Forgot to mention this in the video: Eagle-eyed viewers might notice on the screen I showed during my walkthrough, Division was supposed to fight a robot called Pipe Bomb. Unfortunately, like many others, Pipe Bomb was a no show so Division won by forfeit. Many robots were either not finished in time after getting registered or their builders decided not to attend at the last minute.
Great question, and the answer as with many such questions is "it depends." I recommend you check out www.robotcombatevents.com/ to see what weight classes have competitions in your area. That may well decide for you what class is better! The 3lb and 1lb classes both have the advantages of having kit robots available (D2 and Vector for 3lb, Fingertech Viper mainly for 1lb) and there is also a huge amount of parts available for these classes that are builder tested and approved (when I say parts I am referring to electronics like motors, ESC, batteries, etc, but also hardware components like wheels, wheel hubs, pulleys and gears). It should go without saying that in both weight classes spinning weapons can injure or kill you, and I strongly caution against people building a spinner for a first robot in any class. Fingertech's Viper kit is great because you can buy it as a wedge or lifter, and swap in modules later on for a spinner if you have learned how to safely handle that and built a proper test box to contain it, etc. It also has a large community of people who have one and can help troubleshoot any issues you may have. I also have a video (linked below) that talks more about this. Even if you aren't interested in starting with a kit and want to build your own robot from scratch, there is a lot to learn by following the tutorials and guides for kit robots since a lot of the same knowledge applies. ua-cam.com/video/-fyxuHzDUaY/v-deo.html
@@JustCuzRobotics Thank you for all the information! I went through the different competitions and NHRL is actually the closest to me. I might go with one of the kits mentioned for my first build. I started going through the process of picking out electronics, which went pretty smoothly. However, 3D modeling the robot and machining parts seems like a much more daunting task. Hopefully I can either get a kit or learn fusion 360 and use my college's makerspace to have a bot ready for this summer. Thank you again!
I was thinking of doing something in the 12lbs class for my first. I don't think I have the manufacturing ability to be small and light enough for the really little guys.
@@wishusknight3009 Yeah I realized that a little bit ago. I've got some new machining resources so I scaled things down to an antweight for a prototype.
Curious spectator here. Are there restrictions against programming and automation for these fights? Like could you program a micro with a gyro sensor to take over directional control using just the forces from the spinning weapon? What about automated object avoidance control? I have a naive high level idea that it would be fun to program a bot that could move more like a video game 2D fighting game, (not that I have the programming skills for it). I'm thinking like D-pad or A-joy direction inputs and action buttons that control specific complex tasks and combinations that are not directly related to single motor controls.
This comes up in discussion a fair bit. The answer is yes, those sorts of things are allowed at most competitions and there isn't much stopping you from implementing stuff like that from a rules perspective. However then you get into the territory of 'why bother'? At the end of the day wiring up plug and play RC controls and learning to drive your robot, being certain it will always do what you want when you want and nothing else, is safe, easy, and reliable. So while you CAN make these robots autonomous if you try hard enough, there is currently no real incentive to do so, and because it is necessarily more difficult and expensive, and likely less robust and less reliable, almost nobody bothers to try. There is also the possibility of having a runaway robot when you go autonomous and while there are lots of ways to implement safety overrides and such into a bot, it's still a dangerous thing to mess around with in your own home.
@@JustCuzRobotics I wouldn't start with a comprehensive type of thing. Instead, with a bot like Division, if the machine has established a level plane of operation, then a gyro sensor detects unexpected lift at the front of the machine when the blade is spinning and providing force on the forks, the micro responds by controlling the torque through rotation to effectively 'bow' the blade forward to the ground, tipping the machine with the maximum blade speed for the maneuver. This could be done with either direction of spin. If you are paired with any kind of wedge machine, you would essentially have a spinning axe to bare on an area well past the most reinforced front edge of a wedge. Beyond this, it might be seriously impressive if division had the ability to jump using gyroscopic inertia when you're in a vulnerable orientation. It might be possible to use a micro to jump and increase the likelihood of landing upright, or at the very least, prevent landing on the blade while powered and randomly 'break dancing' instead of a more controlled recovery. I totally understand how difficult it is to change hats from CAD to Fab to IDE though. Being a "Maker" is like being a Swiss Army Knife. You've got all the (skilz) tools, but none of them are the 'Best' tool for the job.
Even stuff like that would be weeks worth of effort for something that I would need to pray worked perfectly every time or it could cost me a fight. While manually activating the brake to 'hop' when stuck isn't as elegant as a system that does so automatically, how would I even determine what 'stuck' means with a micro? What if the gyro fails or the micro fails? Or both? Also again you have the automating a deadly weapon problem - very dangerous if things fail unexpectedly or behave differently than intended.
