Ive never gotten the whole "I don't like this Bluey/Paddington/Kid show week end" Then don't go that week. There's plenty of other events, galas, etc that you can go to instead or go a day when they're just running with no events or themes.
@@samwilson4870 I hate it on social media when the local community mocked the GCR when they where doing the night running gala when on Facebook they where like "How many tickets you gonna buy" and the reply back is "None preferably"
Still going to repeat myself from the past; Heritage lines with mainline connections should look into allowing their tracks to be used for freight shipments. It helps some major US railroads, like Strasburg, balance thier books.
Yeah. Idk why that isn't done much in Britain, especially seeing as preserved diesels being stand-ins for modern equivalents was WAY more common than anyone would've thought. There's the BR class 14 for Network Rail, the BR class 55 for GB Railfreight, and there's still 100 BR Class 08s still in revenue service, with 82 preserved! Heritage Railways could also provide transit tickets for people who just wanna go from Point A to B without using a car! It won't solve ALL their problems, but it'd certainly help!
maybe there isn't any freight traffic on said lines. Strasburg connected to a large farming economy. Meanwhile, there aren't enough business to need rail (especially after breixt).
In Sweden atleast, doing so would put the heritage railway in the category of a commercial operator, and subject it to all the berueocracy of one. Needless to say I wish to see it on my railway but with the requirements and fees involved it will never happen.
I volunteer at a heritage railway on tbe continent. Despite the high coal prices, we've been actually improving our income and spending year after year recently. A really good marketing team, figuring out when there's the most demand and only run those days really help. Even in high summer, we don't run daily, only on Wednesdays and in the weekends. But another good source of income we've recently found is the storage of unused modern freight wagons. We have a few kilometers of double track, but only actually use one of those lines, with the other only receiving the minimal amount of maintenance. Currently, we have a long line of brand new, unloaded container wagons stored there. It doesnt hinder the passengers view of the landscape, and just them standing there earns money on a piece of track that otherwise would go unused.
Yeah thats also a good point you bring up. The UK not only has oversaturated its number of heritage railways but all the lines also run every day or almost every day in the high season which is insane. Even the most popular heritage societies here in Denmark only run 2 or 3 days a week during the peak of summer. That way you also dont spread your ressources too thin as a society.
To be quite honest, I find non gala events like family events or others seems to work much more than enthusiast events. And a big thing that took place at both Bluebell and Kent & East Sussex Railways was their Star Wars event, as a fan of Star Wars and a steam railway enthusiast, these events are super fantastic as well work even better in my opinion.
Speaking as an employee of a famous tourist railroad in Nevada, we've found that holding theme trains during the holiday seasons and the occasional murder mystery train has been a great success...... when steam powered. The big challenge for us this year has been the lack of steam power due to the wheel of expired boiler tickets landing right on us. For the usual passenger trains, the WW2 vintage GE diesel is sufficient to attract passengers despite quite a few being disappointed in not being able to ride on a steamer. However, the theme trains have been getting punched around like no one's business. When people are seeing the higher ticket prices and noting that they aren't getting the full treatment of a hard working steam locomotive deep in mountain territory, what would normally be a quick selling excursion becomes sad.
This is one of those things that can be learned from tourist railways in the United States: theme weekends, potential freight traffic on lines with a mainline connection, and maybe having more diesel hauled services during the weekdays may help in reducing the overall costs (not just in operating but also maintaining locomotives) and being more financially successful. The reason it’s like this in the US is simple: diversity in equipment. It’s extremely rare to have equipment from all the same road together in a realistic consist from that time, it’s even rarer to have the consists and locomotives operating on home rails. The “historic” aspect of it simply isn’t as prevalent and can’t be as prevalent. The UK can do both, the entertainment and more casual side of heritage railways doesn’t have to come at the expense of realism and historic operations. It’s all in good fun, whether it’s having an ice skating rink inside of a loco shed, a dinosaur weekend, or painting a bulleid pacific in purple.
Me and my family purchased a yearly pass for the NYMR in October last year, and we’ve been going every few months since. I’m keen to support them and I sometimes buy stuff from the Grosmont shed shop, and I donated a little bit to help the Q6 overhaul. My biggest worry is that the NYMR will try to promote a “modern” image rather than tapping into the fact they’re a vintage heritage railway in idyllic countryside.
I like how certain railways now catagorise their events as either 'family' or 'enthusiast' events, making it clear the priority and target audience for each. Aren't stuff like Santa Specials some of the biggest money earners for any heritage railway? And honestly, as much as I prefer enthusiasts events, if heritage railways can find as many ways as possible to bring folks through the door, go for it. Railways are living museums, and all museums need to find ways to attract folks to come and visit. Its nice to see railways playing with more themed weekends than just 1940s now - 1960s events are fab for the vintage fashion & culture crowd (see the popularity of the Goodwood Revival as both a historic racing *and* vintage event!), & I'd love to see more 1980s events - give me some NSE and InterCity stock mixed with 80s music & fashion! I'm also reminded of the Taw Valley Jubilee repaint - was it to everyone's taste? No, but if it attracted more folks to the railway, then great. And its not like Taw Valley needed extensive modifications either - a repaint is one of the cheapest things you can do to a loco, and its easy to change it & put it into an authentic 'period' livery again later. So that to me made sense as a way to make a bit more money for *relatively* little expenditure. I also attended the Bluebell Railway Branch Line Gala a few months back, and really enjoyed it! It felt different enough to a normal steam gala to feel special, & the fact it was themed around branch lines meant that smaller locos like tank engines could take centre stage, all while using less coal & costing less to run than equivalent flagship express locos. If they were still able to draw big crowds - & the day I was there looked plenty busy! - without nessecerily needing to wheel out the 'big guns' as it were? Ideal.
At middleton we are struggling, we may struggle to survive past next year, but our commercial team don't seem to remember we are running a railway with a shop and cafe, not the other way round
Sounds like your commercial team have it the right way round. Running trains doesn't make money. It's the cafeand the shop which make money. Operating steam trains is usually a loss maker.The cafe and shop can be a source of income all year round, if there is the volunteer labour to do so. Same with running a licenced bar, too. That's where the money is made.
The Middleton has/will always struggled to attract visitors because of its location. I've been several times since 1980, and I couldn't say: "How did I get here!" for any visit. The public transport links were always bad, and the signage non-existent. That is caused by Leeds Council, but why hasn't the Middleton managed to 'persuade' Leeds Council to include focusing on the oldest surviving railway in the world, in any of it's rebuilds of Hunslet ?
And not to mention our events haven't been doing the best either - the teddy bear picnic brought in lots of revenue, but other days like the steampunk have had quite disappointing turnouts. In fairness to our team though, the shop does make quite a lot of our money!
@@glynwelshkarelian3489 The council has things to focus on other than us - they've really not got much funding, to the point where they've been closing down council-owned museums recently. It's sad, but we're far from the top of their priority list.
@@AnthonyDawsonHistory usually you would be right but the stuff we sell in our shop at middleton and the volume that we sell doesn't cover running costs and neither does ticket sales, we struggle to attract people, and as Glyn said the transport links are shit (for lack of other words) there used to be a bus route that passed the front of our main yard/station and museum once an hour on a sunday, arriva shortened the route and now every public transport option requires at least a 10 minute walk, for families with younger children, those who are very young and just stopped using pushchairs, this option isn't great. There is also just a lack of funding south of the river in Leeds, south Leeds is like it's own seperate city
"Even heritage railways were never meant to make a profit" (says me; going through a phase on understanding how transite got to where it is today and how to bring it back)
We're (the LUKR) doing a lego show next weekend at the SVR. Strikes me as an absolute no brainer for railways looking to generate interest and ticket sales from a new generation.
My local (The Mid Norfolk) seems to basicslly be doing a mix of all the above, as well as offering mainline access for storage and (potentially far off in the future) freight. Seems to me to survive you need to keep adaptable. As much as I loved the recent steam gala weekend, I know its things like the polar express & dinosaur weekends which keep said railway afloat
Bluey and Paddington trains seem pretty tame compared to some of the event trains I have heard of here in the US (stares at "Taylor Swift train" events).
