The biggest problem with 5v5 is if you have a bad support, your other support can pick up the slack, you have a bad DPS, the other DPS can pick up the slack, if you have a bad tank, you just fucking lose.
This happened anyway, you just had two chances to have a bad tank. In fact, your tanks didn't even have to be bad if they just had conflicting hero pools you would just lose. I'd rather lose because my tank is shit than because my two random tanks don't have synergistic hero pools for the Meta. 😊
@@thebabycow Im confused. The meta thing still applies even in 5v5. If your tank doesnt play the tank of the patch then you just lose any way either way so nothing has changed from your position. "If my tank doesnt fit whats good then its an L."
No, you can't really pick up the slack. Once you have a shitter on your team that's dead weight, and the other team doesn't you lose. It is that simple. Its only way more knoticable if its the tank because there is only 1 of them. Many games i pick doomfist and my suport combo goes lucio and illari then wonder why were losing. Lucio gives doom 0 benifit in the game except a little added dive damage if they ain't stupid. Illari is the most worst pick as she can't even support a dive tank at all. Or they pick ana and get dove and blame the tank for not stopping them. If you dive and they dive your not counter dive their dive.
@@aerostrafe1075It's simple really. The "Tank synergy" arguement is a double bladed sword. You hear the "oh 6v6 works, we've been playing it in pubs" arguement, and it is true, but isn't entirely true. Pubs are highly controlled, and one thing that you really can't simulate are randoms. If the meta is Orisa/Sigma, you need both tanks to run Orisa/Sigma. If one god forbid goes Reinhardt, and the enemy ran Orisa Sigma, it's just as bad as 5v5 having a bad matchup, or worse because tank synergy is stupid strong that it's mandatory if one team has it. If one tank doesn't have the right hero pool, the other tank CANNOT make it up outside of Silver or lower lobbies. 5v5 has similar issues, but fixes the que time issues, which also caused more tank issues. Sure, tanks had near insta ques, but a lot of dps will play tank because they are bored of waiting, and then more so for the passes when they were added.
That patch which he claims was only balanced for top 500 had low queue times across all ranks which proves that as long as the games balanced (supports /sig/orisa) people will queue anything. Problem is with 1 tank it’s practically impossible to balance the game unless you make every tank have no weaknesses which is also boring.
@@abdx8752exactly because they also have to buff every tank up to being stronger than everyone else because they’re alone and have to deal with so much but making everyone a generalist waters down what makes overwatch so great and it’s the unique characters.
@@juantronftw Ok so the format was the problem and not OW1 - not getting content for 3 years - Only getting balance patches every 4 months - Still costing 20-60$ - Blizzard telling everybody to wait for Ow2 There are so many factors that causes long Qs in 2020, im not saying 6v6 wouldnt have longer Qs, but we know that sometime we had good Qs on all roles (Aaron stated this in a flats interview) Going to 5v5 without trying to makd 6v6 Live-Service and test Qs was ignorant
I thought that the Tanks where too powerful. And plenty of others did. That's why there was a time where there was no DPS characters on either side of the field. So wtf are you actually talking about here? The forced role queue in order to limit the amount of Tanks and supports that could play together and also allow DPS characters (whom took up the vast majority of the roster) to be usable. Did you forget all the stupid buffs to DPS characters to try and make them viable? Symm receiving ammo off Shields, Reaper doing crazy life steal, Junkrats damage. But none of that mattered because Tanks and Supports are too powerful lmao.
@@ReaveIdonoliterally everyone just says it was” only double shield”. It wasn’t fun getting dove by dva monkey wasn’t fun. Rein zarya running you down wasn’t fun and orisa hog wasn’t fun. Every good tank comp wasn’t fun for the person on the receiving end.
I'd rather have longer queue times and better quality matches than the shit we have to deal with now, data means nothing when the game feels shit to play, 6v6 was fun 5v5 makes me want to suckstart a shotgun
With all due respect, how tf does Sam invent evidence when he has provided proof time and time again. I love you Freedo but at this point yall 5v5ers are gaslighting us. Like even the Queue argument is bs. If overwatch 1 was free 2 play i guarantee it’d have even less queue times.
So true. His NDA he signed with Blizzard is showing... Peak gaslighting. 6v6 was never the problem. The pay wall and lack of dev patches for 18 months was.
I swear almost every one forgets that OW1 was a PAID BOX MODEL GAME that not everyone had access to because of paywall, and on top of that the devs abandoned the game for 2 plus years so of course que times were atrocious, and im so sick and tired of nearly EVERYONE neglecting this fact. If OW1 was free to play with the dev team we have now, 6v6 could ABSOLUTELY work, but people are so on board with the 5v5 train and can’t see the dynamite at the end of the tracks that we’ll never get to see it
@@shooterprime582just cuz u wanna go back to poke at the choke moba game where no one can do anything until someone gets ult doesnt mean the rest of us do
2-2-2 releasing with 8 Tanks, 16 DPS, 7 Supports obviously meant that DPS queues were gonna be the longest. They need to keep releasing more Tanks & Supports and go back to 2-2-2. What made Tank feel bad in OW1 was chain CC hitting Tank players the most because they're in front of the team and the biggest target. Cassidy Flashbang + 5 sec Ana Sleep + 5 sec ability lockout Sombra + Roadhog Hook, etc... It is obvious CC was out of control in OW1, but the devs did not even attempt to tackle the issue until OW2 5v5, so 2-2-2 was never given a chance.
Adding more characters isn’t gonna erase the problems. Especially considering that every time new characters are introduced a whole new set of problems arise. Balancing will be even more of a nightmare and unless they suddenly are influxed with cash and resources we won’t get enough characters in time
"The point is we have a dev team now trying to fix problems, rather than one that gaslights you into thinking they always have the right ideas." Freedo, you do realize by your own admission that old team was instrumental in the failure of 6v6? And also by your own admission, this new team has a much better chance of making 6v6 work if they were to go back to it. I understand being tired of the discussion, but you inadvertently agreed with Samito here. He blames 6v6's failure on the old dev team's failure to try and balance it. The fact is, more tank players are unsatisfied with the role now than ever before. The format change *IS* to blame for that. 6v6 should not be dismissed out of hand if this many people are sincerely asking for it to return
Think about WHY these people want 6v6. Or consider that theyre blinded by a specific era. I recall GOATS being hated. And I certainly wouldn't want the current OW team to work on something that they most likely DIDNT, back in OW1. Look at all the Tanks that are around since. They'd make GOATS stronger.
This isn't an admission though. You've only stated an alternate opinion that COULD work due to a new team. It also doesn't negate his point. Even though the previous dev team was trash doesn't refute the literal data and evidence of what happened with 6v6. Freedo's point is why go back when the data that we can see shows more negatives than positives.
6v6 was just a more fun time in general. Nobody wanted it to change, we wanted heroes to be playable. We needed Hero Bans not hero band aid solutions. If they brought 6v6 back, the game would surge in popularity imo
These are just dishonest arguments. All these argument were countered already many times, im honestly starting thinking you're just arguing in bad faith at this point. Bc you clearly know all the answers but just ignore them and continue repeating the same stuff.
Tuning down Tanks is exactly what got Tanks to not feel fun. Also, who is going to play Tank? Nobody did back then whether it was 6v6 Open Queue or Role Queue.
@@AlexNightif the role is fun people will play it, and tuning down tanks works because you have a second tank to reinforce your gameplay strategy, hold space, etc. Truth is tank really never was that fun to begin with BUT it was more fun back then due to the simplistic nature of having 2 tanks, 2 dps, 2 supports
@@AlexNight i said tune them down a bit not destroy them lol. To make up for the extra tank difference. Simple to take some of the stress off of a single tank because heals and dps like sombra are getting better and better. Tanking is fun imo and making them more fun would obviously bring more tank players back to OW. There might be increased Q times but w.e There is less shields and CC in overwatch 2 so i think a 2nd tank would improve the game tremendously. More pros than cons imo
@@grimjudgex it’s cuz how you worded ityou said you’ve always preferred, but you couldn’t have always preferred because it wasn’t available in overwatch 1. Weird way to word it to be honest. Sounds like something a mush brain 5 v 5er would say.
@@toons4934 I get what you mean by my wording, you're correct there. For clarification, I've preferred 5v5 over 6v6 ever since it was introduced. Regarding your last comment, incredibly uncalled for and says a lot more about you than it does me and my preference in a video game.
Well every casual i know prefers 6v6… like bro u know what casuals like: fun and diversity. So your saying casuals like ”shoot the tank” simulator more instead of more playstyles…
Even if its not the answer there is no reason that its not an arcade mode for those who want it so bad. They dont have to balance for it but let me play OG OW1 in arcade
They don't want it added peroid, because peooke will flock to it, and enjoy it more thsn thr 5v5 slop we have now, and these hogwash tubers will have to bite thr bullet and admit they were wrong for once instead of gobbling down on whatver thr overwatch team is putting in front of their face. That's ehy thry abhor any inclusion of it, fear of being proven wrong by the masses and directly told "nah, 6v6 is better." by population divide. Assuming if thst even happens.
6v6 is the intended way to play PvP because PvP was never meant to be balanced! The problem has always been trying to make a profitable eSports out of what started as a fun game. "Buff this, Nerf that, this meta, that meta". It's pretty obvious that this game is managed by the competitive community, which we all know is the worst. Freedo is like the spokesman of this agenda, always justifying bad decisions with the "is it balanced though?". THIS MENTALITY KILLED PvE, never forget that. 6v6 was fun and yes, sometimes it was awful but that's always gonna happen when you get paired with strangers, 5v5 is just a lazy way to reduce those odds
All games with player choice, competitive or not, have a meta. RPGs have meta builds. FPSs have meta weapons. MOBAs have meta items. So on and so on. Freedo has said multiple times over the years he cares more about fun than balance. He doesn't want change for the sake of change. If they strike a fun meta balance state, they should keep it for as long as possible.
