Amazing how they’re complaining about a DA in a place they don’t live where retail stores are staying closed due to the amount of theft. Almost like you guys are pandering. How about leaving the politics out of it and just doing the stuff you’re good at, thanks.
You can also do this with soil. As a millennial, this is how I plan to become a home owner. I have several bags of land I have acquired in this manner. Eventually I'll be able to build a house on it.
The only downside is, famous bricks and regular bricks look mostly the same, so don't go stealing from the Great Wall or Disneyland, it's extra work for the same lump of forged clay.
Belgian here. A few word from someone who was near the action: - People in the US or elsewhere may not completely grasp what a big football match like this used to represent for a city. It was basically a siege. Roaming hooligans, looting, sacking any drinking establishment, fighting in the streets, ... the works. Local residents did not linger outside on those days. And they would be washing the piss off their facades the next day. Belgium sorta had two police forces at the time, police (the common version) and the gendarmerie (a more militarised thing, created by... revolutionary France, way back when). Of course the two agencies were full of contempt for each other, worked their own way, on their own radio frequencies, and barely coordinated. E.g. the police liaison to the gendarmerie HQ was basically locked in a separate room there and kept out of the loop during the whole thing. Each force was policing one half of the stadium, not knowing what the other was doing. Also, they both disregarded the advice of British/German/Italian police attachés that had a better grasp on just how fucked up hooligans truly are. About the ticketing: that zone of 'neutrals' was mostly full of actual Italians, not Belgian-Italians. Many reports indicate that the mafia bought most of those tickets ahead of time and resold them in Italy for a hefty profit. So yeah, two belligerent sides next to each other, separated by a chicken fence. Once shit started going down at the stadium, law enforcement decided that the nutjobs inside the stadium were less of a problem since they had been frisked and had a football match to look at. So it was decided to move most of the uniforms out of the stadium to help out with the fighting outside where there's straight up medieval warfare shit going on. Some English dude with a megaphone coordinates a volley of empty beer bottles before leading a charge of hundreds of hooligans against a few gendarmes who scatter instantly, letting hundreds of armed belligerent drunks inside. Right as most police is getting outside. To top it all up, police radio equipment starts failing left and right, batteries dying out after a full day of intensive use since the city has been under siege since early morning. After the dying started, most responders were too shocked to do their jobs properly. The paramedics who did try to tend to the wounded inside got bombarded with stones and bottles like in a warzone. Now the paramedics had just introduced a new system of triage: a little necklace thing with sheets of green, yellow, red and black paper. The idea was to put the sheet of the appropriate color on top so that you could keep track of lightly injured/heavily injured/dead etc. Of course the wounded and their families figured it out and changed which color sheet they had to red so they'd get tended to. There's a story of like 8 separate attempts to CPR a dead woman because the family kept turning the sheet from black to red. After the initial daze, medical services really kicked into gear and did an excellent job, considering. All the while an emergency crisis meeting of high-flying officials from police, gendarmerie, firefighters, governors, etc etc was underway at the firefighters' HQ. The mayor of Brussels, some guy with heavy aphasia and maybe an alcohol problem allegedly started the meeting with 'welcome to city hall!' Then the more capable people present decided that they absolutely had to let the match play because they simply did not have the manpower to restore order should every Italian and English supporter decide to find another way of entertaining themselves. We're talking tens of thousands of supporters, so fair point I guess? They kept the word from getting out and marshalled forces in the meantime. The political fallout and blame games that followed were absolutely digusting too. TLDR: Belgian authorities fucked up. Big time.
Sieges are still a thing today, at least here in Amsterdam. Luckily we have corraling options for the animals and give out lifetime stadium bans with zero tolerance. Still, when the fascists* come to watch Ajax-Feyenoord (Amsterdam-Rotterdam respectively) play they still manage to riot. And any congregation of Ajax fans leads to central Amsterdam getting completely trashed, whether they win or lose, celebrate or "mourn" another doesn't-fucking-matter-championship. And they send credible death-threats to the mayor and other public officials for daring to police them. *And yes I call them fascists, Ajax fans have chants cheering the Rotterdam bombardment and both fanbases do anti-semetic ones. And of course the rascism against players. Fascists. Fuck all footbal fans, no exceptions.
What I find even more amazing is that *Luxembourg* (population 11) also used to have a separate police and gendarmerie. Those Napoleonic institutions really stuck. (Like how almost every Commonwealth country has kept many weird English common law institutions/concepts/rules.)
@@ramirorybczuk9100 Different breed of people in the 80's...it was a war mindset back then all working class and all young males their were some real sickos back then . For the English the worst of it died out at Euro 2000...they were running Germans all over Charleroi and threatened with being expelled from the tournament...we starting giving hooligan banning orders after that .... English hooligans haven't really been that bad since early 2000's
I think Liam is on to something. In the U.S., Pittsburgh's would-be hooligans can't just casually travel 600 km across the state in large numbers to fight Philadelphia's would-be hooligans, for instance. It's too expensive and time-consuming. So, instead, sportsball hooligans just burn down their own city when their team wins a game.
It also explains the French and Spanish hooliganism as increasingly a home game rioting problem despite high-speed rail as Marseille to Rennes would be a convoluted route. So if something annoys a Rennes fan about Marseille, they'll wait for when Marseille next visits Rennes. France is the size of Texas and the population has an empty diagonal with the exception of Toulouse, Pau, and Bayonne is about as densely populated as Kansas from the Belgian border to Irun/Bayonne. Spain has more high-speed rail, but it's all hub and spoke with the hub being Madrid which means the hooligans are localized to where Basque clubs (Osasuna, Eibar, Real Sociedad, and Athletic Club) or Andulusian clubs usual found in Sevilla. Madrid teams are subject to hatred depending on the fan politics (Real Betis fans would hate left wing Vallecano fans) or Basque clubs hating Real Madrid (Real Madrid being Franco's favorite and Basques being center left for the most part at worst)
I remember Newcastle fans wrecking London for two years straight after FA Cup finals. By the time you get home, you're not mad any more so you tip over the first phone box you get your eyes on.
Saturday Morning crew rise up. Everyone get a big bowl of cereal and sit as a close to the Screen as possible. It’s Saturday morning cartoon time with our parasocial podcast friends.
"Lighthouses" would be an EXCELLENT Halloween special. The inherently cursed nature of something so vital to humanity's early expansion - which was in and of itself - a cursed process which persists today. A nice foundation from which to frame the individual accounts. So much horrifically wacky shit's gone down at lighthouses, the dozen or so soldiers that got swept away in a storm off the Alaskan coast in the late 40's, a multitude of anecdotes of keepers disappearing tending light along the British Isles in the 19th century. That time Robert Pattinson banged a weird fish vagina. You have the widespread enterprise of "Wrecking" - using a decoy light to fool a ship into running aground so you can waylay it and take its cargo, could touch on the more notably disastrous instances of the practice. Different types of lighthouse constructions, pros & cons, ancient lighthouse bs. It's a meaty topic.
Never heard of that lighthouse in Alaska before. For anyone else unfamiliar with it and interested, look up Scotch Cap Light. Five people got killed by a tsunami on April Fool's Day, 1946.
Oh god, I recently received a warning on another site and got my comment deleted for "hate speech" after jokingly referencing the Jewish space laser thing. I'm still a bit traumatized...
