AMRAAM IS FINALLY HERE | War Thunder
Вставка
- Опубліковано 15 тра 2024
- LETS GOOOOO - except its 16v16 and absolutely terrible gameplay - as expected :(
(DECAL NOT INCLUDED IN ANY PURCHASE - it isn't done)
Use my link for 3% off the Gaijin Store: store.gaijin.net/catalog.php?...
My Discord: / discord
Air Models: airmodels.net/?aff=220
0:00 - Darter
1:45 - R-77
3:57 - PL-12
5:22 - AMRAAM
7:41 - MICA-EM
9:52 - Derby - Ігри
After playing some more of the event, in my experience notch/chaffing seems to be easier than I make it sound in the video.
Do you think 16v16 is the issue? Or that it's an issue of small maps for mach 2 aircraft with bvr missiles with airfields always opposite eachother causing furballs?
@@FutureFlash2034 16v16 is the main issue. As far as maps go, I dont think it matters what they do unless they fundamentally change the mechanics of air rb. The key to top tier is sticking with your team. No matter where they put airfields or spawn players, the meta will be to still all go one direction (left most likely) and group up because you have no choice. The larger number group has a massive advantage regardless of flight performance or weaponry. You'd be a fool to stick with your group of 3-4 and risk going up asgainst another group that was smart enough to follow the same direction as the rest of their teammates.
Most of the proposed "fixes" by the community hinge on 2 ideas:
1. "spreading out the map" by moving objectives around (PvE).
2. or having multiple spawn points that "force" people to spread out
The 1st being fundamentally flawed because it implies PvE has any outcome on how a match plays out. Where F-4S players carrying bombs decide to fly isn't going to have a huge impact on the match, just a longer hunt after the game has already been decided.
The 2nd works in theory, but again - hinges on the idea that people will just take off from their respective airfield/spawn point and just fly straight toward the enemy. I am extremely sceptical of that scenario, as we see right now "left xd" meta is very established for good reason.
How I access dev server?
@@Orion_179 PC only, you must install the dev client.
Although 16vs16 can be an issue, I think it is also important to bring AI ground forces to be much more powerful, so that people can't be close to the ground all the time (AAs will shoot them down). The ground hugging meta is so stupid
WE BETTER BE GETTING 10V10. They said it themselves, it's more fun
I can leak some documents if you want
@@SirMikato Please leak documents, i beg you
8v8
You know what’s more fun? The BLACK+DECKER Small Portable Washer, Washing Machine for Household Use, Portable Washer 0.9 Cu. Ft. with 5 Cycles, Transparent Lid & LED Display
@@Juzevs is there risk of my gajin Account getting Banned?
"The problem is 16v16, not the missiles" Perfect summary of the test so far.
Less teammate’s means less competition destroying bases and more xp😂😂😂.
@@itsrass1378 less enemies which means less fox 3s and better opportunities to bombers also. I really mean it, everything become a cluster f*ck and no bomber jet can play at all.
We NEED 8v8!
this and lack of meaningful objectives to support SL/RP grinds that bring fights into higher altitudes.
The typical IRL fighter squadron is 16-24 jets.
@Hoffmatic typically irl the entire squadron does not fly at the same time in such close proximity
0:03
I am mature.
I am mature.
I am mature.
AAAAAAA AMOGUS!!!
I thought the same thing
*A M O G U S*
0:04 amogus???
Rather suspicious
Some may even say it's... sus
My reaction exactly XDXD
Among Us has ruined a generation
Until now we are still cursed
0:03 DONT SAY IT DONT THINK IT
>No gameplay changes to make a better environment for Fox-3s
>Fox 3s not fun
Color me shocked. I’ve been saying it for YEARS. Fox-3s won’t change the game. Gaijin has to change the game around Fox-3s.
Player counts can be decreased next patch and nothing is going to change.
Colour*
Edit: it was a joke
The extra u that British people add gives me an aneurysm as a dyslexic
@@ArmUkraine No, u
I use American English at my discretion thank you
Color* @@ArmUkraine
Colour*
If they're intent on adding more and more modern missiles, they really need to implement jamming, which is an absolutely crucial piece of missile defense. Additionally, static AA emplacements.
They're making combined combat more and more necessary but they don't seem to be developing the game modes or mechanics that make it work.