@@Shzl47 When Freedo says "fun" he mostly means balanced competitive matches at every level. A fun meta is highly subjective by that standard, I had so much fun when Brig came out and Freedo despises those times because low-level Brig players were making their way into his ranked division. Prioritizing ranked mode at every meta has always been the issue, one that Freedo will never admit because, as a content creator, he's too comfortable sitting on his definition of "fun" which we all know is "not losing games because of hero power distribution", he wants change for the sake of competitive equality at every level, which makes him sound like a messiah if you're a ranked enjoyer. In team-based game in which you have no control over your team unless you pair up with 4 other players competitive should be the last concern in the devs agenda, unless, you know, they care more about profiting eSports and skins, which they do. Casual players have been screwed over since before OW2 launched because of this mentality
The FACT that players have had 20-30min queue times in ranked after only about a year and a half of OW2's lifespan really makes me question if that argument is even valid anymore. Currently D3 and my friend was Gold 1 so he decided to solo queue since he didn't want to wide queue. He spent 43mins before calling it quits while I was just on youtube chilling and chatting with him. That's insane, in 6v6 gold players would never have 40 min wait times unless it was at the very tail end of OW1. Let's not forget those streamers having to wait 2+hours for a match when they were "wide match" being GM5-GM2. Don't seem like it really made that big an impact.
@@YourOverwatch Sure we can say wide mm was broken, but how do you explain my friend in gold 1 spending 43 mins in solo queue? I'm just stating that splitting the ranked pool to go 2 different groups (wide and narrow) causes queue times in general to be longer for both pools. Even now solo queue times are around 10 mins long unless you're very unlucky that day. If we're looking at the facts then going from 6v6 to 5v5 didn't really fix queue times all that much. Sure it helped, but they just put a bandaid on it by taking out one of the tanks. Not saying we should go back to 6v6, but obviously if you take out 2 players it'll help queue times. But how many other ways could they've gone around it instead of straight up pulling the trigger of 5v5
Open queue in 2018 on Asia servers I’d wait about 60 seconds in Plat/Diamond games. Those were the days man. I’m a tank main but I quit when role queue came in. Let players be creative and strategise. Limiting variables limited the fun imo.
I dont know, using Q times to justify isolation the least played role and consistently creating a worse experience over time doesn't sound like it fixes the game. 5v5 was a temporary fix for players not wanting to play Tank, and Tank player population is still decreasing relative to the other roles. Saying 6v6 is not a better format than 5v5 is fine, but both OW and OW2 have a Tank role population problem that has not been fixed.
@@athonpandopulos5209 Well then you should blame those "plenty" for not playing the game enough since there was still not enough players playing tank. It's like people forget that most tank players were DPS players trying to get tickets and insta-locking Hog or Ball. Your anecdotal story doesn't match up with the actual numbers unfortunately.
@@GriFFonRec4no bro. That’s just what content creators tell you and your mush 5v5 brain can’t make up your own opinions. I had tons of tank dip teammates…. Now they all play support and I’m the only one left and even me I only q tank like 25% of the time now. I’d say there’s even less tank mains in 5v5 then 6v6. And fuck q times, should a role be fucking miserable just cuz you can’t wait 3 extra mins to get a game ?
@@toons4934 Hahaha man you 6v6 crusaders with your revisionism is something else. I've been playing OW since 2017. Tank was NEVER popular, and especially after 2018 when the playerbase started dwindling. It has always been the least fun and least played role. I remember there always being tank discourse even in OW1, even before the game stopped being updated. 6v6 isn't the answer and 5v5 isn't the answer. There is no answer. Fundamentally, the design of the game/heroes are the reason people leave this game. At it's core this game is annoying and almost infuriating to play, no matter what format you play it in. I honestly can't stand seeing 6v6 nostalgists gaslight people into thinking the previous format was this perfect dreamland when it wasn't anywhere close to it.
6v6 turned to 5v5 because the pro scene was so forced. The game needed to be watchable. The visual/audio clutter was reduced by two characters. I really feel people are forgetting how many reddit/forum posts were made regarding visual clutter. These posts trended once a week. But the game is more approachable for newbies to learn the game in a lobby of 10 instead of 12. The queue times were A reason not THE reason the format changed. Queue times is a good reason by itself, the tank pop was too low for two tanks. On top of that, the switch was a pretext to update the game's engine. At the end of the day, if you want to keep the map feeling full but reduce the action so that the individual player feels more control, reducing player count makes the most sense. It trims the fat from a bulky, chaotic match to a lean and direct experience. It also makes sense for tank to be the role dropped since it has the lowest pop. They're finally adapting solo tank for 5v5 after a long road and many many scandals. ABK tried to use OW1's launch success to pad their reputation and manipulated its development to this end. They promised things that the larger player base wanted, having no idea that popular vote doesn't work without thoughtful implementation. That's how we got uber-supports in OW2. That's why these tank changes are so late. Would I have preferred these tank adaptations way earlier? Yes. Would I have changed Armor Health in the first place? No. Am I ok with tank gameplay being better this mid-season than it has been for OW2's tenure? Obviously.
Didn’t he say OWL was destined for success and the OW2 needed to happen? Also didn’t he say the battle pass was fair and the hero locked behind it wasn’t pay to win??
Freedo posted a short explaining the best argument for 5v5 is que times and then explains that the dev team during 6v6 was incompetent.... Most 6v6ers argument to return to 6v6 is faith in the new dev team.....
People are fine playing tank. Open que is nothing but double and tripple tank teams who never switch off from playing tank. Tank players don't like playing tank alone, so they play open que en mass instead.@@ReaveIdono
Yeah I think it’s a good idea to nerf every hero in the most unpopular role, make the queue times for that role longer, make every game a coin flip whether or not your team picks a main tank, and draw resources away from the dev team to focus on reverting to 6v6 which would give us another content drought with no new heroes or maps
@azure5644 The return of the second tank makes those "Nerfs" obsolete when the entire role can actually be played again without being boiled down to rock paper scissors, que times are long for that role because solo tanking is absolute ass and no one wants the entire games win conditions to be solely on their shoulders, and if the devs didn't wanna have to put effort into reverting their massive mistake they should have thought about that a year and a half ago when they took a balanced game and shredded It to pieces to create the bullshit they have now. You realize almost ALL of their balance changes for the entire year and a half have revolved around the tank role right? Every major change to the game implemented so far has been an attempt to make the solo tank work properly and it's still far from happening. Reverting to 6v6 and having to rebalance the tank role is literally no different than what they've been doing all year to circumvent the damage 5v5 has caused to balance. Your whole argument is "Oh no, we can't ask the devs to actually do their jobs"
@seanschmeeckle6606 It's only Rock Paper Scissors because you suck at whichever tank you think is your favorite to play tbh. Do you think I switch off Dva when they go Zarya? That shows the other player is better than me and we are not having that.
We have 6 years of data proving queue times were good until the balance of the game declined, and even then, queue times were not an issue until higher elos of dps specifically during graveyard seasons.
That’s not what happened lol Que times started to become an issue ever since role Que was introduced. And we’re a major issue for DPs pretty much across all ranks during most hours of the day.
Fr. I played during open queue era and it was amazing. I’m a tank main and I quit once role queue was introduced. Game became very stale and picks and team comps became so limited and predictable
Sure buddy. Gaslight harder. Act like this want sn issue until 2 wast around. I remember when these channels were actualky good and reliable, now they just feel kinda washed up and scared of what will happen when the game fully dies
6v6 balance was great when Overwatch 1 was dead. In 5v5 there's only two possible solutions. Solution 1: 2xDPS, 1xTank, 1xSupport, 1xFlex tank/support Solution 2: 2xDPS, 3xFlex tank/support
I completely disagree. Patches and changes have shown 5v5 just doesnt work. Theyve gone in cyclical patches, where tanks are good, dps are good, healers are good, and every time the other two lacking roles are unhappy. Theyve even done this in the tank role over all. Every tank in ow2 has had its meta, and so much of them have been hated by the fanbase. There were some definite problem children/metas in ow1 but i never heard consistent hate like we have in 5v5. Over powered any role is unfun, single tank is unbalancable and too psychologically demanding and they need to bring back a 2v2v2 format to balance it or a new mode. 7v7 doesnt sound bad if we tone down the animations.
The other annoying things about october patch is that it didnt last long enough to be tested. We soon received a brig health rebuff of 25, then everyone realised double shield still wholey worked, even after the same nerf to brig again. Also, if dps were more popular in lower ranks, and tank and support in upper, just by fruit of a continuum those stats must crossover somewhere along the ranks.
Queue times are still garbo, 15 minutes for a QUICKPLAY lobby, you’ve practically destroyed the game and multiple character, including Hanzo, removing 1 shot capabilities from a projectile character, and taking 3 body shots to kill the opponent is just straight gutter material. 6v6 was better, felt better, and more approved by the community, no matter what the development team thinks, give the players what THEY want
so you want 1 hour queues instead of 15mins. I love this quote so much because gamers hate it because its true. "You think you do but you don't". You like the concept and idea, but have no idea how to implement it or how it should work or should be balanced. And when its implemented it not going be in the exact idealic way you wanted it to be. "But its the devs job to figure it out" So let the devs try to figure something that works since you lack any ability to do so. If you really want to change and develop something join the dev team or make your own game. But you won't, because you can't, because all you are is a mouth on the internet with no actual ability/talent or any notable skill.
@@chevoyingram9589 2 points about your very condescending comment that I thought were rather obvious but apparently went over your head. First, the quote you’re using was literally used by blizzard to argue against releasing one of, if not the most successful piece of content they have EVER released for ANY of their ips. Using this quote here after they were so catastrophically wrong about their opinion does no favours to the credibility of your argument. Second, it is fallacious to claim that because you lack the ability to create something means you have no right to critique it. I don’t need to be a world class singer to know someone is bad at singing when I hear them. In the same way I don’t need to be a games developer to critique bad game design choices when I see them. Bad content is bad content and good content is good content whether or not I have the capability of recreating that content myself, this is just ignorant argument from authority nonsense.
