there is a large number of people that have mistakenly attributed lactose intolerance as the cause of their milk-related digestive issues, when in reality it is the inflammatory a1 protein.
I have family and friends in Rome and every time I evoked the "no cappuccino in the afternoon" they all systematically answered "tu fai come ti pare", "you do as you wish". I think the rule is considered dated by younger italians and maintained mostly by pedantic purists that like to mock tourists having cappuccino for dinner (which you should if you want, fai come ti pare).
For 32 years of my life I'd feel horribly sick every morning. Someone suggested I cut out dairy like yogurt and milk. Bam, gone instantly. Cheapest health fix ever. I hope more people watch this video and don't suffer as I did for so long!
I lived in Italy for 5 years, even though this is mostly true, I have went out to my local bar to have a cappuccino or cafe latte with my Italian/Roman friends quite a few times in the afternoon
Hi, I’m Italian. What you’re saying is absolutely true, even though I think that the reason why we don’t drink coffee after lunch time is because we usually drink coffee to sort of wrap-up a meal (and cappuccino does’t seem the best option since it’s not bitter enough) or to take a break and it’s more kind of an habit than a reason. Besides, it’s easier to make coffee at home than cappuccino, so this habit of taking a coffee more often affects the choice we make in a bar. Another reason could be that cappuccino is, 9 times out of 10, taken with a croissant, so it seems weird to have a cappuccino alone
Lucas Milagre Tavares Ferreira come on, are you serious? Do you really think that 10 g of espresso make SIGNIFICANTLY the difference. Eat a healthy diet and enjoy a cup of coffee
@@ferraraxx96 There are plenty. This is well understood. Check this reference one I found just now on the National Library of Medicine: academic.oup.com/ajcn/article-abstract/37/3/416/4690726. Or maybe this one (newer one) ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6165914/
Being Italian, really, really badly at absorbing lactose and loving cappuccino I'm happy to see more and more coffee shops, bar and others using lactose free milk so that I can enjoy my 4PM cappuccino (and my 7AM too) with no major inconvinience. I do make them lactose free at home too, the only issue is on the sweetness level of lactos free milk vs normal milk with the first being perceived as sweeter
I wonder what do you think of oat milk? I personally gotten to liking oat milk more than I do regular milk. Also interesting thing is that because lactose is sugar however doesn't taste as sweet as regular sugar it is possible to achieve equal level of sweetness to regular lactose milk by adding half the sugar content to oat milk and at equal amount of sugar to milk it feels way sweeter.
I've been to Italy and people do order latte and cappuccino in the afternoon just not very often. Many who do so are on shift work so the first coffee of the day has milk and that's it. If you wake up at Noon because you work at 3-4 PM in the afternoon till midnight then you're on a different clock that most people who do correctly stop drinking milk-based espresso in the AM.
As an owner and breeder of farm animals, I can actually share that I have goats and have owned cows that happily drink milk. While this is a discouraged activity, because farmers have "better" purposes for milk, it is a pretty frequent occurrence on dairies. As a former vet tech and as a dairy producer, I know many cats, dogs, and pigs also drink milk. In fact, if you get a chance to get milk raised pork, try it and see if you agree that it is a moister, fattier, and somehow smoother meat. While some of these animals do experience problems with lactose malabsorption, and thus why vets now discourage people from offering saucers of milk to cats, if raised on milk, there do seem to be fewer problems, and we do know that some of these animals do continue to produce lactase well into adulthood. (I have also known some exotic species to drink milk well into adulthood, but those are more rare than the other examples I cited.) While 1 in 100 or fewer dairy animals actively seek out milk as adults, that is a large enough number for me to say that humans are not the only mammal that does this. Just thought I should comment and be nitpicky as a likely rarer dairy producer/ vet med/ researcher viewer, as I assume it will be an unlikely perspective.
@@danjv Would a deer in the woods nursing on itself not be "in it's natural state"? Feral cats and dogs and other species commonly considered as wild are caught self nursing or nursing well into adulthood, and not always from mom. Many animals will "steal" milk from bos taurus and bos indicus and other ruminants and ungulates. While the most common place for a human to note this behavior is a dary farm, this is not entirely uncommon behavior in the wild. Several years ago, there was a debate about whether a troop of monkeys that routinely, over multiple generations nursed from cattle could be said to be in a symbiotic relationship, or were merely opportunistic. (They provided some pest control and grooming.) That article tried to claim they had found the "only other mammal" that drank milk into adulthood. The response was huge from biologists citing examples from their chosen species. My favorite was a dolphin researcher who said (loosely) she wasn't sure if it should be labelled as a kink since it appeared to sometimes take a role in foreplay. Humans love to think we have finally found the thing that makes us unique, but one of the few ways I think we might be, is how frequently our ideas of uniqueness are proven wrong. :) Drinking milk, even that of other species, well into adulthood, isn't one of them.
Thought I'd be learning about Italian culture, ended up learning about lactose instead! You explained it very well James!
Video needs to be re-titled :)
I learned about Surfshark
Is wrong all he said please read my comment
Came to say the exact same thing!
Stefania Ops I can’t seem to find your comment, so I would appreciate it if you could paste it as a reply to this comment, and I can check.
My guess, for the "no cappu after 11 am" rule, is the same as the reason for only getting white sausage until noon in bavaria: cooling. In the times before refrigerators were invented, you had to use up such things as raw veal sausage or milk, that were delivered in the morning by delivery vehicles cooled with ice blocks, while they were fresh.
This makes sense
@@beckyweisfeld6977 did you watch the video?
@@JBthePAdashC they did, they are simply offering an alternative, which as someone born and raised in Italy, I think is generally more likely due to practicality and would further explain why the rule remains from north to south.
@@niccoloreiss842 it’s not an alternative. The comment from Becky Weisfeld completely ignores that James addressed, thoroughly, that even someone with lactose intolerance can still tolerate a smaller amount of lactose without symptoms. That was the basis of the entire beginning of the video. So to come back and comment that lactose intolerance means no lactose ever means that they either didn’t watch the video but are surfing the comments section and adding unfounded opinions/information, or they watched it and ignored it completely.
Please note that I found the initial comment, from Sven Kleese, about cooling as an alternative to be a very interesting idea and historically pertinent.
@@JBthePAdashC I’m sorry, I missed the tag in your comment, I thought it was directed at the comment that originated the thread.
He is so organized in his thoughts. It's a treat just listening to him.
One of my best friends growing up was Italian and from how he explained it to me it has more to do with Italians view on food. Italians view a cappucino as a meal. Having a cappucino only for breakfast isn’t abnormal. They also just don’t eat anything substantial for breakfast compared to other cultures I’ve found. If you are asking for a cappucino later in the day they could get confused because you are ruining your appetite for lunch and dinner, the most important meals of the day. So have espresso later in the day if you need coffee but don’t you dare add milk because that will ruin your appetite for the later meals. Also asking for a cappucino after a meal is an insult because that implys that whoever fed you didn’t do a good enough job because you are still hungry if you can drink a cappucino after a meal, again because they consider a cappucino as a meal supplement.
That’s how he explained it to me but this could just as easily be an urban myth!
this actually makes more sense
Josh Gedye
i’ll second that. that’s the explanation i got too.
I see a retitle and an amendment video coming
I'm italian and I've never heard of it, but makes sense. I'd say usually cappuccino and a brioche is a standard breakfast for many people here (not my style but it's common). Probably the last part could be true in the south.
They definitely overestimate the number of calories in cappuccino then.
No amount of diarrhea will stop me from drinking cappuccinos
last famous words
Fearless to the end 😂
I'd drink to that.
LMAO🤣🤣
For me it depends on how much of it is in the cup
Italian here, and no-one is going to stop me from having cappuccino and a pastry at 4-5pm.