Actually terrible radars im this game compensates jamming xD
@@LordDarthVader2004not even just terrible random and buggy
Sometimes enemies can track you through ducking terrain like what
Well jamming is sort of confirmed by the fact that in the sound files, Betty has a currently unused voiceline for "Jammer"
@@zacharymarino8926 damn cool
You do not need any planes or vehicles for any of the nations, you can just freely hop in to the event, I have 0 progress for Israel and UK but was still able to use Barak II and JAS-39C
You need any plane above rank 6 researched
@@sgdgtdhsdthth1035no you dont I was able to play france with a biplane
@@filipkatila5511how???
Its so goofy how the devblog literally says smaller groups are fun and then release this test with 16 vs 16. We need smaller team sizes for Air RB
nah you're washed. 16v16 is based.
@@steyrauga1 Based on what?
@@steyrauga1yeah, in props
F-15A was fitted with the MSIP upgrades that would allow it to carry AMRAAMs. I think that’d be a perfect excuse for gaijin to move it to 12.7
Honestly i kinda hope they keep the F-15A with just sparrows and then maybe add the F-15C with AMRAAMs at a higher BR
I really love the F-15A and separating it from the Fox-3 meta would keep it more fun in the future
Yes but it doesn’t have the radar, they never said it was an MSIP version they just said it’s a later model, I’d rather have an f15c with a new radar, cockpit, and skins than just the f15a with a new radar, f15c is cooler and just add it so we can have an older variant with sparrows, and a later with AMRAAMs just like the f16s
I think they’ll gate keep sparrows for f15C. Otherwise there’s no reason to grind it
@@splabooshkey3343I doubt they'll do that. they'll just make it suffer and not separate active missiles from semi-active. It's Gaijin.
@@splabooshkey3343agreed
after playing the test mode I have to say ARH dont change the gameplay much. The problem is still the 16v16 matchmaker
It’ll change the meta tho, these radar missiles are meant to be shot at higher alts with higher speeds to be more effective, people will realize that their missiles will have 4 times the range when they climb so they start to do that, the problem with the 16v16 is that you’ll have 16 people at high alts shooting 50-100 missiles per team, bring it down to 8v8 or even 10v10, they NEED to change it
No lol. Climbing will just get you killed even more consistently. As it is there is never any reason to climb.@@brodykloster2102
@@brodykloster2102most won't climb, the 🐑🐏🐑🐏🐑 will stay low
@@t2av159 hope they change it to be more realistic so that you can (And should) have players going at high alts and low alts
see: dcs
@@brodykloster2102fr the change its so useless.. I cant remember when it was added but dude, WHY. WHO ASKED FOR IT AND THOUGHT IT WAS A GOOD IDEA?!
I played 3-4 games when the dev server first opened with the MICAs, and it was mostly 8vs8 and 10vs10. It was actually quite a lot of fun. But yeah it was obvious that as soon as this would go to 16vs16, it would just become painful.
Fun meeting you in your Mirage game today on dev! Great vids as of recent, keep up the great content!
I love how we all unlocked the F15 foe the amraams and then Gaijin decided to let us test the amraams on the F16
no one unlocked the F15 for the amraams
we knew it was a frankenstein F15 that didnt have the proper equipment to have amraams
The A model had a later upgrade to have AMRAAMs but I’d rather see the A model keep sparrows to stay at a lower BR and give us the C model that has a better radar to use the AMRAAMS efficiently. Else what is the point is really grinding the C model when it is introduced if it is almost the same as the A model
@connormurphy304 the fact that most players aren't top tier in more than 1 nation
The F-15A never used AMRAMMS in real life until it was upgraded which happened much later
I played the event a little. It was to be honest quite ass. If you want BVR, you need to decresce player count from 16v16 to atleast 12v12 or 10v10. Its just a missile hell right now. You have to watch like 6 planes while being shot by all 6 of them plus maybe 2 others firing from 15+ km.
No shit. Adding more powerful missiles won't fix the shitshow that is top tier.
Just another reason for me to stick to top tier sim. Top tier ARB has been a clusterfuck and will get worse with this
Hey, its me at 9:00, good fight but I suck at dogfighting lol. Btw, I notched that second MICA but it was super clutch.
I agree with everything you have said. I would like to see 1v1s all the way up to 5s. Where you can fight with a squadron or join randoms. Those would be so much more exciting to try.