@@chevoyingram9589 ok chevoyingram9589 you’re going to tell me ow1 had longer queue times for a QUICKPLAY game, sure, you’re low rank so understanding the game doesn’t fit your narrative, moth or whatever you called me I’m in the top percentile of the game so I have more of a say of how the game is played or supposed to be played than you do, keep your rhetoric and ignorant comment to yourself
The fact that you attribute better q times PURELY to 5v5 and not the game being free is just evidence that you're not as smart as you think you are on this topic. You are obsessed with this univariate analysis of the """data"""
If they were acting like they "had all the answers" during 6v6. They would have patched the game and changed content more than a handful of times in the 3 years they fully neglected it. Neither side has the answer. People just get passionate about thier preference and that's fine.
Frogger said it best by saying he likes whatever makes Lucio more viable. Wish more OW players had that type of honesty. People only want the form they win more at. The “I just wanna have fun” argument flies out the window when you see how many people rage in this game when they’re not winning
This comment makes no sense. Unfortunately, these comments happen more often than giving actual legit facts of why some people think 5v5 is better than 6v6 when it isnt.
@xXZinogreXx if you don't like OW2 5v5 then quite complaining about the game and trying to change what everyone else is enjoying and just go back to playing 6v6 OW1 if it was so great and problem free back then
@@greenecarlos93 A balance issue they never actually addressed because they abandoned the game for two years to give us an updated cash shop and one less tank. That fact always gets missed by shills like Freedo.
With the custom game mode, they should just allow us to make the 6v6 and let the community make up the stats for everyone. I bet you it would be CHAOZ!!!!! LET THE CHAOZ BEGIN!!
devs abandoned the game for 3 years, ofc q times went to shit... there was NO HYPE and a failing esports scene. pair that awful decisions regarding game balance brig and post brig (immorts, stacked/burst/aoe healing, etc). do me a favor and next time you login to play tank, legit try oneticking either doom or winston and youll see very quickly why 5v5 is NOT the answer. also, we absolutely should listen to ppl who play at a high level, they understand the game, fundamentally, the most lol
5v5 seems so chaotic and has no strategy or structure. If I want that I’d rather play COD. That’s why OW has lost a lost of market share with OW2 to other games because it’s just so similar to every other game out there now. OW peaked in 2018. Just run it back. Also 6v6 open queue I would insta fill a lobby every time I played. Back then if you wanted to win you’d flex if needed or discuss with teamates and figure it out. I played on Asia servers and we always figured it out, it was great. Maybe American egos are the problem haha (jks)
I actually think that the game should be balanced like Samito is saying. He's a tier 2 player and former pro player. OW is a competitive game. If you want to play some casual crap game then go play PUBG or CoD. It's time to make OW ranked actually be a competitive experience instead of pandering to everyone. In no world is that acceptable for a competitive game. Blizzard needs to stop letting low skill ceiling heroes like bastion, mercy, Orisa, and moira get buff and buff. Half of OW2 has consisted off Orisa or Bastion as the meta, and that is also completely unacceptable, and to be frank, that is part of the problem of why OW2 is a casual game. Blizzard doesn't actually take competitive balance seriously. They are too busy balancing the around casual player, and sure that is fine if you want to be a quick play andy, but delete competitive as a mode if they not even going to try to do make the competitive experience actually mean something..... Enough is enough. Bring back 6v6 already. Buff the high skill ceiling heroes, nerf the Mercys, Moiras, and Orisa's of the world, and focus on making the game watchable and understandable so that outsiders can tune in an now feel confused.
Every single pro 5v5 argument completely ignores the fact that the developers abandoned the game and never actually properly balanced problematic heroes. Now we only balance complete outliers quickly and slowly power creep everything up so we dont offend support players with nerfs. And after all their efforts, the game feels terrible anyway. Why? Because 6v6 IS NOT OVERWATCH. You cannot measure community sentiment of the game based on queue times. The game did not fail because of queue times, it failed because of negligence and mismanagement. The entire community is flocking over to Marvel Rivals because they’re starved for a good hero shooter experience and everybody can see it! Freedo is an idiot and always will be folks.
Really wish I could see the dislikes on this post lol 😂 5v5 is trash. Quit after OW2 launch, but might just come back for 6v6. BTW - counter arguments: 1. In 6v6, if 1 teammate dies (especially tank) you still have a fighting chance rather than an instant snowball team wipe like in 5v5 2. The 2nd tank in 6v6 spreads out the team fights on maps, rather than centralizing the fight wherever the tank is 3. In 5v5, having the worse tank player usually carries a greater impact on your team's win potential. 6v6 will allow one or both tanks to potentially carry 4. 6v6 will increase multitasking across all roles and require more focus and increase difficulty i.e. +1 enemy to track location, cool downs 5. Opens up WAY more team compositions with supports / dps not being beholden to tank having shield or not for example 6. 6v6 fights are more fast pace and better than 5v5 without a doubt. 1 person dies in 5v5... team wipe...and the snowball for cooldowns begins losing all fights after 7. You're deep in denial and this post is already way TLDR on a YT short 😅
What a garbage argument, as expected. OW1's issues were due to the devs making some balance mistakes and then fucking off in the middle of OW1 development to work on OW2 with all the problems intact. OW2's problems seem to stem inherently from trying to balance a game where the team roles are inherently imbalanced(2 healers, 2 supports, only 1 tank). Queue times are literally the only argument against 6v6, and thats essentially just arguing that the best fix is to screw over one role to give other roles shorter queues. And then continuously breaking the balance of the game to alternate between appeasing tanks(that is, overpowering them despite that NOT being what tanks are asking for) and appeasing dps/support(by nerfing those buffed tanks). But keep on shilling, bruh. "6v6 was clearly the issue" just like "PvE will be coming out soon, please visit the cash shop while you wait"
I wonder if they had released more interesting tanks during 6v6 that drew people to the role if that would have improved queue times. There just wasn’t enough options. So the fix was to artificially balance queue times by removing a tank. Then suddenly every player that queues tank now effectively counts as double. Imagine zarya junker queen as a combo. That could have been fun
In OW1 we rarely got anything to balance the game, the game wasn't free 2 play either. Tanks were expected to go shield characters if your team was getting stomped. If we even had half the support OW2 gets I think Queue times would of went way down. But who wants to play a tank into double shield every other game? Zarya was one of my favorites to play, but you couldn't play into double shield with her. If you go to far you just get your supports shielded off, if your playing like Rein you can't do anything about all the shields and without a bastion or junkrat double shield was nearly impossible to stop. Also the amount of CC in OW1 on tank was ridiculous. Mei freeze, Cassidy stun, right click, flip then right click again before you could even move. Your video I just watch you said the devs didn't care about balance or updating in OW1 "it would work itself out". Then come out and say we have to go 5v5 because we can't fix 6v6. Because they didn't even care to try, this comes directly from their mouths and YOUR video.
Go back to open queue. Problem solved. If you want to win, flex. If you don’t, 6 dps it is. Why do all these cry babies complain to the devs when their ego is the issue
I hate when freedoo speaks with so much conviction like is 100% alright it’s his opinion it doesn’t mean he’s right smh I haven’t actually heard of 100% subjective opinion from yourself except the Que times I know you love the game and I know you think you understand the game but stop thinking you’re more intelligent than everyone else it’s so obnoxious stop thinking what’s right for the game it’s your opinion your it’s not the secret holy grail of truth
Bruh People liked 6v6 even with flaws People don’t like 5v5 however they try to put it Only argument is queue times, and it can be worked around League of legends has autofill, not the best thing, but is a solution Just try 6v6 and see everyone happy except YOUROVERWATCY
Queue times improve with a good and fun game people want to play ow1 was abandoned for years queue times were not an issue until that point additionally ow2 is FTP it's a completely unfair comparison 5v5 does not address the issue of queue times. Sam does not fabricate evidence everything he says is cogent he uses hyperbole to get his point across because that's what is required. How long must we wait until the Devs realise that the game built for 6v6 was meant to have 6v6 in it? They've tried 5v5 it failed go back to 6v6.
There's no way you genuinely believe 5v5 is better than 6v6 after seeing all of these changes. This literally makes the most oppressive tanks more oppressive and the other tanks unkillable but still unusable. The tank interactions are still unsolved and the counter swapping tank game is still an abhorrent issue. The gameay loop in overwatch 2 is simply a worse product than in overwatch 1.
"Sam makes up evidence" talk about insincere arguments. And literal projection. Your lack of actual evidence snd just saying "evidence says "x"" then not add a shred of evidence. People just need to put away their prejudices and biases and have a real discussion. Queue times is thee only thing with any actual evidence of credence, have not heard anything else from freedo so far. And queue times have valid reasons why they can be improved and would be improved with 6v6. Support became the most played tole. Not dps for a long time. Why? Because they added fun support. They have fun tanks now too (didn't really in 6v6). They still need more tanks but the queue times would get better with more fun tanks. But even if queue times never get better, because of 5v5 format. Queue times are becoming the same.issue with 6v6. So if queue times are going to be bad either way then 5v5 loses its last leg to stand on. Logic >> feelings freedo.
I agree with you, and 5v5 is better for the everyday queue experience and casual gaming, but 6v6 had more tactical depth and variety of expression to it through off-tank play. I think that is the superior esport - reliant on role lock and perhaps even main tank role lock - but what remains either way is the visual mess that the game comes through as via video compression, which makes it harder to market than the many slower or less visually complex games it competes with. I think there should be a section of the dev team committed to figuring out how to visually declutter combat for broadcast, because hanzo ult, sym barrier and a few other abilities just destroy the viewing experience too easily. Overwatch has a unique ability to tap into the individual strengths of players with its hero fantasy and variety, and that is starting to get lost in an effort to generate 'consistency', as though esports growth through CSGO and MOBA-type games was/is commensurate with absolute skill expression rather than accessible gameplay and rusted-on nostalgia. Certainly, 6v6 role lock could easily replace open queue in the unranked and competitive menus without needing significant balance passes after the first patch, and I think the recent armor and tank passive reworks reflect that the devs are considering this in a similar way to Fortnite splits builds and zero build modes. Ok thanks for coming to my accidental ted talk if you read this far. 🤣
6v6 is balanced and it is the fix. There is absolutely nothing anyone can say to change my mind. The wait times were only an issue when there was a content drought and people started drifting away from the game. If Blizzard would add it back into the game as additional content people would see that it doesn't affect the wait times at all. Nobody wants to play tank when they are singled out and destroyed when they should be a WALL against the opposing team. Also, side note...I don't give a rat's ass about professionals or the like, it's the casuals (just regular players without a voice) that keep the game alive. And they are the ones who keep saying they want it back. So you know, "do the math".