"I'm grateful to Italy for keeping a reasonable size"
American Starbucks: "GETCHU A 20 OZ SUGARMILK COWBOY!"
they sell cappuccinos in buckets
Some places serve 32 oz cold drinks now and will even fill the cup with milk if you ask for no ice. I'm not mad about that.
As a barista at Starbucks, yes. 26 oz. lattes with eight pumps of syrup is totally normal here. WE AREN'T A COFFEE PLACE ANYMORE! Anybody want a milkshake with some instant coffee? We call those frappucinos! Quirky, I know.
@@samneibauer4241 haha rip
YEEEEHAWW SUGARMILK!
Started following James about a year ago. As a registered dietitian, I’m extremely impressed with his scientific approach and frequent references to scientific literature. Top notch content, James!
My wife is a registered dietitian and unfortunately doesn't drink coffee 😞 but I suppose that means I get all of it, I just have to sneak the sugar.
Because of your credentials, are there any details you thought should have been added to this video? Other possible health effects?
I often hear people talk about coffee as a laxative, for instance. Do you think this may play into the "No cap after 11" rule?
I used to live in Italy. The rule was actually for no milky drinks after 10:30am. Also, drinking espresso after a heavy meal would help digestion. I found this to be true in practice.
Coffe prevents absorption of iron.
Yes. In short, that's what I also wrote.
I'm not even Italian and found this out in practice and am often drinking an espresso after a heavy meal.
Others seem to have said it as well, but my understanding is rather simple: the milk is filling and slower to digest. Because Italians have rather small and sugary breakfasts: Cappuccino e cornetto (croissant) or brioche (basically, any kind of sweet pastry), it's for the sole purpose of getting on your feet. For example, an old-world farmer's breakfast was known as "zabaione," but NOT the dessert cream confection that we normally now associate with that word. It was literally a raw egg yolk, sugar, and espresso mixed into a paste and drunk like a shot before going out to the fields. It's absolutely delicious, and the dessert is a re-imagining of it. The point of Italian colazione is to get the boost of sugar and caffeine to be able to be alert in the morning...the slow burn of carbs and the heaviness of the milk helps keep you full until lunch. But then, the issue is that during pranzo (lunch) or cena (dinner), you are filling up on food. Whether it's pasta, fish, meat, vegetable, usually Italians at home after a meal will have a piece of fruit and espresso.
They culturally forbid the application of a large amount of milk (of course, caffè macchiato is always an option at any hour) in part because the idea is that you won't be able to digest the meal properly because it is so filling, the milk will spoil the taste of whatever else was eaten during the meal, and it ruins the pleasure of enjoying the coffee itself. This is a huge part of Itailan coffee cullture: the taste of the espresso is utmost, and adding sugar or milk in any capacity alters that, and so while exception is made for the morning, it is expected that if you are taking coffee (also note, the word used in Italian is always "prendere," to take, and never "bere," to drink, a coffee) you are doing so also to enjoy that specific flavor, even if it has to be slightly sweetened or lightened via the application of sugar or milk.
As someone who is lactose intolerant as far as milk is concerned, though perfectly capable of eating dairy foods, I always get into arguments in Italy because naturally I request things like almond milk for my coffee, and I usually prefer a long drink versus a quick shot. However, in Italy, I always follow the rules, especially after a particularly funny scene I inadvertently caused some years back in Florence after an exquisite meal when I just barely asked for a cappuccino with soy milk during dessert. The entire restaurant froze...it was like a scene in a movie! My friends and colleagues were embarrassed and thus I avoid asking for any sort of milk-based, even nut-milk-based, coffee drinks after 12 noon.
One last bit, what you say about butter vs oil is very true, however, don't forget that in Southern Italy is where we make the best soft cheeses: mozzarella, scamorza, and many others. I'm not so certain that lactose malabsorption, though decidedly interesting and quite likely involved, is the main culprit.
Thanks for the great videos!
THANKS, WELL WRITTEN AND INTERESTING.
What a great post!
@@ZaasKenar What a great reply to a great post! (Honestly, this is refreshing to see.)
I've recently been in a traditional restaurant in Florence and there was a sign in the entrance that read:
Caffè €1.50
Cappuccino €5.000
So it makes sense that people would look at you shocked if you ordered a cappuccino at dinner. I would too and I'm not even Italian! 🤣😂
He said the milk line between north and south was due to the heat spoiling the milk since it has a lot of bacteria in it. Obviously cheese would strive off such a fermentation process since it's basically long rotting milk... Hence why the South- I guess- flourish in cheeses...
James when are you going to start reading audiobooks. We need your calming voice in these trying times.
Right? I'm going to start using some of his videos as my bedtime sleepscapes...
And just to be clear... sleepscapes work because they are interesting while calming. They keep you focused on a story or topic so that your mind doesn't wander and start stressing you. It's not the same as a "this is putting me to sleep" boring thing at all. :)
now that i think about it he's probably the only audiobook reader i'd listen to haha
IKR. His voice is like butter.
He just did.
But his voice is too soft. I full blast my speakers and still not enough to hear him well. I'm not deaf. He needs new microphones.
I'm Italian, have been living here since I was born. There really is no good reason why we typically only drink cappuccino in the morning, it's just a cultural thing. We tend to associate breakfast with sweetness, the most popular and "quintessential" Italian breakfast is cappuccino and a croissant/brioche, so we are naturally inclined to think of cappuccino as something you drink in the morning. But then again it's lot like the bartender is gonna deny you a cappuccino at 4pm. They might think it's a little weird but nothing more
I did a bicycle tour of Italy (Mantua to Venice) as an obvious American and ordered many cappuccinos after noon. Every single time they tried to talk me out of it. Later I found out that they may have had to get stuff dirty for me. I went from feeling like a proud rebel to feeling guilty about it.
Yup! Visited Italy many times and have drank many a café au lait... Coffee with milk and all of them after 16h(4pm)... And this in rome, Florence and just across the french border.
@@jayteegamble Yup, you tried to order off the breakfast menu and that grill closed down at 11, son
Bravo. Per la collazione si beve latte........e basta!
I only drink milk coffee if any. I don't drink coffee after 3 pm in Moscow time - it's 13:00 in Rome, not that far.
Then I have a problem - what to drink with dessert? Unlike Russia, Italy isn't a tea country
Hi James, from a fellow Italian and a molecular biologist who really appreciated you talking about malabsorption instead of intolerance. Big heart for you.
Anyway, the reason why most of Italians drink cappuccino only before 12am (not 11), it is just related to its heaviness. Drinking a cappuccino an hour before lunch or close to "aperitivo" before lunch its just difficult to take. Which is not related to lactose malabsorption - can you imagine an Italian who doesn't eat ice cream in the afternoon or after dinner? CRAZY ahahaha. We are weird people who love to keep it simple, that's our style.
Same for espresso shots. When we order a single cup of espresso it is implicit for what I call normal shot with 7 gr of coffee. There is no double or even triple shots of espresso for a single cup, it is just too much.
Same for food, simple cooking (even if for foreigners it doesn't look simple, it really is) simple and fresh ingredients only.
Our cappuccino is 100-125 ml of milk and a normal shot of espresso. Nothing to compare, FORTUNATELY, with those huge cup Americans use to prepare now. Triple shot and 2 300 ml of milk. It will kill me, and I am a coffee and cappuccino lover.
The 'not having it too close to lunch' makes sense, but then what about eating or drinking anything else in that 11-12 window? And also then what's the issue with having a cappuccino AFTER lunch?