It’s a shame to hear that enthusiasts grumble about this sort of thing. I welcome heritage railways trying new things! I hope more follow the same path and it works out well for them
Yeah, and at the end of the day, its a matter of survival. One has got to do what one has got to do to make ends meet. And these events are still great possible gateways to getting kids and familys to potentially gain an interest in heritage trains. And even if not, you're still diversifying your business and making it easier to stay afloat.
A couple of days ago I randomly found myself at 'Whistlestop Valley' (formally the 'Kirklees Light Railway', a narrow gauge in West Yorkshire). I hated the name. The railway had zero history displayed or printed; zero things in the shop for serious railway fans to buy. It is totally focused on selling to families with young children. I bought a ticket anyway, and loved it! A wobbly little train going at 12mph. I was 6 years old again. Narrow gauge costs so much less to run that standard gauge heritage railways simply couldn't afford Whistlestop's brutal rebranding; and trying would make too many stalwarts quit; but just running steam trains is no longer enough.
The Leighton Buzzard Railway (my line) has implemented several events displayed in the video i.e dinosaur, bluey, vintage vehicles etc and as much as people sneer, it basically sells out every time for the major family appeal. We've also had to adapt with galas, there haven't been visiting engines at a gala since before COVID because it's expensive and our diverse home fleet is usually up to the job anyway. Also volunteer shortage is very real and absolutely affecting every line, SIGN UP!!!
Coal should be used for selected locomotives on special occasions. It does a lot of damage due to corrosive gases and abrasive ash. With light oil, you gain over 20% more power as a bonus. You can also add pre-heating to cut warm up time and save time afterwards as there is no ash, clinker and soot to be cleared out. DLM of Winterthur, Switzerland, are the experts in this technology.
Working at the GCR seeing events company like Fox and Edward's Events book put 2 coaches on one of our trains for a day and then are able to FILL those thoses out entirely to the the Brim makes us honestly question what are we doing wrong take there fish and chips trains they thet run they book 2 TSO's and Charge £80 a couple so 40 per head so 120 × £40 x 4 ... where at the same time the guard is oftern reporting when we ask how many are on we get at the peak maybe 20 ... 30 people on the DMU to the branchline unless it's Iris it's oftern maybe a Dozen only when Iris is running the branch is then standing room only but that mean the B set or even A set are running as Basically Empty Coaching stock
I definitely think that these newer gimmicks end up working but they have to be planned right. You need to make sure you arent conflicting with other events, not just in terms of railway stuff. But one of the strongest things a heritage railways can seemingly do is team up with other community or vintage organisations in the same field and region. Like model railway clubs, or vintage car collections, or anything of that nature. My local society's most succesful event is the annual heritage fair that happens here, of which the train is just one of many attractions, but still one of the primary ones amongst vintage cars, vintage military reenactments, tractor towing, vintage fairground rides, fleamarkets, live music, and more. Though IDK if I can say we're in the same boat. I mean my local society doesnt even have an operational steam engine, though theyre working to get 2 back in running order. And since our heritage rail sector is much smaller than the British, we also dont really have Galas here. Many societies dont have their own lines and they're generally threatened by a rollout of ERTMS on the mainline network apart from some locally governed branches. And the ones that do own their own lines generally drown in the level of paperwork that the big railways need to fill out, to the point where it is draining ressources from other aspects of the societies.
California has barely any train events. Pacifically next to Mexico. They may have like 0.1% of a model railway shop or some train stuff lying in museums of popular museums or display. But even then there’s barely any preserve railways in California. It just saddens my heart to see that everyone is preferring over Bluey, superheroes and other modern franchises then trains. Makes me wonder if America forgotten that trains were essential.
Themed trains have helped tourist operations in the U.S., especially as Thomas the Tank engines popularity with kids has decreased thanks to newer shows. And it may seem odd but for a while, a large chunk of US heritage lines did not have the catering services or liquor licenses to offer extra service. My latest trip out to the west saw the majority of heritage lines either have bar service or offer beer and wine in the gift shop. And places partnering with other businesses like craft breweries and restaurants have helped attract folks to the railroad and even expand main profit drivers such as Christmas trains.
Arigna is developing a bio-coal made out of the bi-products of vegetable oil production. It's working well in Bord na Móna Barclay LM44 (Tom Rolts sister) and it's going pretty well so far. That could be an option in the future. :D
Ive always maintained that our heritage railways are theatre, and therefore have to cater accordingly. Some have done extremely well out of this approach. As much as id love to visit the Bluebell and travel in a Birdcage trio set hauled by a Chatham or Brighton tank locomotive, i know that the only way of tasting the past is to fund it from the present day. And if that requires a weekend of kids riding around on velociraptors, then so be it. Pragmatism is the yardstick of the free market.
With the coal shortage in mind, even if you can figure out the perfect formula for e-coal -- for instance, if you took hardwood, hemp, bamboo, and wood from hybrid poplar trees and evaluated the necessary percentages of each ingredient required for the formula -- the biggest problem with *that* is finding an economical balance to afford all the ingredients to experiment with and utilize in order to unravel the mystery of how to create the perfect e-coal. And even if you could rebuild a steam locomotive and convert it to run on electric heat, like you said about converting them to oil-burners, it would all depend on whether or not they were built to run on electric heat in the first place. "It can be hard and potentially quite damaging," as you said, "to convert the engine effectively." But with all the information I've written here, it's all mere speculation, considering how little I know of the mechanics behind building, manufacturing, maintaining, repairing and running a steam locomotive, so by all means, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
I wonder if foreign tourists are a big untapped market for heritage railways. They could do more to position themselves as tourist attractions - work with tour operators and guidebooks, offer day tours with bus transport from major cities, etc.
I volunteer on the Stradbally Woodland Railway where Chris filmed bonus material for the season 1 DVD. Social media has transformed our business. Our quiet days now are the same as our busiest days 5 years ago. Also we're starting to burn bio coal in our steam loco and it's working pretty well. It's in development at the moment and hopefully it will be fit for big engines in the future. It's carbon neutral so it has a lot of potential 😁
It's interesting that you mentioned model show at Statfold because the same weekend in October you got GETS (The Great Electric Train Show) which is the big event on that weekend for the model railways but the same weekend is Warley at Statfold and the truth is most likely I be going to Warley than GETS, great video
Statfold is local to me and you have to look at what they offer, there is a lot for non-railway people to keep them interested (so I to will be going to Warley). I would commend any railway for trying anything to get revenue in. Look at the station at Caernarfon, it is not just a station but also can be used as a community space. I know the plans for Wharf station on the TR have a similar scheme in mind.
The line i volunteer at does have a hefty amount of the child themed days and ssem to do well from it, they have also started to branch out into more simple dining options cream teas etc which again we dont have enough volunteer numbers to run enough services so again very popular. I do think galas can be incredibly risky its a fine balance of reading your audience. We had 2 tender locos as guests this year one was on its last running before overhaul it was mainly a mainline runner so the novelty factor helped. Would there of been the same excitement for say a black five or standard 4 tank. Perfect example is im going to the severn valley gala in September. I booked before knowing the guest locos when i heard 1 was lady of legend. I must confess i was a little disappointed as i feel like i have seen that everywhere in last few years.if that was the only guest for the cost of the trip i would have had second thoughs
At least on the heritage line I volunteer at here in Sweden our problem isn’t money it’s personnel. We could easily draw more passengers if we could run more trains. A lot of the time we struggle to run trains at the start and end of our running season.
