The opposite tho. Everyone who is smaller than me is on roids but can't train for shit. Anyone bigger than me is just smarter with their training and natural.
Soso. Jay cuttler was one of the biggest guys ever. He started roids at a very young age. He looks super young at age 51 , no bad skin, he looks super healthy.
It's the sliced 3d look that is the giveaway. You look at every bodybuilder/lifter pre 1939. You never saw anyone like you see today. Not only were they smaller. Bodyfat rarely went below 10% Today you have bodybuilders with delts bigger than their pecs (NICK WALKER) Quads way too big for the calfs. It looks DREADFUL.
@@stevemann1299 stop talking about the elite. Most roid users look like chubby nobodies. Take a very ripped natural with decent genetics and an average roid user. 9 out of ten will say the ripped one is the user.
@@andersistbesser That will depend on the shape and size of his muscles. The giveaways are bulbous pecs, 3d delts and too much detail and vascularity in the torso and legs. Someone like Greg Ogalagher. Is about as good as a natural gets.
The shoulders and traps absolutely blow up when you go on gear, faster than any other muscles. I have seen it many times, we don’t need studies to make conclusions on this. - an avid steroid user
Literally anecdotal evidence. The evidence doesn't show this. Traps and shoulders look like they blow up because everything blows up but those areas are naturally leaner so you see it sooner
As someone who is 6 weeks in to a cycle; it was by far the most apparent transformation in my physique. I've always had overpowered legs and arms so I'm hoping it will even out my torso.
I’m natural, but the first thing to blow up on me even a week or so in has always been my shoulders/traps. Now that I’ve been working out for 2 years, the rest of my muscles have caught up, but I have a wide collar bone, like 12/15%bf, and slightly lower insertion of the two side delt muscle areas, which makes me look bigger than I am, and fit into shirts nicely.
In context (!) of all the other signs, I would also include extraordinary redness of the skin as another indicator. The redness stems from the polyglobulia caused by anabolic steroids.
though, some of us suffer from rosacea, which at least makes our faces look red, all the time. personally not seen anyone be "red" who was on gear. but i'm sure it can happen.
It’s usually a case of not managing blood pressure properly or using too high doses, so it doesn’t happen to everyone that’s on gear, but it’s yet another potential clue
I've always thought capped delts were a give-away simply because they are notoriously difficult to grow. Obviously, a natty can have nice side delts, but putting on serious mass there is a real challenge without gear.
I know it's quite tedious to hear this over again but genetics plays a big role in your overall muscle insertions and muscle mass gained throughout your training time. I have good size delts and I have been training for only 1 year and half . I had to focus more on my delts because they were lacking once I did that they become bigger quite fast (2 months of consistency) .
It's not just the size, it's the shape. On steroids, the delts balloon up. They look big, full, rounded, and lean. That's almost always is from steroids or sarms.
Lots of people on roidz have horrible delts. Yes they are difficult to grow as a natty, especially if you don't know how to train them. Also they are easy to get a horrible injury on.
Having competed naturally (life long) for nearly a decade I can tell you this is spot on. Abs are a dead giveaway too, never seen anyone with tennis ball abs who wasn’t using.
Extra fingers are a good sign, too. That guy in the thumbnail definitely isn't natural. I'm guessing those days are ending, though. Soon they'll have 5 fingers, too.
@@menno.henselmans AI tends to give people extra fingers, so whoever created the title image for the video (maybe an editor?) was using AI most likely. currently it's easier to tell if an image is AI than if someone is on steroids, but one day AI will get good enough that it'd be undetectable.
Loved the video, I got baited by the beginning and I was sitting there like "ackshually no big shoulders aren't a definitive indicator" and then you said it lol.
That online self measurement tool was pretty cool. Made me feel significantly better about my progress. I’m underdeveloped where I assumed I would be, but significantly more developed, everywhere else, than I thought. I’m never going to use enhancement, so realizing I’m already (on average) 88% of the way to the lean mass I’m likely to gain is pretty nice.
Most roid users looke like anyone else. You talk about very big users. Most guys dint become very big. They just gain a little bit and get watery and a bit chubby. They dont look much different than guys who like to eat and drink lots of beer😂
The fast muscle gain is a good sign. Acne is another good sign. And the very good sign is the size of testicles. On gear, testicles shut down and become unbelievably small. But who is gonna look at man's testicles? 😂
There’s also a lot of guys that hop on gear but don’t have the discipline or knowledge in the lifting and nutrition. In other words, they failed at getting a steroid physique and you can’t even tell they were on it in the first place kek
Is there any research on doing stomach vaccums for getting a slimmer waist?? Lots of old school bodybuilders swear by vaccuums like frank zane. People have documented their journey doing vacuums for months everyday and they say it worked. Make a video on stomach vaccums pls
Trust me, try a cycle of primo or a DHT derivative and your traps and delts will explode. I don't even do trap focused exercises and my traps are twice the size than they were before I used primo. There's definitely a significant relationship here
@@JorisWeima maybe just because its so hard to grow these muscles naturally. There is no good specific exercise for the traps. Thats why only steroid users have traps. Shoulders are also hard to train. Though nattys sometimes have some delts too if they train them properly. But steroids grow all muscles even with bad training stimulus.