I am pretty sure they added the MICA-EM so that they could have another fox-3 that is native to france, if you notice, all fox-3s are different from each other so I am pretty sure this is purely for testing on what they need to do to get the game ready to add them in june, not for balancing in the next update.
Been having success in F16C with AMRAAM by climbing to 20-30K feet, waiting till 20 miles to fire TWS shots, dive and chaff down to the deck and go cold.
Gets 2 to 3 kills everytime.
Go land and reload.
In reality, in a BVR combat scenario you will have aircraft at high and low altitude. This is done as you pointed out in your video to get in the RWR blind spot of your enemy. The aircraft down low would also have the secondary job of protecting their friends up high from enemy aircraft doing the same. Remember Air to Air combat is 3 dimensional, so be aware of your above and below flanks as well.
As a side note I fly DCS, and they have made BVR combat to the closest it can be to reality. I believe that War Thunder will never be able to get to the same level of realism because that is not what people want from War Thunder. The vast majority of the player base want a fast pace combat arcade game similar to Ace Combat but with a hint of realism. In my opinion if you want to truly understand how air combat is conducted and the theory behind it, DCS is the best way to do it.
@@nickbenard6786 "I play DCS" well this isn't DCS and things don't always directly translate. Also, Gaijin models missile seekers WAY better than ED does for DCS, so "BVR combat to the closest it can be to reality" is unequivocally false. It can't be that way if the BVR weapon is modeled/scripted/coded like garbage.
Please for the love of fuck, stop fucking talking about DCS, this is a different god damn game.
@@evangalinsky2499 lol
@@evangalinsky2499 "Model's missile seekers better" War thunder has no idea what they are doing with modern missiles. DCS does a hell of a lot more research (btw without having their community release classified documents) because their goal is to dilever the most authentic combat flight sim. War Thunder is only in it for the money, they make "balance changes" which is the stupidest thing for a game that says they are trying to do the same as DCS. These changes litterly alter a vehicle and its capabilities from its real life counter part.
@@nickbenard6786 the problem is the evidence doesn't support your claims. If that were all true, then ED would model missiles much better than they currently do. Just ask the Grim Reapers, they make DCS mods galore and have fuck tons of videos with them. They (and one of their modding friends CH) have stated multiple times, and I haven't seen ANY disagreement, that the CORE GAME missiles even, in DCS, and specifically their seekers, are incredibly poorly modeled and VERY basic. War Thunder, believe it or not, does a better job of modelling missiles, at least the seekers. It caught me by surprise too and I didn't want to believe it, but it is very much true. Both of these claims are easily verifiable, please do verify them yourself, I really don't want to sit here forever.
I know its tough to hear, but DCS isn't perfect, and its not nearly as complex as you think it is.
Pretty much summed the update well. They did mention on the Fox-3 news post that lower player counts led to more dynamic matches…!!! That’s good, so like at least they’re noticing it
SIM is going to be so much fun now
That's where I've been ever since I got to 12.3-12.7
@@RT42069same
That is what I'm much more excited about, will make a change from F-16C and Gripen AIM-9M meta
Just import air sim layouts as they are into RB, it's really that simple. More bases, actual ground objectives, airfield bombing, multiple airfields to choose from and then just slap on 2 - 3 respawns. This way you can keep 16v16 if you want but the nature of games switches from braindead missile spamming in a massive cluster in the middle of the map to more skilled engagements.
From my experience defending from ARHs as they are on dev right now is kinda balanced. Major skill issue on my part, but there were cases where I felt like ER would’ve hit me but an ARH missed. Great video!
We need a player reduction and we need larger maps for these missiles and BVR combat to really be effective and break the meta.
People will get bored of flying to the battlefield if it isn't a separate mode
You mean EC? 😮
@@christopherbernhardt bigger. EC doesn't really cut it for what these missiles could do if they're implemented right
@@KaptaynAmerykano. Ec would be perfect for when they add fox 3s. They don’t have very long ranges after all. Also, with the team size reduction, ec and 8v8 or 10v10 might be to big of a map and not enough players
Honestly enjoyed my first few matches in the dev server, the strategic game in bvr is great. You seriously need to be aware of where you are in the match, the go left meta is still and probably will always be there. Stay above allies to avoid ground huggers and slap arms at anything high till they are dead, then worry about the ground huggers. By that point you have top control and, if below cons, surprise on the rest for fox 2s.