@@stevendunkelman6205 as another italian (weirdly enough I'm about to get my degree in biotechnology, funny coincidence with the comment above) I can tell you that it's not a rule by any mean. I personally don't have any issues with drinking cappuccino or coffee whenever during the day ( generally a double or triple shot if I make it for myself), and I've never been "judged" for ordering a cappuccino in the afternoon lol. I think it's more of a thing in the south of italy, and for turists in general since bar and restaurant owners tend to lump in turists by nationality ( the way germans are known here to drink cappuccino during the meal, that for some unknown reason angers people in the restoration industry).
@@ssm-sf8by here in the north people drink cappuccinos any time really. You are right.
I am totally aware of the Italian desire to not experience "heaviness" as a result of a meal/drink. Perhaps this is a case of inherited wisdom delle Mamme. I am a dairy machine and do not know firsthand, but would a side effect of drinking too much milk for a lactose malabsorber be a sensation of indigestion? Thus, it could be lumped in generally with the idea of feeling heavy?
I just see so many cases in Italy where there are these rules in the kitchen that are religiously followed, but the reasoning behind them always seem a bit.... suspect. I don't doubt that there is some real core of wisdom, but no one really seems to pick at it - with Italians I find that having a critical mass of opinion trumps actual proof in many contexts. I can't tell you how many times my wife (who I met while she was doing a PhD at Imperial College) has expected me to accept the wisdom of "Everyone says..."
On the other hand, this may be a case of me being suspicious having had too many discussions about getting colds from having wet hair or the dangers of cervicale because of fans/air conditioning. ;)
I think that as well as for most of cases there is not 1 answer.
As I said before, most of Italians follow this rule. And as someone else said, it is most followed in southern Italy than in northern Italy.
About drinking for example a spritz before lunch and feeling it less heavy, it is just like it is. I mean, milk is heavy, especially because bar use whole milk. Aperitivo instead it is just few pieces of bread, pizza or salami, and a slightly alcoholic drink which "open or prepare
" the stomach for lunch.
About the rules we follow, many are just the way things should be cooked. Pasta al dente (not overcooked, it allow you to chew it better, taste it more and digest it better). Tomato sauce with fresh tomatoes and so on. I personally don't follow the "cappuccino rule". But I find it easier drinking a macchiato after lunch compared to a cappuccino. Even if our cappuccino is 100 ml of milk.
James. Maybe you won't see this, but your videos really are good. You're one of my favourite UA-camrs.
Thank you!
Couldn’t agree more!
@@jameshoffmann I heard the fart noises. From a sound engineer, kudos.
I was wearing AKG K240 Studio. They sounded like they came from me :D
@@jameshoffmann THANK YOU Actually! And no, you're not one of my favorite UA-camrs, you are my favorite UA-camr. I even had a dream meeting you in a coffee shop once and spoke to you at a table. Thank You for waking up something in me, and provoking me to go on a Coffee knowledge, experimenting rampage for the past 10 months. You're awesome.
Italians "No cuppachino after 11. It's too heavy"
Italian American restaurants: "Here's your 1 lb of pasta noodles drowned in alfredo. Would you like espresso after your 4 glasses of red wine?"
Heresy, Italians don't eat Alfredo sauce
@@pinkopat Alfredo > tomato lol
@@kdids i am so italian i've never even tried alfredo sauce, so this argument is pointless
@@pinkopat oh I wasn't trying to make an argument. Just kinda playful jesting. But actually, do ppl in Italy not eat Alfredo sauce?? Is it tomato or nothing? Because in my city here in canada there is an Italian place run by 100% Italians and their Alfredo is the best I've had anywhere in my life.
@@kdids if by Alfredo sauce, you mean that heavy cream and cheese based sauce that can drive you into a food coma: no. You aren't going to find it anywhere in Italy. But if you mean the light cheese and butter sauce that somehow became that heavy monstrosity: yes. You can find it. But outside of Rome, you'll likely find it by a different name. Fettuccini al burro (or -al triplo burro for the actual dish which was later called Fettuccini Alfredo).
Italian here, the "no cappuccino in the afternoon" thing isn't really taken as seriously as most people make it out to be. At least here in the north, might be more felt in the south.
Just don't order a cappuccino along with a pizza or we'll make fun of you forever.
Looking at you, German tourists!
What about pizza + cappuccino + Martini ?
_-_-_-_ it's good if you want to summon a demon
I‘m German and I’ll fucking do it again.
@@AB-ii8st lmao
I love that the German tourist is such a joke all around Europe. I thought it was a British thing, then found out my Danish best friend cracked jokes about them as well, and it's kind of a Scandi thing. And now I have found an Italian who also cracks jokes about German tourists. Moral of the story: Don't act like a German tourist 😄
could be part of tradition going back when refrigeration was not available and raw milk can only be served fresh in the morning
@@BlueHen123 Don't talk rot. He gives what he believes is the *likely* origin. He then supports that with facts about lactose digestion. If this is the case then there is no way Italians would have known the exact reason historically because the understanding of lactose and the problems it gives people is only very recent. None of the information is bad. He doesn't declare that his answer is definitely true, just in his opinion that's it's likely.
Steaming milk came after the ability to keep milk cold.
"raw milk can only be served fresh in the morning" - he literally said that in the video. Didn't mention refrigeration specifically but he said that the tradition may have been something to do with not being able to keep the milk fresh in hotter climates, which was the reason that people with low lactose absorbtion may have developed that way.
Mike Brady no that traces back to developing tolerance for lactose in broader genome. But what i’m saying is more concerned with technological availability in the past 100 years which may have indirectly impacted culture. Similar to the tradition of making cured meat and alot of french cuisine recipes
@@BlueHen123 yes because right now is the prime time to fly to Italy and interview every local person
Also, Italians eat gelato as a mid-afternoon snack or after dinner while walking around. Has milk just like a cap.
People dont usually eat ice cream every day
italians also eat cheese with almost every meal (especially pasta), in pesto there's cheese, actually there's some kind of grana in anything italian lol. also cheese and meat platters.. this video is really BS. meditarranean cuisine is based on diary.
@@picolete If I'm in Italy - I do. Too cold for a gelateria to be profitable in my country, we only have industrial ice-cream
@@meladversity and he already told in the video that cheeses usually have way lower to no amounts of lactose
@@meladversityCheese, especially hard cheese, has very little lactose and doesn't cause any problem for people with lactose intolerance.
sensational
Thank you!
Holy crap its Shakky Boy 🥳
I'm here because of you!
I worked for a company which was part of The Fiat Group, and have worked with many Italians. One Italian work colleague explained to me that the coffee bars, and other shops too, had to pay a considerably higher unit price for electricity in the afternoon than they paid in the morning, and as the steamer for frothing the milk for a cappuccino uses a lot of electricity they often refused to serve cappuccinos in the afternoon. The price of electricity fluctuates with demand, and the air-conditioning units have to work harder when the midday sun is out and for a few hours afterwards, and that is why the demand goes up at those times. That was all explained to me in a rather animated manner after I had suggested that the habit of no cappuccinos after midday might have something to do with the amount of flying insects which seem to wake up at midday and then head for the nearest milky drink available. Apparently cigarettes are the best way of keeping insects away from you, I must have smoked the wrong brand though because I would get lots of bites on summer evenings in Turin.
My boss from Pisa would agree. Thriftiness prevails as well as custom. To save some money on the dairy you just kept it for the mornings, it was a breakfast thing. He wouldn't shy away from cheese, yogurt, puddings, or ice cream. He is 81 and very healthy diet oriented, except for ICE CREAM of all kinds. Never causes him a spot of trouble.
@@momkatmax I'd presume that keeping a fridge for milk to stay fresh whole day would cost some money. But the steam wand? Does it really consume that much more than an espresso machine?
Not true
Enjoyed your story..