@@wtsuser Could be! Interesting. But then you would expect all muscles of the body to gain an EQUAL extra % of mass right? I was thinking that maybe the higher baseline level of anabolic hormones etc. makes muscles grow more from frequent 'indirect stimulus', like the slight stimulation of the traps during most curls, standing/seated delt exercises, shoulder presses, etc and perhaps even hoisting your dumbbells to your bench etc. And the delts are used in all presses en back exercises. Normally that slight stimilus doesnt lead to any/much growth, but with the higher baseline level it might do so more? Dunno lol. Interesting nonetheless
The fast muscle gain is a good sign. Acne is another good sign. And the very good sign is the size of testicles. On gear, testicles shut down and become unbelievably small. But who is gonna look at man's testicles? 😂
People spend way too long looking for physical signs. Guys, it’s all in the psychology. Probably 90% of users won’t look like they’re using to the uninitiated. Probably about half of them don’t even look like they lift, much less use. Instead of looking for signs, analyze the personality. Is the person insecure? Is he himself or does he seem to be playing a permanent character? Is he super competitive in life? Does he virtue signal about not using? (That last one is a major red flag). Is using vs not using the difference between making a 5 figure income and a 6+ figure income? Does the person constantly mention being natty, even if no one asks? (Another big one). Does the person seem like he’s desperately trying to compensate for something? As a general rule-GENERAL, not always; let’s say 99/100 cases-if you even have to ask, you already know the answer. And even the ones you’d never suspect? Well. You’d be surprised
I think that's pretty much the reality, they might make people bigger than they'd otherwise be, but there's no real test for that. Unless they have severe side effects, or went beyond what anyone can do naturally, for every guy you can point to and say 'that's drugs!', there will be another guy with the same thing but from his genetics.
My buddies kid played pubg and other games 23 hrs out of 24. He never left his room. Ate crap. Hit 15 and his delts blew up. End of story. His hormones gave him delts.
I used your FFMI calculator several months ago when I was 5’7” and 175 pounds and scored a 23.7. I took it just now after watching this video, weighing 195 pounds, and scored a 26.2. I started working out two years ago at age 37, so I’m slightly incredulous of a number that high. As I suspected, the torso was 10% underdeveloped by your calculations. I have a hell of a time getting my pecs to grow as fast as anything else.
The only thing I learnt is Bacne is a term used around the world. Funny how you hear like words you and friends think you made up in high school, but everyone in the world also made that word up.
NGL when I saw the title I assumed this was gonna be some terrible clickbait misinformation. Very pleasantly surprised to see all accurate information laid out clearly with cited research. Sad to see so so many still here in the comments completely missing the points laid out in the video and commenting their dumb anecdotal experiences & how they must be right. In my experience most of the natty or not crowd are beginner - novice - intermediate lifters who enjoy making excuses for their lack of perceived progress while obsessing with determining who they think is or isn’t natural
I was excused of using PED many times and I didn't only because I gained 30 lbs of lean mass. I was extremely skinny and didn't consume more than 1500 calories a day which didn't allow me to grow. As soon as I started drinking mass gained by the tubs and eating more didIi put on mass. My family doctor and chiropractor both asked me what I'm taking 😂. I'm like nothing but protein, creatine and mass gainer. I was eating 1500 calories just in mass gainer. I did get fat everywhere as well but it didn't matter because it was amazing to actually fill in a shirt.
I've started the gym 1 year ago (or so) because I have EDS and I need some joint stabilization and now that I've lowered the weight (30kg) I?ve noticed my puffy nips, big acne (legs and back) and big traps but 0 drugs.. it's basically my genetics and as my doctor told me "yeah you have lots of metabolical problems since you were overweight for most of your life lol" (and I have my arms and back white instead of hipercolored dots) (yeah and also I don't have a good physique but if I keep on goin some years all these things will be on me still lol)
1 min ago I have just got a pull-up bar. I don't know what workouts to do as absolute beginner. I heard 2 pushups and 3 squats for each pull-up is pretty good. I am working 9-10 hours a day 6 days a week. I would love to incorporate a little exercise in my routine. Please advise
I've been accused of being on gear so many times, but I've never touched anything. I don't think there's any way to look at someone and tell definitively whether they're juicing or not.
Menno, just used your calculator and I would like to know how do you explain that I still have 15kg of muscle to gain and I'm already capped when it comes to torso, neck and arms? Thighs are only at 82% of what you consider to be my potential but is it even reasonable to consider that almost all of those 15kg would be gained only on my thighs? Confused but also very interested in your calculator.
A big problem with FFMI is that most gear users are about the same size as intermediate naturals in the real world. It's obvious when someone is a competitive pro bodybuilder level of muscularity, but a bunch of gear users at my gym have FFMIs under 24. I know a guy who has used tren and a bunch of other stuff in the past and now runs 350 mg test/week year-round who is about 180 lb at 5'9-10" and probably 12-14% bodyfat. That's an FFMI around 23, and most of that is concentrated in his traps and delts. I think if someone trains in a way that seems really inefficient but looks too muscular "for their training", has oily skin and a perma-sunburn look all the time, seems puffy despite being fairly lean, and has backne/ back hyperpigmentation, these can be suggestive of gear use. I've used similar criteria in practice a number of times and and later been proven right through talking to them personally or hearing through acquaintances. Big caveat, there are also plenty of guys I've heard are confirmed gear users who have none of these signs and don't have impressive physiques at all. I think it's also much harder with guys who use gear for strength sports than it is for bodybuilding because of body composition. If body fat is high, it can be really tough. Guys on gear won't seem as impressive when over 20%, and a lot of naturals can hold a lot of size when fluffy. Just look at offseason pics of Lee Priest as an example. He's a certified freak of nature, but when he was dirty bulked he didn't even look like a bodybuilder. Now subtract elite genetics and it becomes really difficult. It's also become harder since a huge proportion of Gen Z guys are on SARMs from day 1 of training. I've heard through several gym buddies in their early 20s just how rampant it is amongst their friend groups, many of them hopped on PEDs the day they started training as teens or in the first year of training. One guy told me he can name 5 friends off the top of his head who are enhanced in some way and they're all smaller than him... he's 185 lb at 6'1", lanky, and not super lean... and they think he's enhanced even though he's natty with average genetics. The side effects seem to be less obvious in SARM users as well.