[39:00 - 42:00] How smoothly the hosts rotate among the available roles: presenter, interrupter, maker of threats. Have Alice write the slides and immediately Justin becomes the Grover (the blue one) desperate to prevent each turn of a page. I appreciate the commitment to maintaining podcast quality.
To add: Juventus more or less kicked the ultras out of their stadium, because they were blackmailing Juve's managment into giving them tickets to resell at a much higher price, threatening to chant racist shit or put up racist banners to intentionally get the team fined if they didn't comply, but Agnelli said fuck you and banned them from the stadium. Turns out owning your own stadium instead of it being owned by the municipality has its advantages. The only drawback has been that the matches have been somewhat quiet with a few uncoordinated chants, but i'll take that 100% over having fascist criminals being allowed in.
@@iceman5117 Saying "Has its advantages" = "I fully 1000% approve of it" apparently. When the only current alternative is leaving it to the municipality and the FIGC who proceed to do absolutely nothing about it, I'd say it's preferable.
Sorry, there had been thousands of these ultras in the final at Heysel. They must have blackmailed the Belgium football association...Liverpool lost their allocated section of block Z that UEFA had put down on the organized plan of the ground.
As a former manager of an 1860 lighthouse, I will enlighten Roz: at that time, most lights in the British Empire used oil for the lantern: usually whale oil or colza oil (now known as Canola). Most smaller order lights were steady (i.e., non-blinking), but you could make an oil lamp light appear to blink by using a catoptric system of mirrors that revolved around the lamp, driven by a clockwork mechanism employing weights that would be wound up the centre of the tower like some Brobdingnagian grandfather clock. "My" lighthouse had a red glass shade over part of the light which would warn off mariners from turning into the harbour too early--if the light showed red, they would foul a reef at the harbour mouth; once it showed white, they were clear to make their turn. These red shades came (like all the lantern equipment) from Chance Brothers in Birmingham, and it took three tries to get the shades across the world unbroken--including two attempts to hump them across the Panama Isthmus by mule. Those arrived broken, and the third and final set of shades arrived safely after a long trip around the Cape of Good Hope (about a 9-month journey).
@@fuzzydunlop7928 I think the only remaining human-staffed light stations are here in British Columbia. Fairly remote, the Canadian Coast Guard generally looks for young families (being what they believe is a more stable unit for isolation). And, like Red Green, you need to be handy!
I don't know if this was a more american thing, but I know that a lot of lenses also rotated, the smaller ones rotating on iron wheels, the larger by literally floating on a pool of mercury, but similarly driven by lockwork. I'm not a lighthouse guy specifically but I am among many things a kerosene lamp guy, so I'll toss in more unsolicited information. I know a guy who restored to operation a chance bros kerosene burner, an IOV, so it takes kerosene from a pressurized tank, puts it through a preheating system, boils it to a vapor, then burns it through a fine mesh of wire to slow the jet of kero down. This also preheated the incoming kerosene. There's also older systems that included multiple coaxial wicks that were stacked in a weird tower of babbel.....thing.... The fuel for that was stored above them so the hot gasses rising from the flame. There are other types, but I'm less familiar with them in specifics. Elbow Key is a fantatic example of an intact light that still is kerosene lit and hand wound clockwork driven.
Good to remember that built in the 1920s in Belgium means "Built shortly after WW1 to give people in a country that had been blown to smithereens some kind of sports so they had a reason to live again". Much like how the 1920 Olympics in Belgium were ... shall we say rather frugal. It's going to be one of those "Well, this is the best we could do" structures.
@@Blazo_Djurovic Yeah I Checked, the Belgian Govt had been extracting wealth since 1908 when they finally got Leopold to stop doing crimes against Humanity, unfortunately for them, the wealth was extracted into what was a massive crater about 10 full years later. and on top of that crater they built Heysel!
American local politicians will continue to 'tough-on-crime' even when the president is Mecha-Hitler and the country is sinking into the ocean, just to appeal to the casual, ordinary centre-right voter. Or maybe they are just racist.
Justin sowing: “what are they gonna do lock up all the homeless people and allow them work release for Starbucks?” Me reaping: I can’t get coffee anywhere in a 20 mile radius
This is the future they want though. Bespoke boutique coffee made by servants, delivered by servants, closed to the unwashed. You can make your coffee in a cup over a fire.
Update: had a good day, made some friends, also got sunburned! Learn from my mistakes: Remember to reapply your sunblock when you’re out being gay and/or doing crimes.
It's true there isn't much hooliganism in the mlb teams. I think around here in Massachusetts, the most recent sports riot most people remember was when the Red Sox beat the Yankees in 2004. Cop shot a student (daughter of a family friend) directly in the face and prosecution decided the crowds were the reason she died. Anyway, one of the suburbs named a skatepark after her, which they've since demolished to put a pile of dirt on while they build a high school baseball field.
"Anyway, one of the suburbs named a skatepark after her, which they've since demolished to put a pile of dirt on while they build a high school baseball field." Whose decision was this and why do they want to get Liam'd.
So in this you say that the radios used by the police were broken. The fact I seem to recall is much worse! So at this time in Belgium there were two different police forces in Belgium. The Rijkswacht and the Gerechtelijke Politie. Both were present at the Heysel Stadium disaster but both used different radio frequencies and refused to work together.
As a San Franciscan, I'm so mad that we finally had a DA with a SLIGHTLY progressive stance, and we threw it away for a replacement who will be appointed by Mayor London "Sorry, I won't march in Pride Parade because the police department is boycotting it" Breed. I wish all the people who view homeless people as unsightly sidewalk obstacles would just move to the suburbs already.
Houses on my suburb street, one of the cheaper suburbs, go about a million a piece. Can you come up with the down payment? There just aren't enough homes for everyone who wants to live here. Unlike San Francisco we can hide the extra in Coyote Creek.
thank you for explaining 1970s european football Alice I just started reading the Discworld book about that (Unseen Academicals) and I didn't fully understand the contemporary social parallel
Former Portlander and Timbers Army member here: it’s Portland and the TA who most visibly fought MLS on the Iron Front logo (although the TA is not without its problems and is maybe in general slightly more lib than lefty these days). The Seattle supporters’ groups were generally, well, supportive: one of the only situations when Portland and Seattle were on the same side. obligatory Yay Liam
Can confirm - former Seattleite and ECS member here. Portland had the arrows in their tifos first; Seattle started doing it in solidarity. Now I live in Chicago for reasons and there are no tifos because there are no attendees at the games. Yay liam
As someone currently living under the sea as an aquatic mammal, do I throw myself onto land if I, hypothetically, left a comment celebrating Liam's temporary demise?
45:03 "veiled fascists calling each other Jews" Was it that common? In Kraków PL we had two teams. Wisła Kraków and Cracovia. For some reason Wisła hooligans used to call fans of Cracovia "Jews". Because of it in early 2000s it was not unusual to find building facades with crossed star of David grafitti. It was somewhat awkward considering the fact Kraków is a major tourist spot for Jewish people (there is Kazimierz - a quite beautiful historical Jewish district, and various WW2 memorials like remnants of Kraków ghetto, Shindler's factory, and Auschwitz Camp Museum). Early 2000s were also a time of 2nd intifada, so it was quite perplexing to see Jewish children school trips going goosebump surrounded by security officers through city full of buildings covered with seemingly antisemitic graffitis.