Somebody MIGHT have pulled your leg :-D
Italian here too: the ‘no cappuccino after 11am’ rule is an old say from classy people, it’s a rule of behaviors, not anything with diet. Just like you don’t drink alcohol in the morning cause it’ll make you look bad, you don’t drink cappuccino after 11am, cause the day is moving forward and you should get a wine!
Not drinking alcohol in the morning makes more sense than not drinking cappuccino in the afternoon though.
Best answer.
@@Krytern Serbian here, people love to drink rakija here, it is a 40-50% alcohol fruit brandy (mostly plum brandy) that people drink in the morning to '' warm up for the day ''
it is extremely strong and it is part of the culture, my dad has been drinking a shot of rakija in the morning for about 20 years and to me it is crazy
@@Krytern Alcohol for breakfast is a staple for many Bavarians.
Its getting drunk that is bad, not alcohol.
Im not sure about that, at least its not universal. Colombians drink coffee all day and night no problem.
As an Italian I was prepared to argue, but this actually makes a lot of sense and lines up with geographical and genetic differences. I think it’s a very rational explanation. Someone definitely did his homework.
I have to disagree with James and you, if you agree with him on the reason for no Cappuccino after 11am rule. As an Italian, are you saying Milk isn't served in any form after 11am? How about ice cream?
This was posted by someone else, but I'm more inclined to believe her reasoning as to why there's a no Cappuccino rule after 11am and that's because at the time this came about, there wasn't refrigeration to keep milk after 11am. Say a farmer milked his cows at 6am.. maybe it soured by 11am? Makes more sense to me than saying most people can tolerate 150ml of milk, and Italian Cappuccinos usually only have 100ml of milk.. and because of that, they don't drink it after 11am. WTH? If you can tolerate 150ml, what difference does it make what time you have it, when it's only 100ml?
@@crabjoe
First of all, the 11am it's not an actual "rule", but it is strange and unusual to have a cappuccino after lunchtime. The fact that milk doesn't keep without a fridge is the reason why italians (and warmer countries) use oil to cook and not butter. It sets the genetic divergence for low lactose tolerance due to availability of fresh dairy products.
Ice cream does indeed have milk in it, but again in small amounts. Also, ice cream is normally (WAS normally) served in relatively small portions, and if it's a working day, you won't see many people having ice cream in their lunch break.
Cappuccino is known to make you run to the toilet, and while it's perfectly fine to do that first thing in the morning, it's inconvenient to have your stomach and intestine rumble all day while you are at work.
Then, while the first cappuccino of the day is well within your tolerance limits, the next one already puts you into the "brown" zone. Italian routine is go to work, before going in you normally stop for a coffee/breakfast, which consists in guess what, a cappuccino and a pastry.
Cappuccino is heavy to digest, due to the low lactose tolerance of humans, and after 11am you are pretty much approaching lunchtime, you wouldn't want to spoil your appetite by having a cup of milk. Remember that italians have larger meals at lunchtime, unlike northern countries that have a quick sandwich at the desk, italian offices close for even 2 hours, allowing people to go home to eat.
A cappuccino is also considered "heavy", and after a meal (both at home or outside) you wouldn't want an extra thing to digest that will make you sleepy, you want something small and snappy like an espresso, that doesn't affect your digestion, so you're able to get up and do things, instead of being full and lethargic.
@@SimonWoodburyForget Based on what I've heard, most of the world is lactose intolerant. The only group of people that aren't are those of Northern European heritage.
Me personally, I've always hated the taste of straight milk. As a child, I was forced to have a glass every morning.
@@SimonWoodburyForget It's true that the majority of the world's population is lactose intolerant. I just googled it and they estimate is 68%. As for having lactase added to milk, maybe they do in different places, depending on the population?. Maybe not if milk isn't sold in the same volumes as it's sold in North American?
I myself have a mild case of lactose intolerance. If I eat dairy products, if say a cheese pizza, which if one of my favorite foods, if the cheese is a high quality cheese, I'm running to the rest room within 3 mins of my meal. If it was made with crap cheese, the stuff with a lot of oil, I'm perfectly fine.. I know a few others like myself with varying degrees of intolerance. Years ago, I worked with a guy that had it so bad, before he ate, he took a lactaid pill. He was scared to risk eating anything that might have lactose in it.
@@SimonWoodburyForget .. its nice that you live in your own world where everything is a lie unless you believe it. You might want to rethink this line of thinking.. give Google a try and read the articles.
BTW, Google doesn't tell you anything other than where the information is. Then its up to you to decide if you trust the article(s) you read.
Looks like James is still using his Skillshare subscription
it is free for him 😂
Care to explain this?
That was a brilliant connection James. The quality of your videos is excellent!
”Oh, that soothing coffee guy” my girlfriend just said. Keep up the interesting work I say! :)
Nahhh he doesn't even have half a million subs. He needs to change what he's doing eh!
@@mausitn everyone has their specialities, this guy fits to be "the sooting coffee guy" probably more than what you would suggest him to do
just dont bring her to any meet n greets! 😉
@@mausitn do you think famous youtubers just pop up like starbucks? It's a growing channel..
@@mariahgutierrez4481 omg this is still going 😂 here's a book for y'all *hands you SARCASM 101*
James a video on decaffeinated coffee maybe??
Yes. Or at least ways to balance sweet restaurant desserts without ruining sleeps.
yeah, that would be great.
I would love to see his approach on Swiss water vs other processing and why water is the best but also worst solvent to process decaf.
Also! Maybe an interview with The Thought Emporium about his efforts to genetically make decaf coffee.
Might be worth checking with the folks behind decafino if talking about decaf.
Great video, unsurprisingly! The only thing I'd like to add is that italians love to fancy (?) themselves as extremely delicate and fragile creatures and often end up being too apprehensive towards themselves for some weird reason, and that goes way beyond just cappuccino drinking habits. Must be because growing up there, especially in the south (though nowadays I feel it makes a lot less sense to use this distinction) many "mamme" are often overprotective and children grow up with this idea that anything could potentially hurt/kill them. It's the country with the mildest winters in Europe and yet many are always worried about "colpo di freddo" wich is basically the fear of gettig a cold, even just from a light summer breeze XD. I remember going to the beach there as a child and they would give me or my family weird looks for swimming right after finishing my "panino". Nowadays young people laugh at this things and are becoming cultural memes but many still have this attitude towards life and are pretty vocal about it, wich is even funnier, especially if you consider the fact that all this precautions are taken even by people that are heavy smokers or live a very unhealty life, but when it comes to eating they suddenly become hyper-health conscious. Never ceases to amaze me... :D
I like the scientific approach, and the hypothesis is very intriguing. However, as an Italian, non-lactose intolerant (pretty much the opposite) my very own explanation is somewhat different, while related to digestion.
Breakfast in Italy is generally light and sweet (if any food is eaten at all), so cappuccino can be perfectly suitable. During the rest of the day, however, Italians tend to consume coffee on two different occasions: right after a meal, and during a break at work.
Now, espresso is more suitable right after a meal and we all share this experience: bitterness helps better digestion.
During coffee breaks you may see Italians drinking cappuccino anyway, but for what concerns me, since I needed "a break", the kick of the espresso is a requirement.
Is there any truth to lactose intolerance being wide spread in Italy? As a European, I believe it's established that most Europeans are lactose tolerant. As we've been herding kettle for thousands of years here.
@@MariusWM actually it is the opposite. Lactose malabsorbtion is least common in people of European decent (which was the reason stupid medias at one point advertised drinking milk as a neo nazi hobby). You can read more about that on Wikipedia.
I'll go with the Italian's explanation. 😎👍👍
It is definitely related to the tradition of drinking something bitter, like a good "amaro", after a large meal to help the digestion while a sweeter drink like a cappuccino would not do (and make digestion even harder). Breakfast in most of Italy is light and sweet, so a cappuccino fits in very well, whereas usually a lunch isn't sweet, and quite heavy (on carbs especially).