I have a question about strength vs. muscle mass. I know that weightlifters / strongmen train different than bodybuilders. But can't find a simple answer why extreme strength doesn't give extreme muscle mass? Why bodybuilder's biceps is always bigger compared to a strongman and always weaker?
Putting my data into your FFMI calculator: torso/neck/forearm/upper arm: underdeveloped. Thigh/calf: overdeveloped. Me, considering how I run 70k and cycle 50k a week and do two lower body focused lifting sessions a week, but only one or two light upper body lifting sessions a week: ...sounds about right.
Way back in 1996 a coworker friend of mine was a competitive "natural" bodybuilder. Once I got to know him well he admitted he took roids and said the drug tests at competitions are a joke and can be easily fooled. Is this still true these days in competitive natural bodybuilding?
I think my body is an outlier. I don't have much muscle on my chest but calculator says "overdeveloped", but I have a massive ribcage and a 7 foot wingspan. The calculator just doesn't know what to do with it :P
I swear I am doing legs every week, even though 'thighs' is my 1 underdeveloped area. I am planning to be able to succesfully do pistol squats before the end of the year, at ~100kg, I wouldn't really call that bad.
According to this FFMI calculator I achieved 104-106% of my potential with my neck and upper arm. Not only I am not on steroids, I wouldn't even call myself an intermediate lifter. Wrong fat % estimate? Wrong measurements? Weird genetics?
I‘m age 57 and nowhere near a strength athlete, but a boulderer. FFMI-Calculator says my forearms are near 100% and my upper body is overdeveloped at a total of 21.9. Seems like I‘m doing something right 😅
According to your FFMI calculator my forearms are supposedly overdeveloped. I shouldn't be available to have 38cm of forearms with a height of 177cm and a body fat of around 20% more towards 18%. Anyway according to the results I'm only left for about 8kg to go of lean mass which is quite weird because I haven't gone to the gym for a decade or minimum 5 years, only 1 year and half .
@@Dokter35 It definitely does and if you include nutrition you're golden ! People that don't have great genetics will say genetics doesn't play a major role in your overall muscle development.
23.6 wow I am compatible body builder levels lol. At 51 and menopausal I will take that lol. I am Natural and still gaining, need to add about 5.5lb lean muscle and lose 6.7 lb of fat 💪🏼nice tool thanks
Just look at their face and skin. People on steroids age quicker and their face widens. Also sometimes their skin gets darker. Maybe because lof low cortisol
Bla bla. Look at jay cuttler one of the biggest ever, started roids at a very young age. Looking super young and super healthy with good skin at the tender age of 52...while still being bigger than anyone of you guys😂
Why the study was on powerlifters and not bodybuilders? Powerlifters aren't doing isolation movements like side raises or shrugs or repranges around 8-15 so what's the point of that study🤷♂️
My lagging part was delts I trained them a lot and this did not do much. I took steroids and my delts were my dominating body par,t then I stopped training them directly at all. I do not train them now for 5 years and they are still dominating and they are still growing bc of chest pressing movements. Of course I am still using gear. For me it is not myth. My legs are good now my worst part is biceps.
Biggest giveaway for me are the traps. Really swollen traps (hump shape) are not natural. Having alot of mass whilst carrying little fat around the stomach. Very hard to do naturally.
If you're a natty female you need to lift heavy weight, pound-for-pound, in order to develop delt and trap muscle mass ALONG WITH shredded definition and bicep/tricep separation. You NEED to be able to OV press a lot of weight. It's NOT just about having naturally broad shoulders (in comparison to hips). You need to actually lift heavy weight to develop ENOUGH mass (for definition that comes in later). I don't understand why many women who've been lifting for years DON'T get this. They WANT a more developed upper body. They're lifting alongside the men in the free section - and have been for decades. Surely they understand that certain amounts of weight lifted produce actual muscle mass? Some get angry when they don't get the results they "expect." Testosterone and fast-twitch muscle fibers lift heavier weight consistently. It's MORE than LEVERAGE... that's falsely insinuating that every short woman will be able to lift heavy pound-for-pound. And that's just not true.
I have big traps and shoulders and I'm natty. But I'm also lifeling farmer and worked in soil production since I was 14. So basically farming and throwing soil bags are equal to gear 😂😂😂😂😂
I just used the FFMI calc and apparently apart from my thighs (91%), everything else on me is apparently 98-99% of my natty limit? I trained 4 years in my 20s, and have been back for 3 years now in my 30s, after 8 years off. Am i really bouncing off my natty limit at 179lb (14%bf)? With only 10lb of muscle left to build unless i start juicing? Im pretty small...