Cracovia was founded by a Catholic, a Protestant, and a Jew. From the start they always had players of different ethnic and religious back rounds. During some derby way back way, a Jewish player said "Let's win this Holy War." Other teams in Poland are called "The Jewish" team because of antisemitism. The Ajax Rotterdam rivalry is also like that. Since Amsterdam is more associated with finance and Rotterdam being shipbuilding, Ajax are Jews. The weird thing is how some of these clubs have embraced the lable and are friends with each other because of it.
I've listened to this podcast so much that instead of hearing my own voice narrating my thoughts I have Roz's voice, with occasional sarcastic remarks from Alice and Liam.
I'm in the SF Bay Area and appreciate your illuminating view on the Chesa Boudin thing, post-2020 election I've been mostly chilling on the political news (Republicans suck, cars bad, trains good, not much changes) but definitely picked up on "oh god progressivism doesn't work look at SF" without any of the undercurrent of _and of course the cops were, once again, people who deserve to have a nice time._ BTW I've definitely met the "fascists who think they're progressives because they go to sex parties", and have even met them at sex parties. There are gay nazi furries...like, great, aspire to an ideology that believes in gassing your very own self in concentration camps. Anyway, as I always say, "I hate all the conservatives and half the liberals", tends to be pretty true. Love the pod!
The other thing is also why Spanish and French hooligans are mostly a home game rioting issue as both France and Spain are roughly the size of Texas and California. It'd explain why University of Michigan vs Michigan State would have similar energy to many Spanish soccer derbies as Athletic Club to Real Sociedad or Deportivo La Coruna to Celta Vigo would be similar distance to East Lansing to Ann Arbor. That being said, England or the Netherlands given their land layout were ripe for hooligan firms with even low speed rail and clubs making Celta Vigo vs Depor seem distant.
I'm surprised Alice didn't mention the most notable time a UK team did relocate and rebrand. Wimbledon to Milton Keynes. The fallout to that was pretty bitter.
I'm from Milton Keynes and was a child when this happened. I always hated football (as an autistic dyspraxic AMAB nerd) so I didn't care. But was taken aback when I was in my 20s and a Wimbledonian in the comments section of an atheist blog yelled at me for being from MK
1:26:50 Lighthouses were lit by a bunch of candles in the early 1800s, by the 1890s it might have been a kerosene lamp behind the Fresnel lens. This British guy did a video on the Eddystone lighthouses, explains how the design of lighthouses in general changed over time as each got wrecked from 1703 on, because the lighthouse has to be on the Eddystone Rocks, which are located outside Plymouth harbor: ua-cam.com/video/QmrjoKJ4s58/v-deo.html
alot of the hooligan casual stuff is being stamped out, lifetime bans and serious jailtime pretty much solved the problem in the UK you barely hear of firms these days,
@@LunaRose1312 though this year we’ve had a few pitch invasions with stuff happening. Man city supporters beating up Aston villas keeper after they beat villa on the last day of the season
That lighthouse story reminds me of a (very tragic and sad) event that happened in Germany in the 1950s. There is a large rock about 100m off the shore of the island Rügen, called the "Schwanenstein" (= "swan rock"). Rügen belonged to the GDR (East Germany) at the time. Copied from Wikipedia: "A sad incident occurred on 13 February 1956, when some boys from the orphanage and the village of Lohme were playing near the shore on the frozen Baltic Sea. The weather changed suddenly, a storm whipped up and broke the ice. Three boys saved themselves on the Schwanenstein. As the wind dramatically increased in strength a frantic rescue operation was launched. Local fishermen, a fishing boat from Sassnitz and border guards tried to save the children, but storm surge wrecked all their efforts. Rescue teams from outside, for example, an engineer platoon of the Volkspolizei from Prora, got stuck in the metre-high snowdrifts. Only the next morning, when the weather had calmed, could the bodies of the three boys, Helmut Petersen, Uwe Wassilowsky and Manfred Prewitz, be recovered from the Schwanenstein. They were buried in the cemetery of Nipmerow, in the parish of Lohme. 39 years later, on 14 February 1995, at the initiative of the children at Lohme orphanage, a memorial stone was erected at their grave." There is a children's book about the incident, called "Drei Jungen im Eis" (= "Three boys in the ice") by Egon Schmidt. The fictionalized version changes the names, and probably invents new characters, and ends with two of the boys being successfully rescued as a result of everybody doing whatever they can to help (as a good socialist child and future hero of labour should ^ ^ ).
The special train part made me think about Newfoundland's "trouter's special". We're a small place population-wise, so there's no big sports events per se. So this train was specifically to take people from the capital city to the middle of nowhere to go to various ponds to fish on the late May holiday, traditionally the start of the local camping season.
On the theme of football being so completely different in the 70s to now - in '74 Phil Thompson brought the FA cup trophy to the local pub which is actually 3 doors down from me. An Evertonian 'accidentally' knocked the trophy over and it has a dent you can still see in the trophy room. The idea now of a player just taking the team's trophy from the club to go to the pub for the night is completely preposterous. If I remember rightly Phil said he actually slept with it that night to make sure it was safe. It's insane just how different football was back then to how it is now, they are completely different sports let alone the fan culture and club culture surrounding the teams. The idea now of, say, Mo Salah or Jordan Henderson just bringing the FA cup to fucking Kirkby, one of the most impoverished placed in the country, to celebrate with pints? Unthinkable.
My step dad has been through Belgium twice, the first time he accidentally bumped into someone who then slapped him. The second time was only a few months after the above described disaster. He asked a woman for directions and recognising that he was English she told him to go away and hit him with her handbag.
52:32 basically Alice when an English side goes abroad and is met with the kind of violence Liverpool were the year before it sends out a message to all clubs to come together to fight for one of our own, gotta think alot of these casuals were working class geezers from up and down the country, racism has no place in football on the pitch or the terraces, thankyou btw this episode is brilliant, love a good video essay with slides about footie antics, AFC till I die
9:06 after watching Nightcrawler (yes the movie) I just assume all news media can be manipulated to sell whatever byline they want. It probably isn’t always that sinister but never doubt the greed of capitalism
The video "My City Could Beat Up Your City" by the COPA90 Stories channel gives a bit of insight into the fan culture in England. They interview former hooligans and current ultras from Portsmouth and Southampton.
Give me a choice between an eldritch nightmare whispering evil past my ears and into my brain and a large crowd of people, I'm going to choose the one I'm familiar with thank you.
I feel like I Lathe of Heavened this episode into being. Recently I've been thinking about the movie The Cook, The Thief, His Wife & Her Lover and the piece of music at the end of the movie. That piece, Memorial by Michael Nyman, was originally written to commemorate the deaths which occurred at the Heysel Stadium Disaster. I even re-listened to the other stadium episode because I couldn't remember if it was this or if it was mentioned in passing. Weird coincidence.
I think Liam is also correct in that the teams being so closely connected to the towns (and sometimes neighborhoods) is a big factor in the phenomenon of hoooliganism, and why when it does crop up it's in college football rivalries. Though people have been murdered, on both coasts, over the Giants-Dodgers rivalry.