I fear lest there is a slew of miracles most of the uks heritage railways will have to either close (for the smaller organisations) or (for the larger railways) put most of their stock into mothballs and try to weather the current economic hardships until conditions improve. The main issue is that most of the issues faced by the heritage railways are symptoms of wider economic troubles in the uk and out of the railways hands. Worst case scenario, most standard gauge heritage railways close leaving only the narrow gauge stuff
Utter tosh @shepherd8171. Exactly the same things were said when the Talyllyn, Festiniog and Bluebell were first preserved and look at them now. Let's be more positive. This year has seen two new build locomotives enter service and the Kent & East Sussex has permission to extend to Robertsbridge. Also I was at the Swanage Railway last week and talking to the volunteers they're on the road to recovery.
Enthusiasts might be willing to pay 40 quid a ticket but bring sandwhiches and dont spend any money and often arrive by public transport. Mum, Dad and 2.4 children at a bluey or peppa pig day will spend 20 quid a ticket but also buy food, go to the shop and have their own transport. Days out with Thomas though are slightly different as you have to do it through Mattel and pay rights even if you have your own engine etc etc to the tune of tens of thousands and your inspected and mystery shopped! Since our Russian coal ran out a few years, we have had Chinese and now Polish. Chinese burn to nothing really quickly but doesnt clinker or ash. Polish has a high ash content and does clinker.
Over here in the States, I think a lot of people just don't get it. They don't have the curiosity to go see a steam locomotive. My local tourist railroad notes very little difference in ridership between steam and diesel powered trains. For a lot of Americans, just riding a train is an exotic experience in and of itself. You can put any old geep in front and it doesn't matter. Yet then, even getting people to come out to ride a train is a bit of a challenge because nobody thinks to do it. Thomas used to be huge draw and kept my local museum afloat, but interest in Thomas is a fraction of what it used to be. So themed events have become huge. The tourist railroad just had a "Swiftie Train" this year, featuring a Taylor Swift impersonater. To us that sounds absolutely ridiculous, but if it draws the normies in, then so be it.
Fifty quid for a gala ticket is at face value, pricey. But if you really want to go and you’ve got your travel costs, possibly accommodation cost either the night before or that night if you’re doing two days, fifteen quid for a meal in a pub and a fiver a pint at most pubs these days, then griping about the fifty quid ticket is tantamount to arguing they should let you in for nothing. A west end show is a ton a ticket, Glastonbury is expensive but you can stay for six days and never run out of stuff to see. The people who moan don’t stop drinking four quid coffees
While I've in recent years become a fan of narrow gauge, live steam, and Grand Scale (all three due to cheaper materials and maintenance), I've been a fan of standard gauge railroads and railways for a long while now. I don't have problems with Thomas & Friends and Bachmann Trains merch at heritage railroads and railroad museums, but I feel like Thomas' AEG reboot stuff bites just seeing it overshadow the good old Thomas & Friends stuff on the shelves at some gift shops and is much at times to make a profit for the museums. I'm from the United States of America, and I hope you and your railways out in the good ol' land of the United Kingdom are doing fine this year.
currently at the Ecclesbourne Valley Railway, we have a lot of paying passengers and lot's of coal left in the main area. but we also have emergency supply near the diesel depo, the two Andrew Barcley loco's and are 4MT. We good for coal but we need are other loco back from peak-rail. But Peak-Rail air being stubborn and not giving us are engine when they overhauled it and in return they run it in and then give it back to us.
Maybe bio coal or biomass could replace coal as the fuel source. As for ice rinks in engine or rolling stock sheds it definitely is interesting and you have lots to look at. The Rail Preservation Society of Ireland rotates their locomotives where two are in traffic and the rest getting overhauled, in addition some locomotives will never be in traffic again due to age or size.
Answers on a postcard? Less railways. These railways rely almost without exception on three very limited users. Enthusiasts, people on a day out, and perhaps corporate days out. When you open a new one you divide that pool of possible customers further and further. Might just have to lose a few. Not everything needs reopened and not everything can or should be saved.
I'd agree. We're beyond market saturation and this is something which was first aired in the 1980s! In Staffordshire, for example, there's five heritage railways: Foxfield and Churnet Valley more or less next door. Both do different things, but essentially a train ride in a Mk1 carriage. But one has big engines, long run, the other doesn't. Then there's Chasewater which basically does what Foxfield does. Two narrow gauge - Apedale and Amerton. As well as Statfold and the miniature Rudyard Lake on top. The tourist economy cannot support so many railways doing essentially the same thing, of different lengths and gauges. Families looking for a day out will compare prices, and seek out which gives the best value for money for a day out. And will compare value for money with the top attraction in the county, Alton Towers, or Drayton Manor. When a ticket to ride on a steam train for a few miles is more expensive, offers less value for money in terms of time spent, customer service, presentation, food, things to do and see, than those two, then there's a problem. And that will be the problem moving forward: the cost of running heritage trains which can only increase from now on in, and how that stacks up with comparable attractions near by.
@@AnthonyDawsonHistoryWell said! Has been talked about for a long time but is viewed as heretical speak to many in the enthusiast community. Should also be noted just how much the has been spent buying and moving around stock with the good intention of restoring it to working order because it is a personal favourite of someone which then ends up as an eyesore in a siding. Now I'm not saying scrap everything we have duplicates of but this has created quite serious issue with presenting good impressions. Lines of rusting duplicate diesel locos, steam stuff still not restored because it would struggle to find a place to make a living, the actual historically important stuff left outside and given the occasional lick of paint if it's lucky because we spent big on all this stuff with best intentions but little long term thinking. It got to a point where a few places terminated agreements to house things if I remember correctly because they felt they were just becoming dumping grounds for people's pet projects that went no where and gave them a poor image. Barrow hill springs to mind but there were others.
Yeah. Plus the fact that so many railways run practically daily. Like there's no need to run every day of the week during high season, on the continent most heritage lines only run 2 or 3 days a week even during the peak of summer. Like Denmarks oldest heritage railway, "Museumsbanen Maribo-Bandholm" runs only on Wednesdays, Thursdays, and Sundays, and the wednesdays ones are diesel with only Thursdays and Sundays having steam power.
@@drdewott9154 running daily can work out nicely if you have a minimum underlying passenger base, for example if another tourist business does bus tours of key sights around the UK and a railway can get into the itinerary of those tours aimed at the overseas market and drop off a coach load of passengers day in day out that could allow such a thing to be quite a viable proposition but this requires a railway that can put on a regular performance and provide scenery, a historically immersive experience or otherwise has some claim to fame e.g. the Jacobite service and it's link into that book by she who will not be named(as much as you can call that a heritage railway enterprise in the sense discussed here but it's an example of a viable and lucrative tourist enterprise around railways)
@@drdewott9154 Plus, say in France there's a huge difference between the purely commercial "chemins de fer touristique" and the "musee des chemins de fer a vapeur". That's a really useful definition as many of our UK lines are trying to be both at once and I dont think that's a wise move. Equally there are many odd and simply wrong ideas about Museums and what Museums are....... I also don't think UK enthusiasts are quite aware how lucky they are and how unique the UK set up is compared to the rest of the world. In fact, one may go further and say English enthusiasts. Very different picture in Ireland and Scotland.
Coal being sourced from Australia? Well, I'm glad that we Aussie's are able to help keep the UK's heritage railways alive... I wouldn't be surprised if it's cheaper to export our coal to the UK then re-import it FROM the UK than it is to just buy it straight from the pits here... I suppose oil firing steam locos is one of the advantages that the heritage lines in Victoria and NSW have as opposed to WA, as (if I remember correctly...) engines such as the VR A2w's and R class hudsons are oil burners, compared to the likes of WA's S549, G233 and W945 which are all coal fired. I'm not sure how bad the prices and stuff are up in old Blighty, but I sure as hell know that down under people are tightening their belts like no tomorrow, and the muppets in charge don't seem to give two blasts of a Gresley 3 chime about the heritage circuit, especially where railways are concerned...
The Durango and Silverton recently finished converting all their steam locos to oil burning. Perhaps British heritage railways should contact them on how to do it?