People can have great genetics for specific body parts so I don't think going by a specific muscle group is smart or fair. You'll have someone with an amazing chest but shitty arms and legs and they'll get called a fake natty online, same for shoulders etc. as a side note, please avoid anything bodybuilding related on reddit.
Side/rear delts, upper traps/neck, lower hamstrings, wrist and ankle diameter. These are all virtually impossible to change in size without steroids. Detail yes, but not size.
Trenbolone can't give you gyno because it is not a substrate for aromatase and so cannot be converted to estradiol. It can make you lactate via increased prolactin secretion, though.
Hmm, what about binding affinity? Compounds with stronger binding affinity than testosterone can lead to excess free test, causing a spike in estradiol.
@Menno Henselmanns - can a caloric surplus or deficit cause or improve acne? Like excess calories can this cause inflammation leading to acne & caloric deficit reduce inflammation thus reduce acne?
@@Mr.Creosote15 not really because I can eat the same foods without issues when I reduce calories then when I increase calories I break out.. appreciate the response though as I know this is the case for others
Menno, how about people who previously taken steroids, then gone back to natty and continued lifting, is there any research on that? I definitely notice my traps and shoulders are fuller than most people my height and size at the gym, and I haven't taken steroids for 5 years. Have heard Brad Schoenfeld suggest that there might be something to that, but nothing conclusiive.
6:47 Dude that is lentigo, is like a big freckle kinda normal in white people in sun exposed areas, kind different than true postinflammatory hyperpigmentation in the first picture.
Best way to not be a fake natty is not to lie like a kid stealing in a candy store.. i am not natty, and if people thoght i wher.. i would be sad sins the test i get would be fake. Stop the lie and be who you are all the way thrug. Nice vid 🎉🙂
Anyone who is bigger than me isn’t natty. Obviously.
Yep! Checked that and it is true!
The opposite tho. Everyone who is smaller than me is on roids but can't train for shit. Anyone bigger than me is just smarter with their training and natural.
statistically, this is correct
Duh!
@@benbernanke7701 I’ll have whatever cocktail of recreational drugs you’re taking
The rules are:
Anyone more muscular than me is on steroids.
Anyone smaller is because they are lazy.
That’s how the internet works
LOL
I'm not judging to Quick, some can use little amounts, some users(over 55%) alot of peds, etc.
@@Lovesalads06 Even small amounts give huge advantages. I was surprised when I saw the studies
@@sharpasacueball I know but if can affect people who use it differently.
Have you ever considered shaving your lower beard into a H shape to match your M shaped moustache?
🤣🤣
what the fuck lmaoo
He would be ready to become a villain
Would be good sports.
Man, Mike Isreatel causes comments to be all jokes 😂😂.
lol nice
Bad skin, looking old for age , low fat with mass, huge gains in a short timeframe and very capped delts are all some of the clues .
Normie craft beer lifestyle ages people faster than gear.
Soso. Jay cuttler was one of the biggest guys ever. He started roids at a very young age. He looks super young at age 51 , no bad skin, he looks super healthy.
It's the sliced 3d look that is the giveaway. You look at every bodybuilder/lifter pre 1939. You never saw anyone like you see today. Not only were they smaller. Bodyfat rarely went below 10%
Today you have bodybuilders with delts bigger than their pecs (NICK WALKER) Quads way too big for the calfs. It looks DREADFUL.
@@stevemann1299 stop talking about the elite. Most roid users look like chubby nobodies. Take a very ripped natural with decent genetics and an average roid user. 9 out of ten will say the ripped one is the user.
@@andersistbesser
That will depend on the shape and size of his muscles. The giveaways are bulbous pecs, 3d delts and too much detail and vascularity in the torso and legs.
Someone like Greg Ogalagher. Is about as good as a natural gets.
The shoulders and traps absolutely blow up when you go on gear, faster than any other muscles. I have seen it many times, we don’t need studies to make conclusions on this.
- an avid steroid user
Literally anecdotal evidence. The evidence doesn't show this. Traps and shoulders look like they blow up because everything blows up but those areas are naturally leaner so you see it sooner
As someone who is 6 weeks in to a cycle; it was by far the most apparent transformation in my physique. I've always had overpowered legs and arms so I'm hoping it will even out my torso.
I’m natural, but the first thing to blow up on me even a week or so in has always been my shoulders/traps. Now that I’ve been working out for 2 years, the rest of my muscles have caught up, but I have a wide collar bone, like 12/15%bf, and slightly lower insertion of the two side delt muscle areas, which makes me look bigger than I am, and fit into shirts nicely.
@@sillysissyphus4877 Hey, man. It's been two months. Have your legs and arms been nerfed yet?
In context (!) of all the other signs, I would also include extraordinary redness of the skin as another indicator. The redness stems from the polyglobulia caused by anabolic steroids.
though, some of us suffer from rosacea, which at least makes our faces look red, all the time. personally not seen anyone be "red" who was on gear. but i'm sure it can happen.
@@jonathanstarner3662Liver King is a good example, he’s on a ton of gear and looks like a lobster all the time lol
It’s usually a case of not managing blood pressure properly or using too high doses, so it doesn’t happen to everyone that’s on gear, but it’s yet another potential clue
@@einsteinx2Dana white is another one, the tomato himself.