Lighthouse was probably kerosene fueled at that point. Also the fresnel lanterns in old lighthouses are gorgeous pieces of engineering. I visited one in Australia and the lantern was large enough to walk inside, with glass as thick as your arm
“California’s very very stupid recall process” Yeah this is how us Californians got Governor Schwarzenegger, who proved that a celebrity meme candidate could get elected. Fortunately that never happened again in the US!
Oh man the stories about Football Firms in Poland I could tell you, like the Krakow Derby, the Poznań Pact and other assorted bullshit, it's been nice to hear another episode closer to my polish heart.
Figures that as soon as there's a hint of sports riot, I'm willing to sit through the whole episode. The terrible, terrible 80s haircuts are just a bonus.
I guess it's because it's so unnecessary and most people think of sports as "fun", so going to the big match and just dying horribly because of a series of bad decisions and senseless violence hits a chord more easily than just "infrastructure failed, bridge fell". It's similar with nightclub disasters I think.
I can’t speak for this lighthouse but in America around that time period, the fuel for the lighthouse could have been kerosene or another oil (though I think kerosene became the preferred fuel). Funnily enough there were electric lighthouses and electric lighthouse predate the kerosene/mineral oil ones by a few decades
Also funny enough a lot of lighthouse keepers would actually bring their families with them and the family members did a lot to help maintain and run the lighthouse. I worked on Lake Superior for a National forest with several lighthouses and we tried to teach people that a lot more women than we credit helped with lighthouse keeping.
Fascism is fashion. All aesthetics, no principles. Interesting to hear about how this connected to Italian communists of all things. What a wacky world.
My city does special trains/buses for sports events too, but it's more special routes to prevent drink driving stuff than to keep the fans from normal people
My parents often told me the story of when they were driving around the Rome area the days around this match... in a GB-plated car. They had to get the hotel to hide it for fear of it getting smashed up...
Concerning the “Safety Third” segment of this video, I ended up finding the Calf Island lighthouse collapse on an Internet blog from May 21, 2015 which dated it to November 1881. The blog also mentions the keeper going downstairs before the collapse happened. Pretty interesting.
Amazing how they’re complaining about a DA in a place they don’t live where retail stores are staying closed due to the amount of theft. Almost like you guys are pandering. How about leaving the politics out of it and just doing the stuff you’re good at, thanks.
How about the "boys in blue" do their fucking jobs? Also you can't cut crime if you don't raise wages so that people can live without having to steal.
@@ferky123 police either need higher accountability or GTFO
Ooh, is this the pinned comment
"leave the politics out of it"
have you listened to this podcast before?
oh this is gonna be good
damn i need popcorn for the inevitable pinning of this and the resulting shitstorm
Roz: "the elites don't want you to know this but the bricks in old buildings are free. You can take them home. I have 458 bricks"
He'll build his own stadium! With blackjack and hookers!
You can also do this with soil. As a millennial, this is how I plan to become a home owner. I have several bags of land I have acquired in this manner. Eventually I'll be able to build a house on it.
The only downside is, famous bricks and regular bricks look mostly the same, so don't go stealing from the Great Wall or Disneyland, it's extra work for the same lump of forged clay.
At what point do you make a museum of bricks from bricks acquired from old buildings
@@FerretKibble - Carrying around several tens of kilos of aggregate and cement underneath your coat - "My nipples are getting itchy"
"Two groups of fascists calling each other Jews" pretty much sums up what most arguments on 4chan devolve into
sometimes they call each other black to keep things fresh
Belgian here. A few word from someone who was near the action:
- People in the US or elsewhere may not completely grasp what a big football match like this used to represent for a city. It was basically a siege. Roaming hooligans, looting, sacking any drinking establishment, fighting in the streets, ... the works. Local residents did not linger outside on those days. And they would be washing the piss off their facades the next day.
Belgium sorta had two police forces at the time, police (the common version) and the gendarmerie (a more militarised thing, created by... revolutionary France, way back when). Of course the two agencies were full of contempt for each other, worked their own way, on their own radio frequencies, and barely coordinated. E.g. the police liaison to the gendarmerie HQ was basically locked in a separate room there and kept out of the loop during the whole thing. Each force was policing one half of the stadium, not knowing what the other was doing.
Also, they both disregarded the advice of British/German/Italian police attachés that had a better grasp on just how fucked up hooligans truly are.
About the ticketing: that zone of 'neutrals' was mostly full of actual Italians, not Belgian-Italians. Many reports indicate that the mafia bought most of those tickets ahead of time and resold them in Italy for a hefty profit. So yeah, two belligerent sides next to each other, separated by a chicken fence.
Once shit started going down at the stadium, law enforcement decided that the nutjobs inside the stadium were less of a problem since they had been frisked and had a football match to look at. So it was decided to move most of the uniforms out of the stadium to help out with the fighting outside where there's straight up medieval warfare shit going on. Some English dude with a megaphone coordinates a volley of empty beer bottles before leading a charge of hundreds of hooligans against a few gendarmes who scatter instantly, letting hundreds of armed belligerent drunks inside. Right as most police is getting outside. To top it all up, police radio equipment starts failing left and right, batteries dying out after a full day of intensive use since the city has been under siege since early morning.
After the dying started, most responders were too shocked to do their jobs properly. The paramedics who did try to tend to the wounded inside got bombarded with stones and bottles like in a warzone. Now the paramedics had just introduced a new system of triage: a little necklace thing with sheets of green, yellow, red and black paper. The idea was to put the sheet of the appropriate color on top so that you could keep track of lightly injured/heavily injured/dead etc. Of course the wounded and their families figured it out and changed which color sheet they had to red so they'd get tended to. There's a story of like 8 separate attempts to CPR a dead woman because the family kept turning the sheet from black to red.
After the initial daze, medical services really kicked into gear and did an excellent job, considering. All the while an emergency crisis meeting of high-flying officials from police, gendarmerie, firefighters, governors, etc etc was underway at the firefighters' HQ. The mayor of Brussels, some guy with heavy aphasia and maybe an alcohol problem allegedly started the meeting with 'welcome to city hall!' Then the more capable people present decided that they absolutely had to let the match play because they simply did not have the manpower to restore order should every Italian and English supporter decide to find another way of entertaining themselves. We're talking tens of thousands of supporters, so fair point I guess? They kept the word from getting out and marshalled forces in the meantime.
The political fallout and blame games that followed were absolutely digusting too.
TLDR: Belgian authorities fucked up. Big time.
I remember the Euro at France in '16, or the last European finals, and sieging a host city seems to still be en vogue
Sieges are still a thing today, at least here in Amsterdam. Luckily we have corraling options for the animals and give out lifetime stadium bans with zero tolerance. Still, when the fascists* come to watch Ajax-Feyenoord (Amsterdam-Rotterdam respectively) play they still manage to riot. And any congregation of Ajax fans leads to central Amsterdam getting completely trashed, whether they win or lose, celebrate or "mourn" another doesn't-fucking-matter-championship. And they send credible death-threats to the mayor and other public officials for daring to police them.
*And yes I call them fascists, Ajax fans have chants cheering the Rotterdam bombardment and both fanbases do anti-semetic ones. And of course the rascism against players. Fascists. Fuck all footbal fans, no exceptions.