It was very pricy and required redesign of firebox and stay bolts. UK engineering and boiler firms have the ability, it just comes down to cost and something forcing the change. They had no choice if they wanted to continue running steam due to the restrictions placed on them by the state and federal government after a forest fire they were deemed guilty of starting.
I've always wondered why UK railways haven't moved to oil burning. Thank you for talking Through it a little bit. As a US resident, I'm used to oil burners and with the Southwest always having so much oil, that's why a lot of railroads had them. I hope you all can find coal or a coal replacement that will keep everything steaming. 😢
It passed its free stint on UA-cam as the Fitzwilliam SLIP came out. So it's now available as a Digital Download from my online shop and via Patreon & YT Membership on the 'Complete SLIPs' tier.
Would any heritage railways try to tap into the films/TV shows their rolling stock has featured in? The NYMR are doing it, so perhaps other railways could try it. The Bluebell and Severn Valley have been in a lot of stuff, and individual locos like Crab 130065 in Paddington 2 and 92134 in the latest Indiana Jones could show off their stardom.
Simple open the Welsh coal mines again there’s still plenty of coal left there. Queen Victoria would only use Welsh coal and most steam train companies insisted on using Welsh coal.
Well someone would still have to open the mines again and be able to make a profit off of it. And its not certain that the demand of heritage lines is enough to warrant such.
I guess their gonna need to follow the us example of heratige railroading diversity still do what theyve been all known for while aslo doing freigth work to those with a connection to the mainline network
Thomas the tank is dead. This will unfortunately massively reduce the amount of new young enthusiast popping out of the oven. I'm 15, and I remember when the only gimmick family events my local railway had was santa, the Easter bunny and Thomas the tank. Now its bluey, Paddington, classic cars, weird and wonderful galas. Now I'm complaining if it keep the railway from going bankrupt, but they can't do this forever. And I think I have a solution. I think the government needs to invest in connecting a large amount of heritage lines to mainline stations. And heriatage lines can work with the mainlines to offer real train services, by steam of course. For example my local railway the gwili, would be able to perfectly connect up to platform 3 of carmarthen station wich goes largely unused. This way someone in bronwydd, quite a densely populated area could catch a train to the station and change over. Also this would allow the lines to let mainline freight pass through them for some revenue
as an american i genuinely don't know how you brits are able to deal with all this stuff and not go crazy. no coal production for heritage lines, walls of red tape, and I've even heard there are some rather nutty politicians who want to ban heritage services entirely. at this point you might want to consider selling your old engines to heritage lines over here. we at least still have coal.
Hey Chris, know it's a taboo and seen a few other channels discuss it, but why hasn't anyone thought of adding a battery-electric loco or even a brake tender to pick up the slack at where steam traction lacks = starting and stopping. I'm definitely referring to any benefits to be had with main line steam services with a diesel electric in town rather than heritage rail trundling at 25mph. But still... The thought of a revAMPed preserved battery loco shunter or an EV converted Railcard does allure me, even if Vivarail still poses teething issues.
Coming from Ireland, the very few Steam preservation trains that Ireland sees on a rare Sunday are practically at or over their limit with 8-10 carriages. Merlin had famously travelled to Rosslare for the first time few years back but failed on return, it failed most of its journeys iirc without any rear loco to aid or rescue it on the spot. ..seems like a nobrainer to have a battery electric loco aiding a heavy +70 year old loco and its train to stop and start where the steam performs at its worst in order for the steam to quickly be performing at its best at crusing speed (where electrics do not).
Can I make a very small request? Could you not call the house elf president of Russia "Vlad" again? I'm no fan of that man. I hate him even more than most people in the UK or America, not despite, but because I am Russian-American. I hate that man, I hate that monster. But I also cannot stand hearing people call him "Vlad." It's all too common, all the US comedians, such as Colbert, do it. But the thing is, "Vlad" is not a Russian nickname. "Vlad" is a Romanian name associated in the west with vampires. Putin deserves to be likened to a vampire, but calling him that just reminds me too much of the Cold War vilification of my heritage, my culture. "Vladimir" is a beautiful name, with some of the most wonderful people in the world bearing it. My uncle's name is "Vladimir." The President of of Ukraine, Volodymyr Zelensky, that's just the Ukrainian version of the same name. In Russian, a "Vladimir" is usually known as "Volodya," or even more diminutive, "Vova," or "Vovka." If you want to call that man by a derogatory nickname, you should use something like "Vovka," as that's the one that is the most diminutive, and thus the most potentially belittling too. Unlike calling him "Vlad," which draws from a history of exoticizing and demonizing eastern European cultures, calling him "Vovka" insults him in a way that shows understanding and solidarity with the culture. Because here's the thing, there are so many Russians that are against what their government is doing, even if there are many who are so completely brainwashed by the propaganda too. Russians are being sent to die in Ukrainian, Russians who don't in any way want to be there. Russians are losing their sons, their brothers, their fathers, and those that haven't been fooled to think this is Ukraine and the West's fault, they hate that man more than anyone else. I'll just finish by saying why the little thing of saying "Vlad" is such a big deal to me. I don't know if the UK understands this phenomenon as much as the US does, but there is such a history here of purposefully mispronouncing or shortening "ethnic" names in a way that is willfully hurtful, even signalling your xenophobia or racism. Just today I heard another horrible wannabe dictator calling the Vice President of our country, "kuh-MAH-luh." People have been saying KAmala Harris's name for years now, there is no way accenting the wrong syllable is an innocent mistake, it's a deliberate bullying tactic that seeks to cast her as an exotic other, not the "real American" imagined by his bigoted populist base. It's a thing I've experienced all too personally as people willfully mispronounce, or refuse to learn to pronounce, my brothers' "ethic" names. This is why, even if it is targeted toward someone who deserves all the hate and ridicule in the world, it still feels so wrong to me hearing people call the president of Russia "Vlad." I kind of felt a similar thing with John Oliver's use of "Drumpf." It just reminds me too much of that kind of ethnicity based bullying.
@@PressPlayStudio_Official Not even 1% the point of what I'm talking about. I didn't say don't bring him up. Of course he can talk about the effect geopolitical turmoil is having on heritage railways. It's about using the nickname "Vlad."
@@ChristheXelent Lol, yes you can call him Dobbie. The house elf comparison is very funny. Thank you so much for the understanding. I wish I could get everyone to stop using "Vlad," but it's so widespread of a phenomenon, and I don't blame people for doing it. It's a small thing, but it means a lot to me.
Ive never gotten the whole "I don't like this Bluey/Paddington/Kid show week end"
Then don't go that week. There's plenty of other events, galas, etc that you can go to instead or go a day when they're just running with no events or themes.
Agreed, and such events are arguably less controversial then something like DOWT, no repainted engines to trigger rivit counters and all.
@@samwilson4870 I hate it on social media when the local community mocked the GCR when they where doing the night running gala when on Facebook they where like "How many tickets you gonna buy" and the reply back is "None preferably"
Still going to repeat myself from the past;
Heritage lines with mainline connections should look into allowing their tracks to be used for freight shipments. It helps some major US railroads, like Strasburg, balance thier books.
Yeah. Idk why that isn't done much in Britain, especially seeing as preserved diesels being stand-ins for modern equivalents was WAY more common than anyone would've thought. There's the BR class 14 for Network Rail, the BR class 55 for GB Railfreight, and there's still 100 BR Class 08s still in revenue service, with 82 preserved!
Heritage Railways could also provide transit tickets for people who just wanna go from Point A to B without using a car! It won't solve ALL their problems, but it'd certainly help!
maybe there isn't any freight traffic on said lines. Strasburg connected to a large farming economy. Meanwhile, there aren't enough business to need rail (especially after breixt).
@@gamerfan8445 for example, the KWVR, the majority of freight traffic through keighley on rail is mostly aggregates from swinden quarry
In Sweden atleast, doing so would put the heritage railway in the category of a commercial operator, and subject it to all the berueocracy of one. Needless to say I wish to see it on my railway but with the requirements and fees involved it will never happen.