Some crazy smooth brain takes here ngl, Overwatch is more popular then it was for years, basically any comp is viable rn in 5v5, and we get consistent content. But sure keep being blinded by 2016/2017 nostalgia from when you were in high school.
Who is saying that 6v6 was balanced? What I know is that 6v6 was better than 5v5 is now. Some of that may be the extra crap they added like Kiriko and role passives, but id take Spetember 2022 Overwatch over current Overwatch.
If the balance team didn’t stuff up the support role in overwatch 1 we wouldn’t be having this argument. Because we’d still be on ow1 6v6 didn’t break the game nor did it break que times. It was simply the fact that tanks became puppeted by OP support imos and 2 specific tank characters that were ow2 characters in ow1 that ruined the game. Your que time argument simply isn’t relevant and it’s sheet of paper for an argument. Just because que times are 3 minutes shorter doesn’t make the game a better game or a better format.
We have six years of data, but it's from a development team that didn't really seem to care too much, If the development team back then was as committed to the player experience as the current development team, things may have looked very different.
OW2 is free to play. OW1 wasnt. OW2 has a dev team actively patching things. OW1 didnt. The que times argument has no validity anymore. The NDA you signed with Blizzard is severely biasing your opinion, and it shows.
So if the issue is with the dev team, would it be fair to say the current dev team could also try to fix the balance issues of 6v6?? Hypothetically if the old dev team (the gaslighters) was balancing 5v5 every person would be advocating to move away from 5v5. The argument for 6v6 is still valid because 6v6 was never given a fair go with balance as the dev team abandoned the game, and yet it was still way better at its best than 5v5 has ever been.
2 tanks was just the same combos again and again, they have rein zar you have rein dva? You’ll probably lose. Repeat for all the meta combos. 5v5 puts the tanks agency in MY hands, if I do my job then my team has a good tank instead of having to rely on someone when I can now do the job myself. Also flexing is good cause it’s a skill to be good at every hero
In no way shape or form did anyone ask for 5v5. Q times would have been just fine in 6v6 if the devs didnt waste their time on making pve and 5v5. All they had to do was just simply focused on making the roles fun to play. Not letting characters have GOJ free cards, reworking or nerfing double sheild, and etc, all these things they let sit in the game for so long made the rest of overwatch 1s longevity miserable. Whats so hard about staying consistent with what made the game fun to play and learn? So are we just gonna keep throwing shit at the wall and hope it sticks with 5v5 instead of simply cleaning the dirty gem that was 6v6 overwatch? Cmon lets be real here.
6v6 only makes the game "more fun" for tank players, and shifts the burden onto DPS, and certain support players. Luckily, the types of players who want another tank in the game are the types of players I hate to see in my matches, so please, stop whinging and just quit already.
I'm never looking into a 6v6 5v5 comment section again, the amount of drama and rewriting history is insane, you guys deleted all ow 1 history from your minds and keep romanticizing about a game that never existed. We are not discussing 6v6 we are discussing a version of 6v6 that only exists on theory.
one less player on my team to carry one less enemy to deal with,. seriously only bad people can complain about this. matter of fact games like league of legends valorant 5v5 or 1v1 3v3 quake apex legend, imho there is something about having that odd number is like a golden ratio formula
Imagine saying the game was never balanced like its a point againt 6v6 when Overwatch 1 had quite literally the worst balance team in gaming history and the hero designers were working off of the terrible idea of making the game easier over time by making brain dead free value characters like Orisa and Brig
Do mauga meta all over again then abandon the game for 2 years like they did ow. Then compare queue times. This guy flagrantly ignores that the game was abandoned because it's the only period of time in which he can use to make his point against 6v6.
You are flat wrong and purposely ignoring that OW1 was not a free to play game, and that's why queue times were much longer. 5v5 is an issue, and you alongside the overwatch devs plainly refuse to even acknowledge it.
I mean 3 of that 6 years was whit almost 0 efort from the developers, thay alredy did more balance in 2 years of ow2 that in all 6 years of ow1 so maybe is that the problem and not the format.
You can't take any criticism, youre so heavily invested in this game anytime anyone says anything you say they are wrong. YOU are wrong, get cucked by blizzard lmao.
6 years of data on a payed game which updates came in slow, without a battle pass and a team scared of doing balance changes.... yeah, no one complained on the format after role queqe, but ow 2 is a format issue, is free and tank feels incomplete and unfun
Samito just complains in every video for years, annoying as hell. Dude is trapped playing a game he hates cuz he based his career off it back when he liked it smh
But you still keep up to date on it? That’s like checking in on your ex just move on if your really done with it lol. Tired of these people staying in the community who “don’t play this game anymore” just to talk shit about it.
But why not bring back a 6v6 mode so everyone can be happy ? People who wnnna experience that can get to enjoy / hate the game but have a choice rather than being forced to play this bs 5v5
Freedo, ask yourself why supports need even more bail out abilities in this game, DPS tier damage, and the same healing stats as 6v6? To defend themselves due to lack of 2nd tank and extend teamfight duration beyond instant deathmatch fights. Can’t nerf them or they’ll whine about having to be good. Why do tanks have to be gigatanks, all have the playstyle of standing main, and no weaknesses? 5v5. Can’t change it because they’ll get lit up more than they already are. Why does DPS need a passive to be relevant in 5v5 with supports/tanks like this? Which in turn this passive makes those roles more annoying to play? 5v5… we are trapped in a balancing conundrum by the format, and tank is paying the price the most yet again. That’s why the devs have been flailing in all the patches throwing stuff at the wall to see what sticks. They would have a better time in 6v6, and we’d see how easily it was fixed because the devs were THAT BAD. People like Samito and myself complained in OW1 all the time because the best game ever is right there but they refused to acknowledge the issues, then in order to keep adding game ruining things like overkittited tanks and immos, they went to 5v5 so it didn’t feel as egregious. BUT IT’S STILL THERE.
ok so lets disregard samito and your argument. if its just my opinion i hate 5v5 with a passion and your arguments [except queue times] sounds like lunacy to me
I’m with you on the one shot hate. If we really want to get rid of absolutely all of them and just make the game a first person moba I guarantee we’ll see people leave the game and people will say support is too strong.
I dont understand... are people forgetting how overwatch 1 lacked updates to the game? Are people forgetting about the content droughts? 6v6 was never given the same treatment as 5v5, and it's because of the lack of updates and content that the people left the game. Hence, the longer queue times were a result of people leaving. People leaving was the result of a lack of updates and content.
Freedo is gaslighting to defend his paycheck. He argues as if the game wasn't abandoned by devs for multiple years, and as if the issues with OW1 were inherent to 6v6 rather than no real balance attempts after dropping the meta shattering Brigette and Sigma. Hell, most of the changes to Orisa alone in the change to OW2 killed double shields.
my point has always been that 6v6 had a way worse balance team so we never got to see the best of it. seeing how i liked ow1 better anyway that means with a better balance team and the game actually receiving updates 6v6 would be even better lmao
I fr can’t believe ppl r really saying this any1 who thinks 6v6 is better is prolly new to the game or so cooked it doesn’t matter wat they do they will never stop playing
I don't know where in the world that you get off ditching samito but 6v6 is the answer because it was more fun than what the current system now is and I would rather not put money towards it
queue time isn’t an argument though the player base decreased from no updates queue time gonna be just as bad in ow2 in 10 seasons if we get same of what we getting now
The biggest problem with 5v5 is if you have a bad support, your other support can pick up the slack, you have a bad DPS, the other DPS can pick up the slack, if you have a bad tank, you just fucking lose.
This happened anyway, you just had two chances to have a bad tank. In fact, your tanks didn't even have to be bad if they just had conflicting hero pools you would just lose. I'd rather lose because my tank is shit than because my two random tanks don't have synergistic hero pools for the Meta. 😊
@@thebabycow Im confused. The meta thing still applies even in 5v5. If your tank doesnt play the tank of the patch then you just lose any way either way so nothing has changed from your position.
"If my tank doesnt fit whats good then its an L."
No, you can't really pick up the slack. Once you have a shitter on your team that's dead weight, and the other team doesn't you lose. It is that simple. Its only way more knoticable if its the tank because there is only 1 of them.
Many games i pick doomfist and my suport combo goes lucio and illari then wonder why were losing. Lucio gives doom 0 benifit in the game except a little added dive damage if they ain't stupid. Illari is the most worst pick as she can't even support a dive tank at all. Or they pick ana and get dove and blame the tank for not stopping them. If you dive and they dive your not counter dive their dive.
@@Side85Winder you play doomfist and wonder why you lose? 🤡 here's a clue: it's not your support
@@aerostrafe1075It's simple really. The "Tank synergy" arguement is a double bladed sword. You hear the "oh 6v6 works, we've been playing it in pubs" arguement, and it is true, but isn't entirely true. Pubs are highly controlled, and one thing that you really can't simulate are randoms. If the meta is Orisa/Sigma, you need both tanks to run Orisa/Sigma. If one god forbid goes Reinhardt, and the enemy ran Orisa Sigma, it's just as bad as 5v5 having a bad matchup, or worse because tank synergy is stupid strong that it's mandatory if one team has it. If one tank doesn't have the right hero pool, the other tank CANNOT make it up outside of Silver or lower lobbies. 5v5 has similar issues, but fixes the que time issues, which also caused more tank issues. Sure, tanks had near insta ques, but a lot of dps will play tank because they are bored of waiting, and then more so for the passes when they were added.
5v5 this 6v6 that, the true answer is 7v7
Nah 12v12
Battlefield
40 vs 40 and add 1 every time they add a new hero is the answer.
20v1
@@awesomeguy5583what playing mercy feels like
6v6 queues shouldn’t be as bad in a free game. In my opinion 6v6 is more fun too
After playing since launch I gotta disagree 6v6 was peak
6v6 was peak tho...
@@worldsmadness4828why did you put the dots at the end?
