Enjoyed your video and insights. Somewhere along the line, worship became associated with music and singing. But true worship is presenting yourself as a living sacrifice.
Yes in the good works that we were created for. Not as if the good works give us anything. But as our duty. In Full truth and spirit. And Love most of all
Rich stuff, I really enjoyed the convo! "Our missiology must come before our ecclesiology..." what a fascinating thought that really contradicts the majority of church history. I'm gonna have to read Organic Church soon! Bless you guys!
Great discussion. 28:08 this is a crucial point. The American church has unfortunately been so deceived into actually thinking they're worshipping God by singing the two slower songs after the three faster songs on Sunday during the so called "worship" service (which, by the way, the early church never participated in or referred to their gatherings as such. I recommend Dr. Tom Wadsworth's series on his channel to get a biblical understanding on this subject). It's unfortunate that most folks have never even been taught what true, New Testament worship is. It's therefore no wonder the church is in the shape it is when it doesn’t even have a solid foundation of what is literally the bedrock of our faith. But God is opening eyes and hearts to His longing to be worshipped in spirit and truth.
so much of the discipleship process is recognizing what soil they are and trutsting Holy Spirit to move them to the next possible soil and you waiting until they are prepared to bare fruit with patience, but not cater to it. We use this parable like crazy!
In Ephesians 5:19, Paul gives a direct command to the church: “Speak to one another with psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs. Sing and make music in your heart to the Lord.” 1C 14:26: When you come together, each person has music, has a revelation, has a language, has an interpretation. All things should be for construction.
Sing [Hebrew: to make music, celebrate in song and music] to the Lord for he has done glorious things. Let this be known in all the earth. Isaiah 12:5. While I understand what is being said in this discussion about the commercialisation and emotionalism of the current church's worship culture, the verses you wrote here are what came to my mind, too. The word of God gives us no command or confidence to stop singing in worship to him. Singing praise to God is mentioned throughout the Bible, including singing with others to praise God. The book of Revelation tells us that singing to God is done in heaven. I cannot adequately express how much hymns and spiritual songs have ministered to me over the past decade, and how God has spoken to me and revealed things to me through them. And to worship him with them is glorious - making music in my heart to the Lord is a lot of fun (I'm not musically talented at all, so it stays in my heart, haha)! And to have other believers recommending songs to me is so lovely, I've found some of my favourite songs this way. And I often find myself mentioning, 'There's a song that says..." when I'm speaking with Christians.
@@AllGoingToPlan Well said. It disturbed me when these two said they completely stopped singing in their ‘organic’ church. It seems like throwing the baby out with the bath water. ‘Mega churches put a big emphasis on music so we should do the opposite to do church right’. I’m surprised they are not aware of these basic scriptures.
@@tbe0116 It has troubled me, as well. Quite concerning to be presenting it as a teaching to other believers, and not simply as one particular experience they have had in their own walk with God along the way. As you wrote, it is a command given to the church to speak to one another in hymns and spiritual songs. It's certainly not the only way we are told to worship God, but it is clearly one of the ways commanded and spoken of in the Bible. I pray no one is turned away from doing it.
I’m absolutely loving this channel. Myself and another family decided to exit the traditional church and start a church in our homes. It’s been around 3 months. We are growing spiritually so much more than 20+ years in the “church”. We’re sold out for Christ and becoming Deciple’s. I can’t think of a better way to live than making deciples and watching God move powerfully in their lives. You guys are inspiring to watch.
The thought of repentance as a "change of mind" is the Greek view of sin. Repentance as a "changing of direction" is a Hebraic view of the sin. The act of sin begins in the mind, but then action is put to the thought and it becomes real and something to turn from. When we sin we're not just required to change our minds about it we are required to stop sinning and then "turn" or "flee" from our sin. When we sin we are walking away from Jesus and turn to the sin. When we truly repent, we turn away from sin and back towards Jesus.
Repent is metanoia in Greek. Defined as a change of mind..that s correct. But it never says the Greek view of sin. The definition of repent has changed over time until this is the only way many people understand or teach about that word. It can involve turning from sin but the gospel isn’t about US turning from sin to be saved, but to believe upon the Lord Jesus Christ. To put our full trust in him and him Alone. Not thing to do with us and our works. Ephesians 2:8-9. But to stay in fellowship with God, confessing our sin to God and with the power and help of the Holy Spirit, we will have the strength to turn from sin.