A coffee, and a strong one at that, is reputed to help in kicking away the "carbs crash" after lunch and be back at work without feeling sleepy. A cappuccino won't do it as well (not in actual caffeine content but more in feeling of intensity).
You can have your cappuccino with lactose free milk.
"Don't drink coffee after 4PM
Portuguese : Drink coffee at 11PM"
On weekdays my last coffee is at 3:30pm but you better believe on Friday night I'll have one at 8pm after dinner cause it doesn't matter when I get up on Saturday morning
Same for Spain.
Don't the Portuguese stay up rather late compared with areas that avoid drinking coffee after 4pm?
That’s for sure!
@@SmallSpoonBrigade Yeah perhaps that's why. But I think that the mane reason is that we often drink a coffee after dinner, which can finish pretty late since we start eating at 9 or even 10PM during the summer.
Very interesting video! However, as a French-Italian who happily switches between cappuccino and café au lait, I like to think it's another example of totally arbitrary rule we Italians have like "you don't use cream sauce with that kind of pasta", "you only use dry pasta in this recipe" or "you can eat these two things separated in the same meal, but you can never put them together in the same dish" 😂
@mipmipmipmipmip Oh they use Chicken in Italy in dishes, trust me but they are using spices on the chicken so as to not have bland meal. How you cook the chicken for Italian dishes makes a big difference in the meal.
As an Italian lad myself I 100% agree, I think old school Italians have nonsensical rules abt food that I'll never fully grasp. Between Italian millennials anything goes tho
All cultures have their norms and they don't all make sense in today's context. We have a lot more options now so we can reinvent rules, e.g. have a cappuccino with oat milk.
Only reason because it feels correct and feels better.
From a doctor's point of view, that was a very nice review of the basic pathology and epidemiology of lactose malabsorption due to lactase deficiency! Thank you for that and for the beautiful content you create :)
Even more than his encyclopedic knowledge of all things coffee, I am always astonished by James' remarkable ability to succinctly and clearly relay information to the audience and in the best formulation and choice of words.
Wow I learned so much so fast!! James clearly did his research, and presented it with such fluency. 10/10 thank you James!
Came for the coffee, stayed for the science. Great video!
*me drinking a cappuccino at 10:30 AM* "just in time"
But that is still after yesterday's 11am.
@@testaccount8921 But its before infinitely many tomorrows' 11ams. The number of yesterdays' 11ams are finite
@@feronanthus9756 But scientists have found evidence supporting the big bang theory. Or are you saying you believe the universe is cyclical? If so that means the number of tomorrows are also infinite...
My guess was that: Milk is collected in the morning, and goes off quickly in hot Italian weather. So they only have milk in the morning while it was still fresh. (Before fridges were common)
However I am not a 19th-20th century Italian dairy farmer, so I don't know when they were milking their cows.
Based on what he said about the amount of milk in the Italian cappuccino, what difference is it going to make what time they have it? Your reasoning for the 11am rule sounds more logical to me.
@@crabjoe the difference is that everybody wants to have a cup of coffee in the morning, but they can't have more than one so they "strategically" position it at 11AM which is technically still morning, but closer to the middle of the day (that's my take at least)
@@harier64 science has shown coffee for "getting you more energy" is more effective around 10 or so, than first thing in the morning.
I am pretty certain it is both a cow milking thing and a gut thing, as someone lactose intolerant. If you have a cappuccino as late breakfast, the only thing you risk in your guts if you get diarrhoea is food you already thoroughly digested. Coffee makes you poop anyway too. If you drink milk later you're going to lose valuable nutrients you never actually got a chance to absorb, making you feel worse off and sleep poorly.
@@Call-me-Al maybe you're right, one thing I know for certain is that if I had 1 cup of coffee a day that would be around 10-11
I've seen this vid on my recommended list for at least a year, and now I've finally watched it. Pleasing content yet again.
That was so beautifully put, clearly articulated and so a sign of the changing times. Back in the day, some 15-20 years ago I used to sell food intolerance tests.i remember being round at my sister’s house, she was a junior doctor at the time with two house guests who were also both medics. I was asked what I did for a living and upon sharing a couple of stories I was met “Don’t go bringing any of that shit to us mate, we’re gastroenterologists.” So, thank you James for a lovely, simple explanation of a condition most encounter but few understand.
Honestly as an Italian it just feels weird to drink cappuccino in the evening because we usually think of it as something for breakfast. For most of us it's just like the idea of eating cereal for lunch/dinner. It's just...weird.
Like eating pasta for breakfast 😬
Yes!! It's a morning thing!
A lot of that is how you grow up. When I lived overseas, I had to get used to some pretty weird breakfast foods. Well, weird from my point of view, but normal for most Chinese. Congee was probably the one that was closest to something that I'd consider a breakfast food. But, there'd be noodles and steamed buns and bean curds. Finding out that the barbecue pork stuffed buns that I'd been getting in the US were actually a breakfast food was a bit of a shocker.
Cereal for lunch is awesome!
Brinners are awesome, what are you talking about
Ah I’d always heard lactose intolerance explained as a particularly Asian trait, never an Italian one! This is so enlightening, thank you. I’ve stuck with (blessed) oat milk since I work in a quiet environment, but now I feel emboldened to experiment with amounts. I’ve always found steamed milk to be kinder on the guts than cold milk though.
I'm Asian and I'm glad my malabsorption is moderate. I'll take that 120ml milk limit any time of the day accompanied by some form of pastry. But espresso? Anytime! 😍
@@karenbondechek Im asian too and its wild how much I drink milk.
It's mostly a southern Italian trait. I'm from the north and most people here are lactose tolerant
Yea. My doctor in America told me you are from subcontinent. People over there are lactose intolerant. Because people generation after generation could not get milk. I told him nonsense. I am from Punjab. Where mothers give you a big glass of yogurt drink as you wake and a big glass of milk as are about to sleeep and whole day in the villages people eat and drink yogurt and lassi. Curries all are made with yogurt in them. Our fridges never run out of butter. I don’t knew where these western doctors got this idea that only cold area people can consume dairy. And there is some arbitrary line across the northern hemisphere. What piece of crock.
Balle balle bhaiyya. I completely agree
Your videos are just so engrossing James, I honestly never expected to love them as much as I do now when I first happened upon your channel. The soft speech, the handy and interesting information and the engaging storytelling make for quite an excellent experience.
The reason is that coffee in Italy has a function (actually more than one, that's why we love it) in everyday life. Espresso is used to improve digestion after lunch, leaving a more 'neutral' aftertaste in your mouth. Ending lunch with milk would have the opposite effect, causing a heavier breath and uneasy digestion. We also have espresso after dinner and mostly for the same reasons. It's allowed to have an 'amaro' (called 'the coffee killer') after coffee because alcohol helps with digestion as well. A cappuccino or caffelatte (latte) is what you would have for breakfast because until lunch there are no meals in between, so a more substantial drink is auspicable to keep you going. In Italy every 'food rule' is there to maximise the pleasure, that's another reason why we only drink single shots, more often :D
Raffaele Caroppo
Thank you for your insight. And a reminder to truly enjoy.
What do Italians tend to think about filter coffee, or Americano?
@@val26874 It's becoming an option in cafes but I personally don't know any Italian drinking drip coffee, sometimes addressed as 'dirty water' lol. The coffee flavour of an Americano is generally perceived as too diluted and with too much caffeine, so not appealing.