That only really works if there's somewhere at the other end of the line to generate or receive goods
I volunteer at a heritage railway on tbe continent. Despite the high coal prices, we've been actually improving our income and spending year after year recently. A really good marketing team, figuring out when there's the most demand and only run those days really help. Even in high summer, we don't run daily, only on Wednesdays and in the weekends. But another good source of income we've recently found is the storage of unused modern freight wagons. We have a few kilometers of double track, but only actually use one of those lines, with the other only receiving the minimal amount of maintenance. Currently, we have a long line of brand new, unloaded container wagons stored there. It doesnt hinder the passengers view of the landscape, and just them standing there earns money on a piece of track that otherwise would go unused.
Yeah thats also a good point you bring up. The UK not only has oversaturated its number of heritage railways but all the lines also run every day or almost every day in the high season which is insane. Even the most popular heritage societies here in Denmark only run 2 or 3 days a week during the peak of summer. That way you also dont spread your ressources too thin as a society.
To be quite honest, I find non gala events like family events or others seems to work much more than enthusiast events. And a big thing that took place at both Bluebell and Kent & East Sussex Railways was their Star Wars event, as a fan of Star Wars and a steam railway enthusiast, these events are super fantastic as well work even better in my opinion.
I've never been to one of these events, but the idea of Palpatine at the controls and Vader shoveling coal is very entertaining
Babe wake up, chris has uploaded a new editiorial.
Speaking as an employee of a famous tourist railroad in Nevada, we've found that holding theme trains during the holiday seasons and the occasional murder mystery train has been a great success...... when steam powered. The big challenge for us this year has been the lack of steam power due to the wheel of expired boiler tickets landing right on us.
For the usual passenger trains, the WW2 vintage GE diesel is sufficient to attract passengers despite quite a few being disappointed in not being able to ride on a steamer. However, the theme trains have been getting punched around like no one's business. When people are seeing the higher ticket prices and noting that they aren't getting the full treatment of a hard working steam locomotive deep in mountain territory, what would normally be a quick selling excursion becomes sad.
This is one of those things that can be learned from tourist railways in the United States: theme weekends, potential freight traffic on lines with a mainline connection, and maybe having more diesel hauled services during the weekdays may help in reducing the overall costs (not just in operating but also maintaining locomotives) and being more financially successful.
The reason it’s like this in the US is simple: diversity in equipment. It’s extremely rare to have equipment from all the same road together in a realistic consist from that time, it’s even rarer to have the consists and locomotives operating on home rails. The “historic” aspect of it simply isn’t as prevalent and can’t be as prevalent.
The UK can do both, the entertainment and more casual side of heritage railways doesn’t have to come at the expense of realism and historic operations. It’s all in good fun, whether it’s having an ice skating rink inside of a loco shed, a dinosaur weekend, or painting a bulleid pacific in purple.
Me and my family purchased a yearly pass for the NYMR in October last year, and we’ve been going every few months since. I’m keen to support them and I sometimes buy stuff from the Grosmont shed shop, and I donated a little bit to help the Q6 overhaul. My biggest worry is that the NYMR will try to promote a “modern” image rather than tapping into the fact they’re a vintage heritage railway in idyllic countryside.
I like how certain railways now catagorise their events as either 'family' or 'enthusiast' events, making it clear the priority and target audience for each. Aren't stuff like Santa Specials some of the biggest money earners for any heritage railway? And honestly, as much as I prefer enthusiasts events, if heritage railways can find as many ways as possible to bring folks through the door, go for it. Railways are living museums, and all museums need to find ways to attract folks to come and visit. Its nice to see railways playing with more themed weekends than just 1940s now - 1960s events are fab for the vintage fashion & culture crowd (see the popularity of the Goodwood Revival as both a historic racing *and* vintage event!), & I'd love to see more 1980s events - give me some NSE and InterCity stock mixed with 80s music & fashion!
I'm also reminded of the Taw Valley Jubilee repaint - was it to everyone's taste? No, but if it attracted more folks to the railway, then great. And its not like Taw Valley needed extensive modifications either - a repaint is one of the cheapest things you can do to a loco, and its easy to change it & put it into an authentic 'period' livery again later. So that to me made sense as a way to make a bit more money for *relatively* little expenditure.
I also attended the Bluebell Railway Branch Line Gala a few months back, and really enjoyed it! It felt different enough to a normal steam gala to feel special, & the fact it was themed around branch lines meant that smaller locos like tank engines could take centre stage, all while using less coal & costing less to run than equivalent flagship express locos. If they were still able to draw big crowds - & the day I was there looked plenty busy! - without nessecerily needing to wheel out the 'big guns' as it were? Ideal.
At middleton we are struggling, we may struggle to survive past next year, but our commercial team don't seem to remember we are running a railway with a shop and cafe, not the other way round
Sounds like your commercial team have it the right way round. Running trains doesn't make money. It's the cafeand the shop which make money. Operating steam trains is usually a loss maker.The cafe and shop can be a source of income all year round, if there is the volunteer labour to do so. Same with running a licenced bar, too. That's where the money is made.
The Middleton has/will always struggled to attract visitors because of its location. I've been several times since 1980, and I couldn't say: "How did I get here!" for any visit. The public transport links were always bad, and the signage non-existent. That is caused by Leeds Council, but why hasn't the Middleton managed to 'persuade' Leeds Council to include focusing on the oldest surviving railway in the world, in any of it's rebuilds of Hunslet ?
And not to mention our events haven't been doing the best either - the teddy bear picnic brought in lots of revenue, but other days like the steampunk have had quite disappointing turnouts. In fairness to our team though, the shop does make quite a lot of our money!
@@glynwelshkarelian3489 The council has things to focus on other than us - they've really not got much funding, to the point where they've been closing down council-owned museums recently. It's sad, but we're far from the top of their priority list.
@@AnthonyDawsonHistory usually you would be right but the stuff we sell in our shop at middleton and the volume that we sell doesn't cover running costs and neither does ticket sales, we struggle to attract people, and as Glyn said the transport links are shit (for lack of other words) there used to be a bus route that passed the front of our main yard/station and museum once an hour on a sunday, arriva shortened the route and now every public transport option requires at least a 10 minute walk, for families with younger children, those who are very young and just stopped using pushchairs, this option isn't great. There is also just a lack of funding south of the river in Leeds, south Leeds is like it's own seperate city
"Even heritage railways were never meant to make a profit"
(says me; going through a phase on understanding how transite got to where it is today and how to bring it back)
We're (the LUKR) doing a lego show next weekend at the SVR. Strikes me as an absolute no brainer for railways looking to generate interest and ticket sales from a new generation.
My local (The Mid Norfolk) seems to basicslly be doing a mix of all the above, as well as offering mainline access for storage and (potentially far off in the future) freight. Seems to me to survive you need to keep adaptable. As much as I loved the recent steam gala weekend, I know its things like the polar express & dinosaur weekends which keep said railway afloat
Bluey and Paddington trains seem pretty tame compared to some of the event trains I have heard of here in the US (stares at "Taylor Swift train" events).
It’s a shame to hear that enthusiasts grumble about this sort of thing. I welcome heritage railways trying new things! I hope more follow the same path and it works out well for them
Yeah, and at the end of the day, its a matter of survival. One has got to do what one has got to do to make ends meet. And these events are still great possible gateways to getting kids and familys to potentially gain an interest in heritage trains. And even if not, you're still diversifying your business and making it easier to stay afloat.
A couple of days ago I randomly found myself at 'Whistlestop Valley' (formally the 'Kirklees Light Railway', a narrow gauge in West Yorkshire). I hated the name. The railway had zero history displayed or printed; zero things in the shop for serious railway fans to buy. It is totally focused on selling to families with young children. I bought a ticket anyway, and loved it! A wobbly little train going at 12mph. I was 6 years old again.
Narrow gauge costs so much less to run that standard gauge heritage railways simply couldn't afford Whistlestop's brutal rebranding; and trying would make too many stalwarts quit; but just running steam trains is no longer enough.