That patch which he claims was only balanced for top 500 had low queue times across all ranks which proves that as long as the games balanced (supports /sig/orisa) people will queue anything. Problem is with 1 tank it’s practically impossible to balance the game unless you make every tank have no weaknesses which is also boring.
@@abdx8752exactly because they also have to buff every tank up to being stronger than everyone else because they’re alone and have to deal with so much but making everyone a generalist waters down what makes overwatch so great and it’s the unique characters.
@@worldsmadness4828 he meant that 6v6 was peak yeah
Nobody thought 6v6 was the problem until they removed a tank.
This is peak gaslighting
We’ve never had enough tank players for 6v6, that is a problem.
@@juantronftw Ok so the format was the problem and not OW1
- not getting content for 3 years
- Only getting balance patches every 4 months
- Still costing 20-60$
- Blizzard telling everybody to wait for Ow2
There are so many factors that causes long Qs in 2020, im not saying 6v6 wouldnt have longer Qs, but we know that sometime we had good Qs on all roles (Aaron stated this in a flats interview)
Going to 5v5 without trying to makd 6v6 Live-Service and test Qs was ignorant
I thought that the Tanks where too powerful. And plenty of others did. That's why there was a time where there was no DPS characters on either side of the field. So wtf are you actually talking about here? The forced role queue in order to limit the amount of Tanks and supports that could play together and also allow DPS characters (whom took up the vast majority of the roster) to be usable. Did you forget all the stupid buffs to DPS characters to try and make them viable? Symm receiving ammo off Shields, Reaper doing crazy life steal, Junkrats damage. But none of that mattered because Tanks and Supports are too powerful lmao.
@@ReaveIdonoliterally everyone just says it was” only double shield”. It wasn’t fun getting dove by dva monkey wasn’t fun. Rein zarya running you down wasn’t fun and orisa hog wasn’t fun. Every good tank comp wasn’t fun for the person on the receiving end.
I'd rather have longer queue times and better quality matches than the shit we have to deal with now, data means nothing when the game feels shit to play, 6v6 was fun 5v5 makes me want to suckstart a shotgun
6v6 was never the issue, it was the overpowered characters. In overwatch 2, 5v5 is the issue.
With all due respect, how tf does Sam invent evidence when he has provided proof time and time again. I love you Freedo but at this point yall 5v5ers are gaslighting us. Like even the Queue argument is bs. If overwatch 1 was free 2 play i guarantee it’d have even less queue times.
Also isn't Freedo inventing evidence himself? He had brought up none during the podcast.
So true. His NDA he signed with Blizzard is showing... Peak gaslighting. 6v6 was never the problem. The pay wall and lack of dev patches for 18 months was.
The problem wasn't free to play. The problem was that nobody wanted to play tank.
@@Thermalfusi0n
I played Tank in OW1 but I'm also just one person...
Sam does sometimes he makes problems that weren’t really problems but like he also says things that are actual problems
I swear almost every one forgets that OW1 was a PAID BOX MODEL GAME that not everyone had access to because of paywall, and on top of that the devs abandoned the game for 2 plus years so of course que times were atrocious, and im so sick and tired of nearly EVERYONE neglecting this fact. If OW1 was free to play with the dev team we have now, 6v6 could ABSOLUTELY work, but people are so on board with the 5v5 train and can’t see the dynamite at the end of the tracks that we’ll never get to see it
Double shield?
@@FGPlus could be fixed with new dev team, plus the tanks weren’t even the problem with double shield comp, it was the supports played in it
@@FGPluswhere? Orisa being reworked is now fixed
@@shooterprime582just cuz u wanna go back to poke at the choke moba game where no one can do anything until someone gets ult doesnt mean the rest of us do
@@zkilla2924....so what we have now?? Just with slightly less bad maps for it??? Come thr fuck on bro lmfao
But 6v6 is the answer
2-2-2 releasing with 8 Tanks, 16 DPS, 7 Supports obviously meant that DPS queues were gonna be the longest. They need to keep releasing more Tanks & Supports and go back to 2-2-2.
What made Tank feel bad in OW1 was chain CC hitting Tank players the most because they're in front of the team and the biggest target. Cassidy Flashbang + 5 sec Ana Sleep + 5 sec ability lockout Sombra + Roadhog Hook, etc... It is obvious CC was out of control in OW1, but the devs did not even attempt to tackle the issue until OW2 5v5, so 2-2-2 was never given a chance.
Adding more characters isn’t gonna erase the problems. Especially considering that every time new characters are introduced a whole new set of problems arise. Balancing will be even more of a nightmare and unless they suddenly are influxed with cash and resources we won’t get enough characters in time
this
Would love 6v6 to come back. 5v5 was such a a mistake
"The point is we have a dev team now trying to fix problems, rather than one that gaslights you into thinking they always have the right ideas."
Freedo, you do realize by your own admission that old team was instrumental in the failure of 6v6? And also by your own admission, this new team has a much better chance of making 6v6 work if they were to go back to it.
I understand being tired of the discussion, but you inadvertently agreed with Samito here. He blames 6v6's failure on the old dev team's failure to try and balance it.
The fact is, more tank players are unsatisfied with the role now than ever before. The format change *IS* to blame for that. 6v6 should not be dismissed out of hand if this many people are sincerely asking for it to return
These channels feel so washed up sometimes it feels so weird I used to look to them.
Think about WHY these people want 6v6. Or consider that theyre blinded by a specific era. I recall GOATS being hated. And I certainly wouldn't want the current OW team to work on something that they most likely DIDNT, back in OW1.
Look at all the Tanks that are around since. They'd make GOATS stronger.
@@Walt_Xander94how would goats exist with role queue?
@@Walt_Xander94bro y u talking about fucking goats when role q happened. What a dumb argument
This isn't an admission though. You've only stated an alternate opinion that COULD work due to a new team. It also doesn't negate his point. Even though the previous dev team was trash doesn't refute the literal data and evidence of what happened with 6v6. Freedo's point is why go back when the data that we can see shows more negatives than positives.
6v6 was just a more fun time in general. Nobody wanted it to change, we wanted heroes to be playable.
We needed Hero Bans not hero band aid solutions.
If they brought 6v6 back, the game would surge in popularity imo
These are just dishonest arguments. All these argument were countered already many times, im honestly starting thinking you're just arguing in bad faith at this point. Bc you clearly know all the answers but just ignore them and continue repeating the same stuff.
I guess we know who’s keeping the lights on at his house
6v6 is the answer. Tune down tanks a bit and bring back the 2nd tank.
Tuning down Tanks is exactly what got Tanks to not feel fun. Also, who is going to play Tank? Nobody did back then whether it was 6v6 Open Queue or Role Queue.
@@AlexNight Tanks were fun in ow1, never been fun in ow2. I rest my case
@@juusoleinonennope if tank was fun in overwatch 2 why did no one play tank. Que times unless you played tank was long as frick
@@AlexNightif the role is fun people will play it, and tuning down tanks works because you have a second tank to reinforce your gameplay strategy, hold space, etc. Truth is tank really never was that fun to begin with BUT it was more fun back then due to the simplistic nature of having 2 tanks, 2 dps, 2 supports
@@AlexNight i said tune them down a bit not destroy them lol. To make up for the extra tank difference. Simple to take some of the stress off of a single tank because heals and dps like sombra are getting better and better.
Tanking is fun imo and making them more fun would obviously bring more tank players back to OW. There might be increased Q times but w.e
There is less shields and CC in overwatch 2 so i think a 2nd tank would improve the game tremendously. More pros than cons imo
Frito why can’t you just admit 6v6 was better ? Just fucking admit it, you know it’s true.
Dunno, I always preferred 5v5 so
@@grimjudgex You didn't prefer it when it wasn't an option before ow2. xDD
@@fizzyghost3389 How can I prefer an option that wasn't available? Lmao
@@grimjudgex it’s cuz how you worded ityou said you’ve always preferred, but you couldn’t have always preferred because it wasn’t available in overwatch 1. Weird way to word it to be honest. Sounds like something a mush brain 5 v 5er would say.
@@toons4934 I get what you mean by my wording, you're correct there. For clarification, I've preferred 5v5 over 6v6 ever since it was introduced. Regarding your last comment, incredibly uncalled for and says a lot more about you than it does me and my preference in a video game.
Well every casual i know prefers 6v6… like bro u know what casuals like: fun and diversity. So your saying casuals like ”shoot the tank” simulator more instead of more playstyles…
Even if its not the answer there is no reason that its not an arcade mode for those who want it so bad. They dont have to balance for it but let me play OG OW1 in arcade
They don't want it added peroid, because peooke will flock to it, and enjoy it more thsn thr 5v5 slop we have now, and these hogwash tubers will have to bite thr bullet and admit they were wrong for once instead of gobbling down on whatver thr overwatch team is putting in front of their face. That's ehy thry abhor any inclusion of it, fear of being proven wrong by the masses and directly told "nah, 6v6 is better." by population divide. Assuming if thst even happens.
You give an inch, they take a mile. the community will not be satisfied with just an arcade mode.
@@S0UPIE
We aren't satisfied with our broken game now, so why not boycott?
@@Adventist1997 Do it then, don't play the game, nobody is stopping you.
Yeah, let’s wait till season 5844838383 when they figure out patching isn’t enough.
5v5 sucks, always will - stop carrying water for blizzard its embarrassing
6v6 is the intended way to play PvP because PvP was never meant to be balanced! The problem has always been trying to make a profitable eSports out of what started as a fun game. "Buff this, Nerf that, this meta, that meta". It's pretty obvious that this game is managed by the competitive community, which we all know is the worst. Freedo is like the spokesman of this agenda, always justifying bad decisions with the "is it balanced though?". THIS MENTALITY KILLED PvE, never forget that. 6v6 was fun and yes, sometimes it was awful but that's always gonna happen when you get paired with strangers, 5v5 is just a lazy way to reduce those odds
All games with player choice, competitive or not, have a meta. RPGs have meta builds. FPSs have meta weapons. MOBAs have meta items. So on and so on.
Freedo has said multiple times over the years he cares more about fun than balance. He doesn't want change for the sake of change. If they strike a fun meta balance state, they should keep it for as long as possible.