What I find even more amazing is that *Luxembourg* (population 11) also used to have a separate police and gendarmerie. Those Napoleonic institutions really stuck. (Like how almost every Commonwealth country has kept many weird English common law institutions/concepts/rules.)
@@ramirorybczuk9100 Different breed of people in the 80's...it was a war mindset back then all working class and all young males their were some real sickos back then .
For the English the worst of it died out at Euro 2000...they were running Germans all over Charleroi and threatened with being expelled from the tournament...we starting giving hooligan banning orders after that .... English hooligans haven't really been that bad since early 2000's
Sounds like Ten Cent Beer Night in 1974 if it happened every game
I think Liam is on to something.
In the U.S., Pittsburgh's would-be hooligans can't just casually travel 600 km across the state in large numbers to fight Philadelphia's would-be hooligans, for instance. It's too expensive and time-consuming. So, instead, sportsball hooligans just burn down their own city when their team wins a game.
It also explains the French and Spanish hooliganism as increasingly a home game rioting problem despite high-speed rail as Marseille to Rennes would be a convoluted route. So if something annoys a Rennes fan about Marseille, they'll wait for when Marseille next visits Rennes. France is the size of Texas and the population has an empty diagonal with the exception of Toulouse, Pau, and Bayonne is about as densely populated as Kansas from the Belgian border to Irun/Bayonne.
Spain has more high-speed rail, but it's all hub and spoke with the hub being Madrid which means the hooligans are localized to where Basque clubs (Osasuna, Eibar, Real Sociedad, and Athletic Club) or Andulusian clubs usual found in Sevilla. Madrid teams are subject to hatred depending on the fan politics (Real Betis fans would hate left wing Vallecano fans) or Basque clubs hating Real Madrid (Real Madrid being Franco's favorite and Basques being center left for the most part at worst)
I remember Newcastle fans wrecking London for two years straight after FA Cup finals. By the time you get home, you're not mad any more so you tip over the first phone box you get your eyes on.
Go Birds.
Also it's like 40 bucks in tolls alone
Here's my pet theory: "play" fighting in a country with a billion guns is deemed too friggin' dangerous even by the most insane members of society.
Saturday Morning crew rise up. Everyone get a big bowl of cereal and sit as a close to the Screen as possible. It’s Saturday morning cartoon time with our parasocial podcast friends.
YAY LIAM
Saturday night in Japan enjoying a cup sake 🍶
Yay Liam! I'm eating ice cream and watching.
Yay liam
Lights off, eyeballs to the screen
Petition to begin referring to Alice the same way AOC has been short-handed.
All hail ACK.
ACK!
Unfortunately "Ack" is a transphobic slur on some parts of the internet
@@reidfann Don't worry, now it's NCK
"Lighthouses" would be an EXCELLENT Halloween special. The inherently cursed nature of something so vital to humanity's early expansion - which was in and of itself - a cursed process which persists today. A nice foundation from which to frame the individual accounts.
So much horrifically wacky shit's gone down at lighthouses, the dozen or so soldiers that got swept away in a storm off the Alaskan coast in the late 40's, a multitude of anecdotes of keepers disappearing tending light along the British Isles in the 19th century. That time Robert Pattinson banged a weird fish vagina.
You have the widespread enterprise of "Wrecking" - using a decoy light to fool a ship into running aground so you can waylay it and take its cargo, could touch on the more notably disastrous instances of the practice.
Different types of lighthouse constructions, pros & cons, ancient lighthouse bs. It's a meaty topic.
also the period of time in the early 1900s when a pedestal full of mercury was used to help them rotate more easily
Yes to this! I think the lighthouses would have used paraffin in the 1880s? Please correct me if I've got that wrong
@@polr6311 The light also floated in a bath of mercury (for its lack of friction) which didn't help the whole lighthouse keepers going mad thing
@@crybernetics9007 please where can I read more about this mad hatter-y
Never heard of that lighthouse in Alaska before. For anyone else unfamiliar with it and interested, look up Scotch Cap Light. Five people got killed by a tsunami on April Fool's Day, 1946.
Ah crap. Liam's back from the annual Jewish space laser conference.
Oh, is there a new Star Wars out?
Oh god, I recently received a warning on another site and got my comment deleted for "hate speech" after jokingly referencing the Jewish space laser thing.
I'm still a bit traumatized...
He was the CIA's representative.
@@johannageisel5390 insta? They always delete my jokes like that or whenever I say kys
@@craigstephenson7676 No, imgur.
[39:00 - 42:00] How smoothly the hosts rotate among the available roles: presenter, interrupter, maker of threats. Have Alice write the slides and immediately Justin becomes the Grover (the blue one) desperate to prevent each turn of a page. I appreciate the commitment to maintaining podcast quality.
Lol, yes, I noticed that too.
Professionalism to a tee
Being in a UEFA/European spirit, it could be called total podcasting
To add: Juventus more or less kicked the ultras out of their stadium, because they were blackmailing Juve's managment into giving them tickets to resell at a much higher price, threatening to chant racist shit or put up racist banners to intentionally get the team fined if they didn't comply, but Agnelli said fuck you and banned them from the stadium. Turns out owning your own stadium instead of it being owned by the municipality has its advantages. The only drawback has been that the matches have been somewhat quiet with a few uncoordinated chants, but i'll take that 100% over having fascist criminals being allowed in.
Claims to be antifascist, supports the fascist institution of privatization. Go figure
@@iceman5117 Saying "Has its advantages" = "I fully 1000% approve of it" apparently.
When the only current alternative is leaving it to the municipality and the FIGC who proceed to do absolutely nothing about it, I'd say it's preferable.
Sorry, there had been thousands of these ultras in the final at Heysel. They must have blackmailed the Belgium football association...Liverpool lost their allocated section of block Z that UEFA had put down on the organized plan of the ground.
@@alleyhughes4529 You are aware that what i talked about happened like last year and not in 1985 right?
@@Hilian95 Thanks for that ok sure ic !
As a former manager of an 1860 lighthouse, I will enlighten Roz: at that time, most lights in the British Empire used oil for the lantern: usually whale oil or colza oil (now known as Canola). Most smaller order lights were steady (i.e., non-blinking), but you could make an oil lamp light appear to blink by using a catoptric system of mirrors that revolved around the lamp, driven by a clockwork mechanism employing weights that would be wound up the centre of the tower like some Brobdingnagian grandfather clock. "My" lighthouse had a red glass shade over part of the light which would warn off mariners from turning into the harbour too early--if the light showed red, they would foul a reef at the harbour mouth; once it showed white, they were clear to make their turn. These red shades came (like all the lantern equipment) from Chance Brothers in Birmingham, and it took three tries to get the shades across the world unbroken--including two attempts to hump them across the Panama Isthmus by mule. Those arrived broken, and the third and final set of shades arrived safely after a long trip around the Cape of Good Hope (about a 9-month journey).
Thank you, I was looking for the Lighthouse Guy (gender-neutral) in the comments because I wanted to know too👍
Ahh.. a lighthouse guy, right there!
How do you get that kind of gig? I want to tend some light.
@@fuzzydunlop7928 I think the only remaining human-staffed light stations are here in British Columbia. Fairly remote, the Canadian Coast Guard generally looks for young families (being what they believe is a more stable unit for isolation). And, like Red Green, you need to be handy!