The Leighton Buzzard Railway (my line) has implemented several events displayed in the video i.e dinosaur, bluey, vintage vehicles etc and as much as people sneer, it basically sells out every time for the major family appeal.
We've also had to adapt with galas, there haven't been visiting engines at a gala since before COVID because it's expensive and our diverse home fleet is usually up to the job anyway.
Also volunteer shortage is very real and absolutely affecting every line, SIGN UP!!!
At peak rail we have been putting on a mix of events mainly family and enthusiast events and we make so much money of them
Coal should be used for selected locomotives on special occasions. It does a lot of damage due to corrosive gases and abrasive ash. With light oil, you gain over 20% more power as a bonus. You can also add pre-heating to cut warm up time and save time afterwards as there is no ash, clinker and soot to be cleared out.
DLM of Winterthur, Switzerland, are the experts in this technology.
Working at the GCR seeing events company like Fox and Edward's Events book put 2 coaches on one of our trains for a day and then are able to FILL those thoses out entirely to the the Brim makes us honestly question what are we doing wrong take there fish and chips trains they thet run they book 2 TSO's and Charge £80 a couple so 40 per head so 120 × £40 x 4 ... where at the same time the guard is oftern reporting when we ask how many are on we get at the peak maybe 20 ... 30 people on the DMU to the branchline unless it's Iris it's oftern maybe a Dozen only when Iris is running the branch is then standing room only but that mean the B set or even A set are running as Basically Empty Coaching stock
This topic also covers the plethora of miniature railways across the UK. We're feeling all the same issues the 1:1 scale railways do 😬
I definitely think that these newer gimmicks end up working but they have to be planned right. You need to make sure you arent conflicting with other events, not just in terms of railway stuff. But one of the strongest things a heritage railways can seemingly do is team up with other community or vintage organisations in the same field and region. Like model railway clubs, or vintage car collections, or anything of that nature. My local society's most succesful event is the annual heritage fair that happens here, of which the train is just one of many attractions, but still one of the primary ones amongst vintage cars, vintage military reenactments, tractor towing, vintage fairground rides, fleamarkets, live music, and more.
Though IDK if I can say we're in the same boat. I mean my local society doesnt even have an operational steam engine, though theyre working to get 2 back in running order. And since our heritage rail sector is much smaller than the British, we also dont really have Galas here. Many societies dont have their own lines and they're generally threatened by a rollout of ERTMS on the mainline network apart from some locally governed branches. And the ones that do own their own lines generally drown in the level of paperwork that the big railways need to fill out, to the point where it is draining ressources from other aspects of the societies.
Living in the plastic age
California has barely any train events. Pacifically next to Mexico. They may have like 0.1% of a model railway shop or some train stuff lying in museums of popular museums or display. But even then there’s barely any preserve railways in California. It just saddens my heart to see that everyone is preferring over Bluey, superheroes and other modern franchises then trains. Makes me wonder if America forgotten that trains were essential.
6:04 I think the Polar Express would disagree there 😂
Themed trains have helped tourist operations in the U.S., especially as Thomas the Tank engines popularity with kids has decreased thanks to newer shows. And it may seem odd but for a while, a large chunk of US heritage lines did not have the catering services or liquor licenses to offer extra service. My latest trip out to the west saw the majority of heritage lines either have bar service or offer beer and wine in the gift shop. And places partnering with other businesses like craft breweries and restaurants have helped attract folks to the railroad and even expand main profit drivers such as Christmas trains.
Arigna is developing a bio-coal made out of the bi-products of vegetable oil production. It's working well in Bord na Móna Barclay LM44 (Tom Rolts sister) and it's going pretty well so far. That could be an option in the future. :D
Common Bio-coal W
Ive always maintained that our heritage railways are theatre, and therefore have to cater accordingly. Some have done extremely well out of this approach. As much as id love to visit the Bluebell and travel in a Birdcage trio set hauled by a Chatham or Brighton tank locomotive, i know that the only way of tasting the past is to fund it from the present day. And if that requires a weekend of kids riding around on velociraptors, then so be it. Pragmatism is the yardstick of the free market.
With the coal shortage in mind, even if you can figure out the perfect formula for e-coal -- for instance, if you took hardwood, hemp, bamboo, and wood from hybrid poplar trees and evaluated the necessary percentages of each ingredient required for the formula -- the biggest problem with *that* is finding an economical balance to afford all the ingredients to experiment with and utilize in order to unravel the mystery of how to create the perfect e-coal.
And even if you could rebuild a steam locomotive and convert it to run on electric heat, like you said about converting them to oil-burners, it would all depend on whether or not they were built to run on electric heat in the first place. "It can be hard and potentially quite damaging," as you said, "to convert the engine effectively."
But with all the information I've written here, it's all mere speculation, considering how little I know of the mechanics behind building, manufacturing, maintaining, repairing and running a steam locomotive, so by all means, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
I wonder if foreign tourists are a big untapped market for heritage railways. They could do more to position themselves as tourist attractions - work with tour operators and guidebooks, offer day tours with bus transport from major cities, etc.
I volunteer on the Stradbally Woodland Railway where Chris filmed bonus material for the season 1 DVD. Social media has transformed our business. Our quiet days now are the same as our busiest days 5 years ago. Also we're starting to burn bio coal in our steam loco and it's working pretty well. It's in development at the moment and hopefully it will be fit for big engines in the future. It's carbon neutral so it has a lot of potential 😁
I am still waiting for him to cover the NCC WT class.
I am still waiting for him to cover the NCC WT class
I don’t care that I’m 30, I would go to a Bluey themed train event!
Or better yet, a Steampunk Bluey event!
Oh hell Yes
It's interesting that you mentioned model show at Statfold because the same weekend in October you got GETS (The Great Electric Train Show) which is the big event on that weekend for the model railways but the same weekend is Warley at Statfold and the truth is most likely I be going to Warley than GETS, great video
Statfold is local to me and you have to look at what they offer, there is a lot for non-railway people to keep them interested (so I to will be going to Warley). I would commend any railway for trying anything to get revenue in. Look at the station at Caernarfon, it is not just a station but also can be used as a community space. I know the plans for Wharf station on the TR have a similar scheme in mind.
@@Ensign_Redshirt it also local to me as well as it only a 30 minute drive from where I live
Brilliant video Chris
The line i volunteer at does have a hefty amount of the child themed days and ssem to do well from it, they have also started to branch out into more simple dining options cream teas etc which again we dont have enough volunteer numbers to run enough services so again very popular. I do think galas can be incredibly risky its a fine balance of reading your audience. We had 2 tender locos as guests this year one was on its last running before overhaul it was mainly a mainline runner so the novelty factor helped. Would there of been the same excitement for say a black five or standard 4 tank.
Perfect example is im going to the severn valley gala in September. I booked before knowing the guest locos when i heard 1 was lady of legend. I must confess i was a little disappointed as i feel like i have seen that everywhere in last few years.if that was the only guest for the cost of the trip i would have had second thoughs
At least on the heritage line I volunteer at here in Sweden our problem isn’t money it’s personnel. We could easily draw more passengers if we could run more trains. A lot of the time we struggle to run trains at the start and end of our running season.
I fear lest there is a slew of miracles most of the uks heritage railways will have to either close (for the smaller organisations) or (for the larger railways) put most of their stock into mothballs and try to weather the current economic hardships until conditions improve.
The main issue is that most of the issues faced by the heritage railways are symptoms of wider economic troubles in the uk and out of the railways hands.
Worst case scenario, most standard gauge heritage railways close leaving only the narrow gauge stuff
Utter tosh @shepherd8171. Exactly the same things were said when the Talyllyn, Festiniog and Bluebell were first preserved and look at them now. Let's be more positive. This year has seen two new build locomotives enter service and the Kent & East Sussex has permission to extend to Robertsbridge. Also I was at the Swanage Railway last week and talking to the volunteers they're on the road to recovery.