It will be the same as when the tomcat came out, 15 quintillion missiles in the air 3 seconds after takeoff, except you can't out-pull these unlike the phoenixes
mica em seem to be the best one of the arh 50g and strong booster with thrust vector its pretty good
I'm also hoping they correct the multipathing issue a bit. Generally the altitude where that works, at least for more modern missiles, is very, very close to the ground, like uncomfortably close.
I'm also curious to see how the ER holds up in this new meta, considering that it's still technically kinetically superior to any of the early active missiles.
As alternative suggestion to 10v10 we still have large sim maps in ARB at high BRs. You will have enough time to plan your actions and get a good position, just like with 5.3-6.3.
I really hope nobody here buys a damn $75+ premium plane, especially one that's just going to be food for everything else at 12.0+...... Please don't waste your money on the F-20.
i will buy it twice just for u❤️❤️
🤨
From playing a fair amount of DCS you learn that you have launch windows that are displayed by different symbols on the HUD. These symbols represent launch parameters ex. the Eagle has 5 or 6 different symbols based on if the target is flying to or from, maneuvering etc. In most cases you typically launch your Fox-3’s within a third of there max range to ensure a high probability kill. Unsure if gajin will add anything similar to this or not.
Not sure about US planes but in the MiG-29 for instance the HUD in the cockpit has an indicator for missile launch windows.
Ay carumba
As defyn said its gonna be basically the same because multi pathing but 16v16 with this is gonna be havoc
Given the missiles placements and the current loadouts, we could probably put 4 magics 2 on the wings and 4 MICA EM under the body, now that's a scary thought
Or just 8 MICA missiles since that is literally possible
@@moery2435I hope they give the MICA IR, making it work like an R27/Aim7F that can reacquire locks after; would be way better than the shit Magic 2s we get now
@@Northern00 cope, Magic 2's aren't even that bad.
@@evangalinsky2499they’re the worst of all the top tier IRCCM missiles (R-73, AIM-9M, AAM-3, etc.) so yeah, they deserve to be buffed or replaced with something more competitive? Duh
@@Northern00 it being the worst of those still doesn't mean it's a bad missile. Compared to those sure, but the Magic 2 is still plenty good. Git gud, skill issue. It doesn't NEED to be buffed or replaced, you just WANT that. Big difference. Eventually yes, but for now it's fine. And once that replacement does come it's going to be one of the best IR missiles for the rest of the game's life.
Find something else to whine about.
i usually bring 4 54s on the tomcat, and in general i get usually atleast one, sometimes 3, it's been a while since a got a 4kill, but still hilarious how ppl can get hit by them even with the RWR blaring in their ears
suprising isnt it? I usually bring 4-6 depending on map and 20 minutes fuel, Easy 1-4 kills
There is no RWR blaring in their ears, you dont get an RWR warning from AIM-54's
that's where you're wrong kiddo, russians might not, but most western planes have a "msl" indicator on the RWR and its direction.@@moery2435
@@moery2435 You do, but by the time you get them they're within 10km so you're screwed.
You are one of my favorite if not my favorite war thunder creators
I hope they are added this update and I would like to see some 4v4, 6v6 and 8v8 games.
To be fair a real active radar missile BVR fight eventually drives down to the deck as ranges get closer to MAR.
Also about testing various things. Is it hard to get a replay of fights you analysed? Especially with newly introduced tacview.
the r-darter is broken at long ranges, as in it doesn't work. After coming off the rail it lofts wayy to hard sending itself to space and then dives down when is has no energy left
As a US main I would have been ok if they added the next gen flanker that can carry R-77 and add the other PL series ARH platforms as well as the ARH variant of the PL-11 for the Chinese that way they have at least more than a singular jet with ARH vs the US, IT, GB, and Japan with more than 1
Oh yea I guess China has 2
That fits into "heavy and light fighter pair" concept well
I bought the sakeen in order to play the barrak. I dont think you need a certain rank just a vehicle from that nation.
We need to have more airfields to spawn from!!!!.
I am wondering how they are gonna balance the missles between eachother. Like pointed out in the video, the MICA is way stronger irl them the aim120A or R77.
Imho give the US the aim120B, russia the r77 and start off with that.
Then later on upgrade to the aim120C5, r77-1 and add stuff like the MICA.
And after a while add stuff like the aim120D/C7, R37 and stuff like the METEOR.