@@Shzl47 When Freedo says "fun" he mostly means balanced competitive matches at every level. A fun meta is highly subjective by that standard, I had so much fun when Brig came out and Freedo despises those times because low-level Brig players were making their way into his ranked division. Prioritizing ranked mode at every meta has always been the issue, one that Freedo will never admit because, as a content creator, he's too comfortable sitting on his definition of "fun" which we all know is "not losing games because of hero power distribution", he wants change for the sake of competitive equality at every level, which makes him sound like a messiah if you're a ranked enjoyer. In team-based game in which you have no control over your team unless you pair up with 4 other players competitive should be the last concern in the devs agenda, unless, you know, they care more about profiting eSports and skins, which they do. Casual players have been screwed over since before OW2 launched because of this mentality
6v6 is definately the right answer, the only answer
I HAVE ONE WORD AND ONE WORD ONLY: 6V6
The FACT that players have had 20-30min queue times in ranked after only about a year and a half of OW2's lifespan really makes me question if that argument is even valid anymore. Currently D3 and my friend was Gold 1 so he decided to solo queue since he didn't want to wide queue. He spent 43mins before calling it quits while I was just on youtube chilling and chatting with him. That's insane, in 6v6 gold players would never have 40 min wait times unless it was at the very tail end of OW1. Let's not forget those streamers having to wait 2+hours for a match when they were "wide match" being GM5-GM2. Don't seem like it really made that big an impact.
Wide mm has been broken
@@YourOverwatch Sure we can say wide mm was broken, but how do you explain my friend in gold 1 spending 43 mins in solo queue? I'm just stating that splitting the ranked pool to go 2 different groups (wide and narrow) causes queue times in general to be longer for both pools. Even now solo queue times are around 10 mins long unless you're very unlucky that day. If we're looking at the facts then going from 6v6 to 5v5 didn't really fix queue times all that much. Sure it helped, but they just put a bandaid on it by taking out one of the tanks. Not saying we should go back to 6v6, but obviously if you take out 2 players it'll help queue times. But how many other ways could they've gone around it instead of straight up pulling the trigger of 5v5
Open queue in 2018 on Asia servers I’d wait about 60 seconds in Plat/Diamond games. Those were the days man.
I’m a tank main but I quit when role queue came in. Let players be creative and strategise. Limiting variables limited the fun imo.
Yeah, it was never "balanced". Tanks were always extremely subject/vulnerable to counter swaps.
Thing was, you could have the other tank act as a counterweight to prevent the game just turning into counterwatch.
Getting banned from this game is a blessing
Ah, another man of culture. Take me back to MW2 lobbies pls
I dont know, using Q times to justify isolation the least played role and consistently creating a worse experience over time doesn't sound like it fixes the game.
5v5 was a temporary fix for players not wanting to play Tank, and Tank player population is still decreasing relative to the other roles.
Saying 6v6 is not a better format than 5v5 is fine, but both OW and OW2 have a Tank role population problem that has not been fixed.
I haven't touched tank since the launch of ow2 tho I used to play tank heaps in ow1. Plenty of ppl I talk to say the exact same thing.
@@athonpandopulos5209 Well then you should blame those "plenty" for not playing the game enough since there was still not enough players playing tank.
It's like people forget that most tank players were DPS players trying to get tickets and insta-locking Hog or Ball. Your anecdotal story doesn't match up with the actual numbers unfortunately.
@@GriFFonRec4no bro. That’s just what content creators tell you and your mush 5v5 brain can’t make up your own opinions. I had tons of tank dip teammates…. Now they all play support and I’m the only one left and even me I only q tank like 25% of the time now. I’d say there’s even less tank mains in 5v5 then 6v6. And fuck q times, should a role be fucking miserable just cuz you can’t wait 3 extra mins to get a game ?
@@toons4934 Hahaha man you 6v6 crusaders with your revisionism is something else. I've been playing OW since 2017. Tank was NEVER popular, and especially after 2018 when the playerbase started dwindling. It has always been the least fun and least played role. I remember there always being tank discourse even in OW1, even before the game stopped being updated. 6v6 isn't the answer and 5v5 isn't the answer. There is no answer. Fundamentally, the design of the game/heroes are the reason people leave this game. At it's core this game is annoying and almost infuriating to play, no matter what format you play it in. I honestly can't stand seeing 6v6 nostalgists gaslight people into thinking the previous format was this perfect dreamland when it wasn't anywhere close to it.
6v6 turned to 5v5 because the pro scene was so forced. The game needed to be watchable.
The visual/audio clutter was reduced by two characters. I really feel people are forgetting how many reddit/forum posts were made regarding visual clutter. These posts trended once a week. But the game is more approachable for newbies to learn the game in a lobby of 10 instead of 12. The queue times were A reason not THE reason the format changed. Queue times is a good reason by itself, the tank pop was too low for two tanks. On top of that, the switch was a pretext to update the game's engine. At the end of the day, if you want to keep the map feeling full but reduce the action so that the individual player feels more control, reducing player count makes the most sense. It trims the fat from a bulky, chaotic match to a lean and direct experience. It also makes sense for tank to be the role dropped since it has the lowest pop.
They're finally adapting solo tank for 5v5 after a long road and many many scandals. ABK tried to use OW1's launch success to pad their reputation and manipulated its development to this end. They promised things that the larger player base wanted, having no idea that popular vote doesn't work without thoughtful implementation. That's how we got uber-supports in OW2. That's why these tank changes are so late. Would I have preferred these tank adaptations way earlier? Yes. Would I have changed Armor Health in the first place? No. Am I ok with tank gameplay being better this mid-season than it has been for OW2's tenure? Obviously.
The one thing freedo is wrong about
Didn’t he say OWL was destined for success and the OW2 needed to happen? Also didn’t he say the battle pass was fair and the hero locked behind it wasn’t pay to win??
@@Ardyrezvokay maybe he was wrong about a few things lol
Freedo posted a short explaining the best argument for 5v5 is que times and then explains that the dev team during 6v6 was incompetent.... Most 6v6ers argument to return to 6v6 is faith in the new dev team.....
Except having a better dev team still won't fix that people don't like playing Tank lol.
People are fine playing tank. Open que is nothing but double and tripple tank teams who never switch off from playing tank. Tank players don't like playing tank alone, so they play open que en mass instead.@@ReaveIdono
Yeah I think it’s a good idea to nerf every hero in the most unpopular role, make the queue times for that role longer, make every game a coin flip whether or not your team picks a main tank, and draw resources away from the dev team to focus on reverting to 6v6 which would give us another content drought with no new heroes or maps
@azure5644 The return of the second tank makes those "Nerfs" obsolete when the entire role can actually be played again without being boiled down to rock paper scissors, que times are long for that role because solo tanking is absolute ass and no one wants the entire games win conditions to be solely on their shoulders, and if the devs didn't wanna have to put effort into reverting their massive mistake they should have thought about that a year and a half ago when they took a balanced game and shredded It to pieces to create the bullshit they have now. You realize almost ALL of their balance changes for the entire year and a half have revolved around the tank role right? Every major change to the game implemented so far has been an attempt to make the solo tank work properly and it's still far from happening. Reverting to 6v6 and having to rebalance the tank role is literally no different than what they've been doing all year to circumvent the damage 5v5 has caused to balance. Your whole argument is "Oh no, we can't ask the devs to actually do their jobs"
@seanschmeeckle6606 It's only Rock Paper Scissors because you suck at whichever tank you think is your favorite to play tbh. Do you think I switch off Dva when they go Zarya? That shows the other player is better than me and we are not having that.
fuck 5v5, 6v6 is better.
6v6 adjustments workshop goated af
We have 6 years of data proving queue times were good until the balance of the game declined, and even then, queue times were not an issue until higher elos of dps specifically during graveyard seasons.
That’s not what happened lol Que times started to become an issue ever since role Que was introduced. And we’re a major issue for DPs pretty much across all ranks during most hours of the day.
Fr. I played during open queue era and it was amazing. I’m a tank main and I quit once role queue was introduced. Game became very stale and picks and team comps became so limited and predictable
Sure buddy. Gaslight harder. Act like this want sn issue until 2 wast around.
I remember when these channels were actualky good and reliable, now they just feel kinda washed up and scared of what will happen when the game fully dies
6v6 balance was great when Overwatch 1 was dead.
In 5v5 there's only two possible solutions.
Solution 1: 2xDPS, 1xTank, 1xSupport, 1xFlex tank/support
Solution 2: 2xDPS, 3xFlex tank/support
I completely disagree. Patches and changes have shown 5v5 just doesnt work. Theyve gone in cyclical patches, where tanks are good, dps are good, healers are good, and every time the other two lacking roles are unhappy. Theyve even done this in the tank role over all. Every tank in ow2 has had its meta, and so much of them have been hated by the fanbase. There were some definite problem children/metas in ow1 but i never heard consistent hate like we have in 5v5. Over powered any role is unfun, single tank is unbalancable and too psychologically demanding and they need to bring back a 2v2v2 format to balance it or a new mode. 7v7 doesnt sound bad if we tone down the animations.
The other annoying things about october patch is that it didnt last long enough to be tested.
We soon received a brig health rebuff of 25, then everyone realised double shield still wholey worked, even after the same nerf to brig again.
Also, if dps were more popular in lower ranks, and tank and support in upper, just by fruit of a continuum those stats must crossover somewhere along the ranks.
I love how samito always defends freedo, but freedo always speaks of him in a condescending way
The game is dead. You really should find something else to cover and rename your channel. Sorry man, I used to love the game too.
Queue times are still garbo, 15 minutes for a QUICKPLAY lobby, you’ve practically destroyed the game and multiple character, including Hanzo, removing 1 shot capabilities from a projectile character, and taking 3 body shots to kill the opponent is just straight gutter material. 6v6 was better, felt better, and more approved by the community, no matter what the development team thinks, give the players what THEY want
so you want 1 hour queues instead of 15mins. I love this quote so much because gamers hate it because its true.
"You think you do but you don't".
You like the concept and idea, but have no idea how to implement it or how it should work or should be balanced. And when its implemented it not going be in the exact idealic way you wanted it to be.
"But its the devs job to figure it out"
So let the devs try to figure something that works since you lack any ability to do so. If you really want to change and develop something join the dev team or make your own game.