I don't know if this was a more american thing, but I know that a lot of lenses also rotated, the smaller ones rotating on iron wheels, the larger by literally floating on a pool of mercury, but similarly driven by lockwork. I'm not a lighthouse guy specifically but I am among many things a kerosene lamp guy, so I'll toss in more unsolicited information. I know a guy who restored to operation a chance bros kerosene burner, an IOV, so it takes kerosene from a pressurized tank, puts it through a preheating system, boils it to a vapor, then burns it through a fine mesh of wire to slow the jet of kero down. This also preheated the incoming kerosene. There's also older systems that included multiple coaxial wicks that were stacked in a weird tower of babbel.....thing.... The fuel for that was stored above them so the hot gasses rising from the flame. There are other types, but I'm less familiar with them in specifics. Elbow Key is a fantatic example of an intact light that still is kerosene lit and hand wound clockwork driven.
What better way to start a Saturday, than to catch up with my parasocial friends Roz, Alice, and the until-recently-occluded Liam
Join the discoooord
Talking of uk railways, my union (rmt) is going on strike, good luck running trains without any of us signallers!
Stay strong!
Congrats and best of luck to the workers!
Godspeed to your union.
Good luck to you and stay strong. Solidarity forever!
Good luck
Good to remember that built in the 1920s in Belgium means "Built shortly after WW1 to give people in a country that had been blown to smithereens some kind of sports so they had a reason to live again". Much like how the 1920 Olympics in Belgium were ... shall we say rather frugal.
It's going to be one of those "Well, this is the best we could do" structures.
I mean it couldn't have been too much of a financial burden. They were still brutally extracting all that wealth from the Congo.
@@danielkorladis7869 Was the govenrment in charge or was it still King Carrol?'s personal fief?
@@Blazo_Djurovic I feel like they did away with Leopolds Fiefdom after World War 1 at least, dont quote me on that!
@@Blazo_Djurovic Yeah I Checked, the Belgian Govt had been extracting wealth since 1908 when they finally got Leopold to stop doing crimes against Humanity, unfortunately for them, the wealth was extracted into what was a massive crater about 10 full years later. and on top of that crater they built Heysel!
@@choobs8511 So we can absolutely say that the concrete's ingredient was Congolese blood
i like how the commercial is timed to go directly after Alice saying "i'll speed this up a little bit"
Roz knows exactly what he's doing
Gareth's graduated from making the actionable threats to doing the voice, too!
Gareth defeated Liam in the Shivering Isles, but is destined to mantle and become him.
My local elections are coming up and there literally isn’t a single person running without “tough-on-crime” in their platform.
Have you tried [redacted]?
Love that, cause being tough on crime has worked so well before 🤡. Just means more homeless people being run out into less safer areas.
American local politicians will continue to 'tough-on-crime' even when the president is Mecha-Hitler and the country is sinking into the ocean, just to appeal to the casual, ordinary centre-right voter. Or maybe they are just racist.
@@maybemablemaples2144 that's the point
@@comradesillyotter1537 oh I do know that but whoever doesn't will know now. Those idiots think that police will solve everything.
“Don’t listen to the Sex Pistols, listen the the Clash!”
God I fucking love Liam.
I can’t say he’s wrong, honestly.
Fucking yay Liam is back! I miss your actionable threats.... They are the best
That's atleast half the reason I listen
Alice: How many people would you like to fight at once
Liam: uh...
Alice: NEXT SLIDE PLEASE
Justin sowing: “what are they gonna do lock up all the homeless people and allow them work release for Starbucks?”
Me reaping: I can’t get coffee anywhere in a 20 mile radius
This is the future they want though. Bespoke boutique coffee made by servants, delivered by servants, closed to the unwashed. You can make your coffee in a cup over a fire.
Damn this new Liam guy sounds really cool, hope he becomes a permanent host
"You up? I got a lead pipe" is an incredibly threatening statement when you think about it.
Things I’m doing this Saturday morning:
-Podcast with slides
-my local pride parade
Good day ahead of me!
Same!
My pride parade is in 2 weeks. Maybe we'll have another episode by then.
Update: had a good day, made some friends, also got sunburned! Learn from my mistakes: Remember to reapply your sunblock when you’re out being gay and/or doing crimes.
It's true there isn't much hooliganism in the mlb teams. I think around here in Massachusetts, the most recent sports riot most people remember was when the Red Sox beat the Yankees in 2004. Cop shot a student (daughter of a family friend) directly in the face and prosecution decided the crowds were the reason she died.
Anyway, one of the suburbs named a skatepark after her, which they've since demolished to put a pile of dirt on while they build a high school baseball field.
"Anyway, one of the suburbs named a skatepark after her, which they've since demolished to put a pile of dirt on while they build a high school baseball field."
Whose decision was this and why do they want to get Liam'd.
All I remember is that kid getting arrested at the skatepark at night for no reason and the cop pulled a gun on him
Sucks how Skinheads are actually a working class british kid thing that was into Jamaican ska, reggae, and two-tone, and racists co-opted their style
So in this you say that the radios used by the police were broken. The fact I seem to recall is much worse! So at this time in Belgium there were two different police forces in Belgium. The Rijkswacht and the Gerechtelijke Politie. Both were present at the Heysel Stadium disaster but both used different radio frequencies and refused to work together.
The police on duty at Heysel were the bottom of the barrel. The Pope had visited Brussels recently and the best police officers were on that.
Injected WTYP directly into my eyeballs, thank you
WTYP is stored in the eyeballs
@@fclp67 Problems are injected into the eye of the beholder?
As well as earballs.
Just like that Safety Third electrician installing the canister lighting
Exactly
Some people return heralded by horns resounding. Liam returns accompanied by beeps obscuring actionable threats.
Glad to have ya back!
As a San Franciscan, I'm so mad that we finally had a DA with a SLIGHTLY progressive stance, and we threw it away for a replacement who will be appointed by Mayor London "Sorry, I won't march in Pride Parade because the police department is boycotting it" Breed.
I wish all the people who view homeless people as unsightly sidewalk obstacles would just move to the suburbs already.
Houses on my suburb street, one of the cheaper suburbs, go about a million a piece. Can you come up with the down payment? There just aren't enough homes for everyone who wants to live here. Unlike San Francisco we can hide the extra in Coyote Creek.
Just saw 70000 Britannia, picked up my estrogen patches and Liam is back!
Today is a good day.
thank you for explaining 1970s european football Alice I just started reading the Discworld book about that (Unseen Academicals) and I didn't fully understand the contemporary social parallel
I can always count on Alice to know the proper plurals for things like stadia, thank you for being the same kind of hyperfocused nerd that I am.
Former Portlander and Timbers Army member here: it’s Portland and the TA who most visibly fought MLS on the Iron Front logo (although the TA is not without its problems and is maybe in general slightly more lib than lefty these days). The Seattle supporters’ groups were generally, well, supportive: one of the only situations when Portland and Seattle were on the same side.
obligatory Yay Liam
Can confirm - former Seattleite and ECS member here. Portland had the arrows in their tifos first; Seattle started doing it in solidarity. Now I live in Chicago for reasons and there are no tifos because there are no attendees at the games. Yay liam
Happy 30th birthday to me, y’all. Thanks for all you do!
happy birthday
Happy birthday!
As someone currently living under the sea as an aquatic mammal, do I throw myself onto land if I, hypothetically, left a comment celebrating Liam's temporary demise?