@@einsteinx2 also athlean-x, nobody should be that red, whenever athelean-x crosses the street all the cars stop because they think it's a red light
I've always thought capped delts were a give-away simply because they are notoriously difficult to grow. Obviously, a natty can have nice side delts, but putting on serious mass there is a real challenge without gear.
I know it's quite tedious to hear this over again but genetics plays a big role in your overall muscle insertions and muscle mass gained throughout your training time. I have good size delts and I have been training for only 1 year and half . I had to focus more on my delts because they were lacking once I did that they become bigger quite fast (2 months of consistency) .
It's not just the size, it's the shape. On steroids, the delts balloon up. They look big, full, rounded, and lean. That's almost always is from steroids or sarms.
Lots of people on roidz have horrible delts. Yes they are difficult to grow as a natty, especially if you don't know how to train them. Also they are easy to get a horrible injury on.
Delts are super easy to grow . Mine where the first thing growing big as a natura, then arms, legs , back and chest. You just dont have good genetics
@@CosmicawarenessCitizentrue if someone got decent genetics delts grow easy and fast
Having competed naturally (life long) for nearly a decade I can tell you this is spot on. Abs are a dead giveaway too, never seen anyone with tennis ball abs who wasn’t using.
Extra fingers are a good sign, too. That guy in the thumbnail definitely isn't natural. I'm guessing those days are ending, though. Soon they'll have 5 fingers, too.
bahahahah true
Diamond eye
What do you mean? I've always had 12.5 fingers????
What extra fingers?
@@menno.henselmans AI tends to give people extra fingers, so whoever created the title image for the video (maybe an editor?) was using AI most likely. currently it's easier to tell if an image is AI than if someone is on steroids, but one day AI will get good enough that it'd be undetectable.
@@rinkuheroI think the joke is that the thumbnail got edited so you can't see his hands now
Clue 1: they're bigger than you
There are no other clues
Clue 1: they look silly
I put Mike o Hearn on your calculator and it said error
6) If a lady voice pitch goes down by 1 octave.😂
Yeah deeper than Barry White😂
Loved the video, I got baited by the beginning and I was sitting there like "ackshually no big shoulders aren't a definitive indicator" and then you said it lol.
That online self measurement tool was pretty cool. Made me feel significantly better about my progress. I’m underdeveloped where I assumed I would be, but significantly more developed, everywhere else, than I thought. I’m never going to use enhancement, so realizing I’m already (on average) 88% of the way to the lean mass I’m likely to gain is pretty nice.
Greg should have a field day with this.
This is the best explanation I've ever heard; Iam convinced! ❤
Super fast progress, extreme vascularity, great muscle definition, red skin are some of the giveaways.
Honestly the biggest giveaway is the blocky face and puffy nose people tend to get from large doses of test
Most roid users looke like anyone else. You talk about very big users. Most guys dint become very big. They just gain a little bit and get watery and a bit chubby. They dont look much different than guys who like to eat and drink lots of beer😂
@@andersistbesser guys who look like anyone else don't get fake natty accusations to begin with lol
@@pouihurmen haha very true
The fast muscle gain is a good sign. Acne is another good sign. And the very good sign is the size of testicles. On gear, testicles shut down and become unbelievably small. But who is gonna look at man's testicles? 😂
Amazing video thank you. Loved the life advices at the end
There’s also a lot of guys that hop on gear but don’t have the discipline or knowledge in the lifting and nutrition. In other words, they failed at getting a steroid physique and you can’t even tell they were on it in the first place kek
Is there any research on doing stomach vaccums for getting a slimmer waist?? Lots of old school bodybuilders swear by vaccuums like frank zane. People have documented their journey doing vacuums for months everyday and they say it worked. Make a video on stomach vaccums pls
Trust me, try a cycle of primo or a DHT derivative and your traps and delts will explode. I don't even do trap focused exercises and my traps are twice the size than they were before I used primo. There's definitely a significant relationship here
Thats interesting. Any idea why specifically those muscles?
@@JorisWeima maybe just because its so hard to grow these muscles naturally. There is no good specific exercise for the traps. Thats why only steroid users have traps. Shoulders are also hard to train. Though nattys sometimes have some delts too if they train them properly. But steroids grow all muscles even with bad training stimulus.
@@wtsuser Could be! Interesting. But then you would expect all muscles of the body to gain an EQUAL extra % of mass right? I was thinking that maybe the higher baseline level of anabolic hormones etc. makes muscles grow more from frequent 'indirect stimulus', like the slight stimulation of the traps during most curls, standing/seated delt exercises, shoulder presses, etc and perhaps even hoisting your dumbbells to your bench etc. And the delts are used in all presses en back exercises. Normally that slight stimilus doesnt lead to any/much growth, but with the higher baseline level it might do so more? Dunno lol. Interesting nonetheless
The fast muscle gain is a good sign. Acne is another good sign. And the very good sign is the size of testicles. On gear, testicles shut down and become unbelievably small. But who is gonna look at man's testicles? 😂
Nice vid! Thanks sensei
People spend way too long looking for physical signs. Guys, it’s all in the psychology. Probably 90% of users won’t look like they’re using to the uninitiated. Probably about half of them don’t even look like they lift, much less use. Instead of looking for signs, analyze the personality. Is the person insecure? Is he himself or does he seem to be playing a permanent character? Is he super competitive in life? Does he virtue signal about not using? (That last one is a major red flag). Is using vs not using the difference between making a 5 figure income and a 6+ figure income? Does the person constantly mention being natty, even if no one asks? (Another big one). Does the person seem like he’s desperately trying to compensate for something?