But you won't, because you can't, because all you are is a mouth on the internet with no actual ability/talent or any notable skill.
@@chevoyingram9589 2 points about your very condescending comment that I thought were rather obvious but apparently went over your head. First, the quote you’re using was literally used by blizzard to argue against releasing one of, if not the most successful piece of content they have EVER released for ANY of their ips. Using this quote here after they were so catastrophically wrong about their opinion does no favours to the credibility of your argument. Second, it is fallacious to claim that because you lack the ability to create something means you have no right to critique it. I don’t need to be a world class singer to know someone is bad at singing when I hear them. In the same way I don’t need to be a games developer to critique bad game design choices when I see them. Bad content is bad content and good content is good content whether or not I have the capability of recreating that content myself, this is just ignorant argument from authority nonsense.
@@chevoyingram9589 ok chevoyingram9589 you’re going to tell me ow1 had longer queue times for a QUICKPLAY game, sure, you’re low rank so understanding the game doesn’t fit your narrative, moth or whatever you called me I’m in the top percentile of the game so I have more of a say of how the game is played or supposed to be played than you do, keep your rhetoric and ignorant comment to yourself
You say six years but it feels like eight because a lot of these problems never left.
The fact that you attribute better q times PURELY to 5v5 and not the game being free is just evidence that you're not as smart as you think you are on this topic. You are obsessed with this univariate analysis of the """data"""
If they were acting like they "had all the answers" during 6v6. They would have patched the game and changed content more than a handful of times in the 3 years they fully neglected it. Neither side has the answer. People just get passionate about thier preference and that's fine.
Frogger said it best by saying he likes whatever makes Lucio more viable. Wish more OW players had that type of honesty. People only want the form they win more at. The “I just wanna have fun” argument flies out the window when you see how many people rage in this game when they’re not winning
All the salty ass people who want 6v6 should just go back and play OW1 then if they like it so damn much 🤦♂️
This comment makes no sense. Unfortunately, these comments happen more often than giving actual legit facts of why some people think 5v5 is better than 6v6 when it isnt.
@xXZinogreXx if you don't like OW2 5v5 then quite complaining about the game and trying to change what everyone else is enjoying and just go back to playing 6v6 OW1 if it was so great and problem free back then
@@mcwrekx1998the reason so many people are complaining is because they axed ow1. You can't play it anymore
6v6 was objectively better than 5v5
“Invents evidence” as if we don’t have proof that a balanced 6v6 state led to balanced queue times
6v6= long Dps queues because of double shields
5v5 = long tank queues because of Counterwatch
Double shield is a balance issue counterwatch is a format issue big difference
@@greenecarlos93 A balance issue they never actually addressed because they abandoned the game for two years to give us an updated cash shop and one less tank. That fact always gets missed by shills like Freedo.
Oh Samito don’t make that faceeee 😭😭😭
"Nice argument, unfortunately I have labeled yours as subjective and mine as objective, therefore you are wrong. Remember to subscribe!"
With the custom game mode, they should just allow us to make the 6v6 and let the community make up the stats for everyone. I bet you it would be CHAOZ!!!!! LET THE CHAOZ BEGIN!!
This aged like sour milk
devs abandoned the game for 3 years, ofc q times went to shit... there was NO HYPE and a failing esports scene. pair that awful decisions regarding game balance brig and post brig (immorts, stacked/burst/aoe healing, etc). do me a favor and next time you login to play tank, legit try oneticking either doom or winston and youll see very quickly why 5v5 is NOT the answer. also, we absolutely should listen to ppl who play at a high level, they understand the game, fundamentally, the most lol
5v5 seems so chaotic and has no strategy or structure. If I want that I’d rather play COD. That’s why OW has lost a lost of market share with OW2 to other games because it’s just so similar to every other game out there now.
OW peaked in 2018. Just run it back.
Also 6v6 open queue I would insta fill a lobby every time I played.
Back then if you wanted to win you’d flex if needed or discuss with teamates and figure it out. I played on Asia servers and we always figured it out, it was great.
Maybe American egos are the problem haha (jks)
I actually think that the game should be balanced like Samito is saying. He's a tier 2 player and former pro player. OW is a competitive game. If you want to play some casual crap game then go play PUBG or CoD. It's time to make OW ranked actually be a competitive experience instead of pandering to everyone. In no world is that acceptable for a competitive game. Blizzard needs to stop letting low skill ceiling heroes like bastion, mercy, Orisa, and moira get buff and buff. Half of OW2 has consisted off Orisa or Bastion as the meta, and that is also completely unacceptable, and to be frank, that is part of the problem of why OW2 is a casual game. Blizzard doesn't actually take competitive balance seriously. They are too busy balancing the around casual player, and sure that is fine if you want to be a quick play andy, but delete competitive as a mode if they not even going to try to do make the competitive experience actually mean something..... Enough is enough. Bring back 6v6 already. Buff the high skill ceiling heroes, nerf the Mercys, Moiras, and Orisa's of the world, and focus on making the game watchable and understandable so that outsiders can tune in an now feel confused.
Every single pro 5v5 argument completely ignores the fact that the developers abandoned the game and never actually properly balanced problematic heroes.
Now we only balance complete outliers quickly and slowly power creep everything up so we dont offend support players with nerfs.
And after all their efforts, the game feels terrible anyway. Why? Because 6v6 IS NOT OVERWATCH.
You cannot measure community sentiment of the game based on queue times. The game did not fail because of queue times, it failed because of negligence and mismanagement. The entire community is flocking over to Marvel Rivals because they’re starved for a good hero shooter experience and everybody can see it!
Freedo is an idiot and always will be folks.
Really wish I could see the dislikes on this post lol 😂 5v5 is trash.
Quit after OW2 launch, but might just come back for 6v6.
BTW - counter arguments:
1. In 6v6, if 1 teammate dies (especially tank) you still have a fighting chance rather than an instant snowball team wipe like in 5v5
2. The 2nd tank in 6v6 spreads out the team fights on maps, rather than centralizing the fight wherever the tank is
3. In 5v5, having the worse tank player usually carries a greater impact on your team's win potential.
6v6 will allow one or both tanks to potentially carry
4. 6v6 will increase multitasking across all roles and require more focus and increase difficulty i.e. +1 enemy to track location, cool downs
5. Opens up WAY more team compositions with supports / dps not being beholden to tank having shield or not for example
6. 6v6 fights are more fast pace and better than 5v5 without a doubt. 1 person dies in 5v5... team wipe...and the snowball for cooldowns begins losing all fights after
7. You're deep in denial and this post is already way TLDR on a YT short 😅
What a garbage argument, as expected. OW1's issues were due to the devs making some balance mistakes and then fucking off in the middle of OW1 development to work on OW2 with all the problems intact. OW2's problems seem to stem inherently from trying to balance a game where the team roles are inherently imbalanced(2 healers, 2 supports, only 1 tank).
Queue times are literally the only argument against 6v6, and thats essentially just arguing that the best fix is to screw over one role to give other roles shorter queues. And then continuously breaking the balance of the game to alternate between appeasing tanks(that is, overpowering them despite that NOT being what tanks are asking for) and appeasing dps/support(by nerfing those buffed tanks).
But keep on shilling, bruh. "6v6 was clearly the issue" just like "PvE will be coming out soon, please visit the cash shop while you wait"
I wonder if they had released more interesting tanks during 6v6 that drew people to the role if that would have improved queue times. There just wasn’t enough options. So the fix was to artificially balance queue times by removing a tank. Then suddenly every player that queues tank now effectively counts as double. Imagine zarya junker queen as a combo. That could have been fun
In OW1 we rarely got anything to balance the game, the game wasn't free 2 play either. Tanks were expected to go shield characters if your team was getting stomped. If we even had half the support OW2 gets I think Queue times would of went way down. But who wants to play a tank into double shield every other game? Zarya was one of my favorites to play, but you couldn't play into double shield with her. If you go to far you just get your supports shielded off, if your playing like Rein you can't do anything about all the shields and without a bastion or junkrat double shield was nearly impossible to stop. Also the amount of CC in OW1 on tank was ridiculous. Mei freeze, Cassidy stun, right click, flip then right click again before you could even move. Your video I just watch you said the devs didn't care about balance or updating in OW1 "it would work itself out". Then come out and say we have to go 5v5 because we can't fix 6v6. Because they didn't even care to try, this comes directly from their mouths and YOUR video.
Go back to open queue. Problem solved. If you want to win, flex. If you don’t, 6 dps it is. Why do all these cry babies complain to the devs when their ego is the issue
People always talking about bringing 6v6 gotta be the most annoying type of people u'd met like damn talk about something else
I hate when freedoo speaks with so much conviction like is 100% alright it’s his opinion it doesn’t mean he’s right smh I haven’t actually heard of 100% subjective opinion from yourself except the Que times I know you love the game and I know you think you understand the game but stop thinking you’re more intelligent than everyone else it’s so obnoxious stop thinking what’s right for the game it’s your opinion your it’s not the secret holy grail of truth
Bruh
People liked 6v6 even with flaws
People don’t like 5v5 however they try to put it
Only argument is queue times, and it can be worked around
League of legends has autofill, not the best thing, but is a solution
Just try 6v6 and see everyone happy except YOUROVERWATCY
Queue times improve with a good and fun game people want to play ow1 was abandoned for years queue times were not an issue until that point additionally ow2 is FTP it's a completely unfair comparison 5v5 does not address the issue of queue times. Sam does not fabricate evidence everything he says is cogent he uses hyperbole to get his point across because that's what is required. How long must we wait until the Devs realise that the game built for 6v6 was meant to have 6v6 in it? They've tried 5v5 it failed go back to 6v6.
There's no way you genuinely believe 5v5 is better than 6v6 after seeing all of these changes. This literally makes the most oppressive tanks more oppressive and the other tanks unkillable but still unusable. The tank interactions are still unsolved and the counter swapping tank game is still an abhorrent issue. The gameay loop in overwatch 2 is simply a worse product than in overwatch 1.