45:03 "veiled fascists calling each other Jews"
Was it that common? In Kraków PL we had two teams. Wisła Kraków and Cracovia. For some reason Wisła hooligans used to call fans of Cracovia "Jews". Because of it in early 2000s it was not unusual to find building facades with crossed star of David grafitti. It was somewhat awkward considering the fact Kraków is a major tourist spot for Jewish people (there is Kazimierz - a quite beautiful historical Jewish district, and various WW2 memorials like remnants of Kraków ghetto, Shindler's factory, and Auschwitz Camp Museum). Early 2000s were also a time of 2nd intifada, so it was quite perplexing to see Jewish children school trips going goosebump surrounded by security officers through city full of buildings covered with seemingly antisemitic graffitis.
Cracovia was founded by a Catholic, a Protestant, and a Jew. From the start they always had players of different ethnic and religious back rounds. During some derby way back way, a Jewish player said "Let's win this Holy War."
Other teams in Poland are called "The Jewish" team because of antisemitism. The Ajax Rotterdam rivalry is also like that. Since Amsterdam is more associated with finance and Rotterdam being shipbuilding, Ajax are Jews.
The weird thing is how some of these clubs have embraced the lable and are friends with each other because of it.
“I don’t think America has sports hooliganism” said the man from Philadelphia.
I really appreciate how when you bleep Liam, it’s only his track bleeped, so we can still hear your reactions!
I've listened to this podcast so much that instead of hearing my own voice narrating my thoughts I have Roz's voice, with occasional sarcastic remarks from Alice and Liam.
yes
you've transcended the parasocial relationship 🧘♂️
I'm in the SF Bay Area and appreciate your illuminating view on the Chesa Boudin thing, post-2020 election I've been mostly chilling on the political news (Republicans suck, cars bad, trains good, not much changes) but definitely picked up on "oh god progressivism doesn't work look at SF" without any of the undercurrent of _and of course the cops were, once again, people who deserve to have a nice time._
BTW I've definitely met the "fascists who think they're progressives because they go to sex parties", and have even met them at sex parties. There are gay nazi furries...like, great, aspire to an ideology that believes in gassing your very own self in concentration camps. Anyway, as I always say, "I hate all the conservatives and half the liberals", tends to be pretty true. Love the pod!
Philosophical question: if Liam is back, but forgot the pronoun check... is Liam really "back"?
Liam’s pronouns are Yay/Liam
😂😂
The other thing is also why Spanish and French hooligans are mostly a home game rioting issue as both France and Spain are roughly the size of Texas and California. It'd explain why University of Michigan vs Michigan State would have similar energy to many Spanish soccer derbies as Athletic Club to Real Sociedad or Deportivo La Coruna to Celta Vigo would be similar distance to East Lansing to Ann Arbor.
That being said, England or the Netherlands given their land layout were ripe for hooligan firms with even low speed rail and clubs making Celta Vigo vs Depor seem distant.
I'm surprised Alice didn't mention the most notable time a UK team did relocate and rebrand. Wimbledon to Milton Keynes. The fallout to that was pretty bitter.
I'm from Milton Keynes and was a child when this happened. I always hated football (as an autistic dyspraxic AMAB nerd) so I didn't care. But was taken aback when I was in my 20s and a Wimbledonian in the comments section of an atheist blog yelled at me for being from MK
I now really want a Shaolin Soccer-esque film that's a team made up entirely of Drunken Masters.
1:26:50 Lighthouses were lit by a bunch of candles in the early 1800s, by the 1890s it might have been a kerosene lamp behind the Fresnel lens. This British guy did a video on the Eddystone lighthouses, explains how the design of lighthouses in general changed over time as each got wrecked from 1703 on, because the lighthouse has to be on the Eddystone Rocks, which are located outside Plymouth harbor: ua-cam.com/video/QmrjoKJ4s58/v-deo.html
Lets put some candles in there. That‘s probably fine. *lighthouse guy speak
@@bighatlo0wgan650 When they used candles, it was on this suspended rope rig, looked like 12-16 candles.
It's also casual in the scenes you're not wearing your team's kit, somethink that would also make you more identifiable in a crime.
The Hillsborough episode hit me the most out of any of the episodes and it gave me a new fear, so I'm... curious? Sure, let's go with that.
"this is now a sports podcast" Liam makes sure of that from time to time
I'm glad that as soon as I'm starting to get into football, WTYPP presents me with: New Fear.
Thankfully it's a lot safer these days.
Yeah this kind of stuff doesn’t happen anymore in the big leagues anyway.
alot of the hooligan casual stuff is being stamped out, lifetime bans and serious jailtime pretty much solved the problem in the UK you barely hear of firms these days,
@@LunaRose1312 though this year we’ve had a few pitch invasions with stuff happening. Man city supporters beating up Aston villas keeper after they beat villa on the last day of the season
@@LunaRose1312 it does go hand in hand with the commercialisation and gentrification of the sport to a significant degree. There's always a downside.
That lighthouse story reminds me of a (very tragic and sad) event that happened in Germany in the 1950s.
There is a large rock about 100m off the shore of the island Rügen, called the "Schwanenstein" (= "swan rock"). Rügen belonged to the GDR (East Germany) at the time.
Copied from Wikipedia:
"A sad incident occurred on 13 February 1956, when some boys from the orphanage and the village of Lohme were playing near the shore on the frozen Baltic Sea. The weather changed suddenly, a storm whipped up and broke the ice. Three boys saved themselves on the Schwanenstein. As the wind dramatically increased in strength a frantic rescue operation was launched. Local fishermen, a fishing boat from Sassnitz and border guards tried to save the children, but storm surge wrecked all their efforts. Rescue teams from outside, for example, an engineer platoon of the Volkspolizei from Prora, got stuck in the metre-high snowdrifts. Only the next morning, when the weather had calmed, could the bodies of the three boys, Helmut Petersen, Uwe Wassilowsky and Manfred Prewitz, be recovered from the Schwanenstein. They were buried in the cemetery of Nipmerow, in the parish of Lohme. 39 years later, on 14 February 1995, at the initiative of the children at Lohme orphanage, a memorial stone was erected at their grave."
There is a children's book about the incident, called "Drei Jungen im Eis" (= "Three boys in the ice") by Egon Schmidt. The fictionalized version changes the names, and probably invents new characters, and ends with two of the boys being successfully rescued as a result of everybody doing whatever they can to help (as a good socialist child and future hero of labour should ^ ^ ).
So today I learned football hooligans fought using the batchall system. Thanks wtyp!
Still a bunch of desgra freebirths.
The special train part made me think about Newfoundland's "trouter's special". We're a small place population-wise, so there's no big sports events per se. So this train was specifically to take people from the capital city to the middle of nowhere to go to various ponds to fish on the late May holiday, traditionally the start of the local camping season.
now imagining trouter hooliganism...