The RPSI rotates their locomotives.
Enthusiasts might be willing to pay 40 quid a ticket but bring sandwhiches and dont spend any money and often arrive by public transport. Mum, Dad and 2.4 children at a bluey or peppa pig day will spend 20 quid a ticket but also buy food, go to the shop and have their own transport.
Days out with Thomas though are slightly different as you have to do it through Mattel and pay rights even if you have your own engine etc etc to the tune of tens of thousands and your inspected and mystery shopped!
Since our Russian coal ran out a few years, we have had Chinese and now Polish. Chinese burn to nothing really quickly but doesnt clinker or ash. Polish has a high ash content and does clinker.
Over here in the States, I think a lot of people just don't get it. They don't have the curiosity to go see a steam locomotive. My local tourist railroad notes very little difference in ridership between steam and diesel powered trains. For a lot of Americans, just riding a train is an exotic experience in and of itself. You can put any old geep in front and it doesn't matter. Yet then, even getting people to come out to ride a train is a bit of a challenge because nobody thinks to do it. Thomas used to be huge draw and kept my local museum afloat, but interest in Thomas is a fraction of what it used to be. So themed events have become huge. The tourist railroad just had a "Swiftie Train" this year, featuring a Taylor Swift impersonater. To us that sounds absolutely ridiculous, but if it draws the normies in, then so be it.
Fifty quid for a gala ticket is at face value, pricey. But if you really want to go and you’ve got your travel costs, possibly accommodation cost either the night before or that night if you’re doing two days, fifteen quid for a meal in a pub and a fiver a pint at most pubs these days, then griping about the fifty quid ticket is tantamount to arguing they should let you in for nothing. A west end show is a ton a ticket, Glastonbury is expensive but you can stay for six days and never run out of stuff to see. The people who moan don’t stop drinking four quid coffees
While I've in recent years become a fan of narrow gauge, live steam, and Grand Scale (all three due to cheaper materials and maintenance), I've been a fan of standard gauge railroads and railways for a long while now. I don't have problems with Thomas & Friends and Bachmann Trains merch at heritage railroads and railroad museums, but I feel like Thomas' AEG reboot stuff bites just seeing it overshadow the good old Thomas & Friends stuff on the shelves at some gift shops and is much at times to make a profit for the museums. I'm from the United States of America, and I hope you and your railways out in the good ol' land of the United Kingdom are doing fine this year.
currently at the Ecclesbourne Valley Railway, we have a lot of paying passengers and lot's of coal left in the main area. but we also have emergency supply near the diesel depo, the two Andrew Barcley loco's and are 4MT.
We good for coal but we need are other loco back from peak-rail.
But Peak-Rail air being stubborn and not giving us are engine when they overhauled it and in return they run it in and then give it back to us.
Maybe bio coal or biomass could replace coal as the fuel source. As for ice rinks in engine or rolling stock sheds it definitely is interesting and you have lots to look at.
The Rail Preservation Society of Ireland rotates their locomotives where two are in traffic and the rest getting overhauled, in addition some locomotives will never be in traffic again due to age or size.
Unfortunately this episode highlights why steam was rapidly replaced by diesel/electric traction commercially once those technologies became viable.
Answers on a postcard? Less railways. These railways rely almost without exception on three very limited users. Enthusiasts, people on a day out, and perhaps corporate days out.
When you open a new one you divide that pool of possible customers further and further.
Might just have to lose a few. Not everything needs reopened and not everything can or should be saved.
I'd agree. We're beyond market saturation and this is something which was first aired in the 1980s! In Staffordshire, for example, there's five heritage railways: Foxfield and Churnet Valley more or less next door. Both do different things, but essentially a train ride in a Mk1 carriage. But one has big engines, long run, the other doesn't. Then there's Chasewater which basically does what Foxfield does. Two narrow gauge - Apedale and Amerton. As well as Statfold and the miniature Rudyard Lake on top. The tourist economy cannot support so many railways doing essentially the same thing, of different lengths and gauges. Families looking for a day out will compare prices, and seek out which gives the best value for money for a day out. And will compare value for money with the top attraction in the county, Alton Towers, or Drayton Manor. When a ticket to ride on a steam train for a few miles is more expensive, offers less value for money in terms of time spent, customer service, presentation, food, things to do and see, than those two, then there's a problem. And that will be the problem moving forward: the cost of running heritage trains which can only increase from now on in, and how that stacks up with comparable attractions near by.
@@AnthonyDawsonHistoryWell said! Has been talked about for a long time but is viewed as heretical speak to many in the enthusiast community.
Should also be noted just how much the has been spent buying and moving around stock with the good intention of restoring it to working order because it is a personal favourite of someone which then ends up as an eyesore in a siding. Now I'm not saying scrap everything we have duplicates of but this has created quite serious issue with presenting good impressions.
Lines of rusting duplicate diesel locos, steam stuff still not restored because it would struggle to find a place to make a living, the actual historically important stuff left outside and given the occasional lick of paint if it's lucky because we spent big on all this stuff with best intentions but little long term thinking. It got to a point where a few places terminated agreements to house things if I remember correctly because they felt they were just becoming dumping grounds for people's pet projects that went no where and gave them a poor image. Barrow hill springs to mind but there were others.
Yeah. Plus the fact that so many railways run practically daily. Like there's no need to run every day of the week during high season, on the continent most heritage lines only run 2 or 3 days a week even during the peak of summer. Like Denmarks oldest heritage railway, "Museumsbanen Maribo-Bandholm" runs only on Wednesdays, Thursdays, and Sundays, and the wednesdays ones are diesel with only Thursdays and Sundays having steam power.
@@drdewott9154 running daily can work out nicely if you have a minimum underlying passenger base, for example if another tourist business does bus tours of key sights around the UK and a railway can get into the itinerary of those tours aimed at the overseas market and drop off a coach load of passengers day in day out that could allow such a thing to be quite a viable proposition but this requires a railway that can put on a regular performance and provide scenery, a historically immersive experience or otherwise has some claim to fame e.g. the Jacobite service and it's link into that book by she who will not be named(as much as you can call that a heritage railway enterprise in the sense discussed here but it's an example of a viable and lucrative tourist enterprise around railways)
@@drdewott9154 Plus, say in France there's a huge difference between the purely commercial "chemins de fer touristique" and the "musee des chemins de fer a vapeur". That's a really useful definition as many of our UK lines are trying to be both at once and I dont think that's a wise move. Equally there are many odd and simply wrong ideas about Museums and what Museums are....... I also don't think UK enthusiasts are quite aware how lucky they are and how unique the UK set up is compared to the rest of the world. In fact, one may go further and say English enthusiasts. Very different picture in Ireland and Scotland.
Utah mentioned!!!
Coal being sourced from Australia? Well, I'm glad that we Aussie's are able to help keep the UK's heritage railways alive... I wouldn't be surprised if it's cheaper to export our coal to the UK then re-import it FROM the UK than it is to just buy it straight from the pits here... I suppose oil firing steam locos is one of the advantages that the heritage lines in Victoria and NSW have as opposed to WA, as (if I remember correctly...) engines such as the VR A2w's and R class hudsons are oil burners, compared to the likes of WA's S549, G233 and W945 which are all coal fired.
I'm not sure how bad the prices and stuff are up in old Blighty, but I sure as hell know that down under people are tightening their belts like no tomorrow, and the muppets in charge don't seem to give two blasts of a Gresley 3 chime about the heritage circuit, especially where railways are concerned...
The Durango and Silverton recently finished converting all their steam locos to oil burning. Perhaps British heritage railways should contact them on how to do it?
yes.
It was very pricy and required redesign of firebox and stay bolts. UK engineering and boiler firms have the ability, it just comes down to cost and something forcing the change. They had no choice if they wanted to continue running steam due to the restrictions placed on them by the state and federal government after a forest fire they were deemed guilty of starting.
speaking of thunderbolts last run if your doing rail reads then like i might of said before you might want to review that and what you make of it
"paying wages"
aren't the people who run Heritage lines volunteers?