@@rosieds4996 My fingers moved faster than my thoughts. I did not mean to say it was the view of sin, but rather it was the view of repentance as a result of our sins. The understanding that repentance as a “change of mind” is from a Greek point of view and understanding, but remember, Jesus is and was a Jewish man. His thought process would have been as such and that’s where the Hebraic view of “to turn away” or “change direction” view of repentance would be a more accurate point of understanding. Now this does not dismiss the Greek view, but more accurately the two views give us a broader view of the act of repentance and a more complete understanding for obedience to Jesus’ teachings. Understand that a physical turning away from our sins is not a works based salvation, but it is being obedient to the gospel Jesus taught (Matthew 3:2). Repentance is very much the beginning of the gospel message and it has nothing to do with a works based salvation. Obedience to His commands is not sinful, it is the beginning of the walk to Kingdom righteousness and holiness (1 Peter 1:16).
Love your discussions. The intros are driving me nuts though, music is drowning out the talking. Just thought I would mention it :) you are doing good work!
Music wasn’t part of early church because it was considered temple activity which is no longer necessary. . “Worship” was prostration and giving sacrifice.
Not sure how many pastors are attached to a paycheck. Probably a bit strong on that. Many would turn over the paycheck. Butch we y do want to do well, paycheck or not.
He was just using it as an analogy. We agree that witchcraft is an issue in the church at large. We have seen tons of deliverance over the years in folks in the church, even people that were demonized in the church.
I am so thankful I have found people who think and feel the same way about Church and everything in it and about it as I do
Thank you God
so grateful for this podcast...makes us feel normal out here with what we are encouraging our friends in Amreica
Enjoyed your video and insights. Somewhere along the line, worship became associated with music and singing. But true worship is presenting yourself as a living sacrifice.
Amen
Yes
Yes in the good works that we were created for. Not as if the good works give us anything. But as our duty. In Full truth and spirit.
And Love most of all
Rich stuff, I really enjoyed the convo! "Our missiology must come before our ecclesiology..." what a fascinating thought that really contradicts the majority of church history. I'm gonna have to read Organic Church soon! Bless you guys!
Really good conversation. Thank you
This is literally what we are seeeing happen among the unreached in Mozambique!
Spectacular episode! What I needed to hear as a fellowship leader
Great discussion.
28:08 this is a crucial point. The American church has unfortunately been so deceived into
actually thinking they're worshipping God by singing the two slower songs after the three faster songs on Sunday during the so called "worship" service (which, by the way, the early church never participated in or referred to their gatherings as such. I recommend Dr. Tom Wadsworth's series on his channel to get a biblical understanding on this subject). It's unfortunate that most folks have never even been taught what true, New Testament worship is. It's therefore no wonder the church is in the shape it is when it doesn’t even have a solid foundation of what is literally the bedrock of our faith. But God is opening eyes and hearts to His longing to be worshipped in spirit and truth.
so much of the discipleship process is recognizing what soil they are and trutsting Holy Spirit to move them to the next possible soil and you waiting until they are prepared to bare fruit with patience, but not cater to it. We use this parable like crazy!
In Ephesians 5:19, Paul gives a direct command to the church: “Speak to one another with psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs. Sing and make music in your heart to the Lord.”
1C 14:26:
When you come together, each person has music, has a revelation, has a language, has an interpretation. All things should be for construction.
Sing [Hebrew: to make music, celebrate in song and music] to the Lord for he has done glorious things. Let this be known in all the earth. Isaiah 12:5.
While I understand what is being said in this discussion about the commercialisation and emotionalism of the current church's worship culture, the verses you wrote here are what came to my mind, too. The word of God gives us no command or confidence to stop singing in worship to him. Singing praise to God is mentioned throughout the Bible, including singing with others to praise God. The book of Revelation tells us that singing to God is done in heaven.
I cannot adequately express how much hymns and spiritual songs have ministered to me over the past decade, and how God has spoken to me and revealed things to me through them. And to worship him with them is glorious - making music in my heart to the Lord is a lot of fun (I'm not musically talented at all, so it stays in my heart, haha)! And to have other believers recommending songs to me is so lovely, I've found some of my favourite songs this way. And I often find myself mentioning, 'There's a song that says..." when I'm speaking with Christians.
@@AllGoingToPlan Well said. It disturbed me when these two said they completely stopped singing in their ‘organic’ church. It seems like throwing the baby out with the bath water. ‘Mega churches put a big emphasis on music so we should do the opposite to do church right’. I’m surprised they are not aware of these basic scriptures.