Well, instead of actually doing "caffé filtro", many restaurants and cafes simply pour you a shot in a cappuccino cup and serve it with some hot water on the side so that's most likely the culprit of making the coffee taste like "watered down dirt water". The greatest majority of restaurants and cafes only have espresso machines so they try to accomodate that way.
@@cdgonepotatoes4219 That is actually the definition of "caffè americano" in Italy: a single or double shot of espresso in a cappuccino cup and some hot water poured into it. In some coffee places the water is served on the side, so you can pour by yourself the quantity you prefer. This is of course very different from actual American coffee, that for Italians is more like a very strong, warming and tasty tea. Especially during Winter, it is becoming quite common in large northern cities thanks to McCafés and Starbucks or similar venues.
As many already said, is more a cultural thing, since cappuccino and brioche are a classic breakfast.
If you ask for a cappuccino after a meal it's like eating a full meal and then asking for egg bacon and beans as a dessert. Just weird.
It's okay for an afternoon snack tho, but it must far from lunch or dinner.
May I introduce, the all day breakfast
Exactly! cappuccino isn' t usually drank after lunch or dinner, but I' ve never ever heard of no cappuccino after 11 am ( i' m Italian). Many drink cappuccino as an afernoon break for example and I drink at 5 pm when I finish working
È VITATO, CI SONO DELLE LEGGI, LA NOSTRA COSTITUZIONE PARLA CHIARISSIMO!
Seriously, in Italy cappuccino is a breakfast drink, served with a cornetto (croissant) or biscotti (cookies). Your hypothesis about the origin of this tradition is really interesting, but I have a stronger explanation: fresh milk has been delivered in the morning for ages, we gradually developed a habit that became tradition.
We also eat tons of cheese.
The depth and breadth of your knowledge on all subjects related to coffee is incredible.
Had some great discussions about this with my Italian colleagues, they felt horrible for us and told all kind of anecdotes about this. But in the end they needed to admit that it didn't make sense to not drink milk after 11, but eat mozzerella or burrata with lunch or diner.
It was funny as we did together a research on the origin of the cappucino. And how they almost 'died' of needing to admit that the origin comes from Austria where they had Kapuziner Coffee. The Italians called the monks Cappucini. And because of the white and brown clothing they wore the coffee became named after that. And it widely became know as cappucino as in Italy they invented the industrialization te eventually the perfection of coffee how we know it nowadays. With a kettle, and a lever to pressure hot water to a cup with freshgrinded coffee, and steampressure to froth the milk.
My best friend is Italian. I was taught this very important point when I stayed with his family in Reggio di Calabria. Got some very odd looks in the coffee bars when I ordered cappuccino in the afternoon.
Having lived in Spain for some time the traditions are similar here. Except they have a cafe con leche in the morning and then in the afternoon will go for a cortado or cafe solo (espresso). The reasoning I have heard is that it is heavier and therefore compliments a light breakfast better than a post lunch pick me up.
Interestingly, when I lived in Italy the majority of people would actually just drink espressos all day. Even in the morning. Not so many went for the cappuccino. We would meet at the coffee bar before work and choke back an espresso followed by a shot of water and then huddle into the office, but this could have been a time thing I guess
The only person I enjoy watching/hearing ads from!
James's videos have been one of my favourite things of lockdown.
Honestly, I think they've helped me stay sane.
“Butter eaters of the north and oil eaters of the south” - so mind blown 🤯!
@@SimonWoodburyForget depends on what you're using it for. If you're frying an egg, you use either butter or olive oil. We don't use that vegetable shortening crap of yours though in the Mediterranean
@@SimonWoodburyForget they're categorized as fats and can be used for frying foods. That's where the similarities end. We DO NOT use vegetable shortening or seed oils in our cooking. There are no benefits.
Well.... cow pastures in the north... olive groves in the south. Makes total sense.
even the oil eaters tend to like butter
#teamOil
I’ve just discovered your channel. I love how soothing and calming your voice is. You’re up there with the soothing voice greats like Mr. Rogers, Bob Ross, and Morgan Freeman. 😊
After having my first and probably only bistecca Fiorentina, the restaurant asked me if I’d like any coffee with my dessert. I said sure, I’d like a cappuccino. This was a huge mistake, and they laughed at me for a solid minute. Then when I jokingly asked why they’d serve cheesecake for dessert if dairy was bad after 11, I got some very angry stares by the owner.
Still a 10/10 experience, best steak of my life.
I got a very nasty look once when I asked for an espresso while I waited for my meal. After ok. Before no no.
Also, many Italians use "coffee" synonymous with Espresso. So your answer might not only have been ill-timed but also nonsensical to them.
Yeah, it seems like that's the other half of this. There are social standards for certain gatherings and establishments in certain countries that are good to know about and flout only after consideration. This is mainly a defense against that one person you know who insists that your 3pm latte from a cafe in Ohio is Doing It Wrong because they read something on the internet once.
Snobby.
Ryan, you must've been typing your comment when James noted that cheese has 5% of the lactose milk has. Besides, who wants cheesecake after a bistecca fiorentina?
My wife, a northern Italian, says this video should be titled,"why southern italians can't handle their milk." They literally eat salami and polenta covered in fresh cream before they go skiing. And cappuccinos ARE much bigger than that in the north.
Fresh cream has a very low lactose content.
I’m originally from northern Italy and the cappuccinos you get there are usually quite small compared to your average cappuccinos in the UK or US - I’d say they are closer to a flat white in size.
@@francirose89 confirmo
I went to a small local osteria in Florence a couple of summers back. The waiter explained to us that you shouldn't drink cappuccino after 11 am, because of the sun in the afternoon. He told us that the heat of the sun can upset the milk in your stomach and make the cappuccino feel heavy on your stomach when walking in the sun during the rest of the day.
Espresso and Italian heat is certainly a combination I absolutely love
Someone should tell him about the human body's internal temperature.
😂🤪
questo è una delle cose più italiane che abbia mai sentito
Glucose and Galactose sound like a pair of 80s cartoon villains.
"Holy Snapping Jacket-Buttons, Batman! Galactose has stolen the Ultimate Space Mallet!"
In fact there is a Galactus, the eater of worlds and a well known foe in Marvel Universe. Maybe they spell it wrong and should be Galactose 🤔😋🤣
Coming to a theater near you
Last time I was in Italy I asked a local "If you stop drinking cappuccino after breakfast because of difficulty digesting milk, why is it that you can eat gelato all day long?" She just grinned and, using her hands, gave me the best explanation I ever heard. She said "We do it... because we do it."
"using her hands" I laughed too loud at this. XD
True Italian Icecream is made with eggs, not so much milk
cream has less lactose than milk
Was going to say the same thing. Cheese, gelato, etc... It’s not logic, it’s tradition.
Another explanation is that the higher fat content in gelato slows digestion, which means that the lactose reaches the gut more slowly and does not produce a whole bunch of gas/discomfort all at once. For the same reason, people who are lactose sensitive tend to have a better time eating ice cream than drinking a glass of milk
Of all my weird little mutations, continuing to produce lactase well into adulthood is far and away my favorite
Hear, hear!
Mines the extra penis
Definitely one of my favorites too (especially since a different weirdness has me craving a glass of milk after working out in the hot garden).
Watching this while my Mexican mother offers me coffee at 8pm
I like midnight coffees
I guess I’m Italian at heart! I’ve been following that rule for a long time, with some exceptions of course! Love coffee and love learning about all aspects of coffee through your channel! ✨
I was told in Italy that actually they don’t drink milky coffees later because espresso after meals can accelerate and support digestion as it increases vascularity in the stomach. While milky drinks slow it down. Also my guess is that the Mediterranean breakfast is sweet like one croissant with a milky so sweet hot drink like coffee. That’s why they prefer cappuccino in the morning. I liked your explanation very much too, there might be an observation by people during centuries behind it. Very interesting topic. 👏
slow it down. you are right!