As a general rule-GENERAL, not always; let’s say 99/100 cases-if you even have to ask, you already know the answer. And even the ones you’d never suspect? Well. You’d be surprised
We're gonna go from everyone is on steroids to nobody is on steroids with this one
I think that's pretty much the reality, they might make people bigger than they'd otherwise be, but there's no real test for that. Unless they have severe side effects, or went beyond what anyone can do naturally, for every guy you can point to and say 'that's drugs!', there will be another guy with the same thing but from his genetics.
My buddies kid played pubg and other games 23 hrs out of 24. He never left his room. Ate crap. Hit 15 and his delts blew up. End of story. His hormones gave him delts.
I never trained in my teens, and I always had big strong biceps... if only I started training then rather than now. anyway, yeah that can happen
I used your FFMI calculator several months ago when I was 5’7” and 175 pounds and scored a 23.7. I took it just now after watching this video, weighing 195 pounds, and scored a 26.2. I started working out two years ago at age 37, so I’m slightly incredulous of a number that high.
As I suspected, the torso was 10% underdeveloped by your calculations. I have a hell of a time getting my pecs to grow as fast as anything else.
The calculator gets less reliable the higher bodyfat you are, hence it's a Fat-Free Mass Index.
@@Darknight526 Thanks. I know damned well I don’t look like a “world class natural pro bodybuilder.”
The only thing I learnt is Bacne is a term used around the world. Funny how you hear like words you and friends think you made up in high school, but everyone in the world also made that word up.
If they are bigger/leaner/stronger than you, they are on the gear
NGL when I saw the title I assumed this was gonna be some terrible clickbait misinformation.
Very pleasantly surprised to see all accurate information laid out clearly with cited research. Sad to see so so many still here in the comments completely missing the points laid out in the video and commenting their dumb anecdotal experiences & how they must be right.
In my experience most of the natty or not crowd are beginner - novice - intermediate lifters who enjoy making excuses for their lack of perceived progress while obsessing with determining who they think is or isn’t natural
Great video!
Is it true that all cause mortality is inversely proportional to quad size
Biggest clue to me is the person constantly bringing up that they are natty, usually tagging the headline of every video or social media post.
I was excused of using PED many times and I didn't only because I gained 30 lbs of lean mass. I was extremely skinny and didn't consume more than 1500 calories a day which didn't allow me to grow. As soon as I started drinking mass gained by the tubs and eating more didIi put on mass.
My family doctor and chiropractor both asked me what I'm taking 😂. I'm like nothing but protein, creatine and mass gainer. I was eating 1500 calories just in mass gainer.
I did get fat everywhere as well but it didn't matter because it was amazing to actually fill in a shirt.
I've started the gym 1 year ago (or so) because I have EDS and I need some joint stabilization and now that I've lowered the weight (30kg) I?ve noticed my puffy nips, big acne (legs and back) and big traps but 0 drugs.. it's basically my genetics and as my doctor told me "yeah you have lots of metabolical problems since you were overweight for most of your life lol" (and I have my arms and back white instead of hipercolored dots)
(yeah and also I don't have a good physique but if I keep on goin some years all these things will be on me still lol)
1 min ago I have just got a pull-up bar. I don't know what workouts to do as absolute beginner. I heard 2 pushups and 3 squats for each pull-up is pretty good. I am working 9-10 hours a day 6 days a week. I would love to incorporate a little exercise in my routine. Please advise
I've been accused of being on gear so many times, but I've never touched anything. I don't think there's any way to look at someone and tell definitively whether they're juicing or not.
Calculator says "it will not be accurate if not six-pack lean", that's a big disclaimer you committed here
Ja especially if you consuder the fact that 75% of us population is overweight, not six pack lean, not normal.
Menno, just used your calculator and I would like to know how do you explain that I still have 15kg of muscle to gain and I'm already capped when it comes to torso, neck and arms? Thighs are only at 82% of what you consider to be my potential but is it even reasonable to consider that almost all of those 15kg would be gained only on my thighs? Confused but also very interested in your calculator.
Love Larry in the thumbnail
A big problem with FFMI is that most gear users are about the same size as intermediate naturals in the real world. It's obvious when someone is a competitive pro bodybuilder level of muscularity, but a bunch of gear users at my gym have FFMIs under 24. I know a guy who has used tren and a bunch of other stuff in the past and now runs 350 mg test/week year-round who is about 180 lb at 5'9-10" and probably 12-14% bodyfat. That's an FFMI around 23, and most of that is concentrated in his traps and delts.
I think if someone trains in a way that seems really inefficient but looks too muscular "for their training", has oily skin and a perma-sunburn look all the time, seems puffy despite being fairly lean, and has backne/ back hyperpigmentation, these can be suggestive of gear use. I've used similar criteria in practice a number of times and and later been proven right through talking to them personally or hearing through acquaintances. Big caveat, there are also plenty of guys I've heard are confirmed gear users who have none of these signs and don't have impressive physiques at all.