It wouldnt be the perfect way to do it. But just giving 1 country the best missle from the start wont work either
We ever gonna get MADDOG functionality where we can lob them off with the radar completely off and they instantly pitbull (vtol vr for demonstration)
"its simply not possible" also me getting 30km shots at high alt
They would probably work wonders in Air SB 😭😭 honestly. I just hope they don't get changed too much and end up being another version of the Aim 7m or R-27R Missle. Because usually when they change something for one game mode, they change it for all modes and then we (Air SB mains) end up pulling the short end of the stick 🫠🫠
You think the F-20 Tigershark with get AMRAAMs? It mounted them IRL
Fun fact: when the f16c came out the description on war thunder wiki said that the F16 could carry AIM 120 AMRAAM
I’ve had a couple of games when it was 10 v 10.
It’s very easy to play when you understand the MAR and launching your weapons within NEZ.
Most war thunder players lack BVR understanding, meaning you easily dictate the fight.
The sparrow has a longer burn time then these new missles, while the ER has more range then the fox 3, the difference is the older missles don’t have a active homing seeker, so I’m keeping the er
While I def want to see if I can get the ER to outrange the aim-120 and get some kills, I don’t think it’s gonna happen.
Whatever shot the aim-120 can just turn around if they feel threatened by the r-27er, but me firing the r-27, I still got to worry about that aim-120 while trying not to loose lock.
While the r-27 could be the better weapon, the aim-120 allows for too good survivability that, if played right, probably wins.
The devs, in their news post about this playtest, said the following: "Aircraft capable can carry up to 8-10 of these missiles each, which in game terms means the possibility to fire up to 100 missiles per side."
Up to 100, assuming the '8-10 missiles each' metric they mentioned is accurate, would indicate that they're calculating this with a 10v10 match size. Just figured I'd point that out.
From my testing (using ARHs in) BVR engagements don't work in WT because of how people play WT. I feel like most people still think in 2D while flying aircraft. Time to head back to DCS for BVR shenanigans, I like WT for the dogfights however
I had great fune when the match was about half over so you can get interesting bvr fights its also fun in dogfights
Same experience. That initial 16 player clash is rough though.
wild idea, but what if we just get 2 airfields nomatter the player count? If they are spaced out enough, it might just work
the missiles are pretty buggy right now it seems that they work better when you hold a solid lock, they also seem to only reach Mach three and then dump all of their speed instead of reaching the advertised Mach four.
After trying it, I've found that it's pretty much just as playable as it has been without the added ARH missiles. Overall I wouldn't be surprised if they remove or keep 16v16, but it would definitely be nice to have smaller player counts for the sake of fun.
nice video bro
Corporate needs you to find the difference between the Vympel R77 and the R27ER
Russian mains: They're the same missile.
0:03 NO NOOOOOO
AMONG US
That's exactly how we pronounce Derby
you dont need a specific rank i used britian with absolute no progress in the tech tree
Finally, France gets something competitive.
They gon make it a longer matraD because 90% of the players are gonna complain. I do not prophesize the future, I recount the past.
@@evanbeers1644shhhh let me dream for like 4 days that we’ll get 8x MICA IR/EM on the M2K-5F and be a powerhouse nation for a patch before it gets nerfed.
AMRAAM's were there before too yk... Pheonix missiles and all.
MICA: call an ambulance!! .... But not for me
finally new missiles for my mirage 2000 5f
The missiles should already in game should use their fins to aggressively angle towards the aircraft. Even when the motor has burnt out. The missile is doing whatever it can to try and get close enough to the target...Not lazilly drifting through the air.
just make the map 4-5 times larger, force spawns at 4-8 airbases, max 4 players per base to not cuck squad players, the rest randomly assigned.
You just described dcs xD
Good idea
I notice a few more things:
The F-16C, somehow, can supercruse
I really don’t know how much weight the mirage 2000-5F can take, but if the loudout allows it, i think it will be able to carry the 4 MICAS and 4 magic 2s (i will grind the Mirage if that is the case lol), also idk how Gaijin will make space for the MICAs since there is not available space (rn at least) for more secondary wepons
And finally, i dont think that the R-77 is going to become a good pick, for any Russian fighter, i know i know Its just a test rn, BUT, the acceleration is, at least for now, not better than the R-27ER, let alone the fact that the ER still gonna have the DataLink and, if Gaijin models the R-77 in the right way, will reamain with mach 4 acceleration, so… idk, i really dont see the R-77 like a game braker, at least not in the MiG-29SMT, we will see if they add a new Su-27 in the summer
Overall, Its a fun event in the dev server
0:04 new imposter game mode confirmed?
how would i play this game mode on console or is the dev server pc only
I didn't need to have the correct rank vehicle for each nation. Only have top tier for germany and US, but was still able to play the event with all available nations.