Also, there seems to be some digestion issue with milk + coffee that coffee or milk alone don't have. I used to get cappuccino to feel satiated for longer, and to slow down the coffee adsorbtion. It works decently well.
Yeah that's accurate, I would say.
Meanwhile me: Drinks double sized cappuccino at any time of day. Still falls asleep as soon as I hit the bed.
But do you stay asleep? I used to do the same, but got to the point where I was waking up fully wired at 3am.
@@kantarjiev Yeahh, coffee doesn't really do much for me, besides being delicious. I only drink once per day so I don't think it's addiction either.
Meanwhile, they are eating tons of cheese (I know it’s different, but what about ricotta), ice cream, cream sauces, ..
I want to see James try the Keto diet "Buttered coffee". Should be interesting.
I'm guessing that due to his interest in all things coffee, he likely already has and maybe he isn't mentioning it because he holds it in similar esteem to ColdBrew
It’s not something that originated with the keto diet
@@RampagingPixie yeah but keto popularised it
@@bengardner3408 I bet you buy foods branded as keto lol I wasnt trying a keto diet, but recently, out of curiosity, I put a thin slice of butter on top of my grounds in my pour over, after the blooming phase. It was great. It was smoother, creamier, and brought out the flavors of my coffee.
@@SimonWoodburyForget people were on the keto diet before it had a name
Hi James, I greatly enjoy all your videos for their depth and value, but on this one my friend, you out did yourself! Amazing the amount of knowledge, facts, and explanations you give us! Thanks for all your hard work bringing us these videos!
Growing up one of my best friends was Italian, the dad explain to me, that the only time they would have cappuccinos is in the morning, because it helpsto fill you up and gives you energy, but for the rest of the day you would drink espresso because you don't need to fill up anymore you just simply want to enjoy the coffee and get the boost that the coffee gets you.
Netflix is gonna pick you up for something some day. Mark my words. You’ve got a vibe for everybody, man. Thanks for even thinking to make this video, didn’t know it was a thing.
Recently stumbled across this man's channel and have been hooked ever since. Truly amazing content.
This is making me rethink my decision to have cornflakes at 10pm
Hey, if it's swelteringly hot at dinnertime, a bowl of cereal with ice cold milk hits the spot pretty nicely.
live life on the edge
I found out pretty early in life that I'm not lactose intolerant in the slightest... yet coffee with milk still often makes me feel a bit off. No idea why. I'm tempted by a bowl of cornflakes now, though....
I just had a bowl of milk and cereal at midnight lol
Tom Smith caffeine itself has effects on your digestion mate
My Italian professor in college said he couldn't drink coffee because it made his heart palpitate... he also smoked about 3 packs a day! Allora! 🇮🇹
I am Scandinavian. Our trad food contains milk and cream. When I grew up, I heard every now and then that Scandinavians were the only culture that wasn't lactose intolerant due drinking milk as a long tradition.
I'm grateful that you made it through the video without saying "fart".
Hahaha fart
Hahahaha fart
Very interesting! But I would like it more with the references and sources to the studies that you mention. I like to check sources, and me being Spanish, I would like to see if there are any results about Spain.
RIght, I was having a good laugh about this channel yesterday. Turns out, it could be my new favorite channel.
I went to Italy with the Navy and person from the uso came to tell us about local customs. One was this rule about cappuccino, because it was the'90s drink of choice in the US. The other thing that stuck in my head was use your thumb to say you wanted one of something. If you used your pointer finger you will probably get two.
Same for France the rule applies as well, reasons why if you have ever seen Tour De France or Giro De Italia, they use the thumb as the one during the countdown for the individual time trials and stage starts.
"drink what you want, when you want in Italy" - except when the barista shames you for ordering cappuccino after 11am, and hang their head like a disappointed parent.
That's when you order a second to spite them
Shames you for ordering it but yet they're open for business to take the order.
Loool this is true 🤣🤣🤣
@@3Dant Yup! I live in Italy and when I'm too annoyed by the rules, I break them in spite.
This matches up exactly with my experiences…. Born half Italian and at approx. 21 years of age, I began to experience stomach distress. It got progressively worse and every doctor wanted to test for lactose malabsorbtion, but I told them, “That can’t be it! I drink milk like you breath air”! Anyways, that was it and it was like losing the greatest love of my life. Over a year of struggling to get used to “NO MILK”. I use a splash of heavy whipping cream in my coffee. It has less than .01% of lactose in it naturally. Zero issues. Thanks for the informative video!
…try ORGANIC, RAW milk from GRASS FED COWS. (unpasteurized and non homogenized)
@@poolahpot still has lactose lol
and pasteurization is literally to clean it? bruh
@@poolahpot In fairness, I did try RAW, grass fed milk. I was living in upstate New York at the time and there was a dairy where you could leave a dollar and fill up with 1 gal of milk from the tanks before they were ever pumped out and taken to processing. It was the honor system and I’d fill up two half gallon old school glass milk jugs. By morning, they’d separate into about half milk fat and milk. It was sooo delicious! My stomach went wild! My problems became the worst they ever did. That’s what led to the doctor visit on a morning when I hadn’t eaten and finally getting the subsequent lactose test. For me, the only difference that made was the most extreme symptoms to date. I’ve become accustomed to it now that it’s 40 yrs later and with lactose free milk, I can have all I want.
Thank you. I love coffee and milk but it kills me. Heavy cream it is, or Lactaid.
@@bobchevallier8456 Yep, same here. I enjoyed half&half, but after a few days, I’d start to react…. I avoided Heavy Whipping Cream because I thought it had to be worse. Then I read some documentation about how it has less than .01% of lactose sugars in it. Made sense since it’s all milk FATS, not sugars. Been using it with zero issues. Costco Horizon Organic is a pretty good deal and it lasts a long time. Good luck!
All I can think of is Anchorman saying “Milk was a baaaaad choice.”
As a lactose intolerant since birth and overall very allergic person, thank you for this very informative video, there still is a lot of people that thinks we're just being fuzzy (tell that to my poor mum when she was trying to breast feed me as a baby and I kept throwing up the Exorcist style)
lol .... funny story.
Super interesting ... when I'm in Italy, I've always been afraid to order a cappuccino in the afternoon because of the comments I would get (my wife, on the other hand, orders away, and couldn't care less!). I always thought it was just one of those customs with a reason lost to history, but this makes SO MUCH sense ... thank you! :-)
Me, who have read World Atlas of Coffee: I know this! Lactose intolera-
James: Lactose malabsorption
Me: *Surprised pikachu face*
Ditto.
And here I am at 11pm watching this drinking a Latte.
same
What a beautiful script. Loved this video. Good job.
I love this explanation, it provides insights of a possible root cause for this 11am rule. Obviously now there are also cultural factors that kicked in. I am not lactose intollerant but for me drinking cappuccino in the afternoon is unconcievable. It reminds me of those turists traps in Rome's city centers with waiters grabbing customers from the pavement; there you can see a constant presence of cappuccini for lunch, aperitivo, dinner; you can also see people eating at 4pm (ewwwww) and pizzas with all kind of crap on top.
James, you should do a review of different kinds of milk (almond, oat, coconut, etc) and their maridation with coffee!
Maridation ?
I'm italian and I drink cappuccino whenever I want and I surely have nothing against tourists ordering cappuccinos in my bar after lunch.
Nice of you trying to give part of the reasons to intolerance to lactose, but the truth is that sometimes culture can be intollerant to other's habits.
why does this guy look like a cup of coffee
coffee is not as grumpy
Yuo are what you eat and drink
Why then is gelato in the afternoon so normal, especially on a hot day? I'm thinking it is cultural, not biological.