"Sam makes up evidence" talk about insincere arguments. And literal projection. Your lack of actual evidence snd just saying "evidence says "x"" then not add a shred of evidence. People just need to put away their prejudices and biases and have a real discussion. Queue times is thee only thing with any actual evidence of credence, have not heard anything else from freedo so far. And queue times have valid reasons why they can be improved and would be improved with 6v6. Support became the most played tole. Not dps for a long time. Why? Because they added fun support. They have fun tanks now too (didn't really in 6v6). They still need more tanks but the queue times would get better with more fun tanks. But even if queue times never get better, because of 5v5 format. Queue times are becoming the same.issue with 6v6. So if queue times are going to be bad either way then 5v5 loses its last leg to stand on. Logic >> feelings freedo.
Every single issue with OW can be triangulated to a social/psychological misbehavior that Blizzard deliberately chose to not address
I agree with you, and 5v5 is better for the everyday queue experience and casual gaming, but 6v6 had more tactical depth and variety of expression to it through off-tank play.
I think that is the superior esport - reliant on role lock and perhaps even main tank role lock - but what remains either way is the visual mess that the game comes through as via video compression, which makes it harder to market than the many slower or less visually complex games it competes with.
I think there should be a section of the dev team committed to figuring out how to visually declutter combat for broadcast, because hanzo ult, sym barrier and a few other abilities just destroy the viewing experience too easily.
Overwatch has a unique ability to tap into the individual strengths of players with its hero fantasy and variety, and that is starting to get lost in an effort to generate 'consistency', as though esports growth through CSGO and MOBA-type games was/is commensurate with absolute skill expression rather than accessible gameplay and rusted-on nostalgia.
Certainly, 6v6 role lock could easily replace open queue in the unranked and competitive menus without needing significant balance passes after the first patch, and I think the recent armor and tank passive reworks reflect that the devs are considering this in a similar way to Fortnite splits builds and zero build modes.
Ok thanks for coming to my accidental ted talk if you read this far. 🤣
6v6 is balanced and it is the fix. There is absolutely nothing anyone can say to change my mind. The wait times were only an issue when there was a content drought and people started drifting away from the game. If Blizzard would add it back into the game as additional content people would see that it doesn't affect the wait times at all. Nobody wants to play tank when they are singled out and destroyed when they should be a WALL against the opposing team. Also, side note...I don't give a rat's ass about professionals or the like, it's the casuals (just regular players without a voice) that keep the game alive. And they are the ones who keep saying they want it back. So you know, "do the math".
Some crazy smooth brain takes here ngl, Overwatch is more popular then it was for years, basically any comp is viable rn in 5v5, and we get consistent content. But sure keep being blinded by 2016/2017 nostalgia from when you were in high school.
Who is saying that 6v6 was balanced? What I know is that 6v6 was better than 5v5 is now. Some of that may be the extra crap they added like Kiriko and role passives, but id take Spetember 2022 Overwatch over current Overwatch.
If the balance team didn’t stuff up the support role in overwatch 1 we wouldn’t be having this argument. Because we’d still be on ow1 6v6 didn’t break the game nor did it break que times. It was simply the fact that tanks became puppeted by OP support imos and 2 specific tank characters that were ow2 characters in ow1 that ruined the game. Your que time argument simply isn’t relevant and it’s sheet of paper for an argument. Just because que times are 3 minutes shorter doesn’t make the game a better game or a better format.
We have six years of data, but it's from a development team that didn't really seem to care too much, If the development team back then was as committed to the player experience as the current development team, things may have looked very different.
OW2 is free to play. OW1 wasnt. OW2 has a dev team actively patching things. OW1 didnt. The que times argument has no validity anymore. The NDA you signed with Blizzard is severely biasing your opinion, and it shows.
So if the issue is with the dev team, would it be fair to say the current dev team could also try to fix the balance issues of 6v6?? Hypothetically if the old dev team (the gaslighters) was balancing 5v5 every person would be advocating to move away from 5v5. The argument for 6v6 is still valid because 6v6 was never given a fair go with balance as the dev team abandoned the game, and yet it was still way better at its best than 5v5 has ever been.
2 tanks was just the same combos again and again, they have rein zar you have rein dva? You’ll probably lose. Repeat for all the meta combos. 5v5 puts the tanks agency in MY hands, if I do my job then my team has a good tank instead of having to rely on someone when I can now do the job myself. Also flexing is good cause it’s a skill to be good at every hero
In no way shape or form did anyone ask for 5v5. Q times would have been just fine in 6v6 if the devs didnt waste their time on making pve and 5v5. All they had to do was just simply focused on making the roles fun to play. Not letting characters have GOJ free cards, reworking or nerfing double sheild, and etc, all these things they let sit in the game for so long made the rest of overwatch 1s longevity miserable. Whats so hard about staying consistent with what made the game fun to play and learn? So are we just gonna keep throwing shit at the wall and hope it sticks with 5v5 instead of simply cleaning the dirty gem that was 6v6 overwatch? Cmon lets be real here.
6v6 only makes the game "more fun" for tank players, and shifts the burden onto DPS, and certain support players. Luckily, the types of players who want another tank in the game are the types of players I hate to see in my matches, so please, stop whinging and just quit already.
I'm never looking into a 6v6 5v5 comment section again, the amount of drama and rewriting history is insane, you guys deleted all ow 1 history from your minds and keep romanticizing about a game that never existed.
We are not discussing 6v6 we are discussing a version of 6v6 that only exists on theory.
one less player on my team to carry one less enemy to deal with,. seriously only bad people can complain about this. matter of fact games like league of legends valorant 5v5 or 1v1 3v3 quake apex legend, imho there is something about having that odd number is like a golden ratio formula
Imagine saying the game was never balanced like its a point againt 6v6 when Overwatch 1 had quite literally the worst balance team in gaming history and the hero designers were working off of the terrible idea of making the game easier over time by making brain dead free value characters like Orisa and Brig
Do mauga meta all over again then abandon the game for 2 years like they did ow. Then compare queue times. This guy flagrantly ignores that the game was abandoned because it's the only period of time in which he can use to make his point against 6v6.
You are flat wrong and purposely ignoring that OW1 was not a free to play game, and that's why queue times were much longer. 5v5 is an issue, and you alongside the overwatch devs plainly refuse to even acknowledge it.
I mean 3 of that 6 years was whit almost 0 efort from the developers, thay alredy did more balance in 2 years of ow2 that in all 6 years of ow1 so maybe is that the problem and not the format.
You can't take any criticism, youre so heavily invested in this game anytime anyone says anything you say they are wrong. YOU are wrong, get cucked by blizzard lmao.
Revelation 14:12
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
6 years of data on a payed game which updates came in slow, without a battle pass and a team scared of doing balance changes.... yeah, no one complained on the format after role queqe, but ow 2 is a format issue, is free and tank feels incomplete and unfun
Samito just complains in every video for years, annoying as hell. Dude is trapped playing a game he hates cuz he based his career off it back when he liked it smh
6v6 is the answer.
5v5 is ass
Glad I don’t play this shit game anymore anyway 😂
But you still keep up to date on it? That’s like checking in on your ex just move on if your really done with it lol. Tired of these people staying in the community who “don’t play this game anymore” just to talk shit about it.
But why not bring back a 6v6 mode so everyone can be happy ? People who wnnna experience that can get to enjoy / hate the game but have a choice rather than being forced to play this bs 5v5
Freedo, ask yourself why supports need even more bail out abilities in this game, DPS tier damage, and the same healing stats as 6v6? To defend themselves due to lack of 2nd tank and extend teamfight duration beyond instant deathmatch fights. Can’t nerf them or they’ll whine about having to be good. Why do tanks have to be gigatanks, all have the playstyle of standing main, and no weaknesses? 5v5. Can’t change it because they’ll get lit up more than they already are. Why does DPS need a passive to be relevant in 5v5 with supports/tanks like this? Which in turn this passive makes those roles more annoying to play? 5v5… we are trapped in a balancing conundrum by the format, and tank is paying the price the most yet again. That’s why the devs have been flailing in all the patches throwing stuff at the wall to see what sticks. They would have a better time in 6v6, and we’d see how easily it was fixed because the devs were THAT BAD. People like Samito and myself complained in OW1 all the time because the best game ever is right there but they refused to acknowledge the issues, then in order to keep adding game ruining things like overkittited tanks and immos, they went to 5v5 so it didn’t feel as egregious. BUT IT’S STILL THERE.
ok so lets disregard samito and your argument. if its just my opinion i hate 5v5 with a passion and your arguments [except queue times] sounds like lunacy to me
I’m with you on the one shot hate. If we really want to get rid of absolutely all of them and just make the game a first person moba I guarantee we’ll see people leave the game and people will say support is too strong.
I dont understand... are people forgetting how overwatch 1 lacked updates to the game? Are people forgetting about the content droughts? 6v6 was never given the same treatment as 5v5, and it's because of the lack of updates and content that the people left the game. Hence, the longer queue times were a result of people leaving. People leaving was the result of a lack of updates and content.
Freedo is gaslighting to defend his paycheck. He argues as if the game wasn't abandoned by devs for multiple years, and as if the issues with OW1 were inherent to 6v6 rather than no real balance attempts after dropping the meta shattering Brigette and Sigma. Hell, most of the changes to Orisa alone in the change to OW2 killed double shields.
my point has always been that 6v6 had a way worse balance team so we never got to see the best of it.
seeing how i liked ow1 better anyway that means with a better balance team and the game actually receiving updates 6v6 would be even better lmao
I fr can’t believe ppl r really saying this any1 who thinks 6v6 is better is prolly new to the game or so cooked it doesn’t matter wat they do they will never stop playing
I don't know where in the world that you get off ditching samito but 6v6 is the answer because it was more fun than what the current system now is and I would rather not put money towards it
New News: Dev stayed queue times were never the issue it averaged at 6mins across roles. An update for anyone reading comments.
Also low rank was better than high rank in 6v6 when it was unbalanced. Like you see rien zar getting played in double shield meta
queue time isn’t an argument though the player base decreased from no updates queue time gonna be just as bad in ow2 in 10 seasons if we get same of what we getting now
Samito is always just looking for an excuse to yell about something, but I had more fun with 6v6
Devs already confirmed that queue times weren’t the reason they made the switch so your argument kinda falls flat