"If you enjoy larping BVR"... bruh... this is what the top tier should be. Not shitting on you or the devs, it's just a natural direction. These missiles look shit and the 16v16 doesn't match that game style. One boycott was not enough imo
Is it out now or is it on dev serve tournaments?
At least I have a reason to get my fav jet MiG29S now😁
Can you please help me with the r-77 in my experience at long range it always misses even at 10KM it still misses what am I doing wrong? I have TWS HDN, launching from 8-30 KM holding lock for 30-45 seconds and then it misses. What am I doing wrong.
I genuinely enjoy 16 v 16 but that's also cuz it feels like I'm stuck into a WWIII/Cold War gone hot fighter jet scenario
Wouldn't Mica get the semi-stealth capability if modeled correctly? As in they are designed not to warn the target at all are they not?
The mica em is juste a fox 3 like the amraam or the 77, but the mica ir is a fox2 who can be fire like a fox3
*Speaking as a Falcon BMS player here, zero experience with WT*
The MICA should indeed be pretty OP in what you consider the current meta (long WVR engagements), as it is a decent BVR missile and a decent dogfight missile at the same time (would be interesting to see how it compares to the AIM-9M). With the "real" BVR meta, I think it would sit at a slight disadvantage due to not having quite the range of the AMRAAM.
I think what needs to happen is a limit of 2 Active homing missiles per plane... We want to avoid the spam...
Sounds like it is spamraam time
16v16 really takes away many of the more skill and mechanics based attributes of these missiles. Since there are... **checks notes...** potentially 192 Fox-3's in a lobby, it just becomes "Keep dodging and pray" instead of carefully positioning yourself, using every single one of your munitions. 10v10 or 8v8 would allow for allot more technical gameplay instead of just spamming and seeing what you hit.
pitbull timer when gaijin
Personally I feel like they should increase premade squad size to 6 and add 6v6 matches in top tier air. 8v8 is good, but I feel a 6v6 would be a lot more manageable and make your team feel more like a tight unit.
Is the f15c in the update?
The missile knows where it is,
Do you have any stat card links for all the missles?
Missile stat cards aren’t very telling, I wouldn’t be too anxious for them. Lot of info left out or isn’t explained which can be very misleading
These missiles in the current version are best used at sub 30km ranges, my question is why Japan, Italy and Germany don’t get to participate, even though they have planes that can and do hold Fox 3 missiles
is it in the event tab i cant find
Fox 3 in this game is a pure monkey's triumph.
9:00 yeah if you shot a mica it would have 100% hit. The combination of hmd and thrust vectoring micas is nuts. Makes it a lot of fun for close range engagements
Also from my experience m2k beats f16c 80% in a straight up guns dogfight
I am curious how they will manage in normal sim
I think we may have disagreed on many points in the past, but you sir are spot on!
16 v 16 is absolutely ridiculous for top tier BVR fighting, 5 v 5 would be cool but I think anything more than 7v7 is just going to be a boring clusterF.
I certainly hope Gaijin will add an RB mode with less players, or just reduce the current playercount significantly.
Yeah they all have really short burn time. I'd rather use a Sparrow or the R-27 for long range BVR. Were they shined was the sub 25KM range.
The AIM-120A say AIM-120B on the model... cmon gaijin.
They may as well be the same missile. There’s no performance difference, only an electronic logistical difference
0:03 just gave me ptsd
i'm fed up with the low altitude meta
Will the mirage 2000-cs4 get the mica?
Only on the -5
R-Darter FTW
I think I'd like WT air combat more at high tiers if radar missiles could actually hit stuff low to the ground like irl so climbing was viable/forced. Just uptier everything with radar missiles on/above AIM-7E2 tier by 0.7, and push up max BR by 1.3-2.
DCS is harder to play than WT but Growling Sidewinder server in the JF-17 is preferable to top tier air. Big bonus is DCS even with 10 AMRAAM Hornets is less spammy.
9.0 and below air in WT is "fine" though.
that would just be cancer irrccm missiles and radar missiles that cant be evaded