@@JustCuzRobotics Watchdog timers, both the ones internal to the μC and external watchdog chips can solve most of your safety concerns. If a human's reaction is estimated at 1/10th of a second from sensory input to physical output, a μC operating at just 10MHz has over 150k equivalent "seconds," or over 2k5 "hours," or 115 "days" of equivalent time to execute single cycle operations. Using the μC for this type of thing is like buying yourself days of time. The only question is how you would like to use it. Start simple. The "time" is there for anyone to play with but everyone seems to ignore it. That seems like the ideal place to explore new potential. My code is buggy as hell and often resembles a certain stringy Italian-American dish, but still it would be fun to try IMO. I've worked in, around, and maintained industrial heavy equipment before, so maybe I'm a bit less concerned with the testing and development. I don't have your degree and academic knowledge of strength of materials, so I overbuild the crap out of safety type stuff and rely on redundancy. It's called the bleeding edge for a reason though. -Jake
It's an interesting problem certainly. Maybe one day something I could play with at least for the sake of it. But maybe a bit outside what my core audience is here for.
That was an upgrade I discussed at length in my recent overview video. Long story short, I am using a pulley that has a specially designed hub which kinda clamps around the motor shaft so they are not completely locked together. The idea was to have it slip so only a portion of the shock load from the weapon stopping transfers to the motor.
Music during the post fight interviews was a little too loud. IDK if that was from the stream or whether you added that in post. If it was the latter, consider slightly lower gain? If it was the former, nothing you can do about it!
Thank you! There are always more improvements to make and problems to solve. Been following along with Ben's videos too, maybe someday he can make it down to the US for some Norwalk action, or maybe even Battlebots 2021/2022.
I have weight for wheel guards already but the robot kinda needs to have its wheels on the floor even while tilting at extreme angles due to gyro forces. I would need to design them very carefully to not hinder driving and self righting, plus it's hard to find a good way to attach them. I'm considering having a configuration that allows them for next time though.
I could tell how that first fight was going to go... big beater bar, low center of gravity, a lot more leverage with more of the bot on the ground and with it being lower... it's too bad, but not surprising. I still like your bot more.. it has more destructive potential against most bots, I would say.
Yeah that was tough. I am still working on how I can try to counter drum spinners and beater bars in the future when its almost impossible to avoid going weapon-on-weapon. A lot of the common defenses people use (long hinged forks for example) cannot easily be attached to Division, as my hope was always to keep the weapon-first approach. I might end up trying to make some modular front end attachments to handle different opponents, as right now the only part of the bot I can really change is the weapon. It works great against horizontal spinners and control bots (when I can drive) as-is but there are a ton of Fingertech beater bars and Lynx clones out there now.
@@JustCuzRobotics yeah that's a difficult question to answer. Aside from some unique addition like you were saying, I don't really know if there is another solution. At least you do seem to have some extra weight to play around with, so there is some possibility in the future, I'd say. One solution, could be to add 4 or so longer wedgelets onto the front, that can maybe feed up toward the weapon more, you'd have to get more under them to get a hit, but it could be beneficial against wedge bots and if it hits right, could even possibly be advantageous against a beater bar. I don't know though, just throwing out some ideas.
![Division V4: Hubmotor Weapon & Counter Gyro Put to the Test! [NHRL January 2024 Event Recap]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/dg-9NFLUqR4/mqdefault.jpg)
Forgot to mention this in the video: Eagle-eyed viewers might notice on the screen I showed during my walkthrough, Division was supposed to fight a robot called Pipe Bomb. Unfortunately, like many others, Pipe Bomb was a no show so Division won by forfeit. Many robots were either not finished in time after getting registered or their builders decided not to attend at the last minute.
Been waiting for this one ! Never clicked a link so fast, watched the live stream and always good to see it from another perspective
Just discovered norwalk and freaking love it!
Great video!! I really like the close up shots of the other robots after each figth!
This is beautiful. I love watching your bot fight and seeing mini mulcher was a great bonus.
Can't wait till I'm there
Division, dividing by 0 as usual!
Is Bloodsport from Connecticut? I have rooted for HUGE because they are in my home state, having Bloodsport be from Connecticut would be awesome!
Nope, it's built in Boston MA. Just happens that Justin Marple and I live near enough to Norwalk that we have both competed there separately.
I'm looking to get into combat robotics. Is the 3lb weight class a good one to start in?