Not 100% of them. Some railways have to employ a handful of full-timers for managerial or regular work
A George Harrison title. I love this so mutch!
My nearest railway was closed from flood damage, alough i think more people are bothered about the asda
Why not coordinate with local theatre and arts companies?
Bluey? In the thumbnail of a Eden Green video? 2024 is whack
I've always wondered why UK railways haven't moved to oil burning. Thank you for talking Through it a little bit. As a US resident, I'm used to oil burners and with the Southwest always having so much oil, that's why a lot of railroads had them. I hope you all can find coal or a coal replacement that will keep everything steaming. 😢
Chris, what happened to the SLiP on the LSWR T3? I was hoping to re-watch it and it’s just vanished.
It passed its free stint on UA-cam as the Fitzwilliam SLIP came out. So it's now available as a Digital Download from my online shop and via Patreon & YT Membership on the 'Complete SLIPs' tier.
Would any heritage railways try to tap into the films/TV shows their rolling stock has featured in? The NYMR are doing it, so perhaps other railways could try it. The Bluebell and Severn Valley have been in a lot of stuff, and individual locos like Crab 130065 in Paddington 2 and 92134 in the latest Indiana Jones could show off their stardom.
Simple open the Welsh coal mines again there’s still plenty of coal left there. Queen Victoria would only use Welsh coal and most steam train companies insisted on using Welsh coal.
Well someone would still have to open the mines again and be able to make a profit off of it. And its not certain that the demand of heritage lines is enough to warrant such.
@@drdewott9154 😂😂😂
@@drdewott9154 It absolutely isnt. The Heritage fuel market is tiny and not worth the cost and effort of mining the coal.
Biomass or bio coal is the solution.
@@OscarOSullivan true but Queen Victoria wouldn’t have gone for that 👍
I guess their gonna need to follow the us example of heratige railroading diversity still do what theyve been all known for while aslo doing freigth work to those with a connection to the mainline network
Thomas the tank is dead. This will unfortunately massively reduce the amount of new young enthusiast popping out of the oven. I'm 15, and I remember when the only gimmick family events my local railway had was santa, the Easter bunny and Thomas the tank. Now its bluey, Paddington, classic cars, weird and wonderful galas. Now I'm complaining if it keep the railway from going bankrupt, but they can't do this forever. And I think I have a solution. I think the government needs to invest in connecting a large amount of heritage lines to mainline stations. And heriatage lines can work with the mainlines to offer real train services, by steam of course. For example my local railway the gwili, would be able to perfectly connect up to platform 3 of carmarthen station wich goes largely unused. This way someone in bronwydd, quite a densely populated area could catch a train to the station and change over. Also this would allow the lines to let mainline freight pass through them for some revenue
Mean you wanna go to Dartmouth or kingswere Google maps already shows if you get there in services to change trains at Paignton
What’s the nearest tourist railway near the London Airport?
which airport?
Well… Bluebell Railway is not that far from London Gatwick.
Chinnor and princes risbrough in the Chilterns could be a good bet
Heathrow Airport
Probably the Epping Ongar Railway, located at the end of the Central Line
Are you a fan of queen? because you have mentioned them a few times.
Can British steam engines run on wood or charcoal?
No. Fireboxes are the wrong size, wrong shape. Wood hasnt sufficient calorific output.
It’s not the railways that should find ways to get money we need to find a way to give them money like patroon for example or a stream
I thought there was coal substituted
yellow coal talyllyn railway
Dialectical materialism?👀
as an american i genuinely don't know how you brits are able to deal with all this stuff and not go crazy. no coal production for heritage lines, walls of red tape, and I've even heard there are some rather nutty politicians who want to ban heritage services entirely. at this point you might want to consider selling your old engines to heritage lines over here. we at least still have coal.
Hey Chris, know it's a taboo and seen a few other channels discuss it, but why hasn't anyone thought of adding a battery-electric loco or even a brake tender to pick up the slack at where steam traction lacks = starting and stopping. I'm definitely referring to any benefits to be had with main line steam services with a diesel electric in town rather than heritage rail trundling at 25mph. But still... The thought of a revAMPed preserved battery loco shunter or an EV converted Railcard does allure me, even if Vivarail still poses teething issues.
Coming from Ireland, the very few Steam preservation trains that Ireland sees on a rare Sunday are practically at or over their limit with 8-10 carriages. Merlin had famously travelled to Rosslare for the first time few years back but failed on return, it failed most of its journeys iirc without any rear loco to aid or rescue it on the spot. ..seems like a nobrainer to have a battery electric loco aiding a heavy +70 year old loco and its train to stop and start where the steam performs at its worst in order for the steam to quickly be performing at its best at crusing speed (where electrics do not).
Can I make a very small request? Could you not call the house elf president of Russia "Vlad" again?
I'm no fan of that man. I hate him even more than most people in the UK or America, not despite, but because I am Russian-American. I hate that man, I hate that monster. But I also cannot stand hearing people call him "Vlad."
It's all too common, all the US comedians, such as Colbert, do it. But the thing is, "Vlad" is not a Russian nickname. "Vlad" is a Romanian name associated in the west with vampires. Putin deserves to be likened to a vampire, but calling him that just reminds me too much of the Cold War vilification of my heritage, my culture. "Vladimir" is a beautiful name, with some of the most wonderful people in the world bearing it. My uncle's name is "Vladimir." The President of of Ukraine, Volodymyr Zelensky, that's just the Ukrainian version of the same name.
In Russian, a "Vladimir" is usually known as "Volodya," or even more diminutive, "Vova," or "Vovka." If you want to call that man by a derogatory nickname, you should use something like "Vovka," as that's the one that is the most diminutive, and thus the most potentially belittling too. Unlike calling him "Vlad," which draws from a history of exoticizing and demonizing eastern European cultures, calling him "Vovka" insults him in a way that shows understanding and solidarity with the culture.
Because here's the thing, there are so many Russians that are against what their government is doing, even if there are many who are so completely brainwashed by the propaganda too. Russians are being sent to die in Ukrainian, Russians who don't in any way want to be there. Russians are losing their sons, their brothers, their fathers, and those that haven't been fooled to think this is Ukraine and the West's fault, they hate that man more than anyone else.
I'll just finish by saying why the little thing of saying "Vlad" is such a big deal to me. I don't know if the UK understands this phenomenon as much as the US does, but there is such a history here of purposefully mispronouncing or shortening "ethnic" names in a way that is willfully hurtful, even signalling your xenophobia or racism. Just today I heard another horrible wannabe dictator calling the Vice President of our country, "kuh-MAH-luh." People have been saying KAmala Harris's name for years now, there is no way accenting the wrong syllable is an innocent mistake, it's a deliberate bullying tactic that seeks to cast her as an exotic other, not the "real American" imagined by his bigoted populist base. It's a thing I've experienced all too personally as people willfully mispronounce, or refuse to learn to pronounce, my brothers' "ethic" names. This is why, even if it is targeted toward someone who deserves all the hate and ridicule in the world, it still feels so wrong to me hearing people call the president of Russia "Vlad." I kind of felt a similar thing with John Oliver's use of "Drumpf." It just reminds me too much of that kind of ethnicity based bullying.
Look you may hate him but he has a point because of the on going conflict we cannot atleast access half decent coal
@@PressPlayStudio_Official Not even 1% the point of what I'm talking about. I didn't say don't bring him up. Of course he can talk about the effect geopolitical turmoil is having on heritage railways. It's about using the nickname "Vlad."
Noted. Thankyou for enlightening me on the matter and I'm sorry for any harm caused.
Would you accept referring to him as Dobbie instead?
@@ChristheXelent Lol, yes you can call him Dobbie. The house elf comparison is very funny. Thank you so much for the understanding. I wish I could get everyone to stop using "Vlad," but it's so widespread of a phenomenon, and I don't blame people for doing it. It's a small thing, but it means a lot to me.