I think it's also much harder with guys who use gear for strength sports than it is for bodybuilding because of body composition. If body fat is high, it can be really tough. Guys on gear won't seem as impressive when over 20%, and a lot of naturals can hold a lot of size when fluffy. Just look at offseason pics of Lee Priest as an example. He's a certified freak of nature, but when he was dirty bulked he didn't even look like a bodybuilder. Now subtract elite genetics and it becomes really difficult.
It's also become harder since a huge proportion of Gen Z guys are on SARMs from day 1 of training. I've heard through several gym buddies in their early 20s just how rampant it is amongst their friend groups, many of them hopped on PEDs the day they started training as teens or in the first year of training. One guy told me he can name 5 friends off the top of his head who are enhanced in some way and they're all smaller than him... he's 185 lb at 6'1", lanky, and not super lean... and they think he's enhanced even though he's natty with average genetics. The side effects seem to be less obvious in SARM users as well.
I have a question about strength vs. muscle mass. I know that weightlifters / strongmen train different than bodybuilders. But can't find a simple answer why extreme strength doesn't give extreme muscle mass? Why bodybuilder's biceps is always bigger compared to a strongman and always weaker?
Putting my data into your FFMI calculator: torso/neck/forearm/upper arm: underdeveloped. Thigh/calf: overdeveloped. Me, considering how I run 70k and cycle 50k a week and do two lower body focused lifting sessions a week, but only one or two light upper body lifting sessions a week: ...sounds about right.
Menno, please write or post something about your view on injectable carnitine🎉🎉🙏🙏
11 weeks 28.6 pounds on..Do I use gears?
Is your calculator reasonably accurate between 12 and 15% bodyfat or would it be a waste of time in this range ?
Way back in 1996 a coworker friend of mine was a competitive "natural" bodybuilder. Once I got to know him well he admitted he took roids and said the drug tests at competitions are a joke and can be easily fooled. Is this still true these days in competitive natural bodybuilding?
LOL yup. Drug tests are a sham in basically any athletic endeavor in the entire world, including the Olympics.
Capped delts = Tren 9/10 times
and somehow my entire body lacks androgen receptors
I think my body is an outlier. I don't have much muscle on my chest but calculator says "overdeveloped", but I have a massive ribcage and a 7 foot wingspan. The calculator just doesn't know what to do with it :P
I swear I am doing legs every week, even though 'thighs' is my 1 underdeveloped area.
I am planning to be able to succesfully do pistol squats before the end of the year, at ~100kg, I wouldn't really call that bad.
According to this FFMI calculator I achieved 104-106% of my potential with my neck and upper arm. Not only I am not on steroids, I wouldn't even call myself an intermediate lifter. Wrong fat % estimate? Wrong measurements? Weird genetics?
Gyno is also heavily dependent on genetic/ethnic predisposition.
I’m 66yo, and get TRT to get me to “youthful” does that mean I’m not natty ?
Every time theres a popup on the screen i think the bomb is ticking in counter-strike
I‘m age 57 and nowhere near a strength athlete, but a boulderer. FFMI-Calculator says my forearms are near 100% and my upper body is overdeveloped at a total of 21.9. Seems like I‘m doing something right 😅
What about weirdly shaped veins?
According to your FFMI calculator my forearms are supposedly overdeveloped. I shouldn't be available to have 38cm of forearms with a height of 177cm and a body fat of around 20% more towards 18%. Anyway according to the results I'm only left for about 8kg to go of lean mass which is quite weird because I haven't gone to the gym for a decade or minimum 5 years, only 1 year and half .
38 cm forearms is pretty insane
@@Dokter35 Well guess what my father has a 44 cm forearms so to me isn't insane .
@@CosmicawarenessCitizen Damn, shows how much genetics play a role I guess.
@@Dokter35 It definitely does and if you include nutrition you're golden ! People that don't have great genetics will say genetics doesn't play a major role in your overall muscle development.
Shoulders is the giveaway.
Comparison is the killer of joy
23.6 wow I am compatible body builder levels lol. At 51 and menopausal I will take that lol. I am Natural and still gaining, need to add about 5.5lb lean muscle and lose 6.7 lb of fat 💪🏼nice tool thanks
Just look at their face and skin. People on steroids age quicker and their face widens.
Also sometimes their skin gets darker. Maybe because lof low cortisol
True but you'll only notice that in about a decade of steroid abuse .
@@CosmicawarenessCitizenthey get the bloat fave immidiately
Bla bla. Look at jay cuttler one of the biggest ever, started roids at a very young age. Looking super young and super healthy with good skin at the tender age of 52...while still being bigger than anyone of you guys😂
@@andersistbesser hair transplants + plastic surgery. And he only looks good compared to other bodybuilders.
This is just not true for the majority
The biggest fake natty is the one in the video.
Hey Menno are you still exercising or you stop ?
Why the study was on powerlifters and not bodybuilders? Powerlifters aren't doing isolation movements like side raises or shrugs or repranges around 8-15 so what's the point of that study🤷♂️
More androgen receptors also mean more growth for a natty
My lagging part was delts I trained them a lot and this did not do much. I took steroids and my delts were my dominating body par,t then I stopped training them directly at all. I do not train them now for 5 years and they are still dominating and they are still growing bc of chest pressing movements. Of course I am still using gear. For me it is not myth. My legs are good now my worst part is biceps.
Biggest giveaway for me are the traps. Really swollen traps (hump shape) are not natural.
Having alot of mass whilst carrying little fat around the stomach. Very hard to do naturally.