Great question, and the answer as with many such questions is "it depends." I recommend you check out www.robotcombatevents.com/ to see what weight classes have competitions in your area. That may well decide for you what class is better!
The 3lb and 1lb classes both have the advantages of having kit robots available (D2 and Vector for 3lb, Fingertech Viper mainly for 1lb) and there is also a huge amount of parts available for these classes that are builder tested and approved (when I say parts I am referring to electronics like motors, ESC, batteries, etc, but also hardware components like wheels, wheel hubs, pulleys and gears).
It should go without saying that in both weight classes spinning weapons can injure or kill you, and I strongly caution against people building a spinner for a first robot in any class. Fingertech's Viper kit is great because you can buy it as a wedge or lifter, and swap in modules later on for a spinner if you have learned how to safely handle that and built a proper test box to contain it, etc. It also has a large community of people who have one and can help troubleshoot any issues you may have. I also have a video (linked below) that talks more about this. Even if you aren't interested in starting with a kit and want to build your own robot from scratch, there is a lot to learn by following the tutorials and guides for kit robots since a lot of the same knowledge applies.
ua-cam.com/video/-fyxuHzDUaY/v-deo.html
@@JustCuzRobotics Thank you for all the information! I went through the different competitions and NHRL is actually the closest to me. I might go with one of the kits mentioned for my first build. I started going through the process of picking out electronics, which went pretty smoothly. However, 3D modeling the robot and machining parts seems like a much more daunting task. Hopefully I can either get a kit or learn fusion 360 and use my college's makerspace to have a bot ready for this summer. Thank you again!
I was thinking of doing something in the 12lbs class for my first. I don't think I have the manufacturing ability to be small and light enough for the really little guys.
@@DigitalJedi The 3 pound bots are actually much larger than you would think. Division is about 12 inches wide for example.
@@wishusknight3009 Yeah I realized that a little bit ago. I've got some new machining resources so I scaled things down to an antweight for a prototype.
Curious spectator here. Are there restrictions against programming and automation for these fights? Like could you program a micro with a gyro sensor to take over directional control using just the forces from the spinning weapon? What about automated object avoidance control? I have a naive high level idea that it would be fun to program a bot that could move more like a video game 2D fighting game, (not that I have the programming skills for it). I'm thinking like D-pad or A-joy direction inputs and action buttons that control specific complex tasks and combinations that are not directly related to single motor controls.
This comes up in discussion a fair bit. The answer is yes, those sorts of things are allowed at most competitions and there isn't much stopping you from implementing stuff like that from a rules perspective. However then you get into the territory of 'why bother'?
At the end of the day wiring up plug and play RC controls and learning to drive your robot, being certain it will always do what you want when you want and nothing else, is safe, easy, and reliable. So while you CAN make these robots autonomous if you try hard enough, there is currently no real incentive to do so, and because it is necessarily more difficult and expensive, and likely less robust and less reliable, almost nobody bothers to try.
There is also the possibility of having a runaway robot when you go autonomous and while there are lots of ways to implement safety overrides and such into a bot, it's still a dangerous thing to mess around with in your own home.
@@JustCuzRobotics
I wouldn't start with a comprehensive type of thing. Instead, with a bot like Division, if the machine has established a level plane of operation, then a gyro sensor detects unexpected lift at the front of the machine when the blade is spinning and providing force on the forks, the micro responds by controlling the torque through rotation to effectively 'bow' the blade forward to the ground, tipping the machine with the maximum blade speed for the maneuver. This could be done with either direction of spin. If you are paired with any kind of wedge machine, you would essentially have a spinning axe to bare on an area well past the most reinforced front edge of a wedge.
Beyond this, it might be seriously impressive if division had the ability to jump using gyroscopic inertia when you're in a vulnerable orientation. It might be possible to use a micro to jump and increase the likelihood of landing upright, or at the very least, prevent landing on the blade while powered and randomly 'break dancing' instead of a more controlled recovery.
I totally understand how difficult it is to change hats from CAD to Fab to IDE though. Being a "Maker" is like being a Swiss Army Knife. You've got all the (skilz) tools, but none of them are the 'Best' tool for the job.
Even stuff like that would be weeks worth of effort for something that I would need to pray worked perfectly every time or it could cost me a fight. While manually activating the brake to 'hop' when stuck isn't as elegant as a system that does so automatically, how would I even determine what 'stuck' means with a micro? What if the gyro fails or the micro fails? Or both? Also again you have the automating a deadly weapon problem - very dangerous if things fail unexpectedly or behave differently than intended.