@@joshuagreen3185 A good bit of booze was drunk on those trains, some of them must have got rowdy haha
Honestly I complain a lot about not being able to easily take the train to fish for trout so I endorse this
On the theme of football being so completely different in the 70s to now - in '74 Phil Thompson brought the FA cup trophy to the local pub which is actually 3 doors down from me. An Evertonian 'accidentally' knocked the trophy over and it has a dent you can still see in the trophy room. The idea now of a player just taking the team's trophy from the club to go to the pub for the night is completely preposterous. If I remember rightly Phil said he actually slept with it that night to make sure it was safe. It's insane just how different football was back then to how it is now, they are completely different sports let alone the fan culture and club culture surrounding the teams. The idea now of, say, Mo Salah or Jordan Henderson just bringing the FA cup to fucking Kirkby, one of the most impoverished placed in the country, to celebrate with pints? Unthinkable.
My step dad has been through Belgium twice, the first time he accidentally bumped into someone who then slapped him. The second time was only a few months after the above described disaster. He asked a woman for directions and recognising that he was English she told him to go away and hit him with her handbag.
As least he wasn't a French.
YAY LIAM. I'm so glad our favorite angry boy is back.
Wish some of these officials were in a Texas elementary School honestly
this was a great listen for my saturday morning. walked the dog, had a smoke, cooked and ate breakfast, and taking a dump to this.
Ironically liverpool is known for its left wing fan groups.
52:32 basically Alice when an English side goes abroad and is met with the kind of violence Liverpool were the year before it sends out a message to all clubs to come together to fight for one of our own, gotta think alot of these casuals were working class geezers from up and down the country, racism has no place in football on the pitch or the terraces, thankyou btw this episode is brilliant, love a good video essay with slides about footie antics, AFC till I die
9:06 after watching Nightcrawler (yes the movie) I just assume all news media can be manipulated to sell whatever byline they want. It probably isn’t always that sinister but never doubt the greed of capitalism
"It probably isn’t always that sinister.." Every slow news day is a day they don't mention real news. Far as I see it, it's always that sinister.
remember that basically all major news sources are owned by the same class of people that also basically owns all the politicians
The video "My City Could Beat Up Your City" by the COPA90 Stories channel gives a bit of insight into the fan culture in England. They interview former hooligans and current ultras from Portsmouth and Southampton.
Give me a choice between an eldritch nightmare whispering evil past my ears and into my brain and a large crowd of people, I'm going to choose the one I'm familiar with thank you.
I feel like I Lathe of Heavened this episode into being. Recently I've been thinking about the movie The Cook, The Thief, His Wife & Her Lover and the piece of music at the end of the movie. That piece, Memorial by Michael Nyman, was originally written to commemorate the deaths which occurred at the Heysel Stadium Disaster. I even re-listened to the other stadium episode because I couldn't remember if it was this or if it was mentioned in passing. Weird coincidence.
I think Liam is also correct in that the teams being so closely connected to the towns (and sometimes neighborhoods) is a big factor in the phenomenon of hoooliganism, and why when it does crop up it's in college football rivalries. Though people have been murdered, on both coasts, over the Giants-Dodgers rivalry.
Lighthouse was probably kerosene fueled at that point. Also the fresnel lanterns in old lighthouses are gorgeous pieces of engineering. I visited one in Australia and the lantern was large enough to walk inside, with glass as thick as your arm
NO-- I MEAN, YAY LIAM!
The Bones to Alice's Kirk and Justin's Spock has returned at last!
Dammit, Jim, I'm a doctor, not an engineer
I like this podcast even when the politics don't exactly align with what I think 100% of the time. It's a good pod. With slides.
Liiiiiiiaaaaaam's baaaaack!
(assumes the position to receive Liam's verbal abuse)
I for one welcome the return of our capricious and cruel Liam overlord.
The beleaguered team returns to the podcast mines!
I guess they still haven't learned to code.
"Hey you, let's fight!"
"Thems be fighting words!"
god I missed liam's actionable threats being bleeped out our boy is back
Yay Liam!!!! Glad to see Alice write a ep again! Oh and yall have 66.6k subs currently.... nice
I'm so glad Liam brought up Gary Condit, because he got away with what he did due to 9/11.
“California’s very very stupid recall process” Yeah this is how us Californians got Governor Schwarzenegger, who proved that a celebrity meme candidate could get elected. Fortunately that never happened again in the US!
I didn't realise I live for the way Liam uses and says the word 'malaise' yet here we are...
Yay, and i cannot stress this enough, Liam!
Oh man the stories about Football Firms in Poland I could tell you, like the Krakow Derby, the Poznań Pact and other assorted bullshit, it's been nice to hear another episode closer to my polish heart.
Figures that as soon as there's a hint of sports riot, I'm willing to sit through the whole episode. The terrible, terrible 80s haircuts are just a bonus.
Thank you for this episode. I heard Alice choking up at a few points. What is it about sporting event disasters that get us all so angry and upset?
It's so pathetic and unnecessary.
"It's only game, why you have to be mad?" -some euro hockey player a while ago.
(I dunno, I've only seen the meme)
I guess it's because it's so unnecessary and most people think of sports as "fun", so going to the big match and just dying horribly because of a series of bad decisions and senseless violence hits a chord more easily than just "infrastructure failed, bridge fell". It's similar with nightclub disasters I think.
So you guys still owe us a Hajj episode and now you're adding HS/2 and California High Speed Rail to the list?
So be it.
Liam: *faint groan*
Me: YAY LIAM!
Our Liam is home! 💖
Liam is BACK! Starting off with actionable threats for all the haters. Let’s go!
Wuuuh 🎉🎉
I'd love to throw myself into the sea but it is polluted. ❤️ Yay Liam!
I can’t speak for this lighthouse but in America around that time period, the fuel for the lighthouse could have been kerosene or another oil (though I think kerosene became the preferred fuel). Funnily enough there were electric lighthouses and electric lighthouse predate the kerosene/mineral oil ones by a few decades
Also funny enough a lot of lighthouse keepers would actually bring their families with them and the family members did a lot to help maintain and run the lighthouse. I worked on Lake Superior for a National forest with several lighthouses and we tried to teach people that a lot more women than we credit helped with lighthouse keeping.
Fascism is fashion.
All aesthetics, no principles.
Interesting to hear about how this connected to Italian communists of all things.
What a wacky world.
"This isn't anyone's fault (aside from the English people)" resumes so much in history
Well this is serendipitous timing, happy Saturday; yay Liam!
Proper semicolon use gets a like and a comment whenever it crosses my path. ✌️🍍
Gray Davis? We should return California to Emperor Norton.
If you do a video on California's HSR, that might mean you will need to bring in Alan Fisher/The Armchair Urbanist.
My city does special trains/buses for sports events too, but it's more special routes to prevent drink driving stuff than to keep the fans from normal people
Yep, I am one of those middle class corporate MLS season tickets holders. We're loud, but well-behaved. Go Loons!
I was at a hockey game in Toledo, there was a fight between the home fans and the away players. The players won.
My parents often told me the story of when they were driving around the Rome area the days around this match... in a GB-plated car. They had to get the hotel to hide it for fear of it getting smashed up...
“How does this country still exists?” trust me Liam, we Italians have been wondering that for several centuries now.
Concerning the “Safety Third” segment of this video, I ended up finding the Calf Island lighthouse collapse on an Internet blog from May 21, 2015 which dated it to November 1881. The blog also mentions the keeper going downstairs before the collapse happened.
Pretty interesting.
This gives me a lot more background for the Trainspotting trilogy of books. Hooliganism is a recurring theme in all three
I love Liams Goofy laughter, hope to hear it this time :D