Maybe they are sorbets?
@@Oakleaf700 milk-based ice cream is the norm.
Italian here, the answer has already been mentioned in another comments and it's much simpler than this video makes it to be: cappuccino is just too big as a beverage to drink at the end of a meal or as a 2min break in the afternoo (wich is the meaning of a normal coffe)
@@giovannigiorgio6406 Ah, that makes sense...If I am hungry, a Cappucino is almost like a meal in itself.
I never crave one after eating. 👍
In Italy you drink coffe everyday and multiple times a day; not the same with ice cream. Ice cream is eaten just sometimes and it is usually considered an exception, so the “negative consequences” (filling and heaviness) of an ice cream are tolerated because they are not an habits (in my family sometimes we even skip a meal if we had an ice cream). On the contrary coffe assumption is an habits in Italy, so this “rule” Is born naturally based on the experience of drinking constantly beverage based on coffe (which lead to prefers heavy coffee beverage, like cappuccino, in the morning since Italian breakfast is quite light and lighter coffe drink after the noon since lunch and dinner are instead really filling meals).
Subscribed due to speaking so calmly, eloquently and with that SERXY accent
Many "lactose" intolerants can actually still drink real milk by simply making the switch from A1 casein protein dairy to A2 beta casein, such as Desi milk, A2 bred dairy cows, goat milk, etc.
Nope, nope, nope. If I have goat’s cheese, I’ll be doubled over in pain and running to the toilet. The type of protein in dairy doesn’t have anything to do with the amount of lactose.
@@TheLoopyTiger that's why I had lactose in quotes. Truly lactose intolerant people still need to avoid anything with lactose, but there is a large number of people that have mistakenly attributed lactose intolerance as the cause of their milk-related digestive issues, when in reality it is the inflammatory a1 protein.
I have family and friends in Rome and every time I evoked the "no cappuccino in the afternoon" they all systematically answered "tu fai come ti pare", "you do as you wish". I think the rule is considered dated by younger italians and maintained mostly by pedantic purists that like to mock tourists having cappuccino for dinner (which you should if you want, fai come ti pare).
From now on, this will be my reference video for explaining lactose digestion to others. Perfect.
For 32 years of my life I'd feel horribly sick every morning.
Someone suggested I cut out dairy like yogurt and milk.
Bam, gone instantly. Cheapest health fix ever. I hope more people watch this video and don't suffer as I did for so long!
Italy’s all day (into late night) obsession with gelato kind of shoots this theory in the foot, no?
Interestingly, in Sicily a favored desert is granita, which is more of a shaved ice and has no milk.
Also in Sicily they have gelato for breakfast
The milk in ice cream/gelato products is heated so guessing the lactose is changed in the same way it is in cheese.
taste_testa is that gelato or granita? I’ve seen it as granita with bread for breakfast.
SezShares
nope. while yes, heating milk for longer time somewhat breaks down lactose, it’s *not enough* for most lactose intolerant people.
Bro the voice quality is amazing
I lived in Italy for 5 years, even though this is mostly true, I have went out to my local bar to have a cappuccino or cafe latte with my Italian/Roman friends quite a few times in the afternoon
Hi, I’m Italian. What you’re saying is absolutely true, even though I think that the reason why we don’t drink coffee after lunch time is because we usually drink coffee to sort of wrap-up a meal (and cappuccino does’t seem the best option since it’s not bitter enough) or to take a break and it’s more kind of an habit than a reason. Besides, it’s easier to make coffee at home than cappuccino, so this habit of taking a coffee more often affects the choice we make in a bar. Another reason could be that cappuccino is, 9 times out of 10, taken with a croissant, so it seems weird to have a cappuccino alone
You shouldn't drink coffee before or after a meal. It diminishes the amount of iron you will absorb from the meal
Lucas Milagre Tavares Ferreira come on, are you serious? Do you really think that 10 g of espresso make SIGNIFICANTLY the difference. Eat a healthy diet and enjoy a cup of coffee
@@ferraraxx96 This amount does make a difference. But just wait one hour after lunch and it will be ok.
Lucas Milagre Tavares Ferreira Could you please link some studies about this topic?
@@ferraraxx96 There are plenty. This is well understood. Check this reference one I found just now on the National Library of Medicine: academic.oup.com/ajcn/article-abstract/37/3/416/4690726. Or maybe this one (newer one) ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6165914/
Great explanations of coffee and lactose. Thank you!
Being Italian, really, really badly at absorbing lactose and loving cappuccino I'm happy to see more and more coffee shops, bar and others using lactose free milk so that I can enjoy my 4PM cappuccino (and my 7AM too) with no major inconvinience. I do make them lactose free at home too, the only issue is on the sweetness level of lactos free milk vs normal milk with the first being perceived as sweeter
I wonder what do you think of oat milk? I personally gotten to liking oat milk more than I do regular milk. Also interesting thing is that because lactose is sugar however doesn't taste as sweet as regular sugar it is possible to achieve equal level of sweetness to regular lactose milk by adding half the sugar content to oat milk and at equal amount of sugar to milk it feels way sweeter.
I've been to Italy and people do order latte and cappuccino in the afternoon just not very often. Many who do so are on shift work so the first coffee of the day has milk and that's it. If you wake up at Noon because you work at 3-4 PM in the afternoon till midnight then you're on a different clock that most people who do correctly stop drinking milk-based espresso in the AM.
Exactly! I' m Italian and I drink cappuccino in the afternoon and many Italian friends of mine do. Only we just don' t drink after main meals
Socially so useful! Thank you, from a dairy-rich heritage.
As an owner and breeder of farm animals, I can actually share that I have goats and have owned cows that happily drink milk. While this is a discouraged activity, because farmers have "better" purposes for milk, it is a pretty frequent occurrence on dairies.
As a former vet tech and as a dairy producer, I know many cats, dogs, and pigs also drink milk. In fact, if you get a chance to get milk raised pork, try it and see if you agree that it is a moister, fattier, and somehow smoother meat. While some of these animals do experience problems with lactose malabsorption, and thus why vets now discourage people from offering saucers of milk to cats, if raised on milk, there do seem to be fewer problems, and we do know that some of these animals do continue to produce lactase well into adulthood.
(I have also known some exotic species to drink milk well into adulthood, but those are more rare than the other examples I cited.)
While 1 in 100 or fewer dairy animals actively seek out milk as adults, that is a large enough number for me to say that humans are not the only mammal that does this.
Just thought I should comment and be nitpicky as a likely rarer dairy producer/ vet med/ researcher viewer, as I assume it will be an unlikely perspective.
With all due respect it seems Janes' point is that the natural state of mamilia is never tasting milk after being weaned.
@@danjv Would a deer in the woods nursing on itself not be "in it's natural state"? Feral cats and dogs and other species commonly considered as wild are caught self nursing or nursing well into adulthood, and not always from mom.
Many animals will "steal" milk from bos taurus and bos indicus and other ruminants and ungulates.
While the most common place for a human to note this behavior is a dary farm, this is not entirely uncommon behavior in the wild.
Several years ago, there was a debate about whether a troop of monkeys that routinely, over multiple generations nursed from cattle could be said to be in a symbiotic relationship, or were merely opportunistic. (They provided some pest control and grooming.) That article tried to claim they had found the "only other mammal" that drank milk into adulthood. The response was huge from biologists citing examples from their chosen species. My favorite was a dolphin researcher who said (loosely) she wasn't sure if it should be labelled as a kink since it appeared to sometimes take a role in foreplay.
Humans love to think we have finally found the thing that makes us unique, but one of the few ways I think we might be, is how frequently our ideas of uniqueness are proven wrong. :) Drinking milk, even that of other species, well into adulthood, isn't one of them.