@@JustCuzRobotics
Watchdog timers, both the ones internal to the μC and external watchdog chips can solve most of your safety concerns. If a human's reaction is estimated at 1/10th of a second from sensory input to physical output, a μC operating at just 10MHz has over 150k equivalent "seconds," or over 2k5 "hours," or 115 "days" of equivalent time to execute single cycle operations. Using the μC for this type of thing is like buying yourself days of time. The only question is how you would like to use it. Start simple. The "time" is there for anyone to play with but everyone seems to ignore it. That seems like the ideal place to explore new potential.
My code is buggy as hell and often resembles a certain stringy Italian-American dish, but still it would be fun to try IMO. I've worked in, around, and maintained industrial heavy equipment before, so maybe I'm a bit less concerned with the testing and development. I don't have your degree and academic knowledge of strength of materials, so I overbuild the crap out of safety type stuff and rely on redundancy. It's called the bleeding edge for a reason though.
-Jake
It's an interesting problem certainly. Maybe one day something I could play with at least for the sake of it. But maybe a bit outside what my core audience is here for.
You mentioned a slip hub on you're weapon motor, can you elaborate more on what you did there?
That was an upgrade I discussed at length in my recent overview video. Long story short, I am using a pulley that has a specially designed hub which kinda clamps around the motor shaft so they are not completely locked together. The idea was to have it slip so only a portion of the shock load from the weapon stopping transfers to the motor.
Music during the post fight interviews was a little too loud. IDK if that was from the stream or whether you added that in post. If it was the latter, consider slightly lower gain? If it was the former, nothing you can do about it!
Yeah that was the stream. Might have to get a short range mic for next time, it was super loud in the pits
25:34 that makes me wonder how division would do as a gyro walker.
Division is getting better and better like Annie are u ok
Thank you! There are always more improvements to make and problems to solve. Been following along with Ben's videos too, maybe someday he can make it down to the US for some Norwalk action, or maybe even Battlebots 2021/2022.
Is there a way you can shave off weight to add wheel guards?
I have weight for wheel guards already but the robot kinda needs to have its wheels on the floor even while tilting at extreme angles due to gyro forces. I would need to design them very carefully to not hinder driving and self righting, plus it's hard to find a good way to attach them. I'm considering having a configuration that allows them for next time though.
Oh yeah, I didn’t think about the fact that it could be high centered on them
MULCHER TIME.
Are there any groups in Illinois? I am totally blind, but I’m fascinated with the sport!
www.circpeoria.org/
@@JustCuzRobotics what’s their Facebook under? Their email won’t work.
Can you do a video discussing Bloodsport's broken blade in the Gruff fight?
Any recaps from now on will be on the bloodsport channel. We'll have one for Gruff for sure eventually
@@JustCuzRobotics Cool, thanks!
I am very unlucky because in India there are no such event in which I can participate
BA BA BOOM !!!
Were you able to get an interview from the driver of Doom?
Nope, like I said in the video that team left shortly after our fight and I had to scramble for my next fight
@@JustCuzRobotics aw thats too bad.
I could tell how that first fight was going to go... big beater bar, low center of gravity, a lot more leverage with more of the bot on the ground and with it being lower... it's too bad, but not surprising. I still like your bot more.. it has more destructive potential against most bots, I would say.
Yeah that was tough. I am still working on how I can try to counter drum spinners and beater bars in the future when its almost impossible to avoid going weapon-on-weapon. A lot of the common defenses people use (long hinged forks for example) cannot easily be attached to Division, as my hope was always to keep the weapon-first approach. I might end up trying to make some modular front end attachments to handle different opponents, as right now the only part of the bot I can really change is the weapon. It works great against horizontal spinners and control bots (when I can drive) as-is but there are a ton of Fingertech beater bars and Lynx clones out there now.
@@JustCuzRobotics yeah that's a difficult question to answer. Aside from some unique addition like you were saying, I don't really know if there is another solution. At least you do seem to have some extra weight to play around with, so there is some possibility in the future, I'd say. One solution, could be to add 4 or so longer wedgelets onto the front, that can maybe feed up toward the weapon more, you'd have to get more under them to get a hit, but it could be beneficial against wedge bots and if it hits right, could even possibly be advantageous against a beater bar. I don't know though, just throwing out some ideas.
I’m surprised your mini bot isn’t called Addition
there is an event every month?!?
Almost! Roughly every 6 weeks
just wondering but what weapon motor do you use?
Cobra 2814/8
Lol @ the fake sponsors like hobo freight