I knew it - Tom Platz was natural!!!!
What other guys do isn't anyone's business, unless, they are lying about drug use in order to scam products or coaching.
If you're a natty female you need to lift heavy weight, pound-for-pound, in order to develop delt and trap muscle mass ALONG WITH shredded definition and bicep/tricep separation. You NEED to be able to OV press a lot of weight. It's NOT just about having naturally broad shoulders (in comparison to hips). You need to actually lift heavy weight to develop ENOUGH mass (for definition that comes in later).
I don't understand why many women who've been lifting for years DON'T get this. They WANT a more developed upper body. They're lifting alongside the men in the free section - and have been for decades. Surely they understand that certain amounts of weight lifted produce actual muscle mass?
Some get angry when they don't get the results they "expect." Testosterone and fast-twitch muscle fibers lift heavier weight consistently. It's MORE than LEVERAGE... that's falsely insinuating that every short woman will be able to lift heavy pound-for-pound. And that's just not true.
Cold af out
I have big traps and shoulders and I'm natty. But I'm also lifeling farmer and worked in soil production since I was 14. So basically farming and throwing soil bags are equal to gear 😂😂😂😂😂
I just used the FFMI calc and apparently apart from my thighs (91%), everything else on me is apparently 98-99% of my natty limit? I trained 4 years in my 20s, and have been back for 3 years now in my 30s, after 8 years off.
Am i really bouncing off my natty limit at 179lb (14%bf)? With only 10lb of muscle left to build unless i start juicing? Im pretty small...
you probably guess your bodyfat wrong
Anecdotally Ive never seen a person with huge capped shoulders that’s wasn’t on steroids at some point.
People can have great genetics for specific body parts so I don't think going by a specific muscle group is smart or fair. You'll have someone with an amazing chest but shitty arms and legs and they'll get called a fake natty online, same for shoulders etc.
as a side note, please avoid anything bodybuilding related on reddit.
Please avoid anything about anything on reddit.
Side/rear delts, upper traps/neck, lower hamstrings, wrist and ankle diameter. These are all virtually impossible to change in size without steroids. Detail yes, but not size.
Cope
@ not sure what you mean
Trenbolone can't give you gyno because it is not a substrate for aromatase and so cannot be converted to estradiol. It can make you lactate via increased prolactin secretion, though.
Hmm, what about binding affinity? Compounds with stronger binding affinity than testosterone can lead to excess free test, causing a spike in estradiol.
You’re correct about the estrogen, but Tren can still cause gyno via binding to progesterone receptors
And yet even SARMs cause gyno.
@@einsteinx2 I looked into it and it seems that you're right.
I got gyno as a teenager, and I wasn't on gear or fat.
so is this why i was giving steroids for a shoulder injury i got ? 😮
Don't forget the varicose veins.
@Menno Henselmanns - can a caloric surplus or deficit cause or improve acne? Like excess calories can this cause inflammation leading to acne & caloric deficit reduce inflammation thus reduce acne?
It's about the type of food not necessarily the calorie it self.
Fake factory foods seems to contribute to acne. Low inflammation real food diets tend to make acne better. Acne is mostly hormonal.
@@Mr.Creosote15 not really because I can eat the same foods without issues when I reduce calories then when I increase calories I break out.. appreciate the response though as I know this is the case for others
@@GeorgeMcDougall-gz4tp Only trying to help but I understand.
Please just see a real dermatologist. They will help you
He isn’t natty if he has any size at all, and if he doesn’t look skinny, and anemic.
Would love to hear your thoughts on Peptides
Man is 6.1 at 84kg shreeeeded. Im 6.1 at 80kg ~16%bf trying to gain weight :(
All I could see In The thumbnail was a huge package, but no Diddi bro
Thank you for pointing that out
bro... 😂😂😂
OwO
Ok Diddy
How did they get my picture?
Big ripped body. Lol. Anything you didn’t see 20 years ago except for those on gear.
I have naturally big traps but it's only because I have narrow clavicles
I always thought that someone on gear had shrunken testes.
Grape nuts is a sign.
Do you use Zyn?
Is that a Zyn on the left side of your mouth?
Thickening of the eye brow ridge. Like a lump above their eyes on their forehead. Also a raspy voice tone
My question is ,is menno lifetime natty?🧐 That young menno looked like jeff seid stack user
Of course he's not natural ffs. He's a liar like the rest of them.
1:00 if you stop and smell the flowers, you're nothin' but an untrained controll...
Menno, how about people who previously taken steroids, then gone back to natty and continued lifting, is there any research on that? I definitely notice my traps and shoulders are fuller than most people my height and size at the gym, and I haven't taken steroids for 5 years. Have heard Brad Schoenfeld suggest that there might be something to that, but nothing conclusiive.
The muscle nuclei divide a lot more on gear, and that is a permanent change within the cell itself. So yes.
6:47 Dude that is lentigo, is like a big freckle kinda normal in white people in sun exposed areas, kind different than true postinflammatory hyperpigmentation in the first picture.
I saved over 15% on my gym membership with Gyno.
Instructions unclear, Liver King natty
Just look at photos from a few decades ago.
Best way to not be a fake natty is not to lie like a kid stealing in a candy store.. i am not natty, and if people thoght i wher.. i would be sad sins the test i get would be fake. Stop the lie and be who you are all the way thrug. Nice vid 🎉🙂