@@tbe0116 It has troubled me, as well. Quite concerning to be presenting it as a teaching to other believers, and not simply as one particular experience they have had in their own walk with God along the way. As you wrote, it is a command given to the church to speak to one another in hymns and spiritual songs. It's certainly not the only way we are told to worship God, but it is clearly one of the ways commanded and spoken of in the Bible. I pray no one is turned away from doing it.
Amen! The church is nothing without Christ. A church must be established on Christ, gathered to Him, and submit to Him as head.
I’m absolutely loving this channel. Myself and another family decided to exit the traditional church and start a church in our homes. It’s been around 3 months. We are growing spiritually so much more than 20+ years in the “church”. We’re sold out for Christ and becoming Deciple’s. I can’t think of a better way to live than making deciples and watching God move powerfully in their lives. You guys are inspiring to watch.
36:53 - Church: "it's the presence of Jesus among His people, called out as a spiritual family, to pursue His mission on this planet"
- Neil Cole
This is wonderful!
You're speaking my heart and mind.
Greetings from Norway 👍
Gen Z here I have been woken up to the truth thank you Jesus 🎉
👏
Divine truth, Nurturing relationships, Apostolic ministry…DNA
So good. Thank you!
Let's Go! Ty. NPL 24:14
The thought of repentance as a "change of mind" is the Greek view of sin. Repentance as a "changing of direction" is a Hebraic view of the sin. The act of sin begins in the mind, but then action is put to the thought and it becomes real and something to turn from. When we sin we're not just required to change our minds about it we are required to stop sinning and then "turn" or "flee" from our sin. When we sin we are walking away from Jesus and turn to the sin. When we truly repent, we turn away from sin and back towards Jesus.
Repent is metanoia in Greek. Defined as a change of mind..that s correct. But it never says the Greek view of sin. The definition of repent has changed over time until this is the only way many people understand or teach about that word. It can involve turning from sin but the gospel isn’t about US turning from sin to be saved, but to believe upon the Lord Jesus Christ. To put our full trust in him and him Alone. Not thing to do with us and our works. Ephesians 2:8-9. But to stay in fellowship with God, confessing our sin to God and with the power and help of the Holy Spirit, we will have the strength to turn from sin.
@@rosieds4996 My fingers moved faster than my thoughts. I did not mean to say it was the view of sin, but rather it was the view of repentance as a result of our sins. The understanding that repentance as a “change of mind” is from a Greek point of view and understanding, but remember, Jesus is and was a Jewish man. His thought process would have been as such and that’s where the Hebraic view of “to turn away” or “change direction” view of repentance would be a more accurate point of understanding. Now this does not dismiss the Greek view, but more accurately the two views give us a broader view of the act of repentance and a more complete understanding for obedience to Jesus’ teachings. Understand that a physical turning away from our sins is not a works based salvation, but it is being obedient to the gospel Jesus taught (Matthew 3:2). Repentance is very much the beginning of the gospel message and it has nothing to do with a works based salvation. Obedience to His commands is not sinful, it is the beginning of the walk to Kingdom righteousness and holiness (1 Peter 1:16).
In farming you can add straw etc to bad soil to enrich it with compost!
Love your discussions. The intros are driving me nuts though, music is drowning out the talking. Just thought I would mention it :) you are doing good work!
Thanks for the feedback, will take that into account
Amen. Yes he doesn't reproduce unfruitful things.
Let it be done on earth as it is in heaven. Hollowed be thy name. 🙏❤️🤲👑
Music wasn’t part of early church because it was considered temple activity which is no longer necessary. . “Worship” was prostration and giving sacrifice.
NT Scripture actually commands us to sing when we gather.
@@tbe0116singing and worship are two different things
Widows with Christ can thrive!
“Can we just make disciples..” has a nice ring. Sounds simple. Not sure it is.
our people group are farmers lol and that's what we have said as well!
Book store businesses also a convenience in the church building. Usa churches and university/ colleges are little cities
Not sure how many pastors are attached to a paycheck. Probably a bit strong on that. Many would turn over the paycheck. Butch we y do want to do well, paycheck or not.
👏
Sign me up Justin and Brooke!
Hello @cool mom
Hey hey
🦾🙌🙏🙏🙏
I'm one of the disenfranchised ones. I'd leave Gandolf out of thr church....he is a wizard and there's enough witchcraft in the church
He was just using it as an analogy. We agree that witchcraft is an issue in the church at large. We have seen tons of deliverance over the years in folks in the church, even people that were demonized in the church.
We have been a voice for 10 years friends! They are out there Gandalf (Neil) lol! be encouraged! @walkingwithian